Obama. I think. But I’ll give the Clinton supporters every chance to persuade me.
That’s the great thing about a precinct caucus; it’s one of those rare opportunities for you and your neighbors to get together, roll up your sleeves, and get yourselves elbow deep in the nitty-gritty of American democracy. So get yourself off your butt and head out to your caucus: 1PM today; you can find your caucus location here.
I’ll blog on my experience later this afternoon, and you can hear my preview on Bill Scher’s LiberalOasis Radio Show on WHMP in Northhampton MA.
Obama wants to take us — ALL of us — someplace wonderful.
What is this wonderful place? It’s hard to describe.
Has he been there? No.
Has he seen it? No.
Has anyone alive ever been there? No.
But it’s a wonderful place.
I can come to only one possible conclusion: Barack Obama wants us all dead.
“Obama. I think. But I’ll give the Clinton supporters every chance to persuade me.”
Yeah, that’s where I’m at too. After watching Bush and Co. shit of the constitution it would be nice to have someone that taught constitutional law (University Of Chicago) in the White House.
RonK – We’ve all been to the places the Clinton seem to want to take us.
Molly Ivins again:
http://freepress.org/columns/display/1/2006/1304
Been there, done that.
Hillary isn’t perfect. Nowhere near. So go ahead and vote for the Vichy Democrat, if that’s what appeases your conscience.
America is an occupied country.
Goldy, I am eager to hear your caucusing experience. Can you please make a statement on party unity regardless of the outcome? And what is your take on the fact that Michelle Obama said that she would have “to think about” supporting and working for Hillary if she wins the nomination.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp_7nnIvWJM
Michelle Obama is actually going to “think about” something? The nerve of that uppity black woman. Right Gordon? Doesn’t she know her place? Right Gordon?
vote for the Vichy Democrat
Way over the top. Obama is nowhere in same building with a Lieberman.
Now that Goldy is unemployed & semi-unemployable, it doesn’t surprise me Goldy supports “Feel-good” Obama.
What a schmuck.
Obama will take care of you Goldy.
Not exactly sure how…but all that is important is that you feel that way.
As a conservative, it is mind-boggling to watch this Democratic Party hatchet jobs….and how naive most Obama supporters are. Rog is right…errrrrrr, I mean correct, Obama is the vichy candidate/the talk of Starbucks.
I guarantee you if Obama gets in, the terrorists will strike immediately. Obama will negotiate like Chamberlain did with Hitler and Svoboda of Czech in 1968 did with Breshnev. Wonderful talking will they build strength & power. At least Hillary has some balls and is realistic about the terrorists.
Hopefully some of these Lefty’s will wake up about Obama’s feel-good, say nothing tactics and support Hillary. The fringe lunatic left/suck on the government nipple KLOWNS are hopeless.
I have donated to both Clinton and Obama. I am Caucusing for Obama. I was asked to be a Caucus leader for Clinton. Last night I was on a Conference call for 400 Clinton Caucus leaders (I felt like a spy). Their plan is to be polite and aggressive. Take up all the time for the one minute speeches. Give personally stories of why Clinton is better and command all positions of leadership at the Caucus. I have changed my mind and I am voting for Obama. Watch out for the polite aggresive Cliton people.
@10
Roger – there you go. The right wingers WANT Hillary to run against a McCain/Romney ticket. That works best for them.
Why is Anne Coulter saying nice things about Hillary and bashing McCain: 1) she wants Hillary to be the nominee and 2) she said she’ll vote for McCain if Romney is on the ticket.
Yes Coulter is insane but at least these crazies really know what they want.
In 1998 at the annual white house correspondents dinner McCain told the joke, “Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father.” I’d love to see Hillary in a debate with McCain, and that little gem come up. Almost reason enough to make Clinton our nominee.
@8 troll
If you think I am implying that she is an uppity black woman and I am scared of those who think for themselves you are way over reading into it. Or else projecting.
