I had a Republican door belling for Dino show up at my door this morning. We had a nice chat and he told me his biggest fear is Democrats will have such a huge majority after this falls election that they wont even bother to talk to the other side of the isle.
Smart man.
3
jcricketspews:
…he told me his biggest fear is Democrats will have such a huge majority after this falls election that they wont even bother to talk to the other side of the isle.
If the other side of the aisle continue their efforts of legislative obstruction, they should be totally shunned. We can’t afford wasting precious time when we have serious repair work to do.
4
Proud To Be An Assspews:
…he told me his biggest fear is Democrats will have such a huge majority after this falls election that they wont even bother to talk to the other side of the isle.
The ‘talks’ should be as between the left and the right members of the Democratic Party. The GOP, in its present incantation, should indeed be shunned. After their performance in Congress from ’94 to ’06, what’s the point?
They are lunatic extremists.
5
Daddy Lovespews:
Oh, come on. We’re going to see a display of “bipartisanship” of which no one in this generation has yet seen the like. The reason? Republicans will be scare shitless.
6
Daddy Lovespews:
Here’s Marc Ambinder blogging at theAtlantic.com on Nouri al-Maliki’s historic statement of support for president Obama’s plan to withdraw American combat troops over 16 months…enjoy.
…This puts John McCain in an extremely precarious spot: what’s left to argue? To argue against Maliki would be to predicate that Iraqi sovereignty at this point means nothing. Obviously, our national interests aren’t equivalent to Iraq’s, but… Malik isn’t listening to the generals on the ground…but the “hasn’t been to Iraq” line doesn’t work here…(Via e-mail, a prominent Republican strategist who occasionally provides advice to the McCain campaign said, simply, “We’re fucked.”
Clearly Iraq’s prime minister is ignorant of the facts on the ground.
7
Daddy Lovespews:
A new Washington Post-ABC News poll:
75 percent of Americans support gays serving openly in the military. Even 64 percent of Republicans support this.
8
Daddy Lovespews:
For some weird reason I think we should believe the Iraqis when they tell us they’re OK, really they are, and that it would be a good idea if we were to leave.
And that really kind of leads to the conclusion that John McCain has been, and still is, massively and consistently wrong on Iraq and has drawn the exact opposite conclusions from those arrived at by the people who, you know, live there, speak the language, actually know the difference between Sunni and Shia (and who probably also know that there is no Czechoslovakia), and run the place.
John McCain’s strongest (and let’s not kid ourselves, ONLY) possible argument that he should be president has just been shredded into a hamster bed. This could turn into a rout.
9
Roger Rabbitspews:
@2 “Democrats will have such a huge majority after this falls election that they wont even bother to talk to the other side of the isle.”
I can’t think of any reason why we should.
10
Roger Rabbitspews:
@6 A little thing like sovereignty has never stopped Republicans from doing as they please. They don’t even respect our own Constitution or laws.
11
ByeByeGOPspews:
Yeah a Rossi doorbell ringer made the mistake of stopping by my house.
I asked him if he knew Rossi had a DUI, had lied about his status as a Real Estate Broker and had refused to release his tax records. The poor guy didn’t even come close to having a comeback.
I told him he was on the wrong team and that there was still time to do the patriotic thing and vote Democratic!
12
ByeByeGOPspews:
I remember the republican ass lickers claiming to be in favor of the rule of law – guess not.
13
Roger Rabbitspews:
Republican anything-goes capitalism is on its last legs as Bush asks Congress to bail out Fannie and Freddie. If we did that he’d call it “socialism.”
14
W. Klingon Skausenspews:
I’m going to check out the petition and sign it.
15
FricknFrackspews:
Thanks for the reminder. Got this last night in an email from Robert Greenwald. Signed it today after watching the video.
Looks like they’re getting about 20,000 signers per 3-hours = at this point.
Is Rove still out of the country? Or has anyone heard about his location lately?
16
typical white person (rob)spews:
They couldn’t beat Karl Rove fair and square so they targeted him with a whimpy democratic congress that has a public approval rating of a whopping 9%.
Democratic Governor Don Siegleman was convicted by a jury of his peers.
Nice video democratics but it seems you lost again!
17
typical white person (rob)spews:
In 2006, a Federal jury convicted Siegelman on corruption charges, and he was sentenced to seven years in prison. He served some time at the satellite camp of the Federal Detention Center in Oakdale, Louisiana. On March 28, 2008, he was released on bond by the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals pending his appeal.[2] 52 State Attorneys General, including members of both parties, have signed a petition requesting an investigation.
18
jcricketspews:
Oh yes…back to Karl. Well, well, well…whaddaya know….
Rove’s hatred for Democrats goes back a loooong way….
” At age 9, Rove is a vocal supporter of Richard Nixon’s presidential campaign — so vocal, in fact, that an older girl, a would-be Kennedy voter, beats him up.
He had a Nixon sticker on his bike, and a neighborhood girl (about age 11) had a Kennedy sticker on her bike. He starts talking shit and she smacks his ass to the curb.
So the entire motive in his pathetic little life comes down to holding a forty year grudge over losing a fight to a girl”
What a pansy!!!
(h/t to Blue Buddha at Sadly, No! this evening.)
19
typical white person (rob)spews:
Re: 18, speaking of pansy’s/chicken hawk. Borack Hussein Obama is all about sending more soldiers to war in Afghaistan. Of course Borack Hussein Obama was to much of a pussy to be a soldier himself. Now that boy’s is a pansy.
20
W. Klingon Skausenspews:
http://www.opennntp.com/Politi.....08346.html This was written on Sept. 4, 2007.
“Thanks to the dirty work of Karl Rove, Alabama’s former Democratic
governor, Don Siegelman, was falsely convicted of bribery and
conspiracy, and faces a sentence of up to 30 years in prison. His
prosecution was driven by politically motivated, Republican-appointed
U.S. attorneys. A longtime Republican lawyer in Alabama heard a top
G.O.P. operative in the state say that Rove “had spoken with the
Department of Justice” about “pursuing” Siegelman, with help from two
of Alabama’s U.S. attorneys.”
Just the facts ‘twp (rob)’. Many ‘convictions’ have been overturned because they were false. I wonder if they’ll ever find out where Kenneth Lay is hiding?
21
jcricketspews:
typical white person is frustrated…neener neener neener!!!!!!
wooo hooo!
22
Roger Rabbitspews:
@18 Some historians have speculated that Hitler murdered Europe’s Jews because a Jewish girl rejected him when he was young.
Funny how you mention Rove and Hitler comes to mind …
23
typical white person (rob)spews:
Re: 20, Oh Jesus! and the US govenment was resposibele for 911. Do you have any names of all of these conspiroters dillweed?
24
Roger Rabbitspews:
Now that cheap labor conservatives have succeeded in reducing everyone’s wages, the economy is collapsing because no one is buying stuff anymore.
25
ByeByeGOPspews:
@19. speaking of pansy’s/chicken hawk. Borack Hussein Obama is all about sending more soldiers to war in Afghaistan. Of course Borack Hussein Obama was to much of a pussy to be a soldier himself. Now that boy’s is a pansy.
WOW I sure hope you realize that your boys WHATADICK Cheney, Limpdick Limbaugh, Handjob Hannity, Wrongway Romney, and a host of other right wing Chickenhawks fit that description. You worried about that too shithead?
26
typical white person (rob)spews:
Re: 24, that’s odd, I thought the demcracts passed a new minimun wage law? Am I mistaken or did more governemt interference make things worse?
27
jcricketspews:
Roger….you have just fulfilled Godwin’s Law – in an unorthodox way. But in this case, the parallel is acceptable. It would be interesting to hear if there have been any studies of the damage to society caused by men who are weak or confused or embittered heterosexually such as Rove and Hitler.
28
ByeByeGOPspews:
I actually think the Rove thing can work to our favor – here’s how. Since the Bush regime has set the standard with it’s absolute, 100% total and complete disregard for the Constitution and the Rule of Law – why not use that ourselves? When we win in November – and we will, we just start ignoring any rights and rules that help the ass-licking right and tell em to go fuck themselves when they want to look for justice. In fact, we should just lock all of em up forever and leave the country to real patriots.
