[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKI9be55N00&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Apparently, most Republicans believe there is no fundamental right to health care, but there is a fundamental right to profit extravagantly off selling private health insurance. And that is their main opposition to a public option… that it threatens the profitability of private insurers.
Considering a person can go a lot longer without healthcare than they could without food, shouldn’t the argument be made that we have the “fundamental right” to food?
If food was a “free government food” program, would anyone ever choose the generic brand, a lower grade of meat, or overbuy without concern for waste?
Goldy, Goldy, Goldy–
Once again you struggle to frame the argument GREEDY REPUBLICANS vs. COMPASSIONATE PROGRESSIVES….
This is mighty shallow of you.
I believe their should be lots of competition in the Private Health Insurance Sector.
I believe they can keep premiums down and be negotiating with Drs. Hospitals & Drug companies to do so. Consumers are lazy and need to insist on this. Consumers are too blame for the current situation too.
We also need to insist on Tort Reform…Price-Waterhouse-Coopers has done a study showing the cost of lawsuits and resulting unnecessary tests is upward of 9%. That’s a huge line item that should not be ignored.
We should also insist on ZERO healthcare coverage for illegal aliens unless it is LIFE-THREATENING.
We should also insist on higher deductibles and co-pays to flush out the chronic folks who clog medical facilities.
There are lots of things that can be done short of Socializing another 1/6 of the economy Goldy. For the LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS, this is not about Health Care Reform…it’s about the onward march of Socialism.
Goldy & Obama’s pal 6-time Socialist Party Presidential Candidate Norman Thomas said:
I have never heard Goldy or any of the LEFTIST PINHEADS address straight on how we the people are gonna pay for this and the long-term economic consequences of your “genorosity” with other peoples money.
Obama’s right-hand man Geithner spilled the beans on liar Obama…of course the middle class will have to pay for this with tax increases!
The money has to come from somewhere.
Free Healthcare is not a right.
It’s the responsibility of each American.
And we all believe you, of course, your credibility here is paramount!
Heh.
The message from the right wingers like Stamn and Mr. Klynical to people who ARE INSURED and have the temerity to get sick?
DIE!!!!! – for the CEO’s 3.2 million dollar salary.
DIE!!!! – for the CEO’s 7 million dollar + mansion.
DIE!!!!! – for more and more tax cuts for the CEO!!!
DIE!! DIE!!! DIE!!!!
Enjoy your next tea bagging fiends.
Tea baggers and birthers gone wild at townhalls support abortions outside the womb..
to preserve insurance exec salaries, stock options, private jets, yachts, mansions and low, low taxes…
Stamn – thanks for demonstrating how stupid you are once again.
You support obscene profits for the insurance industry.
You can’t even make an appropriate analogy…dear moron Stamn – did you not even view the video?
The woman was on TPN (Total Parenteral Nutrition) and the insurance company denied her coverage. She would have died within a day for lack of nutrients and yet you say something so damn stupid as this:
Considering that you are an absolute moron, an uncaring, unchristian ideologue who puts rich insurance company executives over people WITH health insurance who need the company to come through for them….well, enough said about your lack of ethics and morals.
You are an embarassment to real people with real religious beliefs.
@2: Greedy Republicans? Klynical fool? That is your interpretation….
No, Goldy just pointed out that republicans think the current system is just fine – and oppose a public option.
If the private insurance companies are so great – why can’t they compete with a public option that doesn’t pay executives obscene salaries and squeeze their own customers so they can’t get legitimate coverage?
Yeah, some good christians they are….we don’t cover TPN since it is not a medical necessity…so just die.
In the meantime, where is that yacht, mansion and obscene stock option for the CEO?
1 MS
We already have it. It’s called “food stamps.” Idiot.
Also, we already have government-run health care. AMong other programs, the best-known is called Medicare. It has higher satisfaction levels than private insurance, runs on a 1.5% overhead cost, and a recent bill to cancel the program gathered not a SINGLE VOTE in Congress.
If private companies can’t compete as they are with the big, stupid old government, then they’ll have to INNOVATE. Cut costs. Lower CEO pay. Offer better service. Offer higher lifetime limits. Offer portability across employers. Offer something that is more compelling to their customers–just what you guys are always telling us that capitalism, and in particular exceptional AMERICAN capitalism, is SOOOOOO good at.
But what they have to offer is high prices, monopoly, recission, and pre-existing condition exemptions.
Funny thing about competition–it ALWAYS lowers prices. Which is why high-profit companies are not in competitive markets. The goal of a company, to increase profit margin, is to REDUCE competition. We’re just changing the game, and tilting it toward the consumer. Let the innovation begin!
Respectfully, it isn’t as simple either as socialist medical care or greedy corporate executives.
Yes, insurance is a business. It isn’t a business which conservatives asked for though. It is one which unions struck for as part of a workplace compensation package. Once in place it of course ran out of control. Insurance is always a gamble that whatever is being covered will cost less than whatever investments the company is making pay out. Lately this has been a sucker bet, as insurance companies can only invest in certain risk categories, all of which have been performing poorly.
What Republicans object to in the public option is what they perceive as the death of private health care in this country, and all that it provides. It is a patent impossibility that a ‘for profit’ company can ever compete with a ‘not for profit’ government entity which also makes the rules governing the industry.
Goldy was honest about this at one point in saying that this is the thin end of the wedge. In 2 years or 10 private insurance won’t any longer exist in this country. Progressives will tout this as the triumph of a free market, and push the socialized option as the only one left.
What follows? Who will innovate in medical technology if we follow Europe into socialized fixed price medical care? Not the US any longer, there won’t be the money. Who will perform R&D on new lifesaving drugs if we fix prices on pharma? Not US companies. As it is US consumers already pay higher prices to subsidize set prices in Canada and Europe. There just isn’t anyone left to bear these costs if we go socialist too.
Health care will be more egalitarian? Don’t bet on it. Those who can will use private and qualified physicians who will avoid the public system like the plague. Before pushing the public option you folks should talk to people who have used some form of it about the quality of care they recieved. Progressives claim to be the champion of the downtrodden. Talk to them for a change. See how they feel about the lackadaisical care they recieve on medicaid.
I don’t say the system doesn’t need reformed. Just that this reform is ill thought out, too expensive and being pushed too fast to cover those facts.
Bitter little ylb.
If someone dies, how does that put money into the pockets of a CEO/Insurance company that the dead person never paid into?
If it’s as simple as paying the CEOs, why not a government program to pay CEOs, problem fixed.
Of course, ylb will still be hateful and bitter about those CEOs even if everyone had health insurance.
I guess you could say that since I pay for my own health insurance. Do you pay anything for your own health insurance? If so, wouldn’t you also be supporting obscene profits for the very people you hate?
I’m neither for nor against obscene profits if I have a choice to use their product/service.
So How ’bout I steal your money then. Pay ME for your health coverage and I’LL deny the ccoverage. You’ll be happy and I’ll be wayyyy happier.
What a dumbshit.
Silly Stamn. Ignorant Stamn. The insurance companies want money going in and little to NO money going out – that means, for the benefit of your small mind, CLAIMS BEING DENIED.
