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I guess it wasn’t an entirely lame “lame duck session” after all

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One of the most moving moments of last summer’s Netroot’s Nation, was when our very own Joan McCarter gave Lt. Dan Choi’s West Point ring to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, insisting that he not give it back until Don’t Ask Don’t Tell was repealed. Today, Sen. Reid gave Lt. Choi his ring back.

Comments

  1. 1

    This is a moment to savor. It made me choke up (seriously).

    But let’s not forget that it (and some other things like START) required we piss away $900B AND expose SSI to defunding and cuts (and touted it as a feature!), with no evidence there will be any effective resistance to R insanity going forward.

    But at least now our gay brothers and sisters get to be themselves AND choose to be maimed and die for global capitalism just like every other American!

  3. 3

    And there’s this…

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/.....costs.html
    The U.S. Congress approved legislation today to help rescuers and clean-up crews suffering from illnesses linked to the wreckage caused by the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in New York City.

    But, don’t get your hopes up, we didn’t pass a reasonable way to pay for the 4.3B worth of spending blockquoted above and we’re still royally fucked.

  6. 6

    Thanks for sharing this. A great moment, even when seen from someone well to your right politically. I’ve never understood my fellow travelers issue with gays serving. A patriot is a patriot. I honor them for their service.

  7. 7

    Not to diminish or minimize the moment, of course, but with the US fighting six wars without the draft, and recruiters out trolling for the poor, the emotionally vulnerable, and sometimes even the criminal to fill the ranks, to turn away upstanding and skilled gay service persons makes no sense at all–that is, to anyone except John McCain et al.

    On the 9/11 first responders, here is another brave American whose story brings a lump to the throat: http://www.democracynow.org/20.....unerals_in

  9. 9

    My late gay uncle who saw combat in the Korean War would be proud of this moment. I wonder how many wingnuts impugned his Americanism over the years?

  11. 11

    Now that DADT was repealed will the HA moronic class demand all universities allow ROTC to come back to their campuses?

  12. 12

    Well good. To heck with all these special categories and special rights. Now if your country needs you, you just go. No claiming you’re gay and therefore exempt.

  16. 16

    However, I personally don’t think it’s beyond the pale to argue that training college students to kill their fellow human beings is inconsistent with the academic mission of colleges that teach, for example, humanities.

  17. 17

    I mean, if you really want to be an Army officer, then enlist and volunteer for OCS, ya know? OCS officers are better in combat than those ROTC weenies anyway.

  18. 18

    Looks like Roger Dumb Rabbit doesn’t understand the meaning of ALL.

    All – The whole SUM. ALL as in the United States of America!

    IF and now ALL. What small word will Roger Dumb Rabbit fail on next?

  21. 21

    pudge @ 19

    How long did you have to look to find a counter example?

    Do you have any reason to believe that WWU disallows RTOC on campus?

    A Coast Guard recruiter might be worthwhile. But WWU isn’t exactly the Rumsfeld’s Army target audience.

    My bro is a WWU alum as well as in the Naval Reserves. I’ll ask him what he thinks about your unsubstantiated (entirely made up) allegations.

    I just found the closest Army recruiter. (You’ve heard of Google, right? Something you might want to add to your arsenal.)

    The recruiter is 6 miles away from campus. Right next to Bellis Fair. I’m thinking the recruiters will be more likely to find potentials fitting Rumsfeld’s requirements there. Better bang for the buck, if you will.

    Any way. Carry on.

  22. 22

    I’m glad for the repeal of DADT and re-ratification of Reagan’s START. Of course.

    Why would the Republicans consent to these things? They’re committed to all obstruction all the time.

    My theory is that homosexuality is no longer a wedge issue. START was never a wedgie. And even the GOP could figure out that opposing healthcare for 9/11 responders was really stupid.

    Were these wedge issues, something they could pound Democrats with, chew toys for them to gnaw on endlessly, there’s no way they’d let it go.

  23. 23

    Pud- I do not believe we should demand ALL Washington universities offer ROTC. It certainly should be available at some, perhaps most. And if a student wants it, they should be able to find it. And if a student and/or university do not, they should also be free to make that choice.