29
typical white person (rob)spews:
Re: 25, Nope, I think Borack Hussein Obama fits right in with that group.
30
typical white person (rob)spews:
Re: 28, If you could think you wouldn’t leave yourself so open to looking like an idiot as you did in your post at 25. I don’t believe Americans are lined up to here your wisdom.
31
typical white person (rob)spews:
Bwhahhahhhaaha, the only person Borack Hussien Obama is close to that knows how to put a bomb on target is William Ayers (William Ayers was a terrorist that bombed the Pentagon and a New York City Police Station)
32
michaelspews:
Hey Rob,
Are you going to wait until Obama’s sworn in to go on your shooting rampage or do it on election night?
Someone needs to track Rob down and get him set up with a good therapist.
33
typical white person (rob)spews:
RE: 32. I don’t recall saying I was going on a
shooting rampage. I have just been pointing out how stupid you liberals are. As for Hussein Obama being sworn in, that is why we have elections.
Are you ok or do you need me to call someone for you?
34
typical white person (rob)spews:
It seems we have liberal after liberal saying stupid things on this site, I point it out and they dissapear. I don’t need a gun michael, pussies are easliy eliminated with words.
35
Davidspews:
OMG!!! You mean we might actually go after the person responsible for 9-11? Follow through on what Chimpy and crew promised the Afghanis a long time ago? Woo hoo, you mean our country won’t be losing any more face in the region?
BTW Rob; if all you’ve got is messing up the spelling of his first name and pointing out his middle name you don’t have anything.
36
typical white person (rob)spews:
Re: 32, Since I am not a Muslim and am not familiar with Muslim names I will just call him Jimi.
37
typical white person (rob)spews:
woops I ment re: 35.
38
FricknFrackspews:
@ 18. jcricket
I think if you Google:
Rove homosexual father
It gives a whole bunch of sites regarding Rove’s Dad being gay. Makes some sense if he was beaten up by a Girl, doubtful his ego could handle it.
There appears to be a LOT more tangents regarding Rove’s sexual identity and need to be the most manly-man (needing to prove himself to be the ultimate Repub possible). Check it out if you get the chance, rather interesting.
39
typical white person (rob)spews:
RE: 38, it’s good to see that the most leftist site in Seattle hates queers! You fuckers are sick I tell you.
40
michaelspews:
@34
I don’t need a gun michael
Well that’s good to hear.
41
FricknFrackspews:
22. Roger Rabbit spews: @18 Some historians have speculated that Hitler murdered Europe’s Jews because a Jewish girl rejected him when he was young.
Funny how you mention Rove and Hitler comes to mind …
Curious, I’ve never heard that. Interesting that both Rove & Hitler had/have such an objection to Gays, too.
42
ByeByeGOPspews:
Just thought I’d point out (in honor of UNTypical White Person) that the Bush Twins are drunks and whores, that Laura Bush killed a guy, that SIN Dee McCain is a cunt who spends 800k a month on her AMEX – that 1023 year old FlipFlop McCain is a coward and a traitor who worked with the VC to help them fight our troops for five years in order to avoid harsh treatment before coming home to his disfigured wife who he had an affair on and dumped for the rich bitch. That George Bush was a pussy who needed his daddy’s help to avoid going to Nam and then while drunk or coked up went AWOL from the NG.
That is all.
43
typical white person (rob)spews:
RE: 40, but I forgot to mention, I have one if I need it! I don’t though, I proved what a dunce bye bye Gop is and he disappeared. You don’t have anything interesting to say to back up you original post so you will be gone soon as well. Free Speech works doesn’t it.
44
delbertspews:
Who wants to be in the Legislature when the $2.7 billion dollar deficit comes home to roost. 8,000 new government “workers”, spending out the wazoo to buy off the SEIU and the teacher’s union, underfunded public pensions. Chris and the Democrats have fucked this state over, again.
And CNN is in the tank for Obama, so you know this was hard for them to announce.
46
typical white person (rob)spews:
Re: 42, I just thought I would point out with as much documentation as you just did that Borack Hussein Obama has arraigned marriages to Muslims for both of his daughters who are 8 and 10 years old. His wife Michelle Obama attended several meetings with Faricon where she referred to white people as “whitey” and that Borack Hussein Obama took his daughters cherry when they were both 4 years old.
Two can play this game can’t they?
See how lying works punk?
47
typical white person (rob)spews:
42, 40, 38, I would like to stay here and make you guys even dumber and more rude than you are but I have other things to do. You, Obama, Jon Soltz and Kos can talk among yourselves what brave soldiers you are and how you are bidding on Obama’s 10 year old.
Have a nice night.
48
ByeByeGOPspews:
UNtypical White idiot – you’ve never done anything BUT lie here. Are you Puddylicker or CynCyn? Can’t figure out which alter ego you are this time.
As for my posts they’re all true and all verifiable but you don’t want any truth. It’s downright scary to ass-lickers like you.
You don’t mind that the vast majority of republican leaders are chickenhawks (go ahead and look that up on google little fellow I know it’s a big word for you). The reason you don’t mind that they’re chickenhawks is YOU’RE a chickenhawk.
Go ahead and type in google Laura Bush killed a guy. I’ll wait you little bitch but hurry up….okay see? She really did kill a guy. Now repeat that process and come back and admit you’re a cum-drunk asswipe who’s fat ugly wife likes me to give it to her in the ass.
Oh and by the way – I’m NEVER going to leave this board – but you will as soon as President Obama takes the White House. You won’t be able to stand the constant reminder that you’re a looooooooser.
49
ByeByeGOPspews:
Once we get a Democratic super-majority in the federal government – we need to then concentrate on replacing the go along – get along Dems with folks that have the conviction to send a closeted gay traitor like Rove to jail.
50
W. Klingon Skausenspews:
re 47: Right. You have “better things to do” — like Dick Cheney had “better things to do” when he was dodging military service in a war he believed in and supported.
51
Rick D.spews:
Goldy’s pissing up a rope again. Rove will be out of your hair soon enough , replaced by a McCain boogeyman that you’ll no doubt latch onto as an excuse why your boy Obama doesn’t ascend to 1600 Pennsyvania in November.
I can’t wait till November 6th when I come into Goldy’s hate site and see the posts coming from the usual donkey’s. They’ll be squealing like stuck pigs when McCain, Rossi and Reichert all win their respective races and sends little david Gold stain to the mental ward for observation…..a fine day indeed.
52
Daddy Lovespews:
31 twpr
Do you mean the William Ayers who holds a doctorate in education and is currently a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, College of Education?
How surprising that a professor of constitutional law would know him.
53
Daddy Lovespews:
51 RD
Be happy and keep believing that your ideological dreams can trump reality.
Reality says that your candidates are behind: McCain and Rossi in virtually every poll, and Reichert in money and energy.
Reality says that like McCain, no one gets excited about Reichert, and the tarnished Republican brand makes them all look like corrupt incompetents running on a program of “the same old thing one more time!”
Reality says that al-Maliki endorsing a 16-month withdrawal leaves the economy as the dominant issue in the campaign, and Obama leads McCain on the economy by 20 points.
But did you know John McCain was a POW?
54
Stephen Schwartzspews:
R_E_S_P_O_N_S_I_B_I_L_I_T_Y vs P-R-I-V-I-L-I-D-G-E
The failure of Karl Rove to testify on his own actions is part and parcel of the erosion of responsibility among America’s privileged class.
The claim of executive privilege is bunk, but it is not all that different from the protection for responsibility that our legal and financial systems have created.
examples:
End of Entrepreneurship How much risk is their today in being a high level corporate maanager? Company failes, you get a golden parachute.
Unequal Before the Law At $300 and rising, attorney’s fees are beyond the mean of the middle and lower classes. You get fucked by a car dealer. Forgettboutit, sayeth the lawyer. Or she will suggest a compromise to save YOU money. Only the rich can stand up in court in civil cases. Criminal cases are even worse. Can the rich get away with murder? Ask OJ Simpson.
