Well… so much for the wingnuts’ predicted backlash over the contested gubernatorial election:
King County Executive: Ron Sims (D) 54.35% David Irons (R) 40.80% Initiative 912 Yes 47.18% No 52.82%
This might have been the first election in Washington state history in which the blogosphere had a measurable impact on the results, and I think it is fair to say on behalf of my fellow progressive bloggers, that… we kicked the other guys’ asses!
More gloating in the morning.
Good job America! Great job Washington voters! Fantastic job King County Voters! Now to continue preparing ourselves for 2006 and 2008. All intelligent voters must band together to stop this ‘culture of corruption’
Good morning USA! Today is the first day of the end of rule for the “culture of corruption” in the USA. In 3 more years we will get ‘the Monkey King’ off of our backs and start to rebuild the reputation of our great land. Good job yesterday American voters!!!!!! (ps. maybe we should not complain so much about the torturing of prisoners and the hidden prisons……we can send the current regime to these prisons in a few years and ‘pry’ honest answers from Bush, Cheney and their band of criminals)
My favorite David Irons soundbite came at the end of the night on KIRO, just before he was forced to concede. Irons made some kind of idiotic comment about Logan not having to look very far for Sims’ winning ballots – “he just needs to check his bottom drawer.”
Surely, the conspiracy cult was sent into high gear, and Stephan will be spending the rest of the week trying to sue his way into Logan’s office, so he can follow-up on Irons’ brilliant lead.
How long did these freaks obsess over Rossi’s loss? 10 months?
LiberalRedneck….”How long did these freaks obsess over Rossi’s loss? 10 months?” What makes you think they have stopped? They have nothing better to do with themselves. Their ‘neocon house of cards’ is starting to tumble in DC and this election was only the start of their ongoing problems. RIP GOP
Im thinking we need a few good ‘ol Gregoire recounts, keep counting till the results get better.
Chuck, I am thinking that the USA needs to start experimenting with ‘lobotomies’ again. I nominate YOU for the first patient!
Ron Sims did a good campaign in the last two weeks. At the same time Irons let the wool slip.
And – remembering the close Gregoire election, every leftie pinko metrosexual in King county voted.
King county cemened its hold on he state politic. Red counties are increasingly hostile and irrelevent on statewide elections.
All in all, bods well for Cantwell and Gregoire and Dems in in legislature. Tell Cantwell not to repeat the mistakes in the Gregoire campaign, No excessive time wasting trolling for one more farmer in Benton – Asorin- Yakima. Work I-5 Maria. Your solid and very motivated.
The nut wings are all plotting revenge and making excuses for themselves.
The ballot challenges boomeranged. People were angry – fueled progresive turnout.
Chris Vance is a big looser in all this. Hairbrain does not describe his strategies or his candidates.
Smokers beware. Raise taxes more on cigs.
Onward to the end of the Bush administed criminal conspircy in DC.
Poor Chuck, and he thinks all those hardworking, good citizen liberals are just stupid and wrong – and remember we have money in Washington.
Consider Idaho as a relocation Chuck.
Or Texas where the Klan was active in the recent elections. And their support not repudiated by Republicans.
George@6
Hate to let you in on this but there is more racism going on in the state of Washingon than most states in the union…INCLUDING Texas…
HA HA HA HA !
The right wing turds got what they deserved. I wonder if JohnBoy Carlson will be claiming today (as he was over the last several months) that 912 was a way to send a message to the Governor? HE HE! Yeah boy, there’s a message all right – YOU LOOOSE!
All right wing traitors are hereby ordered to report to Seattle Center today where they will promptly TAKE IT IN THE REAR!
WE WIN! God has spoken. The people FINALLY get it! Big Dem wins across the country bode well for us in future elections as well!
I think what a lot of WA conservatives need to be reminded is: counties don’t vote, people do. More people disliked I-912 than liked it. it’s really very simple.
If Chris Vance is the is the zenith of intellect for the GOP in Washington, I don’t want to call them moronic….but I will
Not to beat a dead horse, but Irons got just about exactly the same percentage of the King County vote as Rossi did. Sims and Gentry got the same percentage as Gregoire did. All the hoopla over Irons and his mom did nothing for the results. Voting Dems outnumber voting Repubs in King County about 60-40, and that’s how it went.
Curtis Love@9
No, it simply proves money can buy an election, same as the gaming initiative that was bought off by indian gambling money….
Irons lost for much of the same reason the Dems lost (and will likely continue to lose) on a national level — he never presented a better alternative to the incumbent. In 2004, Bush’s actions energized the opposition just like Sims’ (in)actions and perceived misdeeds energized his. And, like Kerry, he was vicitm to an organized and vocal smear campaign that consisted of nothing but testimonials and lacked any hard evidence. But the biggest problem for Irons, just like the problem for Kerry, was that he never presented a vision and cohesive agenda besides being the anti-incumbent.
OH CHUCK – TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THE VERY COSMOPOKITIAN AND VERY DIVERSE NEIGHBORHOOD OF KING COUNTY.
YES RACISM IS ALIVE, BUT MORE THAN THE OLD SOUTH. REALLY CHUCK. GET A GRIP.
THERE IS A REASON MOST OF THE BLACK FOLKS WHO LEFT THE KATRINA ZONE ARE NOT GOING BACK.
George @ 5,
You are misreading things a bit when you say the eastern half of the state is becoming irrelevant. According to the accounts I saw the Smoking Ban was winning handily in Eastern Washington where there were fewer pro-smoking advertisements. Additionally, the votes were fairly evenly split on the Roads Initiative prior to King County reporting. The I-5 corridor may have sealed the deal on I-912 but neither of these results indicate that the will of Red Washington was thwarted.
Moving on to Doc Hastings, what can we in the west do to unseat this toady to the NeoCons?
Frank @ 11
But you can see what happens when the GOP either puts up or supports better candidates like Rob McKenna or Sue Rahr.
George@14
It isnt just the blacks that arent going back, it is all the races including the white people. And it isnt racism that is the problem it is because they are dirt poor there and have no reason to go back after finding a potential better lifestyle (and more generous public assistance).
Mark @ 16 – You make a good point. However, I think the AG and Sheriff positions aren’t seen as overly partisan by most voters. That may explain those results. (Or, I could just to be wrong!)
But, IMHO, in overtly county-wide partisan races, where candidates run on their party’s platform (Governor, Senator, County Exec – are there others?), the maximum % a Repub can get in King County is around 40%. We’ll see that again in 2006 with the Senatorial race.
Goldy,
While I-912 was championed by Carlson & others, it was not a clearcut Dem vs. GOP issue. You can argue that the KVI folks put a lot of media time toward the initiative, but the anti-912 media campaign was significant — including a daily anti-912 editorial campaign by the PI. Support by GOP members wasn’t even uniform.
So, when you say you “kicked the other guys’ asses,” you’re really talking about defeating a narrow segment of the opposition party on an issue that was more emotional than grounded in good public policy. Just like GOP candidates in WA and Dems nationally, the I-912 folks campaigned on being “anti” instead of presenting a solid alternative vision.
Congrats to Sims. Congrats on 912.
The smart voters of King County and Washington State have stood up impressively to the knee-jerk reactions of the ultra right wing.
The tide is changing….we are making an investment in our roads and transit.
The tide is changing…right-wing strongholds have begun electing Democratic leaders.
The tide is changing…citizens are fed up with the false, pretentiious self-gloating blathering of the right whether at the national (e.g. cheney, rove, libby, delay, frist) or the state/local (e.g. irons, rossi, KVI) level.
The tide is changing…voter intimidation efforts are met head on for the benefit of all voters.
The saddest thing is the KVIdiots made both sides waste tons of money to make the investment in roads/transit a priority. That’s the price of democracy. Good ideas should triumph…just wish the good ones didn’t need unnecessary, expensive roadblocks thrown out them by radio talk show hosts wanting bigger audiences.
Goodbye KVI….please head to some red state (harder to find these days) where your minority beliefs find some real traction.
Hurray for Washington and its people!
Mark @ 16
True about McKenna — of course they woked hard to ensure his opponent wasn’t Sidran. If Sidran had been the opponent…who knows what the result would have been.
Hastings is as solid as a Democrat is ensconsed in the 7th. He is heir to a pioneer family which came to Pasco at the turn of the century. Politcal bloodline mated with various right wing elements like the Grange and Farm Bureau and Benton County necons.
With Walla Walla and Mormons and old farm R’s his game is solid as granite. He is lazy and dull, and his politics stink. Oh well.
Work on other districts, as well as Cantwell.
Everyone should take a moment to visit chickenhawk central, unsoundpolitics.com. That punk Stef has been reduced to bragging that the repubs won the dogcatcher’s job! HA HE HA! Truly pathetic. How the mighty have fallen. This is a great day!
Mc Kenna is very ambitious – building his resume for the Gov. slot.
And he has plenty of time. Sidran killed his own political future with all that silly stuff as Seattle City atttorney. Dead duck strategy – ahd he still thinks it was all brilliant.
Repeal the Sidran laws might be a good referendum to drive turnout in 06 in Seattle.
I dislike the man and his anti-gay wife.
Sims won big because:
1) Anti-Bush, Anti-Republican sentiment is very strong and has pushed it’s way beyond the LEFTIST PINHEADED CLOWNS.
