There’s been a lot of talk about transportation “governance reform” in the wake of Prop 1’s failure this past November, and one of the main arguments repeatedly proffered is that a directly elected board of regional commissioners would be more responsive and accountable than, say, Sound Transit’s current makeup of officials appointed by other elected bodies. This is an assumption that has been left mostly unchallenged by editorialists and other members of our media and political elite.
So I thought it might be constructive to test this thesis by comparing the highly publicized recent audit of Sound Transit with its much maligned federated board ($5 million of potential savings out of a $2.5 billion budget), versus that of the Port of Seattle with it’s directly elected commissioners ($100 million wasted, and a criminal investigation.) Um… ouch.
As Seattle Transit Blog points out, “Sound Transit is ‘definitely’ in the ‘good camp’ when it comes to audits”… at least that’s what Evans Anglin, the Accountability Audit manager for the State Auditor’s office told Sound Transit at a Jan 3 presentation:
“I think that you can give yourselves a small pat on the back for doing a good year, and if I may just step outside my boundaries a little bit and just reflect on the fact that I believe your performance audit also came out pretty well, so I think that we’re all aware of maybe a performance audit that came out recently that maybe wasn’t quite so, um, didn’t go quite so well, so I think you can kind of compare and contrast yourselves between those two audits and maybe get a sense of you know, things are going fairly well here from the perspective of the State Auditor’s office. Obviously a large complex organization, there’s always things, but we’re not seeing the kind of systemic problems that perhaps might exist in an organization like this with the magnitude of construction activity that’s going on.”
“Systemic problems”…? Um… like those at the Port of Seattle, with it’s elected commissioners? Anglin goes on to thank Sound Transit for its cooperation:
“Very roughly you might be able to divide the world of the governments we audit into two camps […] this is definitely one of the entities that fall into the good camp. Our audits are always well received, the recommendations that we make are always taken seriously.”
You know, unlike the folks at the Port of Seattle.
Compare and contrast operations at the Port of Seattle and Sound Transit, and there is absolutely no evidence that a directly elected commission is inherently any more accountable than a federated board. Indeed, anecdotally, one might reasonably conclude just the opposite. And yet “accountability” continues to be a rallying cry of the anti-rail schemers who look to governance reform as a means of lopping the head off of Sound Transit, and with it, the pro-rail/pro-transit aspirations of the majority of Seattle voters.
The folks who really need to be held accountable are the so-called civic leaders and media mucky-mucks who relentlessly malign a well-run organization like Sound Transit in pursuit of their narrow-minded, backwards-thinking, roads only agenda.
It’s nice to see some confirmation that the agency is doing a good job. The detractors have one less way to pound on what they’re dogmatically opposed to.
A good outline of major issues here Goldy. It’s hard to imagine the Legislature, in a short 60-day session, coming up with a “governance reform” plan in light of the Port of Seattle debacle.
Timing is everything, and while the Port audit was too late to save Alec Fisken’s job on the commission, it was not too late to help prevent the Legislature from doing something dumb.
That said, major vigilance is still needed, however. The Road Warriors and anti-transit folks will still be beating the bushes to “reform” us, in perhaps other ways, away from rail transit.
All the more reason to get that ST2.1 plan together SOON. Get some public pressure brewing for a revote this November, when its passage would be most likely.
I wonder if Eyman has an initiative for failed audits…
Hey, speaking of our local Dr. Manhattan, Goldy, you have had nothing to say about his latest folly. I thought the original raison d’etre for this blog was to mock the watchman’s legislative abortions. We await your pronouncement with bated breath!
Well, I also would say, Goldy that you wrote a nice piece. I think the legislature is on a slightly different tact than you suggest, or than is suggesting by talking about the mess over at the port.
The region has been in gridlock when it comes to dealing with roads and transit as result of folks on Sound Transit’s board, for instance, being held accountable primarily for their day jobs. A city councilor for instance who serves on the board is elected or not primarily for his/her normal tasks closer to home. The mayor of Seattle, as an example has unequal cache when he participates on a board with members from much smaller cities. Each of the participants may look at things from the more global view but history has shown us that this has not been the norm.
So the idea of electing members of a regional board is interesting in that those folks will be judged primarily for how they direct the regions transportation/roads dollars. This I think would be healthy.
“media mucky-mucks who relentlessly malign a well-run organization like Sound Transit in pursuit of their narrow-minded, backwards-thinking, roads only agenda’
Uhmm, isn’t this the same organization that is going to take twice as long, at twice the price, for half the project promised?
whatever
Good job giving the well meaning ideas of John Stanton and Norm Rice some well deserved scrutiny – which is not happening in the legislature or in the newspapers. (The News Tribune being the exception.)
The legislators promoting the Stanton/Rice “governance” dream seem more interested in reading campaign checks from Stanton than understanding the the facts about what he is relentlessly promoting with his hired guns including attorneys, PR people and lobby goons in loafers.
The push this year appears to have one big main goal: keeping Sound Transit from moving forward in 2008 so that the road gang can make a run in the 2009 session to get control over Sound Transit’s tax authority before voters can bank it on light rail.
It is all about knee-capping Sound Transit this year, period.
All of this could benefit from a huge dose of scrutiny that just hasn’t happened. That scrutiny ought to include the methods of the state’s new super rich in influencing the government for their purposes. It is a stunning fact of life around here that wasn’t a factor 30 years ago, for better or for worse.
Scrutiny can be a good thing: look at the light that has been shed on the Port of Seattle and the seeming lack of accountability and oversight we’ve experienced with that elected board and the “czar” they appointed to run the place. Why would we want the road gang to be able to buy people running transportation?
One lobbiest was bitching a few years ago about the Sound Transit board. His bitch: “you can’t get to them.”
3 “I wonder if Eyman has an initiative for failed audits…”
Dunno about that, but he certainly didn’t miss an opportunity to barge into the public meeting The Port held a few days ago and using it as an oppportunity to stand in front of the TV news cameras hollering like the egomaniacal loon he is.
@7…AF…
Ah, but he was speaking up for the people who came to make comments and who were getting ignored by Port Commissioners and staff with their interminable drooning on and on and on…
Tim has floated the idea of an initiative to end the Port’s authority to tax, an idea apparently getting some traction in Olympia with Sen. Karen Kaiser near set to sponser legislation with the same effect.
Isn’t terminating tax subsidies to the Port an idea Goldy has supported?
When everyone is on the same page, why bring up irrelevent and old issues? The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and politics can and does make strange bedfollows.
Why, I’ll bet there are even some among the HA Happy Hooligans who regard Tim Eyman as a friend! I regard him as someone who represents me better than do my two State Representatives and CERTAINLY better than my good-for-nothing State Senator.
The Piper
The Piper
“Uhmm, isn’t this the same organization that is going to take twice as long, at twice the price, for half the project promised?”
Right Stuff’s made-up figures aside, here’s a good example of the kind of cost-estimating Right Stuff approves of:
Wednesday April 23, 2003
TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) All right, this is the first. I mean, when you talk about 1.7, you’re not suggesting that the rebuilding of Iraq is gonna be done for $1.7 billion?
ANDREW NATSIOS
Well, in terms of the American taxpayers contribution, I do, this is it for the US.
The rest of the rebuilding of Iraq will be done by other countries who have already made pledges, Britain, Germany, Norway, Japan, Canada, and Iraqi oil revenues, eventually in several years, when it’s up and running and there’s a new government that’s been democratically elected, will finish the job with their own revenues. They’re going to get in $20 billion a year in oil revenues.
But the American part of this will be 1.7 billion. We have no plans for any further-on funding for this.
