I have long been of the opinion that I-912, the anti-roads initiative, can be defeated, with enough hard work, elbow grease… and the truth. And oh yeah… money. And yet, even after a spate of recent polls showed the initiative much closer than expected, the official No campaign, Keep Washington Rolling, has been disappointingly silent.
Sure they’ve got a website, but then, who doesn’t? Where are the flyers, the yard signs, the mailings, the advertising? But most of all, where is the relentless media outreach campaign necessary to educate voters about the true impact of I-912?
Hell, at this point I’d just settle for a few yard signs. Which is why I’m happy to report that a new grass roots No campaign, Washington Defense, has created a PAC, and is now soliciting contributions.
No, you’re not likely to see a huge media campaign coming out of these efforts, but at least they’re doing something. So if you believe we can’t wait to fix our critical transportation infrastructure, don’t just sit back and wait for the business community and elected officials to get their act together and run an effective No campaign. Go to Washington Defense, contribute a few bucks, volunteer your time and help make I-912 a fair fight.
Maybe we should learn from New Orleans, it is better to invest now before a failure than have to spend ten times as much once the failure happens.
You’re absolutely right, JDB.
It is time for a grassroots campaign against Initiative 912. Washington Defense is clearly the organization to lead the fight. I’m certainly going to be involved in their efforts.
This is one lefty who is voting for I-912.
With all of Seattle’s politicians dead set on a $4 billion (if you even believe that figure, which I don’t) Alaskan Way Viaduct tunnel scheme and with the same politicians dead set on slipping $400 million into the AWV busdet to reconfigure SR99/Broad Street/Mercer because Paul Allen says so, the only vote Seattle residents will ever have on this ridiculous and unnecessary plan is this November.
No.
My father always told me not to mount a dead steed, you guys must not have had a dad to teach you important things like that I guess….
You know what sucks about Keep Washington Rolling…. They still say don’t sign the petition on their web site.
HELLO?????
Goldy and the stupid LEFTIST PINHEADS (not you Mr. X this time…you figured out the Bullshit with the AWV Waterfront Beautification Program which will enrich Seattle Waterfront property owners at our expense in the name of a transportation emergency):
May I bring up the horse fucking the dude to death in Enumclaw?? Cuz I-912 will pass by such a huge margin that that is probably about how you IDIOTS are going to feel who truly believe there is an ounce of hope!
Who is the NO on I-912 Campaign Manager Goldy—BEN DOVER!!!!!!
Can we be politically honest? A grassroots campaign is highly unlikely to defeat the initiative. Some major players need to weigh in on this. Perhaps more media pressure would help. That’s what you’re really good at, Goldy.
What I notice on the website is a complete absence of names. Northwest Progressive Institute is listed as the sponsor, but I don’t see any real people who are behind this. Does this mean that the campaign actutally has a deep pocket that is putting up the start up money? Who knows?
I love it that you yell and scream about full disclosure from politicians and campaigns, until it is your own.
There will be an all out campaign to defeat I-912. It will be grassroots and an “air war.” Pre-Katrina research shows that I-912 can be defeated if people know what its all about – as opposed to the silly bumperstickers that John Carlson uses to promote it, which most people see through. (But clearly not Miss Cynical.)
Make no mistake, the campaign to defeat I-912 is an underdog campaign. It’ll take much more than we’ve seen from Rolling to date (which has basically been suspended until this week) and everything Washington Defense can muster.
And hey Mr. X – the tunnel is dead and so is the pricey fluff the Mayor has been insisting on to fix Mercer (which has nothing to do with the safety crisis posed by the Viaduct). They just haven’t written to obit yet. There is not enough money to build a tunnel – never will be. That decision was made when Washington DC delivered just 25% of what the Mayor had been counting on – and announced that there would be no more.
So who put up the money to launch the web site? I didn’t realize “grassroot” meant “non-human”. No effort happens without leadership – who is it?
Hey wingnuts,
What’s the price of gas now? What was it a year ago?
Must a been that damn gubmint…
Any time people can choose “PAY LESS TAX” on a ballot, they do regardless of implications.
Mr. X @ 3
Good point and well said. I too am disgusted with the tremendous extra tunnel expense to enrich downtown property owners and the lowering of Aurora Avenue to benefit Paul Allen. $1.5 billion of total pork injected into the project to help the extremely rich.
