I’m guessing by the time ballots are cast this November, most voters will know that Initiative 1098 would raise taxes on households earning over $400,000 a year. But what most voters might not realize is that I-1098 will save the vast majority of us money, especially homeowners and small business owners.
For example, I’ll save $173.00 in the first year alone.
How do I know? Well, I ran my income and my annual property tax through the nifty I-1098 calculator created by the Economic Opportunity Institute… a calculator I’ve embedded below for your convenience below. Try it yourself and see how much money you’ll save.
Wow! Why isn’t this information general knowledge?
Wow, I’d save over $4,000. That’s money that could be sent to progressive causes and candidates to help prevent the spread of wingnuttia.
When you sell your home you will get screwed
When the legislature screws with the initiative and lowers the minimum, we will all be paying state income taxes of 5% to 9% and this will continue to be raised.
When the rich move to an income tax free state, less tax revenue
LD @ 3
Bullshit, bullshit, and uber-bullshit.
Get a life, ya fucking loser.
LD @3, or should it be LSD? We’ve debunked your stupid-ass, Faux Noos, dog whistle, rinse and repeat bullshit until we’re blue in the face.
Please feel free to move to Arkansas or Alabama at your first convenience.
Let’s take up a collection to help LD move the fuck out of our fine state. He’d be happier in Oklahoma and we’d be happier to have him gone. That’s called win-win.
LD is such a loser that even the old joke about state rivalries — if he moved from X to Y, it would raise the average IQ of both states — might not apply in this case.
The single biggest impediment from you paying state income tax is the lack of a current state income tax.
It’s a heck of a lot easier to lower income tax rates than to create an entire mechanism to collect income taxes and prove its constitutionality.
We could trade LD to Oklahoma for a raccoon and our state’s IQ would rise. Oklahoma’s collective IQ is pretty much flatlined, so that wouldn’t really matter.
$231 bucks will come in very handy in the Zotz household.
DB,
Bullshit and more bullshit.
Implementation is not an obstacle. And there is no requirement to prove constitutionality. Rather, someone with standing would have to challenge the new law in court and prove it is NOT constitutional.
@3: LD. When you sell your house, I believe the first $500,000 is exempt from federal tax and not counted as “income” (filing jointly).
But let me clue you in on this, when you sell your soul to the rich scum who work ceaselessly to take everything this miraculous country produces, you go to hell. Give it some thought.
Well, I am hoping you are right that for once we could make our tax system more fair, less regressive and pass a measure that will NOT make us less competitive for rich people and good businesses no matter what the idiots say.
But you are again counting on a rationale reaction from voters who you are asking to vote on this on reason and not emotion. I know friends who will have to pay under 1098 and still strongly support it and I salute them. So why are so many progressives who will never reach these levels of income so skeptical? We better solve that problem before October and November.
The wingnuttia has reached atmospheric levels this time around. Something like 54% of the flying monkees believe Obama strongly supports the radical Muslim philosophy, and is working toward that goal.
But could a real progressive be skeptical of 1098?
I just calculated that I would save $71.60. Nice. Of course the right wing smear machine doesn’t care about me or my family. Instead they will lie lie lie about 1098. Tim Eyeman should be a 1098 supporter – he’ll be able to gin up at least 2 retaliatory initiative campaigns if I-1098 passes.
I never understand why the conservatives are just certain that this will translate to a general income tax on everyone. We have a dem majority and a dem governor and it took 30 days for them after the official end of the session to get up the balls to impose a lame array of taxes that no one really notices. If you do, buy a Twix. It has flour in it and is exempt.
So even with no roadblocks in their way, the supposed “tax and spend” democrats did neither. They slashed expenditures, imposed furloughs and fretted about any tax increase.
Slingshot- in short, the answer is yes, many real progressives I know who have spent decades fighting real fights in our state are skeptical of tax creep. Because times really are tough, and our legislature has not been a profile in courage against big busioness and big income tax breaks.
