Today comes reports in the Times, the P-I and elsewhere of a lawsuit fronted by the the WA State Farm Bureau, and joined by the usual suspects (BIAW, EFF, etc), challenging the Legislature’s invocation of the “emergency clause” in passing an amendment to I-601 that removed the initiative’s extra-constitutional super-majority requirement to raise the state spending limit. The lawsuit’s goal is to toss out $400 million in tax increases from the state budget, plunging the state into a financial crisis.
Hugh Spitzer, arguably our leading scholar on state constitutional law, politely calls the case “a very uphill battle.” I’d say its futile, but since Hugh’s the expert, let’s just go with what he has to say.
Spitzer said such a decision by the court “would create a large mess.” But he doesn’t think that will happen.
The court has given lawmakers broad discretion in determining what constitutes an emergency since a similar case went before the court in the mid-1990s after lawmakers approved a financing package to build a new ballpark for the Seattle Mariners, Spitzer said. There was concern the team would be put up for sale unless the team got a new stadium.
Opponents tried to mount a referendum challenge but were blocked by the use of an emergency clause. The court ruled the Legislature had the right to declare it an emergency.
“Generally, since the stadium case, legislative bodies have had significant flexibility in declaring emergencies,” Spitzer said. “It’s relatively difficult to challenge an emergency clause today based on that case and some other cases.”
The “emergency” was that the Legislature needed to pass a budget. That’s been good enough for the courts before, it’ll be good enough for the courts now. So much for the legal acumen of the knee-jerk, anti-government crowd.
While their legal arguments are pathetic, it’s their rhetorical arguments that really piss me off. Richard Stephens, the coalition’s lead attorney disingenuously echoes the EFF’s patently specious double-speak by arguing that an initiative that barely passed over a decade ago in a low-turnout, off-year election is somehow carved in stone.
“Here’s something the people put into place by initiative and the Legislature undoes it and says the people don’t get to vote on it.”
What a load of crap.
First of all, “the people” have as much opportunity to “vote on it” as they do with any other issue. These anti-government business groups have a track record of getting their own special interest initiatives on the ballot, and they could always run an initiative to reinforce I-601, as Tim Eyman unsuccessfully tried in 2003. Their complaint is really over the fact that the emergency clause prevents them from running a referendum, which requires only half the signatures and thus half the cost. This lawsuit is about money.
Second… what the fuck is so special about I-601?
That $400 million they so desperately want to repeal is targeted mostly at funding the voter approved class size and teacher pay initiatives (I-728 and I-732 respectively.) As I’ve previously and eloquently written on the subject (“EFF supports state income tax!“) the argument that I-601 more clearly expresses the “will of the people” than I-728 or I-732, represents a twisted piece of ass-backwards logic:
Clearly, the EFF believes some voter-approved initiatives should be more inviolate than others. But their criteria for measuring the will of the people appears a bit backwards; examining the margins by which these initiatives passed, a pattern quickly emerges:
Year # Yes Votes 1993 I-601 774,342 (51%) 2000 I-728 1,714,485 (72%) 2000 I-732 1,501,261 (63%)Hmmm… so let me get this straight… according to the EFF, I-728, which passed by a landslide margin of 72% as recently as 2000, should be sacrificed in the name of I-601, which received nearly a million less votes, barely squeaking by with a 51% margin all the way back in 1993? So logically, I can only assume that the EFF believes that the older the initiative, and the fewer votes it received, the more it represents the true will of the people.
By that measure, I fully expect the EFF to join me in demanding that the Legislature honor the clear and indisputable will of the people, by fully implementing voter-approved Initiative 69… which enacted an income tax way back in 1932.
Let’s put this into perspective… when I-601 passed back in 1993, it garnered nearly 300,000 fewer votes than Eyman’s viciously stupid I-892 received in 2004, when it was trounced by a 62% to 38% margin.
Will of the people… my ass!
The Legislature did what the Legislature had to do, just to keep education funding at a bare minimum level, and if the EFF, BIAW and the others don’t like it, perhaps they should do a better job electing legislators, huh? Put Democrats in charge of the budget, and they’re going to fund the public services the voters want… you know, today’s voters… the folks who elected today’s Legislature… not 51% of some phantom, off-year electorate from way back in 1993. I know the EFF believes we’d all be better off home-schooling our kids or packing them off to private religious schools, rather than wasting taxpayer dollars on public education. So if they think that’s the “will of people”, why aren’t they urging Republicans to run on this platform in an effort to seize control of the Legislature in 2006?
