You’re not dreaming, kids.
Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels proposed today that all of the city’s taxis get at least 30 miles per gallon.
Nickels wants the switch from gas guzzler to climate friendly to be complete by 2013.
Most of the city’s current cabs are Ford Crown Victorias, which average about 18 miles per gallon.
City Council approval is required for the change.
“It doesn’t matter if your cab is orange, yellow or gray. We think they should be green,” Nickels said at a morning news conference under the Space Needle.
I use cabs on a regular basis. I’ve always wondered why the model of car cabbies use has always been the godawful Crown Vics. Eighteen miles a gallon sucks. The big upside to the Prius is that it actually gets better MPG in the city than on the highway. And you don’t have to plug ’em in!
My favorite complaint from the cab drivers?
Driver Gurminder Kahlon, who owns his own taxi, said, “It is very difficult for a driver to buy a $25,000 car,” he said. “There is a recession and Sound Transit opens next year.” He was referring to the planned 2009 start of light-rail service between downtown Seattle and Seattle-Tacoma International Airport.
But I thought that light rail to the airport would never work, crazy cab driver/monorail guy?
You do about as good a job of explaining why cab drivers should (in your opinion) be able to shell out $25,000 for new cars as you do explaining how 1.2 million households can buy a $28 billion light rail system by paying taxes of only $120 a year for 30 years.
Instead of posting this nonsense, why don’t you find out what cabbies actually earn? Yes, losing airport fares to light rail will hurt them economically because that’s the best paying taxi run around here, for people who already are barely eking out a subsistence.
Green cabs are nothing new here in Nevada. There’s a company that serves the communities around Lake Tahoe that’s been running taxis on biodiesel for some time now. The only caveat to this is the fact that due to the weather conditions, the company’s vehicles are all large trucks and SUV’s that are all 4WD. Also, many Crown Vic taxis in Reno and Carson City have been retired in favor of Toyota’s funky-but-extremely-versatile Scion xB wagon.
What’s true about buildings might also be true about cars: that is, that the greenest car [or building] is the one that’s already built.
With buildings, it’s easy: the energy required to produce a building, even a green one, is so far over and above the energy savings of a green building, that the greenest thing to do with most old buildings is to improve their environmental performance, but not to replace them.
It may well be that forcing someone to purchase a new vehicle (and foisting the old Crown Vic into the pool of the earth’s used cars in operation elsewhere) wouldn’t be a net improvement in the environment, compared to running the old car until it falls apart, and them having to buy the Prius.
Or, what about a city-sponsored program of retrofitting cabs with higher-efficiency powertrains?
Not to worry.
Our old pal Al Mullaly close Ford’s Windsor, Ontario plant over a year ago. They don’t make Crown Vics any more.
@4
Yay, exactly!
What kind of SUV does Nickles use?
A Scion xB costs less than $20k (a Prius is well over $30k)and gets around 30mpg in combined driving.
They use Crown Vics because they’re large, have lots of room, and an enormous trunk, not too mention being very crash-worthy. Try squeezing two fat people and all their luggage in for a ride to the Airport, and I suspect you’ll figure out then exactly why those puny little Prius’ simply will not work. I have a friend that drives a cab in Vancouver, B.C. and that’s exactly what he said. Makes sense to me greenies.
I think the reason why many cabs are Crown Vics is twofold:
(a) They are often called upon to transport several people at a time, with their luggage. They don’t have much control over when that will happen if they are in the airport or a hotel taxi que – they might get one businessman with a briefcase, or they might get a family of five, all with large checked baggage.
(b) They buy lots of their vehicles from the county surplus vehicle auctions, where retired police cars are commonly sold. I attended one with my son a few years back, when he was looking for a cheap car. It was pretty obvious which cars the taxi drivers were buying, if the Sihk turbans were any indication.
A Scion xB isn’t all that small either, and has scads of room in the back as well. Honestly, a Prius would make a shitty cab.
a Prius is well over $30k
They’re not cheap, but they aren’t normally over $30k. We paid $24K in January for one that wasn’t the base model.
The Scion might be a better choice, but let’s be realistic.
And don’t forget that all three ‘American’ auto manufacturers have fleet-sales divisions, selling to government agencies of all sorts and at all levels. And taxi companies were among the first customers of such efforts.
Follow up: The reason why police use crown vics or similar large cars is that they tried the economy cars back in the 80’s, and it didn’t work. They need to go from standing to high speed very quickly, and the economy cars actually spent more gas trying to do that than the bigger American-made cars. They have to carry a fair amount of equipment in their trunks, and small cars sometimes don’t give enough room in the trunk. Sometimes they need to transport (or just hold) more than one person in the back seat at a time. They need some space between the back seat and the driver. Finally, they need a fair amount of bulk to be crash-resistent, to be able to push a fleeing vehicle off the roadway, or simply to push a stalled vehicle out of traffic.
