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  1. 1

    As in “Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s”

    Remember, Paul was a ROMAN citizen, what we would today call a Quisling or collaborator.

    His enemies were not the Roman masters but the Jews who were fighting for and losing their independence.

  3. 3

    This is one of American “christianity’s” favorite verses to ignore, as they insist it has no relevance to today’s Christian. It’s an argument of convenience. One can see from both the immediate and the larger context of the verse that the point being made was the deliberate instruction to not be concerned about one’s station in life. Whether it was for a wife to submit to her husband or for a citizen to “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s,” a recurring theme of the New Testament is that earthly worries do not matter. The NT absolutely does not teach people that God wants them to enjoy financial success. It absolutely never instructs them to get involved in politics in order to control the lives of the heathens around them. In both cases, it teaches quite the contrary. Those two cornerstones of the American church are not only absent in the NT; they’re counter to what it teaches.

  4. 4

    nwgal

    Put the NT in context.

    When it was written, Rome was at war with Israel .. largely over the refusal of that the Jews to accept the Roman state religion.

    Rome did not yet see Christians as distinct from the Jews and from the large number of subversives who considered themselves as following Judaism even of they were not of the Jewish people.

    Paul is reassuring the Romans that HIS followers are to be trusted,

    Nothing changes.

  6. 6

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....-pact.html
    Michele Bachmann signs controversial slavery marriage pact
    Michele Bachmann, the Republican presidential candidate, signed a Christian conservative pledge that stated that African-American children were more likely to grow up in stable families during the era of slavery than under President Barack Obama.

  7. 7

    @6 Only if the slaveowners didn’t break up slave families by selling the fathers, mothers, or children to another plantation.

  8. 8

    nwgal

    The Pharisees taught obedience to Roman law as long as the Romans allowed Jewish culture and religious practice. Judaism, however, has a moral code that rejected a lot of what was accepted by Rome and refused to equate the Roman State with the Deity. This code inevitably forced the Romans to consider Jews heretics.

    When this led to the Jewish wars, some Jews and their allies, sought acceptance from Rome by preaching that there was no conflict with Roman law, Ultimately, this became the Christian religion.

    The equation of this accommodation with some Christ-like culture is fantasy .. even if it is an attractive one.

  9. 9

    We all know what Republicans want — because they’ve told us. When GOP pols like Bachmann or Pawlenty say outrageous things they’re merely pandering to their base. Here is what the base wants:

    1. The owner class pays no taxes; the working class (a/k/a “slaves”) will pay all the taxes required to sustain their wars, subsidies, and the public infrastructure and services needed by their businesses.
    2. Children of the owner class will not serve in the military or die in the owner class’s wars; the slaves and their children will do all the fighting and dying.
    3. There will be no social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, unemployment insurance, or injured worker benefits for slaves, as this interferes with their motivation to work for nothing.
    4. Universal free public education, Pell grants, and the like will be abolished so the owner class’s children don’t have to compete for college placement, grades, or good jobs with children of slaves.
    5. Upward mobility from the slave class into the owner class will not be allowed because this depletes the pool of free labor available from the slave class.
    6. The owner class will have complete control over the lives of the slave class with respect to such matters as religion, marriage, and which factories slave children will work in beginning at age 6.
    7. The owner class will have all of the money and property, and will never be required to give any of it up.

  11. 11

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....ia=siderec

    Sun Jul 10, 2011 at 08:34 AM PDT.

    Oh Dear God, No.

    by Brainwrap

    I’m sure you all remember the sickening, revolting case of Jamie Leigh Jones, the KBR contractor who was kidnapped, drugged, gang-raped, beaten and imprisoned by her co-workers overseas.

    She was then effectively gang-raped again by KBR, which invoked a clause in her contract which prevented her from suing the company for the extremely hostile work environment, enabling her attackers before, during and after her assault and imprisonment.

    Submitted without comment….except that this is just sickening.

  12. 12

    God is so great that he inspired David to write Psalm 14 just for all you who are part of the New Atheist Movement.

    1 The fool[a] says in his heart,
    “There is no God.”
    They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
    there is no one who does good.

    2 The LORD looks down from heaven
    on all mankind
    to see if there are any who understand,
    any who seek God.
    3 All have turned away, all have become corrupt;
    there is no one who does good,
    not even one.

    4 Do all these evildoers know nothing?

    They devour my people as though eating bread;
    they never call on the LORD.
    5 But there they are, overwhelmed with dread,
    for God is present in the company of the righteous.
    6 You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor,
    but the LORD is their refuge.

