A bipartisan group of senators has struck a deal to avoid the “nuclear option” on the filibuster.
Under a compromise reached by an assortment of moderates, mavericks and senior statesmen just as the Senate was headed into its climactic overnight debate over the filibuster, three previously blocked appeals court nominees, Janice Rogers Brown, William Pryor and Priscilla R. Owen – will get floor votes. No commitment was made on the fate of two others, William Myers and Henry Saad.
In addition, the seven Democrats in the deal said they were committed to filibuster future judicial nominees only under “extraordinary” circumstances, while their Republican counterparts promised to support no changes in Senate rules that would alter the filibuster rule, effectively denying the 50 votes it would take to enact such a rules change.
Personally, I’m not so sure I like this deal, but I’m sure the theo-fascists on the religious right like it even less, so I guess anything that makes Bill Frist look like a weenie is fine by me.
In case you’re interested, here’s the pdf.
Meanwhile, in Olympia…
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....;dpfrom=th
The Democrats paid a high price in terms of the three wackos who will now occupy federal judgeships, but this deal blows a huge hole in Bill Frist’s presidential aspirations. It leaves his theo-freak constituency unsatisfied, and proves he’s not in control of the Senate — he’s got his own members making deals without his (or Bush’s) permission. A big victory for the politics of negotiation, compromise, and collegiality — even if the details do suck. Chalk one up for the good guys.
Reply to 1
Whoop-dee-fucking-dooo! Gregoire gets a 4 percent raise spread over 2 years. As a CEO responsible for a budget of $26 billion and supervising 100,000 employees, she will make 150K a year. Why do Republicans always throw a hissy fit anytime a Democrat makes over 25K a year?
Patrick,
The goal of Republicans is to ensure that Democratic politicians make $0K per year….the idea is to CUT their pay, not raise it. This is why prr-ick is all mad about Gregoire’s pay raise.
Indeed…Why should Democrats be paid by the government? Taxpayers should not subsidize the taxandspendliberals! Make them go out and find their own work for a living!
And, oh, by the way, never mind that inflation behind the curtain!
prr @ 1
What is your point. Those raises were not given by lawmakers. Are you making some kind of partisan point here? Wow. . . Legislators make a whopping $35,254/year. That kind of salary just screams out for corruption: bribes, kickbacks, moonlighting at McDonalds, etc.
Meanwhile, in Washington DC…
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITI.....index.html
thatPrick@3
The problem I have with Gregoire getting any raise is although she is responsible for a $26 Billion Budget and 100,000 employees……the problem is we the taxpayers are lucky if we get $13 Billion of services and the work that is done could be done by 50,000 employees.
You are a great set-up man thatPrick!!
Keep teein’ ’em up baby!!!!!!!!!!
Goldy, I think you have it about right … a small but significant loss, but a larger positive in that the filibuster is all but intact and Frist is damaged.
My initial reaction (look, an actual blog entry!) was to wonder how they’d define “extraordinary circumstances”, and to suggest that things would work out OK as long as it came out to anything other than a debatable definition that could be defeated by a simple majority.
Well, it turns out that there’s no definition at all. Which means that “extraordinary circumstances” means whatever at least 41 Senators say it means. Which means that, for the rest of the 109th Congress, the filibuster is still in place, except for those few horrid judges-to-be.
Theo fascists, goldy..?
That’s a new one, I thought you’d given up on the Nazi references.
You saying Frist is like Mussolini, Franco, and Hitler?
Should we compare Howard Dean to Trotsky, Ho Chi Minh, Che ?
Righton said “I thought you’d given up on the Nazi references.”
Goldy made no reference to nazis.
Righton said “You saying Frist is like Mussolini, Franco, and Hitler?”
Goldy made no reference even close to that.
Righton, I think I have discovered why you are a neo-con supporter.
You can read, but cannot comprehend. Typical of the Trolls on this blog.
Reply to 7, I have no snappy comeback to your assertion. You’re full of shit, that’s all.
If you want to see massive inefficiency, waste of money, and poor service — look no farther than the PRIVATE SECTOR health care system in the U.S.