Goldy: Dori Monson and other neanderthal republicans have hammered at Sound Transit over and over for “waste”.
Where were they on the port of seattle? – certainly not with the reformers. I didn’t hear Senor self-appointed Dori going after Mic Dinsmore (the million dollar buy-out boy) and his republican buddies.
The conclusion of the audit is that Sound transit is fairly well run – hmm, you wouldn’t know it from the right wing noise machine that echoed out of the last election.
By the way – I suspended my long-term Sierra club membership after they screwed over rails and roads (I wanted both to solve the lousy mess we are in with both roads and rails).
I was actually on the original Sierra club group that started the walk to save the wilderness (in the winter) – and brought about the creation of the Alpine Lakes wilderness (saw a Cougar between Stevens and Snoqualmie pass at the time).
“I regard (Tim Eyman) as someone who represents me better than do my two State Representatives and CERTAINLY better than my good-for-nothing State Senator.”
Idiots of a feather…
Is it the serial lying which attracts you to Eyman, Piper?
Just wondering.
@8: Maybe, someday, Piper you will actually get to vote for Tim Eyeman – in the meantime, however, he represents the BIAW and anyone who pays him to run an intitiative. that is – until he has the guts to actually run for office.
Tim can actually have some good ideas sometimes – but lying about making money on initiatives doesn’t endear him to me.
Well, I do not see this as just about kicking Sound T in the knee or about stopping another effort on the ballot in 08. Many do feel that it would be much better to go for phase 2 of something AFTER phase one is up and running. Will there be some cut backs? Yes I would expect so.
Maybe TP is just part of the campaign committee to elect Rossi-Eyman governor this year.
Correctnotright,
“Tim can actually have some good ideas sometimes”
You mean like gutting transportation funding (Initiative 695) and then turning around (effectively) wanting to raise our taxes to reduce the excess congestion?
“…but lying about making money on initiatives doesn’t endear him to me.”
Indeed…it takes a “special” class of wingnut to feel that Lyin’ Eyman represents him.
“So the idea of electing members of a regional board is interesting in that those folks will be judged primarily for how they direct the regions transportation/roads dollars.”
ParticleMan, you fell for the scam. “Accountability” is just a marketing term made up by the Republican anti-transit forces behind the regional transportation governance “reform” effort. They don’t want accountability at all – just read their own words. Over and over they talk about this entity making “tough” decisions, and propose SIX YEAR TERMS for elected members.
What are those tough decisions, you ask? Spending transit money on freeways, thwarting the public’s preferences by giving them buses instead of trains, and, yep….raising taxes and setting tolls without a public vote.
“Accountability” is just a buzz word for consumption by the buzzed.
See, the problem is, we peons don’t know what’s good for us. We need a Republican billionaire, a think tank that denies science, and an ex-mayor (who had a terrible transportation record) to tell us we should skip what we want, so they can spoon-feed us what we “need.”
The fact a bunch of anti-government types are proposing an entirely new layer of government should have tipped you off, ParticleMan. If you need more proof of this absurd situation, take a look at the Evergreen Freedom Foundation’s musings on the subject.
@16: Danny
I think you are probably right about that “new government” entity. It is just the way for the folks who torpedoed Light rail to claim to be going after plan B – when we all know that there is no real plan B.
-Many do feel that it would be much better to go for phase 2 of something AFTER phase one is up and running.-
ParticleMan makes the common mistake of believing Sound Transit is all about the first 16 miles of light rail.
http://www.soundtransit.org/x1170.xml
http://www.soundtransit.org/x73.xml
Yeah, let’s sit around and wait some more. Everybody knows traffic can’t get worse, right? http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/traffic/seattle/ And everybody knows every other city building a starter light rail line has had second thoughts about expanding the system, right?
Some folks just can’t give up on bashing Sound Transit. Yes, 8 years ago they had a major problem with the Capitol Hill tunnel. Rather than just plunging ahead (like the monorail would have), they fell back and regrouped. People responsible for the mistakes went away, and a new crew took over, and new project management procedures were put in place. A new light rail construction plan was adopted in November 2001, and work has been proceding on that plan — on time and on budget.
Survey data show the public has a high regard for Sound Transit — the main reason why the road-heads are headstrong to derail another vote this year. They know a transit-only plan, somewhat smaller than last time, 10 years to complete instead of 20, smaller tax bite, etc, they know such a program will pass this November.
Someone says lets wait until ST has light rail operating, then we can consider extending it — yeah, let’s just add two years’ worth of inflation to the ultimate cost. What’s another $300m-$400m?
Sigh.
Good news. You guys don’t have to worry about trains and buses and bike trails any more. As usual, Tim Eyman is actually going to fix the fucking problem.
http://permanent-offense.org/
This common sense initiative strips away all the bullshit and forces gummint to actually do something to fix the fucking traffic problem.
I’m a big fan of HOT lanes. For those of us whose time is more valuable… we can get where we need to be when we need to be there. You fucking losers can sit in traffic and envy us as we drive by.
Let’s just put the Port of Seattle out of its misery, break up the pieces, and assign its functions to other governments:
The port police to King County Sheriff’s Department
Airport management to King County
Port management to … well, I don’t know — but the Mickey Mouse Club could do a better job than the current crowd
And get rid of the port tax.
@13…CnR…
I don’t get to vote for or against Frank Chopp yet he’s got a lot of power over my life.
Tim Eyman is the de facto Speaker of the Fourth Branch of Government under the Washington Constitution: the people.
He articulates a POV attractive to many, many, many Washingtonians. Some would argue, a majority of them given how they support his initiatives.
In 1914, the citizens of Washington decided that they wanted a share of the legislative power so they enshrined the initiative and referendum process into the State Constitution together with a clear statement that the people, not the government, are sovereign.
Any citizen is free to propose an initiative, so this shouldn’t be about Tim Eyman. That he’s so successful at it means what? At the end of the day after an election, he holds no particular power, only an idea he offered to the voters becomes law.
Seems to me that your beef shouldn’t be with Tim Eyman, but with the people of the State of Washington, the ultimate sovereign authority.
The Piper
One reason legislators like the idea of an elected regional transportation authority is that it might provide high paying jobs for them to move on to from the $30-35 thousand, whatever, the legislature pays. Watch, if they approve the regional transportation authority it will have $100,000+ salaries. It leads to outsize pensions for legislators.
Piper Scott,
“[Tim Eyman] articulates a POV attractive to many, many, many Washingtonians. “
You have a point…As a professed lair and thief, that certainly makes Eyman attractive to Washington state Republicans!
“Any citizen is free to propose an initiative, so this shouldn’t be about Tim Eyman.”
Fuck you. Any citizen is also free to “make it about Eyman” if they choose.
“That he’s so successful at it means what?”
It means you are living in a fantasy. Eyman’s record is much weaker than you suggest:
Plenty of failures to go with his successes. He seems to have particular difficulty writing initiatives that fall within the bounds of the Constitution.
Nice militia speak there, Pipehead. Why don’t we take a look at those Eyman initiatives. This city rejects them 3-1. The region rejects them 2-1. Yet Pipedream needs the voters of Moses Lake to make his “sovereign authority” thing work.
Last time I checked, conservatives supported local control – not larger populations imposing their will on smaller contiguous populations.
For example, I-776 was rejected by 57% of the people who actually paid the taxes Timmy (Tiiimmyyy!) was griping about. The RTA subarea which was actually PAYING for the light rail project (776 was supposed to be Timmy’s “referendum on light rail”) rejected the initiative 70-30. The clowns in Moses Lake who weren’t paying those taxes (and weren’t affected by anything Sound Transit did) voted for I-776. That is Piper Scott’s notion of sovereignty.