My point has nothing to do with gender or race. My point is that the answer to this kind of question should be fairly automatic. And between this and Barack Obama’s statements about Reagan it leaves me uncertain about their commitment to winning as democrats. At best the Obama camp is just ambivalent about whether a democrat or republican wins the general, at worst they kind of floating the same kind “gore = bush” tripe that Nader floated in 2000. And I voted for Nader. Well not this time. I will not believe the lie even if it comes disguised as hope and change.
Someone should give Dwight Pelz a call and tell him get off his #@%& and fix the WA State Dems website, ’cause their caucus location look up function is dead.
@15
That hasn’t worked with Fire Fox for a couple of days.
@13 ewp
Great point. I am also looking forward to that moment. Also I am looking forward to the moment when a female leader of the free world can go over to the middle east and figuratively unzip her pants suit and menstruate all over the ambitions of oil sheiks and islamo fascist thugs. The sexist bastards will be in such shock they won’t know what to do with themselves. It will be great.
Viva Hillary!
@3
The Molly Ivans piece is great.
“If no one in conventional-wisdom politics has the courage to speak up and say what needs to be said, then you go out and find some obscure junior senator from Minnesota with the guts to do it. In 1968, Gene McCarthy was the little boy who said out loud, “Look, the emperor isn’t wearing any clothes.” Bobby Kennedy — rough, tough Bobby Kennedy — didn’t do it. Just this quiet man trained by Benedictines who liked to quote poetry.
What kind of courage does it take, for mercy’s sake? The majority of the American people (55 percent) think the war in Iraq is a mistake and that we should get out. The majority (65 percent) of the American people want single-payer health care and are willing to pay more taxes to get it. The majority (86 percent) of the American people favor raising the minimum wage. The majority of the American people (60 percent) favor repealing Bush’s tax cuts, or at least those that go only to the rich. The majority (66 percent) wants to reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending, but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.
The majority (77 percent) thinks we should do “whatever it takes” to protect the environment. The majority (87 percent) thinks big oil companies are gouging consumers and would support a windfall profits tax. That is the center, you fools. WHO ARE YOU AFRAID OF?”
Well I am off to caucus for Hillary!
@14 Ok, if it’s not racial, please point me to a comment of yours where you have become angry at a white person for wanting to think.
Ann Coulter is for Hillary because she prefers the more conservative candidate who has the better understaning of economics. In New Hampshire, McCain said “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should,”. Is that really someone we want as president???
@ 20 Please tone down the accusation that Gordon is being racist. It’s a legit question. Reporters ask that question all the time and love it when the person responds as Michelle Obama did. It creates controversy, which makes news. Michelle should have said what everyone is suppose to say, and that’s whomever is the nominee of the party I will wholeheartedly support. These are the types of mistakes that one has to worry about when supporting a largely untested candidate. Sen. Obama has never had to respond to the right wing attack machine, and if he thinks it won’t be unleashed on him then he’s sadly mistaken. This is one point where Clinton is a known and tested commodity. She’s been on the receiving end of the Republican smear machine for going on two decades.
I’m going to Hillary mostly for her Health Care benefit, but also Obama seems to be talking the talk but can he really walk????
Ann Coulter is saying she’s for Hillary for the same reason she says anything: to bask in the public’s attention and masturbate her own pathetic ego.
@1 Ronk
So you do not know where BHO wants us to go? And where, pray tell, do you think HRC wants us to go?
The real truth is that for the most part both of these people want the same thing … in a single phrase , greater opporunity for all Americans.
I think most rationl people would agree thyat these are two well meaning and talented people.
So the question comes down to who do you think has a beetewr chance of elading us toward that goal?
Frankly, I doubt there is any hard and fast answer. people I respect have chosen sides with both HRC and BHO.
On her side I am impressed by her busband, General Clark, Ron Soms, patthy Murry, Robert Murry, … these are all not just bright people, but peole I beleive are patriots..
