As most of you probably remember, four men from Newburgh, New York were arrested a few weeks back after they took part in what they thought was a plot to blow up a synagogue in the Bronx. Instead, the bombs were fake, and the ringleader of the operation was a government informant trying to mitigate his own legal troubles.
The cable news shows made a huge deal about the arrest as if it were some chilling reminder of the dangers of homegrown terrorism, but the reality was that without the informant, these four morons couldn’t have plotted to change a light bulb. The “leader” was being paid in weed by the informant and was high when they got arrested. Another of the four was described by his own sister as being “the dumbest person on this earth”. And a third one had previously been judged insane in an immigration hearing. This was nothing more than a desperate and persistent man trying to work a deal with cops finding whatever patsies he could dreg up in order to give police some “bigger fish”.
It’s hard to have sympathy for anyone who would even go along with a plot to blow up a synagogue (or any other place with innocent people inside), but I’m also not afraid of people like the Newburgh four. People that stupid and gullible are far more likely to be a threat to themselves than anyone else. And as Zachary Roth writes, it leads to some questions about how useful it is to do this in the first place:
Let’s be clear about what all this might and might not add up to. If these men were willing to go through with planting what they believed to be deadly bombs — as they appear to have been — then they should be charged, and, if convicted, sentenced to jail-time. (Their lawyers, of course, will likely claim entrapment, and it’ll be up to a judge and jury to weigh that claim after hearing all the evidence.)
But the emerging evidence that “Maqsood” aggressively targeted these men, and may have convinced them to participate in the plot only by offering them money and gifts, raises a different question: is pursuing “plots” that may well never have existed in the first place were it not for the work of a government informant, really the most effective way for the federal government to spend its finite terror-fighting resources?
I think what we should do is take some folks who’ve been arrested for various offenses like fraud and tax evasion and allow them to mitigate their sentences by going into churches around the country and recruiting disaffected crazies who would be willing to help them blow up a Planned Parenthood office. Then, after we bust like 4 or 5 “terrorist plots” in middle America, we can ask that question again.
There are inchoate terror cells in every fundie church in America! All you need is inducement! Promise these guys 40 virgins and they’ll die for you! Money works, too. So does OxyContin.
Yeah, you can find them at any muslim mosque in America,Arkansas state is good place to start your little test, oh, but wait it has started already.Screw you and all your thoughtless lefty’s. Maybe next time it’ll be your state.Then let the whining start.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/......shooting/.
What Lee is saying, for those who don’t want to read his whole post, is that you can’t prosecute someone for a plot. One can only convict someone after they have carried out the plot, but not before.
@3
That’s not even true, let alone what the point of this post is.
Please don’t try to speak for me again.
Ok. I take it back.
We ought to be more worried about what is happening in SEATTLE! The number of murders, rapes and robberies in Seattle all increased in 2008 over the previous year.
@6
Um, don’t you think Lee knows that? What do you think he was trying to distract you from?
@7
Ahhhh, you’re on to me! Rats!
Damn, how democrat of seattle.
I’ll bet all four were wearing Obama for Pres tshirts.
In fact its Obamas fault.
Obama has really turned out to be the worst president EVER and it only took 4 months. God help us.
@12
You need to share whatever you’re smoking with the rest of us.
@3 Who appointed you to be Lee’s spokesperson? That’s not what Lee said, but you’re too stupid to figure it out.
What Lee isn’t telling everyone is that: All four were Muslims. They admitted that they wanted to commit “jihad.” They all thought the bombs they planted in front of the synagogues were real. And they said they wanted to do harm to America because of the war in Afghanistan.
Yet Lee says “I’m also not afraid of people like the Newburgh four.”
Synagogue bombings and anti-semitism is real. The list of synagogue bombings around the world is long. I encourage people to google synagogue bombings. Here’s a twin synagogue bombing that happened in Istanbul just back in 2003 that killed 20 and injured 257.
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4404_13.htm
What Lee has to say sides more with the defendants family and defense team.
@13 Lee, you don’t want what mark is smoking. It’s bad shit.
@15 If stupidity was against the law, you’d be in jail with them.
@15
That’s right. I’m not afraid of them. That’s what separates you from me. I’m not a bedwetter who’s terrified of everyone and everything.