How else can CEOs get multi-millions in compensation and live in mansions?
Everyone dies eventually. It’s those who get SICK insurance companies could care less about.
I don’t think the marvin or his BFF colsandersfavoritechicken have the slightest idea about how business works now.
Hey Dipshit for brains@14, Puddy is a small bidnessman. WTF are you besides a ignorant moron? Beside KFC chicken is great. If Michael Jackson and Magic Johnson liked for dinner it is has to be good fool! So you better not eat it anymore. How will the junior ignorant moron feel?
You are the densest dumbest tard on this board. You more dense than NutsTooTight and dumber than clueless wondermoron. That’s saying something…
re 9: You think insurance companies do medical research with their ‘profits’?
Their profits come from denying medical care. You are such an innocent, deluded chump.
Re 16:
Insurance companies of course don’t do research. And ‘profits’ doesn’t ‘need’ to be ‘singled out’ with ‘silly’ punctuation. I realize the left thinks that the bare idea of profits is an obscene one, but most of us don’t. Insurance companies insure patients. They deny care when the terms of the policy don’t cover the care. They deny coverage for pre-existing conditions just like an auto insurance company won’t cover a collision that happened prior to the policy date. A line has to be, and will be, drawn in any coverage of health, government or private. Just a question of who’s drawing the line.
And you might answer the other points. Who will pay for pharma research when your socialist president takes the profits from doing so?
What hospital or university barely surviving on government established rates for care will have anything left to perform research?
Ever talked to someone on medicaid? I know one person who was misdiagnosed by a bored medicaid doctor. No good doctors would deal with the government, so she had to travel out of town to see this one. She lost the use of her hand because the lazy socialist doctor couldn’t be bothered to pay attention to her patient. Shades of care to come…
I don’t like the insurance companies involved in my day to day health either. That was a progressive idea, to link health care to jobs. It was a union idea, not a conservative one.
“Ever talked to someone on medicaid?”
Silly italics aside, bad doctors are lazy socialists? What’s a good doctor? A fucking energized fascist?
So chickenshit for brains here doesn’t get the “chicken voting for Colonel Sanders” thing. That’s ok…we know he’s mind-numbingly stupid.
What the point of all this is that virtually every Western Industrialized country and almost all our Asian competitors’ subsidize health care. Their businesses and workers are not forced to pay for it directly. This you fucking morons is an issue that effects the global competitiveness of the US. How fucking hard is that to understand.
The ONLY ones in this little scheme that are making out are the insurance industry and pharmacutical industry EXECUTIVES. Do you all really care THAT much about a handful of really really rich bastards…’cause THAT’s who you’re fighting for.
You guys wonder why we think you’re so stupid.
Wonder no more.
PS…Mr. Knowitallwhocan’t/wontanswerLeeandDarryl’squestions:
Why the FUCK won’t you answer Lee and Darryl?
This idiotic concern troll has no fucking idea what he’s talking about.
The United States taxpayers subsidise medical research. Then Big Pharma writes off the R&D costs and charges an arm and a leg (pun intended) for the finished product. The best healcare system money can buy…the insurance companies bought it…bought the legislators, on BOTH sides of the isle (as we are seeing now) and us suckers are paying for it.
Watch Michael Moore’s Movie you stupid fucks…get a clue!
PS-lostinhisownasshole-
US consumers pay higher prices in this country because the Congress lets them get away with it.
@8…Daddy love, the one thing you forget about comparing govt vs private insurance companies is that the govt does not have to turn a profit, govt does not have to meet a budget, and govt does not have to worry about going bankrupt.
It is unfair to pit govt vs private industry in this manner. The govt will always win the battle because they do not have make any money – they dont even have to break even. A private company can only lose money for so long, while a govt entity can lose money forever.
Doesnt matter if its healthcare or making widgets, you can always be the cheapest guy on the block if you never have to turn a profit – or even break even.
@9…excellent post.
Notice how not a single lemming progressive is able to retort to lostinaseaofblue’s posts….
govt run health care will be a hell on earth – and a damned expensive one too.
whats next? Govt run food production? After all, we cant have people going hungry can we? No more big evil agri corps…
BTW, how much medical research does canada do? answer: not much, its too expensive. easier to have the Americans do it.
@ 24
Lost At Sea’s blathering didn’t really need much of a response, but, if you want one, try reality instead of Lost’s fantasies.
rudeASS, Puddy don’t take orders from you clunker. Butt you forgot to answer the question
Now we all know who the junior ignorant moron is don’t we senior ignorant moron?
LostInASeaOfBlue: When Don Joe offers a web site always always check it out…
Puddy knew he had read about these “doctors” before. Puddy just had to look it up again.
“PNHP is a fringe physician group that advocates for a single-payer health system.”
“I’ve always thought they should compromise their stance on a single-payer system, which has next to zero chance of being passed. In fact, as I noted previously, influential Democrat Max Baucus “wasn’t going to waste his time” on the idea.”
Notice they claim 50 million uninsured. Puddy already deeeeeeeeeestroyed the 47 million uninsured number used by “the messiah” with FactCheck.org.
Wait for it… NutsTooTight will be around soon with his “facts” not even used by “the messiah” or his “disciples”.
Recently MR and MRS Puddy met some peeps from Toronto area. They claim to have the best Canadian medical service in all of Canada. Recently one had to have an MRI done. They still had to wait weeks for it.
Butt wait… it’s just another anecdotal story per NutsTooTight…
Did ya see the video clip of Paul Krugman and the Canadians when he discussed their health care system? Oh wait it’s anecdotal too…
17 Insurance companies do research all the time. My brother did actuary work and on the side with all his computer “power” just for fun realized that liberals cause more than double the amount of traffic accidents than a conservative. He brought this to the attention of his bosses and they were afraid to announce such a finding to the public so they buried it. Go to the wrecking yard, liberal bumper stickers have damage on the front of the vehicle, conservatives have damage on the rear of the vehicles. This is why nanny blue states want to ban cellphones while driving. Liberals are too stupid to drive and talk at the same time. Kinda funny, but true.
@2 “Once again you struggle to frame the argument GREEDY REPUBLICANS vs. COMPASSIONATE PROGRESSIVES….”
Yes, that’s pretty much how it shakes out — not just on healthcare, but on pretty much everything — which is why our party is in power and yours isn’t. The GOP is so far out of sync with the needs of most Americans that a person has to hate himself and his own family to vote Republican. All you guys have left is your wedge issues.
Does anyone know what chickenshitforbrains is talking about?
Oh…Magic and Jacko ate KFC so that means it’s ok. Fine.
The dumbshit doesn’t get that: He is known as the Chicken Who Votes for Colonel Sanders. Colonel Sanders (when he was alive but now rhetorically) KILLS CHICKENS.
If chickens could think, and if there was such thing as a “sane” chicken…they would RUN the other way if they saw the Colonel coming.
Our dim-bulb known as the stupidestfuckingchickenonthestupidfuckingchickenranch just doesn’t get it. Doesn’t get the joke, doesn’t get that he is not informative (well maybe to shine a light on what the “freepers” are saying so we don’t have to kill brain cells reading their drivel), not funny, not right (and never never ever willing to admit it), and too fucking goddamn lame to answer a simple question from two commenters who patiently (and that was literally HOURS of their lives they will never get back-btw) destroyed every single silly dumbass argument this silly dumbass made in an almost 400 post thread.