2) Huge edge in money.
3) Better organized “Get out the Vote” crowd. State Republicans are inept and rudderless. Not enough ground troops. They overuse ADS when they need ground troops.
4) I-912 being on the ballot really helped Sims and the overwhelming support in KingCo for I-912 benefitted Sims who openly supported it and hurt Irons. People living in KingCo have gone totally insane with the traffic gridlock and will do anything to get even a smidgeon of relief.
David Irons did a tremendous job. He focused on issues that ought to be important like the Election Dept., CAO/Property Rights, and wasteful spending. Unfortunately, Property Rights are perceived only an issue by those most immediately affected. CAO only directly fucked a relatively small group of property owners who had plans to develop their property that were taken away.
Thank you to David Irons for forcing some change and drawing attention to worthy issues.
Oh and YES, Goldy’s SHITSQUAD tactics did have some impact. However, that didn’t decide the election by any means. Woman in KingCo vote heavily Democrat…..especially the Lesbians which are the vast majority of woman in Seattle!!!!
I-912 won because of MONEY….pure & simple….that fueled fear and frustration. I-900 passed handily because people do want accountability. Exit Polls overwhelmingly showed that despite I-912’s relatively easy defeat, PEOPLE OVERWHELMINGLY DO NOT BELIEVE WSDOT WILL SPEND THEIR MONEY WISELY. That was amazing….and shows the desperation of commuters. People in other parts of the State were lied to about their projects being impacted by I-912’s passage…..(i.e. ads about the Hood Canal Bridge resulting in I-912 only getting 41% in Jefferson County).
WSDOT will be under a perpetual microscope. ALL the campaign rhetoric will be thrown in their face…..
And so it goes………
Moving on to Doc Hastings, what can we in the west do to unseat this toady to the NeoCons?
Let’s not forget Reichert and McMorris. All are vulnerable and each deserves to be sent packing.
Thomas @ 21 and Frank @ 11
Just out of curiosity, I went back to check the King County results for McKenna in 2004.
Frank, you’re right. Even McKenna only got 46% of the King County vote. Apparently, that extra 5% was enough to win the state.
Mark @ 25
Yup. McKenna good model of republicans that can win — especially with weaker opponents.
Remember, a number of right-thinking republicans voted for and supported the gas tax.
There is hope there for the party..it’s called moderate. Same holds true for the Democrats.
Yes, McKenna may run (and win) Governor. That would be a fine result. He’s a reasonable, smart guy who puts democracy first and political hacking second.
I will be working on Hastings this year. (mccranium.org) So will the local press. He is not as popular as folks think. Tough fight though for sure. But if our numbers on 912 are any indication he might be slipping. But damn did 330 take a big margin over here. Ick. Every doc over here had a pro-330 poster. Not good.
Mc Morris is a stupid neo conservative…. go get ’em.
Reichert is proven political metal – mettle. And his money will run rivers. Seattle dems have been pining for that seat for many cycles to no avail. Lots of fun, but barring major scandal will be very up the hill. Good fight might drive progressive framework on the Eastside.
And he looks so distinguished, fast study, and sorts issues well.
Bigger gov’t won
Indiv rights lost
Ha HA ha ha ha… fucking republifucks lost out big time. You stupid fucks are never going to make washington into a red state.
Fuck you!
In an earlier posting it looked like Stefan Sharansky of uSP was trying to be the ROBERT MUGABE of Provisional Ballot Judges!
First to the people of King County and the State of Washington: You have voted for sanity and common sense and against mindless rage, hatred and fear. Hurrah! Thank you.
I was going to lay into the trolls one by one but thought better of it. As you pop up one by one we’ll remind you of what started here. May you never forget.
The work never ends – on to 2006 and 2008!
fertilizer @ 30
What is your Lefty obsession with “red” and “blue” states?
The goal should not be for WA to be controlled by either party, but to be governed as justly and responsibly as possible. The people should vote for the best candidate, not by party line.
Tell me… Have you ever voted for a Republican?
Thomas @ 26: “There is hope there for the [GOP]… it’s called moderate. Same holds true for the Democrats.”
I couldn’t agree with you more. Too bad the moderate Dems & Republicans don’t split off and form a third “Centrist” party. I’m thinking something more socially progressive, but economically free market with an emphasis on assisting small business (good ol’ American know-how entrepreneurs) over supporting big business and big labor. Fewer but clearer regulations with much stronger enforcement. Belief in a strong defense, but not bellicose. And, finally, a party that believes in neither promoting nor wiping out God.
Gee Mark-
That sounds about like the Clinton-Gore Dems of the 90’s.
Very centerist, VERRY pro-growth…almost like moderate Republicans…with a dash of environmentalism.
I would like to see a Democrat that wants to wipe out God, Mark. :p
Boy – what trash. Now that the
R’s and going back into he sewer – old time liberals and dems are supposed to run to the so called center to make sure of …….blah, blah…….
If only we were all moderate? Read a lot more right wing.
Not this one.
And by the way, Mark, many dems feel the so called center almost killed the Dem party in two elections.
Isn’t it about time time to burn Bibles?
Mark @21,
Don’t get me wrong… I’m not claiming credit for either race. I’m just saying that we in the progressive blogosphere did a much more credible and effective job of influencing this election than our counterparts on the right did.
Part of that was the kind of “mudslinging” that both Stefan and I engaged in. (My mud stuck better than his did.) And part of that was the sort of less visible, relentless media outreach effort that quietly educates the media and informs opinion makers… the sort of elbow grease effort we saw on I-912 from Daniel Kirkdorfer at On the Road to 2008 and Andrew Villeneuve of Washington Defense.
It’s certainly possible that I-912 would have lost and Sims would have won without our efforts… but I think it is perfectly fair to claim to have contributed to the outcome.
Troll @ 42
Nope. As a liberal and progressive I’m against book burning. I don’t beat on a Bible myself. I’d rather beat on the people (figuratively of course) who seek to exploit religion to gain political power and then once they have that power seek to destroy democracy.
from Frank at 13 — “Irons got just about exactly the same percentage of the King County vote as Rossi did. Sims and Gentry got the same percentage as Gregoire did. All the hoopla over Irons and his mom did nothing for the results.”
Your logic is flawed. You ignore the fact that Sims is a lot more unpopular than Gregoire was, so for him to do as well as Gregoire in KC means that Irons was also a lot more unpopular than Rossi. (Which shouldn’t surprise anyone…)
Mark,
I can just as easily say “What is the Righty obsession with “red” and “blue” states?” (or red/blue counties in this state).
Most places are somewhat purple – some are more redish purple and some are more bluish puruple. The hard core partisans try to make everyting black and white (red/blue).
Mark @21, Goldy @43:
Simply put, we worked harder than the other side and never let up on I-912. They took passage for granted and it will likely fail by 6%.
We helped get the information out there. It is evident that the media picked up on our lead. The paid campaigns stayed on the sidelines until they thought there was a glimmer of hope to defeat I-912, and then they did an effective job with a localized targeted campaign. Well done to all who did their part in educating people about the ramifications of the initiative, especially Andrew at NPI who was tireless.
The reason I-912 failed though is not because of King County support, it is because it didn’t have enough support elsewhere.
Meanwhile, let’s not lose sight of the fact there was another big loser last night: Dino Rossi. He chose not to speak against I-912 and will be viewed as being on the wrong side of this issue. Washingtonians what action. They want solutions. The I-912 crowd and Rossi offered no solutions, just more of the same and gridlock.
Where’s Mark the “912 by 15 points” Redneck? I wanna hear his excuse!
I’m happy tho’, it came sooner than I’d thought… The screw is turning, and America has finally really started to wake up.
rujax @ 39
Can’t speak to the Clinton-Gore folks, but you are correct in saying it sounds “moderate Republican with a dash of environmentalism.” We should neither pave the planet nor live in the Stone Age.
Amd is there something wrong with being VERRRY pro-growth?
My advice for the US economy is the same as what I got from my boss when I was a salesman in college: “Even if sales are good, always work on your leads and make sure there is potential business in the hopper.”
We still have http://www.honestelectionsproject.com to fire Dean Logan, as well as Reagan Dunn.
Otherwise, Sims got a… mandate. I said it. Sims got a mandate.
Goldy @ 43
My point was more that the I-912 was less of a 50/50 issue than one with a vocal 10% on either side and a big, undecided middle. Luckily, people decided NOT to “send a message” and sacrifice roads. However, that is not to say that the way the Gas Tax was put together was right. Unfortunately, the public has a short memory and that outrage will be lost by the next election for Legislators (whose vote out of office is the proper way to protest such actions).
Josef @ 49: “Sims got a mandate.”
And it will take the form of him and Logan seeing a movie, having some dinner and making out in the back of Sims’ private limo. [Sorry. Couldn’t resist.] ;)
George @ 41: “And by the way, Mark, many dems feel the so called center almost killed the Dem party in two elections.”
Uuuhhh….so the two Clinton victories running as a centrist and two defeats running further left showed Dems what? When very smart Dems like James Carville are saying run more in the center, why do so many Dems dismiss that?
