Matthew 22:21
Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.
Discuss.
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Caesar will woop your ass!
Frankly, I get pretty tired of the burnt offerings, incense, symbolic eating of My body, and mega churches built in My name. As for the statuary meant to depict Me, Medamnit, a lot if it is in terrible taste! Michaelangelo, FWIW, is my favorite portraitist. The chotskies I see around a lot of folks’ necks and that thing overlooking Rio, on the other hand, .. these are a visual violation of My commandment not to take my name in vain.
You want to honor me? Feed My poor!
I am that I am
Jesus was a community organizer.
Pontius Pilate was a governor.
Why do the wanna-be Caesars like to disparage real folks governmental needs so much?
It lets them act superior. Such people need to always be better than someone else to validate their own lives.
Multimillionares who inherit their grandparents fortune when their own parents die, then criticize the folks whose parents actually had to work for a living for not doing enough to pull themselves out of poverty. They sneer at the working man, calling him names like “Joe sixpack” and tell each other how blessed they are by their own ability to take those inherited millions and generate more money with it, merely by letting other people manage it for them. Everyone else not of comparable wealth is just lazy and not intelligent enough to become wealthy, so they can go get fucked.
Middle-class folks whose parents were able to actually save money while supporting a family, are now finding themselves priced out of the very neighborhoods their parents had to resort to just to be able to buy a house.
And the poor? Their numbers keep increasing, their percentage of the population just goes up and up, while the wealthy folks ship jobs to Mexico and China and the Philippines, so they can increase their own wealth and not have to obey any pesky “labor laws”.
Those jobs being the working mans jobs. The machine shops, the car manufacturing, the foundries, Steel mills, farms, the construction companies. Actual, decent get-dirty mans work. Work that used to pay wages enough to buy a small house, and a decent car or two, even send the kids to university.
Thats all gone. Because the working man, has, for far to long, “Rendered unto Caesar”.
Mostly true, but Jesus? Not so much. Talking, even with love, does not feed the poor or protect the persecuted.
ACORN did both before Caesar got pissed.
Caesar takes revenge on those who cross him, I do not.
But I do care.
I am that I am.
Seems these days is more like “Render to Obama/Gregoire/Dow/McGinn what is mine… and Obama/Gregoire/Dow/McGinn renders to Government Employees what is mine”
Seems that Jesus was a forerunner to Thomas Jefferson in his beliefs about the separation of church and state.
@4 WTF?
Oh, another moron complaining about our historically low tax burden.
It really does get tiresome.
@5
Yes, I think that is correct. Jesus was an atheist liberal, preaching separation of church and state.
Thanks for a nice piece of scripture this morning.
The government issues the currency, so when you pay your taxes you are simply giving back what was theirs to begin with.
Life, on the other hand is a gift from god. Try living it for a change.
(warning: this post contains snark)
Newt on Kagan
“…. I think the fact is if you look at the brief you filed, if you look at what she wrote at the time, it’s a very myopic view. On the one hand, Harvard accepts money from Saudis. Saudi Arabia, by the way, executes homosexuals, Saudi Arabia represses women, Saudi Arabia doesn’t allow Christians or Jews to practice their religion, but Saudi money is fine.”
Give unto the Saudis, as much as you can!
@9…The government issues the currency, so when you pay your taxes you are simply giving back what was theirs to begin with.
LMFAO…I think your understanding of what currency is is either lacking or misguided.
How could a mere mortal, an imperfect human render God’s things for God?
Render therefore (for thee) unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.
Are parenthesis allowed in the Bible?
My favorite passage from God’s mouth:
2 Kings 2:
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. “Go on up, you baldhead!” they said. “Go on up, you baldhead!”
24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.
So much for protecting children and giving to the least of us. Get off my lawn!
Words, just words.
Fear is the new God. Offerings of gold and manna are made in its name. This God is jealous and demands absolute obedience and fealty. It tells us how to think and how to act. It takes the most evil of our brothers and makes them kings.
Those who do good are left in the desert to die.
You mean we can return certain “Judeo-Christians” to God? Loves it! Will God require a certified chain of custody before accepting the ‘rendered’? I ask because there is some controversy as to which Eternal department (The Damned or God’s Chosen) issued them in the first place.
Btw, we’re not supposed to take “rendered” literally are we? As in this? Because ick.
I’ve often wondered why a lot of the hardcore Christians think that the Jews killed Jesus. After all, wasn’t it the Romans that physically killed Jesus? Does anyone recall the Jews nailing Jesus to the cross?
But then, the early Christians used the Roman Empire’s fading infrastructure (beginning with Constantine) to push Christianity onto the barbarian tribes of Europe. Clovis, King of the Franks, adopted Christianity to consolidate his power over the conquered peoples and to extend his power. In Short, Christianity was adopted by the warlords of Northern and Western Europe for political reasons. In a lot of ways, Christianity represents the final triumph of the Roman Empire. I suppose Christians wouldn’t want to tarnish that Roman image by remembering that the Jews didn’t actually kill Jesus. Heck, why was a good scapegoat? Blame it on the Jews!
