Exodus 21:7
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.
Discuss.
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Goldy–
Have you ever been involved in a discussion about what the word “slave” meant in context of the Old Testament Hebrew Slavery in the Law of Moses? As a Jew, you should have had this training.
Here’s a discussion for you to reflect on–
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qnoslave.html
Rootless Atheist Progressives hate the God of the Bible so much that they blindly focus on terms as defined in today’s language. Intellectually anemic. You need to search the root of these terms in context of the times and that much of the Bible includes historical records of beliefs at the time.
Good Morning Cynical!
“Intellectually anemic.” Now that’s rich. It’s not the atheist progressives like myself that believe in fairy tales, or feel that our society should be guided by the mythology of a bronze age nomadic tribe. (Though I must say, “Do not kill” is a good one. I do assume you approve of killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of (mostly black) American felons. How does that commandment thingy work again?)
As Monty Python sez (forgive the paraphrase): “Strange women lying on the bottom of ponds distributing weaponry is no basis for a system of government.”
Moreover, I believe that the salient part of this particular passage regards the gender inequity inherent in nomadic societies inhabiting the Near East several thousand years ago, which provides us an opportunity for a discussion of modern injustice and how we might rationally craft a society that avoids or rights such wrongs.
Focusing on the term “slave” and attempting to direct the conversation to some inadequacy in goldys “Jew-ness” is both misapprehending the point of the discussion and condescendingly prick-ish. You are nothing if not consistent.
I would direct you to your “Christian Think Tank” friend’s “Ethical Vectors (or whatever that means):
#5 Distortion, misrepresentation, or deception through omission are unethical.
#13 Chronic ignorance can become irresponsibility, and chronic irresponsibly can become a moral failure.
@ sillical
If the word “slave” in that context means what you say it means, why was it translated into that word and not something else, like say, “employee” perhaps? Maybe even “associate”.
Slave in the bible, old and new testament, means exactly that which it means in the modern context. To this day, some modern extreme orthodox jewish cults hold their women as literal slaves, as property. Unable to vote, Forbidden education, unable to associate with men except in the course of working for the household, even exempt from the mandatory military service accorded to secular jews in Isreal.
New York has several of these cults, as does the settlement areas of northeastern Isreal. The mormons do it, and there are may instances of christian cultists doing this.
Pretending to know anything about something you obviously know so little about is the pinnacle of ignorance, Cyn. It’s why intelligent people spend so much time laughing at you and shaking their heads. You’re just a total dumbfuck.
A KLOWN sez, “Have you ever been involved in a discussion about what the word “slave” meant in context of the Old Testament Hebrew Slavery in the Law of Moses?”
Did you even read your own link?
“Exodus 21:7-11 specifically seeks to regulate cases involving Israelite women/girls who were sold by their fathers as female slaves (amot), presumably because of debt.”
Dumbfuck KLOWN.
Goldy provided a correctly translated verse. Here’s the “politically correct” KJV:
With a couple of exceptions, everywhere you read “servant” in the KJV really means “slave” — including the so called “New” testament where Jesus is quoted as advocating the beating of slaves to keep them in line.
That’s right: the admonition to do unto others… doesn’t apply to slaves. The gospel of love is a lie.
Oh noes!
King Arthur: I am your king [LORD].
Woman: Well I didn’t vote for you.
King Arthur: You don’t vote for kings.
Woman: Well how’d you become king then?
[Angelic music plays… ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.
Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lyin’ in ponds distributin’ swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony
But, but, things were so much better back in th bronze age…
Some of us are old enough to remember that the crackers protested desegregation as a slam on their “culture” and that segrahgatin’ nigrahs was part of God’s plan. The bible says so!
They were in fact ignorant, evil motherfuckers like Klynical.
But sadly, they were correct.
Happy 4th of July everyone!
Hey Goldy, man up and pick on the Koran once in a while.
Oh, that’s right. The Christians won’t declare a fatwa on you and yours. Them cheek turners are a safe target. Coward.
This is an interesting site:
@11
Vastly more people in this country hold up the Bible as the “revealed word of god” than the Koran, and assert that it should be a foundational document in our government and culture.
Your attempt at deflection, apparently hoping that their religious tome is crazier than yours, and that that is somehow good for your argument, is telling.
@11
Is this the sort of “cheek turning” christianists of which you speak?
@5: Good one. But here’s a wrinkle some might not have considered:
Those female slaves weren’t just cookin’ and cleanin’ for massa’ — they served his, shall we say, “carnal needs” as well.
Hence, they were likely “defiled” with another man’s “seed” and therefore unclean. Used goods.
These are sick, twisted people.
@11
Or this
Since I am that I am, why would anyone of you demean Me by accepting the errors of your own making as my truths?
Was Jefferson speaking for Me when he said, “All men are created equal?’
or is it My law that women be sold as slaves?
@ 11 delbert
York, Torquemada, Henry Ford, Constantine … ???
@1 Mr. Cynical
and would mr. Cynical sell his daughter into this sort of slavery?
Do not demean Me by accepting the errors of your own making as My truths?
@4. Deathfrogg spews bullshit
@ sillical
bullshit
no comment
“Them cheek turners are a safe target.”
Ah, yes. Those cheek turners. That would be the ones who invaded two countries leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of totally innocent people for the act of a couple dozen homicidal maniacs juiced up on religious texts that are just different versions of the same crap you pledge your allegiance to?
Walk up to a grieving relative of those killed by our unmanned drones at a wedding party and call them a ‘coward’.
You are one sick fuck.
KKKlown,
Have the sycophants at christian-thinktank.com gotten around to parsing the word “kill” yet?
SJ,
“bullshit”? Perhaps. But even a cursory look at extremist jewish religious cults (Neturei Karta, for example) is enough to raise eyebrows.
delbert has fatwa envy.
@22
I think you hit the nail right on the head.
@22
In fact, down deep in the core of many of our authoritarian, Republican and christianist friends (I know, overlapping to a great degree) lies a desire for the fatwa, for the ability to meet challenge with violence.