Mark @ various…it’s been a long while since I’ve posted here, but your entries spurred me to do so…
You sound like a right of center kind of person but still in the reasonable moderate…I think of myself as a left of center kind of person but still in the reasonable moderate…
I would gladly join you in promoting a centrist agenda for either, both or a new third party…I’m sick to death of the highly vocal minorities on both sides feeding the perceived poloraztion…
The NEO-CONs lost nationally, not the Reps…I had always considered myself a Rep until these hard right wing nut zealots got control of the party…but I can in no way support their devisive polarizing agendas or candidates…
So yeah baby…bring back the moderate voices that echo the VAST majority of the nation…let’s put BOTH the fringes back in the corners where they belong…
Once again, King County prevailed in all the important state-wide issues. The rest of the people in Washington may as well not exist.
Sandals @ 40: “I would like to see a Democrat that wants to wipe out God”
How about a whole group of ’em. It is called the ACLU. Which is really too bad because there are some good things they do. Unfortunately, they always err on the side of “no God.” They’re kind of like labor unions — a good idea in theory that got perverted in practice.
Mark@several
Damn, when did you get a sense of humor? I’m actually enjoying reading your posts… The righties on here are supposed to be moronic trolls :p (good job, fun actually discussing stuff!)
Lib@54 If you think that K.County won these things alone, you’re way off base. Things were neck and neck (on things like 912) for most of the night. As much as the lovers of regionalism would hate to admit it, King county was able to tip the balance because Eastern WA was fairly evenly divided on the issues~ Its disheartening that you’d try to ruin something thats basicly a victory for democracy with more partisan, regionalist whining.
Goldy @ 43: “It’s certainly possible that I-912 would have lost and Sims would have won without our efforts… but I think it is perfectly fair to claim to have contributed to the outcome.”
I agree, I think this election marks another high (or low, depending on your POV) point for the ‘blogosphere’, so your claim is more than fair.
I do agree with Mark on 912, as it wasn’t a straight red/blue issue. I, and a number of other R’s I know voted against 912 as we knew that transportation/roads/infrastructure isn’t cheap and the money has to come from somewhere, and as pointed out, there was no alternative presented.
Simply put: we worked harder than the other side and never let up.
I-912 was not an easy initiative to defeat. It was an anti-tax initiative that most people by default would support unless they better understood what it would mean. It had support from many, IMO misguided greens, who thought that it would mean the legislature would focus more on transit issues. We were fighting the issue on multiple fronts.
But we never let up. The other side took it for granted it would pass and they made little effort beyond talk radio, which preached to a constituency that had made up their mind.
People like Andrew should be applauded for their tireless efforts. We were fighting I-912 well before it became in vogue for the papers to write about it. They took their talking points from what we had been writing. The anti-I-912 campaigns didn’t do anything until it started looking like I-912 could fail, and then they added to the fight with a targeted local campaign. But we really did get the ball rolling on this and make it a fight that others picked up on.
Meanwhile the other big loser last night was Dino Rossi who didn’t speak out against I-912 and therefore found himself on the wrong side of what the people decided was the right direction for the state. People want action. They want solutions. I-912 and Rossi’s crowd offered none of that, just more of the same, and gridlock.
I’ll say it again, whatever happened with you Mark, I like it! (unless its fake Mark, in which case shame on me :p)
(more gloating~ I know, horribly rude!)
Was it Puddy that made the Bet with GBS? Did he ever pay up and use his ‘influence’ to get on Carlson’s show to trash Irons? (not that we needed it, but still) Or, was it yet another slimeball lie/escape by a rightie troll?
Enquiring minds want to know!
George @ 41: “many dems feel the so called center almost killed the Dem party in two elections”
The reason they lost was a lack of The Vision Thing. A certain, significant lack of charisma on the Left didn’t help, either.
I thought I was bummed about Irons losing, but I just found out
Sulu is gay. DAMN, life sure has some rough spots.
windie @ 58
I’m the same guy I’ve always been and my posts on issues aren’t inconsistent.
You should not confuse me with “Mark the Redneck” (hard Right), “marks” (moderate Right) or the various “Fake Mark” (hard Left) posters.
I still taunt Roger Rabbit and a few others, but that is mostly in good fun and/or to get under their skin if they’re on some rant. :)
I am in Omaha and have no other source of news. Can someone tell me if the smoking ban passed? TIA.
You have a lot to gloat about today.
As much as it pains me to say it, Congratulations.
Blogs did make a difference in this year’s races – and it is the first time I’ve really seen it happen. Goldy was generally superior and soundpolitics was generally infantile. Bodes well for 2008.
And Jeff Sax lost in Snohomish – proving once again that bigots lose when exposed. Thanks Goldy – for letting people know about Sax resorting to “Gay Endorsed” on Dave Somers’ campaign signs.
Sax wins the prize for the most hateful twisted cheap GOP stunt this year (a very tough honor to earn) – and loses his race. Sax also proved that hate is alive within the wackier ranks GOP (its leadership), who are driving the party of Lincoln into the ground. Lots of Republicans did vote against I-912 – and againsts the antics of people like Sax, Wilbur, Freeman/Carlson and Vance. Dave Irons was simply one of their latest victims because he never really demonstrated to people that he could be different (better) than them.
There would be no CENTER without two x-tremes. If you have x-treme righties and nothing but self-described CENTRISTS, you get a resulting CENTER that is too far right. We of the far right and far left are fully aware of what we’re doing. The mistake of the left of center CENTRISTS is to totally disavow the x-treme left in the interests of “sanity and realism”. That’s what gets them beaten every time. The perception is that you STAND FOR NOTHING and it’s true. You centrists stand for nothing.
yes, the smoking ban passed overwhelmingly.
OMG! Apparently prr wasn’t raised in a GOP dog fighting pit and can actually be gracious. The end times are surely nigh!
Yhat being said lets see if we hear from Puddybud, Mark the Redneck, Mr. Cynical, et al.
Marky Mark @ 21 and all neocon’s:
Simply put, the I-912 initiative was started right after the fiasco in Judge Bridges court room. KVI, did in fact, make this a referendum on the legitimacy of Christine Gregory’s election and her legitimacy to enact legislation. Talk about short memories, or more accurately put, the culture of corruption that are the lies from the right.
As Kirby and Carlson put it, 912 was as state wide initiative to give disenfranchised Rossi supporters an opportunity to prove Rossi should have been elected governor and to show Gov. Gregoire ineffectual by repealing the gas tax. The voters didn’t side with you, again.
Couple this with every major republican candidate or issue being defeated across the nation and the this a watershed showing voter discontent with the republican agenda in general. Whether is was Bush’s support that failed to put a republican in office in VA., or republicans being removed from school board in PA over intelligent design, to union busting and redistricting in CA, there is a growing trend against conservatism.
Bottom line: please keep preaching how well conservatism is working in American politics. Keep up your relentless support of Bush’s leadership, of DeLay’s, Libby’s, Frist’s, Rove’s, and Cheney’s criminal activity. Continue supporting congress’ unmitigated spending, which by the way this republican congress and Bush have just officially borrowed more money from foreign governments than all 42 previous presidents combined!!!
You do that, and we will be guaranteed to pick up seats in the House and Senate in ’06, probably a majority at the very least in the Senate by ’08 and definitely we’ll win the White House in ’08.
But, whatever you do, please don’t change what you’re doing. You’re doning a heck of a job, Marky.
Thanks,
GBS
I think the posts suggesting that Rob McKenna is a voice of moderation and reason within the GOP are conveniently overlooking significant elements of McKenna’s track record.
We’re talking about an AG who had no qualms “surfing the wave” of oodles of out-of-state money from the US Chamber of Commerce to coast into victory. The Chamber is not representing mom n’ pop American business, like the Rotary Club or something. It’s the corporate heavies who want to keep the profit-maximizing machine humming at all costs…..consumer and labor rights be damned. Think the Liability Reform Coalition writ large.
McKenna showed his allegiances in this elecetion by coming out in support of I-330…..which tells me he knows which side his bread is buttered on, and will serve the masters regardless of whether such a call is good for ordinary citizens….or even a politically astute position, given the tenor of the electorate. This is not statesmanlike, Dan Evans behavior. Smells more like Tom DeLay.
Plus, there’s the abortion thing. McKenna had better hope that the Supreme Court doesn’t overturn Roe and punt the issue back on the states. Does anyone really believe Washington would EVER elect a pro-life governor if the state legislature had the final say on reproductive rights?
And as for Irons…..what can one say? The election was a referendum on Irons’ flaws, not for Sims’ inherent strengths. If today’s GOP wants to force feed the electorate “Mom and apple pie” candidates, they should at least pick ones who haven’t clocked Mom in the piehole with the rolling pin…..
fire_one:
Well, I’ll see if this gets by the filter:
here is a link to the SoS’ measure election results…
Puddybud,
I listened to KVI **yuck** no word from you about David Irons not taking the LIE DETECTOR TEST.
You didn’t uphold your end of our bet or your word.
Shame on you.
PacMan, now we know what a keeping your word means something to a Liberal, and, well, conservatives, not so much. Promises made, promises broken, the culture of corruption that is conservatisim rolls on.
Apache in a Fog @ 66
The extreme Left and extreme Right are both whack jobs. Clinton won because he was more Centrist than Left. Gore and Kerry lost because — and I’ll repeat this again — they lacked The Vision Thing (or were unable to articulate it). Same applies for the other Dem candidates who merely run as “anti-GOP.”