HOW CAN THEY CONSIDER BAILING OUT BILLIONAIRES TO BE “PROGRESSIVE”?
Cynical @6,
You somehow are under the misperception that I might feel shame at losing. Unlike some of the political pussies elected in this state, I’m not afraid to fight a political battle and lose. The only shame I would feel is if I-912 passes and I did nothing.
I-912 is stupid, STUPID policy, simple as that. Anybody in the Seattle area who votes for it is voting against their own short term self interest. And anybody in the rest of the state who votes for it is voting against their longterm self interest… because I promise you, if they screw the pooch on this one, we stand a good chance of devolving transportation planning and spending to the local level, which means shit will be built in 80% of the state for the next fifty years. Maybe… just maybe the part of the state with the money will spend a little of it to repave I-90 once in while so that we can quickly get through the hell-hole, back-water that E. WA will become due to lack of investment, on our way towards somewhere worthwhile. Maybe.
I just can’t figure out why you guys are so keen on turning WA in CA.
The reason I-912 is going to pass is that people are fed up with the arrogant attitude that permeates all levels of state and local government here in Washington. People are tired of being ignored and lied to by petty politicians and bureaucrats. The enactment of the gas tax was the last straw: the ordinary folks want to put the politicos in their place, and repeal of the gas tax increase is just a start.
Janet S @10,
The website was launched by Andrew Villeneuve (an 18-year-old Redmond High grad) and his associates at NPI. WA Defense has filed as a PAC with the PDC, and former KCDEM chair Greg Rodriguez has agreed to serve as its treasurer, which should assure donors that this is legit. Keep Washington Rolling should be embarrassed that it has come to this.
Nice fucking conspiracy theory you were working on there. Feel stupid now?
Libertarian @ 15
The enactment of the gas tax was the last straw: the ordinary folks want to put the politicos in their place, and repeal of the gas tax increase is just a start.
Morons. The ordinary people elected polititians to enact needed policy. If you don’t like it vote the polititians out or run for office yourself.
Putting politicos in their place. Great idea, especially since we’ll all eventually get put in our place because of it. Good idea. Send a message.
If you want to put polititians in their place then you vote them out or recall them. What part of representative democracy don’t you get??
rwb @ 17
No need to be rude. I don’t call you names, so i’d appreciate it if you kept you attitude in check.
@18
new here I guess…
Anyways, its not really teaching politicians anything, except teaching certain party bosses and their cronies on the right just how easy it is to manipulate parts of the electorate…
Libertarian @ 18: “No need to be rude. I don’t call you names, so i’d appreciate it if you kept you attitude in check.”
Uhhhhh…..how long have you’ve been on this blog? These comment threads run on nothing but attitude sometimes!
Libertarian @ 18:
You were rude to all voter-elected officials in this state. Why would you be rude and then get upset when folks are rude in return?
Time for the golden rule.
I agree with JDB and Hiker @ 1&2….I’m not completely happy with the gas tax, but cripes, roads are expensive and the pro-912 folks have not suggested anything to fix the transportation problems around here. If they had a viable alternative, then maybe, but some solution is better than no solution.
I coaught an interesting newscast this morning.
There is a rippling to have all gas taxes removed for the next 3 months to help the American public out.
Guess who is the first to oppose this? That’s right, Queen Christine. Currently that would be 31 cents er gallon off the price of gas… and that’s just from the state tax.
So when you start this crap about her having a look at your future, set down the bong.
Goldy – thanks for the info. Please excuse my skepticism. Keep Washington Rolling has been an embarrasment, between the falsehoods on the website and the lies in their ads.
Does this mean that any time spent endorsing this campaign on this blog must be reported as a campaign donation? Why is this different than what they did on KVI?
Personally, I think there should very few constraints on free speech. If you want to campaign 24/7 for it, go for it. I just want to make sure that you have to live by the same stupid court rulings that the other side has to abide by.
kitten sounds @ 23:
As has been pointed out, guess what happens when you drop the gas tax: You leave a massive whole in the budget, and the gas companies hike the price up to the same level. Don’t you rememeber your supply and demand curve from economics 101? So dropping the gas tax only ensures that the obscene profits the oil companies are making will be even more obscene. (Quick aside, please not another buisness where if the price of your commodities go up, your proffits go up. If wheat tripled in price, does General Foods profits soar?)
