I don’t really care who came up with the idea first, Danny or Dan. (In fact, I’ve been quietly thinking along the same lines myself in recent weeks.) The point is, as long as we’re going to have to live without the Viaduct for a number of years regardless of the replacement option, why not just live without it and see how it goes?
Transportation planners predict massive gridlock if the Viaduct disappears, but… well… transportation planners have been wrong before. One thing we’ve learned from our nation’s freeway construction binge is “build it, and they will come.” And one thing we’ve learned from the few experiments in freeway removal is “tear it down, and people will find some other way to get the hell where their going.”
Okay, that second catch phrase isn’t all that catchy. But for the most part it’s true.
I’ve always found it odd, the argument that Highway 99 is a vital north-south freeway that we simply cannot do without, when in fact the vast majority of 99 runs at-grade, traffic lights and all. And ironically, my own yearlong personal experience routinely heading north on 99 from South Seattle to Ballard during afternoon rush hour found that the double-decker Viaduct was the only portion of 99 that was absolutely guaranteed to be mired in stop-and-go traffic.
How could a surface street option possibly be any worse?
So yeah, tear down the Viaduct, try the “surface plus transit” alternative, and let’s see if it works. And if it doesn’t, well… we can always blame Danny and Dan.
UPDATE:
David Sucher points out that he argued for this approach way back in May. So there you have it… two Dans and two Daves all think it’s a good idea. What’s there to lose?
UPDATE, UPDATE:
One sign that an idea is catching on is when everybody starts demanding credit for it.
WE CAN LIVE WITHOUT THE VIADUCT IN MY OPINION BUT WE NEED TO REBUILD THE SEAWALL.
AND YOU HAVE TO TUNNEL TO FIX IT.
Hmmm. Excavate, perhaps. Then back and fill. The safety hazards of a tunnel, along with the difficulties for first responders to a disaster in the tunnel make it a non-starter for me.
That’s a great idea Goldy. Of course if it doesn’t work and the port has to shut down and all the workers lose their jobs. You can be like the new democrat majority in the United States House of Representitives regading their promise to work 5 days a week and pass all these bills in the first 100 hours…Never Mind.
HEY ROB. THE NEW DEM CONGRESS WILL PASS THE TOP ITEMS ON THEIR AGENDA A LOT FASTER THAN IN 1994 WHEN THAT PARAGON OF ETHICS AND VIRTUE, NEWT GING..
OH HE WAS A SCUMBAG. NEVER MIND
4: YOS LIBTARD BRO. If you are happy with them lying to you I am good with it. I didn’t vote for the liars.
I didn’t vote for the liars.
OH YOU MUST MEAN THE GINGRICH CROWD. I HEAR HE WANTS TO BE YOUR NEW DEAR LEADER ROB. I JUST KNOW YOU’LL THROW THE LEVER FOR GINGRICH LIKE A GOOD WINGNUT. IT’S A KNEE JERK REFLEX WITH YOU PEOPLE.
Re: 6. I always get a chuckle out of you Los Libtard Bro. In case you were still sucking your moms tit. Newt took contol of the House 12 years ago. I was actually talking about the liars you just elected in 2006. Do you remember that?
i seem to recall some uw profs op-edding this closure idea in sea times a couple years back. high 5!
AND I GET A CHUCKLE OUT OF YOU TOO ROB. SEE WE HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON AFTER ALL.
THE NEW DEMS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SINK PRETTY LOW BEFORE THEY DISAPPOINT ME. THIS IS AFTER SUFFERING THROUGH THE LAST 6 YEARS OF THIEVERY, LIES AND INCOMPETENCE FROM THE CROWD YOU KNEE JERKED INTO OFFICE ROB.
3 Hey, Rob…I don’t know if you’ve taken a look lately, but the section of Elliott Bay shoreline next to the elevated viaduct has hardly qualified as a “port” for years. The only legit commercial seaport activities along there are the ferry terminal, the fireboat station (easily relocated) and the cruise ship terminal (which the port has already said is moving to Pier 90). All the rest is restaurants, shops, the Aquarium, the tour boats and other tourist-oriented miscellania. Now, look down south of there…see all those great big cranes, and bigger ships? That’s a PORT, son. Now, you might notice that around where that starts, the Viaduct descends to terra firma. I don’t think the debate about what’s going to happen in the next big earthquake really applies there.