And this load of crap calls me dense…well if my density is plastic, yours is fucking titanium.
And worst of all pud for brains, you’re boring. Boring as hell. Mind-numbingly boring. Boring as your main man George W. Boring as the Oreo Man.
BOOOOOO-RING.
And you still won’t answer a simple question will you. ‘Cause you could be wrong. And the big bad man just can’t be wrong, can you big bad man…
“Yes, insurance is a business. It isn’t a business which conservatives asked for though. It is one which unions struck for as part of a workplace compensation package.”
Not quite. The truth is that health insurance was instituted by World War 2 employers as a way to compete for scarce labor when wages were frozen by wartime wage-price controls. It proved so popular that postwar employers made it a standard feature of compensation packages. Then, when conservative political ascendancy ushered in the era of wage cuts and benefit takeaways, unions fought to keep their hard-won wage and benefit gains, in some cases going on strike when employers offered labor contracts that were simply unacceptable. So, the reality is that conservative businessmen started the health insurance phenomenon to further their business interests, and instigated labor unrest by trying to take away workers’ health benefits, again in furtherance of their selfish interests.
@32 (continued) And this policy wasn’t just selfish, it was stupid, because 70% of the U.S. economy depends on consumer spending; most consumers are wage earners; and when you cut wages and force workers to pay more for health care, you undermine their ability to spend, and by doing so business is cutting its own economic throat.
@22 So what you’re saying is government-run health care will always be a better deal for consumers because government doesn’t have to pay multimillion-dollar executive salaries, doesn’t have to earn a 20% return on investment for shareholders, and doesn’t price its product as high as the market will bear. Sounds like a winner to me! You just made the case for government-run healthcare.
Why not privatize the military and wars? Instead of government-run armed forces, let’s disband the Pentagon and hire mercenaries to provide our defense. But I would go even farther; paying for wars should be voluntary and should be privatized, too, so that those who want to, say, invade Iraq are given the option of “buying” the war, just as Republicans want people to have a free choice about buying health care at market prices, or not. Think of the possibilities! Only those who want wars would have to pay for them, and if warmongers can’t raise enough money to pay private contractors to fight their wars for them, the wars won’t happen. If it works for health care, why shouldn’t it work for wars, too? Hmmm? How about it, wingnuts? Are you willing to finance your wars the same way you want us to finance our health care? If not, why not? If we don’t have a right to health care, why should you have a right to your wars? Hey? Well?
@29 Which wingnut rumor mill did you get that nonsense from?
Rabbit @ 34:
That is the logical end to that argument. Every time. The only way they win is to cheat.
So now “competition” is a bad thing.
Whatever.
It’s pretty funny that the U.S. Military has socialized medicine. The doctors are employed by the VA System just like the Brit Doctors are for their system.
Nobody is talking about that in Congress and these right wing idiots are calling it “socialism”.
Is any wingnut talking about private insurance for service men and women?
America hating fiends.
Dear moron, lostinaseaofignorance
You said:
umm, guess you never heard of the NIH, dimwit? Most of the seminal research is done by scientists on the government dole. Big pharma just leaps on the moneymaking opportunites, bribes the docs, pushes their way through a lax FDA and adds another drug that does the same thing most of the time…but that fattens the profit line of the company.
Then we end up paying almost double for the same drugs that other nations pay less for.
When the drug goes off patent they come up with a newer “better” drug and get the doctors to go for that one.
How stupid are you?
and yes, I think it obscene for health insurance companies to make obscene profits and deny coverage to needy people:
Maybe you don’t have an actual conscience or care about people who need health insurance….but the facts are that we spend more than any country on earth and get lousy care for it.
Our infant mortality rate is higher than Cuba’s – and they are broke. That is embarassing. So are your putrid opinions and lack of facts.
Oh and by the way – a public option is not single payer – butof course you could not tell the difference anyways, since you have no clue about actual facts.
Oh and Puddy: I already destroyed your numbers: plain wrong and false:
If you even went to factcheck – your numbers were wrong on that site…..the lesson is always to go to Puddy’s links because he can’t read his own links or understand them.
I especially like the time he quoted a rightwing source on climate change and gave ref’s – and the ref’s refuted what he was saying.
Hahaha…no credibility for Puddy. You need to check your false sources before you spout off Puddy.
He just parrots what he hears on rightwingnut sites.
@29: Mark
Wow, do you have any citations for the absolute crap you are putting out there?
guess you go to a lot of junk yards…is that where you get your pets? Maybe that is where you get your cars? Maybe that is where you work because you sure do put up a lot of junk….
What a maroon….
@34..LMFAO…not quite. You do realize, that the money has to come from SOMEWHERE dont you? What it means is that the govt can run as inefficient as it wants(or is designed) to, because there is never a bottom line or budget to keep in line with or to meet…..you know, that whole competition thing you seem to keep forgetting about.
geezus, catch a clue FFS.
@35…you, like most progressives, keep forgetting that little piece of paper known as the Constitution….why is that?
Therefore your analogy is poopoo.
@37…you obviously do not own a business – probably not even lower management, otherwise you would see how idiotic your conclusion is.
You cant compete with an entity who does not need to meet a budget, make a profit, has the ability to change all the rules, or who CAN PRINT ITS OWN MONEY.
go back to making mochas and saying “would you like a pumpkin spice latte today?”…
@38…what would you like to socialize(or nationalize) next? food production? energy production? condom production?
where does it end? whats next?
Name one drug developed into a commercial product by the NIH, FDA, CDC or any other government agency.
You can’t. The closest you might come is development at State Universities, funded by NIH, usually in cooperation with Big Pharma.
NIH – Basic research
FDA – regulation of the process
CDC – End user of drugs, basic research
@38
You want everybody to suffer through the VA? Their hospitals suck, their care is embarrassing to anyone who values veterans. The horror stories of VA care are legion.
But facts don’t matter in your cozy little fantasy land.
Moron.
@39 “Then we end up paying almost double for the same drugs that other nations pay less for.”
Where do you think the development for those drugs was done? The US pays for the bulk of drug development for the world. The reason drugs are cheaper in Canada and Europe is because they force the drug companies to lower their prices to sell into those countries. Forcing the US consumer to subsidize their share of the costs.
Drugs are routinely counterfeited in the 3rd world. The Indians and Chinese ignore property rights and just make knock-offs of the drugs locally.
How are you going to pay the $800 million to $2 billion for the next drug.
http://www.america.gov/st/busi.....33981.html
WTF did that moron say @31?
Maybe Pelletizer can translate. The Puddy Libtardo Decoder Ring overheated on that gibberish.
Hey NutsTooTight,
Stepbrother is a MD, PHD in their cardiology group. He’s got other degrees too. Been there for almost three decades. Where do you think Puddy gets some of his “anecdotal” evidence moron? Where do you think Puddy gets info on guvmint activities from idiot?
So everyone can see NutsTooTight is a bald face liar here is FactCheck again.