Janet S:
The difference is that Goldy is simply discussing the issue, KVI was coordinating the campaign. If they had just talked about the issue, they would have been fine. When they start activly campaigning, then they have to declare their contributions. The day Goldy starts collecting money, or coordinating the campaign, I would expect him to declare his contributions.
Libertarian @ 18:
You need to read more carefully. rwb was talking about people who vote for 912 “to put the politicos in their place.” Voting for the anti-roads initiative hardly accomplishes that. It is the same as cutting off your nose to spite your face. Hence (and notice the plural, unless you are schizophrenic), Morons.
Big headline of the day, that should make the minnow and KVI happy. The Court of Appeals ruled that you cannot find people for lying in politics. (u)sp breathes a collective sigh of relief.
This should help the No on I-912 campaign.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....dc08m.html
Obvious difference of opinions here. Let me say you got one hell of a fight if you think I-912 will be defeated. Good Luck! In fact, I just ordered some t-shirts, stickers, and yard signs FOR I-912. Maybe Queen Crissy and Co. will listen this time….somehow I doubt it. Thanks.
Mr. X @3
Nice basic misunderstanding of how this all works – the money from the state gas tax is something like $1B – this doesn’t increase or decrease depending on if the locals decide to go with the tunnel or a new viaduct or whatever. If the locals want the tunnel, then they’ll have to find their own money to make up the difference (and they might get some $$ from the feds to help build the seawall at the same time, which just happens to be the West wall of the tunnel option – otherwise they’ll have to be two separate projects – that’ll be fun!).
Voting No on 912 isn’t a vote against the tunnel, but is a vote against any work on the Alaska Way Viaduct. If you want those bodies on your conscience, then vote for the damned thing.
willis @ 28
‘If you want those bodies on your conscience, then vote for the damned thing.’
If the thing is so dangerous why is it still open? How many lives is it worth to reduce congestion by keeping it open? Who is running the show here? FEMA or some nasty repubs?
To all: I don’t care what you call me, just so long as you don’t call me late for dinner!
I-912 is going to pass.
@30
okay… I’ll call you “fake”.
a fake libertarian, just like all the others that claim to be Lib’s on here!
I-912 is very likely to pass. But thats because people are greedy, shortsighted, and easily led. Not ‘zactly something to be proud of, I think.
windie @ 31:
What’s a fake Libertarian?
Libertarian @ 18: “No need to be rude. I don’t call you names, so i’d appreciate it if you kept you attitude in check.”
You’re right. I shouldn’t direct my frustrations over what I percieve as a moronic attitude solely at you.
I must also apologize for mispelling politician three times in one post. It’s hard to make what I hoped to be an semi-intelligent response with poor spelling. Rather embarassing
a fake libertarian is someone who claims to be one, but doesn’t really support libertarian ideals.
Alot of repubs. like to claim to be libertarians, they think it gives them more credibility.
Of course, I don’t know you particularly, so I’m going out on a limb here. But considering your ‘party line’ complaints and echoing of the Carlson/Wilbur line, I feel pretty safe in my description.
@3
The figure for Paul Allen’s portion of the project is $200 million, not $400 million. It’s hard to disagree with your point that taxpayers should not be financing Paul Allen’s pet projects, but that’s a separate project that can be easily severed from the viaduct replacement. The viaduct needs to be replaced, period. To use Paul Allen’s raiding of the public till as an excuse to continue using a crumbling and dangerous viaduct is not the answer. The solution to that is bringing pressure to bear on politicians to not cater to Allen’s interests.
@13
How disingenuous, Richard. You’ve just demonstrated your unfitness to serve on the port commission.
@15
“The reason I-912 is going to pass is that people are fed up with the arrogant attitude that permeates all levels of state and local government here in Washington. People are tired of being ignored and lied to by petty politicians and bureaucrats. The enactment of the gas tax was the last straw: the ordinary folks want to put the politicos in their place, and repeal of the gas tax increase is just a start.”
You’re pretty fucking disingenous, too, considering how far politicians have gone to give critics like you what you asked for — a specific project-by-project transportation budget, oversight, independent audits, and scaling back spending and the tax increases needed to support it.
At some point, your demands simply become an excuse for doing nothing about the state’s legitimate transportation needs. You’re demanding a perfection that will never come. It’s simply cover for your illogical and irresponsible anti-tax, anti-government ideology that can’t possibly stand on its own.
