House prices continue in free-fall.
In the past year the median sales price fell 13.2% — the largest decline since data collection began in 1968 and likely since the Great Depression — to $181,300. Separately, the Federal Housing Finance Agency reported that U.S. home prices fell 7.5% over the 12 months ending in October, according to a monthly index that includes prices for houses with mortgages that have been sold to or guaranteed by Fannie Mae… (or Freddie Mac.)
At The Big Picture, Barry Ritholtz observes:
I find the monthly spin from the NAR laughable. They attribute November’s results to a “weak stock market, job losses and low consumer confidence.” They never seem to recall that Real Estate prices remain too high relative to incomes and rental prices. This is the hangover from the credit bubble.
With the always necessary caveat that there are individual real estate agents and builders who are honest, stand-up individuals, the house building and selling industry bears a huge portion of the blame for this hellish economic mess. It strains credulity to think that the absurd loans and absurd prices came about without widespread criminality and malfeasance.
True capitalists will realize that effective regulation is required in the future. Of course, that won’t stop the stink tank denizens from railing against all things governmental, but I still fail to understand why progressives have to be the only pragmatists.
There needs to be a dramatic change in the zeitgeist in this state and country that defines conservatives in terms of their outdated, delusional and dangerous preconceptions about economics. It’s kind of sunk in, but not widely enough. Neo-liberalism was not only wrong, it failed so miserably that I wouldn’t be surprised if historians someday equate it with the demise of Soviet Communism.
The bidness guys and gals have sneered at everyone for so long, with such utter contempt, that this is the perfect time to teach certain corrupt industries that the government is there to protect all the people, including consumers of major purchases like houses. I mean, you buy a car you get a warranty, you buy a house, well, you know, good luck with that! You should have known the plumbing contractor hired summer help and inspected each pipe yourself before you bought it, and you should have waited out the housing bubble even though you like, needed a place to live.
When the corrupt industry starts its facile whining that they are being “punished” and promise doom and gloom forever, as they do with any proposed regulation whatsoever, they can be sternly reminded that basic consumer rights are not a punishment, they are a normal way to regulate industries that have proven they can’t be trusted. And right now there is no industry more untrustworthy than the house building, selling and finance industry. If restoring the house market requires restoring consumer confidence, reform at both the state and national level is urgently required, seeing as we’re throwing trillions of our dollars at the problem.
This Bloomberg piece about the collapse of Chicago School economics that Ritzholtz links to is pretty good reading:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....M&
Personally, I think Wingnut Whack-O-Nomics’ ultimate absurdity (there are many candidates) is the Texas law protecting shady homebuilders from buyers of defective houses.
On the very rare occasions when you do get economic regulation from conservatives that’s the kind of regulation you get. Now, the billionaire homebuilders behind the Texas law want to export it to the other 49 states, including ours, and the BIAW will do everything possible to bring it here.
No rational person would ever buy a new home in Texas unless they hate their money. Anyone even thinking about it should visit one of the many web sites documenting Texas new-home horror stories. If we ever get a similar law here, it ought to mean the end of new home construction in our state. How can anyone risk buying a new home under a law that takes away buyers’ right to sue in the courts (even if there’s fraud) and puts them at the mercy of a private arbitration “court” controlled by the homebuilders?
We bent over and ass-fucked the GOP because they allowed our economy to crumble. The housing market is just one symptom of their stupid policies. That’s why America rejected, ran from and defeated the lies, hate and distortion of the right.
We bent over the GOP and fucked them in the ass on Nov 4 so from now on, what they think about the economy is irrelevant. What they want – irrelevant. What they hope and dream.. irrelevant.
The GOP had their chance and what did they do with it? They literally tried to destroy our country. So what did we do? We destroyed them.
They’re shit – they’re nothing – they’re worthless. Now we move on to fix their mess.
Until we bend them over again that is.
Jon–
Have you attempted to ascertain the impact of the Housing Market on State and Local Government Budgets??
If you look, you will find it is critical..
Permit Fees
Sales Tax
B&O Tax
Real Estate Excise Tax
Wages..including Unemployment Tax & Workers Comp.