On his side I am impressed by Lawerence Tribe, Colin Powell, Chirs Gregoire, Orah Winfrey, Eyhel Kennedy, Caroline Kennedy, and some of fhis finnacial advisors…. these are all not just bright people, but people I beleive are patriots..
There are good reasons to choose against +either of these.
vs, HRC
Despite vast hype, Hillary has only served in a major role in the children’s movement for one year. Most of her career has been as the raimaker and partner to Bill.
Her record of being able to explian equality to the right is very poor. Someone will need to do this next year.
vs BHO
Barack has led a more impressive carear ina short time, but it is a short time and he did nto have a political spuse to support.
Undoubtaby there are some racists lest in our country.
Isn’t it grrat to have real choices?
The Piper is hosting a caucus in the 45th Legislative District, and planning on a big turnout. As the DimDems snarl and claw each other as if in a massive catfight, we will civilly and respectfully debate our issues, let everyone have their say, and then unite behind the nominee of our party.
Why? Because America is at war, and the pettiness of the Democrats is an insult to the issues of the day. Go ahead, libs, and bitch at each other over secondary and even tertiary issues; we will stay on message, on task, on target.
Have a nice caucus!
The Piper
@9 I don’t think it’s over the top at all. Obama has made national unity and reaching across the aisle the centerpiece of his campaign. He’s promising a new golden age of bipartisanship. He’s representing to voters that he can get Republicans to work with Democrats on bringing about positive chanages. How is this not equivalent to Chamberlain’s “peace in our time”? Why does this genius think he can get Republicans to behave like reasonable, civilized people — when no one else can? He’s selling a bill of goods, and I’m calling bullshit on it. The only way he can work with Republicans is by giving them what they want, caving in, surrendering; and if he doesn’t understand that, then he’s not remotely experienced enough in national politics to be president. I don’t think I’m being unfair at all. The central theme of Obama’s campaign is a crock. I didn’t choose that theme, he did. He’s promising something he can’t deliver, and no one is responsible for that except him. Why should he get a free pass on this nonsense?
@10 It must gall the shit out of you that either Obama or Hillary is going to be president, doesn’t it Cynical? Suck on it. You should’ve bought NOV at 29* like I told you. At least you’d be prosperous in your political misery!
* Adjusted for split.
27 – Well tell you what Rog. Let’s elect progressive Dems to the House and the Senate so we can protect him from himself.
What do you say?
Make no mistake, if Obama is our nominee, I will vote for him!! We are currently involved with selecting our candidate, and it is fair to point out the strengths and weaknesses of the competing candidates as we go through this process. But our troll friends are making a BIG mistake if they think there’s dissension in our party that will enable their warmonger to win in November. After the caucuses and primaries are over, we will close ranks behind our candidate and stand together as one. Count on it!!! Democrats haven’t been this determined since FDR’s days. We are going to purge the Republican scourge from American political life and restore this nation to its former glory. Nothing can stop us. The nomination contest between Obama and Hillary is merely a sideshow that will quickly fade after one of them locks up the nomination, and then all Democratic voices will speak as one:
REPUBLICANS SUCK, AND THE GOP MUST GO!!!
we will civilly and respectfully debate our issues, let everyone have their say, and then unite behind the nominee of our party.
More bullshit. The crazies hate McCain. Some crazies crave Paul and some Huckabee.
Your “civility” is despair over the paucity of choices.
And a caucus is not a debate. You make an argument and someone else either changes their mind or not.
@29 I’m 100% with you there. I would like to see Democrats win every single seat in the House and Senate!! Of course, that won’t happen, due to the corrupt GOP gerrymandering that will take some time to reverse. However, we should realize solid gains in both houses this year. In the House, the Republicans have 5 times as many retirements as the Democrats. In the Senate, the GOP has 22 seats up for grabs compared to 11 for the Democrats, and half a dozen retiring senators vs. none for the Democrats. We should pick up 20 to 40 more seats in the House, maybe more, and 6 to 8 seats in the Senate with a filibuster-proof 60-seat majority difficult but not impossible. After next January, we won’t need the Blue Dog Democrats or Joe Lieberman anymore.
