Matthew 21:18-19
Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.
Discuss.
Like father, like son. Both of them could be pretty mean bastards from time to time.
http://thirdmill.org/newfiles/......18-22.pdf
So, Jesus was a vindictive, petty little narcissist?
It would explain a lot.
Wonderful object lesson.
Jesus saw someone else’s fig tree and killed it. Who owned that tree? Did Jesus plant it? I thought the Romans had a better sense of private property rights.
And he didn’t just kill it, he did it out of childish spite – he had a tantrum. He couldn’t have any figs when he wanted – he didn’t plan ahead, didn’t bring provisions, apparently – just expected to eat other peoples’ stuff that he found on the way – OMG, Jesus was a socialist!!
Not finding the free ride when he expected, he killed the damn tree! Was some poor former depending on that tree? Tough, Jesus was mad. Did Jesus care about the owner of that tree – a regular Judean member of the “productive class” – no way, just acted out in anger – just like the WTO protesters breaking windows!!!
You should never say wither around old men.
Jesus owned the tree fool. He created heaven and earth! But Jesus did it as an object lesson which of course no HA liberal would get. So the rest of the story is below…
20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked.
21 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
If you think that’s bad, check out the Infancy Gospel of Thomas.
School teacher to Ms. Mary, “Your little boy Jesus killed another classmate today. Would you please have him resurrect the poor kid before his parents find out?”
Here’s a translation,
http://www.earlychristianwriti.....berts.html
Now I understand where John McCain is getting his inspiration.
Kind of weird behavior for a guy who could feed the multitudes from a few loaves and fishes, though, and turn water into wine. You’d think if he were hungry he could just whip something up. It’s kinda mean that he took it out on the poor tree, just because he happened to walk by out-of-season.
Moral of the story: eat breakfast before you leave the house.
Notwithstanding the elaborate attempts by theologians to interpret this passage, I’m inclinded to wonder if it was actually a joke from one of Paul’s letters that wound up getting misplaced somewhere in one of the many translations through which our present-day Bible comes. Picture a bleary-eyed St. Jerome in his cave, finding a random note on a scrap of paper and thinking, “Now, where the hell was this supposed to go?”
@2: Biblical scholarship = The ultimate oxymoron!
The sheer conceit of those who purport to parse religious nonsense and their use of tortured circular reasoning that uses other nebulous religious nonsense to derive “meaning”.
That anyone, ever, takes the bullshit from a biblical “scholar” seriously, never ceases to amaze and amuse.
OH Puh-lease…
…how fucking childish.
One biblical scholar wrote something like this of the Jesus of the Infancy Gospel, “Dennis the Menace with the power of God.”
@ Spuddy
‘Nuff said.
Jesus once got into a staring contest with his own reflection. Four days later, he won.
I think in this one, Goldy is comparing himself to Jesus, because Goldy curses a paper, which comes from a tree. But whereas only Jesus only cursed the tree once (which was a parable for the nation of Israel), Goldy curses the paper every day.
@13: The “morals” of Christ include the ownership of other human beings as slaves along with regular beatings to keep them in line.
Of course rujax would think the Bible is childish. Everything he writes proves his childish position.
Where is that quote from DeadToad?
Jesus was obviously a scienctifically challenged tea-bagger.
A titch of botanical knowledge and he’d have known it was the off-season.
You should cull deciduous trees in the winter because the leaves are gone and therefore they’re dead.
Really? Still too cowardly to post my comment.
You live right on down to your moniker.
Matthew 21:18-19: A perfect metaphor for the endless unintended consequences of unfettered LIBERALISM. Every single thing/idea liberals touch wither and die under the weight of not thinking through (or more likely) not acknowledging or caring about ALL the possible consequences.
““May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.” : EXACTLY what has been done to American small businesses.
““May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.” : EXACTLY what has been done to American public schools.
““May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.” : EXACTLY what has been done to American aerospace program.
““May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.” : EXACTLY what has been done to American exceptionalism.
““May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.” : EXACTLY what has been done to American pride.
““May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.” : EXACTLY what has been done to American self-reliance.
and today
““May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.” : EXACTLY what has been done to American military.