The list goes on & on.
Good thing you KLOWNS work so hard to kill the Construction Industry…considering the massive Direct & Indirect impact it has on Government Revenues & Jobs!!
As Governor Gregoire goes thru the Budget, pay special attention to the Revenue Declines.
Special Note to Morons:
The Revenue comes primarily from Commercial Activity. When Commercial Activity declines, it impacts tax revenue.
It also impacts Taxable Earnings of business owners.
You KLOWNS want an Income Tax….but at what level?? To balance the current Budget Deficit?? That would be a mighty high, job-killing tax rate.
If the Income Tax is not a TAX INCREASE as you profess, then it ought to be set to collect CURRENT levels of revenue….otherwise, it’s a TAX INCREASE.
Spend some time reviewing the Budget.
It’s fascinating…but needs a lot more ‘splaining.
PS–
When will the State Retirement Fund Annual Report for 6/30/08 be coming out??
6-months past the year-end & nada.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I Wonder if it will be delayed until the Budget is adopted?? Gregoire & Dems mentioned something about further “underfunding” to balance the next biennium Budget.
Let’s see, it was UNDERFUNDED by $5.1 BILLION @ 6/30/07. There was $38 BILLION invested in Equity Markets which plummeted. They have plummeted even more since 6/30/08.
How could Gregoire and the Dem Legislature possibly rationalizing underfunding it further??
Seems like a Ponzi Scheme!!!!!!!!!
Take money now for current programs & operations…lay more debt off on our Kids.
Will you KLOWNS support UNDERFUNDED the State Retirement Fund further????
Oh yeah, it’s ok to do when it’s yer gal in charge!
In 1979, I remember reading a book on the Stock Market Crash of 1929 (that being the 25th anniversary of the crash). One of the comments recorded was a fellow who sold all his stock shortly before the crash. “When I hear the elevator operator talking about all the money he’s making in the stock market, then I know it’s time to get out”, he said (paraphrasing from memory).
Occassionally I would buy a house, rehab it, and re-sell it. I didn’t “push” the business because it was something I did on the side, and I only wanted to do it when I found a property that had potential for significant improvement with some small rehab work. Usually it was properties which were structurally sound, but lacked “street appeal” for some reason which could be easiliy corrected. I intentionally looked for pictures of “ugly” houses based on their pictures in the MLS, and found a few which met my criteria.
But once the HGTV channel started back-t0-back home improvement shows, and even several shows appeared with titles like “Flip This House”, I realized it was time to get out. The only thing worse than competing with people who know what they are doing is competing with people who DON’T know what they are doing. They drive up the prices of real estate and contracted labor to the point where nobody is making a profit. When that happens, the best thing to do is to take some time off, and wait for the the market to shake out the get-rich-quick guys, and then step back in later.
I had a similar conversation, years ago, with a contractor who was desperately trying to bid projects against other contractors who were equally desperate. There are times when it makes sense just to take an extended vacation and wait for things to improve, rather than get into a bidding war where you are working for nothing.
re 5: Property taxes are an income tax — and will become more so.
“Mary Cohn says her family spent $700,000 on their new Bellaire home and then they needed another $500,000 to fix it…”
Quoted under fair use from New Home Builders NewsBlog.com.
Roger Rabbit Commentary: What homebuilders want is a free hand to increase their profits by cutting corners in materials and construction techniques, and legal immunity from the expense of repairing the resulting problems, which frequently include mold, leaking roofs, crumbling foundations, cracked walls, warped floors, weeping siding, and so on. Buyer complaints involve many of the nation’s largest and best known builders. For example, in Arizona more than 1,000 buyers have joined a class action against a major builder. It’s not uncommon to find the same construction defects in literally hundreds of homes in a given development, especially in planned communities and retirement communities. The dark truth is that the nation’s major homebuilding companies are building and selling crap, and using their political muscle to keep defrauded buyers from seeking recourse against them. The new-home industry is rife with shady construction practices and consumer fraud — there are few sectors of the American economy in greater need of more regulation and expanded legal remedies than homebuilding. And organizations like BIAW are dedicated to making sure it doesn’t happen.
