Unemployed real estate salesman Dino Rossi announced today that he has filed a lawsuit contesting the gubernatorial election.
Yawn.
In other breaking news, it didn’t snow yesterday… yet in some places it did… prompting angry bloggers to attack King County’s failure to reconcile its weather with its forecasts, as a “total mess.”
Exactly. Unimportant news – this was already expected. No surprise here – no news to be had.
Here’s a “total mess” for you:
*In many counties, more ballots were counted than there are registered voters identified as voting.
*In at least one county, many provisional ballots were placed directly into counting machines on election day rather than being reviewed and validated to ensure that they were cast by eligible voters who did not cast another ballot.
*Illegitimate votes were cast by convicted felons whose civil rights were not restored, deceased persons, and persons other than the registered voter whose ballot was voted.
*Ballot were “enhanced” in a manner that permanently obscures the original mark of the voter, in violation of state law.
Counties treated voters inconsistently in their decisions whether to count ballots that were incorrectly rejected.
*Inconsistent and changing standards were employed in determining when a ballot was an overvote or and undervote.
*Military and absentee ballots were mailed too late to be received by election day.
*Private information about provisional ballot voters was released, and third parties were allowed to use that private information to procure documents seeking to validate the ballots.
That’s just round one. I have a better solution: Get some snowplows and draft Phil Talmadge to stand up to Chrissy Bully Gregovych! Take our party back while we can!!!
Comment by Jenny— 1/7/05 @ 6:09 pm
In a way, I concede, you’re right. All of this was coming :-). Maybe you’ll run for Governor?
Look, right now there are two things making me cook w/ gas:
#1. Obvious – election theft.
#2. I feel I am watching Recallifornia all over again and the State Dems in both cases acted wrongly. The best thing to do is to embrace the revote, call for it and put forth a better candidate. I do NOT want to hand the State Repubs ammo for the next decade!!!
Electing a few of them is one thing, but the next 7 days could open up the floodgates.
I’ll give this to the Republicans; they are better propogandists than the Democrats, probably because they are better at ignoring the greys and concentrating on the black and white aspects of matters. And, Goldy, where do you get off citing Washington law? If you’d watched the press conference, you’d know it’s North Carolina law that should be followed in this case.
Gotta love that ringing endorsement from Slade Gorton in the Times:
So let’s see. A Republican ex-senator has examined their evidence, found 99% of it wanting and can only muster a “much more optimistic” for the newest (yet unproven) 1%? Sounds like an absolutely ringing endorsement of the Republicans chances in court :)
Goldy was right on the other thread. Republicans know they don’t have evidence to meet the burden of proof under the law, so they’re hoping for some “judicial activism” where the Supreme Court rules that the entire election is suspect based on “a bunch of suspicion”.
Having seen the Supreme Court rule twice that the SOS and auditors were correct in their interpretation of existing law, the Republicans have very little chance of that sudden burst of “activism” and “rule changing”.
Quite the opposite – I expect the court to make a very narrow ruling that says something like “While we appreciate that there were errors in this election, the law contains clear indication that no election shall be set aside the results based on the mere presence of errors or a number of suspicions. The Republicans have failed to meet the burden of proof laid out in the statutes.”
Of course, it wouldn’t hurt if they add “The Republicans have made many allegations, but failed to provide any evidence to substantiate those allegations” (can’t hurt to repeat this, since it didn’t sink in the first time).
I also look forward to seeing Josef in the background with his Ukranian flag and Cynical in his BIAW-provided orange jump-suit.
Here’s another reason why you REALLY don’t want to replay Recallifornia – you get weird guys like the Governator and the Vaninator running things. Earlier this week, the Governator gave his state of the state and this is just ONE report:
– – – – –
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger built his first budget by dangling promises of future protection and funding increases in order to coax various groups to accept stinging cuts without a fight.
But as he goes into a fresh round of budget negotiations, asking again for sacrifices, he’s lost the trust of at least one highly organized and vocal group: education leaders.
Schwarzenegger rankled teachers by failing to honor a promise he made to boost their funding if the economy brightened.
