Romans 1:26-27
Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way, and they did things with each other that were not natural. Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men.
Discuss.
Was it something in the water?
Good for them. Try new things.
I will never understand why god, or some intercessor for god, or the government, gives a flying fuck what two (or more) people do between the sheets.
I mean really, what’s the harm? We’ve evolved these very sexually responsive bodies and minds – why not try ’em out? To not to is kind of like having a Ferrari that you never go more than 25 in.
I suppose the answer to #2 above is that if you shame diversity and shame exploration and shame joy, you’re one very big step on the way to authoritarianism and control.
“Your natural urges are a sin and you need god (or his designated salesman here in your region) to cleanse your guilt away”
Get the rubes shamed and afraid, rather than empowered and emancipated, and bingo, they’re deferential and tithing.
Next thing you know, you can bust their unions, make ’em work more for less, keep them so busy they can’t participate in their government.
If you’re really good at it, you might even convince them to vote against their own best interests, all based on stoking their fear that you’ve so nicely kindled, especially that fear of the person who isn’t like them*!
*(isn’t like them in some superficial and meaningless way, like skin color, or ethnicity, or how they like to fuck)
I suppose sexual non-conformity could lead even to this:
Like I said…
“dogs and cats living together…”
OMG!! My dear Ms. Wingnut has both a dog and a cat! I’m sure she had no idea that it was a sign of the end times.
I like the cat. So I say she gets rid of the dog.
@6
That’s exactly the line I was thinking of!
Whenever I hear some wingnut frothing on about the apocalypse, I hear Bill Murray…it becomes very hard to take them seriously.
“Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way”
The missionary position?
Before you wingnuts get all hot and bothered,
Romans 2:1 (King James Version)
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
So, the Earth is like a bar where God walked in and ordered a round of pansexuality for everyone?
@2 – you only tend to care if you are jealous.
Who wrote these words? They are not Mine, nor have I ever revealed that I support them.
Why would someone take these murmurings over My own words here?
I Am that I Am.
Ahhh Ghost Busters is all Liberal Scientist has to offer. Interesting.
Christians are into some serious kink.
@12
SJ, who said “Slandering me”?
@13
Pud, it’s never hard to not take you seriously.
@14
IF only they’d embrace their kink – I think we’d all be happier, with the aggregate level of repression and hysteria taken down MANY notches!
Ironically funny Goldy posts this. Poor guy can’t get laid by either sex. LOL. Happy Sunday all!
Puddy exemplifies the fact that most religious fundamentalists lack both the ability and willingness to think for themselves. It’s too much easier to have someone else explain the how and why of existential reality. No particular need for logic and rationality, they just want to comfort of authority. Hence their blind willingness to accept the mindless non-sense found between the covers of their “Holy Scripture.”
Whenever you point out the glaring contradictions and inconsistencies, they clamp their hands over their ears, close their eyes tightly, hum loudly and stamp their feet.
My problem is they then point to that same mindless non-sense as a reason to make societal norms and laws that restrict my behavior. The irony is that they call themselves the “freedom lovers.”
St. Ambrose, Bishop of Milan, advised when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Convenient omission of the first sentence of the verse “26God let them follow their own evil desires>”
Then of course the last sentence, once again, omitted “They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds. “
Then of course, the very next verse ” 28Since these people refused even to think about God, he let their useless minds rule over them. That’s why they do all sorts of indecent things. 29They are evil, wicked, and greedy, as well as mean in every possible way. They want what others have, and they murder, argue, cheat, and are hard to get along with. They gossip, 30say cruel things about others, and hate God. They are proud, conceited, and boastful, always thinking up new ways to do evil. “
Peace.
@20 More hypocricy. You complain of omission even as you wingnuts completely ignore Romans 2:1. Or did Phyllis Schafly’s spawn edit that one out of the new wingnut Bible?
@20: Romans = Republicans.
Why, that sounds just like puddly and cynical!
Sounds like there wasn’t much begatting going on, but lots of sex.
God likes begatting. I know, because — like so many other Christians — we speak on a daily basis.
Odie @24:
Not sure what God likes, but I know the Church likes a lot of begetting. All those new little Christians are very useful as cannon fodder and cheap labor. Just need to make sure they are properly indoctrinated at an early age so they’ll grow up not needing or wanting to think for themselves. That way they turn out as good Christians and even better Republicans.
Seen on a church billboard:
Here: http://unreasonablefaith.com/2.....urch-sign/
They are proud, conceited, and boastful, always thinking up new ways to do evil.
But didn’t, like, you know, god, create all of this??
Biblical key party?