Try squeezing two fat people and all their luggage in for a ride to the Airport, and I suspect you’ll figure out then exactly why those puny little Prius’ simply will not work.
Have you ever driven/ridden in a Prius? They aren’t as big as a Crown Vic, but they’re larger than you seem to think.
I have seen Priuses (Pruisi?) go for over $30k here. and when they first came out, market demand frequently pushed the price over $40k, and I remember seeing some being sold for as much as $50k. And I am being realistic. How much so? Here’s another reason why a Prius would make a shitty cab: IIRC, Toyota claims that the Prius’ battery system would have a useful life span of around 5 to 7 years. That would be under ‘normal driving conditions’. I’d wager that life as a taxi would cut that battery life of a Prius by at least half, if not more.
You can get those Crown Vics that run on propane or natural gas as well. WTF?
Prius ..
fine but nOT in the back seat where cab passengers go.
back @4, I meant to end with “and then having to buy the Prius.”
Meaning, new cabs purchased & licensed, might have to be high-mileage vehicles. Not all that much different from the mayor’s plan to green by ’13, but nobody’d be forced to ditch their operational vehicle for a new one.
When Will isn’t making fun of injuries received by Vietnam War Heroes in battle and captivity, he is touting cab drivers as experts on domestic policy.
Will Says: “But I thought that light rail to the airport would never work, crazy cab driver/monorail guy?”
Will, it won’t work. The cost per rider including the subsidy from the government to or from the airport will be far higher than a cab ride. It will put cab drivers out of work but that is the idea isn’t it?
I have seen Priuses (Pruisi?) go for over $30k here.
I’m kinda partial to “Prii”, but YMMV.
Anyhoo, the high-end package probably does go for over $30k in some markets, but no one is talking about the high-end model. $25k is a far more realistic expectation for a low-end package.
I personally don’t think they would make great cabs (not bad either – just not as good as some think), but I’m amused by how much ignorance there is on both sides here.
Also, here’s the link to Toyota’s site. MSRP on the base model is $21,100.
http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/index.html
$25k is very reasonable to expect.
17:
Good point, but I’ll wager that a conversion like that wouldn’t be cheap. And it would be well and good to try E85 fuel (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline), but the trade off is about 25% lower MPG.
Welcome back, Will. Feel like apologizing for mocking McCains war injuries yet?
Okay TJ, you win on that one. But I still have issues with the battery life. And WTF is YMMV?
Okay TJ, you win on that one. But I still have issues with the battery life. And WTF is YMMV?
Oh, sorry. Your Mileage May Vary. I thought it would be appropriate. :-)
No problem. I wouldn’t say I’m overly sensitive to Prius slights, but I do tend to defend their honor. I had to be convinced by my wife to test-drive one a few years ago, and I was very surprised at what a good car it was. They’re not perfect, but they’re damn good cars.
There are people who regularly use taxis, and not just to get to and from the airport?
I think this is a great idea…ONCE the city, county and state officials using government vehicles go green first.
What does the mayor get for gas mileage? The gov? All those city employees using city vehicles?
TJ, a Prius ain’t bad, I’ll agree. But there are better solutions. Unfortunately, the truly best solution for replacing taxis and/or mass transit is something that would really cramp Roger’s dietary choices. Yeah, back to horse-drawn carriages!
28:
Agreed. Actually, I’ve seen several cities and government agencies, mostly here on the West Coast, experiment with hybrids and full-electrics, and even a few fuel-cell vehicles here and there. And just using more efficient gas-powered vehicles doesn’t hurt either. Recently, I noticed a Toyota Corolla in Nevada DOT livery while driving around Reno.
@ 28
The mayor rides a hybrid Toyota Highlander. He ditched the towncar a few years ago.
@ 28
The mayor rides a hybrid Toyota Highlander. He ditched the towncar a few years ago.
03/12/2008 at 7:54 pm
It is important to save the tax payers money in order to spend
it on more important things like hookers.
@30 – the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, averages 24-26 MPG, so still under 30 MPG
31 – Spitzer resigned Cur. He didn’t have people covering up for him like Hastert and others did for Foley.
Eat shit cur!
in addition to the cost of the cab what’s the cost of the medalion or the cost to join the cab monopoly?
In NYC over 150K …..
@20 Who cares what YOU think.
@24 Maybe if he hadn’t dangled his arms out the window he wouldn’t have broken them in ejection.
@36 Do I feel bad about making fun of McCain’s war injuries?
Naaaaaaaaaaah.
Why not? Many reasons:
1. He’s a Republican;
2. He’s a Republican;
3. He’s a Republican;
4. He’s a Republican;
5. He’s a Republican.
Need more reasons?