So everyone can see NutsTooTight is a bald face liar here “the messiah” claimed the nation United States has 12 million “undocumented aliens” during his campaign.
So everyone can see NutsTooTight is a bald face liar here the Census Bureau’s CIS estimates illegal aliens, estimates 15% to 22%. So that’s 7-10 million illegals. Butt “the messiah” claimed 12 million and he’s always right.
So everyone can see NutsTooTight is a bald face liar here is The CBO says – 45% of the 47 million are are not American citizens.
And the age demographics:
29.3% of the 47 million are between 18 – 24.
26.9% of the 47 million are between 25 – 35.
8.5% of the 47 million make $75,000 or more yearly.
Butt wait there’s more…
Butt wait there’s more…
Puddy places his sources. NutsTooTight places BULLSHITTIUM all over the HA Libtardo pages.
Butt this is the kicker for NutsTooTight:
And then NutsTooTight claimed Puddy had wrong info on global warming…
…the jackass really is insane.
Nice to know you support United Health Care for our men and women in uniform.., i.e. CLAIM DENIED – MEDICALLY UNECESSARY!!!!
Go ahead and tea bag for it – maroon!
I think we need a new word in our dictionary: Puddificate. It’s both a verb and a noun:
v. When someone attempts to pontificate on trivial matters about which he is woefully ignorant; an effort remarkably similar to the Puddy Parade of Partial Punditry.
n. The effluence of puddification; an output resembling steaming piles of fecal material.
In this latest installment of puddification, we have Puddy dismissing the entire Physicians for a National Health Program organization, which has conducted, and published in well-respected medical journals. mounds of research into the status of health care in the United States. Puddy’s dismissal is based on two points:
1) Puddy found someone else, an individual blogger, who dismisses PNHP as a “fringe” group of physicians.
2) Attributes an individual estimate of 50 million uninsured to the entire organization, and claims to have destroyed such a claim through various forms of rhetorical sleight of hand. The latter attempt is repeated in Puddy’s comment @ 50.
Puddy’s point #1 is laughable on its face. Not only is it pure ad-hominem, Puddy doesn’t even bother to try to establish the credentials of the person whose opinion he’s citing.
Puddy’s point #2 is worse. First, Puddy’s quibbling over an estimate that, in some case is rounded up from an older 47 million figure, or, in others, is an estimate that attempts to take into account the fact that we’re presently in the deepest recession this country has seen in decades.
Second, Puddy doesn’t provide a specific cite for us to even know the context of the claim he purports to debunk. The duplicity in Puddy’s behavior is obvious: he’s quibbling over the lack of precision in someone else’s estimate while, himself, being woefully imprecise in his own attribution.
Lastly, Puddy has not attempted to, indeed he cannot even hope to, refute the mounds of other factual claims made in a variety of reports on the PNHP web site–claims that are far more germane to the overall healthcare debate than claims about the total number of uninsured people in the United States.s
For example, on the site that I linked earlier, we find this discussion of medical research:
and this discussion of bureaucracy:
Puddy has offered absolutely no, as in zip, zilch and zero, refutation of the factual claims in these two citations. And there’s a lot more on just the web page I linked.
Puddificate. It’s what Puddy does.
Puddy:
You are either too damn stupid to do math and read or just a bald faced liar, period.
You say:
Fact check says:
Your numbers are worng and you lie.
Idiot! You can’t even read your own sources right.
What an embarassment you are!
And then Puddy cites more “evidence”:
A website by a nonscientist, quoting other non-scientists?
Hahahaha, you fool. That was exactly what I criticized you for before – non-scientific so-called evidence.
You are losing it. The fewer facts you have the more desperate you become and the more names you call people.
Sad. Psychotic.
You need meds.
SeattleJew–
What is the matter with you? How can you ignore all the legitimate issues raised squealing like a stuck pig “No Rational Responsible Debate”
I posted this this AM-
I also posted the Price-Waterhouse-Coopers study on waste in the system here:
http://www.pwc.com/us/en/healt.....cess.jhtml
It tells you that “Defensive Medicine” is the #1 waste! That is a result of tort.
You have to click the PDF file on this web page and it will give you all the details.
Haven’t you ever heard of this study??
Apparently anything and everything someone brings to you, no matter how well documented, is unworthy of your thoughtful consideration.
You look rather sophomoric SJ.
Why not address my points and the PWC study and stop your one-sided banter.
After all, wasn’t it you who keeps whining for a responsible debate??
Start debating my friend!
Don’t just love how Don Joe twists the truth?
Does anyone see the number 50 million in post #50? See how this moron loves to twist facts? He does it all the time too.
No Puddy found this group is totally ignored by Max Baucus. Too bad Don Joe skips the real truth! Then there is this whopper
Can anyone tell Puddy how many links Puddy supplied. Or how many times Puddy has discussed this?
Don Joe, contact clueless wondermoron. He has every post Puddy has placed on this topic. Also since “the messiah” continues to use 47,000,000 (47 million Don Joe) why does Puddy have to give references to anything “the messiah” discusses? It’s all public record. You see it every day in the libtardo MSM. Butt as always Don Joe is a prima facie fool!
SInce Don Joe already covered my “an individual blogger” who is a doctor, ummmm Don Joe FactCheck is is laughable? What a retard.
So the US Census imprecision is being debunked when Puddy uses “the messiah’s” own words? Is this Don Joe a real retard or naturally moronic every day? Don Joe Puddy used “the messiah’s” words. Grow up fool!
Isn’t this guy Don Joe confusing. When someone uses lastly, it’s about the last point or summary. Notice this fool goes back the PNHP. He can’t even create a cogent argument. And you HA Libtardos hang off of every word from this fool!
Nuff SAID!
Puddy says something stupid again:
Is that supposed to be evidence?
You are sinking even lower.
Don’t you even know how to construct a logical argument?
Don Joe just plastered you, and all you have is that weak argument.
Give it up!
Hey Don Joe, where did Puddy discuss medical research? Where did Puddy discuss bureaucracy in Puddy’s post above?
Two Non-sequiturs again! You do this all the time Don Joe. You push BULLSHITTIUM not discussed by Puddy to continue to say “look at me” “look at me”. Puddy didn’t discuss either of those topics. Puddy went after PNHP which Senator Baucus IGNORED! Stay germane to what Puddy posted IN THE LINK if you are gonna try and tear it apart. You love to throw extra BULLSHITTIUM into any made argument to make yourself look good when the commentary isn’t about much of what you posted in yesteryear!
BTW the doctor you claim to tear apart is on your side Don Joe. Too bad you are too dense to figger that out too.
NutsTooTight is at it again
No Puddy didn’t say that at all fool. Try AGAIN!
Wait a minute, you went to FactCheck. They said
Wow NUtsTooTight Puddy did “lie”. The number is lower. Butt, Puddy uses the number voiced by “the messiah”. Can you dig it?
DHS claims there are 10.8 million illegals. FactCheck has these numbers, but Kaiser estimated lower. Since DHS is controlled by “the messiah’s” “disciples” why why does NutsTooTight argue with the “disciples”? Maybe cuz his NutsTooTight?
