I was going to add a more narrative description of the Inaugural Ball, but there’s no need to duplicate David’s detailed comments in the previous thread. It was a lovely evening, and a good time seemed to be had by all.
The only thing I’ll add is how impressed I was with the renovation of the Capitol building. Perhaps our representatives’ level of political discourse will be elevated by their surroundings.
But the greatest impression I came away with last night is that Christine Gregoire is indeed, our governor. Not governor “elect”. Not a temporary governor, or an illegitimate governor, or weak or lame-duck or any of the more pejorative adjectives spat about on the right-wing blogs… but governor.
As one longtime political correspondent observed, Republican legislators can stand up in public and dutifully repeat the party’s talking points about a “stolen election”… but pretty soon they’ll be knocking on Gregoire’s door, asking the Governor to sign their bills.
And there ain’t nothing illegitimate about that.
Unsatisfied with attacking Gregoire with a frivilous election contest, right wingers now attack Reed
A Seattle man has filed a petition to recall Republican Secretary of State Sam Reed, accusing him of missteps in the general election that let Democrat Christine Gregoire step into the governor’s seat Wednesday.
I guess they have to now right?
Reeds is part of conspiracy against them. He has to go. Now we are going to see posts stating how easy it will be to recall Sam Reed and how clear the evidence is against Reed despite the law on the matter.
And of course, there is the mandatory orange protest we can aticipate outside the Secretary of State’s Office with signs of “Recall Reed Now. Sign the petition at http://www.recall.org“
Not a temporary governor, or an illegitimate governor?
That is definitely arguable… And will be argued in a court of law.
hey, after reading the descriptions of the ball, I wish I’d gone — it sounds like it was fun. Oh well, maybe I’ll go in 2009.
bj-too
This is the fellow who said his parents died years ago and he continues to receive their absentee ballots and had kept them.
Last weed a roomie sent him an email suggesting that had he returned the ballots with decased writtten on the front, they would have taken action, perhaps.
Fellow did not think that was his responsibility or something to that effect.
At the the big party last night Sam Reed got cheered only second to Gregoire. His offic DID have champagne and very fine choclate eclairs in unlimited supply.
Goldy–
Looks like you folks won.
I thought everyone agreed the Republican challenge should be heard post-haste? But clearly the Dem strategy is going to be to stall it ad infinitum thru any legal means necessary. The R’s had to name all 39 County Auditors. Well guess what, I doubt if there is a Judge in this State that cannot somehow be challenged by one of these 39 or one of the other parties.
Stonewalling is the oldest strategy in the book. Perfectly legal in a court of law. Perfectly dangerous in the court of public opinion.
There is a risk to every strategy Goldy. You are in the drivers seat for 2 years as I believe you may be able to stall this that long. Then what? I dunno.
Republicans are having a bad week. Gregoire sworn in, public and editorial opinion moving against re-vote, no WMD, creationist “warning” ordered removed from textbooks by Georgia courts, Bush approval rating dropping, people find out the Bush white house pays (at least one) “journalist” to covertly shill for their the DoE programs, etc.
What’s more dangerous than the Dems properly pursuing the appropriate legal strategy is the Republican insistence on telling every bigger lies to the public. It’s all crashing down around them. Just today the Seattle Times exposed another right-wing lie (that the military ballots were sent out late because the KC bulk mail stamp wasn’t used)
Let’s just keep the pressure on. Keep it up Goldy.
Cynical… not that I’m privy to such information, but I don’t believe there is an organized Democratic stall tactic (in fact, sometimes I wonder if there is an organized Democratic Party.)
I’ve talked with several of the Auditor’s offices over the past few days, and they’re all busy trying to respond the GOP discovery requests. And it looks like they’re all responding in similar ways, ie: voter list is part of a separate process than that which produces the ballots counted list.
Rossi will get his day court, and won’t have much evidence to support him.
In fact, with the BIAW devoting a staff of 30 people to digging up dirt, he should probably welcome any delays.
Comment by jcricket “One small week for NeoCons, one GIANT week for HUMANITY”
Yeah Goldy…you’re probably right.
It is hopeless for Rossi.
It’s a complete waste of time to dig up illegitmate voters.
It’s certainly not civil to ask County Auditors to show exactly what processes they followed.
It’s probably best for Rossi to just quit and overlook any and all errors, rationalizing them as ‘just one of those things”.
You are probably right Goldy. It is offensive to public servant to hold them accountable. We should cut them lots of slack. I think I’m starting to see your points Goldy.
Thanks…and good luck.
Cynical – Goldy clear has never said that people shouldn’t be held accountable, and you know it. You’re totally misrepresenting what he said because you don’t like the fact that it looks like your BIAW-funded buddies are losing the argument in court.