@23
prr, you never cease to be dumb. Washington’s transportation infrastructure is already hurting from insufficient funding, why make the problem worse by foregoing $100’s of millions of gas tax collections? How would that not have to be made up later, given that the needs will not go away, and project costs will not go down?
You also fail to understand that suspending the gas tax will do NOTHING to lower pump prices. If you are paying $2.89 a gallon today, you will still be paying $2.89 the day after the gas tax is suspended. The reason is prices have to rise until consumers reduce their consumption to the available supply of gasoline. If the state doesn’t collect that 31 cents, then oil companies and gas stations owners will. I guarantee prices will not come down as a result of lowering the gas tax! In fact, this summer’s gas tax increase probably kept prices from going 3 cents a gallon higher.
windie @ 34:
Let’s see if we can come to an agreement. My definition of Libertarian is a person who believs in limited government, first and foremost. I’m not an authority on history, but I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who expoused that idea many years ago. “That government is best that governs least” comes to mind.
I believe a Libertarian is a Republican who believes in individual rights. I beleive a Libertarian is a Democrat that believes in individual responsibility.
On issues of money and spending, Libertarians often agree with the Republicans in the crowd. On items regarding freedom of choice, Libertarians tend to agree with the Democrats. For example, when Republicans start talking about reducing and simplifying taxes, I listen to what they say. When the Democrats complain about the intrusions into personal liberty created by the Department of Homeland Security, I listen to them as well. And just for the record, I listen to KVI AND Air America, just not at the same time.
What’s your definition of a Libertarian?
Reply to 27
I-912 probably will win, and then we will have the satisfaction of blaming you when AWV collapses and kills a bunch of people.
@39
Thats a reasonable definition ;)
My quick version is “Less government”.
All too many ‘libertarians’ we see on here are all for the federal police state that Bush ‘n Co. are trying to build.
Thats the iron test for ‘fake libertarians’ I think ;)
I wonder how Georgia can do it?
I wonder how Gerogia can have a better highway system than Washington and only tax motorists 7.5 cents a gallon (2003). At the same time Washington was taxing us 28 cents a gallon. Now it is 31 cents a gallon and set to rise to 37.5 cents a gallon.
Please, one of you supporters of the Washington State DOT status quo tell me how Georgia does it.
If you convince me that Georgia spends as much money on their highways as Washington does, I will vote against I-912 but until then…
On second thought, when will King, Pierce and Snohomish Counties exercise the authority they asked for and the Legislature granted to raise local taxes to pay for transportation improvements in the tri-county region?
Come on, guys, show a little LEADERSHIP!
“What’s a fake Libertarian?”
A fake Libertarian is one who sends children to state-supported schools, allows state-supported military to fight for him and calls state-supported fire departments when his home is on fire. In other words, a socialist.
rwb @ 17
“The ordinary people elected polititians to enact needed policy.”
Yep, I guess that is what they did in New Orleans and now they have 500 semi-submerged buses!
Oh, yah, I forgot. GWB and the whole Whitehouse staff were in New Orleans slashing bus tires on August 26.
Now back to I-912. Why is Seattle set to spend $2,000,000,000 on a monorail system that will just take passengers off buses rather than fix a KNOWN public safety problem? I don’t mind helping people who are willing to help themselves but Seattle wants the rest of the State to fix THEIR public safety problem. Dream on!
Wabbit @ 36
Probably true. If I am not willing to screw the public in order to benefit the financially privileged, I will never get the corporate, financial, and special interest support that is required to actually end up with a majority of the votes for the Seattle Port Commission.
Mr. X made an excellent point in Post # 3. The only way we can stop this $1.5 billion of total waste is to vote in favor of I-912. I would have a much different view on the matter if there wasn’t such crass favoritism for wealthy special interests.
JC Bob:
First of all, I have no idea how good the Georgia transportation system is. From friends who live in Atlanta, it never sounded great, and it sounds like they have an easier enviroment to build and maintain roads in. If you have some way of comparing them, please post it.
However, I will note that Georgia puts on a 4% sales tax on gas. And who knows what other taxes there are, when we limit our tax to a simple gas tax.
I will also note that the cheapest gas today in Atlanta is $2.74 as of 11:30 9/8 ( http://www.atlantagasprices.com/) at Wallmart, after the Govenor has declared a moritorium on all gas taxes. In Seattle, with all or taxes, it is $2.73 (http://www.seattlegasprices.com/). So it would appear that tax has little to do with the price of gas.