Adding insult to injury, he is proposing weakening the voter-sanctioned formulas that guarantee public schools a certain level of funding each year and imposing a controversial merit-pay system for teachers.
– – – – –
SOURCE: http://www.sacbee.com/content/.....7943c.html
Yeah, sure Governor-elect Rossi will fight for a state constitutional amendment to protect K-12 funding – but then again, he’s reliant on Dinocrats. And those Dinocrats are NOT going to pipe down or go anywhere if AND WHEN he can strike the “-elect”.
Okay, jcricket – I may bite.
Dinocrats are a myth. There are three of them on Rossi’s web page, and one of them is our in state version of Zell Miller.
Too many lies are being circulated these days. This is another one of those unfortunate and persistent ones.
At the end of the day, the State Supreme Court tosses the challenge on a 7-2, maybe 6-3 decision. Jim Johnson is bought and paid for by the BIAW, Sanders is always up for poking a finger in the government’s eye, and the dissent may get one more.
Harder to say what happens in Chelan County. I assume they thought long and hard about where to bring the suit. They could get an “under-equipped” judge like Arends in Pierce County for the challenge.
in other news, goldy’s jokes get stale, stop attracting viewers
Comment by Mount Olympus Hiker— 1/7/05 @ 6:25 pm
I’m another one and for some reason the lazy webmaster they have didn’t put me up. I can point out thousands more, if you’d like.
BTW: Which one’s the Zell. So I know who NOT to take after.
You’re not a Dinocrat, Josef. I have my sources. And from what they tell me, you are a rabid partisan who is blindly loyal to Dino Rossi and passonately addicted to Rossi’s spokeswoman Mary Lane.
You can’t point out thousands more. Dinocrats are a myth. Those that say they exist are in fact Republicans anyway.
What do you mean, which one is the Zell? You don’t know? So you know who not to take after? You’re a Republican anyway. You should be able to figure out who I’m talking about.
Actually, I think rather than WA or NC law, the Republicans would prefer to follow the rule of the mob.
Comment by Mount Olympus Hiker— 1/7/05 @ 6:38 pm
You said “Bring It On”. With pleasure:
“One seemingly conflicted area, Pierce County voting precinct 109, stretches from the bottom of South Hill near Highway 512 and curves up past the South Hill Mall, straddling older neighborhoods and newer housing developments.
“Its voters – about 1,400 of them – chose Democratic Sen. John Kerry for president and Republican Dino Rossi for governor by narrow margins.”
http://www.thenewstribune.com/.....1805c.html
More to come…
Kitsap voters typical Washington independents
http://www.kitsapsun.com/bsun/.....70,00.html
27 Nov. 2004
– – – – –
“This year, Republican Dino Rossi captured 1,529 more Kitsap votes than Democrat Christine Gregoire”
. . .
“Kitsap, Snohomish and Pierce, counties that all went for Kerry, also voted for Rossi.
“That’s why the county’s vote for Rossi hardly amounts to a Republican trend, said Kitsap County Democratic analyst Jim Sharpe.”
– – – – –
Yup, there ARE Dinocrats. Get your head out of your butts and get Gregovych to step down. Get a new candidate, pronto. Either Phil Talmadge or Maria Cantwell would do a lot of good and snatch a lot of Dinocrats, methinks.
Oh and Tim Sheldon. He is so out there, he’s WORSE than Zell Miller.
Hail Mary = non Catholic version
Actually, I think rather than WA or NC law, the Republicans would prefer to follow the rule of the mob.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No Goldy, just the rule of the democratic majority, without all the riff raff thrown in…
Josef, your evidence is crap.
Whoever said that all Kerry voters were Democrats? Just because you supported John Kerry for President does NOT make you a member of the Democratic Party. The Seattle Times was for Bush in 2000, but in 2004 they were for Kerry.
Many independents supported Kerry because they wanted Bush removed from office. He was too extreme for some folks.
Actually, Josef, you could, in fact, argue that it’s the other way around – that many of these are normally Republican-leaning voters who voted for Kerry. Or, perhaps they’re just independents who voted for Rossi because he ran a stronger campaign.