The Power of the Emperor Ordinary government employess routinely get fired for deeds far less serious than the incompetence of the high governement officials. BUT, to make it worse, they too have golden parachutes … actually theirs are platinum. John McCain, Bill Clinton, DD Eisenhower, Bill Dole, Harry Truman, Sunny Jim (I suspect)…. all these folks came to office with VERY modest means yet, when fired or retired somehow had become wealthy. Utter idiots like Dan Quayle, parlay their failures into cushy well paying jobs. How is this different from the life long support in luxury we see for exiled princes and commissars?
Martha Stewart and Mike Millikan Go on Vacation Siggh, these two ripped off our system for unfathomable amounts of money. Yet, both served relatively pleasant times in prison followed by a return to society where they were still rich. These penalties are almost worthy of Gilbert and Sullivan,
****************************************
WE need a kinder version of Mao’s cultural revolution to flatten this classism in our country.
Here are some thoughts:
1. On a competitive basis, university education should be free,
2. Impoverishment should be made a punishment for crimes that cost others their wealth. If found guilty, youi would be allowed to retain no more than an amount of wealth that reflects your crime.
3.Enhanced Small Claims Court What if
we created an enhanced small claims court where the AG representing US could even the playing field a bit in civil matters? Such a court might even have the interesting ability to sue for damages from companies or individuals now protected by lout system. Presumably such damages could make that court self financing.
55
CJSspews:
And that really kind of leads to the conclusion that John McCain has been, and still is, massively and consistently wrong on Iraq
—————
Well, he certainly wasn’t wrong about the surge, which is making discussion of a 16 month withdrawal even realistic. Regarding the withdrawal schedule, the reaction from Iraqis on the timetable has been far more nuanced – yes, they want the Americans to leave; but yes, they want the security the surge has produced.
We’ll have to see how this plays out. As William Fallon noted, the issue isn’t as simple as in or out.
An issue that is emerging for some on the left is Afghanistan. Obama and McCain each propose big troop “surges” as Iraq becomes more stable and resources free up. Why the US is taking the lead here in troops and costs while NATO must be begged for a 1000 troops here and a 1000 there is a reasonable question. If this is the critical front against terrorism, where are the Russians and Chinese and Indians? And is there also going to be a timetable for the Karzai government (which has been heavily criticized for its lack of progress in key areas) in return for our blood and money?
If our costs in Afghanistan rise steadily year after year, it will become the new flash point for an American administration.
@45
If you believe that retraction was not due to pressure from the Bush Administration, you’re the most naive person on the planet.
57
Another TJspews:
If you believe that retraction was not due to pressure from the Bush Administration, you’re the most naive person on the planet.
Especially when you consider the Iraqi government didn’t release the statement, CENTCOM did.
58
Roger Rabbitspews:
Factoid: State spending rose 31% in Gov. Gregoire’s first term.* It rose 36% in the first term of our last GOP governor, John Spellman.
* Much of this is deferred spending from the Locke administration, which was hamstrung by the GOP obstructionists who controlled the state senate for 10 years, and also by the First Bush Recession of 2001.
59
Daddy Lovespews:
55 cjs
Well, he certainly wasn’t wrong about the surge, which is making discussion of a 16 month withdrawal even realistic.
Although he wouldn’t withdraw, so it’s a moot point about McCain, right? I mean, if things were getting better, he’d stay there because of that, and if things were getting worse, he’d stay there because of that.
But regarding the “success” of the escalationsurge, it is true now that we’re paying off the Sunnis and now that the ethnic cleansing and partitioning of Baghdad is complete that things are a little quieter. But there’s not only no oil law, but the Kurds are unilaterally making oil deals, the Shiites are forming a number of anti-Occupation groups, the elections probably won’t happen because there’s no agreement in the government, and in the midst of all of this the Prime Minister of Iraq says he thinks we should leave. The “success of the surge” is a rhetorical device to hide that our occupying army is hated by the occupied.
Regarding the withdrawal schedule, the reaction from Iraqis on the timetable has been far more nuanced – yes, they want the Americans to leave; but yes, they want the security the surge has produced.
That’s just a load of horsehit. Prime Minister Nouri could not have been more clear when he said:
“US presidential candidate Barack Obama talks about 16 months. That, we think, would be the right timeframe for a withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes.”
As William Fallon noted, the issue isn’t as simple as in or out.
William Fallon is a miltary man, and we have civilian control. He’ll bloody well do as he is told or he’s out. Don’t pretend that Bush hasn’t sacked every military man who disagreed with him.
An issue that is emerging for some on the left is Afghanistan. Obama and McCain each propose big troop “surges” as Iraq becomes more stable and resources free up.
No, Barack Obama says we’ll use troops freed when we withdraw from Iraq to send to Afghanistan. John McCain will not withdraw from Iraq for 100 years and says that additional troops in Afghanistan should come from NATO, a recogntion that while we stay in Iraq there are no troops to send. But Europe won’t send additional troops because they don’t want to cooperate with a nation of militaristic torturers, which we would remain under a McCain administration.
If this is the critical front against terrorism, where are the Russians and Chinese and Indians?
One could say the same about Iraq, no?
60
Daddy Lovespews:
58 RR
And half or the increase is in education, with an additional 10% in corrections. Much of the educatioal increases were due to voter iniatitives that raised tacher pay, but Governor Gregoire has increased the pay of our underpaid corrections officers.
61
CJSspews:
Carl,
“That’s just a load of horsehit. Prime Minister Nouri could not have been more clear when he said:”
Let’s not confuse what Prime Minister (Nouri) al-Maliki says to a German newspaper with what everyone in Iraq feels. See, for example:
Incidentally, according to an al-Maliki spokesman, the comments the prime minister made to the German magazine Der Spiegel were “misunderstood and mistranslated” and were not “conveyed accurately.” See:
So, maybe they could have been more clear, eh? I’d give this story time to sort itself out.
“William Fallon is a miltary man, and we have civilian control. He’ll bloody well do as he is told or he’s out.”
But he is out – he’s retired and at the M.I.T. Center for International Studies.
“No, Barack Obama says we’ll use troops freed when we withdraw from Iraq to send to Afghanistan. John McCain will not withdraw from Iraq for 100 years and says that additional troops in Afghanistan should come from NATO, a recogntion that while we stay in Iraq there are no troops to send.”
The original point being made was Afghanistan could emerge as a growing issue for the left if it demands more and more US blood and money. See, for example:
Obama, if he’s elected, could easily find himself facing growing criticism at home on this topic (just as Nixon did).
“But Europe won’t send additional troops because they don’t want to cooperate with a nation of militaristic torturers,”
Can you provide support for this?
62
ByeByeGOPspews:
It’s interesting to see just how much distance there is between reality and the jizz that the right wing turds spew here. Even republican talking heads on TV say the “GOP” is in deep shit this time around. Perhaps our local inbred idiots just can’t face facts.
63
ByeByeGOPspews:
Now THIS is a fucking fantastic idea. We need to do this in every Democratic state in the country!
Let’s not confuse what Prime Minister (Nouri) al-Maliki says to a German newspaper with what everyone in Iraq feels. See, for example: x or y
Let’s not confuse cherry-picked interviews with unrepresentative Iraqis with survey results. The plural of “anecdote” is not “data.” According to the University of Maryland’s Program on International Policy Attitudes poll reported in in the WaPo, “About six in 10 Iraqis say they approve of attacks on U.S.-led forces, and slightly more than that want their government to ask U.S. troops to leave within a year…” And according to a poll by ABC News (February-March 2007) and media partners, “four in five Iraqis oppose the presence of U.S. troops,” and 51% of the Iraqi population approve of the attacks on Coalition forces, growing to over 90% of the Arab Sunni approving of such attacks.
Incidentally, according to an al-Maliki spokesman, the comments the prime minister made to the German magazine Der Spiegel were “misunderstood and mistranslated” and were not “conveyed accurately.” See:
You mean, according to the “spokesman” in a statement issued not by the Iraqi government but rather by the Army of Occupation, Mr. Maliki’s statement had been “not conveyed accurately” but fails to name a single innacuracy. This stands in pretty stark contrast to al-Maliki’s on the record interview with Der Spiegel in which his comments were not at all ambiguous and during which time he repeatedly returned to the subject of thinking that Obama’s proposals are the right framework within which to proceed.