As far as good roads go. Washington could be better (but I’m of the school that if Washington drivers were better, the roads would be better), but have you driven in Oregon or Idaho? Look at how good our roads are in comparison. Now, what do you have to show that Georgia’s roads are better?
FYI Ray-O-Vac @ 43: I have no kids, I did 20 yrs. in the military, and the fire department where I live is suppoted by the property taxes I pay. So, by your definition, I’m not a fake Libertarian, but I don’t think people who pay taxes and want services for those payments aren’t necessarily socialists. It’s like social security: people are putting money into it (by force) so they’re expecting something out of it in retirement. to have the fire department put out a house fire when the homeowner pays taxes for fire protection isn’t a socialist attitude, in my view.
JC Bob:
Upon further research, it doesn’t look like Georgia’s roads are any better, and that is with a lot easier place to maintain roads:
“Driving on metro Atlanta’s roads is reminiscent of that fifties fad in which college students staged elaborate contests to squeeze the most people into a phone booth. Only, for motorists in the nation’s ninth-largest metro area, the congestion is no passing fad; it has become a way of life.
Who’s to blame depends on who’s pointing the finger, and the named culprits include: the feds, for freezing new highway spending; “sprawl” – that lifestyle choice in which families opt to live the American dream in subdivisions far from the madding crowd; “anti-automobile extremism,” which leads to unrealistic transportation alternatives that put a hurt on the cul-de-sac crowd, and the metro area’s magnetism, which is drawing more than 500 new residents daily.
The inconvenience of traffic congestion is compounded by its devastating cost – as much as $1.9 billion a year in lost time and fuel, according to one recent metro-area study – and the accompanying damage to the metro area’s air quality and reputation. Vehicles spewing emissions as they sit idling in the hot Atlanta summer reduce the likelihood that the metro area will ever be free of costly Environmental Protection Agency regulations. ”
http://www.gppf.org/article.as.....estion.htm
Sound familiar?
So, thanks for voting against 912 JC Bob. I will hold you to your word.
willis@28—
You are either stupid or a Paul Allen troll….perhaps both!
Everyone on this blog….even the LEFTIST PINHEADS….know that if I-912 is miraculously defeated that underfunded projects will be started to the point where the bureaucrats will insist on additional taxes so they can be comnpleted.
Personally, I think you are a Paul Allen troll!
Hey cynical, except for the 520 bridge all the other projects are fully funded.
Willis @ 28
Read the AWV EIS – the preferred alternative is still the tunnel, and still includes the Aurora lowering project (BTW – Roger, I’ve been to numerous AWV forums and closely quizzed WSDOT officials – the price of the City’s preferred Aurora scheme is indeed $400 million – because the whole thing is tied into Paul Allen’s scheme to turn Mercer into a two way street so Valley will be a nice pretty place for him to put park/waterfront condos. Closing Broad street is part of both projects, and the full version the City wants could well cost even more, as they want to create new north/south streets that now dead end at the Broad Street cut).
Greg Nickels recently threatened to just rip the Viaduct down and not replace it if he doesn’t get Paulie’s tunnel – and every indication is that the City intends to get just enough capital together to start digging a hole, which they intend to force the public to finish (Big Dig, anyone?)
BTW – I drove the mighty Viaduct today, will drive home on it this afternoon, and will happily take my chances on it for the next 20 years. The fact is – the Viaduct is built in discrete sections, the footings go down to bedrock, and the upper and lower level were done w/a single concrete pour, so it isn’t likely to pancake in the event of a typical earthquake (not to say that there may not be some falling concrete underneath if nothing is done. And, who knows, a brand new elevated roadway built to current seismic standards collapsed in the last Kobe earthquake, so anything is possible. The question is one of risk and benefit. Problem is, the current preferred AWV EIS alternative costs too damn much and benefits too few people).
All of that said, the notion of eliminating the gas tax entirely is dumb as dirt, and Gregoire was right to reject it.
46 and 47
In the last 3 years, I have driven a couple of thousand miles in Georgia. I KNOW what their roads are like and I know what Washington highways are like. Yes, we have mountains but have you driven on the Georgia coast and their thousands of bridges?
Are you telling me that the roads in King county are not over crowded? Granted, I only drove through Atlanta 4 times but NEVER encountered anything approaching I-5 between Boeing Field and Northgate.