What a moron.
“Good news. You guys don’t have to worry about trains and buses and bike trails any more. As usual, Tim Eyman is actually going to fix the fucking problem.”
By synching traffic lights? MTR, you are a fucking stupid racist inbred…so it makes sense you would call this a “fix.” I just hope you don’t travel east-west when Timmy’s north-south roads are all lined up in perfect harmony. Just a small detail.
As for the HOV lane idiocy: who cares about off-peak hours. Traffic isn’t that bad, anyways. I know none of you cave dwellers emerge from under your rocks during the time 80% of the region goes out to earn a living. Another non-solution to a non-problem. Right up MTR’s (Appalachian) alley.
The MarvinsRoom
@23…Darryl…
We’re you born with a hard on, or do you simply work at being a PITA?
The wisdom and political nature of SCOW aside, Eyman’s track record is exceptional. With the PEOPLE, Darryl, the people – you remember them, don’t you?
@24…Me…
How the Hell did that happen? I wasn’t finished writing and BOOM! it ends up getting posted…
Let me finish…
The wisdom and political nature of SCOW aside, Eyman’s track record is exceptional. With the PEOPLE, Darryl, the people – you remember them, don’t you? THE SOVEREIGN PEOPLE – Tim Eyman is batting over 57%!
And with those same people, SCOW efforts to dump his initiatives are regarded as the vested interests seeking to thwart the will of the people.
The more SCOW disses Tim, the more popular he becomes.
I can’t tell if you loath him because he floats initiatives and you are opposed to initiatives, or that he floats initiatives that simply piss you off.
Which is it?
If some Looney Tunes Lefty was doing the same thing from your POV, would your seething indignation still be there? Or would you be conveniently silent?
I can’t figure this out…which are you? Anti-democratic and afraid of popular sovereignty? Or, like Rabbit, just another partisan hack?
As Rooster Cogburn asked Lucky Ned Pepper, “Which’ll it be?”
The Piper
@1 Opposing a project that would carry a tiny fraction of the region’s commuters at incredible expense isn’t “dogmatic,” it’s practical. The reason light rail boosters want to inflict a sales tax increase on the populace is because if light rail had to be supported by those who use it, it would cost $25 to $30 a ride. That, by the way, is probably a rough approximation of what it costs to drive a car to work, after you figure in the cost of the car, fuel, insurance, fuel taxes, and other taxes and expenses. The difference between motorists and light rail boosters is the latter want someone else to pay for their transportation.
Let’s face it, transportation is expensive, and always has been. What’s different about light rail is not cost per se, but the attempt by supporters to shift the costs of transportation from the group that uses it to people who don’t. From the beginning of American history, our people have paid for their own ox carts, mules, horses, motorcars, railroad and airplane tickets, etc. This is truly different; it is a group of riders demanding to be subsidized by non-riders.
@23…Darryl…
“Any citizen is also free to “make it about Eyman” if they choose.”
Two things: (1) Just because someone makes it about Tim Eyman doesn’t make it factually so, and (2) singular noun followed by a plural pronoun? Good thing that PhD ain’t in English.
Interesting…Tim Eyman seems to know where to go to get a handle on issues on the cusp of public demand for action.
Were you at the Port of Seattle Commissioners’ meeting the other night? Have you been ahead of the curve on eliminating tax subsidies for the port? Getting out there and organizing an initiative drive? Getting publicity? Getting awareness?
Hmmmm…could it be that so many who oppose Tim are simply…jealous?
Without his innate political skills, self-confidence, ability to read the tea leaves, and Pheonix-like rising from the ashes to fight again…Wouldn’t you love to be like that instead of stuck in sum academic ivory tower shackled by a stack of undergrad term papers to grade? Get out there and lead a great cause or crusade?
Maybe you, Doc Darryl, the HA Happy HooliHuskey could be the left’s answer to Tim Eyman!
Sound like a plan?
No charge for the career advice.
The Piper
Nevertheless, I would be willing to pay some taxes for light rail if it were built at a reasonable cost (no $500 million-a-mile tunnels), was reasonably designed (e.g., adequate parking at suburban stations), users shouldered a significant share of the costs, and supporters gave us honest financial numbers.
(And don’t tell me Prop. 1 supporters were honest, because they weren’t. I’m still waiting for an explanation of how taxing 1,000,000 households $120 a year can produce $28 billion of revenue in 20 years (or, for that matter, in 200 years.)
@27…RR…
What did Karl Marx say?
““From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need.”
Light rail: the ultimate Marxist realization.
The Piper
@28 “Have you been ahead of the curve on eliminating tax subsidies for the port?”
Yeah, as a matter of fact, I have.
8 Well, Piper, being as Timmie resides outside of the port’s service area (which is King County) it’s really none of his business. Not to say that the rest of us who do live here and pay our taxes and (in the case of many of us) use the port’s facilites and services shouldn’t be making our concerns known, but i’ll betcha we can do that pretty well without Timmie’s help.
Just like the good people of Yakima’s opportunity to interact with their city council wasn’t helped by his “visit” a few weeks back.
Tim ought to go scream at his own neighbors and work to reform the Port of Mukilteo, and stay the hell out of Seattle. He doesn’t belong here.
@24 Darryl posted Eyman’s track record @23. Those are objective facts. Your response is, “Eyman’s track record is exceptional.” That’s your opinion, and who needs your opinion? Most people can read #23 and make up their own minds without need of you telling them what to think.
@30 No, corporate welfare is the ultimate Marxist realization, except it stands Marxism on its head: From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his greed.
@28 I take it you like Eyman’s transportation initiative. Before you vote for it, I’d like to ask you (and him) where he’s going to get the $50 million a year (or whatever it is) to pay for it. Since Timmie doesn’t want to raise taxes, he’ll have to get the money by cutting spending on something else. Highway safety? Foster homes for abused kids? Release some inmates from state prisons? Tell me where the money will come from, Piper.
The Port of Seattle is the only REPUBLICAN controlled county level local government entity in the Puget Sound area. No wonder they are taxing the poor and middle class ($80 million property tax levy next year), giving the money to the shipping interests and big businesses who support them, and stealing $100 million or more of the money to boot.
We need to ABOLISH the Port of Seattle board, and merge all aspects of the Port of Seattle into King County government. Let the King County Executive and King County Council make the decisions. Allow the $80 million property tax levy to be spent for general county purposes, and we will have human services improved considerably in the county.
As for an “elected” transit authority, simply give that power to the county council members of King, Pierce and Snohomish counties sitting as a whole. Give each council member a weighted vote, depending upon the number of people living in their district who reside within the borders of the Sound Transit district.
If you elect a transit authority to deal solely with transit, it will be taken over by the special interests, just like the Port of Seattle has been. The only way is to place transit under the general purpose county council members.
Piper Scott @ 28
I have definitely been ahead of the curve in advocating elimination of the property tax subsidies for the Port of Seattle:
THIS IS A KING COUNTY-WIDE ELECTION!
IT’S YOUR PORT! IT’S OUR FUTURE!
Three very important issues are facing our Port:
1) Should our Port reduce its $35.4 Million King County Property Tax Levy? Absolutely! The Port of Seattle receives the largest taxpayer subsidy among North American ports. However, our Port has run surpluses of $63.9 to $82.0 million the last three years. Our Port doesn’t need this taxpayer giveaway!
RICHARD POPE proposes to ELIMINATE this unnecessary levy and make our Port financially accountable.
