Genesis 19:30-36
Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. Let’s get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father.”That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I lay with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father.
Discuss.
A good analogy will be what happens to anyone who LIES like Obam-Mao!!
Sunday, March 14, 2010
Isn’t Obam-Mao our Father?
He acts like it.
Don’t LIE with Obam-Mao.
He LIES good enough by himself and has seriously impregnated our National Debt!
Lot was Abraham’s nephew. Lot separated himself from Abraham and pitched his tent toward Seattle….I mean Sodom which was a very wicked city.
This was the first step in Lot getting away from the Lord, when he got his eyes on the world, the pleasures of this life that exactly what Lot did. Lot creates problems for himself and for his children.
In Genesis 19:1 Lot is now he is sitting in the gate of Seattle….errr Sodom. Now he is the judge or the Mayor of Seattle….darn it, I mean Sodom. He is saying I want to see how close I can get to sin and not partake. A lot of Seattle people do this….ATheist Progressives love living like the world and Lot was sure doing that..
In Genesis 19:13-14, this sin affected Lot’s daughter. Their husbands were burned to death. Lot should have gotten out of there. Lot saw his sons-in-law burned up in fire because of HIS sin. Listen, people suffer when we sin. When we don’t stand up for the things of God, our children suffer, we suffer, and everybody around us suffers.
In Genesis 19:15, the angels had to literally drag Lot out of there. He didn’t want to come out. Sin will affect you.
In Genesis 19:30-36, Lot got his own daughters pregnant. In verses 37 and 38 the Moabites and the Ammonites were enemies of God all the way through the Bible. The Moabites and the Ammonites were the result of Lots sin. His daughters reaped Lots sin.
Thanks for bringing this one up.
When I think of Atheist Progressive Lunatics, it reminds me of Lot and how self-absorbed into the ways of the world and whatever FEELS good you folks are.
DOn’t be like Lot.
So, God burned Lot’s sons-in-law to death, because of something that Lot did? That’s fucked up.
Cynical,
Puddy notices rob is ignorant of Bible lessons.
Well, what happened is that God was aiming for Lot and he missed and hit all the people around him. Maybe God’s aim isn’t so go, or maybe he was drunk, or maybe he needs glasses.
I had a cousin like that once.
Ugh.
And in the next chapter we learn that Abraham is married to his half sister (via their shared father, Gen 20:12).
So, incest is a horrible evil between Lot and his daughters, yet Abraham and Sarah are exalted?
I think this has less to do with any moral or legal consistency, and more to do with who was deciding which neolithic myths to include in the “holy book”.
A text that would consistently be used through the millennia, as we see in @2 above, to divide and vilify and deploy as a political weapon.
Is it time for a “Rodney Tom is a douchebag” thread yet?
OK, puddy, enlighten me: what lesson should I draw from that, other the obvious one than that your god will kill innocent people for no good reason?
I think that the lesson we can take from this is that people want to do it, even girls, and they’ll more or less do it with whoever is around. And conservatives are in denial about that and want to suppress it, particular the sexuality of women and teen girls. In fact, almost exclusively women and teen girls. On never hears of them begging stiffer enforcement of support laws against teen boys who impregnate their peers. And for that matter, both John Ensign and David Vitter (notroriously married can’t-keep-it-zippered kind of horndogs) are both running for re-election and appear poised to do well if not win. I care about Ensign myself because he used the influence of his office for the benefit of his mistress and her husband. I don’t care who he fucks but he’s a crooked politician.
The godless heathen sinning Democrats, on the other hand, who have weird beliefs like that teenagers should be educated with the facts about sex, birth control, pregnancy, and sexually transmitted disease, and have chased Eliot Spitzer and Eric Massa from office and have pretty much assured that John Edwards will never run for office again. Personally, I think it is an overreaction to the Republican sliming of Bill Clinton, but it does tend to give us the moral high ground.
What a bunch of slimeballs those Democrats clearly are. And surely Republicans are the sorts of paragons of moral rectitude who would never abide infidelity or other sexual sin in their representatives.
Oh, they do? Never mind.
This is extremely timely:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....use-of-God.
Over at DailyKos, the diarist teacherken has a great discussion of an OP-ED in today’s NYTimes by Desmond Tutu. Tutu places homophobia, properly, in the realm of a human right’s violation, and rails against using religion as a cudgel against any minority (or should I say out-of-power group, as women, for example, are not outnumbered but are certainly oppressed by those wielding religion as a weapon).
This may be more apropos of last week’s discussion, but I think is relevant to any discussion of the role of religion in civil society.
Some choice quotes:
Why do they call it “The Holy Bible?” What’s so “holy” about incest? If the Bible were written in the modern vernacular, it would probably be declared pornographic and ultra-violent.
Another thing – who put the Bible together and who determined the Bible’s contents? Why is Revelations in the Bible if it was written by some hermit in a cave 90 years after Jesus died?
I’m afraid Christianity, like all religions, was made-up at they went along. The powers of the day used the Bible and the Church to support their basis of power and control. Christianity is no better or worse than other religions of the world.