Do you asses have the capability of self examination to wonder why all your good intentions go down in such spectacular flames? I already know that answer …and so do you: Feelings, nothing more than feelings… /snicker… NO! … /laugh out loud!
While I’m visiting, can I watch your collective heads explode?
@22;
That ‘unfettered liberalism” would be during Reagan, Bush, Bush. Possibly during the ‘withering’ of American public schools, you lost your ability to research and infer – which is why what you are implying is so laughable.
@6: The faithful trolls need to watch it, Matthew 5:22:
Sounds like you better not miss an offering check, or be guilty on all counts.
Seems analogous to what the Republican business class is doing to consumers.
After they eliminate half the jobs and slash wages for the rest who is gonna buy anything from them?
@22 Yeah right. The economic meltdown is all the fault of people who expect to be PAID for their WORK.
If liberalism is so bad for this country how come we have so many people living in million-dollar homes and driving Porsches?
No it was caused by those who jock-strapped for Odumba!
What the fuck does that even mean?
@6,
you’re obviously a man of great faith, puddles, so why don’t you demonstrate for us? Toss Rainier into the middle of the Sound. I’ll never question anything you do after that.
Wow. Just Wow.
For a self-righteous biblical literalist like Pudster, he relentlessly uses that term.
I guess it’s OK if you’re a christianist. IOKIYAC.
What say you, Pud – are you going to burn in hell?
@30
Rob, didn’t you know, there are rhetorical trapdoors that allow ‘believers’ to get around requests for data like that.
Jesus was similarly tempted by the Devil, after all, or so Pud’s Book of Myths says. We can’t expect Pud to do better than Jesus, can we?
@31: No big whoop — our chocolate cracker has been known to use much saltier (including scatalogical!) language hereabouts. And then there is the lying and willful ignorance, etc.
I bet he repents a lot to make up for it — get out of hell free: such a racket!
@33: Either you live by the Good Book or you don’t. Apparently they don’t believe enough to live it.
How pathetic.
There’s not nearly enough smiting these days. Back then Jesus was all “eff you tree” but now we can’t even get a lightening bolt for Bin Laden.
More smiting please.
35
Concur. Until we get more smiting, we can anticipate unfettered social decline.
re 22: None of your good intentions go down in flames — because you don’t have any.
Which is more important: begatting or smiting.
@38
Neither. It’s ‘knowing’ that’s the important one.
Smote, smite, begat, beget, affect, effect…
No wonder I’m hesitant to post in this thread.
Wow, Jesus was a petulant little dick huh. The gods (Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Norse, Chinese, Mayan, etc) were always dicks. Do what I say because I’m powerful or I’m f**k you up. Read enough of this myths and you notice they’ll ALL identical. Same crap, different language. Same rules, ideas and concepts, usually involving who has power, and hint, it’s the old men. And when old men make up religions, guess who’s in charge? Wise women…no, old men. ROTFLMAO. Just ask the Catholics when we’re going to have a female Pope, or ask the Muslims why women can’t prey in the same sacred space as men, while there are a few female Rabbi’s there aren’t many. No matter what religion it is the men always write the magical made up myths to say THEY can have many women, women can ONLY have one man and must be subservient (I’m looking at your Mormons). Shocking. LOL
If I make up a religion (I’m looking at you Scientology) I’ll of COURSE write it so everyone has to give ME their money and women. SHOCKING! LOL What rubes!
OK, OK .. yes Puddy I did hear your prayer!
I am here.
I am that I am.
None of this has much to do with Me.
I don’t walk around smiting trees.
@41
God Will Fuck You Up
@43
LS God Will Fuck You Up
Not really, kjnd of like the smiting tree thing, way below my pay grade.
I am that I am.
…“May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.”
Sounds like JC could get a little pissy about things not going his way. That crucifixion deal must have really pissed him off!
@44
But God, you gotta admit, it’s a catchy tune.
Faith is the enemy of hope.
Puddy–
Seems like our leftists pals prefer the Gospel of Progressivism to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The world is a Godless human Society.
