Gov. Chris Gregoire and AG Rob McKenna have just issued a joint, bipartisan statement on Bill O’Reilly’s manufactroversy over the atheist display in the state Capitol:
“Last year, after a federal lawsuit was filed against the state of Washington by the Alliance Defense Fund, the state’s Department of General Administration set forth a policy allowing individuals or groups to sponsor a display regardless of that individual’s or group’s views.
“The Legislative Building belongs to all citizens of Washington state, and houses the state Legislature, as well as the offices of several state-elected executives, including the governor. The U.S. Supreme Court has been consistent and clear that, under the Constitution’s First Amendment, once government admits one religious display or viewpoint onto public property, it may not discriminate against the content of other displays, including the viewpoints of non-believers.”
So there you have it. I guess my pseudo-legal analysis of the issue was basically right.
It’s a shame that even their communications staffs had be distracted by bullshit like this when there are issues of so much greater import to address, but apparently the’ve been fielding hundreds of phone calls—mostly from out of state—after O’Reilly attempted to bully the governor by posting her phone number on national television.
Whatever.
Both Gregoire and McKenna have more important things to do, and if I were them I wouldn’t pay any more attention to Billo and his annual War on Christmas bluster.
I thought you did a very good job on the show, Goldy. Well done!
Good job on O’Reilly, Goldy. There’s no way that you can outshout a prick like him, but you did a great job of making a clear case.
I jus saw u david on bill orily show. Im sory u dont like jesus and chrismas. Mabe u desended from monkeys butt i ditnt.
As a famous sage once opined, we are indeed the “48th (ok, now 50th) soviet of Washington”.
Good for us, I say. Fuck Billo.
I enjoyed you laughing in the background. It came across clearly as sincere bemusement. How could you react otherwise when confronted with a comedy act like Billo…
I have never seen the idiot and doubt that I ever will. I find it asinine that with all the serious stuff going on in the nation and the world and this idiot O’Reilly (maybe he should be called O’ReallY? )has time to discuss the XMas Wars again.
TLG
They are incorrect. They are allowed to censor certain speech. The atheists (and I am one) go a step further and begin to bash other points of views. I, for example, could not put up a display simply saying “Mohammed was a phony prophet.’ They wouldn’t allow it. They’d say something like they couldn’t put it up because it’s too controversial, or too inciting. So Gregoire is wrong.
O’Reilly succeeds because he can trigger emotional responses from his audience. He doesn’t care about the law. The best way to deal with this is probably to just ignore O’Really until he moves on to some other pseudo-controversy that he can pretend to be outraged about.
Anybody know anything about our neighbors to the north? This doesn’t sound very good, but other than what I hear on Wiretap I’m not very Canadian literate.
http://www.cbc.ca/wiretap/
@7
The display isn’t calling for some sort of atheist jihad on Christians. Yes, there are limits on free speech, but this is well within them.
I am an atheist and to my thinking the proper name for the sign posting folks would be dickheads, not atheists.
Remember kids, just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
9
Interesting development up north. The Liberal, New Democratic, Bloc Quebecois, and Green Parties in Canada appear ready to form a quorum in Canada’s equivalent of Congress. Stephen Harper, the Prime Minister, and a member of the Conservative Party (which is far more liberal than our Republican Party), is having sphincter spasms at the thought of a possible vote of loss of confidence. Though Harper has reacted in a more sensible fashion to the global financial problem than has Bush, he is a conservative who fails to quite recognize that facts count. Conservatives don’t do well with economic issues. So, Harper’s most sensible country is having issues with his party in charge. A good question to ask at a cocktail party: Which country is our country’s biggest trading partner? Rarely will you get the correct answer: Canada. It would behoove all of us to know a bit more about our northern neighbor. (By the way, our second biggest trading partner is our southern neighbor.)
Proud Leftist @ 11
The Conservative Party of Canada is also more liberal than the Democratic Party of the United States. Stephen Harper supports keeping far more social welfare and government programs (which have been in place in Canada for many years now), than Barack Obama has promised to deliver in the United States.
@11, 12
Thanks!
Hey Goldy,
Know any Canadian bloggers that might do a guest post or two?
Gregoire states that the Legislative Building belongs to all citizens of Washington State. So what’s an organization from WisconSIN doing then on the steps of MY backyard. Talk all you want about believing/not believing, but according to CHRISTine’s statement- they have no right then to come and put up their venemous sign.
The placard read
I would find little to disagree with in the statement in the real world, although taken as public proclimation, the “hardens hearts” statement is ill chosen.