Everyone’s agreed that the seawall has to be replaced, and the way that’s going to happen is that all of our beloved Old Seattle Waterfront is going bye-bye. Mind you, afterwards they’ll erect some new “piers” with Disneyesque approximations to the original Ivar’s, Ye Old Curiosity Shoppe and such–probably some swanky new replacement for the Bilgewater Inn, for that matter. The originals, and all the authentic but non-“commercially hip” places that won’t return will in themselves be sufficient for Clark Humphrey to fill another volume of “Vanishing Seattle”.
“Okay, that second catch phrase isn’t all that catchy. But for the most part it’s true.”
Not really, Goldy. What’s true is that if you don’t have enough capacity for the traffic, it takes you 3 hours to get from Northgate to Fife.
Democrats May Deny Funds for Iraq Surge
By DAVID ESPO, AP
WASHINGTON (Jan. 8) – In a blunt challenge to President Bush, the leader of the Senate’s new Democratic majority said Monday he will “look at everything” within his power to wind down the war in Iraq, short of cutting off funding for troops already deployed.
“I think we’ve got to tell the president what he’s doing as wrong. We’ve got to start bringing our folks home,” said Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada, in remarks that portend a struggle if … Bush announces plans … for an increase in troop strength of 20,000.
… Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, said one option under consideration would be for lawmakers to vote on denying the use of funds for any increase in the U.S. deployment. Officials said late Monday night that the Massachusetts Democrat was preparing legislation that would require Congress to approve the deployment of more troops …
… Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., suggested over the weekend using Congress’ power of the purse to restrain any troop buildup. …
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://tinyurl.com/yngvsh
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Eat shit, wingnut warmongers! You’ve had your run. Now the adults are taking over.
” And ironically, my own yearlong personal experience routinely heading north on 99 from South Seattle to Ballard during afternoon rush hour found that the double-decker Viaduct was the only portion of 99 that was absolutely guaranteed to be mired in stop-and-go traffic.
How could a surface street option possibly be any worse?”
This is where Reicherts comment is dead on ” let the engineers decide”.
Engineers would tell you, you cannot tear down a double decker structure, with what? 5 or 6 lanes on each level, and replace that with a 4 lane road.
So Goldy’s question “How could a surface street option possibly be any worse?
That’s basic math. A surface option would be a nightmare.
Hey Goldy:
I’ll be brief and to the point. You’re full of shit.
Check your spelling before you try to question my intelligence. Your childlike errors only make you look pathetic — and I do not want people feeling sorry for you.That’s why they put Mallard Fillmore in the funny papers to begin with: so you Retardicans could feel better about yourselves with your own unfunny dumbhead comic strip.
rob says:
re: 17. Earnst(sic) T(.) Bass, you should probably read something other than the huff and puff before you start claiming how smart you Libtards are. By the way Slyvester Reyes was chosen by are new stretched face American Nanny. Nancy Pelosi.
Democrat flunks his first intelligence test
In Denver, if you found a shortcut with little traffic, by the end of the week EVERYONE would know about it. The drivers in the Seattle area are polite lemmings and they never veer from their original route.
There are many ways to get around the traffic — but it’ll take more than “Mapquest” for you to find them. The first year that I was here the job that I found was as a carpet cleaner, sor within months of arriving, I knew the area better than most natives.
I don’t know when you’ve been on the double-decker, but it gets me to the south end of Seattle faster than any other street during rush hour 7:30-8:30 and 3:30-5:00. I frequently have meetings around Safeco and drive from the north end. Take away the viaduct and it is twice the drive.
But, get the port traffic and commercial traffic another route and we could probably do without the vaiduct. So, what’s your solution for that traffic?
WINGNUT INNOCULATION TIME – THAT MEANS YOU WRONGON.
THE U.S. JUST BOMBED SOMALIA. I HOPE THEY TOOK OUT A FEW TERRORIST BASTARDS AND AVOIDED MAKING NEW TERRORISTS.
Hey Goldy – It was actually me… yer ol’ buddy MTR who first proposed this idea. I’m glad you agree with me. Here’s my post from December 1, 2006… way before dan and danny.