The Savior implies something needs saving..like the world. What these folks don’t comprehend is that Salvation is FREEDOM..something we all desire. Freedom from guilt, sin, Judgment & most of all DEATH.
The Son is the Savior, both Man & God.
The Father sent his Son to save the Godless human society…and gave us the GIFT of Salvation.
God & Sinners like us…RECONCILED!
The Gospel is a message of reconciliation.
1 John 4:9-16
New International Version,
I am thrilled to have acquired a NEW and better swear word!
Next time I get angry with someone (male), I will invoke this passage:
May Jesus smite your tree!
Lots better and cleaner than Fuck You!
Cynical:
May Jesus smite YOUR tree!
What kind of a smiting God would make a good lady pregnant with His own son, then smite that son in front of her to show His love for mankind?
Makes me wanna ask .. “Hows this smitin thing going for ya?”
Yes, indeed, Cyn – you’re getting it finally!!
Well, partly, there’s still all that nature stuff as well. You know, trees and stuff, and Emperor Penguins and other animals without any genomic evidence of near extinction events.
Well, now that you mention it, perhaps this Savior of your could help out with Republicans – they’re quite a menace to all thing good and we’re having a tough time with the suckers – might Jesus be available for some of that smiting?
Yes, yes, we all know – and war is peace, and up is down, and we’ve always been at war with East Asia.
Isn’t that what I get without religion? At least the guilt, sin, and judgment – and boy howdy, I could do without your self-righteous fundy Judgment. As for death, I want my ashes spread on the roots of a redwood tree.
Oh, I know, now your getting deep into your particular brand of voodoo. Nope, don’t need any 3-in-1 super special all-purpose God to save my ass. If there’s a transcendent being out there with personality and volition, I seriously doubt my groveling is going to do me any favors with the it.
The one kernel of sanity in your entire raving post. Perhaps even the only sane thing you’ve ever written here (though it was a quote).
Perhaps I can help – take this one true thing you’ve written and really really think about it, study it, meditate on it – pray even, if you like. And then go see if your mean-spirited, social darwinistic, “I got mine” approach to society and politics measures up to this admonition from your Holy Book (of Myths).
Once again useless Lee and useless Goldy don’t make Newsbeast’s cut. So …… if Goldy and Lee are too useless to use, why do we keep them around?
And how do we know they even exist?
The Durants, Will and Ariel, wrote years ago that if the same extreme level of extremist scrutiny and criticism that bigots like you throw at the historical Jesus were thrown at other “historical” men and women, there’d be very little history.
There’s more validation for the life of Jesus than there is for many or most of the Big Names of the dead past. And to me it looks like there’s more validation for the almost chimerical dead past than there is for Goldy right now.
Face it, progressive bigots, you’ve been fooled again. You’ve been conned into suspending your useful progressive disbelief by a useless drooling sniveling phantom called “Goldy.” Whatever “Goldy” is, you should have learned by now that “Goldy” isn’t worth your time. If the name of Keats was writ with water, the name of “Goldy” is writ with piss.
And as for the alleged fatal errors of the Christianist Bible that Christophobic “Goldy” keeps pissing on his homepage, go back to the Durants. They demonstrate that the apparent contradictions of the Bible do not invalidate the Bible. They support its authenticity.
And here’s for you illiterate liberal scientists: Several years ago in an article about Stephen Jay Gould and punctuated equilibrium, The New Yorker showed that there is almost no evidence to support Darwin at the macro level. There’s lots of blind liberal faith; but not much, you know, fact.
Unlike the historical Jesus, who seems to withstand scrutiny, the historical Darwin seems not to stand but to fall. Like “Goldy.”
So Jesus represents the Republicans, and the fig tree represents the 9/11 first responders….yeah, I get it.
Given that You do not link to an article and do not provide it’s name, date, or other identifyinginformation, it is difficult to discuess the merits of your asertion. However, I am sure that, at best, the article “asserts” rather than “shows” that “there is almost no evidence to support Darwin at the macro level,” whatever that is really supposed to mean.
