Job 9:23
When a good person dies a sudden death, God sits back and laughs.
Discuss.
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The poetry part of Job you should really do as lines.
I couldn’t quite believe that this was a bona fide bible quote – not being a regular bible reader. So I went here to gain some context.
And I read these preceding verses:
What this leaves me with is this: contending with overwhelming power can be utterly defeating, spiritually – though such resigned stoicism can be overcome.
It reminds me of a classic experiment that gave rise the to theory of learned helplessness.
Dogs were shocked electrically, and some had a way to stop the shocks, and others didn’t. The latter group, interestingly, when given the ability to stop the shocks, disregarded that and continued to ‘just take it’.
Again, from wikipedia:
There is an obvious object lesson here, and we’re witnessing groups of people in our streets refusing to ‘just take it’. Those verses above, when I read them, struck me as the attitudes of those that aspire to be our neofeudal lords – omnipotent, untouchable, without limit on thought or action, consequences be damned. We’re careening as a society toward profound asymmetry in wealth and power, and we’re all going to be Job if we don’t do something, and soon.
As for the Occupy Wall Street – the crowd, the protest is the agenda – the first step is not necessarily writing the manifesto, but rather finding the strength and the voice, disavowing the cynicism, disregarding the corporate media messages, leaning out the window and yelling, “I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take this anymore!”. Watch that video – that is EXACTLY what’s going on and what has needed to happen for a long, long time.
I was also struck, as I read those verses I quoted, that our right wing friends would likely read those same verses and think about a terrible, unresponsive, out-of-control government – taking and wasting without regard to the desires of the holy, downtrodden individual. And that might be indeed a valid perspective – though government is ours – we have a right and duty to participate in our government, each of us equally.
It’s the very processes that the right favors
– limiting participation in voting being the most corrosive voter fraud there is
– the flood of money into politics and the consequent warping of government to the desires of the few
– cynically playing on fear to disenfranchise whole segments of the population, and to loot the public treasury
– filling the government not with the best and brightest, but the most connected and beholden
These are the processes that make government a destructive, unresponsive behemoth. Their criticism is both cynically deceptive and self-perpetuating – and allows them to say, “See? Government is BAD, let’s shrink it and drown it in the bathtub” – and down the drain goes your Social Security, and Medicare, and the EPA, and the NLRB, and every other program and process that stood between our oligarchs and us ordinary people trying to get through life unmolested.
Well, fuck them.
God would vote Republican.
@3
Of course he would – the bible was compiled by a bunch of dudes way into authoritarianism – they don’t call them “Princes of the Church” for nothing. That their ‘god’ resembled them in behavior and attitude is no coincidence.
Organized religion – just another criminal, feudal scam to fleece the masses for the benefit of the few.
Lib Sci
Sigghhh ….
I wish folks like you would stop blaming all religion for the bad things about Christianity and Islam.
Religions are a lot more divers than you seem to understand and, I suspect, no better and no worse than any of the other aspects of organized human behavior.
What is bad is evangelical religion. In our own history the ethnic cleansing of native peoples was done in the names of Jesus just as the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Arabia was done by Mohammed himself. I do not know of any comparable behavior by Buddhists, Confuscianism, African, Japanese, Norse, or other religions.
The huge size of the evangelical religions .. Christianity and Islam .. reflects their histories of spreading the faith not by example (as is the norm for Judaism, Mormonism, and pre-Christian Roman religion, but by force. The symbolism of the cross as a long sword and the scimitar as a crescent should not be taken lightly.
America would be a far better place if the atheism and deism of the founding fathers hads not been overrun by the evangelism of Jackson and his successors.
Interesting that you speak of religious diversity. If you studied it long and hard enough you might just come to the realization that most of them are spouting pretty much the same thing, “Do as I tell you, not as I do.” Oh, and don’t forget to give them all your money as well….
Don’t believe me? Sit down with someone who is Moslem or Jewish who knows and is comfortable with their religion. Ask them to find the correlations between religions. It’s much easier and quicker than finding the differences, and it’s pretty eye-opening, but first your mind has to be open.
Mimi
You overstate what is common.
In Judaism, for example, there is no instruction to goyem (non Jews) and for Jews there is a set of rather strict laws.