Dinocrats are a myth. I shouldn’t have to say this again.
No Goldy, just the rule of the democratic majority, without all the riff raff thrown in>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Chuck…care to define who you believe the riff raff to be?
RDC – you and me
The Republican party does love mob rule – they are the new mafia.
Republicans are stealing a page from modern day monopolists’ business tactics. It’s more profitable for a monopoly these days to continually break the law and occasionally just pay out when they lose cases (or settle out of court) than it is for them to comply with the law in the first place.
Republicans do this too – They can keep on breaking the law and “play the odds” that by the time they get caught, it will be too late – the damage is done. Or they keep lying to the public and figure that by the time their lies are exposed, the public will have moved on.
Or, they simply break the law so often it’s hard to keep up (scandal-fatigue). Just recently we’ve had everything from convictions for phone jamming in Vermont by the guy who headed up the Bush/Cheney ’04 campaign, multiple indictments for breaking campaign finance rules by Tom Delay and his cronies, exposing the identity of Valerie Plame, threatening a Federal employee not to reveal the true Medicare numbers, illegally spending federal tax dollars to promote the white-houses agenda in the form of fake TV news reports (or astro-turfing using a journalist).
Top it off with the fact that they will then cast out any Republican who actually suggests that breaking the law is, you kow, “bad (see Joel Hefley in the House). They’ve even recently gone so far as to threaten to their own if they show even a glimmer of independent thought (see Arlen Specter, Christine Todd Whitman, Sam Reed).
But it’s ok, everyone in a mob is corrupt, so eventually the people at the top are brought down by their own hubris or by the people they mistreat underneath them.
Riff Raff: Chucks definition: voting twice, felons voting, deadcrat votesmilitary not counted, provisional votes counted with all others
before verification, several hundred possibly thousands of votes that dont match up with voters…and finally a smug egotistical bitch that doesnt accept any of it as fact and thinks we will allow her to take office after “winning” 1 of 3 counts (as well as it being the least accurate count} without a revote.
It seems to me that paul berendt is in a pickle. He’s the one that initally brought up the King county ballot issues when chrissy was behind. Now that she is ahead he wants to put the genie back in the bottle.
He chose when to start the war…now he gets to fight it to the end. public opinion is running against chrissy and he can’t find a way to stop it. Even swearing her into office won’t stop the problems. He has tainted her beyond belief..and he can’t blame Dino for doing that. he personally is responsible for the call for a re-vote. Not King County, Not Dino, Not Chrissy, not Sam Reed.
Paul needs to step down after this is all over. He’s an idiot and has proven it time and time again.
reggie–
NO–I for one hope Berendt stays on as Democrat Party Chair.
I’m especially hoping he is the Chair when he is questioned under oath about those affadavits he personally brought in and attested to the validity of each and every one.
Berendt will end up being “Republican of the Year”.
jcricket–You are spinning again!
It’s intersting that infact we have not heard from all 39 County Auditors, despite what you spin, and how they feel about how this election was conducted. I hope we hear shortly.
And even though Logan has apparently trimmed the voterless vote list to 1200+, his recent work must be reviewed for more errors AND 1200 X 18%= +216 Gregoire…doesn’t it? And that’s assuming someone didn’t actually stuff the ballotbox. And also, I believe that 1200+ is a NET figure again…rather than how many voterless votes and vice versa.
jcricket-as a paid Dem spinmeister extraordinaire, I truly appreciate your efforts to invent stuff like all 39 County Auditors believe this was a fair election. Did you pull that out of your ass like almost everything else you post?
Cynical… oh… now you’re attacking Cricket as a “paid Dem spinmeister”..? Hell… I’m not even paid! (And I damn well should be.)
Tell me, what exactly is your job title?
Paul has done a great job as Chair. Both chambers in the legislature, both US Senate seats. Knows his job from the ground up. Not even in same league as imbecile Vance.
Paul is the fight back Dem…..finally. Three cheers, should run for office in the Seattle Soviet
Vance is the most crooked person in American politics….yes, right here. What a fool.