DeVore bemoans corporate corruption as a product of free markets. Problem is that laissez faire capitalism hasn’t been around for quite a while and government is one of the actual culprits in this mess. True, the disaster happened on Bush’s watch and he deserves his lumps but the CRA signed by Clinton certainly stoked the fire. Add in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac being encouraged by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd et al to make riskier and more riskier loans and you have a bonfire. CEOs of both Freddie & Fannie gave heavily to Democrats that would protect them. Coincidentally, Barney Frank was having a homosexual affair with a top Fannie Mae executive named Herb Moses and you can guess who was protecting whom.
I make no brief for the greediness of Wall Street but they couldn’t accomplish what they did without government help.
It became the perfect storm. A blind eye government coincided with greedy lenders and foolish borrowers who set out to buy houses everybody knew they couldn’t afford.
“Progressives” have to eat their share of the blaming.
Look, this meat axe that Gregoire is taking to the budget means:
1) People who want to go college to have a whimper of a chance at a job can’t do it.
2) poor kids don’t get vaccinated or don’t get all the care they need and flood the emergency rooms later.
3) All kinds of road and public equipment maintenance is put off and infrastructure crumbles that much more.
I could go on and on…
This is all the fallout of politicians who are too scared to have an honest discussion with the voters about what it takes to fund public services that are in huge demand.
They’re scared of fear-mongers like Mr. C. who don’t even live in this State.
It seems to me if you spend $700,000 on a new home that needs $500,000 of repairs to make it habitable, the land is probably worth at least $200,000 so the home itself is worthless and probably the best thing to do with it is bulldoze it and start over. When the homebuilding industry wants to leave you twisting in the wind after taking $700,000 from you, why should anyone trust them or buy anything from them?
@5 Typical hogwash from Cynical. Workers comp and unemployment taxes don’t support local government. Those taxes go 100% to supporting programs injured and unemployed workers, except for the skim taken by BIAW off L&I to fund their illegal campaign donations and smear ads.
Workers comp laws were a historic compromise between employers and workers in the first decade of the 20th century. Workers gave up the right to sue employers for workplace negligence in exchange for guaranteed benefits in case of on-the-job injury. Employers wanted it because they got certainty and a limit to their liability. It was also an important social reform because until then, courts typically favored employers, and workers who were injured o the job were often dumped on the street without means to support themselves, becoming a burden on society.
Unemployment benefits were a Depression-era economic reform enacted as part of the Social Security Act. They not only protect workers unemployed through no fault of their own from economic calamity, but also help protect the economy by protecting the purchasing power of unemployed workers.
@5 “Good thing you KLOWNS work so hard to kill the Construction Industry”
More bullshit from the goatfucking CyniKLOWN. The Construction Industry is killing itself. But CyniKLOWN wants you to believe that defrauded buyers are responsible for defective construction, and defrauded borrowers are responsible for the bad loans that resulted from irresponsible lending practices. No wonder the credibility of wingnuts is collapsing and voters are running away from the GOP as fast as they can!
@7 Property taxes are not equivalent to an income tax. If you own a home, you pay property taxes, regardless of whether you have income from which to pay them. One of the Depression stories I remember is of a New York homeowner who lost his home to taxes. He was a New York City employee who hadn’t been paid his wages for over a year, yet the city took his home for taxes he couldn’t pay because they weren’t paying him for his work! The taxes on your house are the same regardless of what your income is, unless you qualify for a low-income senior citizen tax break, but the income threshold for that is so low that only the truly poor qualify for it. Property taxes are not a substitute for a state income tax, and in fact are regressive because they hit young families (who typically have less income and higher expenses) the hardest. Property taxes are a fair way to share the cost of things like sewer improvements and public parks that benefit the local neighborhood, but because of their regressivity and the burden they place on already-stretched young homebuyers, they are a lousy way to raise revenue for general government.
@9 “government is one of the actual culprits in this mess”
Bullshit! This mess was created by private actors in the private markets, and happened because of too little, not too much, government regulation.
@10 CyniKLOWN is a shill for those who believe the rich shouldn’t pay taxes.