Centrists stand for nothing?? On the contrary! Moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats stand for all kinds of things — especialy PROGRESS, a term the Far Left attempts to steal with the “progressive” name. Agreement on mutual goals doesn’t mean you don’t stand for anything. It means that you’ve sat down and found the things to DO agree upon and move forward on those.
Your attitude is also what makes Far Lefties look like brainless robots and Far Righties as crusading zealots. The world is not black and white. Just because one doesn’t toe your precise party line, doesn’t mean they are without conviction.
Mark:
Yer right I guess… We all have “Too many Marks” disease here on HA.
Man its funny, I’m positively giddy! This election went SO much better than I thought it would!
Well ‘cept for 901, say g’bye to the entertainment scene!
BullMikey @ 69
A good part of McKenna’s success with Dems was that there were folks on the Left — especially those who worked with her — who thought Senn was a nutjob.
As for the Roe issue, McKenna has nothing to worry about. Washington already has the appropriate law in place (RCW 9.02).
C’mon!! FilterHell for me again??!! OK… try again…
Mikey @ 69
Part of McKenna’s win was that some on the Left — esp. those who worked with her — thought Senn was a nutjob.
As for Roe, McKenna has no worries. WA already has RCW 9.02 in place.
Is Senn a filer word??
Hmmm… One last time…
Mikey @ 69
Rob’s win was partially because some Lefties thought his challenger was a nutjob (esp. former staffers of hers).
Roe is a non-issue for Rob because WA already has RCW 9.02.
Is Roe a filter word?
Grrr!!! OK… last try…
guy @ 69
Lots of Lefties (esp. former staffers) didn’t like Senn because she was crazy.
Roe is a non-issue for Rob because of RCW 9.02.
Aha! Is the filter word nutjob?
Yesss!!! The filter word is “nutj0b!”
Comment by Daniel K— 11/9/05 @ 8:57 am
Thanks for admitting MSM bias.
Yup, Rossi was coy w/ his support for 912 that’s for sure.
well that explains alot… I use that particular word, probably way too much :p
Mark @48-
Good pro-economic growth policies are GOOD…I’ve never said they weren’t. This current obsession with “corporate growth” is KILLING this economy.
Jon @ 56-
Excuse me…the Dems ran a REALLY SHITTY Republican-Lite campaign the last two election cycles and got played by the GOP. Dems have got to go back to being Democrats. Strong, fair foriegn policy. Strong on defense and support of the military (that’s Clinton’s Army Rumsfeld is fucking up BTW). Verrrry strong in support of working people…working families and their paychecks, their health benefits, their kids education and their pensions. THOSE are traditional Democratic values. That’s what we need to get back to.
And another asinine comment from D. Irons (hopefully we won’t be hearing from him again for a longgg time):
Tuesday night, Irons continued making sarcastic references to the elections problems. “Let’s see if Mr. Logan can get it right this time. After all, we’re still waiting for him to find the other 390 ballots [from the September primary]. … I suggested the lower right-hand drawer in his office,” Irons told supporters at Bellevue’s Doubletree Hotel. (from the Times)
But at least Irons did concede, which I don’t think Rossi ever did.
OK,
So now that 912 was defeated, when can we get started on spending some of that revenue on general purpose lanes to ease congestion? And there better not be any more rock slides on your watch.
rujax @ 79
I agree and disagree with the second part of your comments. The Dems did run a poor campaigns, but it wasn’t because it was “Republican Lite.” It was because they ran as “not” and “anti.” If one party is floundering and the other doesn’t present a proactive alternative, the populace simply says, “a pox on both their houses.”
You get another guy like Clinton (but who can keep it in his pants) and the GOP will have a fight on their hands.
The Left also deludes itself into believing that every victory is some sign of a major shift. For example, even the MSM talks about how the Dems “won” two governorships. The truth is that they “retained” those offices.
Senn was a bad piece of work. Sidran would have whipped McKenna. But even a lot of D’s like myself voted for McKenna because Senn was so bad. However, McKenna now has a statewide platform to position himself for a run at governor.
rujax @ 79: “working families and their paychecks, their health benefits, their kids education and their pensions”
Education isn’t strictly a Left issue. However, the issue of paychecks, benefits and pensions strictly relates to Big Labor. And Big Labor and Big Business aren’t what generate the employment increases in this country.
Tell me… which is more important (and you have to choose one over the other): putting the unemployed to work or improving the wages & benefits of a fraction of those already employed?
Me @ 85
I’m not saying small business employees don’t care about paychecks or benefits, but they’re much more likely to work in a meritocracy where their income and benefits is more closely tied to the performance of their job, thus giving them more control over those issues than a union worker would have. Small business employees are more likely to have 401(k) plans as opposed to traditional pensions like Big Business/Big Labor.
What??!! More filtering… Try again.
Me @ 85
To clarify: Small busines employees are also concerned with paychecks, etc., but they’re more likely to work in a meritocracy and have more control over said income/benefits than a union member who gets what their bosses negotiated. The configuration of retirement for small biz employees is also usually more under their individual control.
Mark is reasonable. Centrists should rule.
McKenna is reasonable and moderate…and he has some strong views.
Now…to the future. Let’s get centrists back in charge of congress and the white house….
All of Eastern Washington is not the same, and all voters over here are not the same, either. I will never understand this “angry conservative Eastern counties” stuff. Most EW counties end up conservative if you look only at who/what won and who lost. But, the percentages on those counts will show we aren’t “all red” over here. As was previously said, it really looks closer to “purple” more than some of the folks would like you to believe.
Thanks Mark-
On the “Last Minute Endorsements” thread I replied to you..it was rather long so it got hung up in the filter…where I laid out my opinion on this.
The short answer is like this…What good does it do someone to have a job, if what they earn at that job can’t pay the bills. I’m always amused at those who think a $7.00/hr ($14,000/yr) job is gonna get anybody anywhere. Yet that is what Corporate America seems to want. We can’t be a part of this “Race to the Bottom”. We have got to figure out how to get our middle class back. I don’t apologize for being a strong union advocate. Labor Unions are NOT just another faceless bureaucracy…the labor Movement is the face of every worker who punches that time clock.
Sorry for not taking the bait but that’s NOT a way to frame that debate.
To me the more important question is HOW are we going to create jobs AND increase the American Worker’s standard of living.
Got an answer hung up, Mark. It’s coming…I hope.
Josef wrote, “Thanks for admitting MSM bias.”
There you go again. So you don’t think a paper should make endorsements I guess.
You’re also dismissing the fact that while they may have picked up on the issues we were talking about, also talking about them doesn’t in itself mean they are taking a position. A lot of media coverage simply presented facts, and that’s what the media should be doing.
Unfortunately for I-912 proponents the facts were not in their favor.
Mark wrote, “The Left also deludes itself into believing that every victory is some sign of a major shift. For example, even the MSM talks about how the Dems “won†two governorships. The truth is that they “retained†those offices.”
Very true, but each election is a new battle, and the Dems won both of those new battles.
Well, what can I say?
The County Executive race was a big disappointment. But David Irons certainly wasn’t the strongest candidate. Either Kathy Lambert or Jane Hague would have been MUCH stronger. Or someone like Bill Finkbeiner. Perhaps the GOP figured they couldn’t win this anyway, and put Irons up as a sacrificial lamb. I would HATE to think that Irons was selected by the GOP king-makers over a willing candidate that would have been much stronger.
As for the I-912 measure, that was a close call even in my book (really) as to how to vote. My biggest issue wasn’t the idea of spending money on road projects, but how much of the money was being spent (especially on the needlessly expensive Alaskan Way viaduct replacement). The vote still shows that hundreds of thousands of voters can be energized to sign volunteer petitions, and that 47% or so of the people had strong enough reservations about this tax to vote YES.
While the King County GOP had a good point on the mailbox registration challenges (or at least on 80% or so of the 1855 registrations complained about), the manner in which it was handled was a public relations disaster. They should have started this MANY MONTHS AGO. First, demand KC Elections identify mailbox addresses and do something about it. Second, when KC Elections does nothing, publicize this fact. Third, make up a pretty damn accurate list of people, and do some fact checking. Fourth, send friendly letters to these folks asking them to re-register at a proper address. Fifth, give this list to KC Elections and demand they at least send friendly official letters. Sixth, when KC Elections does nothing, make official challenges (after doing further fact-checking) of the people who haven’t corrected their addresses. Preferably get to Step 6 before the primary election even, and with time for people to either correct their address before the primary, or at least by the general election.
In any event, the GOP and conservatives in King County are far from dead. Republican John Creighton built a broad coalition and handily defeated Democrat Lawrence Molloy in the non-partisan Port of Seattle position 1 race. Creighton and Molloy were each backed by their respective county party organizations.
The official GOP endorsed candidate, Lloyd Hara, won Port of Seattle position 3 handily. Of course, Hara is a Democrat and was officially endorsed by the King County Democrats as well. Rich Berkowitz, who was defeated, was supported by the creme of Democrat liberals and by organized labor. And Berkowitz wasn’t a total pushover, since he had a lot of business backing and some newspaper support (including Seattle P-I and King County Journal).