Sounds familiar, like with a lot of cult leaders. Remember David Koresh. It is the Christian way, for the male heterosexual to dominate and spread his DNA to as many woman as possible, including the young ones. And you don’t even have to talk the people into it, they follow like a bunch of mindless idiots. All in the name of the Bible.
When you get right down to it, the Abrahamic religions are all cults. They just happen to be very, very large cults!!
@5,
so what you’re saying is that Dick Cheney is God?
In his life and time, Lot got more God sanctiuoned pussy than Frank Sinatry!!!
@2
By the way, Klinical’s “analysis” is as inaccurate as it is self-serving (Oh, big surprise there)
If you go back a few chapters, (Gen 13), Lot headed off to the east because his and Abraham’s operations were too big to be close together – and Abraham let him pick either way to go. There’s nothing in the text to suggest that Lot chose to go east for any reason other than that the plain looked fertile. Did Lot go because Sodom was the Vegas of the day? Perhaps, doesn’t say. Did Abraham manipulate or coerce him? Maybe, can’t say.
In Gen 19:1, nowhere is Lot characterized as the Mayor of Sodom. He’s outside the gate, and he intercepts and saves the angels in disguise. (Also, v9 has the townspeople sneering at him as an immigrant, an outsider). Sounds to me like he was trying to do good. Why was he there in the first place – did he find Sodom evil when he arrived back in Ch 13, and decide to stay? Don’t know. Did Sodom become evil around him? Again, can’t say. Why did he stay – again, no info, but by his actions, he seemed to be trying to prevent the innocent from falling into the trap in the city. Seems like he was putting himself in harm’s way to protect the innocent.
Klinical suggests that in v 13-14, Lot’s sin brings misfortune on his daughters in the form of their husbands’ impending deaths in the destruction of the city. Again, what was Lot’s sin? Was it offering his daughters to the crowd, in order to protect the travelers? That does seem unbelievably cold, but the sort of savagery and sacrifice of the most precious (remember, to protect God’s angels-in-disguise) that this bloodthirsty God seems to enjoy. (It also would imply a high value on the daughters, which seems very at odds with the misogyny in the OT and Christianity in general).
In 19:15 the “angels drag Lot out” according to Klinical (it’s actually v16), which he interprets as Lot unwilling to leave the sin that has bewitched him. How do we know that – certainly not from text. How do we know that Lot didn’t “hate the sin, and love the sinner” as so many self-righteous Christians like to proclaim? He seems unwilling to leave his neighbors and friends to their fate of utter destruction – again, he sounds like a nice guy.
As a proud Atheist Progressive Lunatic, I find some “Christians'” eagerness to read into any situation evidence of their own righteousness and others’ failings both tedious and distasteful.
@17: There you go, being all logical and shit, you raving atheist lunatic! (;-))
@WhoeverPutThisBadPentouseForumLetterInTheBible:
What utter bullshit! The tell for me was that the daughters wanted to:
“…preserve our family line through our father.”
Ummm, girls just wanna’ have fun (i.e., get drunk and screw “…jes get me wasted and I’m halfway there… dynamo hum…”)!
And for FSM’s sake, how the fuck did Lot get it up if he was passed out drunk?
Go read this:
http://www.openleft.com/diary/.....ng-to-hell
Paul Rosenberg has an EXCELLENT diary riffing off this Glenn Beck quote:
Is this where Republicans came from?
@1 Will Komedy Klown’s whiiiiiiniiiing never cease?
@3 They should’ve hired a private eye to run background checks on those girls before getting involved with them. That’s what everyone does now. You can’t be too careful in today’s society.
@4 So are you and the rest of the troll fiends. You may read, but you don’t comprehend.
@5 Napalm is a great area weapon, but is less efficient against point targets.
@6 I suspect most Republicans have counsins like that — and they’re married to them. I mean, who would marry a Republican, besides his sister or cousin? No one.
@8 Or maybe a “Rodney Tom is still a Republican in his bones” thread.
@21: Duh! Ongoing, repetitive incest.
That’s why they’re called mouthbreathers, silly Rabbit.
@12 “Why do they call it “The Holy Bible?””
Because it’s full of holies.
By even discussing the bible you are validating it. It is the most evil religion that I know of, outside of the Thuggee cult in India.
Yes, I took three terms of “Comparative Religions” in college.
Yes, I have undoubtedly read the whole piece of crap at least 10 times. It was the only book that the military would allow me in basic training and I was a speed reader.
I don’t get it. You folks hate Christianity so much you are obsessed with it, kind of like your partisan view of Republicans? You can’t simply let others believe as they wish without casting scorn on them?
How truly pathetic.
Re 30
Then don’t discuss it.
You are clearly lying about your experience in basic, or that of the 30 or so other people I know who served their country lied. (And I’ve got to say, if I’m asked to believe the kind of fool who hates religion so much he reads the Bible, he claims 10 times, and practically minors in religion at school or that of people I know to be ethical decent people who wouldn’t lie. Well.)