Nahhh. It’s bad politics to be too honest about your agenda… especially when your true agenda is so godawful frightening.
Probably the most destructive precedent set in the battles over two stadiums has been the notion that an “emergency” is anything a 50% + 1 majority of a legislative body says it is. Spitzer may be right on the legal point, but as one of the architects of the trashing of our State Constitution’s prohibition on the lending of public credit and on the emasculation of the emergency clause, he has only himself to thank for the rise of Tim Eyman and the subsequent budget crisis our state faces.
Bravo, Mr. Goldstein, for your analysis on the proposed amendment to I-601 – it is refreshing to get the facts on the previous initiative numbers. The local news media would do well to do their homework, too and enlighten the voters instead of showcasing Mr. Eyman — the biggest snake oil salesman this state has ever seen.
Goldy–
Once again, the issue here is NOT ABOUT EYMAN. It is about the Initiative and the LEFTIST Legislator’s gutting it…repeatedly.
Emergency? I suppose it could be construed an emergency when your can-opener is broken and you really have your heart set on a can of soup.
I think “EMERGENCY” needs to be defined more clearly.
This lawsuit may accomplish that.
Is that a bad thing??
Cynical @3,
“Not about Eyman”…? That’s a lazy effort at misdirection… even from you. I used the word “and” a number of times too… surely you’re not suggesting my piece was about “and”…?
If my post was about anything, it was about I-601.
Like it or not, the Supreme Court has already defined the word “emergency” in the context in which it appears in the constitution, and if you don’t like it, try to get a constitutional amendment through to change it. This lawsuit will accomplish nothing except cost the state money and give the plaintiffs an excuse to whine to media about their political impotence.
I guess we’ll see won’t we Goldy?
Goldy, what happens if they vote against the legislature? You bloviate on what you surmise is the positive may come back and get you. What happened with Gregoire’s no new taxes promise? If they claim everything is an emergency, they watered the word down. If they say that you lose.
You are right about the will of the people until the people see their will change when the taxes start taking effect. They were voted in, but I can say the taxes suck. We do live in the US right?
Also if you say the will of the people why do you not take the Senat Democraps on with their silly unconstitutional filibuster of judges on. No where in the US Constitution are judge filibusters allowed. So do you agree for the will of the people, 55 Republicans, 44 democraps, and Jim Jeffords, why not the up and down vote for the past 214 years until the democraps start trying to say the minority should rule. Well why can’t the same argument be used in WA State? Hmmm…
Pudster
Successful or not the money spent will not be a waste at exposing the extreme left wings total disrespect for the people. Enjoy it all while you can for your majority will soon be gone. WA is becoming a RED state right before your eyes and you know it. It is coming. Are you prepared to bend over and take it?
“The lawsuit’s goal is to toss out $400 million in tax increases from the state budget, plunging the state into a financial crisis.”
Must not be too much of a crisis if they raised the budget by 12%, but hey what truth can simple logic hold?
PuddyLimbaugh
Democraps on with their silly unconstitutional filibuster of judges on.
But Article I, Section V of the Constitution gives the Senate authority to make its own rules. Current rules requiring 60 votes to end debate are not unconstitutional when applied to judicial nominees, as Republicans claim. They are undemocratic, but not unconstitutional.
http://www.freerepublic.com/fo.....8867/posts
How many lies does it take from you to be caught on for anyone to take you seriously.
the 9/11 report yesterday, The terror cells in the US, had as close as a relationship with Al Quaida as Iraq did. by your reasoning George W “the Butcher” supported Al Quaida because there were camps here.
I used to think your stuff had some substance, but Kinda like O’Reily and Rush…I figured out ..you just make up shit.
Not much chance of this becoming a red state. Still, it is a frightening enough prospect. The situation is bad enough with the wingnuts running the 2 branches of the national government and trying to “fix” the 3rd.
The truth of the matter is that Gregoire ran a lousy campaign trying to be a Gary Locke milquetoast candidate. I always vote Democratic, but I was so unenthusiastic about Gregoire that I had to go back and figure out if I really voted for her or perhaps voted for the Libertarian candidate as a protest. Now that she has proven to be a strong Democrat with real principles and not a wimp she would breeze to re-election. Wouldn’t that shut up the Rossi people?
This is a strong Democratic state. All of the candidates who ran as real democrats breezed to victory, except for Deborah Senn who possibly who had her own problems from the millions of out-of-state dollars and insurance money spent to defeat her.