The Pat Davis – Jack Jolley race for Port of Seattle position 4 has to be a BIG DISAPPOINTMENT FOR THE BLOGOSPHERE. (It is still close, but I don’t see Jolley overcoming the 10,000 vote gap — Davis lead the early absentees by 10,000 voters and they split the poll vote almost equally.)
Jolley had almost universal backing on the blogosphere — from thinking computer geeks of every stripe, liberal, conservative, and otherwise. As well as backing of thinking activists across the spectrum in other areas — The Stranger, John Carlson, Sierra Club, Eat The State, Kirby Wilbur, Seattle Weekly. And sadly, he still (apparently) lost.
Ironically, while Pat Davis isn’t someone who principled Republicans (or principled Democrats for that matter) should have backed, her apparent victory does show that the GOP still carries substantial weight in King County.
The King County Democrats officially backed Jolley, while the King County GOP took no position in that race. So the King County GOP is two for two in port races (Creighton and Hara won) and the King County Democrats only one for three (Hara won, Molloy and Jolley lost).
In addition, Davis managed to start off with some heavyweight GOP endorsements right off the bat — Rob McKenna, Slade Gorton, Dan Evans, Jane Hague, etc. David Irons also supported Davis, although his endorsement wasn’t publicized (just like Jolley didn’t publicize his endorsement by Ron Sims).
So the less informed GOP voters (i.e. people who mostly looked at the voter’s pamphlet and mailing pieces) probably thought that Davis was the person most Republicans were backing, and that Jolley was the Democrat (or more Democrat leaning) candidate. It is unfortunate that many GOP voters thought that way, but Davis did apparently win the election.
SELL THE HORSE!!!
Hey trolls — you can sell Old Paint to the glue factory — the anti-roads initiative lost!!!
But if you’re really determined to live in the 19th century, call the Amish recruiter and ask if they have any openings.
@3
What did I say??? Huh??? I posted last night not to expect a graceful concession speech from Irons — he would blame his loss on Logan! What do you expect from a mother beater?
@6
What you are talkinga about? Cheesy Chuckie was lobotomized back in the fifties.
Lefties – enjoy your day of gloating! The Peoples Republic of Seattle has ensured yet another “progressive” statewide victory. Be proud of the result.
@11
Eastern Washington, eastern Washington … the Republiturds don’t get it!! Only one-fifth of the state’s voters live in eastern Washington, and a third of those are Democrats! The eastern Wash. Republiturds have lots of acres, but acres don’t vote!! OF COURSE the Puget Sound counties run this state — they have two-thirds of the population!
@13
Yep, the election results prove that 40% of King County voters are dumber than a box of rocks.
Pope @92 So is it a fair summary to say that Republicans can be succesful if they run a stealth campaign and hide their real views ala Rossi or run in non-partisan races where they don’t have to have the stigma an ‘R’ next to your name carries?
Good Job Goldy! Irons’ looked several times last night that he was on the verge of blowing his top. I was kind of hoping for a on camera blow up of some sort. Hopefully a reminder that character still counts and I’m not talking about what goes on between two consenting adults. Shame on Vance and company for their stupid stunt. Seems that Vance needs to be devoting much more time and effort to vetting his own candidates. It was the Republican’s own sloppiness and arrogance that lost them the seat. Thank God people are starting to think prior to swallowing their fucking kool aide! Too bad this wasn’t one year ago!
John McDonald, “So now that 912 was defeated, when can we get started on spending some of that revenue on general purpose lanes to ease congestion? And there better not be any more rock slides on your watch.”
Two points:
– Were I at the WSDOT I’d place all the projects in the counties that voted for I-912 well down the list of priorities. They showed they didn’t want this roadwork (“reluctant ‘yes'” voting or not). So do the work where people supported the transportation plan first.
– Perhaps one day you’ll accept that there is such a concept as freezing and thawing within rock structures that produce cracks and cause rock slides. They are not acts of God or the results of political conspiracies.
@13
Considering that Gregoire won by 133 votes, she needed the votes she got from Democrats in eastern Washington’s smallest county. It would be a mistake for Democrats to ignore their friends in eastern Washington — a big mistake. Especially given that 40% of King County’s voters are dumber than a box of rocks.
Cheesy Chuckie @14
If money can buy an election, why did the doctors lose?
@96,
We are proud of the result, Dick!
Richard Pope wrote, “In any event, the GOP and conservatives in King County are far from dead. Republican John Creighton built a broad coalition and handily defeated Democrat Lawrence Molloy in the non-partisan Port of Seattle position 1 race. Creighton and Molloy were each backed by their respective county party organizations.”
Someone please tell me what is non-partisan about a race that pits Republicans against Democrats?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9973228/
More good news. Voters in PA threw out a bunch of theocratic right wingers and replaced them with Dems when they started selling that “intelligent design” lie!
@18
If you’re Republicans can only win by running moderate candidates, the GOP is in big trouble nationally.
Dumb Bunny @ 97
Can’t say we’ve missed you all morning. The adults were having a nice discussion. Still on the ol’ guvmint-worker-show-up-whenever-because-you-can’t-get-fired schedule, huh?
McKenna is proof that you don’t have to carry King County to win. You just need a big enough piece of it. He had 45% in KingCo and strong support everywhere else. He could have given up a few more points in KingCo and still won.
Dumb Bunny @ 106
You put up the right moderate guy or gal and there are plenty of crossover votes to be had — even in WA.
Kudos to Dover, PA folks on the creation call….I was worried about the sanity of folks out there…
@21
Sorry, Mark, but I-912 was the anti-Gregoire initiative, and the sore loser faction got their asses kicked. Carlson promoted it as a way of taking revenge on the Democrats for Rossi’s loss, and Carlson got his balls handed to him last night.
Voter reaction is not hard to figure out. The voters looked at themselves sitting in stalled traffic, then looked at Brett Bader’s antics, and went “hmmmmmmmmmm … “
@25
Perhaps the biggest news out of this entire election is that Stefan can’t hold a job. Not enough a two-day-a-year poll worker temp job! Makes you wonder how the guy makes the mortgage on an $800,000 house, doesn’t it? Does he have Russian Mob connections, I wonder.
@33
Bigger government and less individual rights won (in a manner of speaking) in 2000 and 2004, too, but my confidence is growing that reason will prevail and the Democrats will sweep nationally in 2006 and 2008.
Silly Rabbit @ 110
Sorry, Mark?? I-912 was a big part anti-tax and a big part anti-Legislature for going against I-601 (“the will of the people”). Yes, there may have been anti-Gregoire rhetoric, but that was only part of the equation.
And, as I said before, this was NOT a 50/50 issue split down party lines. It was 10% on either end trying to influence a broad middle.
I just wish we could use ‘winger logic and claim that Monorail is still alive because it’s won 4 out of 5 elections. Alas…
Wingnut @ 42
You guys need to retool your message. That one — liberals are Godless atheists — doesn’t sell. Perhaps the reason it doesn’t smell is because it’s bullshit, and bullshit does smell, and the voters are finally going “whew!!” when they smell bullshit.
And kudos to the leglisature for taking action to provide real government. With the defeat of I-912, it shows that good government can prevail.
Josef the Dinolackey @49
To those of you who viewed the King County Executive race as a referendum on Dean Logan’s job — Dean won, you lost. He keeps his job, while you go sulk.
BTW Josef — I heard Zits is so dejected she’s going to quit dating for the next 12 months — so you’ll have to spend a whole year whacking off to a photo taped above your commode.
@60
The Dems lost because of scurrilous lies told about their candidates by the Right Wing Lie Machine, you stupid fuck.
@62
Have you been taunting me, Mark? Gee, I didn’t notice. Sorry for not paying any attention to you, but I’ve been busy with serious stuff.
@63
The smoking ban passed by a huge margin.
They’ll be no real progressive reform or any real progress for the working-man until corporations lose their illegitimate 14th amendment rights. Every state constitution in the union says that their power derives from “the people” not “the legal persons. I’ll leave it at that for now…
@64
Gee, prr, that’s statesmanlike of you. I would never have imagined you had it in you.
It tells you something about how bad the GOP is, when prr makes a more graceful concession than their candidate for King County Executive does.
NAME THE 3 MOST IRRELEVANT PRIVATE CITIZENS IN WASHINGTON CONTEST
Roger Rabbit votes for:
1. Dino Rossi
2. David Irons Jr.
3. Mr. Cynical-Irrelevant
Just wondering how the Rabid Lefties will spin this headline from one of their flagship newspapers, the Village Voice:
CENTRIST Democrats Notch Big Win
http://www.villagevoice.com/ne.....890,2.html
Apparently, moderates DO win. Fringies and those with the charisma of Jell-O lose. (Except in Baghdad Jim’s
compoundfunny farmdistrict)Dumb Bunny @ 116
You mean the one that is the mirror of the Left Wing Lie Machine — Spy vs. Spy style?
Wabbit @ 122
You placed Mr. Cynical ahead of myself? I am disappointed.
Probably a strong case can be made for placing me ahead of Dino Rossi and David Irons Jr. After all, I have received more votes in unsuccessful elections (if you take the number cast for me in every primary and general in which I was on the ballot) than any other individual in the history of the State of Washington — and far more than either Dino Rossi and David Irons Jr in their unsuccessful elections.
If that doesn’t make me IRRELEVANT, then what does?