But if that phrase means that there is not a lot of fossil evidence for gradual, incremental evolution of the wort Drwin more or less assumed was the process. THis is ciorrect, and thus Stephen Jay Gould’s proposal, now widely supported, for puncuated equilibium as an explanation, which means that Darwin’s theories of evolution are stronger than ever now and a process has been accepted that better fits the fossil record.
Faith = Willful Ignorance
Heeb whore
Dear Mam
Not really. Somehow no contemporary figures noted Jesus being around. There are also some other problems … no DNA, the Roman Bible says things all other historical sources say could not be true.
Other than that you and the Durants has a case.
Christianese:
To any of the christianists, hereabouts:
Define Salvation in practical terms. I know it means “saved”. So spare me the claptrap and get specific: e.g., saved from what and with whom, for the purpose of, etc?
*About the same observable effect as the eerie sphfffft of Sweetshot breath spray while invoking the phrase “gotta build my downline” at an Amway convention.
Heeb Whore @53
As pointed out above by Daddylove, what does this mean? Do you even understand the words you’ve strung together?
First, I wouldn’t imagine The New Yorker to be a venue for serious, technical scientific dialogue, therefore, nothing was shown there. Moreover, the theory of punctuated equilibria fits perfectly nicely within neo-darwinism.
Did you actually have a point?
@48 “leftists” “Gospel of Progressivism”
This is the politicized, perverted view of Americanized Christianity that is such a turnoff to me. And it’s expressed with Klynical’s usual vapidity.
Selfish, narcissistic KLOWNS go to heaven. Progressives don’t. Whatever. Speaking for myself, I’d rather I didn’t have to spend an eternity with a bunch of hate-filled loons. If that’s heaven, please God, give me hell instead.
“the phrase “gotta build my downline” at an Amway convention”
I was once trying to “save” a woman I knew from those freaks and ended up at one of their conventions with her. Just the recollection of it makes my head hurt.
In case illiterate liberal scientists missed the reference to Heeb Whore, it’s what un-Heeb whore Mattie Blaylock called beautiful Josie Marcus, nee Joanna Going.
As for other Jews we can use, there’s this one … Just sayin’ that “Goldy,” whatever a goldy is, doesn’t make the cut.
M’self? Totally with Corrie Ten Boom on this. Old Christianist Corrie and her old Christianist Dutch dad believed back in the day that Jews are the “apple of God’s eye,” which is apparently a very good thing.
She and her family back in the day (early 1940s – 28 February 1944) paid a big price for their belief.
(Re Gould and New Yorker: Back with that later, although lib sci won’t be amused. After all, it’s only the New Yorker.)
51. Liberal Scientist spews:
I’ve always “gotten” it Lib Sci.
Seems like a mentally challenging approach to life you’ve chosen.
You folks keep working hard to save the world your way…I feel comfortable the Jesus took care of the important saving stuff for me.
No, of course not. It’s only regurgitating some nonsense that it read on some kook site somewhere. It has no capability of understanding any of what it’s trying to talk about.
Kinda like puddles, who can’t even be bothered to make excuses for why he can’t move Rainier. Guess either his faith or his god ain’t very strong.
@62
If this is the article you have in mind, then the implication is exactly the opposite of what you suggest.
60. Steve spews:
Sorry Steve, I should have said “Atheist” Progressives. There are many self-proclaimed Progressives who are Christians.
Do you believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ steve?
It’s a watershed…either you do or you don’t.
I have no problem with those who don’t quite frankly. I have no problem with those of you who like to mock & ridicule those of us who do.
I think if you want to call something “vapidity” steve, you ought to read the Atheist comments…and yours for that matter.
Re-read some of the past Bible Studies.
It’s always the same.
It’s Goldy’s set-up to encourage mock & ridicule.
Those of us who believed in the Gospel before Goldy started his Bible game still have our faith….probably even stronger.
It’s just hard to rationalize all the energy Atheist Progressives put into their hate for God and Christians. I mean, if when you die, that’s it…why bother??
We went Christmas Caroling at Retirement Homes yesterday after Church. It was incredibly uplifting, as it is every year. To look into the eyes of folks who’s bodies are shot…yet to see their love for Christ in twinkling eyes. To hear them struggle to sing Christmas Carols and to pray with them is such an honor.
