Proverbs 30:15
The leech has two daughters.
‘Give! Give!’ they cry.
Discuss.
Can’t Bring Yourself to Type the Word “Ass”?
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Leeches?
Will we therefore be discussing metaphors for the effects of conservative Republicanism on the ‘body’ of society?
Maybe it’s about a dust-up between the Sadducees and the Maccabees.
Baretta …
The Macabees WERE the predecessors of the Sadducees,
The Macabees fought to expel the Greeks from the Temple .. that s take back Israel from the foreigners … you know, the same thing the Palestinians claim they are doing now because we Jews have no right to live there.
re 3: Thanks for the info. Can you give me some historical perspective on the Pharisees?
I’ll overlook the misspellings because I know that you have autism and you are doing the best that you can.
Oh, god.
The ‘multi-thousand year old land claim as justification for apartheid’ argument.
What next? “A people-less land for a landless people”?
Wow SJ,
You provide historical facts and Lib da schmuck lives up to being a schmuck! SJ, I bet Lib da schmuck never been to the Holy Land. Remember he makes his arguments from behind a screen perusing left-wrong whackamole sites.
Too bad baretta is an idiot! I bet he doesn’t know who led the Maccabees!
Those daughters sound like a Republican I used to date. Thank the Great Mother Rabbit Spirit that I married a Democrat!
@6 Who’s got the Puddy Decoder Ring? You’ve got to wonder whether even the PDR is capable of decoding this gibberish.
re 6: “Lib da schmuck” —- Is this the grand result of your years of Yiddish study?
@$ Baretta
I don’t think an essay here today is a good use of time. To simplify, the pharisees are the “founding fathers” of modern Judaism and probably represent the parts of the Roman Bible that you (and I) would credit to the “ggod” Jesus. Modern scholars consider hima lay Pharisee.
Their movement was the basis for the resistance to Rome and to the temple thoeocracy (that sided with Rome).
As for autism, nope .. just typing disabled.
@5 Lib Sci ..
Just stating facts. The Palestinians want to deny the fact that the Jewish nation existed. That is their wide spread belief and the basis for what os now a 1/2 century of THEIR war.
There are equally asinine people who think we have a divine right to Israel, bit most of them are fundie Christians.
As for you, try making peace, not war.
Been calling him da schmuck for many weeks. Check with the maddog-20-20 ylb. He keeps score with the crazed debazed databaze!
Dumb Wabbit@9,
Visit the Holy Land sometime. Then you’d get it. Until then stay stoooopid!
I would like it very much if we Americans would un-involve ourselves in the conflicts in the Middle East. I don’t care if Palestine survives, and I don’t care if Israel survives. The land currently occupied by a Jewish majority is not our fifty-first state, and if it were suddenly to become a totally Palestinian state, it still wouldn’t be part of the US.
The tragedy in Syria should be solved by the people of that region. Obviously they really don’t have the will or methods to prevent the Syrian tragedy, but that does not necessarily mean the responsibliity is America’s. I invite all countries who wish to save the world to do so, using there blood and treaure. After a short time, most nations will realize no single country can be the world’s policeman.
Just get out and stay out of the Middle East! We’ve wasted and meddled far too much already!
All aboard the HAte Train! woot woot!
R.I.P.
Bob, aka “Serial Conservative”
He only lasted a few short weeks but his head blew up real good.
@15 PI
Surprise, I think your POV is rational,
Where we likely disagree is on how history has consequences.
If the WWII refugees had not been refused entry to the US, America would have gained great people, the effort to recreate Israel as a Jewish state would have failed and Jordan would now include “Palestine.” Jews living there would likely have decided by now to mostly flee here.
BTW, somewhat similar arguments can be made in regard to S. Korea, Taiwan, and a LOT of Eastern Europe. Frankly, we really ought to ask the same questions about Mexico vs, the part of Mexico we stole.
So now what do we do now? From my POV, America needs to take “Democracy” as a bigger word than “USA.” I think we need to support the rights of TODAY’s Israelis and Palestinians along with support for democracy in Egypt and Libya.
Or we can try to retreat behind a virtual version of Israel’s sad wall,
14. Puddybud spews:
blah blah blah…
By that logic, visit Denmark, Sweden and Finland sometime. Then you’d get it. Until then stay conservative.
Let’s see: Denmark 2 times, Sweden 2 times, Finland once. Since you didn’t name it Norway once too! Oslo kinda drab but the Intercontinental Hotel was nice! I can bring my passport to a DL. Name the date!