And David Irons Jr isn’t a private citizen just yet either. His term on the King County Council expires on December 31, 2005.
@82
All the gas tax dollars are earmarked, John. Besides, you can’t build your way out of traffic congestion. More freeway lanes = more sprawl. “If you build it, they will come.”
If you want congestion relief, $5 a gallon gas would accomplish what no amount of concrete pouring ever would. And gas WILL cost $5 a gallon, even if the gas tax is never raised again, because the world is running out of oil — very quickly.
If you divide current oil consumption into known reserves, the last drop of recoverable oil will be gone in 2034, slightly less than 30 years from now — but the oil will last that long ONLY if there is NO population growth, economic growth, or increase in consumption.
@83
“You get another guy like Clinton (but who can keep it in his pants) and the GOP will have a fight on their hands.
Would this work for you?
“You get a gal like Clinton and the GOP will have a fight on their hands.”
@86
Mark, you’ve got it backwards. The reason workers in big corporations, government, schools, etc. need strong unions is precisely because those organizations AREN’T meritocracies.
So, how long until the minnow and his lackeys start calling for the head of Chris Vance? After all, he has run the party into the ground, has had a number of events that proved that the GOP is worse at elections than the Dems (Higher error rate at the King County GOP caucus, Higher error rate in their list of “felons,” Higher error rate in their list of “wrong address” voters).
I hope they keep him forever, since that would seem to insure that the libertarians end up being the second party in Washington, but the minnow and his lackeys will want blood sooner than later, and Vance is the only person they have any control over.
Rabbit @ 127: “You get a gal like Clinton and the GOP will have a fight on their hands.”
That is a possiblity. However, the Dems have always shown a willingness to eat their young (see: Crawford Cindy’s attacks on Hillary). She is also vulnerable to Middle America Dems who wouldn’t vote for a woman President. Her actions at the Rose Law Firm will come back under scrutiny, as will the failure of her health plan.
A lot wwould depend on Hillary’s running mate and who the GOP nominates. Giuliani, McCain or a double-bill (albeit not likely) would likely beat her soundly, but take a few bruises in the process.
Hey Mark-
Check out #98. Thx.
@92
“My biggest issue wasn’t the idea of spending money on road projects, but how much of the money was being spent (especially on the needlessly expensive Alaskan Way viaduct replacement).”
Richard, this quote, in and of itself, shows why you lack the analytical skills to be a Port Commissioner, or to be elected to any other public office.
The gas tax provides only $2 billion for AWV. If King Couynty/Seattle opts for a $3 billion surface road, they still have to get another $1 billion from somewhere else. (The Feds? tolls? Local car tab tax?) If Mayor Nickels wants a $4 billion tunnel, he has to get the other $2 billion somewhere else (tolls will almost certainly be in the mix).
NONE of the AWV replacement options cost less than $2 billion. No matter which option is selected, the state will provide only $2 billion of gas tax money, period. So, in terms of how much gas tax you pay, it’s irrelevant which option is chosen.
JDB @ 142: “how long until [Sharkansky] and his lackeys start calling for the head of Chris Vance”
Though I’m Republican, I don’t consider myself a charter member of Shark’s club by any stretch. That said, I’ve called for Vance’s resignation (or non-reappointment) for some time now. I also said it again in another thread this morning. The WA GOP has been run on emotion by zealots. There is no excuse for the voter challenge screw-up. It backfired and hurt more than helped.
@106
Rick, why are you wasting your time on HA? Don’t you have an armadillo that needs screwing? Get cracking, man!
Mark @ 118
I work the night shift and sleep in late, dumbass.
@124
Sorry, Mark, but I-912 was sold as the anti-Gregoire, get-even-with-the-Democrats initiative. Here’s a thumb in your eye! :D
rujax @ 98
There was no “bait” to be had. First of all, I think we can agree that good and/or smart companies pay their productive employees well — with or without union intervention. Nordstrom is a perfect example.
Second, there is something wrong if the best job an adult is qualified for is in the $7/hr. class. (e.g. flipping burgers & making change). Much of that, IMHO, comes down to education and training. Note the difference. In the US, kids are told that college is the only real option. In Europe, kids are put on tracks based on their skills and interests. Kids with lower academic aptitude should be directed (though not forced) toward Voc-Ed-based high school and “college.” A good auto mechanic makes way more than a secretary, grocery clerk or burger flipper. This would also do more to improve the caliber of college educations because resources would not be wasted teaching high school math, etc. in college (all of those 101 courses).
Employees need to be paid based on productivity and value to the company. Even if Bob has been there for years, unless his work is of better quality or he passes on that knowledge to younger coworkers, why should he get automatic raises?
My big issue with the union system is that it slots people and that highly-talented younger workers face a “cloth ceiling” (the butt of the pants of the worker above them).
rujax @ 144
Now MY reply to you is stuck in FilterHell.
Dumb Bunny @ 149
Either you spend too much time listening to KVI or you’re just parroting what your party tells you.
Do your homework. Much of the outrage that caused I-912 was the fact that the Legislature overrode I-601. Yes, there was some anti-Gregoire sentiment — you gotta find all kinds of ways to motivate voters — but even part of that wasn’t Rossi-related, but against her “no new taxes” pledge-breaking.
And, BTW, Bunny Boy, you have no thumbs.
@137
Richard, I see your point. You deserve an Honorable Mention, which is hereby conferred!
@143
Keep deluding yourself, Mark. Rose Law Firm was investigated to death by a partisan right-wing hatchet man and the right-wing media megaphone, and Hillary came out of it clean. You wingnut bastards have got nuthin’ — NUTHIN — on Hillary. You’re gonna have to lie about her, like you did about Kerry’s war service and “intern affair,” but the Right Wing Lie Machine is losing its credibility and that won’t work for you in 2008.
In 2008, voters will be focused on the breathtaking corruption and malfeasance of the neocons and Bush years. The GOP dream of a permanent majority and one-party government is hitting a brick wall.
@151
Hey Mark, I have news for you … I voted for I-601 and I’m not mad at Gregoire and the Democratic legislature for overriding it. Artificial limits on government spending had its charm for a while, but our state’s population is growing, and under I-601 our education funding fell to 49th and our highways crumbled. It was time to move on. If you think you can find a better deal in another state — move. But good luck, because Washington’s aggregate state and local government tax burden is not out of line with other states, we’re about average. If you want to live in a rock-bottom-taxes state, try Mississippi — but if you do that, you’d better plan to send your kids to out-of-state private schools.
“He who pays the piper calls the tune —- unless it’s Keith Richards.”
Jack “Mad Dog” Paar
When corporate money is out of politics then we ( Republicans, Democrats, and everyone else ) can begin to talk about who “we” are going to elect. Until then it’s those legal persons with all the concentrated wealth and property who call the tune.
Sen. Ted Kennedy blasted the Bush administration Sunday morning for “subsuming” the nation in “scandal after scandal,” saying: “Clearly there has to be a cleaning of the White House.”
Asked about reports Saturday that Bush ordered his staff to attend ethics training classes, Kennedy told NBC’s “Meet the Press”: “I think ethics has to be more than a class, doesn’t it . . . Ethics has to be a much more basic and fundamental issue.”
Hmmmmm. Kennedy talking about Ethics? Okay.
– Ted managed to graduate from prep school (Milton Academy) in 1950 with only a C average.- Teddy was never a scholar, and his brother Jack once referred to him as “the gay illiterate”.
– Despite his terrible grades, Teddy (like brother Robert) was admitted to Harvard as a “legacy”, because his older brothers and father had graduated form there with such distinction.
– Yet even at Harvard, young Ted floundered.- In his sophomore year he was expelled for cheating. He had been failing Spanish and feared it would keep him off the varsity football team.- He paid a friend to take the exam for him.- Ted’s friend, however, was recognized when he turned in the exam book.
– Both lads were expelled, but were advised that they could apply for readmission in a year if they demonstrated responsible citizenship.- It was a shame and disgrace, but the family would manage to keep it a secret until Teddy ran for the Senate.
– After his expulsion from Harvard, Teddy returned to Hyannis Port where he would sit brooding, sometimes for hours.- Finally, he enlisted in the Army.- Not surprisingly, he did not bother to read the enlistment papers and signed up for four years instead of two.- Ted’s father, the US Ambassador to England, was horrofied at the thought of his youngest son spending four years in the service, with a good chance of being sent into combat in Korea.- “Don’t you ever look at what you’re signing?” he shouted.
– With one phone call Joe contacted a friend who managed to get hold of Teddy’s enlistment papers.- Ted’s enlistment period was shortened to two years, a maneuver that was nearly impossible for the average enlistee.- Furthermore, Ted would do his service in Europe, not Korea.
– Teddy never rose above the rank of private, and was discharged in 1952.- He returned to Harvard in the fall of 1953, as did his test-taking friend, and they graduated together.
Once back at Harvard, Teddy made the rugby team.- During one match in 1954, Ted got into three fistfights with opposing players and was finally thrown out of the game. According to referee Frederick Costick, Teddy was the only player he had ever expelled from a game in thirty years of officiating.- “Rugby is a character-building sport,” Costick said. “Players learn how to conduct themselves on the field with the idea that they will learn how to conduct themselves in life. When a player loses control of himself three times in a single afternoon, to my mind, that is a sign that, in a crisis, the man is not capable of thinking clearly and acting rationally. Such a man will panic under pressure.”