I am an atheist, but a big fan of Jesus’ philosophy. I am sure I am not alone in this admiration. But I do have a feeling, based on the “Christians” who post on this blog, and from the “Christians” I meet daily, that I am, with all my failings, far more a follower of Christ than most self proclaimed “Christians”.
It was interesting to see Billo Bumbly ramble on about Jesus as a philosopher… and use that as a case to compare the atheist posting as akin to having someone posting a sign denouncing “whatever Martin Luther King’s religious denomination was.”
That almost stuck a chord of agreement. But “Jesus” and his philosophy has almost nothing to do with modern American Christianity.
Modern American Christianity has almost as much to do with Jesus as Thanksgiving has to do with the pilgrims.
Jesus as a philosopher has much to be admired, Jesus as a poster boy for war, consumerism and xenophobia is much to be derided.
I think Jesus would agree.
This thread shows that Christians are 10 times more angry and violent than any muslim could ever be.
12
You are most certainly correct with regard to social welfare issues. Clinton essentially took welfare off the table here, for good or for bad, but certainly depriving the right of that issue (except for wingnuttia). On foreign policy issues, Harper has to some extent supported Bush, though Canadian military commitments have suggested more subjective support than objective. Afghanistan, yes–Iraq, no. I recognize that Harper wasn’t in charge at the inception of either Bush-launched war.
@16
Your comment tells me you don’t follow world news.
15
I pretty much agree with everything you said, and I am a church-going Christian. Stephen Stills once said that “Jesus Christ was the first nonviolent revolutionary.” I don’t know if Jesus was the first, but he was certainly a nonviolent revolutionary whose words have been twisted, perverted, and ignored by far too many people who call themselves “Christians.” I am a pacifist, pro-life (meaning I support feeding starving babies and not executing people) person, who came to those beliefs through the Gospel. How someone could claim that gun rights and cutting taxes are Biblical values is rather beyond me. Yet, we hear that nonsense all the time. I recognize that there arguably is a certain step around reason that leads one to religious belief; Kierkegaard called it a leap of faith. Some take the leap, some don’t. But, you, as a nonbeliever, seem to have a better grasp on what Christ preached than does the religious right in this country.
@ 19 Amen.
I do know some Christians like you. And they are some of the best people on this planet.
I may not share your faith, but I do admire your belief, and practice, of how people should treat other people.
That is something to celebrate Dec. 25th.
You people over there in the thick ‘Dem’ BS of the west-side need to get a grip. This coming holiday season is centered around Jewish and Christian events. Not atheist! Go make up an atheist holiday if that’s what you need! Don’t just go out and try to cut-down others! Also, are you idiots also going to head to Washington DC for MLK day this coming year and celebrate the KKK? I mean, come on! Look at what you’re doing! It’s absurd.
You are WAY out of line! Grow up.
And, Mr. Blogger, you did NOT do well on the O’Reilly clip. You came across as childish and immature, and didn’t have a single strong point! And, you need to learn how to spell, or else use spell-check. And, you call yourself a blogger. Ha!
Goldy, based on @ 21 and his “talking point” post, I think your national exposure has gained a lot of “fans” from the Billo Bumbly Dittoland!
LOL
Keep up the great work, Mr Blogger!
@ 21
I have my own personal atheist holiday. I call it Christmas. And on every “Christmas” I read the Beatitudes.
It goes like this:
You can celebrate these too, Tom!
Or you can go cut down a tree, consume more than you can afford, send an email against those damned “dem’s”,and send hate mail to those who do not share your “beliefs”. And then settle down for an extra-special episode of The O’Reilly Factor.
Regarding the last sentence of the atheist placard:
My own belief is that religion only “hardens hearts and enslave minds” when it is taken as a literal truth.
Literal truth is a recipe for disaster. Not just because it hardens hearts, but because “literal truth” is always just an interpretation. And then it hardens a heart and enslaves a mind to that interpretation.
That is why I temper religion (or philosophy) with a scientific sense of the “tentative”.
Something may be true, but all interpretations are tentative.
All proclamations from Billo are assumed to be Bullshit.
Hey Tom,
Do the 105,786 people in Spokane county that voted for Obama need to get a grip too? Or, how about the 51.57% (9070) of voters in Whitman county that voted for Obama?
I normally do not agree with McKenna, but issuing this joint statement, way to go. I am sure there are more important things they can cover. King 5 had this buried a few stories into the 11PM news, behind the economy, Sutherland approving that Gravel Mine on Maury Island, a coup in Canada(don’t worry, it is just three opposition parties that have more seats than Harper’s Conservatives agreeing to form a coalition if the Governor General asks upon a possible No Confidence Vote coming Monday. The irony, this could be their shortest-lived government, the election was only in October! No tanks rolling into Vancouver, plus they are all in Afghanistan anyway),as well as the Seattle Schools mess. The Canada Constitutional Crisis might affect us, since Washington and B.C are trading partners.