And that’s why we make fun of you.
Would all you Obama bashers (Republicans) and Bush bashers (Democrats) just shut the f**k up. You’re all retarded. You’re just crips and bloods. It doesn’t matter what Obama does, the right ring nuts hate him, they hated him before he said a word or signed the first bill with his pen and they will always bitch and moan about him. Bush was personally responsible for everything bad that happened in America to the left too. There’s 300 million people in America, you’re all arguing by anecdote every time someone does something bad. Look, here’s a bad person that did something wrong, and he belonged to party X, therefore that PROVES that party X is evil. SHUT UP! The right wing “anti-govment” nuts behind the worst domestic terrorism attack in our history (Oklahoma City) doesn’t prove all Republicans are evil. Because some radical conservative Muslim religious zealot kills a recruiter, that doesn’t make the left evil (though come to think of it, how is a far right wing super religious person a “lefty”…he wasn’t some peace and love hippy but a dumb angry violent religious nut…whatever).
Dumb violent people are bad…period. I don’t care WHAT party or religion they belong too! They ALL think they’re the GOOD guys. The 9/11 hijackers thought THEY were the moral ones. The Oklahoma City bombers thought THEY were doing good. The KKK thinks THEY are on the right side when they kill a black, Jew or gay. Every woman that was murdered as a “witch” was murdered by someone priest/minister who thought he was the good guy. The point? Those who murder like this are all crazy. You can’t argue with them because they THINK they’re on the right side, they think they’re the GOOD guys. The irony on that is off the charts.
Hmm… Am I the only one thinking that the FBI might want to spend a little more time looking at people with known ties to terrorist organizations, a hatred of government and that’s OK with doctors being killed?
Yep, time to open up a file on Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs!
It’s a shame about Dobbs, he’s always been a bit of a nutter, but his heart used to be in the right place.
#19 – Kinda good point. How are radical right wing zealot Muslims somehow linked with the Democrats as opposed to the Republicans? They’re essentially the KKK, just Muslim not Christian. They both hate Jews, homosexuals and “non-believers” (in their religion). The Muslims extremists are just the “Republicans’ of the Muslim religion. The Sufi’s would be the Democrats of the Muslim religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism)….LOL ;-)
In all seriousness, I agree with #19, enough with the “this proves all Democrats/Republicans are evil”. That’s a horrible and childish way of thinking. All Jews/gay/Muslim/Christians/Democrats/Republicans/blacks/Irish/hispanics/asians are not evil. 99% of people on Earth just want peace and to raise their children in a happy environment. Unfortunately that still leaves about 6 million absolutely crazy bastards who just want to destroy.
@21
Yep!
Uh.. Shades of Billo there. Sorry there’s a little thing called the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.
And no one here takes orders from authoritarians.
The Republican party by the numbers is rapidly declining. It is now the party of basically angry white males, two of which, Limbaugh and Gringrich are its all too white, male and angry spokespeople.
This country will be “majority” “minority” in 2042. Any “minority” group you can name voted overwhelmingly for Obama last November yet the Republicans continue to pander to its angry white male base.
The Republicans appear doomed.
Oh here’s another belligerent, bellicose white male Republican who’s had a change of heart:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....8;refer=us
NOW HE TELLS US!!
The image of Lee as Alfred E Newman is hard to resist. Take way the beard, add a crooked tooth, some freckles ……
Obviously Lee means well, but I suspect he does nto read a lot of European news or have many friends in France or Holland (esp. Jewish friends). The major reason for concern about what happened in NY is the much larger problem of what is happening in France, Holland and England. How does Lee think French Jews feel attending synagogues that must be guarded by men with machine guns? Does he think Ali Hirsh, now a Dutch citizen, feels safe in Amsterdam?
Even the most liberal of my pot smoking Dutch friends is no longer comfortable with Holland’s post war tradition of multiculturalism.
They know .. thanks to va Gogh, Ali Hirsch and others that ignoring the problem or hiding behind a sweet smelling fog of political correctness is no more constructive than over reaction in the other direction.
What is especially frightening is that these would be perps are not foreigners who brought their biases here. These are a home grown crop of racists who would make perfect foils for something really scary.