Mark The Redneck KENNEDY says:
You’re all wrong. The best option is no viaduct at all. No tunnel. No bridge. No nothing. Tear it down and be done with it.
You are all stuck in the old paradigm of people driving cars. That is a hopelessly inefficient method of moving people.
Instead, we should set a goal of making cars obsolete in Western Washington within 25 years. People could own one for trips out of the area, but for daily getting around, just jump on a soundtransit train.
We should also alter the economy of the area so that most people can work “virtually”. We should encourage Boeing and other old manufacturing companies to leave, and replace them with new jobs that can be done in a “flat world”. That would also reduce the need for large high priced office buildings and would result in fewer crane accidents.
I’m sure Ron Sims would embrace this idea as part of his initiative to fix global warming. What better way than to make the car obsolete. Hell, I’ll bet we could get Algore to MOVE HERE and lead the effort if we did this, since he also thinks this is a good idea.
Knocking down the viaduct and not replacing it would make a powerful statement that Seattle is going to take the lead on moving us to a new means of transportation.
12/01/2006 at 3:08 pm
This proves it:
“Great Minds Think Like MTR.”
Let’s try something Andrew proposed over at the NW Progressive Institute blog. Before we start tearing down the viaduct, let’s just close it off for a few days and see what happens. Call it a thorough safety inspection, call it a civic preparedness exercise, call it what you will, but just see what the absence of the viaduct would do for those few days. At the worst, drivers get inconvenienced for a couple of days we get some good data on what would happen if, God forbid, the viaduct decided to fall over one day. It’s the kind of thing that emergency management officials are supposed to do.
And most likely we’ll see up close and personal that yes, we do need some kind of traffic solution through that part of town.
The viaduct is shut down numerous times every year for such things as the 4th of July fireworks, charity runs and walks, inspections, etc. We seem to survive these shutdowns without calamity occuring.
YKM at 21: Actually, that’s not a bad idea. All the previous closures have been scheduled for weekends, holidays, nightime, etc., so it would have less impact on traffic. But to make it an effective test, we need to close it for at least a couple of weeks, and make sure at least one major event is occuring in Seattle during that time (Mariner’s day game, major concert, etc.).
That should resolve the issue pretty quickly, and it might rally more support for the other options, even with the associated costs.
I still favor a tunnel, provided that I can be convinced that they can make one which is earthquake-proof. As an Everett resident, I would be a lot more inclined to visit the Seattle waterfront during the summer (and spend more dollars there) if it wasn’t so noisy, and parking was easier. I’d be willing to chip in some of the costs as part of my taxes, if they could include it as part of the regional transportation plan. I don’t think this is a state-only or Seattle-only issue. Just about everyone King, Pierce, and Snohomish County benefits from having another north-south thoroughfare open. I-5 and I-405 can only do so much, and its not realistic to assume that we can widen I-5 through Seattle in the next couple of decades. As it is, I usually take I-405 and bypass Seattle completely, unless I’m actually heading to an event or location in the downtown area.
By the way, we have lots of business visitors from Asia who never see Seattle during their trips here. They arrive at Sea-Tac, get a hotel room in Bellevue, and visit Boeing in Renton and Everett, traveling along I-405, and then return to Sea-Tac to depart. Everyone avoids Seattle because of the percieved traffic problems, and its effect on tight schedules.
YKM: they do close the viaduct every so often for safety inspections, but usually on weekends and people still complain a little bit [metblogs]. Sometimes they even let the public walk around on it to see how it looks without cars. Maybe they should try doing it during rush hour or when there’s something happening in SoDo.
By the way, I often have to expedite shipping of large items from the Port to Boeing/Everett, arriving either by ocean vessel or by air. The large items include aircraft seats and galleys, winglets, etc.
Over the past few years Boeing has transformed its receiving process into a “just-in-time” delivery system, in order to reduce storage space, inventory costs, and associated re-shipping costs and risks of moving the parts from storage warehouses to the production line. This means the available window in which Boeing will permit delivery of large items has shrunk to about three working days. Also, to cut costs, some Boeing receiving areas (such as the one which receives seats and galleys) is only fully staffed for first shift, so no large items (such as seats and galleys) can be delivered to Boeing/Everett after 1:30 P.M. If you are late (past the on-dock date), Boeing can assess financial penalties.