Actually, Josef, you could, in fact, argue that it’s the other way around – that many of these are normally Republican-leaning voters who voted for Kerry.
Comment by Mount Olympus Hiker— 1/7/05 @ 9:36 pm
Past elections show that this state has many more Democrat leaning voters then Republican leaning, and you know it. For your scenario to be plausable the split would need to be even or favor the republicans and we all know it does not. This election is clearly an example of Democrat leaning voters switching switching parties on the ballot, voting for Kerry for President and voting for Rossi for Governor. A little analysis for you:
Washington State – 2000:
President
Bush 45 % 1,108,864
Gore 50% 1,247,652
Governor
Carlson 40% 702,598
Locke 58% 1,021,310
Washington State – 2004:
President
Bush 45.6% 1,304,894 (about the same % as 2000 but apprx. 200,000 more votes)
Kerry 52.8% 1,510,201 (a couple % points higher then Gore but approx. 260,000 more votes)
60,000 vote net increase for the Democrat for President in 2004 resulting in only a slight gain percentage wise. This means both parties got out the vote and the dems not surprisingly got 60,000 more out then we did. It is Washington State after all.
Governor:
Rossi 48.8% 1,373,232 (an 8% increase over Carlson in 2000 and apprx. 670,000 More Votes)
Gregoire 48.8% 1,373,361 (Almost a 10% Drop in percentage from Locke but apprx. 350,000 more votes)
Net Vote Gain for Rossi (or the republican canidate) 320,000 votes. Did you hear that A NET GAIN FOR THE REPUBLICANS OF 320,000 VOTES FOR GOVERNOR.
This is not a situation where the Republican leaning voter voed for Kerry it is obviously a case of the Democrats voting for Rossi. DinoCrats exist in force.
Goldy-Citizen for Fair Elections. Volunteer. No Party affiliation.
Love to see small businesses successful…have worked with many. Don’t think much of Corporate America.
Will that all fit on my business card?
I am not a dinocrat by the way, although I respect them highly for their ability to recognize the stronger canidate. I am a true to the bone Republican. The Dinocrat scnrio is why the dems fear a re-vote, they have lost their base with Gregoire as their canidate and see power slipping away.
Comment by Chris— 1/8/05 @ 12:12 am
Actually, Gary Locke defeated John Carlson by a margin of 1,441,973 to 980,060. So refigure using the correct numbers. You did get the correct numbers for the 2000 President race, however. So it was actually a net GOP gain of over 460,000 votes for Governor, and a net GOP loss of over 60,000 votes for President.
Goldy and his ilk–
Read the Seattle Times:
The R’s lawsuit says “illegal votes counted because of errors, omissions, misconduct, neglect or other wrongful acts by election officials”.
Why do you think the R’s used those words???? Because it’s the law pinheads!!
In the same article Berendt blurts the Dem mantra “there is no evidence of fraud”. 2 things:
1) Fraud is not the standard the Courts use, although perhaps if Paul starts crying again, they may ignore the law just to shut him up.
2) The filing today was not the evidence. The evidence comes later.
Berendt has some clever wordsmiths. They want him to sound outraged and minimize the R’s efforts by trying to get the public to believe FRAUD is the standard. Bad try Paul–No sale.
The other favorite Dem mantra is to bellow “there is no proof of a conspiracy!” Well who the hell cares! That’s not the issue either.
Gregoire ought to start the “healing tour” by working on some of you jackasses.
I posted the other day, in another thread and observation I had made and Goldy went ahead and started this thread off the same way. It is funny how Rossi is always refered to as a Real Estae Salesman, an unemployeed one in Goldy’s case. Why is it you do not reference his political experience when describing him? Does being a State Senator not count when you are a republican? How about Governor? President? In 10th grade I worked at Denny’s, so under your rules Goldy, I am an unemployed busboy. Maybe I’ll start posting with that name; “Unemployed Busboy”.
Chris, your evidence sucks.
Washington voters have been trending Democratic in presidential elections for several election cycles. Much of the nation backed Clinton in 1992 and 1996, which was why he won. The state also went for Gore and Kerry, not surprisingly. Craswell and Carlson didn’t make it because they were considered extremists. Rossi is an extremist, but he is also a good liar.