@24
…he said, anticipating howls of protest from liberal religious friends…
@11
The Christians won’t declare a fatwa on you and yours.
All the ones that rejoice when a abortion provider is killed already have.
You see, the problem isn’t Christians, Muslims, or Jews. The problem is fundamentalist Christians, Muslims, and Jews.
@21 Proud to be an ass
I am not defending our orthodox nuts ..
BUT …
OJ woman have and have always had a very priviliged role in their society and certainly were not and are not chattel.
One of our underlying problmes as Americans is our accptance of Christian principles as if they were natural or normal. This inlcudes the acceptance of evangelims as a good thing, ignorance of female leadership roles as equla or higher than in male in other societies, etc.
In OJ ..
1. the holiest act i n Judaism is the lighting of shabat candles by women .. men can not do this.
2. women certainly can serve as “rabbis” in the tradional sense of being learned in the Law. The prohibition in OJ is for for leading the (male) congregation in study.
@26 26. Michael spews
No … holy war .. crusades, fatwas, jihads … these are Christian and Muslim and tied t the imperialist origins those religions. It is not accidental that the symbols of the Muslims and the Christians are reproduced as their weapons .. the scimitar and the long sword.
Leaving aside the mythological era of tribal war, jews .. as well as Buddhist, Hindus, and virtually all religious have never practiced religious war.
To non Trolldom
Is it interesting that the presence of God in this thread seems to drive the trolls out?
Almost enough to make me a believer!
It’s obvious what this is talking about. This is talking about the daughter who doesn’t put out for Daddy. That is the one you sell. The daughter who puts out for Daddy you don’t sell. See also Lot and his daughters.
SJ blabbed
NOPE. It’s the perverted view of the progressive regarding Jesus and God that drives Christians away.
BTW the VA lady did light the Friday Shabbat candles and she had a pretty good singing voice.
@29: Agree.
Not to be a bother, but Judaism and religious war are not exactly strangers-if the Old Testament is in any way to be believed.
Hindus and Buddhists are also not strangers to religious war. Your observation about Christianity and Mohammedanism being spread by the sword is also true. The larger point may be that extremist religion + state power is not a good combination.
Double post because the edit function is failing again…SJ blabbed
NOPE. It’s the perverted view of the progressive regarding Jesus and God that drives Christians away. Witness this fool@30
One can readily tell this MORON didn’t read the story, or has a perverted view of his daughters since he thinks this way about others!
BTW the VA lady did light the Friday Shabbat candles and she had a pretty good singing voice.
puddy blathers: ” It’s the perverted view of the progressive regarding Jesus and God that drives Christians away.” If that’s true, then why are you still here? Oh, right, you’re not really a Christian.
puddy: still not inheriting the earth.
Nice try FartASS… Wrong as always… The CATHOLIC church did this with their perverted view of Christianity. The CATHOLIC church led the crusades. The CATHOLIC church attacked the Protestants as heretics. The CATHOLIC church burned Joan D’Arc at the stake. Protestant churches didn’t proselyze by the sword, the CATHOLIC church did!
Once again all can see the perverted mind of a progressive.
Facts always seem to elude you.
rob,
Another moron who wakes up hating Jesus the Son of God. Well Jesus doesn’t hate you Rob until the final judgment. Then you’ll be judged.
BTW Puddy wants to inherit HEAVEN. When you understand that fact… Well that fact always eludes you…
@32 Proud to be an Ass
First the “OT” is nOT a jewish bible .. it is a christian one.
For ALL jews, the only revelation .. the only “truth” is the Torah.
Second, the historic legends of the Christian Bible are just that .. legends of the times when the hebrew people were forming. Some are true, some are not but they never deal with the concept of forced conversion .. that has always been an anathema in Judaism .. even in the legendary period.
Third, I am a pretty fair historian and WADR, the religious wars of conquest … the crusades and the wars fought by Umar and his successors, are unique. I do not think you can find a single example from any other culture where a religion has claimed the god-given right to impose itself on others.
Frankly, the idea of forced conversion is well .. a very Christian idea!
@35 Puddy is FOS
This is utter BS. The wars of religious extermination in the US were led by protestants. Protestants also forced conversion of catholics … that is the Christian tradition, when their church was triumphant … look at English history.
Atrocities committed by missionaries were the norm in all of Africa .. almost solely led by Christians.
Look at the wotch burnings of Salem and modern Africa!
Talk to any local natives about how protestants treated them!
Part of the horror of Christianity for those of us who are not of your faith, is its willingness to eschew its own guilt.
SJ for a “pretty fair historian and WADR, the religious wars of conquest”
Wrong again SJ… It’s a CATHOLIC church idea, like the one when you die you go to heaven. Found nowhere in the Bible!
Puddy
Seems to me you are depicting a pretty evil diety.
Maybe you need to talk with the God here!
Puddy:
Yet you never address Me?
and .. you take My name in vain when you claim I would punish people merely for not calling on Me as Jesus.
I am that I am.
Wow SJ, you shock and amaze me. The early converts of the Protestant church got the IDEA from the CATHOLIC church. They were brought up to treat the “savages” as such. Same for how the European white man treated the Indians. If you dare to compare the Quakers and Mennonites they were the real early US Christians.
So much for that “vaulted historian view”.
Gotta go lawn needs mowing before it rains!
There goes SeattleJew imitating God again. When Jesus comes in His clouds of Glory what will you say then “god”, since on this blog you never “discuss” your Son, your Only Begotton Son!
This will be interesting.
Puddy prays to the real God, who lives in the 3rd Heaven!
@28
Sorry, but fundi Jews are part of our current problems in the world.
@35 and @42
What utter bullshit Puddy.
Internecine, interchristianist hatred is very interesting to see.
Wasn’t venomous anti-Catholic bigotry a pillar of the KKK?
SJ’s point about the endless list of violent atrocities committed in “god’s” name by both Catholics and Protestants is quite on point – religious fantasy, imperialism, racism, violence and conquest are so intertwined as to be facets of a single whole.