In the meantime, the seat manufacturers in Europe are pretty far behind schedule for a variety of reasons, and the seats are arriving by air on the same day they are due at Boeing/Everett. Boeing wants the seats delivered by 1:30 that day, because they want to inspect them, stage them, and install them in the aircraft the next day. The flight arrives about 9:00 A.M., and the airline releases the freight for pickup about 10:00 A.M. Customs clearance occurs by the same time, if you are lucky, but more likely it doesn’t occur until 11:00 A.M..
So, how do you get three or four trucks to pick up 300+ airline seats (no double-stacking permitted) from Sea-Tac, and get them to Everett, through Boeing security, and to the loading dock by 1:30 P.M.? It’s not easy, under the best of traffic conditions.
Imagine what would happen if the traffic on I-5 doubles.
As for the regional economy, remember that when Boeing decided to build the 787 in Everett, it did so on the condition that that the state was undergoing significant traffic programs to reduce congestion and make deliveries easier. If the 787 does well in the first couple of years in service, Boeing will be considering re-vamping its entire fleet to incorporate 787 technology, including carbon-fibre composit structures. If the traffic situation in this area deteriorates further, we may find that final assembly of new lines of aircraft could be moved elsewhere.
Ivan @ 14–I’ll be brief and to the point. If you think that Seattle is obligated to build a larger, uglier viaduct on its’ waterfront so you can get into town quicker, then you are full of shit. Tunnel or surface, do the right thing.
22-24
Exactly. Closing it for a few hours on the weekend doesn’t really give you any information. Close it say for four days, Thursday through Sunday, with Thursday being a Mariners afternoon game day, and see exactly how it affects traffic. That way you get some normal commutes (Thursday morning), some heavy traffic (Thursday PM commute/after-game traffic), and a weekend and can compare them.
Depending on whether you want to cause less inconvenience to the public or have a more realistic simulation, you could schedule the game against an opponent like Tampa Bay (light attendance) or New York (full house).
re 20: I thought of it first. And when I said so you reported that 110,000 autos used the viaduct every day and that I was wrong.
You are such a liar.
Hey Loocy – Is transportation like checkers?
It’s MY idea MTR, not yours. You lousy credit taker.
re 29: Pick the Definition – Used to cover your ass when you say something stupid and to attack your opponents. Often words mean many things. There are things called dictionaries which list these multiple meanings. So, you can use an alternative definition to claim an opponent meant something other than what is clearly obvious, or you can claim you meant something other than what was clearly obvious (such as Don Strangefeld’s musings on the word “slog,” which to his credit was admittedly somewhat tongue-in-cheek). This one is so widespread I’m not sure we can pick a winner.
re 29:War on Analogy – When conservatives pick apart an analogy by bringing in utterly irrelevant details. For example, if I write “Iraq is, in many ways, like Vietnam,” a graduate of the wingnut debating school will respond with “You’re wrong! Iraq is in the Middle East!” Or, if one points out to Andrew Sullivan the similarity between Jayson Blair and certain journalistic lapses under his own watch, he could respond with “They’re nothing alike! Jayson Blair is lefthanded!” I think Jay Caruso is current champion of this technique. (Atrios)
War on Metaphor – Where conservatives pretend people who were clearly speaking metaphorically were speaking literally, and criticize them based on that. Andrew Sullivan’s been excelling at this one lately. (Atrios)
re 29:
MTR: You are an idiot.
On KCTS Connects Sunday, Gary Locke, Ralph Munro and Cathy Allen predicted a third option where a tunnel is excavated down the Western Avenue right of way, leaving the viaduct in place while the tunnel is built, then dismantling the viaduct when the tunnel is completed.
If the city council agrees to that plan, no vote will need to take place.
The idea that the viaduct doesn’t carry a significant amount of N-S traffic is bullshit.
So are metaphors and analogies like checkers?
Wingnut Xray
37 – HEY THAT’S GOTTA BE MTR!
The shipping “stuff” to Boeing is being (will be) handled in several different manners. The Port of Everett is setting up some container handling operations exclusive to Boeing. Paine Field may be modified for added cargo handling.