Guess the sermon ran a little long today. Normally Puddy has weighed in by now with post saying how sorry we’re all going to be when Jesus comes winging in on the “clouds of glory.”
@15 Liberal Scientist
?????
As long as animal and/or child abuse is not involved, I could care less what people do with their private parts in the privacy and comfort of their own homes (or temporarily rented motel rooms, for that matter).
@30
Perhaps I was wrong – are you not the fellow who uses the nom de plume ‘God’?
@29 Puddy’s a cultist, a follower of the failed prophet, Ellen White. She was the one who had one failed prediction after another about the end of the world. His sabbath was yesterday. This ties in with one of Ellen’s prophesies about a seven-headed sea beast (papacy), a lamb beast (USA), Sunday Blue Laws (I’m not kidding) and, of course, the end of the world. Not that I’m knocking cult membership Heck, I belong to one myself. But we’re not much into that end of the world and sea-beast stuff, although we do have our Golden Salamander.
So, other than keeping the Jewish Sabbath, how is Puddy’s cult any different than the rest of Christianity? “One failed prediction about the end of the world after another” sounds very familiar. A bunch of wacked out interpretations of “sacred writings” and bizarre notions of legislating individual behavior is pretty much the same throughout.
“Golden Salamander”?
Sounds good to me. Certainly makes more sense than poor Puddypounder.
Hey Goldie:
I guess we’re gonna have to stick to the Old Testament. Even the Christians realize the New Testament is total bullshit and simply cannot be defended.
@32 I am flattered but God is a lot more rational than I am and seemingly has omnipotent power to avoid typos!
My own theory is that the God here is real. Certainly She or He makes more sense than Goldy’s biblical quotes or Puddy’s rants.
If there is a God, why wouldn’t that entity choose a place like this to appear?
What I want to know is why the believers who throng to Jesus on toast and to the wierd writings of Roman priests would NOT want to make this site holy?
Can a webspace become virtually holy?
Lib Sci
What if a large number of HA posters decided on a prayer and then we could see if God answers?
FWIW, I regularly pray to el Shaddai to find me parking spaces! He ALWAYS answers! My own dues sis that The Deity does not like to show off .. I suspect the best prayers are for small things.
I also prayed to God to plug the leak in the Gulf, took him awhile but he did it!
Did Unkl Witz write something useful today?
NOPE!
When Jesus comes in His Father’s glory what will Unkl Witz say?
NOPE!
Rob personified!
Just posted it Witless. And when He does you’ll be speechless!
But at the hospital today a fella died on the golf course. He was 40. So Puddy was MIA on HA.
We tend to live on average 7-10 years longer. Even Steve Steve Steve knows this Auntie Witless!
Puddy,
You must agree she got some predictions wrong, don’t you?
Puddy ..
longer than who or what?
“While research continues to look at ways to help people live longer and healthier, Perls is looking at populations that seem to do that better than most.
The Seventh-day Adventists are such a group: They live to an average age of 88, or about 10 years longer than other people in the country. They don’t smoke. They tend to be lean and fit and get regular exercise. They eat a largely vegetarian diet and spend a lot of time involved with family and religion, which scientists think helps them manage stress.
“If everyone in our country adopted those behaviors, the payoff would be huge,” said Perls, an associate professor of geriatrics at Boston University Medical Center. He would add one more piece of advice to the list:
“Avoid anti-aging quacks like the plague.”
“But at the hospital today a fella died on the golf course. He was 40. So Puddy was MIA on HA.”
This fellow .. was he an adventist?
SJ,
NOPE, he wasn’t. He just dropped dead while golfing. They could n’t revive him at the hospital. It was a sad, very sad day.
Proud Leftist,
She admitted she misunderstood what God was telling her. What Steve Steve Steve rants about around October 21, 1844 is not Jesus coming back, which she admits was a mistake, but Jesus went from the Holy Place in the Heavenly Sanctuary into the Most Holy Place. SJ can explain what the sanctuary is.
SJ,
One more thing is we take the Sabbath off as God’s day. It’s a day of rest so when you add up 52 days off a year times 78 years, that’s 11.1 years of resting which contributes to a longer life!
Yesterday, we had a guest pastor who came from Chicago’s Inner City with a group of 10 kids chaperones. They were with us for a week. What a wonderful time. He preached on Acts 15:16-34. Paul & Silas loved the Lord so much that they sang & gave praise as they sat in stocks in a dank, smelly dungeon.
You doubters remind me of the Jailer.
What will it take for you to open your minds beyond what you see & feel??