And SJ, I wouldn’t be too smug when decrying christian atrocities,
I think the Palestinians would take issue with that statement. “God” never gave anything to anybody.
Areyou kidding, Pud? Forced conversion is a Catholic idea!?!? Tell it to the Irish.
@ 45 Liberla Scientist
Now you are teetering on anti semitism.
1. Israel was estaboished by SECULAR Jews as a home for OUR people. The idea that Israel has some sort of divine right to exist is and has been Christian .. esp, Protestant.
2. jews .. as jews or as Israelis, NEVER enforce religion on nayone. Mulsims in Israel have FULL freedom of religion .. in contrast, with the aexcpetion of Morooco, I am not sure there is any Mulsim ocuntry that gives jews full freedom of religion and we are not even allowed in to certain Muslim countries.
3. Medina (Yathrib) was Jewish city before the Prophet committed ethnic cleansing and killed or enslaved all Jews who did not convert.
@44 Micheal
What utter BS. Fundie Jews are a tiny, tiny number of people. There are fundies in the settler movement and they are a problem but even if every last one of these folk were removed this would have a marginal effect on the underlying irredentism of the Palestinians.
BTW, a large part of the fundie community is anti-Israel!
Hmm… Having been to both a mega-church and a Catholic Church , I’d say that went down at th Catholic Church was far closer and truer to Christian belief and tradition than the mega-church. Yet Puddy calls the Catholics the perversion.
Puddy
42. Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:
Since the Roman Church preceded all the rest of your religion, ALL of it needs to trace that route.
As for the idea that Quakers and Mennonites founded US Christianity … you seem to be coming closer to Lee all the time in denying reality. Are you his sockpuppet?
As for your comments to God, seems to me that whoever this God is, He or She is a lot more gentle with you than your Jesus is on others.
I find it odd that you are frightened of such a gentle voice but it seems as if She or He is not at all frightened of you.
The God who appears on HA seems even unafraid of the terrible wrath of your jealous God.
Interesting stuff here….
Catholics are not Christians.
Calvin and Luther did not believe in “going to” heaven, and possibly cannot even be considered Protestants.
Zionists may have possibly picked Palestine to be the jewish “homeland” at random.(but true, Jews and forced conversion is not applicable, even in the Biblical tales–ethnic cleansing? Well, that may be a different matter.)
SJ: BTW, a large part of the fundie community is anti-Israel!
Both amazing and true!
Puddy prays to the real God, who lives in the 3rd Heaven!
Can you provide the zip code? MapQwest can’t find it.
sj spewed:
Yeah, but they run Israel and control American foreign policy to our and the world’s detriment.
Have you been paying attention at all lately?
Of cousre there are still the old style anti-semites (like Nixon, Prescott Bush, the KKK, etc.) but our present day fundies (e.g., Palin et al) have made common cause with the jewish fundies. It’s part and parcel of their common apocalyptic, potentially self-fulfilling, end-times mythology, e.g., “rebuilding the temple” heralds jesu’s return. You’re aware that they intend to kill all of you who don’t convert when the time comes?
Pudpuller, Klynical and their ilk are truly dangerous people who should be isolated from society. Fortunately, we’ll have lots of room for them in the FEMA camps!
@51 PTBAA
Actually there were debates amongst the Zionists as to where to esatablish Israel.
BTW, the name “Palstine” is itself anti-semitic in origin. It ocmes form the latin “Phiistia” and is a word invented by them as part of the effort at ethnic cleansing of Israel.
Until 1948, “Palestinians” referred to Jews living in Paelstine .. no Arab whould have wanted that term as there was no Arab ocncept of Palestine as a nationality or homeland. That LACK of anyone, but Jews, considering this place as their homeland was a critical arguemnt for creating Israel in its ancient home.
Even today, the great majority of Israelis are secular jews or atheists who consider themselves jewish in the samne sense as Japanese, Korean, Frnch, or Sciillian consider themsleves to be peoples with lands.
As for
Luther was a viscious anti semite. Luther may have sought escpae from Papal authority, but he preached a very pagan religon based on deicide, sacrifice and a life after death. His ideas, if not his own hands, share the blood of Hitler’s victims.
@47
Bullshit.
While violent imperialism is so often a facet of both historical as well as contemporary christianity, they are not the only offenders.
To my mind ethnic based chauvinism is essentially indistinguishable from religious based chauvinism.
There were already people there, and they seem to have been treated rather poorly.
My point is that making comparisons between religious/ethnic groups, ranking comparative atrocities and condemning over degrees of whose bad behavior was worse, only perpetuates the problem. Until we begin to see one another as fellow humans all deserving of respect and all in the same boat, and proceed with rationality rather than myths which divide and enslave us, then we’re doomed.
What a libtardo you are Liberal Scientist. You think the KKK is a religion? You worshipped the words of Robert 3 Sheets In the Wind Grand Kleagle Byrd so Puddy can understand that comment.
K, which Irish side are you discussing here? Hmmm?
Try again?
This is utter bullshit. Netanyahoo is NOT a fundie .. he is a militant hard liner. Lieberman is even more extreme and I am not even sure he is observant.
54. Zotz spews:
sj spewed:
Fundie Jews are a tiny, tiny number of people.
Yeah, but they run Israel and control American foreign policy to our and the world’s detriment.
You need to read more. Both Iran and Arafat have had fundies as their allies.
Maybe you ought to rad my blog .. SeattleJew.
Like most Jews I eschew Pain et al. Her allies in the Jewish world come from the same POV as those who allied us with SA. If all the Xtain /Muslim world wants to exterminate us, some of us will turn even to Palin.
Michael, Ask the HA arschloch why he left Catholicism, the mother church of his mother.
Also read John Foxe’s Book of Martyrs. Enjoy your education by Puddy!!!
BTW Puddy didn’t say Catholics are not Christians. Puddy said the Catholic church. You libtardos love to twist what Puddy wrote for your own benefit.
BUTT FACTS ARE FACTS! They elude libtardos everyday in everyway!