There are plenty of Republicans in Washington state. I would suggest that many of the Republicans in the state vote for the Democratic candidate for president. Have you noticed, Chris, that the Republicans recently controlled the state Senate before the Republicans took it back? Obviously, there are plenty of Republicans in Washington State.
This nonsense about Dinocrats needs to end. A true Democrat would not vote for Dino Rossi. An independent who leans Democratic might, but that person is not a Democrat – THEY ARE AN INDEPENDENT. You think everyone in the state has a party affiliation, and sticks to that affiliation religiously? Absolutely not. That is where your case falls apart, Chris.
I know plenty of Democrats – Chris – and I know that Democrats despise Dino Rossi.
Enough of the “Dino-crat” nonsense. It would be dumb to have to start talking about Gregoireublicans too.
Comment by Richard Pope— 1/8/05 @ 12:35 am
thanks for the correction. I went to an MSNBC site for the information and I assuming yours to be correct. I did not find it on the SOS website and MSNBC showed having the data.
correction: Have you noticed, Chris, that the Republicans recently controlled the state Senate before the DEMOCRATS took it back?
Comment by Mount Olympus Hiker— 1/8/05 @ 12:40 am
My evidence only sucks because it debunks your Theory”. That is all you had was theory and the facts prove your theory wrong. Locke is hated by Republicans so you know that he did not get any R votes but still got over 58%. 58% without Republican cross over and how exactly did Gregoire only get 48% if there was not Democratic cross over to Rossi????? So what you are saying is Dinocrats don’t exist but Dinopendents do? I got it now. What a crock of crap.
The incredible thing is the massive public support for Rossi. Well over 1/2 want this revote. I find that amazing. They are NOT yawning and wanting it all to go away. They are itching to get at this. Even the college-age or senior in high-school-looking guy working at the Taco Time down the street sounded very impassioned about wanting a revote when we briefly discussed it at the drive-through window. How often does anyone like that ever pay too close attention to this stuff?
I’m also amazed at Christine’s PR efforts in this whole thing. She keeps shooting herself in the foot with her statements, that always manage to have a high annoyance factor to them. (sorry! but it’s true! IF it isn’t, explain the huge public support for Dino).
And now that she’s going on this statewide “healing” tour, the public is really going to explode once it dawns on them that it’s really just a taxpayer-funded statewide “campaign” tour for the revote. How she keeps doing this to herself is beyond me.
What I sincerely want to know is, why do democrats (even the ones who voted for her)dislike her so much? Some here have indicated a preference for Talmadge, etc. What do you perceive is wrong with her? thanks for your input
Comment by Mount Olympus Hiker— 1/8/05 @ 12:41 am
My point exactly. Washington is a liberal state they took back the senate and in a year that happened your lame ass canidate lost a 10% of the vote your party enjoyed previosly and the rublicans pick 80% of your loss up in gains.
that’s 10 percentage points not just 10%. a huge difference.
Hundreds of thousands of votes!!!!!!!!!!!!! to the republican at a time that the Democrat presidential canidate increases his percentage by over 2 points, the State Senate Dem’s pick up two seats and 3 more in the House to take control and your wanna be governor losses 10 percentage points. The dem’s should have kicked the R’s asses and it just did not happen, you need to ask yourself why and quit making excuses. Admit it she is a drain on your party. PLEASE!!!! Keep her around, it is really helping.
Several interesting things about a challenge.
The grounds on which an election challenge can be filed are limited. The challenger has to show “it appears that an amount of illegal votes has been given to the (winner), that, if taken from that person, would reduce the number of the person’s legal votes below the number of votes given to some other person for the same office, after deducting therefrom the illegal votes that may be shown to have been given to the other person.”
The challenger also has requirements to meet before challenging a vote as illegal. RCW 29A.68.100 says:
“No testimony may be received as to any illegal votes unless the party contesting the election delivers to the opposite party … a written list of the number of illegal votes and by whom given, that the contesting party intends to prove at the trial. No testimony may be received as to any illegal votes, except as to such as are specified in the list.”