Goldy clearly indicated that responding to the requests is taking time (duh) and that the Republicans are getting the same answer from all the auditors. What this means is that all the auditors believe they have fulfilled their legal duties and that based on their understanding of the law, the two particular lists the Republicans are claiming should reconcile, are not required to do so.
Just because you want the two lists to reconcile doesn’t mean the auditors are required by law to reconcile those two particular lists. That’s how legal arguments work. Republicans are clearly still insiting there’s some legal basis for requiring those two particular lists to match, but aren’t finding anyone that agrees with them. I doubt the court will either.
If the Republicans want to argue a more generic point (that there should be a separate list maintained to reconcile against), that’s a different argument.
There’s a very clear difference between holding someone accountable and tarring-and-feathering them because they disagree with your interpretation of the law. Justice isn’t served by automatically believing the BIAW/Republican argument. That’s not how the law works either.
Debunk the information in the link below, if you can. Or let me guess like usual, you will all avoid addressing these issues and ramble on about lying republicans, no proof, can’t prove fraud (don’t have to by the way) Himan error happens all the time not grounds to overturn election (wrong)
Yeah, well http://www.timothygoddard.com/blog is cooking w/ gas tonight!
didn’t the Franklin county auditor ask for the court switch? Is that a Dem stronghold?
*The Shark* writes (apparently on his blog) that “Tim Harris of the BIAW tells me that they have identified 76 felons who voted in King County”
That’s all well and good if true, but did this Tim fella tell Stefan how those voters voted? If they all voted for Rossi are they still an issue?
You are in the drivers seat for 2 years as I believe you may be able to stall this
Cynical, you scare me. I see a guy like you on every liberal blog. Someone who turns the liberal blogger into his or her personal “white whale”.
You need some serious help, Captain Ahab.
He tasks me; he heaps me; I see in him outrageous strength, with an inscrutable malice sinewing it. That inscrutable thing is chiefly what I hate; and be the white whale agent, or be the white whale principal, I will wreak that hate upon him.
John–
My comment about the Dems being able to stall this 2 years has been morphed by you into a “white whale tale”???? DUDE—
I have repeatedly warned people like you John of the serious dangers of mixing BC Bud and Prozac leading to early Alzheimers.
John–you have also proven that mixing BC Bud and Prozac leads to Blogging Paranoia! Thanks for your contribution to advancing modern medicine John!
So the Dems want this to quickly be resolved in the Courts, but they are trying to stall it out and send it to the Legislature..actions and words.
So Dems want the truth to come out but they stall discovery and label it a “fishing expedition”.
NICE GOLDY!
C’mon Cynical. You and your employers have had two months, and have touted smoking gun after smoking gun as proof of fraud, conspiracy, dead voters, felons, signature problems, etc. All of them have been torn to shreds when actually investigated by either the media or people who know what they’re talking about.
It’s a fishing expidition and always has been.
And now you’re saying Dems are stalling discovery. Another lie. Your lies never stop Cynical. But that’s what we expect from the BIAW.
Comment by Josef of Josef-a-k.blogspot.com— 1/13/05 @ 8:22 pm
Thanks for posting the link, I accidentally left it out of my post.
That’s all well and good if true, but did this Tim fella tell Stefan how those voters voted? If they all voted for Rossi are they still an issue?
Comment by G Davis— 1/13/05 @ 8:41 pm
No one knows how they voted, their ballots are mixed in with yours and mine. That is why they will have ot re-vote. No one, not even Goldy, can tell how they voted, which makes the election outcome 100% uncertain. You could go ask each felon to testify to whom they voted, but how do you prove they are telling the truth? If they say they voted for Gregoire, the libs will say that htye are lying and the same will be true if they say the voted for Dino. You won;t know if they are lying or telling the truth. The 300+ provisional ballot screw-up is the real gotcha, you never hear anyone on this site debunk this issue, becuase they know it is a major problem. Enough of on to casue a re-vote. Also the “Enhanced Ballot” issue is a big one, although here they say the ballots weren’t permanetly altered, it is widely reported they have been. Reality is of 55,000 enhanced ballots only 130 need to have been permanetly altered to cause no confidence in the result. So there is a little bit of reality for you libs…..Now start spinning! Fraud does not need to be proven, nor does a conspiracy or even intent. Only thing that needs to be proven is that enough “problems” occured in the election process that it made for an uncertain result. So let’s focus on debating things that actually matter; Felons voting, Provisonal Ballots, Enhanced Ballots, etc.
Dear Cynical. Thanks for the ignorant, insulting semi-rant that is so typical of you. Your posts make me ill but keep them comming. I have a strong stomach.