In a probably hopeless effort to get this thread back on topic, your friendly resident real estate agent will chime in.
Yes, my industry did a lot of the damage.
There are several reasons why this happened. Greed is, of course, one of them, but is not alone.
Normal, everyday greed will encourage folks to do whatever they think the law allows to make a buck. In the real estate sales biz, that normal, everyday greed gets compounded by the fact that very little training is required of real estate salespeople.
In the “old days”, the idea was that a new agent would be closely supervised by an experienced broker, who was personally responsible for anything the agent did. The training was just enough for the new agent to understand what the broker was talking about.
A broker might have as many as 15 or 20 agents, most of them with years of experience, and one or two newbies.
Cut to today. How many of you have walked into a name-brand real estate agency recently? Here in Gig Harbor (pop 8,000) we have four large ones (each with between 75 and 125 agents) a couple of medium sized agencies (with about 50 agents) and then there’s us small fry (averaging around 15 agents) Windermere just swallowed up one of the medium sized independents, so I think they’re currently the largest at around 125.
One broker, 125 agents. Did you know that most agents today have less than two years experience? Most new agents drop out of the business before their first renewal date.
But, (he said sarcasticly) of course anyone that gets a licence to counsel folks on the purchase or sale of their single largest asset must have a lot of training these days, right?
Sixty hours. Not sixty semester hours, or sixty quarter hours. Sixty hours total. Then, every two years, a licencee must complete thirty additional hours of training. (There was a Feng Shue class recently that counted as three clock hours.)
(To get a licence to cut hair in the State of Washington requires 2,000 hours training.)
There is, of course, some “good news” coming. Well, sort of, anyway. Sometime next year, the licencing law is being changed to require 90 hours of training.
The big brokerages love this new law, by the way. Why? Because in return for that little concession, all agents will officially become “brokers” (won’t Dino be pleased), and the agency will have much reduced liability for their actions.
So, what to do? Here are some thoughts.
1st. DOL needs more investigators. Right now they are over-worked and can only respond to serious problems. They have no time for even the most cursory examination of agents that aren’t being actively accused of serious breaches of licencing law.
2nd. Increase the training requirement. The new 90 hour requirement is still woefully inadequate. Perhaps 30 semester hours (the requirement to become a Medical Assistant) would be about right.
3rd. Strengthen the “direct supervision” requirement for new agents. The supervising broker should be required to personally review all actions of the new agent.
Would any of this stop deliberate, systematic abuse within a real estate office? No, of course not.
But it would make sure that agents at least knew their business, and could help to hold them accountable for deliberate attempts to deceive clients (about what they could afford) and lenders (about what the clients could repay).
And that would be an excellent start.
“A blind eye government coincided with greedy lenders and foolish borrowers”
Well, it’s high time for the government to get new fucking glasses. Yanno….the non-rose-colored kind.
2 Reminds me a bit of the notorious builder in Huntsville, Alabama who recruited his crews at the “Boobie Bungalow” up in Tennessee…
The Revenue comes primarily from Commercial Activity. When Commercial Activity declines, it impacts tax revenue.
It also impacts Taxable Earnings of business owners.”
Genius! Revolutionary! A Harvard account, quite obviously.
RR @ 12: Adding to your discussion of the “Workman’s Compensation Compromise”….
Before workman’s compensation/industrial insurance, workman’s injuries were reimbursable only under lawsuits brought by the worker under the common law (as Roger Rabbit noted). Of course, the employers weren’t dummies, and their lawyers simply drafted a “General Release of Liability” which every worker was required to sign as a condition of employment. Since every employer quickly adopted this trick, workers simply didn’t have the option of refusing employment and looking elsewhere. This left employers pretty much able to do whatever they wanted to do, as it worker’s lives and health were pretty much considered expendable.
During those days, it was pretty easy to tell how long somebody was working for the railroad by counting how many fingers were remaining on his hand. Although safer mechanisms to couple the cars had already been invented, railroads were slow to adopt them due to the added expense – after all, they paid nothing for the railroad men who lost digits on a regular basis using the old couplers.