  24. 24

    Puddy, aren’t you happy that everyone that wants to serve their country can do it now?

    And as far as ROTC goes, does WWU and TESC forbid ROTC or do they just don’t have ROTC because the market wont support it?

  26. 26

    Is the Evergreen curriculum, and their grading system, the type that ROTC candidates would like in sufficient numbers to support the program? Do the military services want the types of folks who go to Evergreen? Does Pud care about what makes sense or simply does he simply grandstand?

  27. 27

    K @ 26

    Good question. Does pudge have an interest in this issue? Did he go thru RTOC? If not, why would he care?

    My theory is projection, as in the psychological transfer of one’s own guilt onto one’s imagined enemies. The GOP treats the military and veterans like crap. Whereas the Democrats routinely go to the matt to try to provide the resources and services our personnel and veterans need and (frankly) earned.

    So of course a right wing tool has to attack a left wing strong point, to better mask their own (habitual) failings.

    Support the troops indeed. As Bill Maher said of the yellow magnet ribbons, What more could a suburban SUV driving conservative possibly do?

  28. 28

    @22: The Rs are terrorists. They just freed some troublesome hostages they could have been forced to release anyway. Even in the next congress.

  29. 29

    @27: Psycho-pathology is definitely at issue, but I have yet to see Pudpuller have an original thought.

    It’s not complicated, Jason.

    He just read some bullshit at RedState or FreeRepublic, etc. and brought it up here.

    I monitor the wingnutosphere and it’s their “outrage of the day” since DADT got cloture.

  30. 30

    One can see which schools in any one state offer ROTC programs, and by all ROTC programs or by specific program. Here’s Washington. You can click on ROTC and choose another state.

    http://colleges.collegetoolkit.....ram/1.aspx

    Kind of meaningless to anyone but the addle-brained Puddy, but whatever. There they are. Maybe he’ll go through the exercise of listing all the colleges and universities in Alabamba and come back and tell us which schools don’t offer ROTC programs. Hell, do it for all fifty fucking states. Maybe then he’ll have an actual fucking point to make, but I kind of doubt it. I’m sure that if the database actually revealed anything useful to a wingnut that the Wingnut Central Talking Points Clearing House would already have it sorted out and distributed to all the wingnut freakazoids like Puddy.

  31. 31

    @20 WWU has never had ROTC, so they weren’t kicked off that campus. Maybe because ROTC doesn’t want to be there? It seems to me they would concentrate their resources on campuses where recruitment is best.

    Asking ROTC to leave campuses is a 1960s issue. Puddy’s head seems to be stuck about 45 years up his rectum. He’s one of those wingnuts who can’t get past hippies, pot, anti-war protests, and Kerry tossing somebody else’s medals over a fence. At age 60, he’s still 18 years old.

  32. 32

    @22 “And even the GOP could figure out that opposing healthcare for 9/11 responders was really stupid.”

    That didn’t stop them from doing it. Don’t forget the overwhelming majority of their caucus voted against the first responder bill. Yes, they’re really stupid, and no, they couldn’t figure out it was really stupid.

  35. 35

    Notice the Pud M.O.: enter a nice conversation, make inflammatory and incoherent statement, leave without responding to rebuttal.

    Like I said on another thread, it’s like you’re having a party with intelligent interesting people, and the weird guy from across the street barges in, takes a dump on the coffee table, then yells, “HA! I showed you sucka!! Stoopid Stoopid!!” and then runs out the door laughing unhinged-ly HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    Typical, and tedious.

  36. 36

    How long did you have to look to find a counter example?

    This is Puddy not Pudge. Why didn’t you ask Roger Dumb Rabbit first how long it took him to try and provide a counter example to Puddy’s request?

    Butt Noooooooooooooooooo gotta attack Puddy instead because once again Puddy made the leftist hero Roger Dumb Rabbit look stupid. Puddy also knew of Harvard, Brown, Yale, etc. So how long did it take? Less time than it took Roger Dumb Rabbit to look for those who provide ROTC.

  38. 38

    As always Lib Unscientist reverts to gibberish.

    Notice the Pud M.O.: enter a nice conversation, make inflammatory and incoherent statement, leave without responding to rebuttal.