On March 19, 1962 Teddy announced that he was a candidate for the US Senate.- Almost immediately, the Boston Globe unearthed the dark secret in Teddy’s past – that he had been expelled from Harvard for cheating.- Robert L Healy, political editor of the Globe, found the story. In order to get it into the paper, however, he had to get some confirmation. He asked the White House to open up the Harvard record and was immediately summoned to the Oval Office.- The President and his aides kept pressing Healy to play down the story, but he stood his ground. “So finally, Jack gave me access to the whole thing,” Healy said.
On March 30 the Globe ran the story. Ted immediately issued a statement accepting full blame:
“I made a mistake. What I did was wrong. I have regretted it ever since. The unhappiness I caused my family and friends, even though eleven years ago, has been a bitter experience for me, but it has also been a valuable lesson. That is the story.”
– This was the first of what would become the three historic apologies of Ted’s career
– The cheating story eventually died, and Ted was elected to the Senate.
– The admiring journalist Joe McCarthy had no illusions about young Ted. “He isn’t very very heavy mentally……..nothing like his brothers. In many ways he’s a fathead, a little bit conceited, a little bit cocky, the kind of guy who’d never finish a sentence when you asked him a question. He simply didn’t think things through as Jack and Bobby did.”
Now we don’t have time right now to go though the whole Drink Drink Giggle Giggle Vroom Vroom Crash Crash Splash Splash Glub Glub thingy where Teddy boy Murdered Mary Jo.
Ted- You are the last one to ever talk about Ethics you drunk murdering bastard.
Living EPT Test @ 153
I have no delusions about what may or may not be up with the Rose Law Firm stuff. I ONLY said it would be scrutinized again. You Lefties are plenty happy to rehash issues over and over and over. Why shouldn’t the Right play your game, too?
EPT @ 154
So, you’re saying you voted FOR it before you decided AGAINST it?
re 156:How many thousands of people is Ted Kennedy responsible for murdering? Ted Kennedy had some ethical problems when he was young. Bush has them RIGHT NOW– while he’s our supposed president.
How about some research on the boyfriend that Laura Bush ran over and killed in a drunken stupor? George’s drug arrests, military deserting, the Harken deal that illegally garnered millions. George W. Bush is a dishonest , lying pampered , rich frat boy who is too stupid to speak a full sentence —- and our young people are dying because of his stupidity and dishonesty and yous in voting for him. You traitorous scum!
Gosh Joe, thanks for the off-topic lecture on Ted Kennedy. Now let me tell you why your entire post is irrelevant: you address the Senator’s personal life exclusively. Kennedy is attacking the administration on its professional ethics. If he were attacking Bush on his personal ethics (which would be a rather lengthy laundry list, by the way), then you’d have half an argument. He’s not doing that, however, so your post is completely off-base. Perhaps you have a taste for smoked red herrings?
This prominent liberal says that conservatives are nasty, hateful people but once told a newspaper, “I dislike homosexuals. … I was glad when that [Harvard] homosexual got killed.”
a. Sean Penn
b. Ted Danson
c. Al Franken Answer:
C. Al Franken, Mr. Sensitivity, told the Harvard Crimson that very thing.
Who says that oil companies cause pollution and global warming but quietly owns an oil company that drills for crude in five states?
a. Tom Daschle
b. Dan Rather
C. The Kennedys
Answer: C. The Kennedys. The Kennedys own Arctic Royalty Trust, which leases out land for oil drilling in five states. Much of the land was accumulated by convincing poor rural black farmers to give away their “mineral rights,” not knowing what it meant. The Kennedys set the operation up as a Royalty Trust to avoid paying income and corporate taxes on the profits. Family members including Ted Kennedy, environmentalist Robert Kennedy, Jr., and Joe Kennedy, Jr. receive checks every year.
How could this be? Wait a sec….. it is easy. The libs are the party of “NO” with No ideas, no plans and no core values. Libs are a “Do as I say Not as I do” party. From the top on down, the libs are nothing but hypocrites!
Gosh, Joe, thanks again for the further lecture about “liberals”. Let me direct you to my post above. It should say 159 just above it.
Dearest “Joe”-
Last time I looked dipshit, Kennedy was NOT the President (Never had been…I recollect) and the Republican Party had control of the House, Senate, White House and Supreme Court. Last I heard…the Bush Administration was going to bring decency, honor, honesty and professionalism “back” to the White House. Last time I looked…DC was lousy with prominent Republicans facing indictment and/or investigation. Last I checked…there were NO straight answers coming from ANY of these “straight shooters”. Oh…I’m trying to remember when that Clinton Administration “Ethics Class” was…oh, nevermind.
Now Teddy’s no angel…but the liars, thieves, deserters, pornographers, dissemblers, draft dodgers and incompetents populating the National Republican Party Leadership right now are starting to make ‘ol Ted look like a piker. A REAL choirboy!
I guess we won’t get into how Georgie Porgie (or as I like to call him: Captian Codpiece, Chickenshit in Chief) managed to lead over TWO THOUSAND of our brave young service persons to slaughter for some cooked up “vanity war”…so he’d look tougher than his daddy…no, we won’t go there today.
So…”Joe” take your 10 year old talking points…aaand…
…oh, wait…now I get it…
YOU’RE LITTLE RUMMY JOSEF! “Joe” Pretnding you can shave. That’s rich! Jo-eeeeee! Scram kid. You’re too young to be in here.
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! One Drowns girls, the other sticks cigars in em…. Whats next libbies? Since you are on the obvious high moral ground here!
Well, that didn’t take long. I guess our new “guest” “Joe” is another probably PAID agitprop artist.
Joe, Joe…it’s over fuckhead…you lost this battle and you’ll lose this war. Your guys are TOAST. Get over it.
re 161 Joe: I found information that Patrick Kennedy receives yearly payouts from Arctic Royalty Limited Partnership. I could find no information on what that business might be or where it does business. Just an affirmation by scurrilous agitprop types that that is what the business is and does. Can you direct us to any solid informatioin on this business? I am betting you can’t. You seem like a “big lie” kind of guy to me.
I was thinking……. The degenerate liberals have managed to get the Hammer to step aside by making up some charges with no evidence…….. Will it work on the Liberals?
What if I accused Harry Reid of, you know……. touching me where my bathing suit covers with out, asking or buying me drinks. Will he step aside? I doubt it even if he gave me a 2 knuckler behind the dumpster at Denny’s. My point is, rules do not apply to liberals. The Liberals pick which laws appeal to them and then follow them until they lose appeal.
I could accuse him but, would probably end up with Teddy driving me off a Bridge or being beaten to death with a golf club by one of Teddy’s cousins.
Gosh, Joe, thanks yet again for the further lecture about “liberals”. Let me direct you to my post above. It should say 159 just above it. That’s 1-5-9.
Even in victory you have no manners.
It’s sad.
@167
Joe — thanks for reminding us that right wingers are (A) liars who (B) make up shit and (C) are oddly obsessed with sex, genitalia, and perverted sexual practices. Although it would be hard to forget because they do it so frequently.
In response to Chuck’s response to me @ 14, money doesn’t vote either. People do. so Statewide, more people opposed I-912 than favored it. That’s a fact,
JackChuck.Now, if you have proof that the votes were bought, perhaps you should provide your evidence to the authorities. Such behavior is illegal. And withholding the evidence is also illegal, and makes you an accessory, I beleive. Did you know that?
I did love the mental image of John Carlson having his balls handed to him. Thanks for that!!
@157
Please explain why getting a C average in college is unethical. Please explain why enlisting in the Army is unethical. Please explain why “sitting for hours, brooding” is unethical.
Hey Joe, we already know Ted Kennedy is a favorite hate object of right-wing haters like you. It galls the shit out of you that Kennedy has been elected to the U.S. Senate — what — five times? Six? I’ve lost track. The voters of Massachusetts love him!!! Is he a perfect human being? No, but he’s not running for Messiah or Archangel, either.
Since you brought up the question of character, let me explain something to you about character. Kennedy cheated in college, and killed a woman while driving drunk. Geez, champ, tell us something we don’t already know, okay? But Kennedy doesn’t vote to take medical care away from poor kids, like Republicans do. Kennedy doesn’t vote to cut food stamps for poor people in order to give more tax cuts to rich people, like Republicans do. Kennedy doesn’t smear his political opponents, like Republicans do. Kennedy doesn’t invade foreign countries on false pretenses, round up innocent civilians, and torture them to do in hell chambers like Republicans do. Kennedy stole a college grade; Bush and his cronies stole billions of dollars.
Kennedy is not a perfect human being, but flawed as he is, he has more character in the small knuckle of his little finger than all of you right-wing fucks put together — even when he’s drunk.
Ok girls one more test, then I have to run.
Which liberal says that labor unions are essential for worker rights and accepted the Cesar Chavez Award for their contributions to the labor movement, but uses non-union labor in the hotels, restaurants, and Napa Valley Vineyard that they own?
a. Susan Sarandon
b. Paul Newman
c. Nancy Pelosi
Answer: C. Nancy Pelosi, who is part owner of the Piatti restaurant chain, La Auberge Hotel, and a Napa Valley Vineyard—all of which are strictly non-union.