… (voter pamphlet for September 14, 1999 primary election)
http://www.metrokc.gov/electio.....tm#pse2Pop
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?
@35…RR…
How about a bounty on rabbit skins?
Or this:
“To provide funding for these policies, ReduceCongestion.org DOES NOT RAISE TAXES, INCREASE FEES, OR IMPOSE TOLLS OR OTHER CHARGES; it instead dedicates a portion of existing vehicle-related revenue to a new dedicated account called the “Reduce Traffic Congestion Account” whose revenues and expenditures will be monitored and reported regularly to the public by the State Auditor.
* ReduceCongestion.org dedicates 15% of revenues generated from the state sales and use tax on new and used vehicle purchases (approximately $128 million per year) and deposits them in the “Reduce Traffic Congestion Account”;
* ReduceCongestion.org requires that revenues generated from fines and penalties from red light cameras must be deposited in the “Reduce Traffic Congestion Account.”
* Current law requires that a percentage of the cost of any public works project go toward the purchase of art –ReduceCongestion.org requires that percentage is instead dedicated to the “Reduce Traffic Congestion Account” if it’s a transportation-related public works project; and
* ReduceCongestion.org DOES NOT create or impose tolls, but if tolls are imposed then those revenues are dedicated and deposited in the “Reduce Traffic Congestion Account”.
http://www.permanent-offense.org/ and http://permanent-offense.org/
TAX RELIEF EARNED OVER THE YEARS (through 2007)
Over $9.1 billion in tax savings so far.
Just think…over $9 billion that Washington taxpayers got to spend as they saw fit, rather than the some bureaucrat wanted it spent.
Keeping the people’s money in the people’s pockets…what a novel idea!!!
The Piper
@37…RP…
Unlike the HA Happy Hooligans and you, I make no claim to perfection and infallability; on this issue, I’m a recent convert!
The Piper
@35…RR…
The “1% for Art” requirement for projects ought to generate a ton of money off a new 520 bridge alone. From Gov. Gregoire’s press conference announcing a 520 plan:
“The new bridge will cost approximately $4 billion to complete. Half of the funding to pay for the new bridge will come from existing state and federal sources, while another half of the funding will be paid by bridge users through tolling.”
http://www.governor.wa.gov/new.....newsType=1
Take the 1% – you do the math and tell us all how much that is – and apply it to the congestion issue. Make a difference, wouldn’t it?
And for those who contend the 1% should stay for art – interesting the HA Happy Hooligans seem bereft of any esthetic sense – consider what Danny Westneat recently wrote about the how not just the Port of Seattle, but all of county and state government pork-barrel waste money on so-called art, much of which cannot even be seen by the public because it’s either too far away or not visible from anywhere:
http://archives.seattletimes.n.....y=westneat
Sounds pretty good to me!
The Piper
@36 “Allow the $80 million property tax levy to be spent for general county purposes, and we will have human services improved considerably in the county.”
Hell no, eliminate the port tax! It’s clear from the fact they found an extra $100 million to waste that our $80 million of port taxes are superfluous and can be returned to the taxpayers. That $100 a year would pay for my out-of-pocket medications. I need it more than the county does.
@35 “How about a bounty on rabbit skins?”
Very cute, but how does adding a new bounty program RAISE money? It would COST money.
@38 That’s what I’m talking about — Eyman’s initiative would divert $128 million of vehicle-related sales tax revenues from the General Fund to so-called “congestion relief” … so the question is, how do you replace that revenue? You have two choices, raise other taxes, or cut spending. He doesn’t tell us what spending he would cut. That’s why his initiative is smoke and mirrors. You can’t spend $128 million on a new program without costing anybody anything.
Eyman doesn’t want to publicly say, for example, that one way to divert $128 million from the General Fund to “congestion relief” is by releasing 5,200 murderers, robbers, rapists, and child molesters from prison.
Another way is by laying off 1,600 state troopers.
Or, you could kick 6,300 elderly people out of nursing homes and make them live on the streets.
So c’mon, piper, if you’re gonna shill for Eyman’s $128 million spending program tell us where he’s gonna cut spending to free up that vehicle sales tax money?
Sorry to be the scream in the echo chamber here, but I have to say anyone can get a great performance audit if you lower the criteria for success far enough.
Is there a Sound Transit light rail line due to open at Northgate in 2009? I mention this because it was promised to the voters during the initial vote for light rail. How about Capitol Hill, any station there? No UW yet, either?
Want something a little more current? How long was the Sound Transit owned Transit tunnel closed during the peak of the Christmas holidays? Wasn’t it closed due to safety concerns arising from “a computer glitch”?
Other than that, and the two train crashes in the beacon hill station that killed a worker, Sound Transit is doing just peachy. They might even qualify for a Presidential medal of freedom.
Hillary Dies From Heart Attack
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....kyZ81JkLKo
“Two things: (1) Just because someone makes it about Tim Eyman doesn’t make it factually so”
Yes…conversely, just because you claim it’s not…maybe it largely is!
“singular noun followed by a plural pronoun? Good thing that PhD ain’t in English.”
Why? Were you under the delusion that people with PhDs in English never make grammatical error? More stupid-ass wingnut B&W logic (and from someone who is in little position to lecture about grammar and spelling!).
“Interesting…Tim Eyman seems to know where to go to get a handle on issues on the cusp of public demand for action.”
Yep…he used to go into the pockets of the people for his pickings. Now he goes to a gullible millionaire….
“Were you at the Port of Seattle Commissioners’ meeting the other night?”
WHY THE FUCK WOULD I BE THERE???? Have you ever read anything by me about the P.O.S.?????
“Have you been ahead of the curve on eliminating tax subsidies for the port?”
Where the hell do you get the delusional idea that this is something I am interested in???? Do you get really, really stoned and hallucinate this shit?
“Getting out there and organizing an initiative drive?”
What the fuck?? Have I ever expressed interest in organizing, sponsoring, or promoting an initiative????? Where do you get this bullshit?
“Getting publicity? Getting awareness?”
“Getting awareness”…now there is something that could really benefit you!
“Hmmmm…could it be that so many who oppose Tim are simply…jealous?”
Piper…that may be your world, but I thought that kind of jealousy was something restricted to 11th grade and below.
“Without his innate political skills, self-confidence, ability to read the tea leaves, and Pheonix-like rising from the ashes to fight again…”
You mean like….”He who lies and runs away, lives to lie another day”?
“Wouldn’t you love to be like that instead of stuck in sum academic ivory tower shackled by a stack of undergrad term papers to grade?”
Please tell me you were stoned out of your gourd when you wrote that.
“Get out there and lead a great cause or crusade?”
Let’s see…do I want to be like Lyin’ Eyman…taking money from saps to write shitty laws (that are usually tossed by the Supreme Court), stealing from donors, wearing Halloween’s costumes at inappropriate times for attention, fucking up traffic only to have to come back eight years later trying to “fix” the mess? Naaaa… Pass.
“Maybe you, Doc Darryl, the HA Happy HooliHuskey could be the left’s answer to Tim Eyman!”
And maybe you, Piper Scott, can be the Wingding World’s answer to Timothy Leary!
“Sound like a plan?”
Sounds like someone needs to sober up!
“No charge for the career advice.”
And worth every penny paid for it!
Sir Edmund Hillary has died at age 88. He was an extraordinary man, who devoted his life after Everest to setting up schools and health clinics in Nepal’s poor rural regions, and I once had the great privilege of meeting him, speaking with him briefly, and obtaining his autograph. He liked my fur coat.
Roger @ 42
“Very cute, but how does adding a new bounty program RAISE money? It would COST money.”