@31 The GOPers tried to rig their nominating system. Trouble is, they rigged it for the wrong guy. Now they’re crying into their milk. Poor Lush Flim Flam Man is having apopletic spasms!! He’s going to need more than Oxycontin to get through the next 8 months. They all will. Maybe they’ll get a chance to vote for Michael Bloomberg.
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
The worst thing wrong with Obama is that he’s too nice to Republicans. I’d rather have that problem, than have their problems. And I still like our guy much better than any of their guys.
@26 “The Piper is hosting a caucus in the 45th Legislative District, and planning on a big turnout.”
Better have 3 donuts on hand in case that big turnout shows up.
Rog–
I did take your advice & bought NOV in the low 30’s.
Thanks.
Actually, if Hillary becomes President, I am not one of those “chicken little” conservatives. I have already realized most of my Long-Term Capital Gains and will definitely cash out before she gets in office.
Obama is a different story. He is Neville Chamberlain!
Feel-good bullshitter…just what the KLOWNS lap up.
Listening to Obama & supporters, it appears we do not need a President because he is going to “lead us” based on Polls!! Not good.
If Obama does become President, he will set the Democratic Party back 20 years. Not so with Hillary.
I will vote for McCain. I disagree with him on a few things…but I believe he is an honest man who has a history of reaching across the aisle to get stuff done.
We are at a time in our History where we need a leader who is strong on defense.
Mr. Cynical guarantees a terrorist attack…accordingly, Mr. Cynical must have ties to the terrorists (not unusual for a republican – look at the Bush family ties to bin Laden) so I have forwarded a copy of this thread to Homeland Security asking that they investigate the suspicious conduct by Mr. Cynical since he sure sounds like he’s connected to the terrorists to me. I wonder if Mr. Cynical has ever been waterboarded?
do enemas count?
It is gonna be great to see Mr. Cynical and Pooper relegated to Mr. and Mrs Irrelevant.
@36: McCain is an honest man – hahahaha
did you miss his pandering with Bush?
Did you miss his kiss and make up with the right wing?
did you miss his “Baghdad is safe” walk that was precleared and with a flak jacket?
Did you miss his Keating 5 non-apology?
I will love it when Obama is debating McCain and McCain falls asleep becaue his meds aren’t adjusted right.
Or McCain in charge of our economy – someone who admits to knowing NOTHING about it.
Or 50-100 more years in Iraq – and other pithy McCain saying. Yeah – he is honest about SOME things – like how he is a warmonger and will keep us in Iraq forever. Wait unitl his precious surge starts to crumble…oh, it already is.
@26: Piper
america is at war because our dimwitted president suckered the country into an unnecessary war against the wrong place.
If the republicans were in charge during WW2 we would have invaded Brazil after Pearl Harbor.
Now – we are losing the war against al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan and can’t convince the Europeans to help us (because OUR military is too depleted due to Iraq) and because the no one trusts us after Iraq (and this is from Gates – in the Bush Administration!)
@25: Seattl Jew
Nice summary – you also need to include that Obama has been against the war consistently and Hillary voted for the Authorization of Military force in Iraq.
This speaks to Hillary voting politics over conscience – and why I will not vote for Hillary (unless she is the nominee).
Aso, Hillary serves on the Wallmart board – not exactly a pro-union shop.
One of the main complaints about Obama is that he hasn’t mastered the dark arts of twisting arms in the legislature.
One of the good things about how the primary is going is that neither Hillary nor Obama is going to “win” enough delegates to walk into the convention as the annoited nominee.
Barring unusual circumstances, the convention will be brokered, and the final candidate will be decided by twisting the arms of the superdelegates.