But I have another question. Why hasn’t the WSDOT been able to fix the Mercer Mess and the southbound Freeway Bridge Mess in 40 years? What traffic engineer in his right mind would create situations where merging traffic must cross 3 lanes of traffic to exit in about 1 mile? By the way, I have a REAL simple fix for the Southbound Freeway Bridge Mess but I am sure the folks in the U District would NOT like it.
Now, relative to gas prices. I wonder why on my last trip to the southeast (winter 2003-2004) I paid $1.799 in Washington and $1.269 in Georgia?
Let me remind you. In 2003 Washingtonians paid about 3.8 times as much gas tax as Georgians did. WHY??????????????
51 – Georgia charges 4% sales tax on top of gas, they have a larger population and an income tax.
JC Bob @ 42
“I wonder how Georgia can do it?”
The total state tax burden is pretty close for Georgia and Washington. Georgia is 9.8% of income and Washington is 10.0% of income (from here.
Washington is slightly below the average state tax burden.
The big difference between the two states is the different revenue streams to fund the state.
Georgia has an income tax, corporate income tax, has below average sales tax, and very low gas sales tax and cigarette tax. Georgia has moderate property tax.
Washington, on the other hand, has no income tax, no corporate income tax, no gasoline sales tax (rather it is an excise tax), high sales, cigarette and alcohol tax, a B&O tax, and has a high state property tax but a low local property tax burden.
I wonder how Gerogia can have a better highway system than Washington and only tax motorists 7.5 cents a gallon (2003).
They use revenue streams other than gas sales tax.
” At the same time Washington was taxing us 28 cents a gallon. Now it is 31 cents a gallon and set to rise to 37.5 cents a gallon.”
Right, but Washington has no income tax and low car tab tax.
“If you convince me that Georgia spends as much money on their highways as Washington does, I will vote against I-912 but until then…”
Overall, Georgia burdens their citizens about the same as Washington. One big difference, Washington is rated MUCH higher for Business climate (Washington is 9th, Georgia is 20th). I sure as hell would rather live here than in Gerogia, even if it eats up 0.2% more of my income.
dj:
All very good points. I’m glad that Bob will be voting against 912 now. And I repeat, I would rather have to build roads anywhere in Georgia than anywhere here. Atlanta isn’t borderd by water on two sides, and full of hills (or, mountains, as they would call them back east). Their weather conditions are not as extreme (I would like to compare the snow removal budget for Spokane with all of Georgia), and their standard of living is not nearly as good. But if you are happy with Georgia, feel free to move there.
At least state and local taxes in Georgia are a hell of a lot less regressive than state and local taxes in Washington.
In Georgia, the bottom 20% pay 10.9% in state and local taxes, while the top 1% pay 7.4% in state and local taxes.
In Washington, the bottom 20% pay 17.6% in state and local taxes, while the top 1% pay 3.3% in state and local taxes. Washington’s state and local tax system is by far the most regressive in the entire U.S.
All the more reason to vote FOR I-912, and stop a further increase in the regressive gasoline tax. Especially when an extremely disproportionate amount of the project money (almost 60%) is going to the state’s wealthiest county — King with less than 30% of the population. And even more so where an extra $1 billion is being spent for a tunnel to increase wealthy downtown property values, and another $400 million to lower Aurora Avenue for the benefit of billionaire Paul Allen.
It is really unfortunate that the Northwest “Progressive” Institute, which runs “Washington Defense” really ain’t all that “progressive” at all. They should practice what they preach.
Goldy
Letting NPI run the No compaign is about the dumbest idea possible. One of the most partisan lefty groups around? Don’t you realize that bi-partisan voting is the only way 912 will be beat?
Reply @ 15: Well said. You go my brother!
Reply @ 17: ….’If you don’t like it vote the politicians out yourself….’ Well, let’s see, in that regard the people of the State of Washington DID NOT vote lil Queen Crissy into office in the first place! And yes, Judge Bridges voted his own personal views on the election contest; dosen’t make it right. Douche-bags! See ya at the polls!
Roger Rabbit- (all posts): Get a life; you’re on here far too much to have one! You appear to be a 40 watt bulb in a 60 watt socket. Go hug your fucking tree you moron.
Richard @ 56:
Didn’t know you were in favor of an income tax.