The Tri-City Herald’s Chris Mulick digs out the details on what passage of Initiative 912 would mean to the avalanche and rock slide prone portion of I-90 that was shut down by a massive slide Sunday morning:
Sunday morning’s rock slide that closed Interstate 90 occurred at the site of where the Department of Transportation plans to reconfigure the highway. In the $8.5 billion transportation funding package approved by the Legislature this spring is $388 million to shore up a five-mile stretch of roadway alongside Keechelus Lake.
One particular section of that stretch, straddling the existing snowshed there, is responsible for as much as 80 percent of closures on the highway because it is prone to avalanches. The design option gaining favor with the agency would build a bridge into the lake, pulling the highway away from the hillside and any falling snow or rocks.
This is the same area where the rock slide occurred.
…
One has to wonder if any of those Coug Dads coming back from Dad’s Weekend at Washington State University gave any thought to the measure as they were forced to take the longer way home Sunday from Pullman.
One has to wonder if enough voters have bothered to educate themselves about what they would lose should I-912 pass? I guess we’ll find out tonight.
GOLDY–
I suppose you have never heard of re-prioritizing a Budget huh??
If you CLOWNS would take serious look at the costs of highway projects…..looking at every single line item….I knwo that is beyond you yahoos.
How about eliminating prevailing wage, sales tax, excessive environmental review (not ALL…just the costly duplicitous parts) and BS like $$$ for the fucking artist CLOWNS….
Why not start with honing down the cost side first???
Is that against the CLOWNS quasi-religion???
Yes, clearly 912 will eliminate every single project that WSDOT has ever dreamed of.
Fear-mongering
Playing up events like a rock slide
Promoting DOT
All done with YOUR tax dollars!!
Keep your hand on your wallet and use your common sense…not fear.
Vote YES on I-912 and send a message that WSDOT really does work for US!!!! Not the bureaucratic tub of goo that has evolved.
Cynical @ 1:
Prevailing wage is Federal law. Next?
Ivan—
But this is an “EMERGENCY”, remember?
EMERGENCY’s call for drastic measures….not just punishing taxpayers.
We ALL must “suffer” a bit in an EMERGENCY Ivan.
I’ve heard that mantra from the CLOWNS for years!
Cynical @ 5:
You expect to get rid of the sales tax any time soon? Next?
More scaremongering by Goldy.
It is simply a matter of priorities.
For example, the Alaskan Way project has at least $1.5 billion in completely unnecessary spending. At least a billion dollars extra for a tunnel, instead of an elevated highway — so that downtown property owners can have increased views and values. And another half billion to lower Aurora north of the Battery Street tunnel so that Paul Allen and other developers can benefit.
Probably $388 million on the five mile I-90 project is quite necessary and entirely reasonable. This is only 25% of the amount that is being totally wasted by extra spending on Alaskan Way project.
So I will vote for I-912, so that the extravagance on Alaskan Way can be defeated. I assume the legislature will come up with the $388 million on I-90 from other sources.
Um, Mr Cynical, honing down the cost side was the start of the emergency we’re in. After that it was removing the funding. So, stripping things down to bare basics, then underfunding even those bare basics = failing infrastructure. You reap what you sow.
People like you (who want the voting electorate to believe there is such a thing as free lunch) always want to cut, cut, cut. Well, you’ve cut everthing you can, and now all we have left is a failing life support system. Either prop it up with this, or just move to Utah.
Larry the brainwashed Liberal…
Get a clue.
Once again the State gov’t has ripped off the tax payers. These rocket scientests in the DOT never even slated the slide area (Sept. Slide) as an at risk section, and now we are supposed to listen as chicken little runs around screaming the sky is falling?
Emergency my ass.
The state offices are filled with people who have gotten friends & relatives jobs and will continue to do so. Voting in new taxes is just another way of saying, here, go get you red headed step-daughter a job on my dollar.
You know larry, that is all complete BULLSHIT.
How many times have we heard the corrupt Mr Sims tell us he’d have to cut FIRE AND EMERGENCY services if we didn’t open our wallets and let him pillage them?
More times than I can remember since moving back to this lousy 3rd rate state.
It’s easy… be a grown up, be responsible and PRIORITIZE SPENDING THE MONEY YOU HAVE.