You can go back now to pursuing Goldy, your “white whale”, and cheerleading for the BIAW and their sock-puppet Dino Rossi who will get their butts whomped in court over their smoke and mirrors “evidence”.
BTW – anyone who has watched Law and Order knows that, at lesat in criminal cases, if the prosection doesn’t have enough evidence to sustain an indictment/charge, they’re not allowed unlimited to conduct an unlimited fishing expidition trolling for evidence.
Whether they’re right or not, the Democrats are arguing that the Republicans do not have the right to go an unlimited fishing expidition through the files of all criminals trolling for evidence of illegal voters.
BTW – anyone who has watched Law and Order knows that, at least in criminal cases, if the prosecution doesn’t have enough evidence to sustain an indictment/charge, they’re not allowed to conduct what amounts to an unlimited fishing expedition while trolling for evidence. Whether they’re right or not, the Democrats are arguing that the Republicans inability to produce valid evidence of illegal voters at this point means they do not have the right to go an unlimited fishing expedition through the files of all criminals trolling for evidence of illegal voters. Since the Republicans don’t have the evidence they need and appear to be wrong (or have fabricated) at least 2/3 of the evidence of felons voting in Pierce county, the court shouldn’t support them in their attempt to drum up/fake some more evidence. This is a standard legal argument that is used by every lawyer in a court case. Republicans used essentially the same argument in Ohio – Since the Democrats are only alleging irregularities, they shouldn’t be allowed to conduct an unlimited search. The courts agreed.
Besides, the reason WA state doesn’t use felon “purge” lists is that they are notoriously unreliable. In Florida the “felon” purge list had more than 2,000 people (and by some estimates 8,000) on it that either weren’t felons or had their voting rights restored. That’s far greater than the margin of votes Bush won the election by. Where was the Republican call for a re-vote in 2000? Absent.
Florida was ultimately forced to scrap the felon “purge” list because of these problems. However, GOP officials fought tooth and nail to continue to use the list, despite knowing of the problems. GOP officials also deliberately withheld evidence from the legislature and media about how the list was compiled. Where were the Republicans complaining about the wrongful violation of up to 8,000 people’s civil rights? Absent.
In fact, the whole concept of felons not being allowed to vote after they get out of jail was by design of the ruses Southern states came up with to disenfranchise black people after the Civil War.
The lie is that the GOP is interested in election controls to prevent fraud. The truth is that when the GOP is in charge, they purposefully design election controls and systems that disenfranchise minorities, especially in lower-income counties.
The lie is that the GOP is interested in preventing fraud and/or counting every valid vote. The truth is that the GOP will gladly disenfranchise minorities when it suits their needs.
Comment by jcricket— 1/14/05 @ 10:53 am
So I take from your Rant that you don’t think Felons voting is a problem and you are okay with it? And you clearly want to limit the information made available to investigate such actions. Why would that be? Oh that’s right because Greoire won. Who cares how or why, only thing that matters is she won. Also, to say that the law preventing felons from voting is a Republican trick to disenfranchise minorities is a joke. Using your thought process it is wrong to penalize a person for committing a crime (a felony in this case)? One of the penalities for committing a felony is going to prison. Is that a Republican trick to lock up minorities? Laws are meant to be color blind. It is not only minorities that can’t vote if they commit a felony, it’s all people, regardless of race. Your incinuation is that minorities are just a bunch of criminals, that the republicans know if they prevent felons from voting that in reality they will prevent a bunch of minorities from voting. I guess then you also believ e all forms of penalty are just an attempt by R’s to keep the minoritites down. I have an idea……If you don’t want to go to prison don’t commit a crime, if you don’t want to loose your right to carry a gun don’t commit a crime. If you don’t want to become the love toy of a cell block of criminals don’t commit a crime and if you don’t want to loose your right to vote don’t commit a crime. Seems pretty simple to me. Everyone has the ability to make decisions in life and with each decsion comes consequences. In this case the consequence is loosing your right to vote.
“If you don’t want to become the love toy of a cell block of criminals don’t commit a crime”
If I understand you, you’re saying that prison-rape is an acceptable punishment for crime? That’s not how the justice system works. And while I have no excess of “love” for criminals, the punishments they should suffer are only the ones imposed by the jury; they should not be subject to the vigilantism and crime within the prison system.
“If you don’t want to loose (sic) your right to vote don’t commit a crime.”