Obviously, 1098 is a radical departure from creeping regressive taxes. But that regressivity is all we have ever known in WA for decades. So part of the challenge is to convince progressives in our base that this is the right direction and that we are finally taking a progressive step, and that we will stay the course. 1098 taxes will never be “raised” in the future (or lowered down the income ladder) by a gutless legislature unless the people demand it. But people need to be educated and convinced of that fact.
It is a rational reaction for progressives who have watched nothing but tax regression in their adult lives to be skeptical of what our legislature will do.
BTW, the tax loophole scrutiny being led by Sen. Rockefeller and Sen. Gordon should also be our next tax fairness crusade after winning this fight. And isn’t it nice to see an actual gutsy freshman in a really tough race like Randy Gordon, taking really gutsy stands on an issue like tax reform and ending unwarranted tax breaks. We need to protect him, and we need more like him.
@3 THE PEOPLE (yanno, the people who actually live and vote here, not Eyman’s paid mercenaries or the Fox Noise liars) are doing this because the bought-and-paid-for legislature can’t get its collective head out of its collective ass and do a God damned thing.
Absolutely not!! No income tax for Washington! Never, never, ever!!
If this thing passes, you’ll all live to regret it, and I’m not fucking joking here! If you feel strongly about an income tax in Washington, then mail a check to the Department of Revenue to ease your conscience.
As for me, I’ll take the system we have now rather than being forced to share my financial information with something as corrupt as state government! What I make is none of this state’s business.
You’ll save $173.00? wow. Selling your birthright for a mess of pottage. The fed income tax started as a tax ‘on the rich only’ and what reason is there to believe that a state income tax would not evolve similarly?
Wow! I’ll save a whopping $75!
Once we have an income tax, it’s just a matter of time before the rest of us are paying it. Do they ELIMINATE any taxes? NO.
Setting aside that this is questionable under our state Constitution (at best), it’s no go.
I’ll save 117.00.
And what’s this deal about owing more when you sell your house? The federal tax code has always refused to acknowledge capital gains on the sale of a home when another home of equal or greater value is purchased. The initiative derives it’s recognition of income from the same federal system.
The only time you might realize a capital gain on the sale of your home is when you retire and “down-size”, or go into a nursing home. But at that point your income is very low as you are in retirement – so you’ve avoided the tax on appreciation in your home entirely. And just to make sure, there is the healthy exemption which removes most middle-class people from accidently paying any such tax.
Of course, in all this hyperbole trying to scare people into thinking that this tax is going to hit the middle-class, they are avoiding the fact that the current revenue system is unsustainable.
First, the big businesses got themselves pretty much excluded from B&O taxes (Boeing), and in some cases even sales taxes (Seattle Times). Other industry-specific exemptions or artificially low rates followed. Then Eyman took most personal property taxes off the table with the car tab issue. Then property (real estate) taxes were targeted.
The pool of people left to tax still made up the bulk of the population, but they represented progressivly smaller portions of the economy of the state. All that was left was to raise sales taxes a bit more to make up the difference, and to try to use band-aid approaches like taxing soda.
Of course, the right-wing mantra is “less government”, and they want to starve the current government to the point where it is completely unable to do it’s intended functions, at which point they will want us to hand government functions over to them to perform for us – at a price. If we are unwilling to do that, then our only other choices are some form of tax increase – and 1098 seems to be the best of the options available.
@23 “the current revenue system is unsustainable”
DING! DING! DING! DING!
@19 Yawwwwwwn…..
Lessee, a few weeks back you were bloviating about how all those southern states were going to suck away our industry because they’re oh, so “friendly” to big business and rich people.
So, tell me…which of those doesn’t have a state income tax?
Alabama? Nope.
Arkansas? Nope.
Georgia? uh-uh.
Louisiana? No.
Maryland? They’ve got one.
Mississippi? Same thing.
The Carolinas? Well, at least South Carolina’s is comparatively low.
Tennessee? Got one.
Virginia? Ditto.