Even Wikipedia claims “The Illegal immigrant population of the United States is estimated to be about 11 million people” Again NutsTooTight is all alarmed when Puddy starts subtracting from the 47 million the 11 million illegals.
I already linked to the data that shows that about 1/3 of all AMERICANS under 65 did not have health insurance at some time last year.
The 2006 number are old, old and older. We all know the Bush economic disaster has put even more AMERICANS out of work and so even more people are running of of money to for COBRA or never started COBRA.
The latest estimates (that I have cited at least three times now) are closw to 68 million uninsured. A totally and completely unacceptable number of real Americans.
but Puddy doesn’t want to tax the people making over 350K so that poor and unemployed and laid-off people don’t have to needlessly die…
Instead, they shuold go to Puddy’s church for medical care…..ooops, his church doesn’t offer medical care.
What BS! Puddy claims to be a Christian but only wants the rich to get health care….just like in the gospels…..Jesus only loved the rich, right?
From the bible:
Regarding NutsTooTight’s other adventure in moronic global warming commentary Dr Roy Spencer is an ex-NASA scientist using NOAA satellites.
Dr Roy Spencer received NASA’s Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal for their global temperature monitoring work with satellites.
“Dr. Spencer’s research has been entirely supported by U.S. government agencies: NASA, NOAA, and DOE. He has never been asked by any oil company to perform any kind of service. Not even Exxon-Mobil.”
Again NutsTooTight ventures where no man has gone before the vacuum of space beyond da moon.
Where did Puddy say this moron?
NutsTooTight farts
Then why doesn’t “the messiah” and his “disciples” use these “new figgers”?
This is why NutsTooTight is an island in his own mind. He places “facts” but his own peeps don’t use them. Puddy uses the values used by “the messiah”.
See ya.
Puddy @ 58 puddificated:
Puddy @ 27 puddificated:
Back to Puddy @ 58
No shit.
Puddy says:
Yup, you did. It is a direct quote from above…
Again:
http://www.consumerwatchdog.or.....ryId=24210
What part of the facts don’t you get?
Because less than 10% or so of the unisured “may be” illegal immigrants or the kids of illegal immigrants…then we should, as a country, let all those people die if they have health problems?
Is that what you are saying?
Hard to tell what you are saying between all the lies and obfuscation.
All I get is that you think things are great now in this country….the fact that we pay more than anywhere else in the world and get on par with Slovenia.
I guess that is OK with you. The latest CBO estimate is that health care as proposed by the democrats with a public option and tax on the super rich will be revenue neutral over 10 years.
It is OK to waste 1 trillion on an unecessary war in Iraq. But not OK to balacne the budget, cut the ridiculous health care costs and not cost a dime over 10 years while covering everyone….that is your stance?
just to be clear….
Puddy @ 60 puddificates:
I just got done pointing out that Puddy has not addressed those issues, and now Puddy is asking me where he has ever discussed those issues. Puddification at its best.
Dear Moron – these ar estimates. the numbers used are from the 2006 census – they are more solid.
If you can’t tell the difference between estimates and census numbers….well, maybe you need to go back to school to learn how to read.
Obama is using the census numbers.
You used factcheck and they did not verify the numbers you used. You cited a Wall street Journal article – again that is not a primary source.
Learn how to use primary sources. Learn how to read your own sources. Come back when you grow up and stop using rightwingnut sites, they are most often wrong, like you.
Is anybody else as tired as I am of Puddy spewing wingnut nonsense in the third person, along with his infantile namecalling and the phony ebonics?
How bout this for a sort of working definition of “puddification“:
n. insane, inaccurate, paranoid and delusional thread crapping.
???
uhhhhh….YESSSSSS.
NutsTooTight farts:
What did Puddy write in #50?
For all to see NutsTooTight are really tight tonight!
Don Joe the uninsured number is the number your friend NutsTooTight is so tightly wound around. Pay attention fool! Your preznit, “the messiah” and his “disciples” use that value as their hammer in every uninsured debate.
What planet does Don Joe hail from cuz it surely ain’t Earth. And this fool calls my posts puddification? Puddy calls Don Joe posts BULLSHITTIUM!
Hey Don Joe, you betcha Puddy don’t discuss medical research etc becuz it’s been discussed ad nauseum here before. Don Joe loves to recover material previously discussed because it allows him to feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel good.
Don Joe@66: Yep Puddy said it in #27 not #50. Good try.
Too bad you are now a numerical fool too.
NutsTooTight try again… http://cis.org/IllegalImmigration-ShiftingTide.
Too bad you are inherently stupid.
rujax! – dictionary definition.
STUPID and MORONIC.
NUFF Said!
gawd…puddy…just fuck you and your arrogant fucking attitude.
You are not ALWAYS right.
No one is.
What are you…twelve? Do you still knock over the table when you’re losing a board game?
How fucking immature can a person be?
Your demeanor here is a demonstration of a mental illness. You are sick.
Get help.
FactCheck used Kaiser numbers. Not Census numbers.
Too stupid NutsTooTight.
cnr–@62-
You are taking the leap from being charitable and caring for others (Biblical) to large, intrusive government (NOT Biblical).
The Bible speaks to us as individuals.
I’ve been at Safeway several times in my life where the person in front of me couldn’t afford their prescription…and I paid for it.
What if we all did that?
And no one is saying the system doesn’t need to be vastly improved. The Price Waterhouse Coopers study key findings said
The Left has this habit of making every solution to a problem “government” takeover.
That’s not why millions died to liberate us from overbearing government and preserve those freedoms.
It is very difficult to understand why so many (1/3) under 65 were uninsured. Some of it is circumstances and some is CHOICES. Right?
Hard to quantify the WHY?? But there are plenty of folks making good money that elect not to have health insurance. They are willing to take the risk and pay as they go.
You would have to look at each person’s budget and work ethic. If someone is lifestyle unemployed or underemployed…does Society owe them to support that choice??
I say no.
cnr–
Choices not to work hard or 2 jobs has consequences. We should not be funding such lifestyle choices, should we??
It’s very difficult tto understand how disconnected this asshole can be from the lives of average Americans today.
But here he is, folks…in all his twisted glory.
Of course you would be happy.
You would get something for free.
That’s why you’re a proud democrat.
___
Don’t forget to be good comrade and report me to your leader for dissenting. flag@whitehouse.gov
First payment’s due marvie-poo…fork it over…or I’ll send my teamster thugs out after you. BwaaaaHaaaaHaaaaa…
NOT!!!!! (dumbass motherfucker)
Puddy @ 76 puddificates:
One wonders what Puddy thought the word “repeated” in the following sentence meant:
Puddy @ 75 puddificates:
Which, of course, provides absolutely no explanation for what Puddy thought he was doing in his comment @ 27, though it sure looks like Puddy thought he was discrediting PNHP as a source for information regarding the health care debate.
I think we can add an astounding level of intellectual sloth to the core definition of “puddificate”.
Or because of their age don’t believe they need life and health insurance yet. The hunington hospital in south pasadena closed their trauma center because so many young uninsured males would crash their motorcycles on angeles crest highway and skip on their bills.
Left-wingnuts always tell us how many people don’t have insurance, but NEVER tell us of how the data breaks down. I wonder why.
Is Puddy going soft?