WE have to do it in our lives with our daily/monthly/yearly budgets and WE SHOULD EXPECT NO LESS FROM THESE DAMNED CORRUPT POLITICIANS.
Richard @7,
Scaremongering? It’s the truth! All I did was post the truth! The transportation package includes $388 million targeted towards this stretch of road… if I-912 passes, that get’s nixed.
Careful Richard… you’re being pulled over to the dark side.
If 912 passes, not only will all the state’s roads and bridges fail simultaneously, but our entire planet will be vulnerable to a collision with an asteroid and wipe out life as we know it. All because some cheapskates want to deprive Queen Christine of her little gas tax!
There are $3.5 billion in tax increases left when 912 passes today. If you oppose 912 an honest argument is saying many (or even most) of the projects in the 2005 package will be cut. A dishonest argument is to say all of them will be cut, especially the rock-slide areas of the I-90 pass.
Maybe you should go back to “Dino Watch” and leave the serious policy discussions to others.
Cut the bullshit animal bridges, open up the HOV lanes to logical use in off peak hours, limit lazy DOT workers to standing around smoking only when taxpayers aren’t present, prioritize spending current money on hand, PROVE YOU CAN BE RESPONSIBLE WITH PEOPLES HARD EARNED MONEY, then come talk to us about another usury taz increase.
Until then, GO TO HELL.
*tax
Ivan @4 Prevailing wage is Federal law. Next?
It never ceases to amaze me at how stupid liberals are. The Davis-Bacon Act applies only to construction projects awarded by a federal agency.
How @ 13
Apparently, proof isn’t really what you want (since they have documented it, over and over again).
What is it you *really* want?
Ass @ 13:
912 or no 912, we’re going to get these projects built, because people need them. And YOU and Cynical are going to pay just like the rest of us.
Yell and scream all you want, stand on your head and hold your breath. But you’ll pay, all of you, sooner or later, and I feel real good about that.
Goldy;
Billions on transportation and they don’t have I-90 as a priority?
Screwed up DOT. You don’t need an emergency tax increase to take care of basics….
But then again, you guys spin the tax increase on a daily basic; some days its for Viaduct, some days for special move the cars faster projects, some days its to help rockslides…
slick…
But you’ll pay, all of you, sooner or later, and I feel real good about that. -Comment by Ivan— 11/8/05 @ 10:27 am
Interesting choice of words, comrade.
you’ll pay
all of you
912 going down to defeat.
You heard it here first …
Ass @ 19:
I’ll pay, too. I use the Viaduct, and I want it repaired. I’ll think of you and Cynical and Righton and the rest of you cheapskates when I’m driving on the new elevated highway.
We’ll have it, sooner or later, maybe during Gregoire’s second or third term.
Richard Pope @ 7
I heard Ed Murray debate John Carlson on KUOW and Ed claimed that the funds allocated in the 2005 transportation bill for AWV was for replacement leaving open the possibility of a tunnel if Seattle could find the funds.
So who is not telling the truth or being misleading: you (and John Carlson) or Ed Murray?
I’m actually quite content… It very well might not be here quite yet, but I can feel it.
The rightwing nutjobs time is over. You can almost hear the desperation of the trolls over the ‘net. These guys know they’re hosed, but they just can’t break the pattern. So they just keep jabbering on the same things, hitting the same themes, getting shriller and shriller.
I hope we see their end this year, but 2006 works too…
at #3
quote
“#
Fear-mongering
Playing up events like a rock slide
Promoting DOT”
You mean like
Fear-mongering
Playing up terrorism
promoting the iraq war.
I know a party that likes to do that. But lets ignore all that and focus on a 9 cent gas tax.
How about we just ignore herb on herbs and make the CORRUPT STATE use existing dollars and cents responsibly while living WITHIN their budget?
I have an idea that will keep the likes of Ms. Chickenhawk happy, since she is complaining about our high gas tax rate. But since we all agree that we need to spend more on transportation, and since the likes of Ms. Chickenhawk always forget that unlike other states we fund transportation almost solely out of gas tax revenue, we will have to replace the loss revenue with some sort of other tax. Idealy, one that is related to transportation.