The I-5 corridor probably cannot become “worse.” Putting a few thousand more vehicles on the freeway ramps (that’s where they “sit” when the traffic lanes are stop & go) won’t make the transit time from SeaTac to Everett take any longer.
Actual gridlock can stop all traffic, but that is rarely caused by volume; more often by serious accidents, nearby fires or police activity.
@5 “I didn’t vote for the liars.”
rob saying he didn’t vote for liars is like Ted Bundy saying he’s against crime.
If You’re So Smart @13 how come you don’t know that AWV has only 3 lanes in each direction? And that none of the replacement options would expand traffic capacity?
But I don’t believe for an instant that non-replacement is a viable option. Nor is a surface street.
38
I ain’t namin’ names, but you could take your pick.
The idea to do absolutely nothing about the viaduct was always MINE. Not yours, MTR. If it falls and kills some people then that will really solve the traffic congestion in that area!
Bada Bing Bada Boom
Pot Meet Kettle @ 26:
We’ll see who is full of shit, buckaroo, or maybe you don’t underestand that 99 is a state highway, and if Seattle votes for a Viaduct, we will have a Viaduct.
If Seattle does not vote at all, and if the Governor says to build a Viaduct, then we will have a Viaduct. If Seattle votes for a tunnel, which it won’t because people are pissed at writing blank checks to politicians (Iraq says hello), then all the yuppie scum and oh-so-hip little trendoids who want “vibrant” can jolly well pay through the nose for it.
If there was mass transit in place, it would be another story. But it’s not in place. Fifty years from now when (we hope) there is mass transit, then tear it down.
The argument for tearing down the viaduct when there is nothing to replace it is a classist, elitist argument. Working people need it. These are people’s lives and livelihoods you’re fucking with.
The argument that it fosters pollution and global warming is likewise bullshit. Soon we will all be driving clean electric cars, and those cars still will need a right of way.
The argument that people should abandon personal transportation for the greater good is ludicrous beyond belief, and those who spew it are worthy only of ridicule. Personal transportation has been part of human existence since the first caveman jumped on a horse.
If there is more and better public transportation, and if it meets people’s needs, people will use it. Or maybe when it comes to transportation, you’re not pro-choice. How “progressive” of you.
Responding to whl at 39:
“The shipping “stuff” to Boeing is being (will be) handled in several different manners. The Port of Everett is setting up some container handling operations exclusive to Boeing. Paine Field may be modified for added cargo handling.”
Currently the Port of Everett is being upgraded to handle increased traffic incidental to Boeing 787 production. Actually, most of this is related to the new dock at Mukilteo, which will unload large fuselage and Wing sections arriving from Japan directly onto a spur track which goes up Japanese Gulch (an ironic name) directly to Boeing Everett. But the number of container ships which will regularly travel to Mukilteo or Everett will continue to be few in number, because little cargo other than Boeing is destined for Everett, and the rail links for forwarding other cargo end up going to Seattle anyway. If the ships aren’t scheduled to Everett, you can’t add a container or two on board, you have to choose anther nearby port. Currently I see most of the shipping cargo going to Seattle or Tacoma, and then trucked to Boeing from there.
As for Paine Field, I think that’s a fine alternative, but talk to the folks with the expensive homes in Mukilteo who are blocking any additional traffic from that field. They have the city government agressivly blocking any additional freight or commercial use of the field, Mukilteo recently made a bid to annex the field itself (which I believe is owned by Snohomish County).
“The I-5 corridor probably cannot become “worse.” Putting a few thousand more vehicles on the freeway ramps (that’s where they “sit” when the traffic lanes are stop & go) won’t make the transit time from SeaTac to Everett take any longer.”
Transit time, from anybody’s reasonable definition, is from door-to-door. It doesn’t matter if it takes 30 minutes from SeaTac to Everett if you spend 45 minutes waiting on side streets or on-ramps to get onto the freeway.
“Actual gridlock can stop all traffic, but that is rarely caused by volume; more often by serious accidents, nearby fires or police activity.”
I didn’t mention gridlock itself, just longer commute times due to increased traffic. The more traffic, the more the “accordian effect” eventually slows traffic to a crawl. I see it frequently on my commute from Everett to Bellevue and back. If I am on the freeway before 5:45 A.M., I usually have pretty much a straight shot to Bellevue (40 – 45 minutes). If I wait until 6:00 A.M., it’s a bit over an hour. If I wait until 6:15 A.M., its closer to an hour and a half. And that’s not including any unusual accidents, police activity, or natural disasters.