Mckenna’s backers sure knew Senn needed to take her broom and leave town. She has been pushing the socialized hillary health care for so many years she pushed Regence & friends over the edge.
you think WA is a strong Dem state but most people thought the Dem party in this state was the old dem party (traditionaly for the average Joe). MOST now know that the Dem party in this state is the extreme left wing.
how could it be happening all over the nation except here? succumb
Hold on a second.
Turning over this initiative was a giant Fuck You to all the voters in this state.
Don’t start beating some drum about Republican/Democratic ideals.
The legislation jusy made it real clear. Your vote does not matter, your opinions are moot. We are going to do what we damn well please and you shoudl consider yourselves lucky that taxes were not more dramatically increased.
Didn’t the Boston Tea Party start over similar circumstances?
The truth of the matter is the Legislature and the gov-not only care about the will of the people is if it ensures their re-election. Wouldn’t they have put it up for a vote if they really cared to hear what we wanted? They are showing an extreme lack of respect to the individuals that slave to create their salaries. You can try to justify it by saying that the will of the people allowed them to do this because of past votes.Truth is that’s all just a smoke screen for the breakdown in our state between Legislature and taxpayers, and alot of pretty words arranged in a pretty manner by Goldy can’t change that.
How about telling us what law you would “write” that would allow for citizen iniatives, ones that would actually stand, not get overturned at some huge %rate.
I’m not part of the party that brought these lovely ideas (voter initiatives, referendums, recalls). I think those all came from good liberal democrats about 80 years ago. But they seem pretty nice to have…
Didn’t the Boston Tea Party start over similar circumstances?
No, the Boston Tea Party started because a monarchy was taxing people without representation. Washington State is not a British colony, we’re not under rule of the king, and we do have representation.
Dave @15,
We don’t have a king, but perhaps a monarchy and most certainly a recently coronated “queen”.
angryvoter, that’s just stupid. We do not have either.
Dave,
I really don’t consider the actions taken by this state as representation. Specifically, overturning initiatives for convenience.
You may not like the initiativeprocess but it is part of our constitution.
“No, the Boston Tea Party started because a monarchy was taxing people without representation. Washington State is not a British colony, we’re not under rule of the king, and we do have representation.”
Not 100% accurate, it is not a British colony, but last time I looked none of the taxes and spending recently instituted seem to represent my will or the will of my family and friends. maybe not a monarchy but couldn’t it be construed as a Oligarchy?
By the way The Boston Tea Party was over a 2% tax increase, I think another one is well overdue.
AV @ 15
right on. a queen no doubt that has many in the Govs office missing the hell out of Locke.
it seems Queen Crissy isn’t to popular, most duck and cover when they see her coming. Pitbull describes her style of Monarchy. Does the look in the first mans eyes tell you anything?
chardonnay @ 21
He looks like a beat dog in an animal shelter, you definitely know carries the whip and who takes the apple and squeals like a pig.
Has anyone checked the OFM to see if 1st Man is on the Govs personnel reports? Why would Mikey need his own office if he were only a volunteer? Funny isn’t it that those reports aren’t out. Hiding something? perhaps there are some election workers names on those reports.
I really don’t consider the actions taken by this state as representation. Specifically, overturning initiatives for convenience.
Your comparison to the Boston Tea Party is bogus, factually inaccurate and I’m fairly sure you knew this before you posted it. Otherwise please take a history class because there’s a good chance you missed something last time around.
You may not like the initiativeprocess but it is part of our constitution.
I never indicated my position on initiatives.
but last time I looked none of the taxes and spending recently instituted seem to represent my will or the will of my family and friends. maybe not a monarchy but couldn’t it be construed as a Oligarchy?
Being in the minority of those represented is not the same as having no representation.
Get your facts straight, guys. That’s all I ask.
So, basically, in order to keep an initiative from more than 10 years ago, which only won by 51%, you are willing to toss my disabled daughter and my two grandaughters 7 and 11, into the street because the state wiil not be able to help pay for their housing. Not to mention that they won’t be able to eat without food stamps, or have any kind of health care. Why? So “they can die and decrease the surplus population”? We work for WSU, and believe me not for very much money. We cannot afford to help them as much as the state does.The state does all this, with a little help from the US gov’ment. I say give them the money. Someday YOU may be in a similar circumstance.
shawn, don’t be a cry baby. No one is advoctaing throwing the disabled out on the streets. get a grip.
But how about the thousands and thousands that can walk, talk, see and hear that just work the system for all they can get? Tell me please why they cannot work and/or be a productive member of society?
shawn, are you being forced to work for WSU? I’d think you would have educated yourself into a better paying industry.