Calling him STUPID and MORONIC is so politically correct of you.
Good Ol Don Joe. There he goes again
He cobbled together this phrase…”it sure looks like Puddy”… Puddy didn’t discredit PNHP, Max Baucus and the doctor did. Too bad Don Joe has reading is fundamental issues. Post @27 was about PNHP. Post 50 discussed FactCheck without PNHP. So how does Don Joe do it? He conjures up “facts” not found in previous posts and most HA Libtardos fall for it. Not Puddy.
Everybody return to post #66 and see if the word “repeated” is anywhere in da Don Joe post. Yep, he tries to call them but he can’t see them.
Klynical: that fact that you encourage a society and system where this happens:
Explains why you have no morals.
Other countires don’t do this. Other countries value the health of thbeir citizens and don’t put it in the hands of a profit seeking beurocracy that is more inefficient and spends more than any country on earth.
Your solution: fix it for one person.
My solution: fix it for all
Your solution: Selfish, self-aggrandizing and inefficient
The rest of the world’s solution: Obvious, caring and efficient
@77: Coming from someone who can’t even read or understand their own sources…..hahaha.
You have been crushed again.
The funniest part is you don’t even know it. We are laughing at your ignorance Puddy.
Oh, and the latest on global warming….here:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/robe.....175558.asp
The stuff you were quoting – wrong data, old and incorrect.
But keep it up, you keep putting out old, false material and someone might believe you…just not anyone who can actually read or think.
Puddy @ 89 puddificated:
The extent of the vacuum that exists between Puddy’s ears is truly amazing. So, Puddy thinks that Max Baucus discredited PNHP? It’d be good if Puddy actually provided a quote that shows this.
[I can predict Puddy’s response to this, but it’s really going to be too funny to watch. Grab your popcorn folks. Let’s see if Puddy’s smart enough to figure where he’s fucked up.]
Another Puddy fuck-up:
Puddy’s too stupid to search the web page. Ctrl-f (Cmd-f for us Mac users). Search for “repeated.” You’ll find the first instance of that word in this comment thread. It’s in one of my comments, but it’s not #66.
@92: Give it up, DJ. You can’t expect Puddy to formulate an actual logical argument.
Puddy will change the topic, claim he didn’t say it or call you a name…..
Rule #1: Puddy is NEVER wrong!
Rule #2: Anyone who says they are never wrong is schizophrenic.
Rule #3: Follows from rules #1 and 2.
cnr spews:
The rest of the world??
Are handouts and giving cover to folks who make bad choices really obvious, caring and efficient??
What it leads to is a welfare state for the pimps of poverty like Jesse Jackson and Obama.
Keep people dependent on government free stuff!
cnr=
Actually selfish is to solve problems WITH OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY–your solution.
Generous is to use your own hard-earned money.
Pull your head out of the clouds or the sand or your ass and think about it.
How can you possibly be generous solving a problem WITH OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY??
Puddy, whatsthematta with this KLOWNS??
A total idiot named Klynical (who does not work) says this:
Really! I suppose people choose to get sick (bad choice, huh), get cancer (sorry, you made a bad choice) or lose their job or coverage (oops, you were downsized, how stupid of you!)
Wow, you amaze me with your total ignorance. Thanks for proving what a complete moron you are!
Once again, a complete idiot says:
Umm, I pay taxes and work and you…..blog BS, maybe the rightwing nuts pay you.
Actually, the rest of the world has solved the health care problem. They have decided that it is ridiculous to leave something as important as health care in the hands of for profit companies.
Why would the company have any incentive except to save money at the expense of the sick person?
You make less and less sense.
We spoend more than any other country and ge less…doesn’t THAT tell you something about how inefficeint the system you are defending is?
I guess facts don’t matter to an ignorant fool like you.
Selfish is someone who defends not taxing people who make over 350K so that people who can’t afford life-saving meds can get them.
That is the choice you are making and it shows you lack compassion and any tyupe of real religious committment to the poor. Your committment is to the super-rich and to the bonuses for the health care execs.
thanks for showing where your heart truly lies….and how your lies support an injust suystem. If Christ were alive today, he would repudiate you and your ilk!
cnr–
I never said getting cancer or losing their job/coverage was a choice you lunatic!
We are talking about millions & millions of uninsured people. WHY they are uninsured is relevant. That requires significant analysis.
Getting cancer sucks. If you are insured when diagnosed, you have coverage.
If not…WHY NOT is the relevant question.
If you lost your job…something should be done.
If you chose not to work or chose not to buy insurance…why should you get a handout above and beyond what is done now??
cnr tries to lump all uninsured folks as “VICTIMS”. They aren’t. Some are victims of a bad decision to not buy insurance…and to buy other stuff.
Lots of folks think they are bulletproof under 65….millions are willing to take the risk.
Millions win the risk-taking challenge and save tens of thousands in premium by paying providers directly and getting cash discounts.
It’s THEIR choice!
Ain’t America great! You can chose to decide not to buy insurance. You can chose to not have a job and be underemployed.
What you Leftists can’t fathom is CONSEQUENCES for DECISIONS>
cnr is hopeless.
Do you have kids cnr??
Did you ever punish them for bad behavior?
Did you ever let them suffer from natural consequences of their actions??
It’s not about ignorance.
It’s all about enabling!
Wrong again, moron:
Learn to read:
The
).
YOU cited factcheck….now you are disputing their numbers and what they say?
Thanks for being an ignoramus.
cnr spews:
You just showed you are absolutely insane!
Who in the heck would pay someone to post conservative thoughts on HorsesAss.org….
regular audience 5 conservatives and 15 Fringe Lunatic Lefty’s!!
And you say I’m a moron????
I’ve asked you before, I guess I ask after you leave the thread.
In the last 2 years, how much have you reduced your carbon footprint?
Taking public transportation or still driving a gasoline powered vehicle?
I’ve always wondered why those that are in most fear of man-made global warming are doing nothing until the government forces them to.
Walk the walk.
Too stupid to remember what you said?
Umm, most people who do not have insurnace can’t afford it or have lost their jobs.
Have you ever priced insurance?
Have you ever tried to get insurance with a preexisting condition?
Have you ever tried to pay for COBRA?
Have you ever been denied coverage for something you “thought” was covered?
Have you ever had the insurance company stall and not pay for “obviously” covered problems (like the woman with TPN that kept her alive)?
Your analysis is BS – once again. the poiint is that millions are not covered, that our system stinks, that we pay more than other countries and get less.
Have you addressed these problems?
do you have any real solutions?
Or are you just a demagogue who claims to be religious but really can’t stand poor people because they “don’t pull their weight”.
Christ would kick you out of his religion for your comments alone.
Stamn – Ok I’ll take the challenge if you tell me what you have done.
I bike to work 2-3 days a week (about a 50 mile round trip). On the days I have to drive in, I use my Prius at 50 mpg.
What do you do loudmouth? I would take public transit like I used to, but there is no damn train and the busses stink (they are too slow, I can get there faster by biking).
Oh, and I refrain from using CO2 to kick you sorry butt. Instead, I simply crush your pathetic right wing ramblings with logic and facts – the two things you are missing.