So, how bout we tax Motor Vehicles at 2% of their value each year when you renew your tabs? This should be the perfect conservative tax, as you completely control how much you pay. Don’t want to pay for transit or roads, want to stick it to the Democrats, fine, just go and buy an old Yugo, and your taxes would be tiny. If you have money to burn, go buy your gas guzzling Humvee. The amount of tax you pay is entirely within your control. How could a conservative be against that?
This is such an obvious solution, I expect that after 912 is defeated, that John Carlson and Kirby Wilbur will stand up and anounce their new campaign, the “Majority of Voters for Efficient Taxation” initiative. For once, Carlson and Wilbur could provide a “stick it to the Government” initiative that makes the likes of Ms. Chickenhawk et al. happy, and also provide good government/social policy. Now that would be a site to be seen.
Ass – Educate me… do you have evidence that the state DOT is corrupt? I go and look at the DOT projects and I see the vast majority are on budget and on time.
But heck, you saw some DOT worker lean on a shovel once so they all must be lazy and corrupt. But then, I am guessing you never swung and ax or ran a shovel 16 hours a day either….
Doug McDonald admitted on Carlson’s show yesterday that with or without 912, this repair (as part of a much larger project) is scheduled to start in 2011. Some emergency.
So don’t believe Goldy’s lies. We’re not all going to die when 912 passes by 15.
For The Clueless @ 23
I will trust the official State of Washington Department of Transportation website:
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/viaduct/
The tunnel is STILL the official replacement.
They have had several months to change the Alaskan Way plans, and have not done so.
I will be voting YES on I-912 as a result.
LOL-6 years to pick up rocks, wow, looks like a BIG emergency!!!!
And don’t forget, the sky(AWV) is falling too!!!
All Bullshit!! Remember that this would not EVEN be on the Ballot if the Queen and her Court (Rep incl) had not shoved the EMERGENCY down our throats. Even if this fails, it was worth the Fight to Teach those elected that they work for THE PEOPLE….. Then again, I hope it isn’t a close vote tally, because we wouldn’t want to embarrass KCE anymore than they have been already….
Arnold is still the gubernatorial winner in the fake “emergency” sweepstakes. And now that we’re on the Arnold thing, why is he so against unions contributing to political campaigns but he’s A-OK with the$70 million corporations have donated to him? More fair and balanced from the right, huh?
Richard Pope @ 30
I hope people read that site carefully. Thanks for the link.
The tunnel is the “preferred alternative” which was decided on December 6, 2004. If you read the previous quarterly reports rebuild is considered an “insurance policy” if the financing doesn’t pan out which will be the case if I-912 succeeds.
There’s also something called the “record of decision” that is scheduled for 2007 that I assume will be the point when the final “rebuild” or “tunnel” decision will be made.
NO ON 912!
For the Clueless @ 33
Here is what the official WSDOT website ACTUALLY SAYS:
“Overview
WSDOT, the Federal Highway Administration and City of Seattle have selected the Tunnel Alternative to replace the Alaskan Way Viaduct following three years of environmental and engineering review, 76 initial concepts, over 200 community meetings and over 4,500 public comments. …
Now that the Tunnel Alternative has been selected, the project team will further analyze the construction phasing approach and maintenance of traffic during construction. …
Urban Environment. The tunnel creates a new waterfront for all to enjoy. It will be more pedestrian- and bicycle-friendly, and will improve access to destinations such as Colman Dock, Seattle Aquarium, Pike Place Market and the sports stadiums.”
Clearly, they have decided to build the TUNNEL and waste at least a billion dollars (if not more) of our money. And the same thing applies to the changes on Aurora Avenue North to benefit Paul Allen to the tune of another half billion dollars.
YES ON I-912!
Nothing but a whole lot of noise in this thread. Just listen to yourselves.
I for one will be glad when this election is over. Should I-912 pass then on to the next matter of business: how transportation projects will be paid for in the future – probably regionally rather than by the entire state. Should I-912 fail, then we can get on with all the projects that have been on hold at a cost of $66 million because of it. Either way I won’t be hanging around “discussions” like this one about I-912 anymore that are nothing but hurled insults, child-like bickering, and people trying to “shout” louder than the other.