I’m sorry about your condition of OCD with regard to religion, but that hardly makes you an expert.
(Roger): I think I have a slight preference for Edwards.
12/31/2007 at 2:10 pm
(Roger): Before you start laughing at the notion of a President Richard Pope, think about this …
09/30/2007 at 9:52 am
(chadt): I was going to give money to the DCC today, I (s)ent it to Pope via Paypal …
09/30/2007 at 10:08 am
(JCH): I was the only Edwards supporter in my precinct caucus. I like the man, $400 haircut and all. He’s a billionaire, but he remembers what it’s like to work for a living.
(YLB): That leaves a HUGE opening for a candidate who is speaking the truth about what it will take for the people to take back this country and that candidate is John Edwards.
12/31/2007 at 1:07 pm
(YLB): Richard Pope will win because people are fed up … Richard Pope’s victory will do little damage to the Dems on the council but will be a huge blow to Republicans in King County (as if things could be worse for them). The fallout could carry over a bit into the rest of the state.
09/30/2007 at 7:55 am
(YLB): GO RICHARD!
POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE! POPE!
09/26/2007 at 10:17 am
(Daddy): Given the choice, Richard is my guy.
09/28/2007 at 3:21 pm
(Ekim): Richard Pope, where do I contribute to your campaign?
09/26/2007 at 1:56 pm
(Darryl): I believe Richard is (demonstrably) the better person for the office …
09/26/2007 at 8:06 pm
Discuss.
– Whittaker Chambers, 1952.
Discuss.
For those here who say they believe in Me …
Never have I said, “do as I do.”
Isn’t it odd that I come here, yet the professed believers, post responses to My Word as if I could not answer for myself?
Do I need to “do” a miracle to obtain your faith?
Lost @31 & 32:
If only it were so simple as to “let others believe as they wish without casting scorn on them”.
Unfortunately, both Christians and Muslims have a long and sorry history of imposing their beliefs on others, often in a very violent manner. And this history is by no means solely in the past. These impositions occur to this day.
Christians like to cite the Bible as authority for their impositions. That’s why some of us actually take the time to read and study the Bible, to find out what it really says, and then go beyond that to find out who wrote it, why, who edited it, why, and who decided to include what parts of it in the biblical canon.
When we do that, we find out the vast majority of “Christians” don’t really know what they are talking about. The Bible says all kinds of things, many of which are wildly contradictory. It was written by many, many different people with many different agendas, many of them contradictory. It was subsequently edited by even more people with whole parts of it removed or added to, to change their meaning and support a later theology.
In short, Bible study is a fascinating subject. But one doesn’t have to study very long to realize it is not even a coherent body of writings, much less the revealed word of an omnipotent creator of the universe.
What is this? the blind leading the blind? I really wish you people could learn to read things in context. The laws of Moses were a long time in the future. They improved the ways of very ancient peoples like the times of which you are speaking here. For some reason we think people of thousands of years ago were supposed to be as advanced as we are. I’m a little hesitant to say that last part after reading some of these comments, though. In any case, ancient cultures had particular guidelines to follow to be accepted. Simply put, the daughters of Lot did nothing wrong because they thought the world had ended and were doing the logical next step which was legitimate in this (did I mention it was a long, long time ago?) society. It wasn’t the “biblical” way to do it. It was the way of the world at that time. Have you guys ever read any history books to see what times that are not called the Present were like or are you too busy playing video games?
SeattleJew–@35
Still feeling so full of anger and self-importance that you must call yourself
God??
Look SJ–
Why would anyone worship a God that they could totally understand everything about His Plan?
It’s foolish and a trap for the self-important elitist self-described Atheist Intellectuals.
You are too cool to lower yourself to a God who is more powerful & knowledgable than you see yourself.
Perhaps something humbling will happen to you SJ that causes you to re-evaluate your intellectual approach to Faith??
You are a bright guy…although misguided for whatever reason.
But SJ…I’ve personally witnessed the coming to Christ of folks way more intellectual than you.
Think about it.
Meditate about it.
And remember, God does understand the pain and ways of the world. He experienced it thru the birth, life, excruciatingly painful death and Resurrection of His only Son.
Don’t ever think God doesn’t understand.
PS–
I you want to read something that gets right down to a raw level………..
Read Ecclesiastes 8:9—9:1
And if for some reason you do not think God could possibly understand the pain and unfairness of life on Earth..
consider what his Son went thru>
Jesus lived a most righteous life and dies a grisly death…was that fair?
Wall Street thieves live unrighteous lives and avoid serious prosecution. Is that fair?
Of course not.
SO WHAT??
There, FIXED!
Everyone knows that shit happens all da damn time in the South.
Inbreds fucking inbreds. Is it any wonder they vote Republican?
Look here for a picture of Mr. Cynical and his brother/father/uncle/cousin at CPAC 2010.
http://klaussloves.files.wordp.....inbred.jpg
Mr. Cynical is the one on the right BTW.