West Virginia? Likewise.
Looks like that only leaves Florida and Texas.
@ 23 specifically your last paragraph, “Of course, the right-wing mantra is “less government”, and they want to starve the current government to the point where it is completely unable to do it’s intended functions, at which point they will want us to hand government functions over to them to perform for us – at a price.” — how absurdly ignorant!
You guys need to get a clue. Most conservatives want ‘Federal’ government sized to its original Constitutional intent. They believe in local governance for most daily activities. As in many conversations I read on this blog you mix apples and storks and don’t truely understand what you are talking about — only “spewing” your bile without really trying to listen or understand any other point of view.
@ 26
Like you know what the hell the ‘original Constitutional intent’ was. The framers didn’t know what the needs and reality of society would be in 200+ years and so they created a Supreme Court and a congress: to enable our democratic society to make appropriate laws that reflect the current values, needs and reality of the times. That includes taxes and revenues. My complaint with the right wing is that it is narcissistic, racist, gun-fetishist, and wannabe fascist. And ultimately delusional – if given their way the leaders of the right wing (both corporate and political) would control our country with continuous fear, hate, widespread poverty, violence, unending wars and little or no personal freedoms except to exploit (or shoot) your neighbor. Kind of like the direction the country has been going in ever since Reagan was president.
@25
and how many of those states that have an income tax also have a crazy high sales tax, like this state does?
@28
Alabama has a state general sales tax of 4 percent, plus any additional local taxes which can amount to a combined total sales tax of up to 12 percent in some cities
Arkansas has a state sales tax of 6.00%, plus any additional local taxes
Georgia. As of July 2008, total sales tax rates in Georgia are 3% for groceries and 7% for other items in the vast majority of its 159 counties.
Louisiana has a 4% state sales tax: Orleans Parish collects the maximum 5% tax rate for a total of 9% on general purpose items.[68]
Maryland has a 6% state sales and use tax
Mississippi has a 7% state sales tax.
North Carolina has a state-levied sales tax of 5.75%, effective September 1, 2009, with most counties adding an additional 2% tax, for a total tax of 7.75% in 92 of the 100 counties.
South Carolina has a 6% state sales tax, as of June 1, 2007 (7% for accommodations), but counties and some cities may impose an additional 1% or 2% sales tax. As of mid-2005, 35 of 46 counties do so.
Tennessee charges 5.5% sales tax on groceries as of January 1, 2008, and 7% on other items. Counties also tax up to 2.75% in increments of 0.25% — most do so around 2.25% = the majority of TN taxpayers pay 9.25%.
Virginia has a general sales tax rate of 5%
West Virginia currently stands at 6%.
Washington has a 6.5% statewide sales tax.
On November 4, 2008, voters in King County (Seattle) approved a 0.5% increase in the sales tax. Taxes within the city were increased to 9.5% on retail purchases.
Crazy high sales tax? Not really.
And remember, if you don’t buy much, you don’t pay much in taxes.
I will vote for an income tax, if and only if, they 100% and completely get rid of the sales tax. Not all three. No way.
@19, @25, @28, @29 Here’s an object lesson that opponents of 1098 (at least those who post here) are either misinformed or lying. I wouldn’t be surprise if they themselves didn’t know which.
@25,
Artfart,
Go fuck yourself. I’m talking about invasion of privacy, not about whether WA is a good place for a business to start. If you feel so fucking strongly about paying a tax to the state for your income, then put your fucking money where your mouth is and send a check to the Department of Revenue in Olympia.
Do any of you morons think the other taxes will go away if we enact an income tax? Sure, they may lessen to a degree, but it won’t take very long before they will eventually be voted-in by the have-nots (and never will be a “have” because they’re morons), and we’ll be stuck with an invasive income tax and all the other taxes we currently have. CAN’T YOU GET THIS THROUGH YOUR FUCKING HEADS: IT’S IMPOSSIBLE TO GIVE GOVERNMENT “ENOUGH” MONEY – IT WILL ALWAYS WANT MORE!!