65
Roger Rabbitspews:
@60 Yes, if Rossi were honest, he’d tell voters that the only way to build an 8-lane 520 bridge while cutting state spending is to cut teacher pay, fire prison guards, and release felons. But he’s not honest. He’s a sleazy real estate salesman who enthusiastically worked for a crooked broker who went to jail for fraud.
66
Daddy Lovespews:
61 cjs
Afghanistan could emerge as a growing issue for the left if it demands more and more US blood and money.
So, if things change, they will be different in some way. Striking in its depth. Nothing president Obama has yet said indicates that he would support a huge, open-ended involvement in Afghanistan, and his record argues against it.
And, of course, nothing will be going on on the right while this is suposedly happening. I may be too busy watching the back-stabbing and fratricidal quarrels as the losers form their usual circular firing squad to think about Afghanistan.
But [a] Our military investment in Afghanistan is miniscule, shared with actual allies, and is easily supportable once we leave Iraq. And [b] Nixon was a lying son of a bitch who claimed to have a plan to leave Vietnam but never intended any such thing, and when we fianlly saw through that of course we were pissed.
67
CJSspews:
The plural of “anecdote” is not “data.” According to the University of Maryland’s Program on International Policy Attitudes poll reported in in the WaPo, “About six in 10 Iraqis say they approve of attacks on U.S.-led forces, and slightly more than that want their government to ask U.S. troops to leave within a year…”
—————
Carl,
That poll was taken nearly two years ago when violence was raging. This poll:
“And according to a poll by ABC News (February-March 2007) and media partners, “four in five Iraqis oppose the presence of U.S. troops,”
was also taken when violence was raging. As the poll notes:
“The major cause for this sharp reversal in Iraqi attitudes is the continuing violence — bombings, attacks by roving gunmen and kidnappings — that has overwhelmed the country since the U.S. invasion four years ago this week.”
Now that this violence has dropped off dramatically the question is have they changed their views on the value and duration of the American support. The WAPO articles – which were current – touched on that. This will have to play out – let’s see what poll data says in the months ahead.
Regarding this:
“You mean, according to the “spokesman” in a statement issued not by the Iraqi government but rather by the Army of Occupation”
I don’t mean anything – I simply passed on a story. The story quotes an al-Maliki spokesman, Ali al-Dabbagh. As I said, we’ll have to see if this story has legs.
“But Europe won’t send additional troops because they don’t want to cooperate with a nation of militaristic torturers,”
Again, where is your support for this claim?
68
CJSspews:
So, if things change, they will be different in some way. Striking in its depth. Nothing president Obama has yet said indicates that he would support a huge, open-ended involvement in Afghanistan, and his record argues against it.
—————
Carl,
Tom Hayden is hardly the only one asking these questions regarding Obama’s thinking on Afghanistan. See:
for example. The point is – the only point being made – is elements of the left are always raising this as a concern. It is what is it.
69
Stephen Schwartzspews:
69 Obamism
I for one hope that Obama is NOT the knee jerk, simple minded, follow the leader some here seem to thin he might be.
The issues in Afghanistan are utterly different form those in Iraq, not the least because th dangerous folks live across the Pki border .. in a nulcear country with real teeth.
Also, unlike iraq, Afghanistan has a long history of figh8itng for it sonw freedom and the occupying fors is actually mutinational.
70
Roger Rabbitspews:
Voting Republican is immoral.
71
Daddy Lovespews:
68 cjs
Who’s Carl?
Juan Cole has also questioned a further involvement in Afghanistan. Good men may disagree. Historically, occupying that nation has not worked out well. Bit if we decided to partner with them to finally keep the promises on which George W. Bush reneged, perhaps it will work out a bit better.
72
Roger Rabbitspews:
I’m reading a book about what companies do to bust unions. If you’re for the union, they’ll assign you to dangerous and unpleasant work to get you to quit, and if that doesn’t work, they’ll fabricate misconduct charges against you and fire you. Some union busters even call pro-union employees’ wives and tell them their husbands are cheating on them. Who would work for a company like that? I won’t! In fact, I don’t work at all! I’m what’s called “financially independent.” I live in a hole in the ground in a public park and eat grass, so I don’t need a job or money. I’ve made a deal with America’s employers and it works like this: They don’t employ me, and I don’t work for them, or buy their products. My answer to the Cheap Labor Economy is the No Labor Economy. They don’t employ me, and I don’t work. I produce nothing for them and buy nothing from them, and they make nothing for me and sell nothing to me, and nobody has any money, and everyone’s happy because we don’t fight over money!
73
ByeByeGOPspews:
President Obama says we should look at Pakistan as a potential problem; the Bush regime and their ilk attack – then quietly agree…
President Obama says 16 months is a reasonable time frame to get most of our troops out of Iraq; the Bush regime and their ilk attack – then quietly agree along with Iraq’s leadership and even FlipFlop McCain…
74
Roger Rabbitspews:
@16 The reason Congress is so unpopular is because they’re not jailing Republicans fast enough.
75
Richard Popespews:
We could sure use a new comment thread — this one is 27 hours old already!
KARL ROVE SUCKS — but that is old news already. How about focusing on how Rossi and McCain suck, or better yet, how Gregoire is doing a good job already and how Obama will do a better job than the fellow he will be succeeding?
76
Richard Popespews:
Roger Rabbit @ 65
“@60 Yes, if Rossi were honest, he’d tell voters that the only way to build an 8-lane 520 bridge while cutting state spending is to cut teacher pay, fire prison guards, and release felons. But he’s not honest.”
Actually, Rossi is also promising to build more prisons and hire more guards, so that felons won’t be given early releases. He is also promising to increase sentences, so felons serve more time — which will further increase the need for prisons and prison guards.
Rossi is also promising to “balance” the budget next biennium, and does not propose to cut any programs. Rossi is not proposing to increase taxes either.
Instead, Rossi will pay for all this increased spending by CUTTING state taxes. This strategy worked very well for Ronald Reagan in 1981, and for George W. Bush in 2001. Unfortunately for Rossi, the state of Washington cannot legally borrow to cover state operating deficits, and (unlike the federal government) does not have the right to print its own currency.
77
Richard Popespews:
Back in 2004, I read the platforms that Gregoire and Rossi posted on their websites. At the time (although looking at things from a bit different political perspective), it seemed to me that both candidates had promises and programs that could reasonably be implemented. In other words, their promises could basically be kept.
This time around, Rossi is promising everything to everybody, with absolutely no way to come close to keeping his promises. There is no possible way to do everything Rossi is promising, while at the same time CUTTING state taxes and dealing with the projected deficit that would occur next biennium at the present level of spending and taxation.
78
Roger Rabbitspews:
@76 Apparently he expects state employees to work without pay …
79
Stephen Schwartzspews:
@73 Obamism
Actually, stripped of rhetoric, Obhama and McCain have saiud very similar things about Iraq and Afhagnistan all along.
The biggest differences are:
BHO offers a global view while McC focuses on something claled victory that he can not define.
Oddly, of the two it is Obama whose positions are more mature.
80
Richard Popespews:
Roger Rabbit @ 78
Maybe Rossi hasn’t thought of that approach yet? Submit your “IDEA”, and you can receive a special award from Lou Guzzo.
81
ByeByeGOPspews:
@79 No actually FlipFlop McCain has only recently started talking about Afhagnistan in the same light as President Obama. McCain has morphed his position on Iraq and Afhagnistan several times since 2000.
82
Stephen Schwartzspews:
@81
The process distorts, BUT from the beignining, NcCain supported a rational, military, Powell doctrine approach. So fois Obama.
The difference was that when Presisnet Dumbasabush effed up, Obama called out the truth abut the emperor’s clothes, saying we have lost, we can no longer “win,” so we need a well planned withdrawal.
