The Hood Canal Bridge is expected to reopen tonight, more than a day earlier than highway engineers had predicted.
The bridge was to have been closed until 4 a.m. Thursday. It’s the second time in the past month that the bridge has reopened early.
I mean really… how can we ever restore faith in WSDOT if they can’t get their act together and accurately predict how long it will take to fix a stupid little bridge? Talk about a waste of tax dollars….
Having faith in WSDOT to do small projects is NOT the issue.
What most of us are concerned about is spending billions of dollars on the Alaskan Way Viaduct replacement project. Not to mention — is replacement and going without anything for the next nine years really necessary, as opposed to simply shoring up the existing structure?
And the record of WSDOT on sunken (I mean floating) bridges doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. Hood Canal Sunken Bridge. Mercer Island Sunken Bridge. And don’t forget Galloping Gertie.
Richard,
Did you miss the thread about the seawall, or are you just disingenuous?
Good job, WSDOT!
Credit should be given where credit is due. Of course, the cynic in me (not related to Mr. C) worries that they padded the time/budget estimates in order to look god, but for now I’ll take it at face value.
Goldy, you gotta understand that governmental project mismanagement — either real or perceived — has gone on for so long that a couple of on-time, on-budget projects won’t change an image overnight. And with the PA fiasco, the overall Hood Canal budget will undoubtedly be exceeded.
Seawall? Didn’t the Big Dig tunnel in Boston leak? What says that the Alaskan Way tunnel won’t leak also? And OUR tunnel would be built inside of extremely unstable fill material.
If we end up spending billions and going without SR 99 for several years, we should at least save a billion dollars (or more) and a couple years construction time by building an elevated highway, instead of a below sea level tunnel.
Goldy, cool.
I heard they successfully pounded 1 nail today at Sound Transit. That 1 nail was on time, and under budget, if you look at their most recent revised, redone, jiggered budget. I have a call into DSHS to see if any secretaries completed any stapling projects under budget.
Richard @1,
I just want to be clear here, since you’re a port commissioner candidate and all… you’re saying that $285 million is a “small” project, right?
Richard @4,
Again, a tunnel has not been chosen over an aerial replacement. But I’m curious, again, considering you are a port commissioner… which do you think the better investment is for tax payers… a $3 billion viaduct that will have to be replaced in another 50 years, or a $4 billion tunnel that will last more than a hundred years, beautify the waterfront, create a new urban park, and increase property values enormously in that area of the downtown? Just curious.
I’m not saying we should build a tunnel… I’m not sure we can afford it at this point in time. I’m just saying that there are rational, economic arguments (as well as the obvious aesthetic ones) for choosing the tunnel alternative.
Waitaminnit! This guy’s a candidate for Port Commisioner position No. 3, and he brings up a bridge which collapsed 65 years ago, as though it were relevant? The mind fairly boggles.
Richard:
While we are at it, are you saying we should vote for 912, stop all construction, and never start working on a Viaduct replacement because one of the proposals is the tunnel?
And, I think the main point is that the 912 anti-roads gang all says that DOT is unable of doing anything right. However, I think you will agree, that DOT does most things very well. And is as on time and on budget with any major program as any other public or private buisness or agency.
As for floating bridges, you have to admit that 100 year storms are hard to plan for, which was the case with both the Mercer Island and the Hood Cannal bridge (and the original Tacoma Narrows suffer from problems no one thought about until it happened). Given that there is no viable alternative in those cases, we should be very happy with how good, on the whole, the floating bridges are.
The preferred AWV alternative in the Draft EIS, for both the City of Seattle and WSDOT, is the tunnel – period. Absent some major change – like taxpayers refusing to fund it by passing 912 – that is the situation and will not change.
The AWV/Seawall budget also still includes $500 million to lower Aurora Avenue north of the Battery Street Tunnel in all EIS scenarios except the no-action scenario. This money has nothing to do with AWV safety, and instead is yet another subsidy for Paul Allen’s biotech schemes.
Sorry, my fellow progs, but if voting for the gas tax repeal is the only way to stop this madness, I’m prepared to do so.
Oh, and I drive the Viaduct every day, and will happily continue to do so for as long as I am able.
The AWV/Seawall budget also still includes $500 million to lower Aurora Avenue north of the Battery Street Tunnel in all EIS scenarios except the no-action scenario. This money has nothing to do with AWV safety, and instead is yet another subsidy for Paul Allen’s biotech schemes.
If that’s true, let’s get on this. I, for one, am sick of seeing handouts to Vulcan Ventures.
Only a complete IDIOT would give any credit to the WSDOT for the early opening of the HCB. The people planning and doing the work, work for Kiewit-Gereral Construction. The best thing that the WSDOT can do is just get out of the way.