I read this Devotional–
Friday, December 17, 2010
Up and Out
Read Psalm 40:1-5
[The Lord] lifted me out of the slimy pit, out of the mud and mire; he set my feet on a rock and gave me a firm place to stand. -Psalm 40:2 (NIV)
Charles P. Axe (Pennsylvania, USA)
Prayer
O Lord, no matter the depth of our troubles, may we look to you for help — for deliverance from destruction and despair and all that imprisons us. Thank you, Lord, for being our refuge and salvation. Amen.
Thought for the day
No pit is deep enough to put us beyond God’s reach.
It was powerful. We have all been in our own personal prison at some time in our lives.
Only thru Christ do you have real freedom.
That’s easy: because all y’all keep trying to insist that everyone else live by your rules. Live by the bible if you want, but leave the rest of us alone, and we’ll stop wasting energy on you.
@66
Do you believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ steve?
I believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It’s the Gospel about Jesus Christ, particularly the version promulgated by an exclusionary subset of Christians, that strikes me as implausible in the extreme.
When you judge other people as being unsaved, aren’t you usurping God’s judgement?
@65 DJ
I ran into that article elsewhere. It’s certainly not a criticism of Darwin; it’s an affirmation of evolution that criticizes GOULD for portions of his writings that have been co-opted by creationists.
@66
Yeah, right. Uh-huh. Hey, I’d believe you if I didn’t know better.
I am so fucking sick of the jesus bleaters.
Rujax–
That is called being Convicted!
It’s a good thing.
@ 72
Cynical, Puddy etc are this type of “christian”.
All mouth, no brains. No desire to learn anything new. The only things missing from their repertoire are the goose step march and the swastika. I’ll bet ol spuddypud even agrees with this guy. They’re not even trying to hide it anymore.
Daddy & DJ: Nope. Your 1999 article had a follow-up, c. 2002. The later article discusses Gould’s hits, swings, and misses. Also Darwin’s.
Rabbit’s favorite Jew U Can Use tells it like it is. Oy.
The Kraut says it’s a good bet that we’ve got six more years of Obama. Oy.
Discuss.
If Jews are the “apple of God’s eye,” it’s inevitable that there will be the occasional rotten goldy at the bottom of the barrel.
Just as it’s inevitable that the rujax!es, like cooties, will always be with us.
Visions of sugar plums to all the rest of you, darlings.
“Do you believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ steve?”
The teachings of Jesus have always been important to me. As you never seem to want to quote the words of Jesus, rather, just biblical verse you use to slam your political opponents, I wonder just how important those teachings really are to you.
“It’s a watershed…either you do or you don’t.”
Your either/or view strikes me as being shallow and insipid. The word “vapid” also comes to mind. You come off as mindlessly crowing about your faith here in a political arena, never seeming to connect with anything deeper within. Your faith comes off as little more than someone brandishing a cheap flag pin. I recall Jesus having a word or two to say about that.
Just did it again! Got in a hurry and typed horsesass.com. Sure a whole hell of a lot more interesting than what I’m seeing at pale imitation Brand-X porno horsesass.org.
Let this be a lesson to you. Always go to the top of the foodchain, not the bottom. Always go first to horsesass.com.
Accept no useless substitutes.
Steve spews-
The teachings of Jesus are important to lots of folks….Satan included.
Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior?
Flag pin = Surrogate penis
<blockquote>”Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior?” he said as he inserted the ball gag and attached the nipple clamps on his favorite nanny goat. As he forced her front legs into his illegally tall herding boots, he smiled a little crooked smile because he already knew the answer…
Ah, cyninny’s doin’the Gish Gallop, ain’t it cute?
<blockquote>”Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior?” he said as he drove the tenpenny nails home. The semi-concious form strapped in the chair erupted in screams of pain and curses laced with flecks of blood and saliva. “Praise Jesus!” he shouted, relishing that another unbeliever would soon be tortured by beings who really knew their stuff…
“Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior?”
What’s this, the Spanish inquisition or something? More like evangelical blathering, which is one big turn-off for me. I’ve written repeatedly of my life-long faith. It’s between me and God. Jesus actually has little to do with it anymore, other than his teachings, which are still relevant to me.