CharredBurntoutShell@28,
You were also the one wanting to take more money from dshs.
It looks like you want to hurt everyone that cant afford to help themselves, it does.
Are you happy, more and more children are being harmed, as there isnt enough money, and personel to address the problems?
Nasty spiteful trash, you are.
please donate to save the poor at
http://www.nonewgastax.com
prr: “The legislation jusy made it real clear. Your vote does not matter, your opinions are moot. We are going to do what we damn well please and you shoudl consider yourselves lucky that taxes were not more dramatically increased.”
Well, then, what about the will of the voters that keep electing the same folks over and over again? What message does that send? What message did the voters send with 728 & 732, which were HUGE unfunded mandates? Goldy picked up on some of it:
“Put Democrats in charge of the budget, and they’re going to fund the public services the voters want…”
The ultimate “will of the people” is throwing people out of office, but this state and its voters don’t do that, then complain when nothing ever changes. Where is all this “voter anger” re-election time?
Dave @ 24.
If you’d like to get into a historial debate I’d be more than happy to oblige.
You bring up a great point. It’s not a historically accurate comparrison, it’s far worse.
The Colonies were a business venture and were well aware of there situation.
We on the other hand are living under the assumption that our vote constitiutes an active and equal part of our states process. This is exactly why the initiative process is in our constitution, so that we as a collective voice have an equal part in this state and can contribute to what happens with our laws.
When this process is overthrown we have a responsibility to fight back and stand up for our rights.
This past few years have been very trying in our state. While I cannot speak for anyone but myself, there have been some clear signals that the voters in this state and what our collective voice has proposed is readily dismissed by our legislature and our Gorvernor.
Overturning I-601 was a slap in all our faces.
Jon @ 32
The proposal that voters elected our officials is at debate as well
How long ago was the Mariner stadium case? Are the same judges on the Supreme Court?
Liking it….
No shit
But how about the thousands and thousands that can walk, talk, see and hear that just work the system for all they can get? Tell me please why they cannot work and/or be a productive member of society?
Why do they have to work and be productive?? Why must your way be the only way this society must function(or as All tools claims in #19 mandating tax laws must pass through him and his family)? Why must you insist that you are the arbitrator of what categories of disabilities determine the ajudication of benefits(walk, talk, see, and hear leaves out a whole host of DH, SDH, DD, etc issue)?? Why are you insisting that “better paying” represents some value judgement regarding what is essential”good” versus less paying being not good? I am just curious…
prr: “The proposal that voters elected our officials is at debate as well”
My point is all that “anger” out there should translate into huge wins for the challengers in election campaigns (and I considered Gregoire essentially running for re-election). It doesn’t because, pardon the illustration, the voters have their collective heads in a very dark and confined space.
I should PS my post @ 38 with that I don’t fault the voters going for Democrats; I fault them for voting for initiatives that cut taxes (695 & 747) and then turn around and vote for measures that will force tax increases (728 & 732) while at the same time re-electing folks not known for cutting taxes and services, and all the while complaining about the size of state government.
Shawn Paulson @ 27
“We cannot afford to help them as much as the state does.The state does all this, with a little help from the US gov’ment. I say give them the money.”
No, you say give “YOU” the money because ultimately isn’t that where it’s going? By the way you should thank Chardonay, Prr, and myself as we fund your children’s living expenses through our hard earned tax dollars.
I also agree with Chardonay that you need to either find a new job or ask for a raise as it is “YOUR” responsibility to provide for “YOUR” children not ours.
I am not heartless, I just prefer to choose where my charity dollars go.
pudster @ 6 You should get your facts straight and maybe start bellowing against the Republicans. They were the first to use ‘dirty tactics’ or ‘filibuster techniques’ back in Johnson’s presidency against Fortas. You redzone players sure know how to pick your background facts without looking for the truth.
prr and chardonnay You must be right, there is no emergency. To hell with schools, education, transportation etc. Maybe we can balance the budget by cutting all government support for the red counties, or place a huge tax on laxatives….as you and your side seem to be the ones that are ‘continually constipated’ with the 21’st century’s facts of life
All tools here and yet there are still screws loose @ 22, your description fits 93.5% of all male wingnuts (and also chardonnay)
jpgee: From the US Senate web site here
“Fortas became the first sitting associate justice, nominated for chief justice, to testify at his own confirmation hearing. Those hearings reinforced what some senators already knew about the nominee. As a sitting justice, he regularly attended White House staff meetings; he briefed the president on secret Court deliberations; and, on behalf of the president, he pressured senators who opposed the war in Vietnam. When the Judiciary Committee revealed that Fortas received a privately funded stipend, equivalent to 40 percent of his Court salary, to teach an American University summer course, Dirksen and others withdrew their support. Although the committee recommended confirmation, floor consideration sparked the first filibuster in Senate history on a Supreme Court nomination.”