Get over yourselves people – not one of you are convincing anyone of anything with that kind of approach. The few measured voices are always drowned out by the vitriol flying around. Shame on those whose only purpose is exactly that.
daniel K…
people are here because they get something out of it. Ya might wanna get off your high-horse in tellin’ people how dumb it is to discuss things on a blog…
thats what its here for
me@36
ie, I know I’m not gonna convince a moron like ProudASS or Mr. Irrelevant of anything at this point… and yet I choose to come here anyways. You’re the one who needs to get over himself, and if you don’t like it here…
leave
Richard—
Nice of you to point out to Clueless the CLOWN what he should have read for himself on the WSDOT website. I repeat:
“Now that the Tunnel Alternative has been selected, the project team will further analyze the construction phasing approach and maintenance of traffic during construction.”
CLUELESS—
NOW THAT THE TUNNEL ALTERNATIVE HAS BEEN SELECTED.
What is so hard to understand about that??
You are probably just one of Paul Allen’s lackey’s in-charge of screwing the taxpayers from all over Washington into paying for this little Seattle Waterfront special interest group to make BILLIONS. Washington taxpayers SHOULD NOT be forced to pay for enhancing Seattle’s Waterfront for wealthy developers you CLOWN!!
I though you LEFTIST PINHEADED CLOWNS spent most of your miserable lives ranting that “DEVELOPERS MUST PAY THEIR OWN WAY”….yet you CLOWNS are duped by this???? WHY????????????
After I-912 passes, this is THE most important issue to be debated. The State pays to bolster the existing structure. PERIOD!!!! If Seattle wants to pay for the developers dream, by all means do so. JUST SHOW ME THE MONEY before you start…..and I mean all of it. The State should turn over ZERO for any alternative than repair existing structure until Seattle shows them ALL THE MONEY to do whatever else.
windie said, “people are here because they get something out of it. Ya might wanna get off your high-horse in tellin’ people how dumb it is to discuss things on a blog…
thats what its here for”
Obviously you didn’t read my comment. I wasn’t tellin’ people how dumb it is to discuss things on a blog, I was talking about how everyone goes about “discussing” things, particularly on this blog.
If I were you I wouldn’t be so quick to repel those that might actually contribute a reasoned, measured argument without resorting to insults, vitriol and other childish one-upmanship, unless all you want to read here is Mr. Cynical “arguing” with himself.
daniel k, Remember though, it won’t be over till Jan or so. Heck, it really won’t start till next week sometime when whoever looses this starts screaming that the other side cheated.
Then someone will have a database that they basicly made up by pulling several number out of the air (“I think a valid assumption is . . .”) and comparing it all to the gross national product of boliva and cross referenced it to National Library of Congress which basicly will prove that the other side is a bunch of bastards. The other side will respond by saying ‘but the other side did it first’.
Ultimately, it doesnt matter, because regardless of what the voters decide, if the opposite side tries hard enough, there WILL be a revote, and then another and then another and so on.
bill @ 40 – That’s the problem: we’ve fallen victims to the politics of cynicism.
I think that should I-912 fail it will be hard for another initiative come along to try to do the exact same thing with another part of the tax package for this transportation bill. We’ve heard rumors that an Eyman backed excise tax initiative is in the works.
If I-912 passes, then a lot of people, like myself, will have lost patience with the current system and will support a less desirable but necessary balkanization of transportation funding.
Oh I get it Mr. Shithead…
It’s only a good “screw-job” if BIAW gets the money!
Thanks for clearing that up.
You people are really a bunch of small minded vindictive little pricks (literally AND figuatively), aren-cha’?
Have the closed the that horrible, old, dangerous, decrepid viaduct yet?
Horrible, Old, Decrepid, Dangerously, Still Open Alaskan Way Viaduct Vigil, Day 1.
Daniel K, how many times have you voted about the monorail now? How many times do we prove something to be untrue and have people say yeah but.. then repeat the same piece of nonsense.
When youve got so many people who become so devoted to an idea or a party that they refuse to use reason, I think that a cynical outlook and assumption that their only motive is power, is valid.
As I have said before the parties should be outlawed.
awesome..I’d vote for it twice if I could, hey wait here some lint in my pocket, and in certain counties thats probably enough to get me a provisional ballot, heck maybe a couple ballots..alright, now were talking….
I hear lint reminds little dean Logan of the chads he’s be lusting after….
You know my right thinking friends, if I-900 passes and I hope it does, we can have performance audits on many areas. Can you think of various departments where PAs are needed?