But why does the WSDOT need $162,000,000 over and above the original budget to complete the HCB maintenance?
And why will the WSDOT be 3 or 4 years late completing the project?
And why does the WSDOT need to build a $100,000,000 graving dock when they have built 5 floating bridges using commercial graving docks. (I know the totally idiotic answer but do you?)
Ah, I see Goldy is “spam filtering” comments he no longer wants to get.
Here’s the link –
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projec.....native.htm
Scroll down and you’ll find the following statement
“North of the Battery Street Tunnel, SR 99 will be lowered with Mercer, Republican, and Harrison Streets connecting over SR 99.
*Costs for this element are not included in the cost range above.”
Please note, where they indicate the figure of $170 of $220 million for this scheme, it is actually a much lower figure than the particular configuration supported by Vulcan – oops – I mean the City of Seattle. WSDOT staffed identified the cost of the Hallivulcan/Nickels version at $400+ million, with another $100-200 million to reconfigure Mercer.
It’s real, all right. Really fucked.
Ah, I see Goldy is “spam filtering” again.
Richard @ 1
“…the record of WSDOT…. And don’t forget Galloping Gertie.
That wasn’t WSDOT, that was the Washington State Department of Highways. Also, I understand the director, at the time, of WSDH, Lacey Murrow, no longer works for the state. And the WSDH engineer who designed the bridge, Clark Eldridge, no longer works for the state.
JC Bob @ 13
“Ah, I see Goldy is “spam filtering” comments he no longer wants to get.”
Don’t be such an asshole. The spam filter is a standard WordPress plug-in that is primarily designed to filter p0r_n-bots and gam_b1ing_bots that dump on blog comment threads. Posts with certain keywords will be held—Goldy is not targeting specific people.
Comment by JC Bob
Oops–ignore the “Comment by JC Bob” line in my last post.
As long as we are on the subject of Galloping Gertie:
I think the AWV in a tunnel would be much safer if we are attacked by Japanese Battleships.
Five times today I drove my car below the posted limit without running over anything. This must mean that I am a careful driver by Goldys definitian.
Chuck @ 18
“Five times today I drove my car below the posted limit without running over anything. This must mean that I am a careful driver by Goldys definitian.”
Hmmm. . . the way you put it, it just sounds like you typically “run over” things. :)
dj @ 15
Gee, it must have been because I didn’t use any foul language.
jdb; nice try on the 100 year storms…no way, and you have no proof. I was outside the day of the I 90 disaster, remember they had to retain deck grinding water in the air compartments (duh) and then they left some hatches open, and then it rained and got windy.
Goldy,
You are missing the mark here.
Typically, the WADOT contracts with CONTRACTORS for results, not methods. The contract specifies timelines, material specifications, and results.
The CONTRACTOR makes the decision as to what methods, manpower, and other assets to invest into the specific project.
For instance, if a job needs 4 trucks, and the CONTRACOR
Goldy,
Your kudos may or may not be warranted.
Typically, the state negotiates a contract with CONTRACTORS, that describes the time frame, the material specifications, and the end result expected.
It is up to the CONTRACTOR (usually a private business) to complete the contract under the state mandated terms.
The CONTRACTOR
Ooops, an interuption —
decides whether to assign 4 or 40 people at the project. He may assign 40 to finish the project quickly, to get onto another, or he may only assign 4 to meet the dictates of the contract.
Or he may devise a better way to do something than what was first imagined.
It is usually the CONTRACTOR, not the state that is the ‘HERO’ in this kind of a situation.
Just a thought
righton @ 21,
“nice try on the 100 year storms…no way, and you have no proof. I was outside the day of the I 90 disaster, remember they had to retain deck grinding water in the air compartments (duh) and then they left some hatches open, and then it rained and got windy.”
Not quite. It was a three day Thanksgiving holiday weekend. There were storms on Nov 22 (Thanksgiving), Nov 23, and Nov 24. Yep, some idiot left the pontoon doors opened, but that error was greatly compounded by the fact that they were left open over a stormy holiday.
So is the unscrupulously efficient contractor going to reimburse the little stores, restaurants & gas stations up & down Hood Canal for all the extra supplies they bought for the detoured traffic they’re being callously denied??? Or the drivers that planned their detours today and had just boarded the Mukilteo-Clinton ferry, to get to the Keystone-Port Townsend ferry, when they heard on the radio that the detour was over too soon? And what about the overtime for TV reporters to go stand on highway 101 or at the Port Townsend ferry terminal? Who’s going to reimburse them? It’s another government “taking,” that’s what it is.