This creates several problems for the Rossi challenge. First, if they have to name every illegal voter and prove they were illegal, its going to take a while. There is no provision for presuming votes are illegal. And the court certainly can’t presume all illegal votes went for Gregoire. And it doesn’t appear it can find a vote illegal unless it knows who cast it.
Some of the complaints by the Rossi camp will go nowhere.
1) Disenfranchisement of military voters – Lacking any evidence that King County sent the ballots out late or refused ballots sent on time, there simply isn’t any substance.
2) The rules were changed. Since the Supreme Court allowed the county to do what it did, I don’t see a superior court judge finding a problem here.
3) The county can’t reconcile the number of voters with ballots. I don’t see any requirement this has to be done, and the failure to do so doesn’t seem to fall within the parameters of the challenge. I also don’t see any provision allowing the court to presume so-called voterless ballots are illegal votes.
4) If the court can’t presume all illegal ballots are Gregoire votes, the 52 Pierce county felons are at best a wash, since Pierce went for Rossi. And the dead voters who voted for Rossi actually hurt, because the statute says illegal votes to the loser are taken from his total.
It is quite obvious to me that the Rossi supporters who are so confident this challenge will be successful don’t appreciate how difficult an election contest is. Its not supposed to be easy, and Rossi has an uphill climb. Don’t be surprised if he doesn’t win.
Felons go heavily democratic. John Fund of the Wallstreet Journal, who knows a thing or two about fraudulent elections, says that 79% of the felons who voted in Florida 2000 (numbering in the thousands) were registered democrats. I more than once have heard complaints from hardcore leftists that felons should be allowed to vote. They would only do that if they believed those felon votes ‘went’ democrat.
John Fund is a partisan hack, but it doesn’t matter if that is true or not. The election laws don’t allow the Court to presume felons vote democratic, anymore than it can assume the dead vote republican.
Chris… you’re taking these numbers out of context. One of the reasons R’s did so much better compared to the two previous gubernatorial elections is that the last two candidates didn’t bother to hide the fact that they were right-wing wackos. Rossi did. If Republicans had run a more reasonable candidate in 2000, they would have gotten a much larger percentage of the vote.
Right Wayne, so we should just assume that all 79% of those registered democrats voted Republican? Look, everyone knows that a small percentage of those who call themselves anything vote for ‘the other guy’ (e.g. well over 80% calling themselves Rs voted for Bush this time around), but the point IS a huge majority of registered democrats VOTE DEMOCRAT! Is that so hard to swallow??? I’d put money down that likely a similar majority of felons who voted this time around in KC voted for Christine.
Because I was amused at the thought that describing him as an “unemployed real estate salesman” would piss off people like you.
I guess when Stefan over at (u)SP calls Rons Sims “the Robert Mugabe of WA politics”, comparing him to a vicious African dictator, that’s okay? Or when they refer to our new governor as “Chris Fraudoire”… that’s respectable?
But my gentle (and technically accurate) ribbing is somehow an evidence that Democrats are less civil that Republicans? Come on…
You may call Rossi an unemployed R.E. agent, omitting mention of his contributions to the state as a senator, but you still have to deal with the fact that your efforts to describe him as some hack drawing unemployment checks (one of your desperate fellow lefties even described him as a sort of sexual predator–that’s just pathetic), the public here in WA seems to be heavily on his side. If he’s such a dufus and she’s so great, what is it that all those people are seeing that you don’t? Or are all of them just idiots and you are the supreme all-knowing being who knows better than all of them??
M –
Let me break this down.
1) In Washington, voters don’t register by party, so we don’t know what percentage of felons would be democrat here.
2) No competent judge is going to assume any political affiliation of those 52 Pierce county felons (assuming they exist and their right to vote has not been restored).
3) The only legitimate assumption a court could make, if such assumptions are even allowed in a WA election contest) is that the group breaks down the same way as the county at large.
4) Therefore, unless the court is going to assume every illegal vote went to Gregoire, which I am confident is not permissible under the statutes, the felon votes break out even or 1 or 2 in favor of Rossi.