Excuse me, the Fortas nomination was derailed because of his actions & shady dealings, not his ideology. Robert Bork’s nomination derailment was the first one based on ideology, which has continued to this day.
I’m restating goldy’s argument, but I just don’t get the arguments I’ve seen above…
When a 12 year old initiative is overruled, it’s ignoring the will of the people.
But when a 5 year old initiative is ignored by the legislature, it’s somehow ok?
Why is the 12 year old initiative somehow better than the 5 year old one? Because the 12 year old initiative restrained spending but the 5 year old one forced spending, and since all spending is bad, the one that reduces spending is somehow “better” than the one that increases spending?
Or is it because the 12 year old initiative was sponsored by an ex Republican candidate for governer while the 5 year old one was sponsored by a teachers union?
Larry @ 46: Your post illustrates the problem of budgeting by initative. I think both 601 & 732/728 were bad initatives, and for that matter, any of the Eyman tax ones. That’s why you elect a governor and legislature in the first place; it their job to set a budget. If you don’t like it, throw ’em out.
Jon @ 47
that’s the goal hopefully the judge will see it our way.
Struck a nerve. Goldy hmmm, you don’t like it when anyone challenges a larger government.
Privately, most of us have to work within budgets. Has it occured to you Goldy that maybe many people in this state simply feel that the government should function with the income that it already receives?
Maybe the people want the government to cut back on a few luxuries, to keep within the current budget rather than simply raising taxes to do everything that it wants to do and more.
Goldy;
May I remind you of something – I-728 proponents said in 2000 to the voters thru the voter’s pamphlet: “We can afford to invest in our schools and our future without raising taxes or taking money away from other programs”.
As far as I-732: “With a $1.1 billion surplus, let’s use existing resources for more competitive salaries.”
Try that on for side.
Jeez just shut up and pay your taxes…don’t worry you selfish assholes…Bush is leaving your Children in debt to care of you and all the things you demand……get a grip, things cost more. more means more money for same services.
And all of you so Kind to the guy with the disabled child.
GO fuck yourselfs and the charities that you probably don’t even give to.
I do believe the Trolls here when they say they donate to charities………ie…..ME, MYSELF and I. I think the state government should just let the roads go to hell, let the schools slip even further behind the norm, give away free ciggarettes to all trolls, cut medical assistance, let the abandoned 3 year olds fend for themselves, build 50 nuclear reactors in eastern washington farmlands, build puddy’s stainless steel nuclear reactor in the middle of puget sound, and tax the hell out of Mr. Cynical’s profits from his last (must admit, good choice C.) stock market stroll
also, sell automatic weapons to anyone over the age of 5, eliminate abortion completely and just let the unwanted fend for themselves, eliminate all taxes on alcohol, outlaw the use of condoms, ship everyone that cannot take care of themselves to spokane county, close our borders to canadians, outlaw washingtonians from purchasing anything in oregon, eliminate any vehichle that gets more than 5 miles per gallon of gas…
The notion that the GOP is stalwart in the face of growing government is laughable. The difference is that the GOP will use what largesse is available not to support the less fortunate, or to correct injustices, but instead to pander to moralists that want to impose their agenda via government. Jacob Weisberg says it much better than I can here:
Interest-Group Conservatism
George Bush’s philosophy of government.
An excerpt:
True, the clients, patrons, and causes are different. Instead of the Children’s Defense Fund pushing to fully fund Head Start, we now have church-affiliated social service agencies lobbying to have faith-based drug treatment funded by HHS. Instead of Sen. Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts promoting a hate-crimes bill endorsed by the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, it’s Sen. Wayne Allard of Colorado introducing a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage on behalf of James Dobson’s Focus on the Family. Instead of the Environmental Protection Agency proposing higher air-quality standards, it’s the Federal Communications Commission levying fines and threatening broadcast licenses on the basis of profanity and indecency.
DANW @ 52
I just told the guy to provide for what he created, how am I wrong?