I will add that after my eight-hour commute home the Monday after Thanksgiving (caused by an unsusual snowstorm right during the evening commute), I saw the folly of opening the carpool lanes to all traffic after 7:00 p.m. About fifteen minutes before the lanes opened, everyone jumped over into the lanes, causing them to get just as jammed as every other lane, with nobody moving any faster. They couldn’t move any faster even in the carpool lanes, because the entire freeway was blocked by a bus and tractor-trailer rig colliding and blocking the entire freeway. But what opening the carpool lanes after 7:00 P.M. did was prevent any emergency vehicles from responding to the emergency and clearing the problem. It was a disaster. I never understood the wingnut argument that since the carpool lanes aren’t needed after the commute, that they should be opened to everyone. If the commute is over, why do you need to be in the carpool lanes anyway???
Ivan @ 45
You and I aren’t really that far apart. I live in West Seattle and use the viaduct every day. The people I see using it every day are working class folks and the small businesses that keep Seattle running–plumbers, handymen or women, roofers, etc. These yellow page businesses have offices in SODO or Ballard and need a way to get from one end of the city to another. For them, time is money.
But where I differ from you is your demand for another elevated structure. I would venture to guess that you spend little time in downtown Seattle unlike the half million people who work there most of their waking lives or the increasing numbers of young and old who choose to live downtown where they don’t burden our roads and transit.
You are right, the gov and suburban and rural folks like you can ram a viaduct down Seattle’s throat. I get it. But don’t you pretend like there will be no political or social cost to your actions. Look at the Mariner vote several years ago–the M’s got the stadium they wanted with large amounts of public money even though they lost the election. Yet the process left the public with anger over the powerlessness they felt about their vote and what it meant.
But we don’t owe you an easy trip into Seattle, Ivan. Seattle owes its citizens first. I am a realist about transportation. I do my best. My wife and I have one car, two kids at two schools and two jobs. We use buses and the viaduct each day. I favor a tunnel, but would gladly support surface options before I build another bigger, uglier viaduct on the waterfront–even if it costs me 30 minutes a day.
You conclude with a stirring defense of the automobile:
“The argument that it fosters pollution and global warming is likewise bullshit. Soon we will all be driving clean electric cars, and those cars still will need a right of way.”
“The argument that people should abandon personal transportation for the greater good is ludicrous beyond belief, and those who spew it are worthy only of ridicule. Personal transportation has been part of human existence since the first caveman jumped on a horse.”
“If there is more and better public transportation, and if it meets people’s needs, people will use it. Or maybe when it comes to transportation, you’re not pro-choice. How “progressive” of you.”
I guess the difference between us is that I am willing to change the paradigm. We can’t build enough lanes for the “personal transportation” you desire. They take up too much space and cost too much in an urban environment. So we need to move towards transit. I want a tunnel because I think the corridor needs to be there for the next fifty years. But I don’t think it is worth it if it is above ground. It is as simple as that. In the meantime I will continue to work for transit options.
Pot meets kettle @ 47:
I don’t remember saying I wanted an unlimited number of lanes, or saying that I thought we should add any. I want to retain the capacity we have, and the flow. I want to be able to enter Route 99 from First Avenue and exit at First Avenue, as we can now, but could not from a tunnel.
The Governor has said that the insane “surface option” is off the table, so people should just forget about it. No pony for them this Christmas.
As for “changing the paradigm,” I telecommute exclusively. But not everybody can be like me.
As for the “political and social cost” of the Legislature’s restructuring of the stadium package, that is an altogether bogus line of reasoning. “The public” was evenly split during that election, and not one, repeat, NOT ONE legislator who voted for the restructuring of the funding failed to win re-election as a result.
The Mariners and the Seahawks are packing in the crowds, and the cost of the stadiums was spread across the state, so any whining about it at this point comes only from sports-hating sore losers. Those people are free not to patronize the stadiums, just as militant illiterates are free to boycott the public libraries that their taxes pay to build and maintain.