I want to see all government offices open
on Christmas and I want the mail to come too
in case Obama sends my check.
In 1835, I wrote “A Christmas Dinner” knowing full-well there would be a group of Atheist’s and a spineless governor doing there bidding. Please read this from my short story:
Leon Trotsky spews:
Leon…well said my friend.
The Atheist placard is clearly a statement aimed at antagonizing believers. Nothing more.
The Christmas Tree and Menora are merely symbols.
I’m all for the Atheists putting up their symbol…whatever that may be.
However, antagonistic statements really have no place next to someone else’s symbol.
That said, I’m glad it happened. Washington State is the 2nd least churched state in the US. It shows.
Read the Book of Daniel……..and remember Babylon. Washington’s Atheist crowd is trying to create Babylon and Gregoire is King Nebuchadnezzer.
She desperately needs to be born again….and to stand up for righteousness.
Gregoire has been stripped of all the money she so desperately needs, like Nebuchadnezzer… by an economic tragedy.
She has a clear choice TODAY…
Go down the secular road….or stand up.
It’s her CHOICE!
The consequences, if Gregoire is truly a believer, are immense.
Gregoire prides herself as a historian.
Please Christine….read the Book of Daniel for guidance.
@29
What about McKenna, it was a joint statement after all.
Michael–
The bottom-line is it’s GREGOIRE’s decision…not McKenna’s. McKenna is AG and gives his opinion…but it’s Gregoire’s DECISION. Her choice. Period. Not McKenna’s.
@ 23,
one more:
Re: #25 Michael
Yes, thanks for reminding me.
And, the answer is ‘YES’. They ‘do’ need to get a grip too. I appreciate the fact that you agree with me too. Thanks for the support!
Oh, and when Obama delivers the ‘next’ stimulus package to all of America, ‘again’, I’m going to go out and buy my first handgun, a concealed carry permit, and as much ammo as the remainder will buy.
This is such a great country! Freebees everywhere, and even more to come for at least the next four years.
This country is SO dumb!!! I blame both the Democrats and the Republicans. You are both blinded idiots with tunnel vision. You both deserve each other.
@31
McKenna’s a big boy, he could have declined. The AG is an elected position, not an appointed one.
@3 Leon Trotsky spews: “I jus saw u david on bill orily show. Im sory u dont like jesus and chrismas. Mabe u desended from monkeys butt i ditnt.”
@29 Mr. Cynical spews: “Leon…well said my friend.”
Too funny for words!
We, the Irgun wing of the born-again Jewish community, are down with Barrister Goldy’s brief for godless atheists in Olympia. Little David (Barrister Goldy), with a slingshot and rock-hard logic, smacked down Andre the Giant’s twin brother Bill.
2 of 2 AGs agree that the barrister got it right. Cool.
When Bill Clinton got caught in 1998, two objective journalists said they’d gladly blow him in gratitude for keeping abortion legal.
In 2008 I’d gladly debrief Barrister Goldy’s brief myself, assuming he wears briefs, in gratitude for saving the First Amendment. I’d even risk a tort by sliding down a barrister.
Mazel tov.
Ok, my two cents on this.
Why is the government involved in religious displays of any kind?
Not that I object when lawmakers take their faith with them into the legislature. Even when I disagree with them, I presume that their constituents knew their position on various issues, knew how their faith affects those positions, and voted accordingly.
I hope that our lawmakers follow the commandment “do justice, love mercy, walk humbly with your God”, which is common to all the Abrahamic faiths, and if the lawmaker is of another (or no) faith, well, if that person could manage two out of three, I’d call that a win.
How does any of that have anything to do with creches on the lawn of the Capitol building?
Perhaps at this Christmas season, if our lawmakers could manage to display the inward signs of faith, such as charity, humility, and honesty, we could forego the outward signs, such as creches, menorahs and signs.
For those that want displays celebrating the secular holiday of Christmas, we could have a tree or Santa. (Heck, some of the most impressive Christmas displays I’ve ever seen were in Hong Kong and Singapore, two primarily non-Christian countries.)
But as for those of my bretheren that feel a need to put up religious displays, I would ask that they consider the meaning behind this phrase:
“Preach the Gospel in all the world and if necessary use words” Saint Francis of Assisi
Somehow, I don’t believe he was talking about creches on the Statehouse lawn.