McCain also said Bush had effed up BUT he said we could rescue some of the F up by bringing on Petraeus and his strategy. McC was correect.
Now the issue is what they would REALLY do differently? I supect not much. Both understand the military facts on the ground .. we need to control Afghanistan of only to keep the Taliban form controlling Pakistan. Both understand that we need an Indian Ocean strategy and that this probably means an expanded alliance with Chin or India to clean up the pirates of Somalia beofe they start going after tankers and to restrain Iran’s options as a sea gowing nuclear power.
Leaving aside rhetoric, my bet is that McC has no idea what he emans by victory in Iraq and would gladly settle for the same stategic withdrawal Obama has talked about for several years ..that is withdraw in strength!
What specifics do YOU thnbk BHO and JMcMcC would do differently?
michael spews:
Absolutely!
Linda Sánchez is awesome.
michael spews:
I had a Republican door belling for Dino show up at my door this morning. We had a nice chat and he told me his biggest fear is Democrats will have such a huge majority after this falls election that they wont even bother to talk to the other side of the isle.
Smart man.
jcricket spews:
…he told me his biggest fear is Democrats will have such a huge majority after this falls election that they wont even bother to talk to the other side of the isle.
If the other side of the aisle continue their efforts of legislative obstruction, they should be totally shunned. We can’t afford wasting precious time when we have serious repair work to do.
Proud To Be An Ass spews:
…he told me his biggest fear is Democrats will have such a huge majority after this falls election that they wont even bother to talk to the other side of the isle.
The ‘talks’ should be as between the left and the right members of the Democratic Party. The GOP, in its present incantation, should indeed be shunned. After their performance in Congress from ’94 to ’06, what’s the point?
They are lunatic extremists.
Daddy Love spews:
Oh, come on. We’re going to see a display of “bipartisanship” of which no one in this generation has yet seen the like. The reason? Republicans will be scare shitless.
Daddy Love spews:
Here’s Marc Ambinder blogging at theAtlantic.com on Nouri al-Maliki’s historic statement of support for president Obama’s plan to withdraw American combat troops over 16 months…enjoy.
Clearly Iraq’s prime minister is ignorant of the facts on the ground.
Daddy Love spews:
A new Washington Post-ABC News poll:
75 percent of Americans support gays serving openly in the military. Even 64 percent of Republicans support this.
Daddy Love spews:
For some weird reason I think we should believe the Iraqis when they tell us they’re OK, really they are, and that it would be a good idea if we were to leave.
And that really kind of leads to the conclusion that John McCain has been, and still is, massively and consistently wrong on Iraq and has drawn the exact opposite conclusions from those arrived at by the people who, you know, live there, speak the language, actually know the difference between Sunni and Shia (and who probably also know that there is no Czechoslovakia), and run the place.
John McCain’s strongest (and let’s not kid ourselves, ONLY) possible argument that he should be president has just been shredded into a hamster bed. This could turn into a rout.
Roger Rabbit spews:
@2 “Democrats will have such a huge majority after this falls election that they wont even bother to talk to the other side of the isle.”
I can’t think of any reason why we should.
Roger Rabbit spews:
@6 A little thing like sovereignty has never stopped Republicans from doing as they please. They don’t even respect our own Constitution or laws.
ByeByeGOP spews:
Yeah a Rossi doorbell ringer made the mistake of stopping by my house.
I asked him if he knew Rossi had a DUI, had lied about his status as a Real Estate Broker and had refused to release his tax records. The poor guy didn’t even come close to having a comeback.
I told him he was on the wrong team and that there was still time to do the patriotic thing and vote Democratic!
ByeByeGOP spews:
I remember the republican ass lickers claiming to be in favor of the rule of law – guess not.
Roger Rabbit spews:
Republican anything-goes capitalism is on its last legs as Bush asks Congress to bail out Fannie and Freddie. If we did that he’d call it “socialism.”
W. Klingon Skausen spews:
I’m going to check out the petition and sign it.
FricknFrack spews:
Thanks for the reminder. Got this last night in an email from Robert Greenwald. Signed it today after watching the video.
http://sendkarlrovetojail.com/?utm_source=rgemail
Looks like they’re getting about 20,000 signers per 3-hours = at this point.
Is Rove still out of the country? Or has anyone heard about his location lately?
typical white person (rob) spews:
They couldn’t beat Karl Rove fair and square so they targeted him with a whimpy democratic congress that has a public approval rating of a whopping 9%.
Democratic Governor Don Siegleman was convicted by a jury of his peers.
Nice video democratics but it seems you lost again!
typical white person (rob) spews:
In 2006, a Federal jury convicted Siegelman on corruption charges, and he was sentenced to seven years in prison. He served some time at the satellite camp of the Federal Detention Center in Oakdale, Louisiana. On March 28, 2008, he was released on bond by the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals pending his appeal.[2] 52 State Attorneys General, including members of both parties, have signed a petition requesting an investigation.
jcricket spews:
Oh yes…back to Karl. Well, well, well…whaddaya know….
Rove’s hatred for Democrats goes back a loooong way….
” At age 9, Rove is a vocal supporter of Richard Nixon’s presidential campaign — so vocal, in fact, that an older girl, a would-be Kennedy voter, beats him up.
He had a Nixon sticker on his bike, and a neighborhood girl (about age 11) had a Kennedy sticker on her bike. He starts talking shit and she smacks his ass to the curb.
So the entire motive in his pathetic little life comes down to holding a forty year grudge over losing a fight to a girl”
What a pansy!!!
(h/t to Blue Buddha at Sadly, No! this evening.)
typical white person (rob) spews:
Re: 18, speaking of pansy’s/chicken hawk. Borack Hussein Obama is all about sending more soldiers to war in Afghaistan. Of course Borack Hussein Obama was to much of a pussy to be a soldier himself. Now that boy’s is a pansy.
W. Klingon Skausen spews:
http://www.opennntp.com/Politi.....08346.html This was written on Sept. 4, 2007.
“Thanks to the dirty work of Karl Rove, Alabama’s former Democratic
governor, Don Siegelman, was falsely convicted of bribery and
conspiracy, and faces a sentence of up to 30 years in prison. His
prosecution was driven by politically motivated, Republican-appointed
U.S. attorneys. A longtime Republican lawyer in Alabama heard a top
G.O.P. operative in the state say that Rove “had spoken with the
Department of Justice” about “pursuing” Siegelman, with help from two
of Alabama’s U.S. attorneys.”
Just the facts ‘twp (rob)’. Many ‘convictions’ have been overturned because they were false. I wonder if they’ll ever find out where Kenneth Lay is hiding?
jcricket spews:
typical white person is frustrated…neener neener neener!!!!!!
wooo hooo!
Roger Rabbit spews:
@18 Some historians have speculated that Hitler murdered Europe’s Jews because a Jewish girl rejected him when he was young.
Funny how you mention Rove and Hitler comes to mind …
typical white person (rob) spews:
Re: 20, Oh Jesus! and the US govenment was resposibele for 911. Do you have any names of all of these conspiroters dillweed?
Roger Rabbit spews:
Now that cheap labor conservatives have succeeded in reducing everyone’s wages, the economy is collapsing because no one is buying stuff anymore.
ByeByeGOP spews:
@19. speaking of pansy’s/chicken hawk. Borack Hussein Obama is all about sending more soldiers to war in Afghaistan. Of course Borack Hussein Obama was to much of a pussy to be a soldier himself. Now that boy’s is a pansy.
WOW I sure hope you realize that your boys WHATADICK Cheney, Limpdick Limbaugh, Handjob Hannity, Wrongway Romney, and a host of other right wing Chickenhawks fit that description. You worried about that too shithead?
typical white person (rob) spews:
Re: 24, that’s odd, I thought the demcracts passed a new minimun wage law? Am I mistaken or did more governemt interference make things worse?
jcricket spews:
Roger….you have just fulfilled Godwin’s Law – in an unorthodox way. But in this case, the parallel is acceptable. It would be interesting to hear if there have been any studies of the damage to society caused by men who are weak or confused or embittered heterosexually such as Rove and Hitler.