Next!
Fascist, really stoooooooooopid!
re 11: Thank you.
I’m no expert on Christianity or Judaism, but some years back, I took a liking to the novels of Chaim Potok and even read his history of Judaism. Not a lot stuck, however, so any help where needed is appreciated..
@21
Potok’s history is good, but he has Jewish bias. Of course the same can be said for most non Jewish historians.
The best balanced history I have read is by Paul Johnson. He is a goy (Brit) and has also written the best history of early Christianity I have read.
He really tries to avoid the biases most historians bring to the subject. For example, he has very clear way of showing how the Roman state evolved into today’s Roman Church .. including the way offices of state became the levels of hierarchy after Rome left Italy.
The Pharisees are esp. difficult to understand because we have little actual writings from the period and writings by Roman or Christian authors, e.g. the Roman Bible or even Josephus are heavily influenced by the fact that Rome won a war … the winners not only get to write history, their victims often end up becoming the “man’s” partisans.
Bottom line, no one knows if the identification if the Pharisees with the priests or Jesus’ enemies makes any sense. We do know that the heritage of the Pharisees is a great one.
Happy to help but I suspect that HA is nto the best place.
SJ @ 18,
I like the way the Swiss handle things: they hold the money while everyone fights but don’t get invovled. The way America is now, I believe that if Norway and New Zealand went to war with each other, we’d interject ourselves into the conflict! Why can’t we just stay the hell out of other countries’ affairs?
As for America being the great spreader of democracy, I don’t give it much of a chance, given our intervention into places where we had no business. Remember, our CIA and the British intelligence people engineered the fall of a democratically-elected leader in Iran back in the Fifties and replaced him with a monarch, the Shah. That didn’t work out so well. No wonder the Iranians don’t have nice thoughts about us! It’s tough to sell democracy when our “great leaders” will subvert democracy to suit their political needs. One of the byproducts of a no-kiddin’ democracy is that we don’t get to dictate to that democracy!
“…he has very clear way of showing how the Roman state evolved into today’s Roman Church…”
Quite right! Christianity represents the final triumph of the Roman Empire. Those of us who are of European origin (Celtic and Germanic in my case) should actually be following a religion more like today’s Wicca if we were to be true to our roots. That’s if we were to follow any religion at all, Wicca would be as close a match to what we had before we all converted to Christianity (at the points of Roman swords, most likely).
PI
It seems we are not all that far apart.
In re US interventionism, I am less dismal then you. Our “successes” in Europe, Japan, and … I hope .. North Africa are very impressive.
The problem with Iran or today’s Afghanistan situation is not our intent, but the simple fact that we lack the resources to be the world cop or even the successor to the British Empire. Even if we could do the latter. the success of Britain in creating Democracy and rule of law is still parlous in a large part of their domain.
A better approach is what I think is the Obama Doctrine .. leading by example and exercising our resources from behind. Are you aware of our recent successes in Brazil .. no small potatoes even tough our no-drama Obama president understands that grandstanding on such issues can destroy the successes!
In re Israel, what we need is a coalition that seeks peace. The players need to be outside of Israel and Palestine … Russia., China, Europe, Saudi Arabia and Egypt seem to me to be the biggies. Together these powers could create incentives for the Palestinians to build a VIABLE state and force the Israelis to accept that state.
The first trick is pretty obvious .. JOBS. Palestinians are very industrious people .. after all genetically and culturally they are an awful lot like Jews.
People with jobs at stake are not likely to make war.
The SJ peace plan would consist of a large commitment to promote trade with Jordan, Palestine, Israel and Egypt. The US could easily commit to outsourcing jobs to these folks .. with their high educations … rather then to China or India.
The numbers of jobs, relative to those now going to India or China is very small.
I also suggest that the dollars, at least the American dollars, could be tiny. Saudi Arabia ALREADY employs huge numbers of Egyptians and Palestinians, repatriating those employees would do wonders for Saudi’s political stability!
The second trick in all this is keeping the trouble makers .. esp Iran, out. The good geopolitical news is that it is n the interest of India, Egypt, Japan, Russia, and Europe, not just us, to contain Iran.
The other trouble maker, sadly, is the Republican party. They are easily MORE dangerous to Israel than Iran!
The third trick is moving the focus from politics to economy. If Palestine becomes economically viable, then creating a state is easy.