Yes, I am. Careful I don’t smite you.
Comment by Wayne— 1/8/05 @ 2:25 am
If you have to allocate the felon’s votes in Pierce County, it can be done based on the results in the precinct in which each felon resides. I think that you will find a disproportionate number in areas like Hilltop in Tacoma, which went 80% to 90% for Gregoire.
If you try to break it down by precinct, the distribution is too small to make that assumption. I don’t know how many precincts there are in Pierce, but its got to be 100 or so. If each precinct has only zero, one or two felons per precinct(and I’m sure a few of the felons live in trailers out in the sticks – red country) that procedure is not statistically valid.
Wayne’s brief legal analysis is very astute – I would add that under Washington law the definition of “illegal vote” is very narrow.
RCW 29A.08.030 (b) says: Illegal votes do not include votes cast by improperly registered voters who were not properly challenged under RCW 29A.08.810 and 29A.08.820.
RCW 29A.08.810 provides that: Challenges initiated by a registered voter must be filed not later than the day before any primary or election, general or special, at the office of the appropriate county auditor.
In my reading this means – you have to challenge a vote before the election – you can’t wait to see if you lose the election and then go looking for votes to challenge.
M – once again, Gregoire ran the office that defends the state against lawsuits by DOC inmates — i.e. convicted felons. Do you really think that these felons are going to be so happy that her office kept them in prison that they are going to come out and vote for her?
bax that is a silly argument. Rossi doesn’t have to prove who they voted for he only has to show that they voted. if there are enough tainted ballots that would overturn the election he makes his case. Logan’s claim that 90 of the provisional ballots in King County were good only strehgths the case. State wide the acceptance rate of Provisional ballots was 65%. Why the difference in King county more enlighten voters? not buying that one and neither will a judge.
The only way to solve this whole issue is a revote. Chrissy will lose the re-vote handily. And they know it. If she thought she had a chance to win a revote she would stand up and say let’s go for it.
Comment by Goldy— 1/8/05 @ 2:07 am
I don’t feel any pain from your accurate remark meant in jest.
Comment by Mount Olympus Hiker— 1/7/05 @ 9:36 pm
Oh, oh I will call the Rossi campaign and get a # to post on the latest thread AND here. And on my blog http://josef-a-k.blogspot.com !
Comment by M— 1/8/05 @ 1:12 am
Fund? Please.
This would be the same Fund, who posted on the WSJ site that the BIAW had found proof that the 400 affidavidts were all signed by the same person, only to have BIAW ‘clarify’ that they had said no such thing. Honestly, you GOPers would be far more credible if you didn’t have so many proven liars putting out your PR.
According to the News Tribune, Pierce County has found 1 instance of a felon voting, which they have forwarded to the Sheriff’s Office. Wasn’t the GOP saying it was 50?
But my gentle (and technically accurate) ribbing is somehow an evidence that Democrats are less civil that Republicans? Come on…
Comment by Goldy— 1/8/05 @ 2:07 am
The examples you sight of R’s “Name Calling” are adjectives or ecpresions used to describe their opinion of the type of polititian they feel these idividuals are. As we are talking about politics. the fact he was in real estate, first of all is not a negative, and second of all has nothing to do with him politically. It really does not piss me off as you say, I really don’t care what you call him. It justs interests me that it is so common for this meaningless real estate angent description to be used in leui of refering at all to his political background. I can only assume you are afraid to assist in letting the less informed know the truth of his experience end ability to be Governor. If you can get people thinking of him as as an unemployed Real Estate Salesman, they will have a negative view of him. Why not jst say he wants to be our Governor and he is not quealified because he was a terrible Senator. Or he was the Hitler of the State Senate. Atleast then you would be addressing his political capabilities. We could then argue the facts of that description. But call him what you will, again I just find it very curious.
I should really proof read for typos before submitting these posts. That last one was bad. Let me know if you have a hard time with my 2nd grade spelling.
All those registered Democratic felons in Fla–In WA, they’re Dinocrats. :) Another hill for Dino to climb.