Acts 16:16-34 (New International Version)
Paul and Silas in Prison
@48 Did you show them your poster of the president with a bone in his nose? Did you tell them any of your jokes about lazy blacks who are afraid to work like a white man?
puddles @39,
how can I hate something I don’t believe in? No puddly, it’s you who hates, not me.
@45 Puddy
I gather he was a friend?
I assume a good person has passed, … sad wheh you think of all the good a young man could have done.
@48 Mr C …
Why do you take this story, a story with not a word from Me … as MY word?
I am that I am.
It occurs to me that there’s been too much loss of late for my friend Puddy. But he has a deep faith in God and I believe such faith can help to carry us through the most difficult of times and oftentimes even leaves us a little wiser for it.
“Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget
falls drop by drop upon the heart
until, in our own despair, against our will,
comes wisdom through the awful grace of God.”
Aeschylus, as misquoted by Bobby Kennedy in announcing the death of Martin Luther King Jr. in Indianapolis, April 4, 1968.
Given the inconsistency of his ideological underpinnings, I guess it makes sense that Puddy would also belong to a religious cult whos’ beliefs are even more bizarre and patently absurd than the run of the mill Christian who’s beliefs are also pretty bizarre and absurd.
What amazes me is that we all grow out of the Santa Claus myth when we realize he couldn’t possibly get down all those chimneys in one night, and we all grow out of the Easter Bunny myth when we learn that bunnies don’t lay eggs, much less hard boil and stain them with colors. We all grow out of the Tooth Ferry myth when we catch dad or mom sneaking into our bedroom after they think we’re asleep. And pretty much everybody except the equally mythical Charlie Brown has given up on the “Great Pumpkin.”
So how come grown adults, with at least the appearance of full possession of their senses, still accept the even more ridiculous notion of the God(s) of the Old Testament. Or are willing to write large checks to the obvious charlatans who control the local Jesus franchise know as their church.
Only thing I can think of is that there must be some faulty wiring in there somewhere.
hubris…its whats for dinner…
Steve and SJ,
All loss of life is a sad. But thanks for the concern.
RE 54
First off, I never believed in the Tooth Ferry. Washington State Ferry, yes. But I’m pretty sure they’re real, unless you buy Humes arguments…. Darn, what were we talking about?
What an arrogant little mind you have. Because someone sees wonder in the world they are naive. Because they see the work of a master artist and surmise that somewhere the master must exist they are fools. I’d rather be a fool possessed of curiousity and wonder than a sad and barren mind like yours.
Here’s a hint- not all that is may be found in a scientific lab.
@56 “But thanks for the concern.”
You’re welcome!
To Lostinaseaofnonsequiturs @57:
Seeing wonder in the world and accepting such a trivial and banal explanation of that wonder is truly naïve. Sorry to burst your bubble my friend, but there are far more plausible and wondrous explanations of our awesome universe than those offered by the uniquely simpleminded and uncreative adherents to the Biblical creation story.
Here’s a hint for you pal, spend some time in a scientific lab, then come back and let’s discuss.
So anyways, Witz, my cult flirted with the notion of Joseph Smith receiving revelation from a talking Golden Salamander. That this was even debatable before being outed as a forgery is really quite humorous.
From Wiki, “Salamander Letter”,
“According to this letter, when Smith dug up the plates a “salamander” appeared, which transformed itself into a spirit that refused to give Smith the plates unless his brother Alvin Smith was also present. This would have been very difficult, as Alvin was dead at the time of the alleged appearance.”
LostInaSeaofBlue,
Shorter Auntie Witless, “Visit a scientific lab… see how ‘he was created'”!
Discussion Over!
Shorter Auntie Witless Continued,
“Visit a scientific lab… see how ‘he was created’”,… yep a testtube baby! It was also know as “Janitor In a Drum“
Witz,
I’m not sure of the derivation of your tag, but can live with the suspense. Easily.
Science is one tool for obtaining knowledge. So is logic. But they aren’t the only ones. Someday, when you reach that level of maturation, you’ll understand that.
To Steve @60:
Well….. hooray for your cult. To somehow mark your selves as different than mainstream Christian dogma is certainly admirable. To somehow contemplate the presence of a Golden Salamander bearing tidings from the Creator of the Universe is tolerant. And to dismiss the whole thing as utter nonsense is excellent rational judgment.
My congratulations!
Hopefully you’ve moved on to something a little more plausible.
Pray tell us Lost:
What are the others?
“Because someone sees wonder in the world they are naive.”
It doesn’t mean that they aren’t naive. Too many Christians come across as dumber than a stump with their faith. They can give those Christians of a deeper faith a bad rep, especially when they’re the noisy ones, hollaring and getting all the attention for their strange antics.