Fuck this phony s.o.b.
Bronstein. Now there’s a goldy-kind-of Jew you could use. Unlike goldy, Bronstein could think, write, and fight. Then he got an ice pick in the head from the goyim. Oy.
Maybe there is no God. No Seattle Jew either.
Am out of the loop and have missed Medved’s klezmer Christmas carols. Life hardly seems worth living. Send me all your money or God will call me home.
Zotz, that’s repellent and it doesn’t further the discussion.
It’s posts like that, that make cyn and puddy look better.
Is that what you want?
@89: Of course it’s repellent.
I just expressed in a few scenarios the true import of the superstitious glossolalia Klynical, et al repeat (mindlessly) in public and think is perfectly acceptable discourse.
“Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?” really means: “Are you are prepared to ignore greed, avarice, sexual predation, torture and murder in the interest of faith?”
Christianese is pervasive and pernicious. It gets essentially no push back because some of us recoil from confronting the evil that these deluded crazy people spew.
I just did.
Cynical @63:
In fact, yes, I find a mentally challenging life worthwhile. Valuable things take work, worthy ambitions don’t come easy.
Yes we do – because we aspire to a better world, we know the world can be better, more egalitarian, more just, mare meaningful and fulfilling for more people. Seems you conservative Christianists just want somebody to do it for them – how lazy. Isn’t that one of yours or Pud’s critiques of the Left? How hypocritical.
@65
Don Joe, that seems to by typical for Pud and Cyn when they attempt citations and links.
They do tend to get things backward.
@84
Did someone say, “The Spanish Inquisition?!“
I find this quite repellent, as well.
It’s all about boxing people into a false dichotomy, which is really, are you on my team or not? Are you in my tribe or not? Are you my enemy or not?
They leave no room, and have no respect, for anyone of any other faith or belief system, or non-faith, or ethics. It’s their way or damnation – and if you’re already damned by God, why not treat you like shit while here on earth? – it’s really just an excuse to behave badly and still comfort themselves that God loves them bestest of all.
It’s really sick stuff, and alienates people (by definition and design).
@93 heh- Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
LibSci–
Sheesh, I asked steve a very simple question.
He answered it.
You find the question “repellant”?
I suppose most hardcore Atheists do.
But I asked a simple question and you go off on a nonsensical tirade.
You could choose to just ignore it LibSci
Instead you say–
A simple question deserves your rantings and implications? Sheesh.
You are an angry person, aren’t you?!
“It’s all about boxing people into a false dichotomy, which is really, are you on my team or not? Are you in my tribe or not? Are you my enemy or not?”
Spot on.
It reminds me of that woman I knew and the box Amway was putting her in. “Do you want to be rich or not?”
@96
No, Cynical, actually I’m quite happy and known among my friends and acquaintances as a gregarious and fun-loving person.
I find hateful Christianist code-talking to be repellent, however, for the reasons detailed above.
Here’s for you, illiberal “scientists“: It’s from the New Yorker, 30 September 2002, ‘The Descent of Gould‘ by H. Allen Orr. Pretty sure it didn’t get dumped to the Web.
Re Stephen Jay Gould’s punctuated equilibrium, c. 1972:
Will follow this with the exciting sequel that you’re all waiting for if Part 1 doesn’t get whacked. By you know who. And you know who you are, Darryl.
I still have a bit of my Amway “Scrub Brite Soft Cleanser”, good for “Tub & tile, appliances, pots & pans and auto chrome”. Good stuff!
More later.
Actually the scant fossil record was sufficient to dislodge most of Gould’s theory. And the scant fossil record is insufficient, as Gould said, to sustain Darwin.
Maybe Darryl should have whacked me after all.
God hates figs!
@99, 101
What, pray tell, is your point?
There is a point to this rather extensive though seemingly selective blockquoting, isn’t there?
From that alone I guess you fancy that you’ve made some sort of triumphant smack-down of Darwin, or liberals, or atheists, or something.
Are you asserting the the fossil record does not support natural selection? That SJGould ‘deposed’ Darwin (whatever that might mean)?