ByeByeGOP spews:
I actually think the Rove thing can work to our favor – here’s how. Since the Bush regime has set the standard with it’s absolute, 100% total and complete disregard for the Constitution and the Rule of Law – why not use that ourselves? When we win in November – and we will, we just start ignoring any rights and rules that help the ass-licking right and tell em to go fuck themselves when they want to look for justice. In fact, we should just lock all of em up forever and leave the country to real patriots.
typical white person (rob) spews:
Re: 25, Nope, I think Borack Hussein Obama fits right in with that group.
typical white person (rob) spews:
Re: 28, If you could think you wouldn’t leave yourself so open to looking like an idiot as you did in your post at 25. I don’t believe Americans are lined up to here your wisdom.
typical white person (rob) spews:
Bwhahhahhhaaha, the only person Borack Hussien Obama is close to that knows how to put a bomb on target is William Ayers (William Ayers was a terrorist that bombed the Pentagon and a New York City Police Station)
michael spews:
Hey Rob,
Are you going to wait until Obama’s sworn in to go on your shooting rampage or do it on election night?
Someone needs to track Rob down and get him set up with a good therapist.
typical white person (rob) spews:
RE: 32. I don’t recall saying I was going on a
shooting rampage. I have just been pointing out how stupid you liberals are. As for Hussein Obama being sworn in, that is why we have elections.
Are you ok or do you need me to call someone for you?
typical white person (rob) spews:
It seems we have liberal after liberal saying stupid things on this site, I point it out and they dissapear. I don’t need a gun michael, pussies are easliy eliminated with words.
David spews:
OMG!!! You mean we might actually go after the person responsible for 9-11? Follow through on what Chimpy and crew promised the Afghanis a long time ago? Woo hoo, you mean our country won’t be losing any more face in the region?
BTW Rob; if all you’ve got is messing up the spelling of his first name and pointing out his middle name you don’t have anything.
typical white person (rob) spews:
Re: 32, Since I am not a Muslim and am not familiar with Muslim names I will just call him Jimi.
typical white person (rob) spews:
woops I ment re: 35.
FricknFrack spews:
@ 18. jcricket
I think if you Google:
Rove homosexual father
It gives a whole bunch of sites regarding Rove’s Dad being gay. Makes some sense if he was beaten up by a Girl, doubtful his ego could handle it.
There appears to be a LOT more tangents regarding Rove’s sexual identity and need to be the most manly-man (needing to prove himself to be the ultimate Repub possible). Check it out if you get the chance, rather interesting.
typical white person (rob) spews:
RE: 38, it’s good to see that the most leftist site in Seattle hates queers! You fuckers are sick I tell you.
michael spews:
@34
Well that’s good to hear.
FricknFrack spews:
Curious, I’ve never heard that. Interesting that both Rove & Hitler had/have such an objection to Gays, too.
ByeByeGOP spews:
Just thought I’d point out (in honor of UNTypical White Person) that the Bush Twins are drunks and whores, that Laura Bush killed a guy, that SIN Dee McCain is a cunt who spends 800k a month on her AMEX – that 1023 year old FlipFlop McCain is a coward and a traitor who worked with the VC to help them fight our troops for five years in order to avoid harsh treatment before coming home to his disfigured wife who he had an affair on and dumped for the rich bitch. That George Bush was a pussy who needed his daddy’s help to avoid going to Nam and then while drunk or coked up went AWOL from the NG.
That is all.
typical white person (rob) spews:
RE: 40, but I forgot to mention, I have one if I need it! I don’t though, I proved what a dunce bye bye Gop is and he disappeared. You don’t have anything interesting to say to back up you original post so you will be gone soon as well. Free Speech works doesn’t it.
delbert spews:
Who wants to be in the Legislature when the $2.7 billion dollar deficit comes home to roost. 8,000 new government “workers”, spending out the wazoo to buy off the SEIU and the teacher’s union, underfunded public pensions. Chris and the Democrats have fucked this state over, again.
delbert spews:
Oopsies.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/.....iki.obama/
And CNN is in the tank for Obama, so you know this was hard for them to announce.
typical white person (rob) spews:
Re: 42, I just thought I would point out with as much documentation as you just did that Borack Hussein Obama has arraigned marriages to Muslims for both of his daughters who are 8 and 10 years old. His wife Michelle Obama attended several meetings with Faricon where she referred to white people as “whitey” and that Borack Hussein Obama took his daughters cherry when they were both 4 years old.
Two can play this game can’t they?
See how lying works punk?
typical white person (rob) spews:
42, 40, 38, I would like to stay here and make you guys even dumber and more rude than you are but I have other things to do. You, Obama, Jon Soltz and Kos can talk among yourselves what brave soldiers you are and how you are bidding on Obama’s 10 year old.
Have a nice night.
ByeByeGOP spews:
UNtypical White idiot – you’ve never done anything BUT lie here. Are you Puddylicker or CynCyn? Can’t figure out which alter ego you are this time.
As for my posts they’re all true and all verifiable but you don’t want any truth. It’s downright scary to ass-lickers like you.
You don’t mind that the vast majority of republican leaders are chickenhawks (go ahead and look that up on google little fellow I know it’s a big word for you). The reason you don’t mind that they’re chickenhawks is YOU’RE a chickenhawk.
Go ahead and type in google Laura Bush killed a guy. I’ll wait you little bitch but hurry up….okay see? She really did kill a guy. Now repeat that process and come back and admit you’re a cum-drunk asswipe who’s fat ugly wife likes me to give it to her in the ass.
Oh and by the way – I’m NEVER going to leave this board – but you will as soon as President Obama takes the White House. You won’t be able to stand the constant reminder that you’re a looooooooser.
ByeByeGOP spews:
Once we get a Democratic super-majority in the federal government – we need to then concentrate on replacing the go along – get along Dems with folks that have the conviction to send a closeted gay traitor like Rove to jail.
W. Klingon Skausen spews:
re 47: Right. You have “better things to do” — like Dick Cheney had “better things to do” when he was dodging military service in a war he believed in and supported.
Rick D. spews:
Goldy’s pissing up a rope again. Rove will be out of your hair soon enough , replaced by a McCain boogeyman that you’ll no doubt latch onto as an excuse why your boy Obama doesn’t ascend to 1600 Pennsyvania in November.
I can’t wait till November 6th when I come into Goldy’s hate site and see the posts coming from the usual donkey’s. They’ll be squealing like stuck pigs when McCain, Rossi and Reichert all win their respective races and sends little david Gold stain to the mental ward for observation…..a fine day indeed.
Daddy Love spews:
31 twpr
Do you mean the William Ayers who holds a doctorate in education and is currently a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, College of Education?
How surprising that a professor of constitutional law would know him.
Daddy Love spews:
51 RD
Be happy and keep believing that your ideological dreams can trump reality.
Reality says that your candidates are behind: McCain and Rossi in virtually every poll, and Reichert in money and energy.
Reality says that like McCain, no one gets excited about Reichert, and the tarnished Republican brand makes them all look like corrupt incompetents running on a program of “the same old thing one more time!”
Reality says that al-Maliki endorsing a 16-month withdrawal leaves the economy as the dominant issue in the campaign, and Obama leads McCain on the economy by 20 points.
But did you know John McCain was a POW?
Stephen Schwartz spews:
R_E_S_P_O_N_S_I_B_I_L_I_T_Y vs P-R-I-V-I-L-I-D-G-E
The failure of Karl Rove to testify on his own actions is part and parcel of the erosion of responsibility among America’s privileged class.
The claim of executive privilege is bunk, but it is not all that different from the protection for responsibility that our legal and financial systems have created.
examples:
End of Entrepreneurship How much risk is their today in being a high level corporate maanager? Company failes, you get a golden parachute.
Unequal Before the Law At $300 and rising, attorney’s fees are beyond the mean of the middle and lower classes. You get fucked by a car dealer. Forgettboutit, sayeth the lawyer. Or she will suggest a compromise to save YOU money. Only the rich can stand up in court in civil cases. Criminal cases are even worse. Can the rich get away with murder? Ask OJ Simpson.