I am hoping that the WSDOT keeps on getting projects done on time even after I-912 passes. Maybe they will fix some of their problems. I’m not one of these neocons that just cut taxes and have no solutions to fix the problem. That is why I am supporting independent audits and performance reviews. Together we can get government working for the people again.
Nice to see the Contractor mentioned. They hire and supervise the workers who actually accomplished this feat.
Notice how the comments focus on the Alaska Way Viaduct? The gas tax is all about Seattle even on the progressive blogs who like to claim it is about safety and state-wide unmet needs, but only ever discuss AWV.
Terry J
Hey, watch for Dj to tell you to go read the bill, bunch of baloney how the bill isn’t for viaduct…
And dj; so its no longer a 100 year storm? (that term actually means something, its different than saying “big honking stormy weekend”
And you forgot to mention they made contractor fill pontoons with used water, no doubt any sailor could have seen the folly in that…
No shit! Let’s shut the place down and set up a private organization that handles the roads.
Mr. X @ 9
That is the first I have heard (or at least NOTICED) about the $500 million to help out Paul Allen and Vulcan. No wonder the damned thing is going to be so expensive.
We can’t just waste $1.5 billion ($1 billion extra for tunnel, $500 million to help billionaire developers), just because the other $5.5 billion in the package makes sense. You have to draw the line somewhere. We didn’t have Dino Rossi in there to use the line item veto. The only thing we are left with is I-912. It is too bad to use a sledgehammer, instead of a scalpel, but if the sledgehammer is all you have …
And I can’t justify completely eliminating SR-99 through downtown for nine years for a tunnel, or even seven years for a viaduct replacement. That is an incredible amount of disruption — not only for everyone driving through downtown Seattle, but also for the freight mobility and cruise ship passengers that will be important for Port of Seattle business.
I think we should just shore up the existing viaduct. It will save billions of dollars and avoid almost all of the downtime that any replacement will require.
DJ @ 14
< <“…the record of WSDOT…. And don’t forget Galloping Gertie. That wasn’t WSDOT, that was the Washington State Department of Highways. Also, I understand the director, at the time, of WSDH, Lacey Murrow, no longer works for the state. And the WSDH engineer who designed the bridge, Clark Eldridge, no longer works for the state.>>
Okay, Galloping Gertie was added for sarcasm value :)
More important question — are Lacey Murrow and Clark Eldridge still registered to vote? And if they are, who were their ballots voted for in November 2004 for Governor? (More sarcasm, since I doubt they are still with us after 65 years, but you never know.)
Sorta funny — Lacey Murrow was responsible for building Galloping Gertie, which collapsed. So they named the old Mercer Island floating bridge in his honor. And the WSDOT then sunk this Mercer Island floating bridge in November 1990 through grossly incpmpetent mismanagement of a renovation project.
Richard,
What is the incremental cost of burying the AWV, along with building a seawall? Let’s assume that a seawall must be built, since that’s true. What is the price difference of building a seawall and keeping an above-ground AWV, and burying the AWV?
Thank you for getting the 1940 Tacoma Narrows collapse out of the discussion. I retract my question about defense against the Japanese Imperial Navy.
Heath
7
Sure Richard’s a candidate — but he’s not a SERIOUS candidate. To see Richard’s latest antics click on http://www.pdc.wa.gov/complian.....Report.pdf
12
You’re new here aren’t you Bob? EVERYBODY gets stuck in Goldy’s spam filter. Even Goldy gets stuck in Goldy’s spam filter. The spam filter is like an electronic voting machine — you can’t see inside, you don’t know how it works, it’s completely random and arbitrary, and what goes in isn’t what comes out.
21
You’re new here aren’t you Bob? To answer your question, shit no, the spam filter doesn’t give a flying fuck if you use vulgar language.
See what I mean?
Don’t you just love these trolls? WSDOT does something right and they try to shift credit to the contractor!
Hey trolls, if private contractors are so great how come we haven’t won in Iraq yet?
Can anyone explain why the seawall is a “transportation” project and should be built with gas taxes?
The seawall is a property improvement that should be funded by creating a Local Improvement District and imposing a levy on property owners within the LID.
Combining the seawall with a tunnel may be a sneaky way of shifting the seawall costs from the property owners who should pay for it to motorists who will receive no benefit from it.
Does anybody know how the existing seawall was funded? I’ll bet it wasn’t paid for with gas taxes.
Rabbit, that’s a good question.
Personally, a five-lane seawall sounds great to me, but if the seawall part of it can be paid for in some other way, even greater!
Hey, I had an idea about the spam filter. I bet it knows that some be++ing schemes have incrementally increasing odds, otherwise known as progre55ive be++ing. That’s just my guess as to why so many posts get ‘caught.’