Nor does it help much to equate these guys with the KKK or their modern posse commitatus descendants. We certainly do not need more kinds of hate mongery in the USA.
@24
They were dupes and fools that got used by an informant that wanted to make money off the government. The FBI went for it, while it left people that were facing real threats to twist in the wind.
What you’re talking about is very real and very scary, but the plot in question here has not a thing to do with it.
Better question:
doesn’t pursuing such plots by creating them anew place us all at greater risk?
What if the unthinkable were to happen? What if these “stupidest people in the world” were to actually surprise their handler by taking some unexpected initiative and killing some innocent citizens? And while the FBI spends our limited tax dollars paying an informant to custom build domestic terrorists from scratch, a law abiding citizen is gunned down in his own church by the real domestic terrorists already among us.
I bet ya anything Lee is one of those Mumia Abu-Jamal supporters.
@19 If you don’t like the discourse here, don’t read it! If you stumbled on two packs of dogs tearing each other’s throats out, would you lecture them on civility? Why?! My advice is, mind your own business and let nature take its course! Let them kill each other! Dogs are useless. The more dogs are dead, the more room there is for rabbits!
Everything we know so far about the Little Rock shooter suggests he was a nutcase with an assault rifle. How many times have we seen this scenario before in schools, on campuses, in cafeterias, etc.? So the relevant question is, who put that assault rifle in his hands? Ask yourself which political ideology and party is in favor of unrestricted private gun ownership and you’ll know who is responsible for the murder of the Army recruiter.
@24 SJ, we know there are some dangerous nuts living among us. So what’s the solution? Arm everyone? I’ve been saying for years that LIBERALS MUST ARM because the haters are already armed to their eyeballs and being able to defend ourselves may be the only thing that will keep ’em polite. We can’t solve the problem by trying to legislate away craziness.
“Alleged killer of abortion doctor had history of mental illness, family says.”
http://www.kansascity.com/842/story/1228553.html
@31 The headline writer got it wrong. The article says he had a history of “mental health problems,” not “mental illness.” They’re not the same thing.
In any case, I ask, so what? Osama bin Laden is nuts, but knew what he was doing, did it for political reasons, and is culpable. Same with this guy. And probably also with the Little Rock shooter. These guys all have issues, but so does every insecure rightwinger in America who needs a Bible-thumping, brimstone-belching preacher as a crutch. What’s your point? That rightwing assassins are crazy? We already knew that.
You righties are so right: Fear is a great political tactic.
Now we can get people to fear a real threat: –Religious Fundamentalists of any stripe are the threat. And, since we know the mainstream press won’t do it, the blogosphere will whip up a storm and the MSM will jump on board for the profits.
Today’s Political Math Lesson
Wacko + Assault Rifle = Wingnut
A google news search for “george tiller” returns over 7,600 hits.
A google news search for the recruiter “william long” that was killed by a muslim terrorist yesterday returns 649 hits.
The liberal media is making their agenda very clear.
Maybe gbs can chime in and explain how the left supports the troops.
After promising a different administration from the last one, no more secrets, transparency transparency transparency.
WASHINGTON (AP) – White House spokesman Robert Gibbs is declining to say what it cost for President Barack Obama and his wife, Michelle, to eat dinner and take in a play in New York over the weekend.
Change
Not this time. Same as the last president.
How many servicemen have been murdered in the united states by a muslim terrorist.
Shouldn’t this be news.
Why is the liberal media trying to ignore the story.
I’m with the obama. let out the detainees from gitmo. What could it hurt to have a few more muslim terrorists running loose in america. After all, it’s not as if they are attacking democrats.
Why won’t the liberal media even point out when the obama is blatantly lying with provable facts…
I am proud to be the first President to appoint openly LGBT candidates to Senate-confirmed positions
Yet…
President Clinton…
San Francisco Board of Supervisors Member Roberta Achtenberg
Is obama this clueless or is the liberal media this in the tank for him. Or [C], both of above.
A gallup poll explains why people like steve & gbs are homophobic bigots.
Knowing Someone Gay/Lesbian Affects Views of Gay Issues
@39 Does the poll explain why you fuck goats?