Georges-Henri Lemaitre, a Jesuit priest, was the “Father of the Big Bang”. It’s not like one has to have their head up one’s ass to be a Christian. And just because one isn’t a Christian or of some other faith doesn’t mean that that person isn’t deeply spiritual, perhaps even closer to “God” than most Christians.
Re 65
See, this is difficult for someone like you to believe, so it seems a waste of time. But I’m a patient and relatively kind guy, so will try to help you.
The ‘others’ are the simple recognition that no human system of knowledge is perfectable. I can study literature and biology and sociology and find in the confluences something important.
You’re too hung up on the ‘if I can’t see it, smell it, or taste it, it doesn’t exist’ theory.
I studies once the notion of phlogiston. In the 1800’s scientists kwew heat transferred from one medium to another. But they didn’t know how. So they made up an invisible and weightless fluid that did the job. Phlogiston. How many of your pet theories will be punchlines in the text books of the next century, Witz?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Uncle, than are dreamt of in your science.
Steve,
I wasn’t differentiating between religions, christian or otherwise. Uncle Arrogance was trying to be a pale copy of Hitchens and dismissing all spiritual matters as stupid, naive and foolish. That was what I was responding to.
“How many of your pet theories will be punchlines in the text books of the next century, Witz?”
Will your own God shrink in size with each new scientific discovery? Will each fossil fish with feet knock your God down a notch? Or will you stubbornly cling to the view of God as once held by bronze age sheep herders?
So why is it difficult Lost? We’re all adults here and fairly well educated. Please tell us your secrets. And spare us your notions that “no human system of knowledge is perfectible”. It’s the only system of knowledge we have. So let’s work with it.
I’m happy to admit that things exist outside the contact of our sensory limitations. What I don’t subscribe to is just making shit up, like the Biblical accounts of creation and existentialism.
I’m happy to discuss this, but let’s lose the mysticism and get down to what we can apprehend.
Steve,
My brother is a scientist managing a medical lab. A friend holds a doctorate in inorganic chemistry and works at Hanford. Another friend has a masters in forestries.
I can’t pretend to be that well educated, but do enjoy long discussions about their relative fields with each of these men.
Their knowledge of science informs their faith. It doesn’t diminish it. With each new piece of the universal puzzle they see a new intimation of the creator.
Do tell Lost, what are my pet theories? Seems you are doing a lot of projection here. Particularly since a lot of the “pet theories” of the orthodoxy have indeed become punch lines in our modern world view.
What theories of the religious orthodoxy have stood the test of time and are still held in high regard outside the fundamentalist realm?
Re 70
My secrets? I don’t have any. I don’t pretend to be a repository for arcane knowledge, or the voice of God on earth.
I am as well educated as most, both in formal schooling and in a lifelong enjoyment of studying various disciplines. Do I have a home chemistry lab in which I nightly tinker? No. But the mistake you make is in assuming everyone not actively involved in the sciences is an idiot.
Science is historically full of ‘making shit up.’ It is the search for one kind of knowledge, and one that has improved mens lives immeasurably. But it isn’t infallible and it isn’t limitless.
All due respect to your brother Lost. But there is no intimation of a creator in their discoveries. Only the increasingly smaller “God of the gaps”. No “Creator” explains those diminishing areas of our understanding.
This may be a satisfying solution to you. Bur it simply does not resolve the issue.
I’m still struggling with your initial premise Lost. “That since we can’t explain everything we encounter in our sensory world, we should accept, or at least tolerate the palpably absurd and easily disprovable dogma of the Christian Church and their many spawn such as the Seventh Day Adventists.”
Fine with me Lost. You go girl! But I’m not with ya’. It’s hogwash to me and until you can offer something more defensible than “we can’t be sure”. I’m out.
Call me when you’ve got something more substantial.
Jeez, did we lose poor Puddy in the dust or what?
I am a simple leftist Christian. I will leap into the fray and say I believe in both science and religion. As an existentialist, I must pay tribute to Kierkegaard, who posited the leap of faith. Then, Camus came along and, while not quite Christian, suggested that faith, of some sort, was not the worst path to follow. Jesus Christ, of course, was a socialist. He didn’t much care for wars, tax cuts, or environmental degradation. He currently does not seem to have a good PR agent in this country.
“Then, Camus came along”
Indeed he did.
Steve @ 78
I still read The Stranger and The Fall every couple of years. I should have them memorized pretty soon. Ah, then, there is that little essay, “The Myth of Sisyphus . . .”
‘Fear and Trembling’ is something I re-read every couple of years. That and Pascals ‘Pensees.’