That should read “waste a good scapegoat,” not was a good scapegoat.”
Have the Trolls abandoned us? Is the Word of God initmidating to those who claim it as their own?
@17, Blaming someone, anyone for “killing” Jesus is definitely a curious thing. I mean, that was God’s plan all along, right? If Heysoos hadn’t been offed, there would be no Christianity.
It’s a circular conundrum wrapped in one of those enigma thingys.
@17: Why the Jews? Certainly you jest.
Recall that Pilate, the embodiment of Rome in Palestine, washed his hands (both ceremoniously and de facto) of the whole affair and left it up to the Jewish, shall we politely say–mob to decide the “son of god’s” fate? They shouted for death. Little did they know!!!
For this they had to wait nearly 2,000 years, be spread to the four winds, and suffer untold persecutions before they could lay a guilt trip on the British and seize “their” land back by force and terrorism….you know, act like everybody else.
@11: Actually, under a fiat currency system, taxes act to create a demand for the currency that otherwise would not exist.
Tried paying your tax bill with chickens (or even gold) lately? Didn’t think so.
Dr. Dre threads, still zero.
21. Proud To Be An Ass spews:
@17: Why the Jews? Certainly you jest.
So speaks the voice of 2 millenia of Christian antisemitism.
1. Under then current law, “jesus” coujld have been executed by the Jwews for the sin of blasphemy. They did not need Roman authority.
If the Jews had executed Jesus, the punishment would have been stoning. The “right” to crucifiction was Romes.
Of ocurse wheh the Romans adoopted Chrstianity this little story would have been .. cna you say “inconvenient?”
2. Since Jews are monotheists who certianly would never worship an anthopomorphic walking god, the only way we could be considered guiltyy is if we had killed a very good man. The Romans did just that .. they massacred manhy good Jews.
The Jesus as depicted in the Christian (Roman) bible is hardly a very admirteable man. He does NO acts of charity, commits blasphemy several times, abuses the Temple, ….
3. Antizionism is convenient ..”For this they had to wait nearly 2,000 years, be spread to the four winds, and suffer untold persecutions before they could lay a guilt trip on the British and seize “their” land back by force and terrorism….you know, act like everybody else.”
Read some effin history.
##Jews lived continuously in this land except when Christians hed it .. under the Romans and then the Franks.
##When Zionism began, it was NOT English, there were no poeple (other than Jews living in Judea) who were called “Palestinians,” The Zionist settlers were peaceful immigrants into land controlled (until the mandate) by Turkey
. The terrorism began (eg in Hebron) because of Arab antisemitism. Jordon, NOT Israel, invaded the UN area claled Palestine and incorporated the nascent State into the then Transjordan.
Do facts matter? Yeh. There are facts on the Palestian side too. Many (not most) were forced to flee in 48 (not before) because of the Israelis. Zionism was deeply tainted with European ideas of Nation and European superiority, The cheredi (fundamentalist) settlers are horrid.
It seems to me that we will never have peace until we shovel the ill smelling shot off of whatever rational truth lies underneath.
SJ,
When Jesus comes in His Father’s glory what will be your audacious statement then?
SJ: “When Zionism began, it was NOT English”
???? This means what, exactly?
SJ: “there were no poeple (other than Jews living in Judea) who were called ‘Palestinians,'”
This is beyond disingenuous and not a serious argument in any sense. There were people living there. They had been there a long time. What they are to be called is beside the point. They were forced to leave.
SJ: “The terrorism began (eg in Hebron) because of Arab antisemitism.”
So antisemitism justifies terrorism? And this claim, too, is simply handwaving as to the ultimate aim of the Zionist cause: An exclusionary Jewish state in Palestine.
SJ: “Jordon, NOT Israel, invaded the UN area claled Palestine and incorporated the nascent State into the then Transjordan.”
The fact of the matter is undisputed. The Zionist minority entity achieved, via partition, a majority of Palestine, and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were forcibly removed from their homes and cast into exile.
SJ: “Do facts matter? Yeh”
yup. Try learning some of them.
Probably would have been better off if the whole damn area was still under British control.
@26: Brawwakkka, brakkkahhh, brooocck!
@25
25. Proud To Be An Ass spews:
I agree that the Britain’s affinity of Jews and for Millenialism were important to the politics of the establishment of the State of Israel. BUT Zionism is far, far older than that and certainly did not originate in England.
Yes, “there were people living there but it is not true that the modern Palestinians “had been there a long time.” Since the Roman conquest, this piece of land had many transient communities … Greeks, Jews, Arabs, Bedouins, Byzantines, Franks. Under the Turks none of these claimed this area as their ethnic home ..except the Jews.
Israel, under Turkey, was governed as part of a very multiethinc place called “Syria.”
After the defeat of Turkey, several new nations were created out of the area the Turks considered Syria .. these included Jordan, Lebanon, and Iraq .