Just so you know I support charities like church run welfare that actually requires the recipient do a service to earn the money/ food. I also donate to childrens hospitals and cancer hospitals 3 out of 4 times I am in a grocery store. When was the last time you gave a charitable donation to any cause other that the poor destitude teachers of WA fund.
prr@33
Overturning I-601 was a slap in all our faces.
Comment by prr
A slap in 51% of our faces.
Like shrub, a slap in 49% of our faces.
Raise taxes to buy more Democrat union hack votes [like DanW]! [Atlas has Shrugged!]
Goldy and the other Numbnuts–
I spoke with 2 County Auditors–
Of the 15 felons the Dems gave them on their list….10 had their rights restored and 2 of the other 5 are still in limbo.
So much for Berendt’s steely accuracy!
tj—eat shit and die
The Dems are frantically scouring for more #’s
Look at the records requests tj.
All initiatives are bad.
They do one thing without care/consequence for all the related factors.
Government by initiative is wrongheaded and detrimental to the well being of the state.
It’s a shame that it’s as easy as it is for Eyman to say “Check Here to Pay Less Taxes” and then it happens.
The Eyman supporters should rejoice as they sit in horrendous traffic. It’s their use of the initiative that has turned Washington from a leading state toward backwaterness. Congrats initiative supporters…you have made us all reap what you have wrought.
Just think if we had a similar initiative process at the federal level:
DO YOU WANT TO INVADE IRAQ? VOTE YES OR NO.
Hey, repubs, how would you like that?
Jeff B @49,
My beef is that this debate is incredibly dishonest. That’s always been my beef… from the early days of the Horse’s Ass thing, when the media first started giving me attention I hadn’t (yet) earned.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, what I want is a public debate over the proper size and scope of government… not this bullshit subterfuge that the right has been using for the past few decades to get the smaller government without ever having the debate. This is a debate we need to have, and it is a debate I believe progressive Democrats will win… but if we don’t, well… the people will have spoken and there’s not much we can do about that.
But the right won’t have this debate, because Goldwater tried to sell it and failed. Instead they only argue half the equation: taxes. This is dishonest and irresponsible, and they know it.
Good comment Gody @ 62. Too bad you weren’t here in your childhood, I am sure you would have loved my show.
The reason to support this suit is that there was no emergency requiring these tax increases, these guys lied when they called it an emergency and they should not be allowed to do that. It may be possible to justify the gas tax as an emergency (viaduct and 520 ready to collapse, etc.) but certainly not the other tax increases. Here’s how the Democrats justify calling this an emergency, per the Times article:
“Democratic lawmakers yesterday said they used an emergency clause because they had a budget to pass and there was no way the Republicans would help pass tax increases.
“We had to get the budget done and we needed to raise revenue to get the budget that we wanted to pass out. We couldn’t wait,” House Majority Leader Lynn Kessler, D-Hoquiam, said.”
You’d think the “Progressives” would be all for this lawsuit. After all, the Democrats just got away with making our tax system even more regressive than it already was, and you guys are against that, right? By declaring an “emergency”, the Democrats proved how cynical and dishonest they always are when it comes to raising taxes. Sorry, Progressives, no referendum allowed to try to push for some actual tax reform.
Goldy, go ahead and have your debate about the size and scope of government. Just don’t be surprised when the Democrats running this state lie to you during the debate. “Size and scope of government” means something a little different to these greedy lying bastards than it does to the rest of us. To them it means feeding the special interest groups who get them elected and nothing more.
wow zip, according to your description, the democrats running this state must really be card carrying republicans.
psyder @ 37
what a load of BS. your mantra “who are we to judge” is an old lame excuse for welfare fraud. you must be an under achiever or lazy yourself. OR a guvmn’t worker.
Jon @ 47, Tom @ 60
You guys are blurring over the difference between an initiative and a referendum. The Democrats cynical lying maneuver was designed to thwart a referendum and nothing more.
jppatches@63–
Behind Goldy’s sweet demure facade was a little 5 year-old who would have sucker punched you in the nuts you goofy clown!
pj gee at 43
again the same old lame argument. “what about schools, education and transp…” (schools/education= same thing) we all gladly fund that stuff. It’s the able bodied lazy free loaders that need to get off their butts and DO SOMETHING! Volunteer for the tens of thousands of dollars in benefits they recieve on the backs of the people who work hard everyday. Parks dept could use help, libraries, schools, day cares, welfare office, LOL maybe do some chores around the project housing units. Oh no heaven forbid they should mow their own grass. Lets teach them personal responsibility and maybe the crime in all the govn’t created housing projects will decrease.
dan W @ 52
are you ok? man you musta had a bad day at that union job today. sorry dude.
drivel @ 53
there is plenty of tax money to go around. you will be weaned off public assistance slowly. someone from work source will be contacting you.