Who proclaims themself an environmentalist but is part-owner of a golf course that failed to comply with state environmental regulations to protect the California Tiger Salamander and the Western Pond Turtle?
a. Leonardo DiCaprio
b. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
c. Nancy Pelosi
Answer: C. Nancy Pelosi. Pelosi and her husband are part owners of the CordeValle Golf Club in
California. In 1996 they were granted a permit to build the course if they created natural habitats for these endangered species. To date, these habitats still have not been built. The golf course has also been cited for polluting groundwater. They have hired lobbyists to fight the regulations.
Hey Joe, if you want a debate on character, let’s discuss your party’s immoral tactic of challenging legal voters in Democratic precincts two days before an election. Let’s talk about the character of Lori Sotelo, who committed 1,944 counts of perjury. Or, if you wish, let’s talk about the Republican traitors who “outed” a CIA agent — putting political retaliation ahead of national security. You want to know what bad character is? Show me almost any Republican and I’ll show you a total lack of character.
Roger Rabbit’s new bumper sticker:
Run, Joe, Run!
Instructions:
1. Peel off backing paper
2. Clean bumper surface
3. Affix to front bumper
4. Start engine
Just kidding, joe.
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
Hey Rabbit-
I think that clown really DOES work for the RNC.
Oh, one more comment about #157 — No matter how much you rightwing nutbags hate Ted Kennedy, the fact he said the Bush administration has subsumed the nation in scandal after scandal doesn’t make it untrue.
The Bush administration has subsumed the nation in scandal after scandal.
There, now Roger Rabbit said it, too. If you don’t want to quote Ted Kennedy because you don’t like the source, feel free to quote Roger Rabbit instead.
It’s a fact the Bush administration has subsumed the nation in scandal after scandal. The voters spoke about it, softly, yesterday. They are going to speak about it again in 2006, probably less softly, and when the tsunami of voter anger over Republican corruption, incompetence, and malfeasance hits the GOPers in 2008, they’ll think they died and went to Hell.
Joe = rightwing nutbag apologist for corruption, incompetence, and malfeasance
@177
You mean Joe? Naw, he’s just some high school dropout living in a trailer who spends all his time mass forwarding right wing hate e-mails, and cutting and pasting rightwing blog rants.
Hey — here’s some good reading material for Joe and the other paranoid conspiracy buffs on this thread. Hey, if you liked the Vince Foster story, you’ll eat this one up, too:
http://www.rense.com/general44/deaad.htm
“Woman Who Filed Sex Suit Against Bush Dead”
“Clipped from a Yahoo board: 11-10-3
“Woman who filed sexual assault lawsuit against bush confirmed dead, cause of death listed as ‘gunshot wound to head’…”
Let’s see, what else do I have in my “Conspiracy” file? Oh, here’s one: http://www.voxfux.com/features.....count.html
“People With Connections To The Bush Dynasty Who Met With Suspicious And Untimely Deaths
“This list examines the corpses left in the wake of the Bush criminal dynasty.”
I’m not saying I believe those conspiracy stories, I’m just saying that if you believe the right-wing conspiracy tales, then logic asks, why wouldn’t you believe the anti-right-wing conspiracy tales, too?
Oh, and here’s a list of Bush scandals — called “The 34 Scandals of George Bush” — and that’s only the ones we know about, and furthermore, this is an old list which undoubtedly has grown considerably. http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/011905D.shtml
Where’s Joe? Did Joe run away from Roger Rabbit? Hey Joe, I was just kidding about the bumper sticker. Joe?
I guess Joe isn’t here anymore. I think I’ll go to another thread.
Roger, man i fell off my bunk reading “ted kennedy” and character in the same sentence..
You mean drowning someone or at best fleeing the scene, is a sign of good character? You really want that guy watching your back?
got clean up after myself
Lefties: You can’t comprehend what we are saying. If someone like Ben Nelson or Joe Lieberman said the same stuff we would listen more. When Ted Kennedy says anything, even if it is constructive criticism, we discount it cause he is what he is! DO you get it?
Yeah Puddingbrain…
When Bush or Cheney say anything I want to puke.
P.S. Nelson and Lieberman are dino’s. Fuck ’em. Esp. that traitor Lieberman. joementum my ass.
rujax,
My reply to your earlier post is now up @ 150.
P.S. Remember how it was earlier today when there weren’t four letter words in every post?? Just a thought.
It is obvious that France is unable to Govern itself. Jacques Nagin Chirac is quivering behind a tapestry somewhere is the Elysee Palace gnashing his teef and damning the eyes of anyone demanding leadership from him…… Is it time for the Huns again?
How long till Froggy assumes his natural position and thows it’s hands in the air and starts handing over Jews for export?
Goldy, take stock in your blog. They will not have your back.
Joe, WTF are you talking about??
Riots in France by the Muslims and Africans complaining that the French haven’t given them jobs and their unemployment is >40%. Do you lefties pay attention to the world news? France has been under saige for the past two weeks. Over 5000 cars, 10s of buses, schools burned? Damn lefties there is more to the world than David Irons. Oh, that’s right that’s your world. Most of you lefties probably haven’t left King County lately.
By the way nindid, a compilation of today’s news on Arnold’s defeats: “The unions spent millions of dollars to beat Schwarzenegger’s propositions to limit the use of their member dues for political purposes, cap state spending, redraw legislative districts and restrict public school teacher tenure.” – That sums it all up!
Figures anything with Fran@e & m^slims gets hammered by the filter!
Yeah, it was kinda peaceful around here for a while.
Given the chance, in my experience over the years, an employer will exploit employees. But that is inherent in the Capitalistic system (ps…I AM a capitalist. I have been an employer…and employee. I have expolited and been exploited.). I think even Nordstrom has had labor trouble in the past. The point is that there are perhaps 5% MAYBE 10% of employers that approach the utopian ideal of meritocracy you mention. Great! But what about the Wal-Marts of the world. What about employers who make sure that employees are kept UNDER a certain number of hours so benefits won’t have to be paid or force overtime or collude to artificially depress wages or fail to maintain minimum safety standards. And DON’T tell me that doesn’t happen anymore.
I’m talkin’ about job drain here too. I’m talking about the erosion of the social safety net…the shifting of the burden of pensioners from the private sector to the public. Corporate mergers and takeovers are back with a vengeance with a concomitant loss of jobs. In many areas…when those jobs are gone, jobs that have been in a region for generations, there is NOTHING to replace them.
There IS a natural ebb and flow in an economy and a workforce (we lived and died with Boeing’s ups and downs for decades before this regional economy diversified), but the natural inclination of an employer is to reduce labor cost…sometimes at ANY cost and the purpose of an organized labor movement is to work toward maintainence of a living wage and a safe and productive work environment. For the most part…until the modern union busting movement led by Ronald Reagan…labor and management working together (sometimes VERY reluctantly) have succeeded in those objectives.
This administration does not believe in retraining. They don’t believe in worker and pensioner protection. They believe in a Laisse-Faire attitude toward business not seen since the Harding Administration.
I go on and on about a lot of things but I really believe in economic justice. If a man has a job that pays a living wage…that man will invest himself in the capitalistic system, buy goods and services support other members of the community and be relatively happy. It’s just amazing how some social problems ease up when folks can make money and feel they can live and survive.
So my question is “Why not strive to create a capitalist utopia (or as close as we can gewt to it) where everyone has a chance to compete.” Instead of the annointed few…which is what has happened in the last 5 1/2 years.
And I’m not going to get into minutia about labor this and that and management this and that. There’s lots of good and lots of bad on both sides. I do however, believe that the “unwritten” social contract between business and worker has been stretched and skewed and needs to be brought back into balance. This is not enitely altruistic on my part. To earn my living I need a strong and vital middle class. I’ve been seeing that erode for a number of years now and I am concerned.
I think we all should be.
Hi Mark-
I’ve got a reply stuck in the ozone. It’ll be out…sometime.
hee-hee
Angry ‘Pubes = good news.
spanked, silently brooding ‘Pubes = GREAT NEWS !
this New Yorker says a big thank you to Washington state for recovering your destiny in this election.
Now on to impeaching the Bush-dolt.
“no” to Arctic oil drilling is just a bonus.
and it’s just beginning – there is an endless supply of shit-sucking ‘Pubes to indict, harrass and bitch-slap.
say bye-bye ‘Pubes.
David Axelrod: Your copycat posts just demonstrate how insecure you are in having to continually post the same crap all over the threads. Hmmm…? Having a “Everybody! Look at me!” moment?Someone already wrote you in another thread about the scabies issues you have regarding “Pubes”. Do you need some lanolin soap/lotion to clean those “Pubes”?
not angry, and I hardly think this year’s election was a referendum on Gregoire’s selection.
1. A republican KC Exec? Not likely.
2. 912 was sold by the extreme right as a referendum on Gregoire’s selection – I think a number of more level-headed republicans saw through that one.
The real referendum will be in 3 years when we re-elect Gov. Rossi. Enjoy f’ing up the state until then!
eric……BINGO to you. no kidding. but alas…..deaniac logan will still be “counting” the votes.
king co.’s motto? a cheating we will go, a cheating we will go……..
and if they keep cheating dean will never have to go.