Tuesday, June 02, 2009
Excellent. Put someone that knows nothing about business into the position of making important decisions. We all know how this is going to work out.
The 31-Year-Old in Charge of Dismantling G.M.
WASHINGTON — It is not every 31-year-old who, in a first government job, finds himself dismantling General Motors and rewriting the rules of American capitalism.
But that, in short, is the job description for Brian Deese, a not-quite graduate of Yale Law School who had never set foot in an automotive assembly plant until he took on his nearly unseen role in remaking the American automotive industry.
…
Mr. Deese’s role is unusual for someone who is neither a formally trained economist nor a business school graduate, and who never spent much time flipping through the endless studies about the future of the American and Japanese auto industries.
The obama appointed someone with little knowledge, zero training and zero experience.
Priceless.
Priceless assuming you don’t have children or grandchildren. For them the debt they owe is already astronomical.
Nope, no answer in the Gallup poll. So tell us, Marvin, why do you fuck goats?
Speaking of doctor murdering, goatfucking wingnuts, Republican Neal Horsely used to post a list of abortion providers on his internet site. When a doctor was murdered, he’d scratch his name off the list. You all remember Neal, don’t you? He’s the Republican who not only wants abortion providers murdered, he also proudly fucks mules, washing machines and watermelons.
http://www.newshounds.us/2005/.....htwing.php
Today’s Republican? Besides being into torture and starting misbegotten war, they’re into fucking farm animals and murdering doctors. These people, people like Marvin, have some real fucking issues.
Rasmussen Alert!!
Today’s Daily Tracking Poll shows President Obama to be at +5 in the Presidential Approval Index. OMG! This is an increase of 400% in just the last two weeks!
My fucking goats is all in your imagination.
Unless you have some proof you would like to post.
You see steve, you are a liar. Plain and simple.
I proved you were a homophobic bigot using your own words.
Sucks for you that someone you look down upon exposed you as the bigot you are.
And let me admit, it wasn’t hard to do. All I had to do was give you the opportunity to be real.
Steve, have you ever read what you wrote?
You specifically said calling me a “faggot” wasn’t to belittle gays, but to belittle me. Only a big-time bigot would write something admitting that they are trying to belittle someone by calling them a “faggot.”
Did you learn how to be a bigot from your parents or is it something you accomplished on your own? Did daddy touch you? Did uncle touch you? What happened in your childhood to teach you that it’s okay to be a bigot?
What Marvin????
Do you REALLY fuck goats!
WOW…such an adventurous old coot! Whoo would have known…
You believe a proven bigot like steve?
I thought even you were a little smarter than that.
Say, how do YOU feel about steve calling people “faggot?” Is that progressive or what.
I would ask you to denounce him for his bigotry but you probably share the same bigoted views.
@37
There’s around 7,000 hits.
http://news.google.com/news?pz.....++shooting
You fuck “faggot” goats?
My God, man…just what kind of monster ARE you????
If this is the best you’ve got that’s sad.
Can’t you do anything besides parrot the words of a bigot?
I’m guessing you vote democrat.
Whose bias is showing, Morbid Marvin? Why – yours, of course!
Results 1 – 10 of about 742,000 for soldier murdered in Arkansas. (0.17 seconds)
http://www.google.com/search?h.....&aqi=
…….
@30 RRabbit
I certainly did NOT say anthing about legislation.
What I did say is that religious tolerance ought not be an excuse for tolerating extremism. Liberals, for their part, are too willing to tolerate Islam, despite the obvious problems, while going nuclear against the Catholic Church. The rabid right claims the right to undermine science because God said …..
What ticks me off about Lee and others like him is that they are as fanatic about their beliefs as the rabid righties are about theirs.
The sad thing is that a lot of the folks one might hope would be rational, the Dawkins cult as one example, seem to have their own form of orthodoxy.
So, THE CONSTRUCTIVE QUESITION IS what can the US do? A good start might be some fucking education about extremist religions. How to get there from here? I dunno.
Damn, that Marvin’s stranger than I thought. I did think it odd that he couldn’t let go of this “faggot” thing. Yes, it starts to make some sort of sense now. Hmm, goats, faggots, dead doctors – I wonder where the fuck he’s going with all this?