17 John, there’s a bit of a parallel between what you’re talking about and the two “90-day wonders” who almost managed to drop two fully-loaded tour buses onto the passing cars on I-5. For that matter, the same thing is reflected by the present-day non-union Greyhound shutting down operations for two days. Back in the day, there wasn’t a ‘hound driver on the West Coast who couldn’t marshal a double-decker Scenecruiser through the Siskiyous in a howling blizzard. One also can’t help but wonder if Alaska/Horizon had to shut down because their minimum-wage ramp workers either didn’t show up or kept falling on their butts from slipping on the ice in their untied homeboy sneaks.
Barelli @ 17: Reminds me of a situation when my son was first looking for a job. He was encouraged to get calls from two insurance agents, wanting him to come in for an interview.
Now, I didn’t think this was a good fit. My son is a smark kid (what father thinks otherwise?), but he’s not a salesman. He sees things far too practically for that. He’s a problem-solver, so I think he would be a good engineer. Few of them make good salesmen.
But he discovered what I already suspected – these insurance agents perpetually had advertisements for “new agents”, young people who were interested in learning the business, but what they really wanted was to hire a kid who would go out and sign up his/her parents, grandparents, other relatives, neighbors, and former teachers. Once they had used up their personal contacts and their sales drop (usually within three months or so), they are cut loose, and somebody else is brought on board, and the process is repeated.
From the experience of some friends of mine who tried their hand at real estate, the process is the same there – lots of brokers bring people on board as “independent contractors”, who don’t get paid any wage but instead are expected to pay into the broker’s pocket. Once they have used up their family and friends, they are sent to man the booths in the mall (time consuming with little chance to actually make a sale), and then cut loose.
John425 @ 9: The CRA has been around since the 1970’s. Clinton wasn’t President at the time. And the CRA had nothing to do with the current mortgage collapse, despite the banking industries attempt to make it a scape-goat. CRA loans have not defaulted at any higher a rate than other loans. In fact, it’s what’s known as the mega-mortgages(mortgages in excess of $500,000) which are causing the most problems.
@20 Regarding the idiotic spew @5 that “The revenue comes primarily from commercial activity,” it must be comforting to this state’s millions of homeowners paying property taxes of $3,000 to $7,000 a year (or more) that their contributions to the state, county, and municipal fiscs doesn’t amount to a hill of beans and the real freight is being carried by the business community.
(Never mind the $3 billion of baksheesh that our state gave to Boeing keep jobs here — at least Boeing didn’t ask taxpayers to pay their workers’ wages, like some businesses do. Boeing only asked us to pay for the training costs.
Also, don’t pay any attention to the millions of dollars that we taxpayers routinely gift to businesses for infrastructure improvements and other business costs to get them to bring minimum wage jobs to our communities, for example the Cabela’s store in Lacey.
Oh yes, I own Cabela’s stock, lots of it, because I know a good deal when I see one. No company in America excels at milking taxpayers better than Cabelas. They have made an art form of getting local communities to pony up $50 million for stores that cost $30 million to build — and getting tax concessions that ensure those stores will pay no property taxes during the lifetimes of any person now living … and in some states, Cabela’s has even cut deals that let them keep the sales taxes they collect … you bet your ass I own their stock! And I’d buy stock in the Mafia, too, if they were a public company.)
6 My bride and I spent a year house hunting after we were married in the 70’s. We ended up buying a place in Wedgwood for which the payments on a “conventional” 30-year mortgage were no great burden with both of us working, and not much of a challenge on one income, which was fortuitous when she went back to school, and later when we had our kids. In the late 80’s, when interest rates dipped due to the Reagan Recession, we refinanced to fund a modest addition which mainly enlarged the kitchen and dining room so we could take over hosting big family get-togethers from our aging parents. We paid off that mortgage ‘way ahead of schedule (and in those days, banks didn’t charge a penalty for doing so) and the first house we bought has served well to raise our children. At the same time, it’s not so enormous (and expensive to heat and maintain) that it isn’t perfectly reasonable for us to remain in as we approach retirement. Some day it’ll probably be sold or reverse-mortgaged to take care of us when we’re really old and sick, and hopefully pass a few bucks on to the kids when we shuffle off this mortal coil. We’ve always thought of our house as shelter, not as something to be leveraged to buy a lot of toys and pretend we’re swells.