In Buddhism, there is universal “truth” but the truth is not like Christian truth .. there is no “THIS IS THE TRUTH” rather there is a truth about insight and discovery.
As for your odd quote, I can (to use the Cajun phrasing) GARANTEEE YOU, that your quote is actually quite alien to Judasis. Central to all forms of Judaims is the concept of teaching by example while NOT telling non Jews what THEY should believe.
To turn your own worlds back on you. Don’t believe me? Sit down with someone who is Moslem , Jewish, Buddhist, Taoist, or Atheist who knows and is comfortable with their religion. Ask your question. I think you will find the Buddhist and the Unitarian will easily find what is common, not so much the others.
Personally, I think Wicca makes more sense than the Abrahamic religions. Bhudism and Hinduism are OK, too.
Brad Hicks (a former born-again Christian with a a deep knowlege of the Bible) has made a compelling case over the years for recontructed Hellenic paganism..
Multiple Gods keep each other a bit honest it would seem.
The one God, well, just read the freaking Old Testament – it’s a psychopath!
Just look at some of its followers in these comment threads.
I was reading Brad Hicks just a day or so ago and he wrote a few paragraphs about a Christian preacher who got in trouble for not preaching the Satanic Gospel of Wealth that some of our trolls clearly believe in with every fiber of their being.
http://bradhicks.livejournal.com/258401.html
Good read.
Did Everyone here about the Amish Gang? They are attacking their own for not being Amish enough. Right Wind Conservatives always have to hijack religion, makes you wonder what their Religion is all about and whether they conform to the teachings of their own Religion. Makes you not want to be part of the whole Cuntish Cult Organizations.
Puddy,
What do you think about what this Evangelical Republican defender of Mormonism says about Witnesses?
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/.....?hpt=hp_t2
I would add to this discussion, but Geoge Soros called and laid into me for going over my posting budget.
13
I get my talking points from Cass Sunnstein. Why do you get yours from George Soros? What’s going on here? Why do we on the left not all hear the same voices?
@8. Politically Incorrect spews:
“Personally, I think Wicca makes more sense than the Abrahamic religions. Bhudism and Hinduism are OK, too.”
I wish goyem would stop lumping us with the evangelical/post Roman religions. Their evils are not our and their misuse of the Torah certainly ought not to blamed on us.
Judaism is not at all what you seem to think it is. As one example , there is NO requirement in Judaism to believe in God, only (as in Buddhism) to follow a set of laws. Hinduism, btw, also has a list of laws .. as in Judaism m,any of these laws are, to say the least, outdated and immoral by modern humanist standards.
For that matter, if you like Hinduism, how about Mormonism? Even MORE Gods, an ongoing revelations system that is able to change truth at will, and no (so far) effort at forced conversion. Kind of a Disney approach, but it certainly seems to produce some nice people.
Maybe the real issue is whether the religion, whichever it is, enforces its rules? Wahabi Islam, for example is pretty through going about that. The smae can be said of a lot of forms of Buddhism and Judaism. I think Christianity tops the barrel for God=governance with their ideas about God writing the Constitution.
BTW,
What happened to the HA God this week? Is less than omnipresent or just uninterested in this thread?
Nuthin…
What do you thing about Michael Moore and Bill Maher making racist comments? Don’t tell me you missed them?
Or what do you think about Occupiers sending email to NY State Assemblypeople threatening to kill rich CEOa.
Sadly you’ve been silent on them.
Tired of playing two personas?
thing should be think…
Puddy,
Though everything else you post is, of course, utter nonsense, I don’t think the Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult. The Mormons are far closer to that category. The Witnesses are Christian, in my book. The Mormons? Not so much.
Whatever you believe, I an guarantee you that whatever reason God has not posted here today has nothing whatsoever to do with my being tired.
Even if I were God, why would that matter. Is truth dependent on who says it?
If that is true, how can you justify accepting as the word of God the collection of second, third, and more handed writings the Romans assembled as a “bible.?”
Seems to me that the test of any truth… whether called science or called religion must come form someplace other than the attribution at the bottom of the page.
As for the HA God, I always find it odd how you seem to avoid comment on what she or he writes here.
ON a different topic, I wonder if you are aware that there have actually been two messiahs that fit the Jewish description of a messiah? Neither of these was from Nazareth, BTW. So, if YOU claim to know the “truth” can you name the two messiahs who did fulfill Jewish prophecy?