Sure is too bad about Stefan. The poor guy is self-destructing. He can’t tell Dean Logan from a 6-lb. bunny! I hope he doesn’t give himself an aneurysm.
Richard @ 1
The AG has now dismissed your tax wasting complaint about the no on 912 people, which you filed without any evidence or wrongdoing and plenty of evidence that there was none. Shame on you.
If we can’t trust the state DOT to build large projects we’re in a world of hurt because we need many to fix the roads around here and no one I know has offered any reasonable alternative. Look at all the audits and you’ll find that the state DOT has a pretty good track record delivering things large and small – with a few exceptions.
Cut the hype and stick to the facts. $2.0 billion will probably be required for any reasonable fix for the Viaduct. The 912 alernative doesn’t provide anything – even for the blue sky idea you promote.
Thor @ 43
Keep Washington Rolling (the committee opposed to I-912) lied about which organizations belonged to their committee. Their website falsely listed over three dozen organizations and businesses as being on their committee, when this was not true. The details of the deception committed by Keep Washington Rolling are contained in the investigation report compiled by the PDC in response to my complaint.
IF Keep Washington Rolling had been telling the truth, then several public agencies would have been breaking state law by being members of a political committee opposing a ballot measure. I assume that at least SOME of the information contained on the KWR website was correct, so I filed a complaint about this apparent violation of the law.
At the time I filed the complaint, one of the four public agencies (Port of Everett) unequivocally stated that it had nothing at all to do with KWR. The Port of Seattle gave a nuanced answer, which at the time was not an unequivocal denial. I had not yet received any responses from the Port of Tacoma or the Puget Sound Regional Council.
KWR needs to publicly apologize for making such a colossal mistake on their website. At the very minimum, they should post the apology prominently on their website (including the page on which they list their ACTUAL supporters).
Their misrepresentations also cost some taxpayer dollars, since they resulted in a state investigation of an apparently serious violation of the law. KWR should fully reimburse the state for the costs of this investigation.
KWR has already raised at least $133,753.40 from big businesses and special interests, and plans to raise millions more to run an expensive anti I-912 ad campaign. If they want to show good will, and give voters confidence in choosing to retain billions in new taxes, they should at least reimburse the state for the several thousand dollars that their misrepresentations have cost the taxpayers.
Rabbit @ 39 –
Nice comment! Thoughtful and fair.
We need more of that.
Roger Rabbit:
Here’s an interesting idea based upon your post. We fund a AWV tunnel up to the replacement cost of the viaduct, and then fund the rest with a tax on the properties that would benefit from the seawall and the increase view. All of those offices, buisnesses and condos that would suddenly have an open view would share in with the waterfront people in the cost, and Seattle gets a beautiful waterfront. Not a bad idea, eh?
And for those that keep thinking that I-912 has something to do with the viaduct, and that you are striking a blow against Seattle by voting for it, three points: 1) Most of the gas tax goes to projects around the state, the viaduct replacement is not funded by the gas tax; 2) The viaduct will need to be replaced sooner or later; 3) The entire state benefits by improved traffic in Seattle, since it (and Tacoma) are the major ports for goods coming in and out. Finally, 912 has nothing to do with Sound Transit or the Monorail, which are funded outside of DOT.
Govenor Gregoire will not care if you cut your nose off to spite your face. If 912 is just about having a big tantrum (which, based upon what John Carlson has said, is all it is), there are better ways to have a fit. As this thread has shown, DOT is doing a good job, and finishing their projects on time and on budget.
I am still waiting for one truthful, non-emotional arguement in favor of 912. And I want to know why all the whiny wingnuts make tons of excuses for their leaders who are against 912. You would think it would start to sink in that it must be decent public policy if all the GOP leadership is behind it.
Terrorism 101
There is nothing easier to attack and disable than a tunnel, because there is nothing harder to surveil and defend, than a tunnel.
Except for a Mall.
Look at the suicide bombers in Israel. They aren’t exactly going after infrastructure, are they? Blow up in the food court of SouthCenter or Northgate and you will have a far bigger impact than if you blow up the Battery Street or Mt. Baker tunnles.
Roger @39:
DOT: Leaning on shovels.
Contractor: Using shovels.
Reply to 50
My question was about Iraq. Are you suggesting our government employees in Iraq are leaning on their rifles while the “private security contractors” (a.k.a. mercenaries) are doing all the fighting?
Terry J. is a soldier hating communist.
How do you sleep at night?
Terry J?
Terry J:
Why do you hate our troops?
Do you hate Jesus too?
WWJA?