And what does this even mean:
*******
As is usual in the Pud/Cyn blathersphere, your link does not support your argument. More egregious, it does not go to the article in The New Yorker from which you extensively quote. I would again point out, that from a scientific standpoint, nothing is ‘shown’ in The New Yorker, as it is not a peer-reviewed scientific technical journal, rather it is a popular, non-scientific, though often excellent, publication.
I would suggest you do some very cursory self-education on the theory of punctuated equilibria and that theory’s relationship with natural selection.
One might want to start here. Note the section titled “Common Misconceptions,” and perhaps spend a bit of time there.
Here are a few nuggets:
there’s more!
And from Gould’s most important co-author, Niles Eldredge:
Will the troll-of-many-names return with more bs after that takedown? Or will it slink off into the gloom without another word?
@104
Who knows, who cares. Slink, I’d bet.
ape shall not kill ape.
zzz hhhh zzzzzzzzzzz hng hng zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
enough said?
IATIA
@99, 101: Among scientists there is debate about how evolution works, not about whether evolution exists. Punctuated equilibrium is a model of evolution, not a kind of counter-theory.
“Survival of the fittest,” for example, is another Darwinian idea that was recently challenged in an attempt to refine the model, not to “disprove” evolution in some way.
Scientists struggle to define and debate the mechanisms, but all would agree that we are the product of evolution, and not of God huffing into a lump of dirt.
Think I’ll slink.
My memory of what was being written about Gould/Eldredge in 2002 was somewhat different from what was being written about Gould/Eldredge in 2002. Should have done the re-read before doing the typing.
Still: Evolutionary biologists have always believed that the fossil record is abysmally bad …Meaning, perhaps, that you Darwinians and neo-Darwinians have less evidence to base your “scientific” certitudes on than Christians have to base Christianity on.
That’s my point.
The point is that the Durants had a point. Here it is:
There’s more there there (Testaments Old & New) in other words, than there’s evidence for “goldy” or neo-macro-Darwin. (Are you neo-Darwinians neoconservatives in drag? Waiting to launch another bright idea such as progressive Darwinian eugenics?)
A completely incoherent point. Of course the fossil record is incomplete and always will be – given that we’re dealing with things millions, tens of millions and hundreds of millions of years old, it’s astounding that anything survives at all.
Your conclusion, that scientific developmental biologists or evolutionists have less empiric data than Christians do about their mythology is so ludicrous as to defy response. Moreover, your assertion rests on some sort of false equivalence between science and Christianity, which is similarly indefensible.
You, in fact, have no point.
I would like to add, that if you want to engage in honest debate, please keep a consistent handle – keeping track of your (presuming that you’re one person) cutsie names blurs the lineage of your responses and make my responding difficult.
That is, if you really want an honest debate.
“Think I’ll slink.”
Hey, I still love ya!
When I look at the fossil record’s “Tree of Life”, it seems obvious to me that this is what happened. I keep in mind that a small percentage of the critters that ever lived were fossilized, and a small percentage of those have been discovered. Each year there are discoveries that fill the gaps of our knowledge.
If one clings to the view of God as held by a bronze-age tribe with all its specifics, then that God is surely threatened, growing smaller with each scientific discovery. One just needs to find for themselves a view of God that grows larger with each scientific discovery instead of smaller. I don’t think that’s so difficult.
I hope all is well with my friend and that you have a very merry Christmas.
Mr. Cynical @ 96
Maybe you could learn from Steve’s example.
That would require a bit of introspection and critical thinking on your part. But you’re a big boy, “old pal”, I’m sure you could find the courage.
Mr. Cynical @ 79
You crack me up.
Something I learned from another great teacher:
If you see Buddha on the road, kill him.
Yeah, if you’re already brainwashed. If not, then not so much.
And to echo LS, your assertions are nonsense. At least as far as I’m able to figure out what you’re trying to assert.
Yeah, if you’re already brainwashed. If not, then not so much.
And to echo LS, your assertions are nonsense. At least as far as I’m able to figure out what you’re trying to assert.
Excuse the duplicate, not sure what happened.