…and unlike Goldy, I don’t have as cerebral a response:
The film was funny, it was moving, and yes, at times it was uplifting. I laughed out loud throughout, which those who know me well will tell you is a huge compliment indeed. The film also brought tears to my eyes on a number of occasions.
I laughed too, and at the end, when the Cuban firefighters honor the Americans who volunteered at Ground Zero on 9/11, the floodgates opened, and I wept. I surprised myself, and I was glad the theater wasn’t full. It was an especially touching moment.
I went in the theater as a healthcare reform moderate, a sort of “mend it, don’t end it” attitude towards our current health insurance system. (Matt Miller, a fellow at the Center for American Progress, has some creative ideas that fit this definition.) I did not support Congressman (and doctor) Jim McDermott’s health plan. After leaving the theater, I’m a changed guy.
It’s war. It’s the American people on one side, and the insurance companies and their DC lackeys on the other. What’s needed is an old timey ass whoopin’, a beating, a clock cleanin’. The for-profit health care system needs to become a historical curiosity, an urban legend, an anachronism. In 50 years at Drinking Liberally, I want young bloggers gathered around a “Joel Connelly” type character while he regales them with stories of how things used to be. You mean people used to go broke from medical bills? they’ll say. The wise, aged columnist will reply, It was a different time.
We need to blow up our current system and replace it with a government-run health care system that serves the needs of every American and is beholden to no corporate bottom line. Considering health care outcomes in America routinely trail those in other countries, I think it is only a matter of time until Americans get what they’ve paid for: a health care system that works.
Damn straight, Skippy.
Of course, you overlook that fact that taxpayers are already paying the cost of health care. While an employee’s pay is taxed, congress specifically exempts the benefit of health insurance provided as part of that pay from taxation. In other words, Congress passes up about $250 Billion dollars in tax revenues from income tax.
We also have a sort of universal health care in the US, it’s called the county hospital system.
We need to find a way to better organize and gain more for our money. After all, we do indeed have the most expensive health care system in the western world, but have a lower life expectancy & a worse infant death rate.
Exactly which part of:
“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
do you not get?
This exchange between me and Proud Leftist is so good, I am going to post it in every thread on HA from now on. It destroys the Publicans’ stupid talking points – period.
“I’m working really hard to understand how President Bill Clinton’s actions act as justifcation for the righties. Read this fuckwads.
If your lame ass argument is that Bill Clinton was a bad President – which is what you say – and if your argument now is that the AWOL coward GW Bush is in someway comparable to Bill Clinton, what you are actually saying is that GW Bush is NO BETTER THAN CLINTON.
Does it hurt to be that stupid? I really want to know.
proud leftist says:
RES @ 18
You’ve hit it on the nose. The rightwing fringefucks consider Clinton to be the personification of evil–indeed, he is the devil incarnate in their twisted little minds. Nonetheless, their justification for all of the Bushites’ sins is, always, “well, Clinton did it, too.” Methinks they never studied logic.”
And what’s better, is that the rightie traitor keeps pointing out that this is true. Thanks MTR. Please keep proving my point for me.
WILL, MY WIFE WORKS AT A LOCAL PUBLIC HOSPITAL. SHE KNOWS SOMEONE THERE WHO WAS A HIGHER UP AT A HIGH-FLYING INSURANCE COMPANY.
THIS PERSON LEFT THAT INSURER IN TOTAL DISGUST TO WORK THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE AT THE HOSPITAL.
SHE SAYS EVERYTHING IN SICKO IS TOTALLY TRUE.
EVERYONE SHOULD SEE THIS FILM, BUY THE DVD AND THEN WORK TO CHANGE THE SYSTEM.
“It’s war.”
Whoa! That may be a first for a Michael Moore film.
Who’s joining me at the “ENOUGH” demo on Sunday?
Of all my friends and family who have struggled with cancer, none of them have ever wanted to travel to Cuba or Canada for treatment. Have you known anybody who has preferred those inferior medical systems over ours?
I don’t know why all of you want to replace the greatest medical system in the world (despite its faults) with a Michael-Moore-Hillary-Clinton-state-run system.
You’re more driven by socialistic politics than humanity and economics.
Mark,
Your battle with mental illness and delusional states has not benefitted from this “superior” system.
re 6: That,”… greatest (blah-de-blah-blah- whatever fill in the blank)in the world (despite its faults)” argument is a little threadbare, at this point in time.
How ’bout this variation on that theme: “(George W. Bush is the)greatest (madman, wingnut president) in the world (despite his faults, which are irredeemable).
Of all my friends and family who have struggled with cancer, none of them have ever wanted to travel to Cuba or Canada for treatment. Have you known anybody who has preferred those inferior medical systems over ours?
Actually, large numbers of Americans are starting to go to places like Thailand and India to have surgery. And I’ve met plenty of Canadians who think their system is much better than ours.
Our medical system is not the best in the world by any measure.
6 “I don’t know why all of you want to replace the greatest medical system in the world”
Because it isn’t any more, plain and simple.
6 – MOORE DERANGEMENT SYNDROME ALERT.
@11
Sponsored by Pfizer.
Lt. Suits, KVI, did well with this nonsense. Start with this: Tyrant-for-“Life” Fidel Castro took his diverticulitis not to a Cuban doctor but to a surgeon from Spain, educated in the United States.
Moore lied. As neurosurgeon Sanjay Gupta demonstrated on CNN, Moore’s own source showed that Cuban mortality/morbidity stats are worse than ours, and that the USA gives (via ERs) or sells better care. Cuba’s inferior stats are further skewed by two actual facts:
* 1/3 of Cuba’s population, including the sickos of the Mariel invasion, have fled their workers’ paradise;
* Cuba’s AIDS victims are in virtual concentration camps where they get little treatment and are rarely counted in computations of comparitive public health.