It was the BIAW’s claim. And we all know they are the ultimate arbiters of truth and accuracy. No partisan interest on their end. No history of misrepresenting themselves to the public. Course not.
And, of course, a list of felons is never innacurate, right? Oh, wait, the list used in Florida in 2000 wrongly disenfranchised at least 2100 people who had their voting rights restored and others who weren’t felons at all. Or explain how the list had almost no hispanic felons on it – Clerical error on the part of the Republican election officials was the explanation (which I’m sure Republicans were more than happy to believe in that case). The list was so innacurate that Republicans scrapped it this time because they knew they’d get sued by people who should legally have been allowed to vote.
Or In Ohio, where county elections boards had wrongly kept 7,000 ex-prisoners from voting.
Wonder if the BIAW is using a list compiled by the same private company.
BTW – Many states allow felons to vote automatically once they serve their time. This mirrors the position of the American Bar Association.
http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~askin/voting.html
And any state that purges voter rolls using so-called “felon lists” (like Florida) regularly wrongly disenfranchises 1000s of eligible voters, which shows how hollow the Republicans sudden embrace of “disenfranchisement bad” is.
Chris… you’re taking these numbers out of context. One of the reasons R’s did so much better compared to the two previous gubernatorial elections is that the last two candidates didn’t bother to hide the fact that they were right-wing wackos. Rossi did. If Republicans had run a more reasonable candidate in 2000, they would have gotten a much larger percentage of the vote.
Comment by Goldy— 1/8/05 @ 1:54 am
So my point is made. Rossi apeared more “Resonable” so Deomcrat leaning (historically & for President 2004) switched over and voted for the Resonable appearing Dino Rossi.
Wayne, well DUH we don’t register by party here. You missed the point. The point was that felons in FLorida are probably not dramatically different from felons anywhere else. It’s not hard to extrapolate that felons largely vote democrat. Again, I remind all that hardcore leftist groups wring their hands that felons aren’t allowed to vote. They don’t do that because they think felons vote for Bush, trust me. Otherwise their little seminars would focus on military votes not being counted.
Also, see post #59.I assumed you knew that first point, so forget having to know who voted for whom. But money on felons going largely for dems is easy money. Just ask those hand-wringing socialsts who are upset that felons don’t vote. they don’t care about dems issuing memos on how to get military votes thrown out. Truly they don’t.
and Goldy, I fully expected you to say that yes you are the supreme all-knowing being. That’s the ‘you’re all stupid, we know better leftist mindset.’ It’s one of the big reasons y’all don’t do well in mainstreet USA
Okay Chris, would you prefer I describe Rossi as “a former state senator and commercial real estate agent who made his millions by attaching his career to that of a convicted felon who conned clients out of millions” …? How’s that for accuracy, huh?
Thanks… you’ve given me a great idea for a post about felons voting.
Reggie wrote:Rossi doesn’t have to prove who they voted for he only has to show that they voted. if there are enough tainted ballots that would overturn the election he makes his case.
That’s exactly what he has to do. The RCWs are very clear. It’s not enough to show there were illegal votes or errors. It has to be enough to actually over-turn the election. And that means proving the illegal votes were in favor of Gregoire. What if the 52 felons all voted for Rossi? Why should we over-turn the election in that case?
All a losing candidate would have to do is ensure that enough illegal votes were made in their favor and they’d get a “second chance”. There’s a reason the laws are written as narrowly as they are, and it’s to avoid the mere presence of illegal votes or errors from overturning an election, because those things happen every election.
And while there may be some small “shadow” cast over Gregoire by the wing-nuts, it will have the same effect it did on Bush from 2000-2004, which is very little. There are far more pressing issues that will weigh on peoples’ minds as they judge how Gregoire governs.
The longer the losing Republicans try to keep referring to a “stolen election” the more they look like the “looney left” they’re always deriding. Not a good issue for them to try and attach themselves too.
Mr. Cynical, after attending a couple of legislative district meetings, I’m not too sure that Mr. Berendt is a shoe in for state chair. There were some other candidates that addressed a meeting today that are quite impressive, and the grumblings I heard among the audience wasn’t exactly complimentary to Paul.