Or does the truth matter?
on “CULTS”
Can ANYONE here tell me how to distinguish a “cult” from a religion?
Is it just the numbers? How many folks does it take to qualify for “religion” status?
Hmm Puddy calls the Owl folks “OCCUPIERS” .. anyone want to be how long it will be until he comes up with a more euphonious, more unpleasant epithet?
hmmmm … commie, pinko, atheistic, hippies, bums?
or maybe … unamerican, lazy, lefty,traitorous, dummocrats?
anybody for … Mao loving, free loader, job shirking, strret people?
It must be hard coming with anything quite a euphonious, as pleasingly disgusting as “tea bagger!”
I have it!
The occupy Wall Street crowd is adopting the OWL, just like the Tea Party adopted the snake symbol! Don’t tread on the yaller snake!
But OWLs are associated with the pagan Deity Athena! And Athena is the Goddess of Greece ..
So the OWL movement ought to be called Pagans!
Of course as a scientist, I am very aware that owls do not treas on snakes, they EAT snakes!
Larry King married a shikseh.
Feh!!!!!!!!!
Seems proud leftist has lost his mind due to liberalism is a mental disorder again if this is gibberish
and
Proud leftist is strangely quiet when leftist pinheads make comments like that. Did you miss this on DUmmies too?
It’s amazing how rujax was running around calling everyone who disagreed with Barack ObamAA+ a racist and let these comments pass!
Now go back and read the Balloon Juice comments like this one…
At least most of those leftist are level headed unlike you and your ilk here proud leftist! I bet headless lucy and whatever name of the day he uses was secretly laughing in the background!
BTW two of my neighbors are Mormons. Glad you don’t think they are a cult. We agree on one point in life.
I voted for the gay guy but got the straight guy. Sound really bigoted, not! Puffin you are grasping for straws
One thing we can ALL agree on…
…the puddypussy is a lame-brained idiot.
That “OWL” designation is particularly amusing and ironic here in the Northwest. I wonder if most of the folks participating in the “occupation” here are too young to remember the “Owl Party” organized more or less as a joke by bass player Red Kelly and his friends a while back. They used slogans like “We don’t give a hoot” and “Divided we rot, united we ferment” (Red at the time owned a bar in Tacoma), and among other things their candidate for state treasurer pledged that if elected she’d gather all the money in the state budget in one place, “just so we can all see what it looks like”.
SJ @ 15,
I lump Judaism, Christianity and Islam into the “Abrahamic” category because they all ahve Abraham mentioned in their sacred texts. Personally, I don’t think any one of them is any better than the rest.
As far as the Mormons go, they don’t matter to me at all. I know a lot of them, and they seem like nice people. The religion is a little zany, but it really doesn’t matter because all religions are zany, yours, Troll’s, Puddy’s, mine, etc. included!
Cheers!
Oh yeah, just follow the Golden Rule and you’ve pretty much got what religion has to offer.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.....es-summit/
@31
While it is generous of you to lump us with Christianity and Islam, that sort of generosity is a bit of the problem.
Both of these religions were founded n the premise that Judaism was arong, that OUR story was corrupt, and that it was OK to kille us for that reason.
I would rather find my friends in another bar.
Did rujax fart again? D A M N, it stinks weally weally bad!
I cannot resist this.
If you smell it you dunnit.
[deleted]
“and that it was OK to kille us for that reason.”
Yeah, that part is definitely true! Starting with the Romans in 70 AD and continuing with many others for centuries!
“I would rather find my friends in another bar.”
So, what’s your favorite libation? Personally, I like Mac and Jack’s African Amber. It’s available at most NW taverns.
Hey ButtPutty, don’t breath in through your nose when you have your head up your ass.
BTW, see and good polyps or did you forget the flashlight again??
If a cult is a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious.
And you have the GOP claiming to be the *POG. (Party of God)
Then the GOP is a cult and it’s members are cultists?
*At the GOP convention 2008, on TV, an idiot female GOPer made this clam. The GOPers must have thought it to be good PR since the video clip was shown many times during the convention.
ButtPutty claims to be a black guy but writes like your typical right winged fetid syphilitic brained psychopathic troll.