It’s sad that good people who are elected by large majorities in their states are treated with such outright contempt. If you have an argument that actually makes sense as to why these people are not qualified, then make it. Resorting to such stupidity as calling someone a “theo-facist” just proves the shallowness of your case.
It makes you wonder why anyone would go into public service. The least they should get is a little respect. Disagree with their views, but don’t malign their character.
Oh – wait – I forgot where I was! This is Goldy’s playhouse where ad hominem attacks reign!
Donnaggedon:
Hmmm…. Let’s take a look at what Goldy said:
“Personally, I’m not so sure I like this deal, but I’m sure the theo-fascists on the religious right like it even less, so I guess anything that makes Bill Frist look like a weenie is fine by me.”
Definition of ‘fascism’ at Britannica.com:
“Fascism arose during the 1920s and ’30s partly out of fear of the rising power of the working classes; it differed from contemporary communism (as practiced under Joseph Stalin) by its protection of business and landowning elites and its preservation of class systems. The leaders of the fascist governments of Italy (1922–43), Germany (1933–45), and Spain (1939–75)—Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, and Francisco Franco…”
Also, definition of nazism:
“Totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of Germany’s Nazi Party (1920–45)…See also fascism”
So, let’s review…you said:
“Goldy made no reference to nazis.
Righton said “You saying Frist is like Mussolini, Franco, and Hitler?”
Goldy made no reference even close to that.”
Then what conclusion should I come to when Goldy uses the word fascist?
I think “theo-fascist” is an accurate descriptor of the political ideology of some on the far Christian right. They are quite open about wanting to establish a theocracy, and are working hard to turn the US into a one-party state. There is also a fascist element to some on the non-religious far-right, the so-called neo-cons, who seem quite comfortable following in the foot prints of Goebbels.
I’m not going to shy away from using the word fascist when it is justified, out of fear of offending political simpletons who have no idea what the word means. Calling someone a fascist is not the same as calling someone a Nazi.
Goldy: “I’m not going to shy away from using the word fascist when it is justified, out of fear of offending political simpletons who have no idea what the word means. Calling someone a fascist is not the same as calling someone a Nazi.”
Then don’t get mad when folks on the right call liberals communists, and please tell me, in a poll where you asked educated adults “Name me the person who is the best example of fascism”, who do you think would come out on top? You don’t think the label ‘fascist’ is just code for something else? Labels don’t advance your argument; but hey, they do get a reaction, don’t they?
Jon @ 15: “Labels don’t advance your argument; but hey, they do get a reaction, don’t they?”
Jon, labels and name-calling is all the Dems have left — as evidenced by their Fearless Leader, (Witch)doctor Dean [Yeeeaaagghhhh!]
Goldy and other Mensheviks, Bolsheviks, comrades
Give me a break. We’ve always had and always will have a handfull of far right nuts. Hayden lake and the real neo-nazis type places are out there. But really, in a nation with declining adherence to traditional religion, you are just sounding silly.
Tell me why we are today any closer to a right wing Christian controlled nation than say 100 years ago, or maybe 1930s with Father Coughlin on the radio nightly, or in the hey day of the John Birch Society.
You are really only saying, “I thought we were on the verge of majority control of the US Govt, but those nasty conservatives tricked the voters, must be this red state/blue state thing w/ mandatory church enrollment, state rallies at Nuremburg like centers.
(ps, righties out there help me w/ worse examples of Commies that the left will flinch at. Lenin and Castro are still deemed nice guys by them. Stalin?)
and ps, goldy, which group of neo/theo fascists are squarely behind saving Israel from the fundie islamists?
and goldy, other commie/atheists…
I’ve noticed that you quickly pull the Nazi cord when arguing. That and swearing.
Ever wonder why politics in this nation is getting so nasty?
Just as a reminder on political nomenclature:
Communism holds that the means of production should be held by the workers who produce the goods.
Boshlevism (what I think our rightie friends are thinking of) says the workers can’t be trusted with the reins of power until their thinking has been adjusted correctly. Thus the State and Party will hold all assets and property in trust until such time as the workers are educated not to become petit bourgeoisie and to uphold the true ideals of soc-ial-ism.