Enacting an income tax in WA will be enabling the seizure of wealth by the government class for the use and benefit of the government class.
Blue John,
An income tax will NOT get rid of the other taxes. Look at California as an example of how it’s just another tax to re-distribute wealth from the working and business classes in order that government can have nice pay, secure jobs, good health care and great pensions.
When are you guys going to send you checks for income taxes to the DOR? I’m sure they’ll love to keep anything your send. As for me, I’ll take what we have now rather than having an income tax.
Yea. . . this didn’t work out too good for me. I’m paying more, a lot more. Need to start taking my tips in cash.
Can’t help but agree with my fellow wing nuts (you know who you are), that this is the proverbial Camels nose under the tent. Once passed, the rates will go up and the income level will come down.
ohmygod if we have an income tax we might fall down to the income per capita level of california, ct, md or canada!!!!if we have an income tax, we might lose population to wyoming the way that oregon and idaho are!! ohmygod, if we have an income tax, all those rich folks living in $10 million waterfront homes on lake washington with boats and floatplanes because they have access to an incredible pool of hi tech talent here plus waterfront homes plus first class symphony and arts, plus skiing and boating, well they will all immediately move to capser wyoming where they can save 4% of their $5 million a year income and have cow hands for a work force, woo hoo, and watch the wind blow — yes if we have an income tax the shores of lake washington the view areas of magnolia and the cities of medina and yarrow point will be deserted wastelands!!!! That’s what has happened to Sutton Place NYC, and Georgetown Washington Dc and Darien Connecticut, total wastelands with no rich people whatsoever!!! They’ve all moved to Laramie and Casper!
@32: If you file fed income tax, the state already knows how much you make. You’re being paranoid.
@34: There are few (if any) of us here who are ever going send a check to DOR for income tax.
If my wife and I somehow made 401k (won’t happen), I’d be gushing with happiness to fork over the nickel that would cost me.
Lighten up, man.
@32 Temper temper temper! Why not just admit you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about?
the lazy and the stupid get to vote themselves more freebees(and a tax cut) paid for by everyone else.
aint democracy grand…..
Hey @3 and all the rest, I-1098 itself has accountability measures in the text of the law. It would not allow the legislature to change the tax rates or who pays them without a vote of the people. So the tax only hits the very wealthy, we get to fund education and health care and we still get to save money. Democracy is grand!
@41
Lisa, and we have all seen how the state’s legislature can change the wording of any law – or overturn voter approved measures AT THEIR DISCRETION.
You will have to excuse me if I dont trust our legislature on this one….The proven liars in Olympia dont deserve my trust.
@42 Bullshit. Go back and read the post your reptilian brain is responding to: 1098 doesn’t give back to the Legislature any of the powers that Tim Eyman’s initiatives took away. Nor, for that matter, does it do anything to make the Legislature any less incapable of making any important decisions than it’s been for about the last 20 years.
So, altering this in the future would imply a vote of the people–not just the rich ones. This, in case you’ve never heard of it, is called “democracy”.
@43
so in your democracy, if the majorty of people in this country decide to take away voting rights for blacks, you would OK with it – because its “a democracy”.
in a REAL democracy, EVERYONE has the same skin the game. Its not a few people paying a lot, some people paying a little, and a shitload of people paying nothing.
but then, thats a little to inconvenient for you, isnt it.
@44 Yeah…but everybody has the same amount of skin in the game. It’s “one (hu)man, one vote”, not “one dollar, one vote”.
Mind you, there are some ways in which the founders built some inertia into the system, so that for instance it’s a rather involved process to amend the Constitution, to prevent “tyranny of the majority”, driven by some kind of induced mass hysteria, from leading to something most of us would later sorely regret.
In the past, we didn’t have voting rights for blacks…or women. Somewhere along the way a majority consensus developed that those should be changed. It’s unfortunate that there was so much controversy because a backwards minority had to be dragged along, kicking and screaming.