These new borders reflected a mix of efforts intended to recognize ethnic groups and reward British and French allies.
Aside from the fact that many of these Jews people were immigrants or children of immigrants from Europe, the Jews were one more ethnic group under Turkey. They were, BTW refered to as “Palestinians” since there was no non-Jewish ethnic group interested in this piece of land.
Put another way, Palestine did not exist even as an ethnic identity in 48. The UN proposed to create yet another new nation. In 48 Transjordan invaded. NO ARAB government objected to the occupation of the area proposed by the UN as “Palestine.”
You do not think terrorism begets terrorism?
As for “an exclusionary Jewish state in Palestine” this has never been the goal of Zionism. Even today, only extremists sadly some in the ruling coalition, support such an idea.
A majority? Within what borders? The only borders in this area were those delimitting Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan.
The colonialist powers could have done what Syria wanted and left all of the minorities , including the Jews of Israel, the Hashemites, the bedouins of Jordan/Palestine, the Christians of Lebanon under Syrian rule. If you want to see how well that would have worked talk to a Kurd.
Or the powers could have done what they did do .. partition “Syria” so these minorities, none of whom had any idea of nationalism before WW I, could have their own countries. The jews too.
By the way, many Jews believe that the real FU here was allowing the Hashemite to rule Jordan since ethnically “Jordanians” and Arab Palestinians were the same people.
As for the 48 (and later) wars there was never a policy of ethnic cleansing by Israel. That does not mean there were not abuses, but the great majority of refugees fled because they were ordered to do so by the Arab forces. The Arabs also refused to allow these people to resettle in Jordan or Lebanon. FWIW, about the same number of refugees fled the Arab states to become Israelis.
**************************
I meant what I said about the value of facts.
If you want a really fair minded argument against Zionism, I recommend that you read Eduard Said’s excellent analysis. He sees Zionism as colonialism.
Modern Colonists, like the their predecessors, see themselves as bringing culture to an inferior people. I am sure that the European Zionists some themselves in this role. We have many such examples still going on today … the current Han-ization of Tibet, the colonization of North Ireland by Presbyterians, the Zulu invasion of South Africa (then a Dutch population since the Euroes ahd already wiped out the ‘san, the Russian colonization of the Baltic states, … and of course most of US history.
Look, the fact is we have two antagonistic cultures living in a tiny area. Whatever their past history, the Israelis and the Palestinians are both very real people with strong cultures. Unless you want more horror, then you should support the effort to find a solution that lets these people live alongside each other.
How will we know who Caesar is if the churches are involved in politics?
We should give to the unions just to be on the safe side.
Al Queda is claiming credit for killing Jesus. This is terrifying!
@24 When Jesus comes to his Father’s glory, you’re still going to be the same phony little piece of shit.
“24. Puddybud sez, Ask the arschloch the backend of every thread spews:
SJ,
When Jesus comes in His Father’s glory what will be your audacious statement then?”
You make life seem like a roulette game. “When you bet everything on 17 and it come up 00, what will you do then?”
Jesus was a community organizer. Obama was a community organizer. Ergo:
Obama = Jesus
33 – Just the sort of conclusion a dumbass right winger would arrive at.
The Romans nailed Jesus to the cross, while the Jews hollered, “Crucify him! Crucify him!” Jesus was a nuisance to the Romans, and and a blasphemer to the Jews. The point is that everyone there had a reason to want to see him destroyed.
As Mel Gibson put it in an interview, “It just so happened there weren’t any Norwegians present.”
I see that Pudge has banned MikeBoyScout from SP.
How ironic. Over here on HA Pudge absolutely refuses to apologize to Ivan and Lee for falsely accusing them of being liars.
Pudge, you’ll recall that I humiliated you when I called you out as the liar you are and demanded that you offer apologies to the good and decent people here whom you’ve repeatedly and falsely accused of lying. You chickenshit fucktwit SOB, you immediately turned around, ran your ass home to SP, accused MikeBoyScout of lying and then banned him. You’re such a asswipe coward. Do you hear me, Pudge? I’m calling you out as an asswipe fucking coward. Now go hide your sorry ass, you worthless piece of shit.
@35 ..
ArtFart
Not a good analogy. Esp given the issues surrunding Quisling.
Even if (or especially if) we accept the Nicean official text as correct, there woulod be no real reason for the jews to not wnat to kill this fellow. He had, according to the Nicean text, violated the law. There wer eounishments for that.
Now, if he had led an otherwiase exemplary life .. say giving to the poor or organizing resistance to the Romans, then Jewish complicity in the crucifiction might be an issue. Neither of these is the case. Acts of charity (not miracles), acts expected of pious teachers are conspicuously absent in the Nicean bible. In a time when others (atually the Pharisees) were teachihg passive resistance to Rome and yet others were beginning t be militant, this fellow preached acceptance of the Romans.
I see a lot more similarity between Quisling, Piois XII or Petain and Jesus than I do between MLK and Jesus.
While certainky not a collaborator,