I see you are continuing your long tradition of being an ass, Pud. Using your own tactics, figure out the Irish situation yourself. Look at your own post I was referring to. I’m not here to educate you. And I’m off to the parade.
FartAss really doesn’t know his Bible too well, IF AT ALL.
2 Corinthians 12:2 (King James Version) I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
So you don’t get lost with Facts FartASS
1st heaven: The atmosphere, the “blue sky”, where the birds (made by God and planes made by man) fly.
2nd heaven: The space / universe, where the stars, planets, and other celestial bodies are located.
3rd heaven: Where God dwells on his throne
IHTHs since you are a certified lunatic!
K,
Another good try. Puddy said the Catholic Church. Go back and reread the PuddyComments. Twist in the wind like you always do. Deflect like you always do. Obfuscate the issue as always. That Cornell liberal arts education does you well here.
While you are at the parade, will you wave the flag or be like most America hating progressives and burn it?
56. Liberal Scientist spews:
No …
Israel is a lot like Warsaw .. a gettho. If the Christian and Muslim worlds did not persecute us, then Israel would never have come to be reborn.
To blame our religon for our people’s fight to survive is .. bigotry.
I never said that. BUT. ONLY Christianity and its cousin Islam have ever practiced RELIGIOUS imperialism. Oddly, Communism seems to have inheritted that idea as well.
Tell that to the Tibetans, the Irish, the naitve americans, Zoroastrians ….
CULTURAL genocide is a very Christian trait.
I never said there were not other people there … BYT those people did not consider this their homeland. The only people living in Palestine before zinosim who did consider this place a himeland were the Jews, the Druise, and some Bedouins ..all of whom have been disenfranchised under Jordanian/Egyptian rule.
Sorry, I disagree strongly. Jefferson understood this and saw America as an exemplar the enlightnement… ideas spread by example rather than by force.
ALL Americans share the guilt for Christian Impwerialism, for the belief that our ideas can be spread by force. Until the rest of us accept that guilt we ALL share for European/Christian cultural imperialism, the only paths to peace will be lubricated by blood and gore.
Puddy …
What humor!
Do you actually think I, the sole deity, need a throne?
Stand up,
Turn around.
look where you sat.
That is My throne.
I am that I am.
Zotz, don’t stop with Nixon…
Let’s move forward Zitz!
You forgot your heroine Cynthia McKinney
You forgot your hero Earl Hilliard – Artur Davis was attacked by Hilliard in a flyer “Davis and the Jews, No Good for the Black Belt.” Hilliard had the jockstrap of 24 Back Congressional Caucii members!
You forgot Hymietown Jesse Jackson
You forgot James Moran
You forgot Ernest Hollings
Shall Puddy keep going Zitz? The list is very long!
Still waiting for god to discuss His Only Begotton Son Jesus… who died for my sins!
sj spewed:
Umm, OK (apt spelling, BTW).
Do you dispute that Benny is in power because of the extremist religious parties?
Do you deny that he and his party have actively facilitated the “settler” extremists’ agenda?
That was, well, clumsy deflection. You’re better than that.
…allied “us” with SA… That was a telling remark.
You’re American, correct? I had assumed you were not a fundie, at least rational. Maybe I was mistaken. “Most” jews are not at issue, sj. My comment was intended to underscore the common psychotic ideology of whatever monotheistic persuasion.
“Even today, the great majority of Israelis are…”
…people who consider themselves jewish and firmly believe they are entitled to a state where they call all the political shots, which is frankly an extreme form of ethnic nationalism that is rightly condemned just about everywhere else, and is a concept that is one of the greatest tragedies of 19th century thought. Woody Wilson unleashed this nonsense on the world at Versailles.
Frankly, the idea of a “jewish state” in a land where they constitute the minority is simply an oxymoron, and population trends forecast it will only get worse as Israel will be faced with the decision of choosing between apartheid or genocide wrt the Palestinians.
SJ: “The only people living in Palestine before zinosim who did consider this place a himeland were the Jews (and a couple others)”
Right out of the discredited Joan Peters play book.
Next you’ll tell us they all just got up and left Israel in ’48 on a whim.
@64
Wow.
I’m not sure what you’re saying here. How is ethnic cleansing worse/not as bad (I’m not clear which position you’re taking) as religious cleansing?
Is the fact that Ireland was a net food exporter (beef, mostly, I believe, from British owned estates) during the famine morally different from children in Gaza being made food-insecure (PC for starving, I believe) by the blockade?
Is the fact that they called it “home” instead of “a homeland” somehow inferior?
I again am not at all clear on your point here…Jefferson condoned carrying ethnic or religious grudges? He thought that one groups bad acts were somehow negated by another group’s worse act in the same vein? That makes no sense.
Hey Zitz,
Puddy sees you ran back to your Al Qaeda cave…
You forgot to mention those 10 DUMMOCRAPTIC Senators who didn’t sign the We Support Israel Letter regarding the IHH Flotilla which Lee got so wrong AGAIN!
Shall Puddy keep going Zitz? The list is still long.
To the “person” playing God…
You “said” about Your only begotton Son Jesus
“This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased”
“This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him”
So why can’t you acknowledge this now on this blog?
It’s very cathartic to see all the Jew progressives which SeattleJew (SJ) seems to love hanging out with tear him a new one over Judiasm.
Very telling with whom you hang with!
dingbat @ 74: Yes, you who screech the distinction between THE CATHOLIC CHURCH and Catholicism calls those who find a distinction between Zionism and Judaism guilty of being anti-semitic.
Loser.
Still waiting for that zip code.
@74
You are a complete fool. Worse, actually.
So we’re all “Jew Progressives”? You are a foul person if you think either ‘Jew’ or ‘progressive’ is an epithet.
As I understand the virtues espoused by christianity, you embody none of them. Like I’ve said before, religion is dispensable for morality, and the most vocally religious are often the most awful.
Ha! puddy @36 admits that he’s not among those who will inherit the earth. He thinks he’s gonna inherit HEAVEN, but if they’ll let him in they’ll let anyone in, so that don’t mean much. And by his own admission, he’s not a CHRISTIAN, since he said that our views drive Christians away, but he’s still here.