Goldy wrote: “I’ve always found it odd, the argument that Highway 99 is a vital north-south freeway that we simply cannot do without, when in fact the vast majority of 99 runs at-grade, traffic lights and all. And ironically, my own yearlong personal experience routinely heading north on 99 from South Seattle to Ballard during afternoon rush hour found that the double-decker Viaduct was the only portion of 99 that was absolutely guaranteed to be mired in stop-and-go traffic.”
Goldie: Did you ever consider why the elevated portion is S&G traffic?
Coming back from the airport last night the wife called and said there was a bad accident in Lynnwood and it backed traffic down passed Boeing field with normal rush hour added it. I took 518 to 509N to 99N which includes the AWV. In any analysis Goldie forgets to analyze!
I took note of this route during 5:30PM time to determine if this is a viable alternate route to get home.
Well let’s see. The AWV riser has three lanes. First Ave traffic comes on. It’s four lanes. Then the exit spins off for Seneca Street. What did I observe? The First Ave traffic flies down toward the Seneca St traffic exit and then tries to cut over. This slows down traffic. People jump from the outside lane cutting off the more inner lanes wich causes the Frogger traffic movement cycle. Why don’t these Moonbat!s merge over earlier? Or why are most King County Moonbat!s so inhospitable to allow the First Ave. traffic to merge in? I wonder!
Next you have the exit before the Battery Street Tunnel. Again people rush up to the last second when the signs and the road arrows display a lane closure. What do the Moonbat!s do again? They wait till the last second to merge in.
Then you have the Denny Way traffic light. Now that’s a useful idiot light system. Seattle Traffic Control Managers should retime the light for 99 traffic at rush hour. So it backs up into the tunnel and backs up down the AWV. After Denny Way traffic begins to move. Except when the buses are in the right lane and it impedes traffic because people stupid enough to follow a bus which stops frequently, do a DUH and then try to cut over which slows down the inside lane.
Notice I didn’t discuss the Moonbat! driving methods of people who don’t want to hit their brakes so at 5 or 10 MPH they leave 5 or 6 car lengths and then people in adjacent non moving lanes think “there’s an opening so let me jump in it” Then the fool who was doing 5 MPH with the 6 car lengths has to hit his brakes anyway and this also causes the Frogger effect.
Bottom line: If people kept the one car length between them and just moves along together like a marching band moves in unison, many traffic problems could be solved.
But, have you seen these King County Moonbat!s shaving, combing their hair, putting on makeup, dialing their phone, reading email? Of course King County traffic on the AWV will suck. Moonbat!s are everywhere, with an occasional neocon thrown in trying to get home!
YOS LIB BRO (Clueless) says: HEY ROB. THE NEW DEM CONGRESS WILL PASS THE TOP ITEMS ON THEIR AGENDA A LOT FASTER THAN IN 1994 WHEN THAT PARAGON OF ETHICS AND VIRTUE, NEWT GING..
OH HE WAS A SCUMBAG. NEVER MIND
What happened to their first 100 hours? Is it stretching into the first 1000 hours? Funny how that works!
Furball Pelletizer:
Isn’t that the same Edward M. Kennedy who led the charge for economic funds cutoff for South Vietnam and the country collapsed?
Isn’t that the same Edward M. Kennedy who said we were stopping the democratic development in Cambodia.
Isn’t that the same Edward M. Kennedy who ignored Pol Pot and the Filling Fields in Cambodia.
Isn’t this the same Edward M. Kennedy who conveyed a message to Chairman Yuri Andropov on how to defeat Ronald Reagan and the United States Military? Isn’t that treason?
http://sweetness-light.com/arc.....-help-ussr
“KGB Letter Details Ted Kennedy’s Offer To Help USSR”
Isn’t that the same Edward M. Kennedy who ignored the Rwandan genocide?
Isn’t this the same Edward M. Kennedy who said Gerry “The Fag” Studds changed Massachusetts forever? Yeah, some butts got reamed! http://www.sweetness-light.com.....leadership
Oh it must be another Senator Edward M. Kennedy from Massachusetts!
Isn’t that the same Edward M. Kennedy who forgot to alert authorities about Mary Jo Kopechne?
Moonbat! #37 & 38. Matt Groenig, Homer Simpson’s creator is a Moonbat! Google it!