This is only the beginning in law suits on these SOB tax happy democrats. Emergency my ass, it is an emergency to get them all raises with zero Accountability! Just like their So called Election reforms.
Even their highest gas tax raise in history has people starting initiatives.
http://www.nonewgastax.com/
Check it out! They are coming your way in droves thatns to tax to the max Gregoire!
I signed it already, donated too. did you order a petition to get signatures? I think I will just advertise their web site on the back of my SUV. LOL
#15 said Washington State is not a British colony, we’re not under rule of the king, and we do have representation.
Yes, yes and not really.
A minimum step toward assuring representation would be to require that all local, state and federal candidates finance their campaigns using only funds donated by people living in the candidates potential jurisdiction.
AllAss&NoYoda @ 30
You need a new shtick, man. That bit is getting worn out. Your ears are too long and your skin is wet and blue–Yoda is green, bud! And he has one cane, not two white crutches with red tips. Stop living in the movies–Hollywood will rot your brain. Look what it did to Whoopi, BahBah and Michael Moron (oh, a special thanks to him for saving us from John-boy).
Jon @ 38 “the voters have their collective heads in a very dark and confined space.”
I agree. There is one major difference you have to take into account. City dwellers often think the answer to any problem is to throw more (of other peoples’) money at it. Government is not only the most ineffective solution to a problem, it is also the most inefficient method. Locals in rural and suburban ares tend to think it out, then get together and work it out together. They know money isn’t always the answer. BUt somehow they are also included in the ones who must keep paying for the city dwellers’ wants, needs and mistakes. The Cascade Curtain does exist, my friend.
Chardonnay,
Yes I did sign and I am printing up signs now!
the cascade curtain is going up, thank you king ron sims. without his CAO we may never have broken free. this time people are mad enough to get it done.
http://www.cascadecounty.kendra.com
GS,
right on. these radicals need to know the real meaning of radical. there’s gonna be a new sheriff in town, SOON.
GS,
right on. these radicals need to know the real meaning of radical. there’s gonna be a new sheriff in town, SOON.
Um, if you mean safe mainstream corporate friendly Dino Rossi – NO (even if they do hold a new election, which won’t happen).
As to someone who can knock off Sims, if you think Irons is A) radical or B) capable of beating Sims countywide, keep doing that whole faith-based thing you sheeple do so well…
SeattleSuckFest@75,
Funny, condotta and parlette, were much happier about the budget, once the got some money thrown at their district.
Guess you musta had your head in a dark place that day.
the only common thread in the repugs., is follow the party line.
Oh, sorry, did you actually have something to say, or were you just trolling up the crackwhores butt?
“”theres gonna be a new sherriff in town””
thats rich!!
Come next election, you’re gonna find out just how blue the state of washington is.
LOL, you guys are sounding desperate. I like it. It looks good on you.
AllHatAndNoHorse @ 81
I think the only thing “blue” about this state is the voters balls, they are so ready to shoot their votes for the Republicans so that they can reverse all the BS spending and taxing the Demoasses have instituted.
I live in Rural King County, I paid damn good money for my land, every acre of it, I maintain it daily, I know every inch of it, I pay taxes on ALL of it, and I will continue to be the SOLE OWNER of it!
I have had only one instance of needing help from King County on my land. I will not ask again! The gutters on the side of the adjacent major road, and I do mean the aluminum drainage pipes under their road placed for specifically for runoff from their major road, were plugged! The runoff from the whole upper street and road system was diverted by a plugged aluminum pipe on their property was now running onto my property. When I noticed that my land was getting wet, I called King County! Could I get an individual from the county to come out and clean out their plugged aluminum pipe that ran under their road. No, I got two people and they weren’t drivin in no yugo! They were in one hell of a big brand new F350 4wd gas hog! Was their a shovel in that rig to clean out a simple drain? No, they both looked it over and scratched their heads and because all their water had diverted temporarily to my property, they turned it in for further study as a potential wetlands!
Suffice it to say with no help at all from them, two shovel fulls of dirt removed from their roadside gutter, and their road side water runnoff is again running through their existing road drainage system!
Ron Sim’s is driving around in a Stretch Limo, most county road workers are running around in F350 Type empty trucks with 2 people on board!