And then there’s puddy saying he has to go mow the lawn, but he’s posting again two minutes later. I guess puddy’s lawn in like his mind, very very small.
SJ,
According to Wendell Berry a fundimentalist is someone that can’t see the difference between drinking a shot and drinking the whole 5th. When I speak of fundamentalists this is what I’m speaking of.
@77
Puddy’s a Republican, he has an ileagal alien mow his lawn.
@68
@68 Zotz and Proud of Ass
Like most Jews I belive Israel’s accommodation with the Apartheid regime was wrong. However, Israel is a real country and when any country is pushed to the wall it makes immoral choices .. eg the US and China today, the US vs Italy BEFORE the axis, Sweden and Hitler (WWII), etc etc.
Israelis voted for Benny for much the same reason. When the irredentist arabs refuse any answer other than annihilation, the Israelis will make such choice because we bleed just like tou humans do.
My comment about Jews being the only nationalism amongst Palestinians before 48 is a simple fact. Read.
As fo the rest of your comment, jews are a people. Unless you think Kurds, Tibetans, Japanese, Koreans, Lummi, Inuit, … unless you think none of these have a right to a country where their ethnic group is in the majority, then I need to assume you think Jews are not like other Peoples?
@71 71. Liberal Scientist spews:
We are NOT a religion .. we are a people. The Brits tried to destroy the Irish PEOPLE by their laws and by importing Scots. the cultural genocide of Americans was NOT just a matte of religion. China is settling Han in Tibet as well as blocking their religion, etc.
Lib Sci
Hugely.
The Irish were no danger to England, Wales of Scotland.
The blockade is the result of Hamas unilateral declaration of war.
What would you do if you were an Israeli?
This liberal scientist is a first class moron. A Jew progressive to Puddy is one who hates Jews, you idiot! That’s you, through and through! You progressives were up front and center when the first IHH flotilla reports were placed on this blog by Lee. When the truth came out you were all MUM over the real story. Where Puddy placed the truth on this blog fools like you had nuthin to say!
Nuff SAID Sucka
We neocons are 100% behind Israel, we don’t split hairs between Zionism or Judiasm like liberal scientist progressive fools.
Keep trying to put words on this blog which Puddy never said! You EPIC FAIL like always.
Michael is an idiot. Puddy mows his own lawn.
Why do you hate America Michael?
Lib Sci
what do you not understand about Jefferson?
He believed in America as a continental power, achieved by example rather than by war. However, he also believed in defensive war .. as in his war against the Barbary Pirates.
When it came tk the concept of indeopendent peoples, remember Jefferson supported liberation of Canada and seemingly was never concerned about the dispossession of LOYALIST Englishman from their homes and property. I think it is a safe bet he, as a colonialist himself, would have seen the Israelis and the Arabs as both beinbg able to live in one place but as independent people.
In 1948, the Arabs States invaded Israel and when they did so they annexed the land we now call “Palestinian” to THEIR countries. Jordan, if course was a Hashemite (Saudi) Kingdom and Egypt was hardly a “Palestinian” state. I suspect, Jefferson would have supported what most liberals of that time did ..a two state solution.
Puddy
So you are now a “neocon????” why do I have trouble lumping you with the Palins and Chaney’s?
Zots
Not clumsy on my part. You simply do not understand. Zionism has never had a sizeable religious component. The orthodox community has been the least supportive of Israel because they do not see it a their idea of a Davidic state.
The conflict is actually rather simple:
Two peoples claim one piece of land. Both want THEIR ethnic homeland. Right and Wrong do not matter any more than they do in Northern Ireland or Latvia.
BTW .. I assume you are aware that the Baltic countries have been using ethnic cleansing to de-russify their ethnic countries?
They are not alone in this … Quebec will let anyone live there BUT, the immigrants need to become French. japan, Korea nad even India have very strict laws on who can become a citizen and member of their societies,
FWIW, anyone who wished to do so can become a jew and then will have the same right of return as I do.
I think that those who criticize Israel for wantuing to be Jewish state either think we are a religion or confuse being a citgizen of Israel .. an ethnic state witrh beinbg a citizen of thre US,
Puddy is confused …
@ 73.
Puddy confuses the word of Gos with Puddy’s willingness to accept the version of that word established by Emperpro Constantine.
Where does “God” ever say that .. even in your Roman Bible? Or do you mean some person claimed that for himself? Why would you believe that person more than you believe the God who talks to you here?
And WHO utters those words? according to the Torah, God is not suposed to make any revelaions after the Torah. Do you reject that?
Don’t you think it is ratrher arrognat for you to demand that God accept YOUR views? Semms like your rules look like this:
God is very strict.
I know what God wants people to believe.
Anyone who does not agree with me is going to be punished by God.
@33
You da MORON!
Puddy–
It is kind of depressing reading the venom of the Godless Progressives. Mocking & ridiculing God seems so….desperate.
We need to continue to pray for these folks.
God never gave up on me…so we can’t give up on self-proclaimed intellectuals like SJ.
I’m sure he is angry about his health problems which have severely impacted the quality of his life.
I guess it’s easy to take the anger & frustration out on the God of the Bible since SJ cannot see him or intellectualize His existence. Don’t give up on SJ. We have 2 Jews who joined our Evangelical Church last year and are very active members….and they openly declare their love of Christ and accpetance of the fact that Christ is the ONLY way to the Father. Praise God!
Puddy–
We have a Saturday 7 AM Mens Bible Study/Fellowship at a Truckstop near our place. Great breakfast. Even greater discussion. We discuss our Pastor’s sermon from the prior Sunday and openly share things about our lives. It’s evolving into an accountability group. I shared how I spend time taking jabs at the HA crowd this Saturday.
It was overwhelmingly/unanimously rejected as a waste of time and not something God would want me to do. Interesting. There are sometimes 10 of us from all walks of life.
All have at times witnessed to hard-hearted Atheists like YLB, SJ and most of the others.