Shelter is one of the basic necessities of life. For the full force of the Great American Marketing Engine to be brought to bear to convince people that it’s a gambling chip is just plain wrong.
@22 Speaking of 90-day wonders, media are reporting that unusual mechanical noises were heard on the flight recorder just before yesterday’s plane crash, and I’ll bet you anything that wreck gets traced to a mechanical failure that traces back to shoddy outsourced maintenance. You get what you pay for, and if you get on an airplane that isn’t maintained by union labor, you don’t value your life very much.
When well built houses in good neighborhoods in Seattle drop below $200,000, then I’ll consider buying. (I know, it’s not likely, but then, if the republicans keep holding the economy hostage, just to break the unions, it might)
What’s your price point?
@26 Forget reverse mortgages — they are bad deals. When you factor in the upfront fees, the effective interest rate in many cases would make even credit card companies blush. As for the various kinds of home loans out there, I have the best — none. The burrow I live in, be it ever so humble, is mine! But property taxes are out of control — they’ve tripled in the 18 years I’ve lived in this hole. Meanwhile, the inflation-adjusted value of the hole itself is less than the original purchase price. And sales taxes are getting out of control … we need an income tax in this state, and need it badly, to shift some of the tax burden to the untaxed upper class.
@28 I predict you’ll be a renter for a long time.
(grin!) Tell me about it!
it’s HELL living within my means. I wanna go back to shiny happy Reagan land and live on credit without consequences.
@29 The only way I would consider voting for an income tax is if they did like Oregon and got rid of the sales tax. Put it into the constitution that Sales Taxes were illegal. Sunset all the existing sales taxes to gradually fade away to zero over 10-20 years.
Not all three. No way.
@32 The Gates Commission recommended replacing the 6.5% state sales tax and the B & O tax with a state income tax. I support that proposal. The Commission’s study of tax impacts showed Washington’s poorest citizens pay 4 times as much of their income in state and local taxes as the richest citizens. That’s unfair. Our highly regressive tax system also makes it difficult to raise money for education and other public needs because any new taxes are put on the backs of those least able to pay.
Well, it was bound to happen! Some idiot back east set his house on fire by using a propane torch to melt ice off the back porch. The flame got too close to the vinyl siding, which went up like marshmallows in a campfire. That’s shoddy construction for you — the builder should have used wood siding.
Why wood siding? Does it burn better and less toxic for the environment?
He sounds like a Darwin award wannabee.
@33 I’d support that. Getting rid of the B&O tax should make all the business owners happy.
Whoda thunk people that don’t make much money couldn’t pay their ballooning mortgages, and houses couldn’t appreciate 10% per year forever…..
Anyone smell anything here?
Besides a case of mass delusion? Seemed like MOST financial planners and financial talking heads didn’t see see this coming. They talked like it would go on forever.
35 When PVC burns, it releases lots and lots of highly toxic vinyl chloride gas. And yeah, it’s probably easier to get burning than painted wood, and harder to put out. Historically, a fire in a telephone central office was one kind of blaze that firefighters dreaded having to deal with, because of the fumes from all the burning wire insulation.
There have also been a distressing number of deaths so far this season of people who pulled their gas grill (or even a charcoal one) into their house or garage and tried to cook or heat with it.
It sure beats me why aluminum siding has disappeared from the market. There can’t be a lack of raw materials, between the retirement of old airliners and the economy making people go back to drinking cheap beer.
Be interested to hear Barelli’s take on all this.
@38
It was a “mass delusion” promoted by Bush and company. The New York Times has a good article on it called White House Philosophy Stoked Mortgage Bonfire that came out on December 20.
Rabbit @ #15- FYI:In the WSJ–In 2000, then-Rep. Richard Baker proposed a bill to reform Fannie and Freddie’s oversight. Mr. Frank dismissed the idea, saying concerns about the two were “overblown” and that there was “no federal liability there whatsoever.”