    Puddy was out at a meeting Lib Unscientist. Just got back. Puddy ain’t on your schedule. Puddy told you this over and over and over. BTW you are part of the HA moronic class. You slavishly accept things that Roger Dumb Rabbit says as gospel. Roger Dumb Rabbit knows who he is so he immediately answered back. Some others take longer to realize who you are. Must be the liberal brain trauma from being slapped with facts over and over and the cranial pressure affects reaction time.

    So Lib Unscientist claims it was incoherent. Funny Roger Dumb Rabbit understood it perfectly and with little delay. So what does that say about you Lib Unscientist. Moronic and Idiotic? And Puddy gave an immediate rebuttal with two local WA universities.

    You are stooooooooooopid Lib Unscientist. Puddy realizes someone like you would be the last to realize your stooooooooooopidity.

  39. 39

    Michael,

    Why do you need to understand what Puddy thinks about DADT? It’s your side screaming loud and proud. All Puddy asked was now that you all got your way and it’s repealed, what will the HA moronic class say to the colleges and universities who didn’t have ROTC because of DADT?

    Go back to being the dullard and ask him/yourself.

  40. 40

    ‘Cause I want to know how you feel about it. Should gays be able to serve? That’s what the thread’s all about, after all.

    You chicken to tell us what you think?

  41. 41

    Once again Stupid Solution Steve doesn’t remember the demonstrations at certain liberal universities. This is why Stupid Solution Steve is Stupid.

    Remember Elena Kagan Stupid Solution Steve? She implemented this at Harvard University… Harvard’s ROTC webpage states: “Current federal policy of excluding known lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals from admission to ROTC or of discharging them from service is inconsistent with Harvard’s values as stated in its policy on discrimination.”

    Remember Columbia University President Lee Bollinger Stupid Solution Steve? In 2005, due to “discriminatory DADT” on gays, Bollinger voted to not reinstate the ROTC program.

    Or how about University of Pennsylvania Stupid Solution Steve? They banned ROTC due to “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” and this caused UoP to disallow campus ROTC programs.

    How does it feel to have the stupid slapped out of you Stupid Solution Steve? As we get closer to Christmas the more Stooooooooooopid you’ve become.

  42. 42

    Michael,

    Do you remember anything at all? Puddy already commented on it. Ask ylb cuz Puddy doesn’t need to replay all his comments to the dullard who can’t remember anything!

  43. 43

    @42

    So you really are just a chicken shit loser then…

    Come on you big chicken shit, just say that you don’t think gays should serve…

  44. 44

    WOW! The dump is getting bigger and bigger. He must have hit the Miralax HARD today, and we’re seeing the result. Floodgates are OPEN!

  45. 45

    Come on Puddy, tell us all about how Teh Gays are evil…

    Chicken shit…

  47. 47

    He just read some bullshit at RedState or FreeRepublic, etc. and brought it up here.

    Wrong again zitz for brains. Didn’t got to either location. Good try. In fact Puddy didn’t go to any web site. Puddy knows where to find things previously read.

  48. 48

    @45
    Pud will never do that. It takes a stand up kinda guy to do that – speak his truth proudly despite the slings and arrows of his adversaries.
    Pud is a coward and a lunatic.

  49. 49

    So you really are just a chicken shit loser then…

    Nope Dullard. You ask ylb since you are so interested. Call Puddy anything you like. Puddy already answered the question before and when Puddy wants to respond to a question Puddy will. When Puddy chooses not to, sucks to be you.

    If you wanna know ask ylb. Stop being a chickenshit memory deficient libtardo and ask him. Missing your balls again Dullard? You ask he’ll tell. He’ll visit his databaze and respond back at ya.

  50. 50

    Lib Unscientist,

    Puddy’s previous DADT answer on this blog is easy to find. Butt if you have a problem with your Google search you can grow a set and ask ylb. Otherwise you’re pissing in the wind like the Dullard above.

  51. 51

    Pud is a coward and a lunatic.

    Nope you Dope. Puddy works hard for a living. Can’t be either of those and make big bucks. Puddy don’t sit on his ASS all day reading kook-aid sites and blogging all day on HA.