The Power of the Emperor Ordinary government employess routinely get fired for deeds far less serious than the incompetence of the high governement officials. BUT, to make it worse, they too have golden parachutes … actually theirs are platinum. John McCain, Bill Clinton, DD Eisenhower, Bill Dole, Harry Truman, Sunny Jim (I suspect)…. all these folks came to office with VERY modest means yet, when fired or retired somehow had become wealthy. Utter idiots like Dan Quayle, parlay their failures into cushy well paying jobs. How is this different from the life long support in luxury we see for exiled princes and commissars?
Martha Stewart and Mike Millikan Go on Vacation Siggh, these two ripped off our system for unfathomable amounts of money. Yet, both served relatively pleasant times in prison followed by a return to society where they were still rich. These penalties are almost worthy of Gilbert and Sullivan,
****************************************
WE need a kinder version of Mao’s cultural revolution to flatten this classism in our country.
Here are some thoughts:
1. On a competitive basis, university education should be free,
2. Impoverishment should be made a punishment for crimes that cost others their wealth. If found guilty, youi would be allowed to retain no more than an amount of wealth that reflects your crime.
3.Enhanced Small Claims Court What if
we created an enhanced small claims court where the AG representing US could even the playing field a bit in civil matters? Such a court might even have the interesting ability to sue for damages from companies or individuals now protected by lout system. Presumably such damages could make that court self financing.
CJS spews:
And that really kind of leads to the conclusion that John McCain has been, and still is, massively and consistently wrong on Iraq
—————
Well, he certainly wasn’t wrong about the surge, which is making discussion of a 16 month withdrawal even realistic. Regarding the withdrawal schedule, the reaction from Iraqis on the timetable has been far more nuanced – yes, they want the Americans to leave; but yes, they want the security the surge has produced.
We’ll have to see how this plays out. As William Fallon noted, the issue isn’t as simple as in or out.
An issue that is emerging for some on the left is Afghanistan. Obama and McCain each propose big troop “surges” as Iraq becomes more stable and resources free up. Why the US is taking the lead here in troops and costs while NATO must be begged for a 1000 troops here and a 1000 there is a reasonable question. If this is the critical front against terrorism, where are the Russians and Chinese and Indians? And is there also going to be a timetable for the Karzai government (which has been heavily criticized for its lack of progress in key areas) in return for our blood and money?
If our costs in Afghanistan rise steadily year after year, it will become the new flash point for an American administration.
Lee spews:
@45
If you believe that retraction was not due to pressure from the Bush Administration, you’re the most naive person on the planet.
Another TJ spews:
If you believe that retraction was not due to pressure from the Bush Administration, you’re the most naive person on the planet.
Especially when you consider the Iraqi government didn’t release the statement, CENTCOM did.
Roger Rabbit spews:
Factoid: State spending rose 31% in Gov. Gregoire’s first term.* It rose 36% in the first term of our last GOP governor, John Spellman.
* Much of this is deferred spending from the Locke administration, which was hamstrung by the GOP obstructionists who controlled the state senate for 10 years, and also by the First Bush Recession of 2001.
Daddy Love spews:
55 cjs
Although he wouldn’t withdraw, so it’s a moot point about McCain, right? I mean, if things were getting better, he’d stay there because of that, and if things were getting worse, he’d stay there because of that.
But regarding the “success” of the
escalationsurge, it is true now that we’re paying off the Sunnis and now that the ethnic cleansing and partitioning of Baghdad is complete that things are a little quieter. But there’s not only no oil law, but the Kurds are unilaterally making oil deals, the Shiites are forming a number of anti-Occupation groups, the elections probably won’t happen because there’s no agreement in the government, and in the midst of all of this the Prime Minister of Iraq says he thinks we should leave. The “success of the surge” is a rhetorical device to hide that our occupying army is hated by the occupied.That’s just a load of horsehit. Prime Minister Nouri could not have been more clear when he said:
“US presidential candidate Barack Obama talks about 16 months. That, we think, would be the right timeframe for a withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes.”
William Fallon is a miltary man, and we have civilian control. He’ll bloody well do as he is told or he’s out. Don’t pretend that Bush hasn’t sacked every military man who disagreed with him.
No, Barack Obama says we’ll use troops freed when we withdraw from Iraq to send to Afghanistan. John McCain will not withdraw from Iraq for 100 years and says that additional troops in Afghanistan should come from NATO, a recogntion that while we stay in Iraq there are no troops to send. But Europe won’t send additional troops because they don’t want to cooperate with a nation of militaristic torturers, which we would remain under a McCain administration.
One could say the same about Iraq, no?
Daddy Love spews:
58 RR
And half or the increase is in education, with an additional 10% in corrections. Much of the educatioal increases were due to voter iniatitives that raised tacher pay, but Governor Gregoire has increased the pay of our underpaid corrections officers.
CJS spews:
Carl,
“That’s just a load of horsehit. Prime Minister Nouri could not have been more clear when he said:”
Let’s not confuse what Prime Minister (Nouri) al-Maliki says to a German newspaper with what everyone in Iraq feels. See, for example:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01682.html
or
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....755_2.html
Incidentally, according to an al-Maliki spokesman, the comments the prime minister made to the German magazine Der Spiegel were “misunderstood and mistranslated” and were not “conveyed accurately.” See:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.....bama-plan/
So, maybe they could have been more clear, eh? I’d give this story time to sort itself out.
“William Fallon is a miltary man, and we have civilian control. He’ll bloody well do as he is told or he’s out.”
But he is out – he’s retired and at the M.I.T. Center for International Studies.
“No, Barack Obama says we’ll use troops freed when we withdraw from Iraq to send to Afghanistan. John McCain will not withdraw from Iraq for 100 years and says that additional troops in Afghanistan should come from NATO, a recogntion that while we stay in Iraq there are no troops to send.”
The original point being made was Afghanistan could emerge as a growing issue for the left if it demands more and more US blood and money. See, for example:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....12728.html
Obama, if he’s elected, could easily find himself facing growing criticism at home on this topic (just as Nixon did).
“But Europe won’t send additional troops because they don’t want to cooperate with a nation of militaristic torturers,”
Can you provide support for this?
ByeByeGOP spews:
It’s interesting to see just how much distance there is between reality and the jizz that the right wing turds spew here. Even republican talking heads on TV say the “GOP” is in deep shit this time around. Perhaps our local inbred idiots just can’t face facts.
ByeByeGOP spews:
Now THIS is a fucking fantastic idea. We need to do this in every Democratic state in the country!
seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1120ap_presidential_putdown.html?source=mypi
Daddy Love spews:
61 cjs
Let’s not confuse cherry-picked interviews with unrepresentative Iraqis with survey results. The plural of “anecdote” is not “data.” According to the University of Maryland’s Program on International Policy Attitudes poll reported in in the WaPo, “About six in 10 Iraqis say they approve of attacks on U.S.-led forces, and slightly more than that want their government to ask U.S. troops to leave within a year…” And according to a poll by ABC News (February-March 2007) and media partners, “four in five Iraqis oppose the presence of U.S. troops,” and 51% of the Iraqi population approve of the attacks on Coalition forces, growing to over 90% of the Arab Sunni approving of such attacks.
You mean, according to the “spokesman” in a statement issued not by the Iraqi government but rather by the Army of Occupation, Mr. Maliki’s statement had been “not conveyed accurately” but fails to name a single innacuracy. This stands in pretty stark contrast to al-Maliki’s on the record interview with Der Spiegel in which his comments were not at all ambiguous and during which time he repeatedly returned to the subject of thinking that Obama’s proposals are the right framework within which to proceed.
Roger Rabbit spews:
@60 Yes, if Rossi were honest, he’d tell voters that the only way to build an 8-lane 520 bridge while cutting state spending is to cut teacher pay, fire prison guards, and release felons. But he’s not honest. He’s a sleazy real estate salesman who enthusiastically worked for a crooked broker who went to jail for fraud.
Daddy Love spews:
61 cjs
So, if things change, they will be different in some way. Striking in its depth. Nothing president Obama has yet said indicates that he would support a huge, open-ended involvement in Afghanistan, and his record argues against it.