@37 This is what partisan warfare looks like, wingnuts! Enjoy. You started it.
Rabbit how did you know that McCain broke his arms while dangling them out of a window???? WTF They have John McCain military medical records… oh that right, those are only released for the real military heros. Nevermind roof roof.
Off topic:
A bunch of rich guys make an offer to the legislature to “save the Sonics.” As was discussed by Goldy here, the offer never had a chance, as said rich guys probably knew. Lo and behold, a few days later this shows up on Dino Rossi’s website. I’m no conspiracy theorist, but can anyone provide a better explanation for the richest people in Washington to make a Sonics offer that is doomed to fail? (By the way, I am saying that they did so to provide Rossi with some easy dirt he can use to smear Governor G.)
40
Yeah yeah. Are we to believe that a bunch of rich guys who happen to do business in corrupt King county are going to publicly conspire to make the queen look bad when we all know that KC handed the queen the election. roof roof. I am a dog and know better then that. heheheehhe
Noble: here’s the lastest…no Gregoire is saying it isn’t dead just yet.
http://www.king5.com/topstorie.....44d0b.html
Although with the time restrictions coming up next month by the investor group and the NBA commission, the Sonics will be long gone once 2009 comes up.
@37 You are a real piece of work Pelletizer.
GBS says:
I have a feeling the right will remain silent on this issue. There’s been so many Republican scandals of the last decade or so that their best bet is to no stir the pot.
03/10/2008 at 1:41 pm
This has got to go down as one of the most hilarious posts of all time. To think that we repubs would let you off the hook after all your lying BS
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In 1900 the world’s population was 1.6 billion. Today the world’s population is 6.6 billion. In 40 years, there will be 2 billion more people on earth.
What the fuck are green cabs in Seattle going to do? Not a damned thing. We need to address the real problem: Overpopulation.
45
Oh. Actually some donk scientists did address that back in the 60’s saying we would be all dead by now. I wonder where they all went???…. probably the same ones saying we are going to die from global warming in another 40 year. The more things change, the more they stay the same. hehehehehehe
In the near future, Republicans will be an asterisks in hstory books. Right next to “Disco” and “Pyramid Power”.
Hannah Montana @ 42
I think there are a lot better things to spend $150 million of public dollars on, than subsidize sports arena improvements for billionaire pro sports team owners. This is more money that Dino Rossi saved the taxpapers in 2003 by taking 40,000 children off of Medicaid and eliminating teacher cost-of-living increases. Rossi believes in taking public support away from the poor and middle class and giving it to the wealthy.
As one of the most respected blog commenters in America, and perhaps the world; someone with genuine gravitas, I would have to say… brb, important international phone call.
So when are Nickels, Sims, and Gregoire going to get all the police cars to be more fuel efficiant? I just came back from another state and they do not drive the battleships that our cops drive. There is no reason I can think of that a Seattle police car needs to be a Crown Vic.
@50,
Yeah, I’m with drool. Let’s all make superficial changes so we can feel good about ourselves, without having to address the real problems.
“Follow up: The reason why police use crown vics or similar large cars is that they tried the economy cars back in the 80’s, and it didn’t work. They need to go from standing to high speed very quickly, and the economy cars actually spent more gas trying to do that than the bigger American-made cars. They have to carry a fair amount of equipment in their trunks, and small cars sometimes don’t give enough room in the trunk. Sometimes they need to transport (or just hold) more than one person in the back seat at a time. They need some space between the back seat and the driver. Finally, they need a fair amount of bulk to be crash-resistent, to be able to push a fleeing vehicle off the roadway, or simply to push a stalled vehicle out of traffic. ”
Economy cars in the late 70s and 80s were anemic crap. The police cruisers then were too. My current hatch would run with an 80s police car and I get 29 mpg. I can make a
Copas carry some stuff in their car but nothing that requires them to be in a battleship. The crash argument is a red herring. If the mayor wants me in a little car he can put his cops in one. You don’t have to have all police cars with cages to transport. In fact many Crown Vics are not set up to transport perps.
I just came from a state that is using these: http://foto.meta.ua/albums/use.....ruiser.jpg
Cabbies pick up the Crown Vics from police auctions for usually a couple grand per vehicle. Something that gets 30-plus MPG pretty much means either a subcompact or a hybrid. A new(ish) hybrid vehichle is gonna run ’em 5 to 10 times what they pay for the Vics.
Make a change to the city’s fleet first before trying to stick it to the cabbies.
hybrids aren’t the eco they’re hyped up to be.
you’d be better off greasing an old diesel of some sort.
of course then mcdonald’s would start charging 4 bucks a
gallon for their fryer sludge…
…we’re DOOMED.