You can only do so much and then pray that the Holy Spirit soften their heart.
I think that is good advice…although it is fun to poke at them. Fun,,but non-productive.
Anyway, I’m mulling over my Brothers’ advice.
Perhaps it’s time to say good-bye to them.
Is the old e-mail address you gave me still good Puddy??
SJ,
When you sat down and broke bread with Mr & Mrs Puddy you knew then we were neocons. Puddy been a neocon on this board forever. Just ask the HA arschloch, you know, the fool with the personal HA database we discussed at HA DL the other day!
Well it seems God made many revelations after the Torah. God told Samuel Israel didn’t reject Samuel as prophet, Israel rejected God as their “king”. They wanted a man for King, like the other nations had. Or when God talked to Elijah using the still small voice and told Elijah 7000 had not bowed to Baal. Or when God talked to Jeremiah. There are so many revelations from God in the Old Testament which proved God talked after the Torah.
@94 Puddy
Samuel … is NOT the Jewish bible. It is Jewish fable and history.
Again, Jewish orthodoxy is clear .. Torah == truth. All else is commentary and MUST be within the Torah.
Puddy …
Sorry, I certainloy did not and do not see you as a neocon. Much less the Mrs.
As I understand the neocons, they believe in and imperial Anerica, exerting its leadership much as Great Britain tried to do a century ago. That means they believe in the use of force not just in Iraq but Cuba, Africa, Venezuela, Georgia, Taiwan .. etc.
I have too much respect for you to put you in that cat box.
“Perhaps it’s time to say good-bye to them.”
Good riddance to you, goatfucker.
“We neocons”
To say “we KKKrazy proto-fascists” would be one hell of a lot more truthful. But we don’t get much in the way of truth out of you, a deluded follower of the failed dooms-day prophet, Ellen White.
Good bye to your Bible study group????
You choose your non-stop slander and mean-spiritedness on this comment board over Christian fellowship?
You’re one pathetic wretch!
Now it’s time for me to “witness” a bit. I got handed a pamphlet last night at the fireworks show:
Immortal words of American patriot and free thinker – Thomas Paine.
Puddy will not even acknowledge that he is a sinner. Why does he desire for others to acknowledge other things, why do others expect him to acknowledge any other things. He can’t acknowledge the simplest of things. Puddy before you respond by saying that you never ever denied saying that you do not sin – just come out and say that you are a sinner. So why do you choose to sin?
@99: I snicker when Beckkk says Paine’s his hero. What a fucking moran…
@35 Puddy hatefully spews, “The CATHOLIC church did this with their perverted view of Christianity.”
Wondering about the Catholic-Hate expressed by the self-proclaimed good Christian Puddy here? Eh, it’s actually more of a papacy-hate. You see, Puddy believes that the papacy is the seven-headed beast from the sea described in Revelation 13:1–10. There is a second beast too, the lamb-like beast of the earth from Revelation 13:11–18. Puddy believes that this second beast is the good ol’ USA. So here we have both the papacy and the USA in Revelations. What’s up with this? Well, the USA government causes us all to worship the Papacy by forcing Sunday worship on us rather than Saturday worship. No, really. And to do this, the government will establish a “national Sunday law” and that will cause us all to worship on Sunday. We don’t become Catholics, mind you, but instead join a new state-church that is an “image” of the papacy, and thus, “the image of the beast”.
This is the revelation of the failed prophet, Ellen White. Call it krazy, it is, but this is what Puddy believes. Understand this. It is not Christianity Puddy brings to HA. It is some vile perversion dreamed up in the 19th century by a deluded and irrational American and blindly followed today by the equally deluded and irrational Puddy. And here you thought his belief in a 6,000 year old earth was silly. You don’t know that half of it.
Is this Puddy in a wig?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....34079.html
Puddy doesn’t have to acknowledge anything to a fudgepacker. Puddy only acknowledges Puddy’s short comings to God!
“fudgepacker”
What, no love for the so-called sinner? Sigh! It appears the good Christian Puddy hates both the sin and the sinner. His is truly a religion of hate.
you mean they’ve had slaves for 5000 years? now i’m confused. i thought only us white male, christain amnericans were involved in the slave trade. i thought we invented it. hmmmm, maybe we need to update our school textbooks to reflect the truth. doubt it.
Steve Steve Steve,
There you go again “half-cocked”. Read Foxe’s Book of Martyrs. View what the Catholic Church did. Why did Luther take on the Catholic Church?
Steve Steve Steve,
Once again for such a smart architect you are a moron in the common sense department…
The resident dummy doesn’t know that New York, Minnesota, and Nebraska openly call Sunday “the Sabbath” in their state laws.
And the resident dummy doesn’t know the Live Free or Die state law (New Hampshire) calls Sunday their “Day of Rest”.
And the resident dummy doesn’t know the state with the Edward Kennedy Senate Seat (Massachusetts) has their law calling Sunday the “Lord’s Day”.
Of course our resident dummy didn’t know 46 states restrict the sale of alcoholic beverages on Sunday Blue Law States. The resident dummy loves to attack Puddy while Puddy produces historical facts. Why can’t Steve Steve Steve process historical facts?
The resident dummy didn’t know more than 20 states restrict business activity on Sunday. The resident dummy didn’t know 14 states restrict Sunday horse racing.
The resident dummy didn’t know legal procedures (warrant issuances, process servicing, etc.) are prohibited and can’t be executed on Sunday in 22 states. In 17 states you can’t buy or sell any cars, trucks, motorhomes, etc. on Sunday.
Stay Stupid Steve Steve Steve
From someone who’s continually attacking Puddy with lies and innuendoes Steve Steve Steve? Puddy done turned three cheeks to this fool. Puddy doesn’t bend over and pick up the soap around gman!
Steve Steve Steve’s religion is barking at the moon and drinking his Stupid Solution!
Really SeattleJew Really? Looks like you have another definition polluted by progressivism!
100. Gman spews:
Untrue sir.
He has many times.
If he wasn’t, there is absolutely no reason to have Christ in his life.