Two years later, Mr. Frank was at it again. “I do not regard Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as problems,” he said in response to another reform push. And then: “I regard them as great assets.” Great or not, we’ll give Mr. Frank this: Their assets are now Uncle Sam’s assets, even if those come along with $5.4 trillion in debt and other liabilities.
Again in June 2003, the favorite of the Beltway press corps assured the public that “there is no federal guarantee” of Fan and Fred obligations.
Read the whole list of Barney Frank’s great quotations that missed:
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....lenews_wsj
He is clearly a fucking idiot.
Top Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
Campaign Contributions, 1989-2008
Dodd, Kerry, Obama, Hillary and Paul Kanjorski (D-PA)
McCain was a co-sponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190
which died in committee. Dodd fought the bill vigorously. “Progressive” Democrats in government are a “youbetcha” part of the fuckup.
I’m looking at HardiPlank (sp?) siding for my house – it’s about 1/3 more expensive than vinyl siding, but it looks to be a lot more durable.
Dodd fought the bill vigorously. “Progressive” Democrats in government are a “youbetcha” part of the fuckup.
————-
Which is why when Jon DeVore comes up with these types of conclusions regularly:
but I still fail to understand why progressives have to be the only pragmatists.
you have to gag. For example, Gramm-Biley-Leach Act was not only passed by Congress, it was passed by both parties in Congress overwhelming. In the Senate the vote was 90 yes, 8 no, 1 no vote (John McCain). The Democrats voted 34 to 6 in favor including: Biden, Daschle, Dodd, Kennedy, Kerry, Reid and Schumer.
See: http://www.govtrack.us/congres.....sort=party
In the House, the legislation received similar strong bipartisan support with 362 yes, 57 no, 15 no votes. The Democrates voted 151 yes, 50 no, 4 no votes.
See: http://www.govtrack.us/congres.....=h1999-570.
Bill Clinton signed it into law on November 12, 1999. Here’s what he had to say about it at the signing:
“You heard Senator Gramm characterize this bill as a victory for freedom and free markets. And Congressman LaFalce characterized this bill as a victory for consumer protection. And both of them are right. And I have always believed that one required the other.”
See: http://bulk.resource.org/gpo.g.....2_2080.pdf
Here’s what Chris Dodd had to say about it as recently as March 2007:
“I am proud to have had Tom’s and the Chamber’s support on some of the most important pieces of legislation with which I have been associated. Laws like the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act; the Y2K litigation reform act; the Class Action Fairness Act; the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which has helped bring our financial services sector into the 21st century; and the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act, which in the aftermath of 9/11 has played a crucial role in keeping our economy strong.”
See: http://dodd.senate.gov/index.php?q=node/3779/print
In addition, as has been written elsewhere many times, former Clinton Treasury secretaries Larry Summers (director of Obama’s White House National Economic Council) and Robert Rubin (Obama campaign advisor) were big supporters of financial deregulation, including GBL.
re 44: You seem more interested in assigning blame than in finding solutions. If Democrats were, in fact, in control throughout the Reagan, Bush, and Baby Bush years, what does that say about Republican incompetence?
Maybe Republicans are too weak?
Ok john45553xx
Keep blaming Fannie, and Freddie. Why don’t you hit yourself on the head with that brick some more too.
Blaming the end of Reaganomics trickle down (piss on their neck) economics on Fannie, and Freddie is like blaming my dog for Katrina.
He did go pee pee so he is partly at fault….
It’s Fannie, and Freddie’s fault they sold 54 trillion dollars worth of credit default swaps? That AIG was cooking their books?
Do you need the address of the Aurora Bridge?
10. YLB spews:
Scared of ME???
Surely you jest.
YLB—Listen closely (cluck, cluck, cluck)…
That is the sound of the Chickens coming home to roost.
Gregoire increased spending by $8 BILLION despite acknowledging it couldn’t last.
She did it anyway…and now her she is.
F*CKED!
Fortunately Mrs C and I sold virtually all of our rental houses in Washington near the peak of the Market 3 years ago or so. Long-term Capital Gains at 15%. We still have 3 rentals left…filled with long-term renters and an interest in a commerical building with a 10 year lease & personal guarantees of the renters.