Don’t point out logic, write what they want to hear. They’re used to being lied to by their leaders (no new taxes on those under $250,000 until I raise the tax on those smokers as soon as I take office), they’ll believe anything, even something as vague as hope and change.
Yeah, I’m paid low 6 figures to blog here. And because it’s from a right-wing think tank, we don’t have to pay taxes on it. I get all my parking tickets dismissed AND I always get the best tables at the top los angeles restaurants.
cnr @103–
You seem to be saying that all 45.7 million of uninsured Americans under 65 are victims of something tragic…that none of them simply chose not to buy health insurance or to go uninsured??
That’s why I call you a KLOWN cnr.
You are being ridiculous.
Many millions have made a DECISION not to buy insurance that they could afford but made a budget/risk decision not to.
You’d have to look at each case but I can assure you plenty of those uninsureds go on nice vacations, work less than 40 hrs. per week, have Blackberry’s and lots of techy stuff, nice cars..et al.
Are you saying no one is uninsured by choice?
All are “victims”
Pathetic….and out of touch.
PS–
I have counseled (for free as a volunteer) plenty of folks with financial problems over the years. It has been almost always the result of excessive, DISCRETIONARY SPENDING!!
Going out to dinner 3-4 times per week.
Not taking lunch to work.
Too expensive of a car.
Too expensive of a home.
HDTV’s (I don’t even have one!)
$200/month cellphone bills
Beer/smokes/drugs
OVERUSE of credit cards..the biggest problem of all!!
The list goes on & on……..
Marvin @105–
cnr is such a humorless f*ck, he’ll probably send your post to Obama and rat you out!
Fringe Lunatic? Hmmmmm. Interesting..
Uh what happened June 2005 Klyn?
Then what happened Nov 2005?
Then what happened Nov 2006?
And then what happened Nov 2008?
Now a Latina sits on the Supreme Court and 31 Republican Senators sided with Pat Buchanan.
How popular is your ilk with Hispanics (who by and large are socially conservative)?
Not doing too well are you?
What we are really seeing here in the health care debate, or should I say mob rule events, is the one of the last gasp attempts by the RNC to revive itself before it dies.
Republicans have NO constructive ideas to add into the arena of public debate. They’re left with trying to raise false fears among the base to “protest” at these events.
If they succeed at turning back health care reform they’ll live to see another day.
If, however, and the more likely outcome, Democrats will ram health care reform through congress via the reconciliation process.
Once the public sees how badly Republicans were lying to them, that the health care isn’t rationed, isn’t “socialized” any differently than the Medicare they’re currently getting, and costs go DOWN while coverage and benefits go UP, no one but the hardcore of the hardcore base will vote Republican in 2010.
And, thus, start the death throes of the modern day Republican Party.
By the 2012 elections conservatives will be so desperate to maintain any national power, that I predict threats of violence, and then actual violence up to and including murder, by conservatives towards liberals at the polls in 2012.
Afterwards, the electorate will purge the last of the GOP from national politics and begin a multi-decade journey of absolute Democrat control.
The darkest hour is yet to come, but Democrats will prevail.
Wow, I just came back from my cabin and all of my original arguments remain unanswered in 108 posts. You folks really need to get the hang of this rhetoric thing.
Instead of gratuitous abuse, try actual point by point response. Oh sorry, that requires actually having an answer to the argument.
Who is going to pay the costs of R&D for either medical tecnology or pharma? I didn’t see a single answer to this, except some blather about the NIH. American consumers subsidize government set pharma costs in your workers’ paradises. American Universities and research labs invent new devices and techniques for use in hospitals. Of course, socialist governments immediately steal the new medicines, technology or processes and copy them without paying for them. No one will be left to do so once you ruin this country. I know that logic is tough for liberals, but try to follow this. If no one is paying for a job, it won’t get done.
Think it’s hard to get in touch with your health care insurer now? Once you do, is it difficult to get them to make rational decisions or indeed any decisions? Wait until it’s a bastardized version of the DOL.
And the US government swears that their computer systems are bulletproof, so patient privacy will be protected. Right. Sure.
Re:109
You really are delusional GBS.
What will really happen is that once Obamas’ lunatic leftist policies have made this country into a bananna republic with runaway inflation the reaction will be to steer clear of them for the next few decades.
You see, Seattle, New York and LA aside most Americans are individualists with no great love for big government. Once they realize the garbage can level of care provided by your presidents’ nutty ideas they’ll revolt in the next election. Once they realize how expensive and ridiculous this boondoggle for the incompetent in medicine is they will resoundingly vote out your talking head president and the idiots like the Speaker of the House and her nasty ilk.
It’s called pushback, and it is demonstrated time and time again in our political history.
There goes Don Joe again…
But it’s comment 66 that you went bonzo bozo! If you are going to attack Puddy, write something cogent. You refer to a post then when caught you forget what you post when you post it.
Don Joe is amazing.
NutsTooTight Here you go Charles Darwin
Interesting article…So he was off by 0.035°C per decade. 3 decades is 0.105°C NutsTooTight? Since the deviation stops at 2004, Dr Spencer discusses 2007 to 2009.
“As of 2008, our most stable instrument for this monitoring is the Advanced Microwave Sounding Unit (AMSU-A) flying on NASA’s Aqua satellite.”
Good try dude!
Don Joe farts
You are such a fool Don Joe. Why you’ll discredit that too.
Here’s something to chew on Don Joe:
On Thursday, March 5, 2009, the White House will host a summit on how to reform health care.
The 120 invited guests include lobbyists for various interest groups including the private insurance industry (AHIP), some members of Congress including Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, who has already ruled single payer “off the table,” and various others concerned with health care.
No single payer advocates have been invited to attend.
There are many more web sites which have his words too fool!
“Baucus, as chair of the Senate Finance Committee, has made health care reform his top priority this session. However, Baucus has consistently said single-payer – a system in which the federal government acts as the nation’s sole health insurance provider – is off the table.”
Sucks to be you!
On June 3, Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) met with national leaders of the single-payer movement and admitted that it was a mistake not to include single-payer advocates in his health reform roundtables. BTW Baucus on June 4th and he said no again. And this was telling http://leftinthewest.com/diary.....max-baucus
Finally NutsTooTight@94 understands.
NutsTooTight
By 0.105°C NutsTooTight in the tropics. Wow NOAA satellites were off 0.105°C. You really discredited Dr Spencer. OUCH such info from a “blog”.
Powerful. Biting. Strong. Descriptive.
And the fool
Puddy doesn’t disagree with FactCheck on the 47 million you do fool. Puddy disagrees with the # of illegal aliens in the 46 – 47 million number used by FactCheck. They use a Kaiser number which other guvmint sites give larger numbers. You are too dense to figger it out.
Pay attention fool!
BTW NutsTooTight is Dr Roy Spencer not a scientist? Is Dr Spencer using NOAA satellites? Is Dr Spencer recognized by NASA?
Would that be like the people that voted for the obama only because they were voting against bush/republicans?
I wonder why the people citing the 47 million number won’t cite the breakdown.
I’m guessing if America knew how many illegal immigrants were included the public would see less of a disaster in waiting.