  52. 52

    Lib Unscientist loves to discuss things in psychotropics and psychodelics and other prescription drugs.

    How many drugs do you take a day?

  53. 53

    Chicken shit…

    Tell ya’ what, I’ll even answer your question to sweeten the pot.

    I think ROTC should be done away with and I think colleges should be free to ban whatever post-college recruiters they don’t want on their campus. I think it should be illegal for high schools to turnover the name of any of their students to anyone, like military recruiters, with out that student’s consent and that they should also be free to ban recruiters from whatever they feel is a bad fit for their students from campus.

    People that choose to enlist in the military after college should have their student loans paid for by the rest of us while they’re in, but we shouldn’t use payment for college as a way to coerce people in military service.

    Now come on chicken shit, answer the question…

  54. 54

    Last time Michael Dullard.

    Ask ylb and stop asking Puddy. Puddy already answered DADT long ago and then again recently. Puddy has a long day tomorrow so see ya!

    Just because you have liberal memory deficiency doesn’t force Puddy to answer anything you ask. BTW if a college takes fed $$$ then they have to follow fed rules.

    Plain and Simple.

  55. 55

    zotz @ 29

    I monitor the wingnutosphere and it’s their “outrage of the day” since DADT got cloture.

    Okay. My bad. I should have guessed that pudge was simply repeating the outrage of the day.

    I will maintain that the original authors are using the Rovian projection technique.

    pudge @ 41

    Look at you. Hyperventilating about stuff of no consequence to you. You crack me up.

    Thanks, though. I hadn’t realized some principled campus leaders kicked out the haters. Makes me proud.

  56. 56

    @54

    BTW if a college takes fed $$$ then they have to follow fed rules.

    Federal rules can (and should) be changed.

    Just because you have liberal memory deficiency doesn’t force Puddy to answer anything you ask.

    Who’s forcing? You’re willing to respond, but you’re not willing to actually answer the question? I’m laughing my ass off at you. Thanks for the entertainment. ;->

  57. 57

    I’m with you P-Waxx. We need more gay military cadets on campus — and the only way to do that is ROTC both on and off the campus: — everywhere!

  58. 58

    Puddy’s performance tonight greatly concerns me. He always treats facts like mosquitoes needing to be slapped away, but, lord, he shot at facts with a bazooka tonight. We need to have an intervention with Puddy to tell him how important it is to comply with his physician’s prescriptions. We love Puddy, so we really don’t want to lose him.

  59. 59

    Facts, proud leftist?

    So you discount the Harvard, Columbia and UoP stances? This is what makes you leftist so funny. The shit is in your own house and you NEVER call others on it.

    BTW proud leftist what ever prescriptions you’re on, change them. Increase the dosage. Puddy doesn’t do drugs, get it?

    You leftist fools, headless lucy@57 got it. No one else got it. Jason Osgood couldn’t figger it out with a map with big pointed arrows pointing the way. Outrage of the day? Nope Puddy was at work and those political sites are blocked. For GOOD REASON too! The virulent lefty ones are banned. You get notified when you visit leftist kook-aid sites. You are warned on conservative sites. Do you work at being this stupid Jason? Puddy understands the others have mental deficiencies. Lib Unscientist is just plain stooooooopid. Michael has his Dullard side which seems to be taking over his original persona. Roger Dumb Rabbit hardly ever checks his facts and still has problems with small words. Proud leftist, well what can you say, for a lawyer he isn’t too impressive either. Stupid Solution Steve, well there’s nothing more to say. He’s gotten much worse as the holidays approach!

    And you think Puddy needs drugs? You’re too dense with hatred to see the subtle message Puddy delivered. Right between the eyes. For additional help, Puddy told you morons to ask ylb. He has all Puddy’s comments cataloged and sorted. Yet no one has a set of real balls, just blogging ones, to come out and ask ylb. You all are really useless when it comes to remembering anything. There is just one Puddy and tens of you morons, yet Puddy remembers what Roger Dumb Rabbit blogs back in 2006. Why? Puddy has a mind. The jury is still out on y’all.

    What a bunch of lunatics. The closer to Christmas the more lunatic you leftist morons become. Are you all buying what Stupid Solution Steve is selling?