    7 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion!
    When the LORD restores his people,
    let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!

    Footnotes:
    Psalm 14:1 The Hebrew words rendered fool in Psalms denote one who is morally deficient.

  13. 13

    Add @ 11…

    Now comes tha puddybitch to say she had it coming…that she was a slut anayway. Nice misogynist ass that he is.

    http://www.care2.com/causes/wh.....lture.html

    What The Jamie Leigh Jones Verdict Says About Rape Culture

    by Jessica P. July 9, 2011 2:18 pm

    This is one of those posts that I started, and stopped, and started all over again. It’s a post that has to be written but one I could barely bring myself to write.


    Jamie Leigh Jones lost her rape case against Charles Boartz and KBR.    (emphasis mine-Rujax!)

    It’s a tragic story and a stark reminder that for women, becoming sexual prey, and then later vilified for speaking out, is unfortunately just part of life.

    Jones was working for the Iraq war contractor when she claimed she was drugged and then brutally gang-raped. Jones blacked out, woke up bruised and bleeding and then when she reported the attack to her employer was locked in a shipping container and denied food and water for at least 24 hours.

    The main attacker named in the complaint defended the case by saying the sex he had with Jones, while she was unconscious, was consensual. And it was enough for a Houston jury to believe.

    To beat the charges the defense did what the defense had to do: they went after Jones’ character. They produced medical experts that testified that her injuries “may” have been consistent with rape. They introduced evidence that Jones had alleged rape before, that she had a book deal and that her success post-attack was inconsistent with someone who was claiming psychological injuries.

    The defense was shooting for reasonable doubt. Except there is one problem here. Reasonable doubt is the standard in a criminal case and Jones’ claims were civil. All the jury had to do was believe it was more likely than not that Jones was correct and then they were required to find for her. Think of it as about 51% that Jones was telling the truth.

    Instead, the jury found it was more likely than not that Jones consented to sex while unconscious. The jury found it was more likely than not that Jones’ bleeding and fissured vagina and anus were the result of consensual sex that took place while she was unconscious and that it was more likely than not that, in short, Jones is a liar.

    Make no mistake about it, Jones was punished in Texas. She was punished for being a woman in the rough-and-tumble world of private defense contracting where consent to sex can happen while passed out and where employers have no duty to provide a safe work environment free from assault. She was punished for being a woman who had the audacity to speak out against her treatment to Congress, to demand an investigation into private security contracting and to step forward as an example for other women.

    You see, according to the folks in Houston, Jones had it coming.

    (lifted from the Daily Kos link)

  15. 15

    SJ –
    “The equation of this accommodation with some Christ-like culture is fantasy .. even if it is an attractive one.”
    Huh? Are you arguing that certain (inconvenient) parts of the NT aren’t relevant to our day and time? Sounds familiar. Where have I heard that before?…

  16. 16

    No.

    I am not saying anything about relevance just about the facts we know from history.

    Tacitus, for example, is pretty clear in NOT differentiating followers of Jesus from other opponents of the Roman establishment. The later view of these messianics has a lot to do with the church’s effort to become the religion of Rome. In painting that image, they did a lot of harm.

  17. 17

    Conservative “marriage vow” document is amended after outcry about “slavery” language.

    A social conservative Iowa group has retracted language regarding slavery from the opening of a presidential candidates’ pledge, amid a growing controversy over the document that Michele Bachmann had signed and Rick Santorum committed to.
    The original “marriage vow” from the Family Leader, unveiled last week, included a line at the opening of its preamble, which suggested that black children born into slavery were better off in terms of family life than African-American kids born today.
    “Slavery had a disastrous impact on African-American families, yet sadly a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than was an African-American baby born after the election of the USA?s first African-American President,” read the preamble.

    Frederick Douglass never knew his father. There were rumors that his father may have been his white master. He was separated from his mother as an infant. “It was common custom, in the part of Maryland from which I ran away, to part children from their mothers at a very early age”. Then he was sent to live in his maternal grandmother’s shack, but separated from her at age 7 and sent to the Wye House plantation to work until age 11, when he was given to the daughter-in-law of his master. who in turn gave him – aged 12 – to her brother-in-law in Baltimore. At 13, he was hired out to a William Freeland, then given back to Hugh Auld, who then gave him back to his brother Thomas, who sold him – aged 15 – to a poor farmer named Edward Covey, who beat him regularly and brutally. He attempted to escape at age 16, was caught and was finallly successful at 18.

    Yeah…great childhood.

  18. 18

    It’s been hours, but not a single comment from Puddy or our other conservative trolls in support of the original pledge.

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