And, of course, nothing will be going on on the right while this is suposedly happening. I may be too busy watching the back-stabbing and fratricidal quarrels as the losers form their usual circular firing squad to think about Afghanistan.
But [a] Our military investment in Afghanistan is miniscule, shared with actual allies, and is easily supportable once we leave Iraq. And [b] Nixon was a lying son of a bitch who claimed to have a plan to leave Vietnam but never intended any such thing, and when we fianlly saw through that of course we were pissed.
CJS spews:
The plural of “anecdote” is not “data.” According to the University of Maryland’s Program on International Policy Attitudes poll reported in in the WaPo, “About six in 10 Iraqis say they approve of attacks on U.S.-led forces, and slightly more than that want their government to ask U.S. troops to leave within a year…”
—————
Carl,
That poll was taken nearly two years ago when violence was raging. This poll:
“And according to a poll by ABC News (February-March 2007) and media partners, “four in five Iraqis oppose the presence of U.S. troops,”
was also taken when violence was raging. As the poll notes:
“The major cause for this sharp reversal in Iraqi attitudes is the continuing violence — bombings, attacks by roving gunmen and kidnappings — that has overwhelmed the country since the U.S. invasion four years ago this week.”
Now that this violence has dropped off dramatically the question is have they changed their views on the value and duration of the American support. The WAPO articles – which were current – touched on that. This will have to play out – let’s see what poll data says in the months ahead.
Regarding this:
“You mean, according to the “spokesman” in a statement issued not by the Iraqi government but rather by the Army of Occupation”
I don’t mean anything – I simply passed on a story. The story quotes an al-Maliki spokesman, Ali al-Dabbagh. As I said, we’ll have to see if this story has legs.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/.....index.html
“But Europe won’t send additional troops because they don’t want to cooperate with a nation of militaristic torturers,”
Again, where is your support for this claim?
CJS spews:
So, if things change, they will be different in some way. Striking in its depth. Nothing president Obama has yet said indicates that he would support a huge, open-ended involvement in Afghanistan, and his record argues against it.
—————
Carl,
Tom Hayden is hardly the only one asking these questions regarding Obama’s thinking on Afghanistan. See:
http://www.thenation.com/blogs.....pid=337748
for example. The point is – the only point being made – is elements of the left are always raising this as a concern. It is what is it.
Stephen Schwartz spews:
69 Obamism
I for one hope that Obama is NOT the knee jerk, simple minded, follow the leader some here seem to thin he might be.
The issues in Afghanistan are utterly different form those in Iraq, not the least because th dangerous folks live across the Pki border .. in a nulcear country with real teeth.
Also, unlike iraq, Afghanistan has a long history of figh8itng for it sonw freedom and the occupying fors is actually mutinational.
Roger Rabbit spews:
Voting Republican is immoral.
Daddy Love spews:
68 cjs
Who’s Carl?
Juan Cole has also questioned a further involvement in Afghanistan. Good men may disagree. Historically, occupying that nation has not worked out well. Bit if we decided to partner with them to finally keep the promises on which George W. Bush reneged, perhaps it will work out a bit better.
Roger Rabbit spews:
I’m reading a book about what companies do to bust unions. If you’re for the union, they’ll assign you to dangerous and unpleasant work to get you to quit, and if that doesn’t work, they’ll fabricate misconduct charges against you and fire you. Some union busters even call pro-union employees’ wives and tell them their husbands are cheating on them. Who would work for a company like that? I won’t! In fact, I don’t work at all! I’m what’s called “financially independent.” I live in a hole in the ground in a public park and eat grass, so I don’t need a job or money. I’ve made a deal with America’s employers and it works like this: They don’t employ me, and I don’t work for them, or buy their products. My answer to the Cheap Labor Economy is the No Labor Economy. They don’t employ me, and I don’t work. I produce nothing for them and buy nothing from them, and they make nothing for me and sell nothing to me, and nobody has any money, and everyone’s happy because we don’t fight over money!
ByeByeGOP spews:
President Obama says we should look at Pakistan as a potential problem; the Bush regime and their ilk attack – then quietly agree…
President Obama says 16 months is a reasonable time frame to get most of our troops out of Iraq; the Bush regime and their ilk attack – then quietly agree along with Iraq’s leadership and even FlipFlop McCain…
Roger Rabbit spews:
@16 The reason Congress is so unpopular is because they’re not jailing Republicans fast enough.
Richard Pope spews:
We could sure use a new comment thread — this one is 27 hours old already!
KARL ROVE SUCKS — but that is old news already. How about focusing on how Rossi and McCain suck, or better yet, how Gregoire is doing a good job already and how Obama will do a better job than the fellow he will be succeeding?
Richard Pope spews:
Roger Rabbit @ 65
“@60 Yes, if Rossi were honest, he’d tell voters that the only way to build an 8-lane 520 bridge while cutting state spending is to cut teacher pay, fire prison guards, and release felons. But he’s not honest.”
Actually, Rossi is also promising to build more prisons and hire more guards, so that felons won’t be given early releases. He is also promising to increase sentences, so felons serve more time — which will further increase the need for prisons and prison guards.
Rossi is also promising to “balance” the budget next biennium, and does not propose to cut any programs. Rossi is not proposing to increase taxes either.
Instead, Rossi will pay for all this increased spending by CUTTING state taxes. This strategy worked very well for Ronald Reagan in 1981, and for George W. Bush in 2001. Unfortunately for Rossi, the state of Washington cannot legally borrow to cover state operating deficits, and (unlike the federal government) does not have the right to print its own currency.
Richard Pope spews:
Back in 2004, I read the platforms that Gregoire and Rossi posted on their websites. At the time (although looking at things from a bit different political perspective), it seemed to me that both candidates had promises and programs that could reasonably be implemented. In other words, their promises could basically be kept.
This time around, Rossi is promising everything to everybody, with absolutely no way to come close to keeping his promises. There is no possible way to do everything Rossi is promising, while at the same time CUTTING state taxes and dealing with the projected deficit that would occur next biennium at the present level of spending and taxation.
Roger Rabbit spews:
@76 Apparently he expects state employees to work without pay …
Stephen Schwartz spews:
@73 Obamism
Actually, stripped of rhetoric, Obhama and McCain have saiud very similar things about Iraq and Afhagnistan all along.
The biggest differences are:
BHO offers a global view while McC focuses on something claled victory that he can not define.
Oddly, of the two it is Obama whose positions are more mature.
Richard Pope spews:
Roger Rabbit @ 78
Maybe Rossi hasn’t thought of that approach yet? Submit your “IDEA”, and you can receive a special award from Lou Guzzo.
ByeByeGOP spews:
@79 No actually FlipFlop McCain has only recently started talking about Afhagnistan in the same light as President Obama. McCain has morphed his position on Iraq and Afhagnistan several times since 2000.
Stephen Schwartz spews:
@81
The process distorts, BUT from the beignining, NcCain supported a rational, military, Powell doctrine approach. So fois Obama.
The difference was that when Presisnet Dumbasabush effed up, Obama called out the truth abut the emperor’s clothes, saying we have lost, we can no longer “win,” so we need a well planned withdrawal.
McCain also said Bush had effed up BUT he said we could rescue some of the F up by bringing on Petraeus and his strategy. McC was correect.
Now the issue is what they would REALLY do differently? I supect not much. Both understand the military facts on the ground .. we need to control Afghanistan of only to keep the Taliban form controlling Pakistan. Both understand that we need an Indian Ocean strategy and that this probably means an expanded alliance with Chin or India to clean up the pirates of Somalia beofe they start going after tankers and to restrain Iran’s options as a sea gowing nuclear power.
Leaving aside rhetoric, my bet is that McC has no idea what he emans by victory in Iraq and would gladly settle for the same stategic withdrawal Obama has talked about for several years ..that is withdraw in strength!
What specifics do YOU thnbk BHO and JMcMcC would do differently?
Stephen Schwartz spews:
FLASH ….
Reichert vote FOR Kucinich’s impeachment bill!