YLB–I pay over $25k in Property Taxes in Washington…probably quite a bit more than you. Of course I have a voice in tax matters…but your comment that Gregoire & the Dems fear someone like me is a lame-ass excuse.
The blame falls squarely on Gregoire’s shoulders. And just wait until the State Retirement Fund 6/30/08 Report comes out.
OUCH!!
Gregoire & the Legislature MUST drastically cut State Spending. It’s the right thing to do.
16. Roger Rabbit spews:
Rog, I pay waaaaaaaaaay more taxes than you do.
As a DSHS Attorney for 30 years, you milked the system and accomplished NOTHING (except scam a Pension).
Don’t be holier than thou Rog.
You stink!
37. All Facts Support My Positions spews:
Yup, stupidity & greed of BUYERS!
No one put a gun to their Pinheads & said they must buy..
More Cynical lies. That’s all he’s got. Lies.
I also love how the right wing morons want to blame the end of red lining minorities for today’s crisis too.
Pump and dump.
Understand?
@52 “Understand?”
Um, you’re talking about Cynical. Besides, his loving God told him that it’s OK to hate blacks and blame them for all things.
I see that Rush has come up with a new conspiracy theory. The Dems caused all this financial trouble so they could get elected and nationalize the nation’s banks and industries.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/.....rats-indy/
He’s nearly as whack as Cynical.
Cynical. What are we to blame Gregoire for? The fact that over 50% of the citizens of this state don’t owe more for their home than it is worth?
The fact that she didn’t let the builders build thousands of homes nobody could afford?
No wonder BIAW wanted to git rid of her. They want to go bankrupt like all the other retarded builders. McMansion central! Not!
Tell you what. If the builders want to build, have them build windmills….. Something we can use.
Builders are not out there getting away with
anything. The houses are inspected very
carefully. The inspectors are people who couldn’t make it on their own and end up
working for the gov’t and seem to love making
the self employed miserable so they are very
good at it. In fact all Washington State agencies treat business like the fucking enemy.
The average person has no idea.
Mark, you don’t get it. By making it “hard” to overbuild, we reap the benefits…..
We have tens of thousands of people who would love to sell their homes in Washington State. Many would list their home if the multiple wasnt’ stuffed to the gills already. Do we really need to build a bunch of new homes too?
Maybe someone at our State’s Capitol, and in county government doesn’t want the oceans, or sound to be dead zones, and the extinction rate (500 species a day) to go up any faster….
@56 What a hate-filled ass you are. I’ve worked with people in L&I electrical inspection and DOH Facilities, as well as every city’s building and electrical department in this state for many, many years. These are good people, knowledgable, and they do good work. I do disagree with them on many issues but there is no cause for hate. You’re just a hate-spewing BIAW asshole. It is you who has no idea.
@37 Yeah, I smell an army of unscrupulous mortgage brokers exploiting the ignorant and then saddling taxpayers with the smoking wreckage of their greed. That’s why they need to be regulated and the wingnut notion of a Wild West market is crap.
@56 Bwaaaahaaaaaahaaaaahaaahaahahaha ha ha har !!!
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
Are you rehearsing for a stand-up comedian contest?
@49 “Rog, I pay waaaaaaaaaay more taxes than you do.”
I fucking doubt it. For someone who works as hard as you do to avoid paying your fair share, it’s inconceivable that you pay as much taxes as I do.
@56, I’m an electrical contractor, thee most controlled trade in the state, hands down (for my company the code is the baseline minimum). Your post is total bullshit. I know the code inside and out, back and forth, and I support intensive and rigorous inspections. This keeps the low-life alley rat, scumbag criminals off balance, and out of the state (ok, maybe not all of them). Any general and/or subcontractor that doesn’t know and adhere to, and exceed their respective code is a shit bag looser. Let me repeat, your post is total bullshit.
@62 It sounds like we work with a lot of the same electrical inspectors at L&I and the cities. You’re quit right. Mark’s post is total BS. He’s just a hater.
This keeps the low-life alley rat, scumbag criminals off balance, and out of the state (ok, maybe not all of them).
Sounds like the racist, right wing scum @ 56.