Lost At 110 spews:
First of all, given the number of gratuitous assumptions you’ve made in your arguments, any abuse you might take here is far from gratuitous. It’s quite deserved.
Second, well, start with the link I posted at 25. Try responding to the points raised there without resorting to Puddy’s ad-hominem argument.
Puddy @ 112 puddificates:
No. Comment 66 is where I pointed out that Puddy had forgotten what he’d said in comment 27. Seriously, Puddy can’t even follow his own train of thought, and he expects us to follow it?
Puddy @ 114 puddificates:
Well, I did say that Puddy’s response was predictable. And, no, Puddy has not yet figured out where he’s screwed up. One wonders how long it will take before he figures out the somewhat subtle difference in meaning between the words “discredit” and “discount”.
Nah. Puddy won’t figure it out. But he’ll sure as hell call me a fool and or a moron. It’s what Puddy does when he can’t figure out where he’s fucked up his own argument.
Don Joe, what it comes down to is trust. Fundamentally I don’t believe the arguments in your post for the same reason you don’t believe the arguments in mine. We just don’t trust the source.
You trust government to be the solution to most problems in day to day life. In some instances you’re quite right. We don’t privatize the police or armed services because the resulting cost savings would be outweighed by social, legal and security concerns. We don’t privatize some kinds of professional or operator licensing for the same reason. Call it the commons or whatever you wish, but some things have to be handled by government.
I trust people at the individual level. I believe that put to it most people will buck up and do what needs done without government handouts. I think in fact that they will do it better than any government could, if they have to.
I think government is a necessary evil, with the emphasis on evil, which we endure to gain something we could not otherwise have. When the share of costs we bear outweighs the gain we realize it is simply rational to begin to feel a bit angry about it. We are asked to work 30%-50% of our working lives to pay taxes, depending on income. Because I’m careful and I work hard, for that I gain very little from my government. If I were lazy and incompetent, fathered children I couldn’t afford or made other bad choices I’d gain much more. This is the source of frustration liberals don’t understand, and I don’t know how to explain it more directly but you guys just don’t seem to get it.
I suspect the reason health care has reached such an emotional touch point is that people like me are sick of it. We don’t want to deny medical care, of course. But we’re sick of paying for every person without the basic common decency to try to take care of him or herself.
I might note that through all that I have rarely been insulting or vulgar to you folks. I have rarely answered ad hominem attacks with anything but reasoned arguments, though you may disagree with them.
Lost,
Wrong. No. Not even close. If you’re not going to bother to actually address the facts that I’ve pointed to, then why should I bother to wrestle with your fantasies about what I believe?
Don Joe such a moron. When they didn’t invite them to the March 2009, they were discredited. When he met them and chose not to agree he discounted them.
See ya.
Don Joe has the word REPEATED as a large anal suppository and it feels good to him. SO Puddy will once again make sure there are at least two REPEATED suppositories…
Butt Don Joe, Puddy never refered to PNHP again in post #50. So how can Puddy repeat that which Puddy discussed in #27 which has both PNHP and FactCheck with #50 which only refers to FactCheck?
Your mind is soooooooooooooooo twisted it’s laughable. You I M A G I N E stuff and then you make stuff up to cover your wild I M A G I N A T I O N! Show the world where Puddy used PNHP in #50.
It’s N O W H E R E fool! Keep your hope… ummm dope alive.
See ya. Puddy gonna see some bright sunshine.
dis·cred·it·ed, dis·cred·it·ing, dis·cred·its
– To cause to be doubted or distrusted.
They were not invited because their cause was doubted.
discount
Verb
– to leave (something) out of account as being unreliable, prejudiced, or irrelevant.
Their argument was irrelevant after meeting with them
Let’s start with the puddification @ 126:
I never said that Puddy was talking about PNHP in his comment at 50. The subject of the entire paragraph that Puddy quoted is the various estimates of the number of uninsured people in the US, which Puddy has just admitted was a subject he addressed in both is comment at 27 and his comment at 50. Clearly, Puddy doesn’t understand the meaning of the phrase “the latter attempt” in the sentence he quotes.
This is typical puddification. Apparently Puddy’s problem of reading comprehension is my fault. Nevertheless, Puddy’s entire blathering about my quoting him has been discredited. Puddy’s grasp of the facts is flawed.
Which brings me to Puddy’s effluence at 125 and 127. In particular, I should point out the definition Puddy gives for “discount”:
Puddy has cited Max Baucus’ statements regarding PNHP’s policy objectives. Those statements discount PNHP’s policy objectives, because Baucus’ regards that objective as “irrelevant”. Single payer is not likely to happen any time soon, and Baucus is probably quite right about that.
However, at no time has Baucus discredited PNHP’s grasp of the facts regarding health care, and Puddy has yet to produce one iota of evidence that calls into question the value of PNHP’s research into the issues.
Now, here’s where Puddy’s reading comprehension comes into play. At no point have I, or anyone else here, cited PNHP for the sake of their policy objectives. Lost At Sea has shown a very poor grasp of the facts regarding the state of health care in the US, and I referred to PNHP as a source of information not for any policy objective.
Thus, we can discount Puddy’s quotes of Max Baucus regarding PNHP, because those quotes are irrelevant to the value of PNHP as a source of information.
Now, note the distinction between the words “discredit” and “discount”. Puddy failed to grasp the meaning of what I’d said in the paragraph he quotes at 126, thus any factual statement that Puddy would make about what I’d said is discredited.
Puddy’s quotes of Max Baucus are entirely accurate in a factual sense, but they are irrelevant to the question of whether or not PNHP is a reliable source of information irrespective of their policy objectives. Thus, Puddy’s quotes of Max Baucus are discounted.
Re: 124
You missed the point Don Joe.
You don’t and won’t believe anything in disagreement with your position on this issue. Anything anyone conservative might say is automatically wrong.
I don’t believe much of anything you or the other Chavez leftists, like your president, say about this issue.
This won’t change. It is an issue, like the ‘right’ to murder babies, impossible of compromise.
Don Joe,
When Stupes used to sockpuppet as MWS, one of my favorite names for him was “Reading Comprehension Sucks”.
WOS or Wingnut Obsessions Suck was the primary name I used back in the day.
I just thought of WPS or Wingnut Paranoia Sucks. If only! Here comes WPS! again! Would have been cool…
You’re chickening out of an argument. Don Joe has challenged you to a debate and all you’re offering up are the same old right wing platitudes.
Project your fantasies somewhere else if you’re too tired for a fact based discussion of the issues.
@122 “One wonders how long it will take”
DJ, well, we already know that a thread with 400 comments won’t do it. You waste your time with Puddy but I sense that you at least have fun with it.
@ 129
You missed the point Don Joe.
No. No one here has missed your point. You want to have a fact-free debate. You want to have a debate where you are free to disregard whatever facts are inconvenient for the conclusions you want to reach. That’s why you’ve ignored, indeed refuse to even acknowledge, the many facts that people have adduced in this thread in answer to the questions you’ve asked.
Yours is an intellectual dishonesty of the highest order. You aren’t lost in a sea of blue. You are lost in a fanta-sea.
Hm… Looks like David Frum falls into Lost’s “leftist Chavez” category of political animals.