This is the problem with Wingnuts. They seriously believe that spending money generates revenue—so long as no revenue is generated to produce the money they spend.
Okay, I made up that last sentence. But the rest is true.
@8 “Ah, but he was speaking up for the people who came to make comments”
Really? Who elected him to speak for others? How many of the people there asked Timmie to represent them before the commissioners? Eyman is just a citizen like the rest of us, and speaks for himself.
Piper Scott, can be the Wingding World’s answer to Timothy Leary!
That’s pretty good Darryl! I’m getting a nice chuckle out of that one.
@19 “For those of us whose time is more valuable…”
Your time must be worth less than $50 a year because so far you’ve been unable to pay a two-year-old gambling debt of $100.
I could see the usefulness of pay lanes, though — you could leverage it for a raise: “Boss, if you want me to get to work on time, you’ll have to pay me more so I can use the HOT lanes.”
Of course, it doesn’t work that way. Employers expect taxpayers to educate and train their workers (and, in some cases, pay for road and rail improvements and maybe even use state bonding authority to finance their plants and stores). They expect employees to keep their professional education and certifications up to date at their own expense. They pass the higher cost of living on to customers in the form of price increases, but not to their workers in COLAs. Nowadays, they also expect employees to pay for their own retirement and health care. And, of course, employees have always had to pay for their commuting themselves (while execs flit about the company on company jets), and sometimes they even require employees to furnish a car for use on the job and then reimburse their mileage at less than cost (or not at all).
Well, I’ve devised a sure-fire way to deal with commuting headaches, cubicle fever, ungrateful bosses, and unrewarding jobs: QUIT!
That’s right, I DON’T WORK! No more traffic hassles, no more worrying about whether I’ll get yelled at for being 5 minutes late because of slow traffic, no more arguing with cheapskate accounting assistants who want to lowball my travel reimbursements, no more waiting for cost-of-living raises that never come! And, above all, no more paying taxes at WORKER RATES!!!
Congress doesn’t want me to work. That’s why they tax wages 3 times as much as they tax dividends and capital gains. They want me to sit on my fat rabbit ass in front of a home computer screen flipping stocks all day. So that’s what I do. Now, the only commuting I do is from the computer chair to the refrigerator. Screw work! Work is un-American. That’s why they tax the shit out of it.
Next Monday, call in and tell your boss that working for him is unpatriotic, so he can take that job and shove it because you’re not coming in anymore.
@50 “And maybe you, Piper Scott, can be the Wingding World’s answer to Timothy Leary!”
He already is, and has been for some time.
@52 That’s not all. They believe if they cut taxes to zero the amount of revenue raised will be infinite.
So I thought it might be constructive to test this thesis by comparing the highly publicized recent audit of Sound Transit with its much maligned federated board ($5 million of potential savings out of a $2.5 billion budget), versus that of the Port of Seattle with it’s directly elected commissioners ($100 million wasted, and a criminal investigation.) Um… ouch.
I think you misunderstand what an audit does and does not tell you.It tells you whether or not, given that you are going to spend money, you have spent that money appropriately, with respect to normal accounting an management practices. It does NOT tell you if what you are doing is worth the doing at all.
The concern with Sound Transit was always whether or not you got value, relative to other competing transportation modes. If instead of LINK, Sound Transit were building a stagecoach line, they would have gotten a good audit result as long as they used appropriate accounting and management practices to build it, notwithstanding the goal itself would provide poor value for the money.
Audits are about process…not the true worth of the project.
@60 You are confusing a performance audit with a financial audit. They are not the same.
@55…YouLaughingstockBaboon…
Still running from the question, coward and liar?
Who was President when the USS Cole was bombed?
You love to play smashmouth trash-talker, but when you get caught in the big lie you hide like a whiney kid, which I take you to be.
Desperately uncleaver, without the ability to gracefully get yourself out from under the rock that you covers you, completely devoid of genuine rhetorical skill, and an ass.
How’s all this workin’ out for you?
The Piper
@42…RR…
If the state pays $2/skin, then turns around and sells them to the Chinese for $4/skin, it will make money.
Let’s just say that no matter how you look at it, a bounty program on rabbit pelts sounds like a winner.
http://rabbithuntingonline.com/index.htm
How would you suggest skinning and field dressing the take?
The Piper
the amount promised for light rail is over what was promised to voters by a factor of 2-4. Prior to Prop. 1, the Seattle Times finally reported the total cost over-run number for light rail; it was about a $2 billion cost overrun. About 100% if not more. Plus they are ten years late and it seems it is not at all sure they can even get to to UW as promised.
Could be wrong, because ST certainly doesn’t put out these figures. Do they?
This overrun was due to about a $1 billion overrun back about 7 years ago for getting under the Ship Canal. That has to be financed. ST has never “gotten rid of” this overrun the way they could get rid of the staffers who caused it. So no matter how much they’ve “matured as an agency” or “leanred from their mistakes” or not been overbudget since changing the cost estimate given to voters…..
they’re spending way more than what voters were told. And they keep saying in effect that the’re not.
When they got sued, they got the Supreme Court to rule that Resolution 75 meant that they DIDN’T have to deliver what they told voters they would deliver. They didn’t win because they showed there WERE delivering what they told voters they would deliver. Just the opposite.
The additional costs that the voters never approved are still there.
It does not matter whether or not you like light rail or BRT or cars or not — whether you are Kemper Freeman or Al Gore — every one of us should be for agencies that tell the truth and against agencies that hide it. We own these agencies. They shouldn’t lie to us.
If a government agency tells the voters it will cost X, then delivers the project at 2X, and never comes out and says so, then it and its supporters are bald faced shameless liars.
They call any detractors names, they circle the wagons around, they blow a lot of smoke and in the end they destroy trust in any governmental project, especially mega transit projects. Then they get surprised when they go into an election and the press doesn’t trust them. When the media respects their detractors more than them. Or when the people don’t trust them — they get all surprised that the voters distrust all mega projects now.
And their plan to get over this problem is to continue the lying and cheerleading and smokescreen. And to keep posting posts trumpeting how great they are. And covering up their lies.
You just keep those ridiculous conspiracy theories coming, yourpantsareonfire. Someday, maybe you will let go of this decades-long obsession of yours.
busdrivermike @ 48, I don’t know if you’re lying, or just plain stupid, but I can’t find a single reference for your dumb (and highly repetitive) claim that Northgate was ever promised at all in phase 1. But please don’t let facts stand in you’re way. You are a typical light rail opponent, afterall.
And Piper, could you really embarrass yourself anymore? You actially believe Eyman is serious when he claims/jests that synching traffic lights will cure us of congestion? I know you (and your crusty bunny buddy) are a bit slow, and a bit stunted, but you can’t be a total vegetable and still have an Internet connection…can you?
I also get a kick out of the idea of “solving” congestion when there IS NO congestion, by opening up HOV lanes during off-peak hours.
What a joke. Trailer park transportation planning at its best.
Rabbit @ 59: nice job trying to blame the rest of the world for your failures and regrets. That was quite a long string of excuses. Personally, I would just shorten your beautiful and uplifting story, and condense it to this “I gave up on life, and it’s YOUR fault.”
Oh, and also, your life story also cements your status as the stereotypical light rail opponent. Welcome to the world of angry, frustrated, broken white cranky men. HA seems to be a magnet for just about every Pat Buchanen clone in the area.
These whiners really need a new hobby. Or some family. Or friends. Or, a pet for God’s sakes!
On second thought, no animals for MarkTheRedneck. He might torture and eat his pet.
RR @ #28
Yer whack on those commuting #’s. Totally.