You don’t get it, do you?
That’s ok–
Hopefully some day you will…for your sake and the sake of your family.
Steve spewed:
Gman could be a bottom, i.e., packee vice packer. In any case, I see Pudpuller’s offering up his cheeks!
I know one thing: Pudpuller is one fucked up piece of shit for brains religious bigot and hypocrite.
It boggles the mind: the mental contortions Pudpuller requires to execute the hate speech he spews considering he’s also a member of an oft reviled minority (i.e., goatfuckers)!
Butt I bett Klynical and his “brother’s” at the truck stop are down with Pudpuller’s kookiness!
You are truly one sick fuck, Pudpuller. Get help!
Notice how Zitz hasn’t answered the questions above about DUMMOCRAPTS and their Jew hating ways. He skips right past those facts and then tries to go on his hypocrit calling ways. Unfortunately for Zitz, he can’t call some one a hypocrit without looking at his hypocrit ways in the mirror.
For instance, it seems Zitz knows about who’s on bottom or top when it cums to gay sex. Now why is that Zitz? Previous experiences? Why not regale them to us?
Notice when cornered all Zitz has left is ad hominem attacks. Typical live goat munching progressive, stupid and moronic!
You need help dude!
Cynical,
gman wants someone to acknowledge him as an authority on something. EPIC FAIL!
gman is an authority on being confused and completely fucked up in the head.
I know which political party that most Jews in this country identify with.
It isn’t the Republican Party and it sure as hell isn’t the teabagger party.
Yes arschloch, Jews seem to tend to vote for socialism!
Why? Why do the majority of Jews tend to support a party that YOU CLAIM hates them? Jews in my view don’t take kindly to people who hate them.
Could it be that you’re LYING?
Puddy is a bigot and a sinner. And Clynical is a dope to even defend one – all in the name of God. Disrespectful and pitiful. To claim that you are being of God and then speak the way both have spoken is sacrilegious.
If I was of no authority you would definitely ignore me, to not do so makes me the authority that I am. You loose.
Gman has never packed fudge nor has he ever had his fudge packed. But the morons that comment above need to believe so, so they can’t be the bigots that they are. You believe in God, I don’t think so. You are nothing more than the devil and Satan in disguise. So go fuck yourself, even God says so.
Puddy certainly delivered a shitload of the hate-filled krazy as he tries to present old, fading state blue laws as some sort of realization of Revelation’s lamb-like beast of the earth, an American state-church, in the here and now, mind you, that is in the image of an evil papist beast. The short of it? Just put the Catholic church right after America on the list of things an insane Puddy hates most about this world.
“Jews seem to tend to vote for socialism”
heh- From the loon who argues that progressivism is fascism, which in turn is socialism. It takes really weird shit to hold a reality construct like Puddy’s together.
Puddy sez, “Well it seems God made many revelations after the Torah.”
Yeah, like when he told your failed 19th century American prophet Ellen White that world would end in 1843 (oops!), then 1844 (double oops!!), then 1845 (triple oops!!!) and then 1851 (quadruple oops!!!!).
Puddy–
America is fed-up with “progressivism”
Here is another race getting away from the Dems–
Monday, July 05, 2010
And ObaMao is -20 in the Strong Approval Poll.
Their is an enlightening happening in America.
Even young folks are understanding ObaMao and his dishonest Chicago henchmen have been feeding them BS.
Remember when the Leftist Pinheaded KLOWNS were boasting about how they were going to be in power forever and do all kinds of stuff to rich folks? All they got is a Health Care Plan that will be deemed unconstitutional…and TRILLIONS more debt from a real amateur Prez.
Steve Steve Steve, EPIC FAIL AGAIN. Show Puddy where God or Jesus said this.
Puddy will wait.
While Puddy is waiting explain those Sunday laws Puddy smacked you side yo head! Calling them fading laws is another EPIC FAIL.
If they are fading… WHY ARE THEY STILL ON THE BOOKS? WHY WEREN’T THEY REPEALED AND REMOVED?
Yes, Puddy is on the loose, gathering facts smacking your puny head with them every day.
Authority? Slinging BULLSHITTIUM everyone agrees! Ignoring you, then Puddy wouldn’t be answering to your lies and innuendoes about Puddy and those lies would float like the turd you are on water!
You Lose!
Once again Steve Steve Steve does his daily face plant. Puddy already gave you your progressive fascist and socialist heroes of yesteryear who supported Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini before WWII. If you have memory issues… ask your cousin the arschloch… he has his personal copy of the HA database. In it the arschloch will find names and dates of their jockstrapping of Hitler and Mussolini!
The Prosecution Rests Your Honor. This one is a certifiable historical moron!
@126 sounds like Puddy is a violent person…that isn’t very God like, or religious or would be acting in the name of God….sounds like you need to do more than recite a Bible and pretend to be Christian to really be one. Try acting like one.
survey says: bear hunting season is over for gman.
“your progressive fascist and socialist heroes”
The mad ravings of a true lunatic.
“explain those Sunday laws” “Calling them fading laws is another EPIC FAIL”
http://www.historylink.org/ind.....le_id=9057
How does it feel to be pwned? Does it suck for you? I bet it does. If you want, you can talk about it. I promise I won’t laugh at you. heh-
Now it’s your turn do do some explaining. How do a handful of the remaining state blue laws fulfill your failed prophet Ellen White’s ravings about a coming national Sunday law which would prove beyond all doubt that the papacy is the seven-headed beast from the sea and that America is the lamb-like beast of the earth? You’re the one who believes this krazy shit. Explain yourself.
“Show Puddy where God or Jesus said this.”
I never said they did. It was your failed prophet Ellen White who made these predictions of doom. You know that. And you know that they never came to pass. What does the Bible say about false prophets, Puddy?
“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
Revelations 20:10
Sucks to be you, huh, Puddy?
Steve Steve Steve farts
Libtardo Short Term Memory-itis
PuddyEmphasis…
And after that MAJOR MEMORY MISTAKE you expect Puddy to respond to #130 and 131 Steve Steve Steve?