Another book in similar vein written by a modern philosopher is Reschers ‘Ethical Idealism.’ Superb read about the rational support for Quixotic behavior.
Can’t say I much like Camus. The writing is good, and the thoughts interesting. but something about that dismal period in European letters that brought the world Ionesco just doesn’t do much for me. While understanding the despair or resignation that brought that kind of literature about, it simply doesn’t touch any real cords in me.
Re 75
Not sure that I clearly stated my premise, if that’s how you interpreted it.
In physics every time new discoveries seem to support enthalpy new ones come along that seem to indicate a basic order.
In biology an elegant simplicity of chemical form underlies the apparent chaos of speciation.
I’ve used the analogy before, but can’t think of one more apt to describe how I see it. I don’t look at a great painting and assume an explosion occured in a paint factory. I don’t look at the masterpiece that is the world and assume it came about by cosmic accident.
For me this means Christianity. In part this is because of where I was born and to whom. In part this is the result of a lot of years of questioning and probing what my faith meant and why. I don’t ask you to believe it, I do ask you to be courteous about it.
Re 79
Sisyphus is one thing Camus wrote I enjoyed on a personal level, as well as for the quality of writing and ideas.
Dostoevski wrote something similar I’ve vaguely remembered for years. Christ comes to earth a second time, and is immediately imprisoned by the Catholic church. Might be inset into some other work of his, Houses of the Dead or something. I don’t know. But it had that towering pschological force Dostoevski did so well. Wish I could find it.
Lostasever:
I appreciate the rather candid admission that you are a Christian for the same reason all others are; it’s a cultural artifact of your upbringing. But I can’t imagine you probed it very far or questioned it very hard.
The Biblical explanation of cosmology simply makes no sense, and it explains nothing. It’s just another creation myth passed down from an insignificant tribe of iron age sheepherders. It just happened to be bolted onto another elaborate myth of death and resurrection that was adapted by the ruling power structure (rather deftly I might add) to organize societal norms to their advantage.
It worked moderately well for centuries. But it doesn’t work anymore. It’s turned into pure poison by dividing and distracting us from the real problems we face in our own time.
@81. lostinaseaofblue spews:
May I try to help?
This si a great statement of faith! If the physicist can discover the basic laws, then those laws must exist. I am that I am!
The only chaos of speciation is the specious ideas that they exist other than as convenient ways to classify other forms of life. My miracle you ought to look for is that all life, at least all life on this planet, has such a simple, common code.
Isn’t genetics .. the underlying rules of how life forms evolve, enough to make you believe there is a reality? Isn’t My reality, wondrous to you?
Nor do scientists say the paintings come to be by accident.
Adding a layer of personality to reality is taking My name in vain.
There is nothing wrong in any belief unless that belief undermines My law.
1. I am the only reality. Do not take My name in vain.
2. Presuming to know all that I am, and forcing others to use your views of “all,” takes My name in vain.
3. Since I am the only reality, there can be no miracles, only wonders.
4. The only true insight into Me is through experiment. Experiments you call science are no different from experiments of introspection. All experiments find truth only in the reproducible.
5. Any beliefs you have that harm other humans are wrong.
6. I do not reward or punish.
7. There are laws, natural laws, for men just as there are natural laws for how planets move.
8. One such law is the requirement to learn My reality.
Where does this leave you as a Christian?
I am that I am.
@ 83 UWitz
Are you too limited in your view?
The older of these .. the Torah and the Vedas, hold truths just as certainly as do the layers of rock discovered in a geologist’s cores.
It is no more reasonable to say the myths have no value than it is to fail to see the meaning in the light of a star coming to the Earth millenia after the star may be gone.
Someone, millenia ago, wondered how man came to be. With limited tools and not much knowledge, a myth was born. Still, that knowledge is different from the knowledge man has now. Is it not worth your effort to seek that ancient knowledge?
@85, “God”: Ummmm, NO!
Gee Zotz, you sound like me!
Ignorance is bliss!
Lee’s sockpuppet.
@81: Lost
I do respect anyone who has religious beliefs and does not try to force them on anyone else. Religion is a private matter and is not necessarily diametrically opposed to science.
On the other hand, the people who believe literally in the bible, think the world was created 6,000 years ago and try to force their beliefs on others….well, they just annoy me because most of them shut out any scientific information.
@79 The Plague was my favorite. I used to quote passages from that one.
“The suffering of children was the bread of our affliction, and yet without this bread, we would die of spiritual hunger.”
Or something like that.
@88 CnotR
They violate even their own bible.
If I reveal truth to a scientist, why would any believer reject my current revelation for words written millenia ago?
To reject science and force your human views on others is to take My name in vain.
I am that I am.