  60. 60

    So Pud, your question about ROTC does raise an interesting point, though it’s unfortunate that you refuse to defend or develop that point with much more than personal invective and really raving lunacy above.

    I think the conflation of ‘the troops’ on the one hand, and imperialistic/corporatist US foreign and military policy on the other, leads to difficult messaging and policy stances for the Left. I think your raising of this issue is in fact a recognition of this, and what you’re after is not a discussion of DADT or ROTC but merely another rhetorical grenade meant to try to drive a wedge between people against war and the individuals in the military that Republicans like to cower behind.

    We see this with the Iraq war propaganda – perhaps most commonly with the “I support the troops” magnets – what is really an endorsement of the war that hides behind a dare to not “support the troops”. It’s clever and a manifestation of (empty) Republican swagger.

    With regard to ROTC, I think that campuses not having ROTC programs is sometimes and in part a response to the use of the military as a tool of imperialism, and consequent resistance to that policy. I think that is harder to articulate on a number of levels, but the parallel homophobia institutionalized in DADT gave a much more readily understood offense in terms of non-discrimination policies that we find appropriate for colleges.

    I think the elimination of DADT does pose policy and messaging challenges for institutions that explicitly named DADT or homophobic discrimination as reasons why a relationship with the military was banned.

    Perhaps a college will make clear that it does not want our children, our young adults, highly educated and open-minded, on the verge of independence and the unfolding of their own lives and careers, recruited to be cannon-fodder for Exxon and Halliburton. Maybe this will be the catalyst for a more full-throated defense of our children, 18, 19, 20, 21-year olds coming back in boxes from Afghanistan and Iraq. Maybe this will move us to take better care of those coming back broken in body and mind.

    What colleges do is only part of the picture, of course. The real cannon fodder comes from the high-school grads and drop-outs that are recruited more conventionally. However, counter-intuitively, the recession might not have been the boom that the Pentagon thought it might be. Perhaps it’s beginning to sink in that our adventures in empire don’t translate into opportunities for our unemployed youth.

    (Does no one pay attention to the Classic Blunders, the most famous of which is: Never get involved in a land war in Asia?)

  61. 61

    Ask ylb and stop asking Puddy.

    you can grow a set and ask ylb.

    Yet no one has a set of real balls, just blogging ones, to come out and ask ylb.

    If you wanna know ask ylb.

    Ask ylb cuz Puddy doesn’t need to replay all his comments…

    I think what we see here is a variant to the logical fallacy of the appeal to authority.

    Pud hides behind his (alleged) past statements when challenged on his contemporaneous statements. (Though if his recollection is anything like his linking skills, those archived statements do not say what he thinks they say).

    He steadfastly refuses to engage in argument and feels that he has successfully parried criticism by saying, over and over ad nauseum, “Go ask ylb.” This, he feels, gets him out of a tight rhetorical spot and allows him to then respond with relentless and puerile personal attack, as seen here:

    Puddy told you morons to ask ylb

    (ed: that one had both!)

    Lib Unscientist is just plain stooooooopid.

    Roger Dumb Rabbit

    Stupid Solution Steve

    You leftist fools

    Another feature running through nearly all of Pud’s postings is the theme that no one here really understands or grasps the subtlety or significance of his positions, which I think is frankly delusional, possibly grandiose and also possibly paranoid.

  63. 63

    LS @60,61: Very insightful posts.

    I’ve been kind of uncomfortable with Rachel Maddow’s glorification of the military during the DADT debate. But I think it’s gotten her access to brass (in theater and elsewhere — HQ and retired) she wouldn’t have otherwise. Her reporting on the wars has been brilliant.

    As for Pudpuller, I’ve long maintained he’s insane and a danger to himself and others. At some point he’ll disappear from here and we’ll all joke about the rapture — but he’ll probably be in restraints somewhere.

  64. 64

    @61 “I think [puddy] is frankly delusional, possibly grandiose and also possibly paranoid.”

    I peg him as schizoid.

  65. 65

    @61 “(Does no one pay attention to the Classic Blunders, the most famous of which is: Never get involved in a land war in Asia?)”