And a Merry Christmas to all. Whether you share my faith or not, I hope the day is joyous for you and yours, and that you are blessed in the coming year!
Your appeal for inward displays of charity, humility, and honesty taking precedence over outward displays of creches would have had currency in an era (c. 1955) when charity, humility, and honesty had currency.
Now the currency’s mostly debased, because religion and religiousity, inward and outward, are being debased.
There’s a war on, JB, in case you haven’t heard. The emergence of small shrill minorities from their closets is a good thing, most things considered, but it’s not an unalloyed good thing.
The alloy or lubricant (ahem) of hypersexual liberation (referring to the small shrill minority du jour) is that old majoritarian values, mostly derived from church or God, get stuffed in the closet from which the newly liberated emerge, screaming.
The defense of public display is as good or bad a place as any to draw a line, but it seems to some of us that a line must be drawn. Just in time for the small shrill minority of godless atheists to insist that it’s their line too. Oh well.
You people are IDIOTS who are atheist and live in Washington, along with the Queen Clown herself…by the way..who was that BUFFET EN-GORGING FATTY standing next to her on TV wearing those walmart glasses and wearing that black hand-me-down parachute she calls a shirt? Looks like they should of had her in the fields eating grass..!! LOSERS…ALL YOU ATHEIST..!!
Thanks for sharing, Billy.
I doubt anyone will answer my questions butt I’m gonna ax dem anyway:
1) For those of you who claim to follow the beatitudes and think they are more like Jesus than Christians here… how much money have you given to charity to help out your fellow man? Are you like Obama? Al Gorebasm? Joe Biden? Or are you like John McCain? George W. Bush?
2) How many of you have cut back your charitable contributions since the “downturn” in the economy?
3) How can you claim to be like Jesus and yet claim atheism? “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also.” ( John 14:6-7)
3) I think they’re claiming they follow most of the teachings of Christ (I’m told there are gobs of them) more closely than the people they’re denouncing. Which seems like a bit of an oxymoron to me, seeing how they’re denouncing people and all. I thought there was something about Jesus saying you should love your enemy and to walk softly in the footsteps of the lord (an easily secularized edict and good advise). But, what do I know I’m atheist who’s never read the bible.
Michael–
You’ve never read the Bible and are an Atheist?
Guess it’s the safe play.
You can easily not believe in something you never read and do not understand….or even try to understand.
Safe move….you think????
What if Christians are right about Eternal Life?
Concerning the Atheist display at the State Capitol in Olympia, WA:
On one side, we have the believer’s in Christmas. Their display is a pastoral scene of a small baby, laying in a manger, surrounded by his mother and father, and angels, and shepherds. It’s the symbol of a story of a loving God becoming man. This God becomes man to walk in man’s shoes and accept the punishment for man’s sins on Earth. This God shows man how to live a virtuous life, and teaches man to love one another. As documented in the New Testament of the Holy Bible, it’s a richly woven, highly detailed, yet amazingly subtle and nuanced story of love and redemption and hope and peace. God promises that those who love each other and believe in Him, will make the world a better place and have the reward of eternal peace and love in Heaven. It’s an offer, essentially, of hope for a better world and eternal love. But, it is an offer made with the acknowledgment that man has free will – man may accept the offer or freely reject it. All of the hope and promise of this Biblical story is contained in the simple display of a baby in a manger.
On the other side, we have a poster board from a local office supply store, with an insult written on it.
I think the two displays, side-by-side, are perfect. The message comes across clearly and effectively. It’s a choice.
Merry Christmas
QUESTIONS:
WHY DON’T YOU ATHEIST PUT UP YOUR SIGNS AND PROTEST OUTSIDE A MUSLIM MOSQUE? OUTSIDE A BLACK CHURCH?
WHY IS CHRISTMAS BEING TARGETED? WHY DON’T YOU PROTEST HANNUKAH, OR RAMADAN?
OR MAYBE, THAT IS NEXT ON YOUR LIST?
IF YOU SPENT AS MUCH TIME PROTESTING ON THESE SUBJECTS & WEBSITES, AND WORK ON YOUR CAREERS, AND YOUR FUTURE–YOU’D HAVE MILLIONS AND WOULDN’T GIVE A DAMN….GUESS YOU ARE UNSUCCESSFUL AND HAVE TOO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS,,,,LIKE THE FATTY ON T.V.
LOVE,
BILLY
REMEMBER TO SPREAD THE WEALTH FOR ALL YOU LEFT-WING NUTS…!!)