You libs want to preach to us about our habits and take our land,
Come step into the shoes of a farmer, grab your ass and a shovel and spend installing fence posts! It will do you some good!
I suggest you will not find better more considerate people in America to have as neighbors, I certainly would not trade one of them for a whole block of city libs!
I suggest y’all take Ron Sims in to learn a bit more “Home (oops) Country training” before you put your troops out CAO Land stealing.
these liberal queens digging fence posts holes? now thats funny. GS, you think they sell ergonomic shovels at home depot? maybe they would need a LEFT handed shovel. LOL
Chardonnay,
They could ride their vespa’s out to Rural King County and we could have a hell of a Rodeeeeeooooo for them!
We’ll save a large parking place for Ron Sim’s gas guzzlin Limo, and we’ll keep the lights on for em!
I was downtown a few months ago and I got behind ronny in his limo. what a joke just to go to the Mt Baker neighborhood. he is such a drama queen.
I think he and algore go to the same universal unitarian environmentalist church.
Chardonnay,
Yeh he rides in a stretch limo and preaches the Sound transit – Bus goin – No Drivin – Start Bussing – try carpoolin – Anybody ever hear of LEAD BY EXAMPLE!!!!! na Kerry probably came in his private jet, Ron drives in his limo……..Gregoire probably has a private jet, limo and chopper – Yep You libs keep telling us the core values of the left!
I’m a waitin!
Goldy,
The real issue is not whether it is good politics to repeal I-601 or to otherwise increase spending. Instead, it is whether or not the legislature measure is subject to a referendum.
If the GOP takes control of the legislature in the 2006 or 2008 elections, it could pass a by a simple majority to repeal I-728 and I-732, which were approved in 2000 by the voters. An initiative or referendum only needs a 2/3 majority to be repealed or amended within two years of its approval.
And the GOP could likewise include an emergency clause in any legislation repealing I-728 and I-732. Just like it could in the case of a right-to-work law being passed, or the repeal of the Growth Management Act.
If the GOP dared to include such an emergency clause in divisive GOP legislation, trying to prevent a referendum from being held, I would imagine that you would be screaming bloody murder.
Loose screw @ 40
“By the way you should thank Chardonay, Prr, and myself as we fund your children’s living expenses through our hard earned tax dollars.”
You twit! Chardonnay doesn’t declare her income! She is a two bit hooker hanging out around Pioneer Square.
chardonnay @ 70….great, who will it be? Your Pimp?
dj @ 90
you sad little liberal, you have nothing to say today. you really represent your party well.
drivel @ 91
they will need to know your qualifications. start writing them down NOW. It shoud only take you a sec.
Chardonnay @ 92
“. . . you really represent your party well. “
Thanks. . . but I am not a member of a party.
BTW Chardonnay here is a money making opportunity for you. Show up at Drinking Liberally next week. I’ll bet those liberals will cough up $5 or $10 for you to sit in a corner and keep your mouth shut. It’d be a lot easier way for you to earn money than giving 25 cent blowjobs on Pioneer Square.
Thank all of you for your support of our disabled daughter and young granddaughters. Those who actually understand that this is really a problem, thank you, especially. We pay taxes just as much as anyone else does.
Chardonnay, I am terribly sorry that when Yahweh was giving out empathy, sympathy, and the milk of human kindness, you were in another room signing a petition against taxes. It must be very difficult for you.
Richard @89,
The bill was declared an emergency measure so that they could pass a balanced budget immediately, as opposed to waiting 90 days. I am sure the fact that it prevented it from being subject to a referendum was a bonus for many legislators… but that was not the reason it was declared an emergency.
And if the R’s should take one-party control of the state government, even by the slimmest of minorities, don’t believe for minute they won’t ram through whatever the hell they damn please, without the slightest regard for the Democrats. And let’s be honest on another thing… with Hargrove and Sheldon in there, the Dems really didn’t control the Senate, now did they? This idea that the Dems abused their majority is ridiculous, especially when you look at the large number of bipartisan votes, particularly in the House.
Hey Shawn’s wife: My heart goes out to you. That must be tough. We all need to give but you can’t legislate human behavior. And you can’t tax anyone to give, as people will resent it. What do you think the first thing Dino will do? Performance Audits!!!!
Now before you accuse me of anything we (wife and I) gave way more >$10,000 to charity each year for the last 10 years (H&R Block does our taxes) and we support two foreign children in the Dominican Republic and Panama. How many of you sent more than $500 to Tsunami efforts? So everyone consider what you say in response.
Pudster