People who think that way do exist on the left. I think The Nation holds a cruise every couple of years where they all get together. These people generally regard the Democratic party as a corporatist sell-out (their words, not mine). They rarely show up at all, and are certainly not allowed to sit at the grownup’s table.
Fascism is when the state, industry, and church work together to benefit each other’s interests. It doesn’t have to be bad old black-and-white Nazi Germany. It can also be squeaky-clean and brightly colored Singapore.
The Republican Party has a problem. Large corporations fund their campaigns, and fundamentalist Christians form the backbone of the party faithful who get a candidate in to office. If the righties here want to dispute that, look at the Washington GOP’s candidate roster over the last few years. Where are the adult Republicans like Dan Evans, Ralph Munro, and John Spellman? Sam Reed may be the last one left. The rest are so conservative you’d think they were picking candidates for Mississippi not Washington.
The companies and the ideologues who deliver elections for the Republican party don’t do this out of the goodness of their hearts. They want things. Many of the things they want, have gone on record as wanting, and intend to get scare the wits out of me.
Call it fascism. Call it anything you want. It stinks.
Jon @13
“Fascism arose during the 1920s and ’30s partly out of fear of the rising power of the working classes; it differed from contemporary communism (as practiced under Joseph Stalin) by its protection of business and landowning elites and its preservation of class systems.”
Jon, I think the problem here is that you believe fascist is simply a label or calling someone a name. And since it is not exactly a favorable adjective, it must not be correct when applied to Republicans. But take a look at your own quote and compare it to the current strain of the Republican party in power.
* ‘Fear of rinsing power of working classes’? Check – Union busting is the national pastime of the Republican party and they scream class warfare whenever anyone mentions that their policies might not exactly benefit working folks.
*’Protection of business and landowning interests’? Check – Do we even need to start down this road?
*’Preservation of Class systems’? – This one is a little harder to directly compare precisely because the terms of the debate have shifted considerably. But what is at the root of anti-immigration elements of the Republican Party? There are the security concerns, but Republicans were anti-immigrant long before 9/11 – (Pete Wilson?) Some link it directly to a latent racist element, but I think it has much more to do with class. People are worried about the ‘dirty’, ‘uneducated’ farm workers coming in and mucking up their middle class lives. This is not universal by any means in the Republican party, for both economic and political reasons, but is highlighted all the more by the conflict in interests there.
Here is one more element that you missed in the Britannica article which you also might notice some parallels.
“Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from each other, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites…”
Hmmm… “extreme militaristic nationalism”… “contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism”… The militaristic ambitions of the neo-cons, who are now firmly in control of foreign policy and the Pentagon go beyond anything cooked up by Mussolini.
Now you respond that it must be ok for Republicans to tar Democrats with the label communist. But the case is not even close…
Communism – “As a theoretical social and economic system, communism would be a type of egalitarian society with no state, no privately owned means of production, no money and no social classes. In communism, all property is owned cooperatively and collectively, by the community as a whole, and all people have equal social and economic status and rights.”
The main thing here is the belief in abolishing private property… can you tell me on elected Democrat who believes this?
Reply to 13, you should come to the conclusion that the GOP has turned into a fascist gang!
Reply to 15, you fascists starting the name calling, how does it feel to get some of your medicine back? Get used to it, because we liberals are going to do a lot more of it … name calling, that is. BTW, the names we’re calling you fascists are earned and well deserved. You ARE a fascist gang!
Why? Here’s why:
1. Warmongering
2. Taking money from the middle class and giving it to the rich
3. Arresting and imprisoning people without charges or trial
4. Torturing innocent people
5. Clubbing and tear gassing people for engaging in peaceful public dissent
6. Arresting people at political events supposedly open to the general public for having a bumper sticker that criticizes the fascists currently in power
7. Changing House rules to immunize corrupt fascist congressmen from ethics investigations or criticism
8. Changing Senate rules so fascist senators can run roughshod over the political opposition
9. Calling people communists for opposing the fascist ideology
10. Criticizing Clinton for stopping a genocide with no American combat deaths, then going out and slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis with smart bombs dropped by stupid fascists in the name of stopping a genocide
There’s more, but that should get you fascists started on your research. Oh, I forgot, you fascists don’t do any research, you just believe whatever Bush, Lush, and Faux tell you.