E P I C ^ F A I L!
So Puddy will deconstruct Steve Steve Steve on #130…
Where did Puddy mention Washington State in this thread moron, except just now in response to more BULLSHITTIUM from your fat fingers?
PWNED? By that? Bwaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa hahahahahahahah ahhhhhhhhhh haaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaa
Thanks for the sunny evening laugh!
Keep searching! Goodness this one is a 4th of July idiot on the 5th of July! It really does suck to be you Steve Steve Steve!
Do you quietly drink Steve’s Stupid Solution or do you guzzle it by the half-gallon? Puddy thinks it’s a guzzler in our midst!
Do you use those new Miller spin bottles?
You’re fucking insane. My bad, I suppose, for attempting to converse with a krazy person.
“Where did Puddy mention”
I take it that you’re not even going to attempt to explain how it is that you conclude that our repealed state blue laws validate your failed prophet’s so-called revelation that a national Sunday law makes the case for the papacy being the seven-headed beast from the sea and America the lamb-like beast of the earth. Well, I can agree that it’s best that you don’t go there.
Oh? You say now that your prophet was lying about her revelations? I already knew that to be the case. Here’s a revelation for you. You will deny your prophet Ellen White twice more before the cock crows at dawn.
BTW Steve Steve Steve since you are a historical idiot… here is additional proof of that fact
The Bible sez: Daniel 7:25, “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”
Roman Catholic Church sez in Ferraris’ Ecclesiastical Dictionary:
“The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.”
Hmmm… Now that’s interesting Steve Steve Steve. Butt, there’s more…
“The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ.”
H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons sez, “Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (Saturday Sabbath to Sunday) was her act… And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things.”
Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1,1923 printed: “The Church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance from Saturday to Sunday is proof positive of that fact.”
And in 1869 Steve Steve Steve they sent out this letter..
Development of Christian Doctrine, Cardinal Newman. p. 372 wrote: “Confiding then in the power of Christianity to resist the infection of evil, and to transmute the instruments and appendages of demon worship to an evangelical use… the rulers of the church from early times were prepared should occasion arise, to adopt, or imitate, or sanction the existing rites and customs of the (Pagan) populace.”
NUFF SAID SUCKA!
Notice everyone in #134, today’s guzzling of the Stupid Solution took hold. Witness the crazy idiotic response to replaying his commentary!
Not only did Puddy catch Steve Steve Steve in his “he” moment, Steve Steve Steve tried to use some arcane WA State vote to fail and discredit facts
Geez, Puddy, it must really suck for you to finally realize that your hate-filled version of Christianity is founded upon the lies of a 19th century charlatan. Of course, if you want to talk about how much that sucks for you, I’d be glad to listen.
Notice how Steve Steve Steve conflates two separate thoughts into one paragraph with a real EPIC FAIL. No where has Puddy ever used WA State in any argument. Yet Steve Steve Steve still holds out hope Puddy will use WA State. Puddy never mentioned WA State anywhere in his arguments.
Keep Drinking That Stupid Solution. You are at a new level of stupidity! :)
Witness #137. Steve Steve Steve tries another tack.
No wind in that “sail” either!
@135 We already know that you hate the papacy for being some kind of weird sea-beast because some lying 19th century charlatan told you so. There’s really no need for you to make a further fool of yourself over that one, Puddy.
“No where has Puddy ever used WA State in any argument.”
I used the repeal of Washington Blue Law to refute your insane assertion that state blue laws somehow prove that the papacy is some form of strange sea-beast. But it’s quite understandable that you’d rather go off on some hate-filled, namecalling tangent rather than discuss your lying charlatan’s failed prophesies.
Where did Puddy say Puddy hated the Papacy?
Time
Date
URL
Pavlov sez wait for it… the arschloch to the rescue… Search arschloch search!
@35 Puddy spews the hate-filled words, “The CATHOLIC church did this with their perverted view of Christianity.”
Puddy obviously loves the papacy so much that he calls their view of Christianity “perverted” and makes the case that they’re the sea-beast of Revelations. Nah, Puddy don’t hate the papacy.
Another EPIC FAIL of Steve Steve Steve. Perverted view is a fact Steve Steve Steve. Puddy gave a reference! You haven’t referenced crap yet! You used the word HATED. Still waiting for the “proof”!
Another deflection from Steve Steve Steve!
“Perverted view is a fact”
Uh-huh, sure thing, Puddy. And here’s another Puddyfact for our consideration – the earth is 6,000 years old. You need better facts, Puddy. The ones you present here seem to, um, blow big-time.
It appears that Puddy has finally accepted the fact that he’s been pwned. Sea-beasts and a flat earth. Good grief!
Wrong again Steve Steve Steve. You make hate assertions without no facts.
Notice now how Steve Steve Steve changes the topic again. EPIC FAIL!
You were OWNED and PWNED!
So far we’ve determined that Puddy hates Catholicism for two reasons. One, according to Puddy’s lying charlatan of a false prophet, Ellen White, the papacy is that despicable sea-beast from Revelations and, two, the papacy also bought into all those scientist’s insidious lies about an old earth and the big bang. Now were there any other reasons you hate Catholicism, Puddy? I’d hate to leave anything out.
So far everyone has seen Steve Steve Steve make assertion after assertion without facts.
When confronted by his own words he changes the subject.
When confronted by facts everyone watched his head explode @134.
When shown his fallacious logic he claimed he won. We’re still waiting for Steve Steve Steve to show where Puddy said he hates Catholics or Catholicism! You’ll be waiting until Jesus comes again in His clouds of glory.
The evidence demonstrates his loss!
Good night Steve Steve Steve.
PWNED and OWNED!
Puddy sez, @35 “The CATHOLIC church did this with their perverted view of Christianity.”
Puddy whines @149, “We’re still waiting for Steve Steve Steve to show where Puddy said he hates Catholics or Catholicism!”
Puddy don’t hate no papacy. Puddy just thinks they have a perverted view of Christianity. Obviously Puddy prefers the hate-filled KLOWN view of Christianity.