@42 “Put someone that knows nothing about business into the position of making important decisions.”
Why not? You guys did.
“We all know how this is going to work out.”
We know how it worked out when you guys did. But Obama isn’t George W. Bush. He’s, oh, several hundred IQ points smarter.
@46 Why not belittle you?
If it was unAmerican and unconstitutional then, it still is.
@57 belongs in the next thread, and I couldn’t fix it because Goldy’s edit function isn’t working.
@53
Why don’t you back up that accusation with some evidence, asshole?
Otherwise, stop lying about what I “supposedly” think. If you think I tolerate radical Islam any more than any form of religious extremism, you’re wrong. And if you make that claim again, you’re once again – a liar.
Oh Lee,
What I said was:
Exactly what “lies” do you see here?
As far as listing your extremist points of view, somehow I think you would rather just spew epithets.
But then, I know you are so fascinated by assholes that you ……………….
OTOH
You might also wonder whether this form of discourse makes you more convincing?
I remain, believe it or not, a fan of a lot of your commitments and would much rather find a way to be constructive.
As one example, I posted some pretty rational questions about how to male the best use of I-1000. Your only response was to refer to a site that wants to promote the cocktail w/o moving on the issues this opens up … inlcuding the need to make this choice availbale to more of the people who need it and addressing the real ethical issues that have impeded use of this option in Oregon.
But …
@60
Exactly what “lies” do you see here?
Give me an example of where my beliefs can be accurately described as “fanatic” (definition: “A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.”)
I’ve been blogging for 5 years. Just one example. If I were a “fanatic”, this won’t be hard for you.
@61
You might also wonder whether this form of discourse makes you more convincing?
I don’t care. I only use this form of discourse with you (and the other brainless trolls), and it’s because you’re too stupid to matter.
I remain, believe it or not, a fan of a lot of your commitments and would much rather find a way to be constructive.
Don’t care. I think you’re a bigot, a liar, and an asshole. I think you’re one of the worst human beings I’ve ever met in my life, hands down.
As one example, I posted some pretty rational questions about how to male the best use of I-1000. Your only response was to refer to a site that wants to promote the cocktail w/o moving on the issues this opens up
Bullshit. That never happened. I challenge you to provide a link to any of this. I guarantee that you’re either severely misrepresenting what happened or you’re just making it up out of thin air.
inlcuding the need to make this choice availbale to more of the people who need it and addressing the real ethical issues that have impeded use of this option in Oregon.
And if you want, I’ll be more than happy to dig up the comments where you’ve outright lied about the positive effects that Oregon’s DWD law has had on the care of elderly patients.
Try me.
Lee ..
Fanatacism: curative powers of medical marijuana and lack of carcinogenicity of carcinogens in MJ smoke.
Invective: YSeems to me this diminishes you. Sort like walking around with a spasm in your middle finger. Not the most impressive form of argument. Neither is being fat impressive .. so I am fat and you have a dirty mouth.
Bullshit … go read your own blog. As one example, I went out of my way to suggest you attend the meeting at UW hospital. I also referred you to the terrible debates in England over the NICE program and the difficulties their laws are making for people who need terminal care. BTW, I would hope you are aware of the conflict over Swiss suicide laws and English law? Or do you care about the lady who has MS and can not travel to Switzerland?
As you know I did try to be sure you knew of the meeting at the UW and was truly sorry you were not there. In contrast, I have yet to see a single post from you on the real issues that real people are trying to address to get this law to work. The site you referred me to has absolutely NO materials on the multiple issues that need to be addressed other than psreading the word that I-1000 s now law.
Oregon. You keep saying I lie. I suppose that s because you know I do not and take pride in being truthful. I did not lie. Why not put up or shut up? Or is name calling your only talent?
Bigot ????
Errr ahhh??? You mean because I actually READ??? I think we have been there before. You think because I have read the koran and the freedom house report I am a bigot? Or is it my objection to your I-1000 friend who attacked Catholics as pedophiles and doctors as money grubbers because each group opposed I-1000? ?
Worst Persons …
Hmmm. I wonder who filed a certain complaint at the UW???????
Oh yeh …
You are a fanatic about me as well.