Reply to 16
See 17
Comment on 17
I wasn’t aware that Israel needed saving from anybody. They seem to do quite well at saving themselves. Maybe they would get along with their neighbors better if they didn’t hog all the water and tillable soil, stick their settlements in the middle of Palestinian villages, and bully quite so much. Yeah, yeah, I know the Palestinians aren’t innocent. But don’t kid yourself that the Israelis are innocent victims. They’re assholes.
I suppose some idiot (e.g., Cynical) will infer from my previous post that I’m a Palestinian sympathizer. He would be wrong (as usual). If I have to take sides in this quarrel, I’ll side with the Israeli assholes instead of the Palestinian murderers, but sometimes I wonder if they don’t deserve each other.
Patrick @ 3,
1. How do you knwo I am a republican?
2. my point in posting this is that we have repeatedly heard of the financial crisis in our state, been promised “no new taxes”, etc…
What do we see? pay raises across the board.
Comment on 20
Nindid, the problem is wing-wackos are so accustomed to using labels like “commie” and “traitor” pejoratively in ways that render their actual definitions meaningless, that they just assume when you call them “fascists” you’re doing the same thing.
Projection, remember?
The difference is, we’re NOT commies or traiters, but they ARE fascists.
Janet S @ 12:
“Oh – wait – I forgot where I was! This is Goldy’s playhouse where ad hominem attacks reign!”
Yeah, like “leftist pinheads,” maybe?
We learned the power of simplistic labeling from fascist neo-cons since the time of the Alien and Sedition Acts to the drug and sex induced fascistic rantings of Rush Limbaugh, et. al. The protection of inherited wealth and faceless and unauthorized corporate power that Republicans seek to establish as the official religion of America only serves to encourage the Stalinistic leanings of Karl Rove and the weasely underbelly of the fascistic and dirty trick playing CRAZY RIGHT> That’s what I said! Karl Rove is a Stalinist and so were his parents! I can prove it:
Carl’s Jr., Carl Smith, etc…
Karl Marx, Karl Rove, etc.
See what I’m getting at?
That Prick @26 I have no delusions that the facts will influence many of the trolls. But Jon is one of the folks on the board who actually engages in reality-based debate so I thought his post deserved a reasoned response.
you can always tell who got the best of a compromise by which radical faction screams the loudest about it. People for the American Way are cautiously pleased; Dobson is out for blood. Based on that, Reid rooked Frist, but GOOD.
If nothing else, the collected wisdom of people like messrs Byrd and Warner were temporarily re-elevated in the Senate, which is something that body has needed for some time.
torrid @30 The concern I have is that we are likely to see more of these tactics which threaten to undermine the institutions of government for short term political gain.
The vast majority of Republican senators came in after Gingrich and really do seem to see politcs as warfare by other means. Raze and pillage the democracy if it means you can put 5 extreme judges on the bench rather then 3.
Where would the caucus be without Warner and McCain and they are both over 70. I profoundly disagree with them on numerous political issues, but I can respect them because they respect the institutions of my country. I can’t say that for many of their younger collegues…
I figure there are two ways for Dems to look at this compromise:
1. The cynical way: The Democrats will back down and give the Republicans exactly what they want, as long as the Republicans promise (maybe) to let the Democrats filibuster a judge someday in the future.
2. The optimistic way: Okay, three of Bush’s far-right-wing judicial nominees will get voted on by the Senate, which means that the Republicans will have to justify putting them on the bench for life, which means they will have to publicly defend their radical views. There is a slim chance that one or more of them will not be confirmed. Meanwhile the filibuster is preserved for any circumstance 41 Senators see as “extraordinary.” And this puts a kink in Sen. Frist’s presidential ambitions, because he doesn’t have an achievement to crow about to his right-wing base and it looks like he couldn’t even keep his own party members in line—heck, he got upstaged by a bunch of moderates.