A looooooong time ago, I calculated what my commuting costs were. I drive an econobox for a daily driver.
Purchase price (amortized over the expected 150k miles I will own/drive this car)
Sales Tax (amortized again over 150k)
Insurance (totalled and amortized)
Annual license tabs (annualized and amortized)
Maintenance (tuneups, tires, wear items)
Repairs
GASOLINE EVEN @ $3+ per gallon!
Oil changes, etc. (I do my own AND recycle the oil)
In other words: ALL COSTS ASSOCIATED w/ owning/operating MY vehicle (American made Honda Civic).
Less than 20 cents per mile!
DID YOU GET THAT?
For a 20 mile commute that’s $4. $4.00 !!!!!!
The LEFTIST LIE THAT ALL COMMUTING is super-expensive is a LIE!!!
Goldy (if you’re still checking on this thread): Note that Mr. Angling acknowledges speaking outside of his authorized boundaries.
Even “performance” audits are based on expectations embodied in policy, e.g., police departments are to (1) catch the bad guys, (2) otherwise secure the peace, (3) within the confines of constitutional protections. Where “transportation” is concerned, those expectations/policies are really fluid and changeable over time, with different perceptions and conclusions – for instance – about externalities (the environment, cost distribution).
I know that it’s a lot more fun to make this into some sort of morality play, with ST wearing the white hat, Sen. Horn in black. But that is yesterday’s argument. Transit won that morality play, already, based on those changeable conditions, referenced above.
Although the on-line conversations would lead you to believe that the restructuring conversation is all about ST, the goal of some of us is to get more mobility for people and goods faster, using a systems approach with performance expectations rather than turf-intensive mode and project slug-fests. The preferred vehicle is PSRC, beefing up their authority. No new agency, no staking the heart of ST.
If UPS ran package delivery the way we run transportation, your Christmas packages for ’06 would still be sitting in a warehouse in Alameda.
Sorry, “Anglin”, not “Angling”.
@64:
Hey Pooper, how’s the hunt for Osama going? What? That smirking ape we call ‘President’ hasn’t caught him yet? Doesn’t know where he is, doesn’t care? “Honestly, I just don’t think about it that much.”
I’ll just bet you were one of the biggest critics (remember all the ‘wag the dog’ charges?) when Clinton dropped those bombs in response to the embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. You do remember that, don’t you? Or is it all lost in a distant fog of single malt?
#67
mr magoo says:
“busdrivermike @ 48, I don’t know if you’re lying, or just plain stupid, but I can’t find a single reference for your dumb (and highly repetitive) claim that Northgate was ever promised at all in phase 1. But please don’t let facts stand in you’re way. You are a typical light rail opponent, afterall. ”
So, on your planet, where did Sound Transit promise to go to, and where did they stop building at?
I bet it is a lot closer to Northgate, than to the Transit Tunnel. Am I wrong, or didn’t Sound Transit start the process of condemning a large piece of property in the Roosevelt neighborhood, where the QFC is, for their ghost station? I believe the year was 1998.
Seems weird they were threatening imminent domain, and using tax dollars to do it, if they weren’t planning on doing it. I guess I must be lying or stupid.
But, maybe I am not the stupid one. Maybe I am the one who can use “google”.
@72…Tlazolteotl…
You tell me and we’ll both know…
As for Mr. Bill? Lobbing a few cruise missles into the ‘Stan was more, IMHO, a PR ploy on his part than it was results focused. Much sound and fury signifying nothing.
Instead of cutting to the chase and clearly articulating a policy of what, how and no-holds-barred, in typically Clintonian fashion, his people parsed and bickered and wheedled and argued and memoed each other with mind-numbing frequency.
Janet Reno got all hung up on ObL’s Miranda rights, figuratively speaking.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....b21_2.html
While all this was going on, the wall between church and state wasn’t the only one then under mad-dash construction. In one of the most inexplicable national security policy decisions ever, Jaime Gorelick, then Deputy Attorney General in the Clinton Justice Dpartment, directed, for PR purposes, a wall of separation of CIA and FBI communication be erected well above what the law required, hence the right hand was politically forbidden from not only knowing what the left hand was doing, but also from inquiring about its activities!
http://www.opinionjournal.com/.....=110004956
So as is par for the course just about everywhere you wish to go, Clintonian hands aren’t all that unclean.
The Piper
Yo fierypants @ 66: “that Resolution 75 meant that they DIDN’T have to deliver what they told voters they would deliver”
Take that interpretation of Resolution 75 and shove it up your ass sideways. If you actually could read, which I doubt, you’d see the agency complied in all respects with that policy. The details are here: soundtransit.org. Have someone read them to you . . . . .
@72…Tlazolteotl…
As to Dubya thinking on it?
I like what Jessica Lange, as Mary McGregor, said in the film, Rob Roy, “I will think of you dead, and then I will think of you no more.”
Since you seem Hell-bent for leather to head ObL off at the pass in order to, in Rooster Cogburn’s words to Lucky Ned Pepper, “I mean to kill you in one minute, Ned. Or see you hanged in Fort Smith at Judge Parker’s convenience. Which’ll it be?”…may I put you down as a volunteer to lead point on the expedition of several thousand Airborne, Ranger, Special Forces troops and CIA para-military operatives necessary to invade Pakistan in order to go kill one man?
I’ll bet you’d look bitchin’ in digital camo slingin’ an XM110 semi-automatic sniper system rifle. Please do send us all a pic in your battle finery.
Or…tell me your bright idea on how to capture him.
The Piper
Once again, defending the indefensible. Since goldy thinks that direct representation is a bad idea, maybe he thinks Bush should just declare martial law, cancel the elections, and rule as he sees fit? I am sure Bush can come up with a few government auditors who would say everything he has done is just peachy.
Oh wait, goldy only thinks direct representation is a bad idea when he AGREES with the goals of the power elite in question.
It must be wonderful to have such flexible virtues. So simple and righteous.
So, Piper…
Now you are in favor of keeping Osama bin Laden alive because he is “just one man?
I’m glad you have finally come up to speed with Bush’s policy goals. Two questions though…
How many horrific terrorist attacks on American soil does it take for the Republicans to go after this “one man”?
Why do you hate America?
fierypants @ 66: “the amount promised for light rail is over what was promised to voters by a factor of 2-4.”
Enjoy living with your head shoved deep into your netherregion? I checked out your math, and you could not be more wrong. Gonna try backing up what you posted? You know, with a link to facts (look the word up meathead – obviously it’s a new one for you)? Go ahead, TRY to prove your position is correct!
I don’t know why I even bother trying . . . . . some people are just addicted to bassackwards thinking.
ColdClear: Unfortuantely, like too many leftist-communists you lead with an insult rather than resorting to fact.
Fact: Mr. Pants is correct. On every count.
ST promised 21 miles of rail by 2006. Delivered: NONE!
ST promised $2.3 billion total cost. They’re up to nearly $7 billion and have delivered: NOTHING! (Costs will continue to soar as they continue to SUCK the lifeblood out of every taxpayer in the region, too. So, even the $7 billion will easily DOUBLE!!)
Mr. “Un”-clear, you really should apologize.
http://truthabouttraffic.org/
A new handle doesn’t help your argument, cmichlick/fierypants. I said FACTS don’t support the garbage you are posting, and now your wild claims about $7 billion (or is it $14 billion – you keep changing your story) are even more ludicrous.