So .. I hope you agree that this is brilliant, if misspelt.
@24 … PI
Wicaa .. that makes no sense either. First, whatever WICCA is today, I am certain it has nothing in cmmon with the divers religions practiced by the divers Celtic, Nordic, Germanic, and Cro Magnons who inhabitted Europe prior to the Roman invasions of 2000 years ago.
I actually see nothing wrong with Christianity,as long as it is divorced, as it is today in the northern countries, from government and power.
As for what you were, please remember YOU are a descendent. The faiths of YOUR ancestors was not (sadly) handed down t you because it is cultural and not genetic. That is part of the secret we Jews have … along with Hindus, Chinese, Tibetans, and even Gypsies. Our cultural root, what you call religion, while not genetic, has remained intact for thousands of years.
In part we share with other ancient rooted people, literacy. Our books are so old their origins fade int the misty areas of archaeology.
In contrast,the European roots are much shorter .. realistically no more than a thousand years … less than the roots of Japan or Korea and not really as deep as the Mayans or Inca. Even the oral history of many non literate people has continuity Europeans, thanks to Rome, have lost.
On the other hand, the short root of Europe is glorious. Shakespeare, Goethe, Jefferson, Voltaire,Luther, .. no other culture comes close!
Makes a mere Jew jealous!~
“I actually see nothing wrong with Christianity,as long as it is divorced, as it is today in the northern countries, from government and power.”
Yeah, Christianity is far, far too influential in countries like Italy and Spain. It seems to dictate their lives in ways we’d never tolerate in the US. Even the poor Irish, who cling to Catholicism so ardently, don’t realize that the Catholic Church has been a silent partner in the 800-plus year-long oppression of those Celtic tribes on Eire. Part fo the Irish Catholic’s delema is how to relegate the Roman Church to its proper place in Irish society: the church is a “religion,” not a governing body.
I guess I’m attracted to Wicca out of wondering what would have happened if my ancestors had never met the Romans and been forced to convert to Christianity. We’ll never know the answer to that one.
{BTW, I think the Nordic tribes are actually considered Germanic, as were the Angles & Saxons.}
Yes
My point was that the idea of a single pagan religion is romantic nonsense.
I love a book by Chinua Acehebe on the nature of indigenous Nigerian religion vs. Chrsitianity. It is short and I am sure oyu would like it ….
“Arrow of God.”
The story of the feet mof a Nigerian priest to fight against the Chritians subversion of his people.
“…a single pagan religion is romantic nonsense.
Yeah, well all religion is based on faith, not fact. That’s why religion is often referred to as one’s “faith.” I’m sure Judaism has its mystic elements that go beyond the rational and require “faith.” So do all religions.
In my critical moments, I often refer to religion as a “pack of lies,” but what religion mainly does is give us all some explanation as to where all this (the Universe) came from. We seem to need the “faith” part of religion almost as much as the structure and ritual.
Good talk, SJ. Let’s see what Goldy has for us next Sunday. I’m sure it sill be thought provoking.
@29 “what religion mainly does is give us all some explanation as to where all this (the Universe) came from”
What if religion’s explanation is wrong?
What if religionists burn people at the stake for not believing?
What if religion is used to justify genocide?
What if religious rivalry leads to bloody warfare?
What if religion leads some people to believe we should use our nuclear
Is there any scenario uider which religion, as put into practice by
you stupid humans, might not be a good thing for your species?
@29 “what religion mainly does is give us all some explanation as to where all this (the Universe) came from”
What if religion’s explanation is wrong?
What if religionists burn people at the stake for not believing?
What if religion is used to justify genocide?
What if religious rivalry leads to bloody warfare?
What if religion leads some people to believe we should use our nuclear weapons to facilitate the arrival of Armageddon and the Second Coming?
Is there any scenario under which religion, as put into practice by you stupid humans, might not be a good thing for your species?
Five minutes isn’t long enough to edit. That is, if it works at all.
Roger,
The trouble with you rabbits is that you are so obsessed with the cabbage patch you never see the rest of the world.
In fact most of my friendly deities … Raven, Ganesh, Ho Tai, as well as the deities in rocks and waves seem to me pretty innocuous compared to your viscous human friends.
We … Gods that is … take a lot of shit when humans blame US for the stuff they do!
Who do rabbits blame?
God,
I think George Carlin has your number, though I do feel sorry for you, with all those Christians bothering you with their wheedling prayers on your day off. Sorry.