If Obama becomes the nominee by this method, a persistent complaint that he is out of his league will be denounced in a baptism by fire.
PS Piper, my Democratic precinct behaved like perfect ladies and gentlemen today. In Piper’s fantasy world, we all behaved like animals. The deviance between the world between Piper’s ears and how it works outside explains a good many things.
@43…JSAonBH…
“The deviance between the world between Piper’s ears and how it works outside explains a good many things.”
Whatever “point” you were trying to make aside, I have to ask: was yours – however much of it you have – a public school education???
The Piper
@41…Reformed,etc….
You qualify as a military strategist because…???
We’re losing the war in Afghanistan? Then what’s your brilliant plan for success?
If things suck so bad, why don’t you enlist and help out?
BTW…Iraq? I support that effort in spades…but you already know that. Why? Because the back of Islamo-Fascism has to be broken somewhere, and that’s as good a place as any to do it.
But that’s not something you care about, is it? Unless, that is, if it were a Democratic President calling the shots, and then you’d be all for it.
Much of the opposition to Iraq isn’t about Iraq it’s about opposition to George W. Bush.
The Piper
@43…JSAonBH…
“One of the main complaints about Obama is that he hasn’t mastered the dark arts of twisting arms in the legislature.”
Al Sharpton called. You just Don Imused yourself.
The Piper
/
ehem… BILLSHIT!
That is your cue to provide even a small bit if evidence to support this lunatic comment of yours, Pooper.
I’m old enough to be having “deja vu” about the complaints that Obama has supposedly little experience — because JFK had precisely the same amount of governance “experience” when he took office. He was a young senator serving his first term in office when he ran for president. His supporters, too, were sneered at by others as being supporting their candidate for irrationally emotional reasons. Hello? What is leadership about if it’s not the ability to inspire?
Why I’m supporting Obama, in part, is because I’m so delighted to see the college age and other younger voters — supporters of Obama — so energized and so eager to take part in re-claiming our country from the “horribles” currently in control. I voted for Bill Clinton — and I think that he did a good job (particularly on rescuing the country from Reagan’s terrifying deficit spending), but this is a different situation now. We’re at war (a war we launched against a country that never attacked us); we’re torturing people who might be bad guys (but are not being given basic rights, such as a speedy trial or hearing the evidence against them and being allowed to argue their case — by the way, note that the recently announced upcoming trials of prisoners involve people who were not part of the original group at Guantanamo — so why are those people still being held there for what is soon to be 7 years?); and our constitutional rights are being shredded before our eyes.
Hillary’s “experience” is, in my view, a negative — it’s an acceptance of the current status quo or the current corruption in Washington where our “Democratic leaders” (currently an oxymoron) are being doormats at best. Hillary’s most recent line is that she’d be the better leader because she can “take it” — meaning that she knows how to survive attacks by right-wing Republicans. I don’t want someone who is willing and able to “take it” — I want somebody who can lead the fight to take our constitution back!
I may be a cockeyed optimist in supporting Obama, but I still have some hope that we can get our country and our rights back, and I do not believe Hillary’s enough of an inspiring leader to lead that fight. She’s got too many negatives in terms of past errors (go look up her making an enemy of Democratic Cong. Jim Cooper of Tenn. when he dared to disagree with her on the original health care proposals during her husband’s first term) and recent compromises (of which her vote on the war is only one). The Republicans are just dreaming of Hillary being the Democratic candidate! (See recent NY Times poll — Hillary vs. McCain = McCain wins; Obama vs. McCain = Obama wins.) We’ve got Republicans who are crossing the line in droves (see Idaho, Wyoming, Montana) to support Obama. Not true of Hillary.
All of that said, if HRC is the candidate, then I’ll support her. (I’m a “yellow dog Democrat.”) But I definitely understand why Michelle Obama said that if HRC is the candidate, she’d have to think about whether she’d support her.