My $0.02: If there’s any place a filibuster is appropriate, it’s against a judicial nomination. Senators ought to ensure our judges will be fair to all and not biased by their own ideology. Unlike nominations to positions within the President’s administration, judges are appointed for life.
The goal of Republicans is to ensure that Democratic politicians make $0K per year….the idea is to CUT their pay, not raise it. This is why prr-ick is all mad about Gregoire’s pay raise.
Mount Olympus Hiker:
The goal of the Republicans is to make sure everyone makes $0 per year. They’re all about fighting unions, shipping good-paying jobs to India, China, Singapore, Vietnam, etc. Only problem is, once they succeed, how are you supposed to buy your $355,000 house in Seattle while paying back your $150,000 in student loans and raising your nine kids because birth control is illegal?
OR it could be a sinister Republican ploy whereby Priscilla Owens gets in there and the WHAMO! The nuclear option.
Every judge that gets in there without requiring Republicans to use their nukes is one more that they don’t have to worry about. When Democrats DO decide to pout and filibuster, they will get their heads handed to them.
Both Dems. and Rep. Senators are owned by multi-national corporations and the un-smooth running of the Senate would be detrimental to the swift approval of even more military funds for idiotic neo-con projects around the world that enrich these “FREE MARKET HEROES.” Plus, if there were up/down votes on the supposed Dem. agenda, as Dems. were saying they were going to do, the NO votes from Dem. as well as Rep. Senators might be more revealing than either side wants known.
Actually Israel depends hugely on the US (gov’t gives them >$4bb per year in a small country (huge per capita) plus Americans donate a lot each year via charities (many jewish).
Nixox saved the country w/ airlift and mobilizing our forces in 1973.
Yeah they are capable but broke w/ out us. (ps, we give another $2bb per year to Egypt just to keep the 2 guys sort of happy).
I can’t figure why 25 years ago liberals were huge Israel supporters, especialy, but not solely Jewish/liberal/democrats.
Today libs run from Israel, and embrace the Arabs. Yeah israel runs roughshod, but man, supporting Arafat and the mass murderers is not good
righton, your numbers are wrong (again). This year the U.S. is giving Israel $2.28 billion in military assistance, and $240 million in economic assistance. (Israel is now in the 8th year of a voluntary 10-year plan to wean itself from U.S. economic assistance by $120 million a year; in 2 years there will be none.) Egypt now receives more money from the U.S. than Israel does. Bush also requested $350 million in economic assistance for the Palestinian Authority.
Liberals are, in general, still huge Israel supporters; and from the other perspective, a large majority of American Jews are liberals/progressives and Democrats. It is true that the left fringe seems to be motivated to support the ‘underdog’ in any situation, and the Palestinians have done an effective job capitalizing on that with a PR campaign over the last decade. Now the Palestinians have portrayed themselves as the underdog vis-a-vis Israel, whereas 25 years ago everyone understood Israel’s tenuous position in the Middle East. Unfortunately, some left-wing Palestinian sympathizers go a step further and, believing Palestinian rhetoric and propaganda demonizing the Jewish state, turn against Israel (or worse, against Jews in general). I wonder what the far left-wing Israel-bashers and the far right-wing Neo-Nazi Jew haters think of each other. Hmm.
Misinformed opposition to Israel and its policies (e.g., the separation barrier fence) I can understand. What I have a harder time grasping is what to make of fundamentalist right-wing support for Israel, based on their desire to have all the Jews return there so that Armageddon can get started, or something along those lines. Support for Israel I appreciate, but I’m not so sure about the baggage that goes with it in some cases.
You guys (libs, i can’t use the historically honorable word progressive, which you ain’t) are nuts if you think the right wing supports Israel for messianic reasons (ok, some 1/10 of 1 percent). But as a card carrying right winger, i think its more cuz the Israelis talk tough and take no crap. Plus I think a fair amount of Christian guilt for what our bros did 70 years ago (and more earlier). Call it enlightenment.
thanks for using nazi in the right way, not ad-hominem on anyone who goes to church.
I think today’s Horsey cartoon sums it up pretty well.
Nice background. Regards :)
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