Moore’s response to Gupta? He accused him and all Sicko deniers of being shills for Big Pharma. He then implied that Dok-tor San-jay Goooop-ta was an enemy of the people. Goooop-ta is the fashionably progressive way of saying macaca.
“Our medical system is not the best in the world by any measure.”
Question: How do you measure the usually free care provided to 12,000,000 – 20,000,000 “undocumented” guests who use our medical system, often free of charge? To what extent does the incursion of uninvited Third-World diseases into our overwhelmeed system skew our numbers?
re 13&14: Spin.
No, it’s a question. Forgive my redundunancy (free care … free of charge) but I’m truly curious about comparisons of health care. How is a valid comparison of Mexico and Cuba (exporters of disease) to the U.S. (an importer) possible, aside from asserting that it’s racist to ask the question?
Is a valid comparison of Canada (30 million) to the US (300 million) possible? Or of the US (with about 30% of GDP diverted to taxes) to France (about 65%)? Factor in the fact that our estimates of illegal entrants vary by almost 10 million, and we have a statistical quagmire for which the only way out is the Moore expedient: cherrypick intel. He takes only data (after twisting them) and talks only to selected consumers who seem to validate his biases.
@16 Killa
I just saw the movie and it is wonderful. yes it is is a polemic and there are inaccuracies but the overall mesafge is correct: Americans pat a huge amont of money for a health care system that is no better than that in other states and, in our case, creates huge personal economic disparities.
As to your questions:
1. Exporter/importer of disease. I doubt the US is any less of an exporter than anyone else. For example we export a lot of AIDS because our system does less to control the HIV population than some others. We also export disases assciated with environmental issues. Our major “import” is probably the flu, but that is a reflection of the virus’ life cycle. Even if Asia was cleaned up, it s likley the virus would evolve another cycle.
2. 12l immigrants. I suspect their impact is minimal. Most studies of the illegals say that they generate enough taxes to cover the costs of ntheir presence in the USA.
3. Taxes vs fees. Here you are correct. Nothing is “free,” In most countries education and healthcare are supported by taxes. In all cases, tax supported or single payer systems are less expensive than our system. This is net expense .. including taxes.
Why US System is So Expensive: a balanced view
The US system is so expensive becasue of three things, not all are bad:
1. Administrative overhead. We pay at least 30% more than other countries for admin. Our manipulates free emarket system does not work economically.
2. We hide our real taxes. A large part of every hospital bill hides shared costs.This includes the costs of those who can not afford to pay. In effect there is a tax on those who can afford to pay. We also hide shared social costs .. e.g, every death SHOULD lead to an autopsdy. The real frequency is much smaller than that but we all pay for this shared service.
3. We subsidize the world. Our research and development creates technology and drugs that then are much less expensive in the whole world.
4. We do not ration care. If you got the bucks you can get anything done here. This adds to our overall expense. Americans have more access to everything … transplants, reconstructive surgery, prolonged anti cancer Rx, than any other people. This costs $$$.
5. We have no incentives to be cost efficient other than, as Moore says, cutting care.
6. We draw out death. Americans take a very long time t die, incurring a lost of coats.
Bottom line for me, we are SUPPOSED to bea society of opportunity. Our current system is extremely regressive, creates huge class disparities, and does not dleiver betetr health care to anyone but the very rich,
Can someone explain why the cost of non-insurance procedures (boob jobs, botox, etc.) are dropping because the doctors have to compete for the customers.
You miss the point. Doctor’s fees are NOT the part of heath care tht is going up. What are increasing:
1. Numbers of procedures. I doi not know for sure abut your example but if what you are saying is true the numbers of procedures are increasing. This includes elective procedures. More things done more cost. The issue is NOT the cost of getting each thing done, the issue is total cost.
2. Admin. Administrative overhead is monstrous and growing. This is not simply the third part payer issue. For example, there ia s a law called HIPAA that controls how much of your personal information a doctor can share with ANYONE else. The estimates about the cost of administering compliance with this innane law are in the mutliple bioolions of dollars.
3. Labor. A large part of any medical bill is labor and a lot of that ..aside form docs .. is highly skilled. Many forms of health care are very labor intensive and this addss costs too.
4. High tech/.drugs. Cancer(s) are often cured today. CURED = a miracle. This miracle costs $$$ ro develope and give. A drug I hjave worked on peripherally can extend a patients life by months to years but costs someone (patient of government) as much as 100,000/year.
Moreover, it si not JUST highpriced drigs like this. Drug companies prefer lower cost drugs that require long term therapy. E.g. the “statins” lower cholesterol and extend life span by 2-5 years. Each pill costs little, but the annual costs/pt. are humongous.
5. Preventitive medicine Aside form mythilogy, PM usually COST money, not saves it. Why? Our death rates is a constant at 1/life. If we live longer , we also live more years where we need drugs. This cost money.
Hillary’s original analysis was absolutely correct and we would be a lot better off now if she had done a better job of the politics and the fucking Publicans had NOT tried to turn an American issue into personal politics.
How To Fix Health Care
Confiscate the 25% of health care dollars that insurance companies get for denying claims away from them and spend it on (a) covering the 17% of Americans who aren’t insured, and (b) use the remaining 8% to improve care and/or cut premiums.
The private sector spends 25% of our health care dollars on processing claims. The government-run Medicare program is 50 times as efficient, spending only 1/2% of program dollars on A & O (administration and overhead). Another fucking failure of free enterprise.