Oh, and the reference to “truthabouttraffic.org” is really cute. That’s a new site just registered by a Spokane fundie. Here’s a bit about him, from his website:
“Doug Simpson is a political strategist and campaign consultant living in Washington State. He is sole-proprietor of the Capitol Project, a political consulting firm he started in 1992 for the purpose of serving Christian conservative causes. Since establishing the Capitol Project, Simpson has facilitated over one-hundred election campaigns with a win/loss ratio of over 85 percent. Simpson will only work for solid pro-life candidates and those with a fundamental historical understanding of the basis and authority of civil government.”
Check out WHOIS, that’ll lead right from “truthabouttraffic” to Mr. Simpson.
So, smartass cmichlick/fierypants/whatever, how about trying to back up your “facts” with a source that has some credibility – like, oh, give us a link or two to the website of a recently-audited agency that PASSED THE AUDIT.
There now, I didn’t think you would.
Troll elsewhere, asswipe.
Busdrivermike actually makes Goldy’s point. He doesn’t even know why an elected board is a good idea – he clearly has no concept for HOW an elected board will be “more accountable.”
Anti-rail nuts reflexibly believe a new board make-up will achieve their goals, since they can’t get what they want (which is all over the map) under the current paradigm.
When the Port’s projects (terminal expansion, 3rd runway) went waaayyy over budget, and took another 10 years to complete, did these perma-complainers call for an appointed Port Commission? Did us taxpayers get “accountability” out of the elected board?
No, we got the opposite.
Since very few voters pay attention to the “down ballot” races (and never will) those who “demand accountability” tossed the two best reformers off the Port Commission in the last two election cycles: Alec Fisken and Lawrence Malloy. They were both replaced by insider lobbyist hacks, fueled by big money.
But, of course, busdrivermike could care less whether Republican billionaire John Stanton or hard-right Republican millionaire Kemper Freeman purchased a couple seats on a new Regional Transportation Commission.
Like Roger Rabbit, busdrivermike is one of those clueless populists, who – whether he likes it, or not – has a lot more in common with trogldytes like “The Piper” than any sane progressive around here.
They serve as useful tools for the right wing, mindlessly wandering down these faux populist paths, bitching about the status quo, and never proposing anything realistic or viable themselves.
Unless you think diesel Buses Stuck In Traffic (BRT) and bigger freeways are a viable long-term solution, both for personal mobility, and for the environment.
@77 & 78…BDM…
Sigh! What am I to do???
On the one hand, we’re in accord in favor of direct representation (though your rhetoric is a tad strident), while on the other you missed the point entirely!
Here’s the deal: So many fixate on ObL as if he’s the only target of worth with victory defined as his capture or death.
While either would be nice (I wouldn’t have any difficulty pulling the trigger on him, would you), the problem wouldn’t go away since there are scores, if not hundreds standing in the wings to take his place.
Making him the exclusive target of our efforts to the exclusion of so many others only means he then becomes a decoy. And exactly what will it take at present to capture him? And where would that effort take place?
Tell you what…you detail a strategy, how many men it will take, and what you’re willing to do to get the job done, and I’ll listen.
In the meantime…I wait.
The Piper
@82…Bungle…
It’s “troglodyte,” which every “sane progressive” ought to know.
Thank you for your example of hubris in a superiority complex. That your screed is a compendium of cliched thinking isn’t surprising given your propensity to compare apples to oranges.
There’s a big difference between the P of S, corrupt as it is, and an elected regional transportation authority. First, aside from a property tax levy, the Port is like the the Forbidden City was to distant peasents: The mountains are very high and the emperor is a long way away.
For most in King County, the Port is distant, almost abstract, and without relation to their day-to-day lives. Unless you fly in and out of Sea-Tac a lot, what actual interaction do you have with the P of S?
But everyone moves around. Drive, bus, someday after a long series of expenseive and lied about delays, light rail, affects every human being in the area. People do pay attention to this stuff, and some sort of regional agency will get close public scrutiny.
What we have right now is an abomination, and you can ask your “sane progressive” friends in Olympia to verify it. Your knickers are knitted backwards less because of the process and more because you ain’t gettin’ the specific result you want.
As they say in the Marines, “Go the chaplain and get a T.S. chit, but in the meantime shut up!”
Bitching about the evildirtybadnastyhasmoremoneythanyoubutyouwouldlikethatmoneyanyway John Stanton, et al, is only going to get you tossed out of the room without a seat at the table.
The Big Mo is moving in the direction of governance reform, not repeating the same old crap with the same old results.
The tea leaves are pretty obvious…read ’em and weep.
The Piper
“The Big Mo is moving in the direction of governance reform, not repeating the same old crap with the same old results. The tea leaves are pretty obvious…read ‘em and weep.”
Yeah, The Piper, I’m thinkin’ this is a good time for a right wing think tank and a gaggle of Republican dinosaurs and has-beens to get their way, given the huge Republican majorities in Olympia, and the big national Republican wave on its way this November. You make a real strong argument there.
“So, on your planet, where did Sound Transit promise to go to, and where did they stop building at?”
busdrivermike, catch a clue.
The Sound Move Plan, passed in ’96, called out three segments. Scroll downt to the bottom for the U District to Northgate language:
———————————–
“The first segment will be a line south between downtown Seattle and the airport serving the Rainier Valley area. That part of the system will be built primarily on aerial structures and on the surface through southeast Seattle. The south light-rail line will include connections at the Boeing Access Road station to regional express buses and commuter rail. Between Boeing Access Road and SeaTac, the RTA will evaluate an alignment using State-Route 99 and an alternative route using Interurban Avenue to Southcenter.
The second segment will be built between downtown Seattle and the University District via a tunnel under First Hill, Capitol Hill and the Ship Canal.
The engineering work for the north line will take longer to complete than the south line so construction of the north line will likely not begin until the south line is already under construction.
The third segment of the light-rail line will be between the University District and Northgate, and will be built when construction funds have been identified and guaranteed.”
—————————–
Ok, then. back to busdrivermike:
“I bet it is a lot closer to Northgate, than to the Transit Tunnel. Am I wrong, or didn’t Sound Transit start the process of condemning a large piece of property in the Roosevelt neighborhood, where the QFC is, for their ghost station? I believe the year was 1998.”
Since ST is breaking ground (with no new local taxes) on the 3 mile extension to the UW this year, busdrivermike’s guesstimations are pretty poor, as usual.
“Seems weird they were threatening imminent domain, and using tax dollars to do it, if they weren’t planning on doing it. I guess I must be lying or stupid.”
It’s pretty easy to confuse busdrivermike, but the answer to this extremely challenging question is simple: with each passing year, the dirt needed for stations and construction becomes more expensive. So-called “protective acquisitions” are necessary to defend us taxpayers from greedy land speculators, who do what they can to squeeze every last dime out of properties they know are needed for future transportation projects.
The quicker any agency moves to acquire needed land, the less we pay in the future.
Get it yet, busdrivemike?
Deb @70, OK so you’re just strengthening the PSRC, not creating a new agency. That’s not how SB5803 read at final passage. Where’s the new draft, or is the intent to hold this issue over until after this fall’s elections?
Your UPS comparison is cute, but why did Stanton and Rice have such difficulty responding to the request for specific examples of uncoordinated transportation planning? It may come as a surprise to those not directly involved, but transportation agencies around Puget Sound talk and coordinate and cooperate all the time. Can you cite an example where one agency ran roughshod over the wishes of another?
If you want an example of a major transportation screw-up, I would cite the Legislature’s decision to force a combined vote on RTID and ST in a low-turnout election year. Local and regional transportation authorities have never done anything that lame.
If governance reform doesn’t harm ST, as you say it won’t, then there should have no objection to ST’s going ahead with a transit-only ballot measure this year, one with somewhat shorter rail lines, a 10-year horizon instead of 20, and a smaller tax bite, the Legislature should have no objection to that, correct?