    Certainly not those who sneer at all forms of knowledge.

  66. 66

    @18 “@16. That’s uncalled for. Doesn’t add to the discussion and just makes you look low class. Leave that to puddy to be a raving freak.”

    You must be new here. I’m a propagandist, and I stoop to their level. You can’t be nice to shit flingers. When they stop, I’ll stop. Until then, this is MAD in practice.

  67. 67

    We have some new trolls (and friendlies) here, so it’s probably not a bad idea to post the HA Ad Hoc Posting Rules again. As the unofficial HA greeter, it’s my duty to bring these ground rules to your attention.

    1. This is a liberal blog.
    2. Anyone can post here, except JCH.
    3. There is no censorship.
    4. As liberals, our mission is to verbally kick the unholy living shit out of wingnut traitors.
    5. No mercy for wingnuts!
    6. Our terms are unconditional surrender; there will be trials.
    7. Klake is a nazi.

    Any questions?

  68. 68

    Hmmm, #66 and 67 somehow ended up in the wrong thread. This belongs in “Speaking of priorities.”

  70. 70

    @Everyone: As entertaining as messing with Puddy is, it’s ultimately pointless (though I freely admit I fall into the trap a lot too). After all, in Puddy-world, Republican members of the Senate Appopriations Committee dance to Nancy Pelosi’s tune. Facts are clearly not important to him.

    Also, consider the fact that you’re arguing with someone who refers to himself in the third person . . .

  71. 71

    scientist @ 61

    “Go ask ylb.”

    Yea. That one confuses me too. Pudge habitually slams YLB. But then defers to YLB to defend him. Which I suppose means that pudge has a mighty high opinion of YLB. Who knew.

    I imagine a scenario where pudge is telling wife #2 to consult the wife #1, so #1 can tell #2 just how wrong #2 is about pudge.

    Weird.

  72. 72

    Note to Jason:

    Puddy and Pudge are not the same person. Both whacked-out, batshit-crazy wingnuts … but they’re different whacked-out, batshit-crazy wingnuts.

  75. 75

    @64

    I peg him as schizoid.

    I think of schizoids as avoiding social contact, therefore I’m not sure a schizoid would seek out the conflict that Pud seems to relish. Also, taking him at his word (I know, I know) he’s a member of a church and goes to other social type events.

    I think of him more as cluster B, the infamous cluster B, though he could be a paranoid cluster A, if indeed he has a personality disorder. (I’m not a psychiatrist) A thought disorder like schizophrenia with delusional features might be closer to the mark.

  76. 76

    @71

    Do you imagine that there are two women unfortunate/delusional/hard-up to marry that loon?
    You have a rich imagination, sir.

  78. 78

    Hello leftist fools.

    First Puddy isn’t hiding nothing. Puddy answered this question at least twice! If you fools can’t remember Puddy ain’t gonna help you! Keep screaming and shouting. Puddy ridicules ylb for his attacks. Puddy doesn’t ridicule ylb for Puddy’s comments.

    Didn’t you fools read. One more time… headless lucy got it right.

    Yet even now you prove how stupid you all are.

  79. 79

    Didn’t Puddy tell everyone Jason Osgood couldn’t find his way with a map with large arrows pointing the way? Pudge is not Puddy. He doesn’t remember this fact from earlier this year.

    Moronic Moonbat! Memory Malady!

  80. 80

    Why does this moron refer to himself in the third person? I’ve seen his silly reason at least once before but damned if I understand it.

    It’s this bizzaro world kind of delusional behavior that just reinforces everyone’s impression of his swill as “gibberish”.

    By the way fool how do you like Sen Reid handing back Lt. Choi the West Point ring Choi gave the Senator at NETROOTS NATION?

    Make lemonade fool!

  81. 81

    Oh my ylb, why not tell everyone what you found! You know how many times Puddy answered DADT and what Puddy said!
    Facts are facts moron!

  82. 82

    Senator REID making good on the trust of Lt. Dan Choi!

    None of your beloved right wing tools could do that and you know it fool. McConnell? Kyl? Ensign??? Cornyn?? Give me an effin’ break!

    Make lemonade with Sharon Angle fool!

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