Correction to my @87, first line, last paragraph — “…there should be no…”
Coldclear @ 81…
One more time. I don’t call myself a pseudonym other than my OWN name. There is no “other”…
The originators of the info @ the referred site may be linked here: http://truthabouttraffic.org/about-us.html
And, ST flunked their first BIG Audit: THE court case where the (corrupt) judge said they were “allowed” to go hella over budget, and hella over time. That’s a MAJOR boner.
Messr Blingo…
Generalizing conservatives as “anti-rail” is counterintuitive. I am, in fact, pro-rail. Just not for COMMUTING in any area that is too geologically unstable, too topographically diverse, too population-thin, e.g. Puget Sound.
Trains are wonderful tools for moving products over great distances. They are horrible in the 21st century for distant travel (take an Amtrak trip more than a thousand miles as I have, you’ll see) or immediate travel in undensified areas. For the reasons noted above, the Puget Sound area will NEVER densify to the degree NYC is.
And, as a REAL conservative, I NEVER have been in favor of Sea-Tac’s expansion. For financial, and again, topographical reasons. (A looooooong time ago that airport should have been moved. Away from the immediate I-5 corridor.) That 3rd runway will NEVER be used as it was promoted (“lied for” is more appropriate. Just like ST!!!)
While she is at it, maybe Rep. Eddy can explain how it is the legislature keeps creating more special purpose governments – while, at the same time, complaining about “too many special purpose governments.”
http://www.discovery.org/casca.....ePaper.pdf
In other words, maybe Rep. Eddy is trying to say “stop me before I vote to create yet another transportation agency again.”
A couple years after the legislature created the brilliant monorail authority, the legislature passed ferry district legislation in 2006 (the King County Council sealed the deal in November 2007). From what I can tell, just about every regional governance “reform” advocate voted to create the brand spankin’ new layer of government with this ferry thing.
Guess what? That legislation created yet ANOTHER municipal corporation, and gave the new district the power to levy taxes without a public vote – making the new county-wide ferry district even more “off the regional transportation grid” than Sound Transit; ST, at least, has to answer to the state (via Expert Review Panels) and to the PSRC (which must validate its plans, I believe). ST also has to answer to the voters, because they cannot (to my knowledge) impose taxes without a vote.
Want more irony? Deb Eddy’s former employer, the Discovery Institute, (nerve center for the whole governance “reform” circus) is famous for whining about all the disjointed governments out there, keeping with their multi-decade Reaganite mission.
So, one would think the Discovery boys would be concerned about this new ferry district crating yet another layer of government.
Nope.
In fact, Discovery led the charge http://www.discovery.org/a/4301 to get these pointless, ineffective and costly “Misquito Fleet” boats back in the water, at taxpayer expense. They also pushed for monorail since the 1990’s. (it was supposed to be yet another showcase for the “public-private partnership model.”)
All these blatant contradictions lead us back to the argument Goldy makes: this is not about “too many governments”, it’s about light rail. Plain and simple. I can’t tell if Deb Eddy doesn’t understand that, or just doesn’t WANT to understand that. What else would explain all these contradictory moves by the legislature and her Discovery Institute friends?
I’m not in to “white hats vs. black hats” either. But, I think you would have to be pretty naive to ignore who is wearing the black hats. (hint: look for the white guy think tank guys who wanted to use light rail money to build their idiotic Freeway Monorail.)
One thing Goldy left out: if you wanted to identify the REAL problem with our transportation mess, you would need to look no further than the part-time Washington State legislature.
Yes, they raised the gas tax. But the political maneuverings (leading up to that ghastly Roads & Transit thing) which prevented Sound Transit from going to the ballot in 2006 indicate to me the legislature has absolutely no idea what it is doing.
Aside from always trying to put the brakes on light rail progress, of course.
“Generalizing conservatives as “anti-rail” is counterintuitive. I am, in fact, pro-rail. Just not for COMMUTING in any area that is too geologically unstable, too topographically diverse, too population-thin, e.g. Puget Sound.”
You actually just made an argument FOR light rail, cmiklich.
Geography and topography constraints call for a system with the least amount of right-of-way needs, and the highest capacity (light rail).
Geography and topography contsraints also call for a system that is flexible (elevated, at-grade, tunneled.)
Geography and topography constraints also call for a system which can be expanded once the intial line is in place, with capacity built in from the get-go.
But ditch the engineering and political realities for a moment, cmiklich. According to your own criteria, what technology or mode is more appropriate for this region? And not just for today, but for 1.5 million more people from today.
I also wouldn’t mind chuckling at your chosen site for a new international airport, given your opposition to the third runway.
Yo Bare:
Focus. Please.
The Puget Sound area is NOT SAFE for light rail. One medium-sized quake and blooey, there goes ALL the light rail. Because it isn’t and can’t be and WON’T BE multiple lanes. As just ONE example, coming out of the S end, there are at least 8 MAJOR roads with good North-South routes. If 25% of those roads go down in a quake, there’s still enough capacity to move everybody.
Light rail, heavy rail, it don’t matter: Capacity is near-zilch. ALL THIS HAS BEEN COVERED BEFORE. Trains hold few people (compared to roads), they are waaaaay beyond prohibitively expensive (don’t you want ANY money for schools? Parks? etc, etc?). They can’t follow close enough to make them a viable option for substantially dense commuting.
The density required for light rail to function (adequately) would a be a series of 80 story buildings along its route.
GAWD, THAT WOULD BE UGLY!!
I thought you lefties “cared” about the environment? You folks are willing to sacrifice ALL THAT THE LEFT says you care about just because you hate the freedom, you hate the independence, the hate the individualism that the automobile represents.
cmiklich illustrates perfectly why conservatives are failing miserably on the local and national scene. Take a look at the long string of puget sound R legislators who lost their seats spewing cmiklich’s mindless ideas. At least they still got Pam Roach, Cheryl Phlug (cough) and…well, that’s about it.
Only a dittohead clown or high school Conservative Klub nitwit would cite EARTHQUAKES as the reason we can’t build light rail here (cough!)
Jesus, these conservatives are stupid. I say bring back Newt Gingrich to give kidz like cmiklich a lecture about earthquakes, light rail, and Japan.
Note to mik: I can’t stand idiotic leftists any more than I can stand airhead selfservatives like you.
I did enjoy your laughable attempt to address the issue of rail capacity. Very entertaining.
87, 91: Time is running short here (session begins Monday), so this will be a short response.
I am already annoyed with myself for that ferry vote; you’re calling it out just reminded me again of how annoyed I am!! So, mea culpa. I know that in the past King County/METRO has run the Alki passenger ferry as a “pilot project” of the METRO bus system. So, I reasoned at the time, openly transferring authority and giving them a vehicle to run ferries (making them do it out in the open and honest, so to speak, as opposed to through the bus system) seemed like the right thing to do.
I temporarily suspended my cynicism about county government … and wanted to believe that they’d use the authority responsibly. Wrong. My cynicism is again firmly in place and will not budge again.
Next topic: I am not advocating gov reform as embodied in SB 5803, as passed by the Senate. That was NOT a good idea, IMHO. Fred’s and my last re-write appears as a House striker … hm, number 85? … on the bill’s website.
Finally: I had about six months at Cascadia/Discovery, read and wrote a lot on institutions, regionalism. It was a brief encounter. Fini.
Rep. Eddy wrote: “I temporarily suspended my cynicism about county government”
I don’t suppose I need to remind you that Sound Transit is NOT “county” government!