You should read up on a law and history before you throw accusations around. First, felons who have completed their sentence are not denied the right to vote in most states. A few states even allow felons to vote while incarcerated (that’s a separate issue). The states that still automatically deny non-incarcerated felons the right to vote tend to be Southern states. And while felon disenfranchisement has been around a long time, the current laws in those states were designed or enhanced as a way to discriminate against minorities, not out of some universal notion of punishing felons. “Some states, such as Alabama and Georgia, altered their laws over time in order to target African Americans and reduce their voting strength. Felon disfranchisement laws, especially in the South, did become part of the fabric of racial discrimination and exclusion.” (Andrew Keyssar, author of Right to Vote). The “powerful elite” have a long history of attempting to use “artificial” voting restrictions as a way to prevent universal suffrage (Like deliberately scheduling registration day on Yom Kippur to prevent Jews from having the chance to participate).
More importantly, felons are not denied the right to vote in WA State once they have completed their sentence and paid any legally-related financial obligations. Depending on the circumstances they are either automatically supposed to have their voting rights restored or merely have to jump through some bureaucratic hoops to restore their right to vote. See http://www.aclu-wa.org/ISSUES/......vote.html for more details.
So based on WA State law and how the DOC operates, I’m sure you can understand how many ex-felons who should not be denied the right to vote (based on WA State law) would end up on a “felon” list that the BIAW might incorrectly use to attempt to smear those voters as “illegal”. Not to mention all the people the BIAW tarred as felons that aren’t even felons (have similar names). Same problems as the felon “purge” lists used in Florida.
If you want to live somewhere where felons are automatically denied the right, please leave WA State and move somewhere less democratic. Like Florida.
Comment by jcricket— 1/14/05 @ 1:45 pm
You use a lot of words but don’t really say much. All your chatter about what other states laws are is irrelevant. Let’s focus on WA state law. I understand the ability to get your voting rights restored and I have no problem with that occurring. My issue is with felons that don’t have those rights restored voting. If you don’t like the law in WA State, which says a felon can’t vote (unless they go through the process to reestablish those rights) I won’t tell you to move out of state, I’ll suggest you work to change the law. Let me be clear….I have no issue with anyone voting that is legally able to do so. I also have no issue with felons getting their rights restored. I do have a problem with a felon (or anyone else for that matter) voting that does not have the right to vote, as I think you should. Making this an issue of race and discrimination against minorities is ridiculous.
As far as the prison rape analogy, lighten up. It was used to prove a point. I did not suggest it to be “proper punishment’ for a crime but the reality is it happens. And this reality could be a deterrent to someone committing a crime. So do you disagree that if you don’t want to be in that situation, not going to prison would drastically improve your odds of not having that occur?
Could you address the provisional ballot fiasco and how you explain that away?
Maybe Al will help Chrissy with hers…
Special Report
Touring the Al Gore Presidential Library and Museum
By Leonard Albin
Published 1/13/2005 12:08:26 AM
Almost obscured by the climbing pink orchids and dense sub-tropical foliage in Boca Raton, Florida, a one-story, somber post-modern building of concrete and glass rises from the landscape. Though locals just refer to it affectionately as “that ugly damn place,” the newly completed Al Gore Presidential Library and Museum is an important cultural site that should be part of everyone’s Florida vacation — even during the off-season. Just off I-95 in Palm Beach County, and convenient to the Pompano Beach Motel 6, this new historical and educational landmark is simply as magical as Disneyworld. Much more than a civic building, the Al Gore Library is a testament to one Tennessee man’s heroic stand against adversity, who dared challenge the status quo with courage, resolve, and above all, a team of ferocious lawyers.
As my wife and I entered the soaring 20-foot-high sun-filled atrium and lobby, one nagging thought did keep coming to mind: Al Gore was never President. That much, of course, is true. However, the Al Gore Library’s founding charter (signed by 162 nations) clearly states that it should be the popular vote, not the Electoral College, which elects presidents. Since this conflicts with certain language in The United States Constitution, the Library is not recognized as an official landmark by the Federal government and no public money was used in its construction. Instead, the Library was funded in large part by a generous grant from a mysterious “Warren,” and has also received millions of dollars in contributions from donors who either believe that Al Gore really is president, or really was elected president, or was president for a month until the Supreme Court threw him out of office — and from a much larger group of people who realize that Gore was not elected president but should have been, although he probably was elected after all, if all the votes were actually counted.
Soon, we were greeted by our docent, a retired high school shop teacher originally from Kew Gardens, Queens. “We got over ten thousand books here,” he said, as he started the tour. Yet it wasn’t books that first piqued our interest, but the question of whether it was appropriate to charge $15 for adults (and $7.50 for children under 12) for admission to a presidential library that had no president. But our docent wasn’t bothered by that. “Al Gore won the popular vote,” he said. “And he did seem to be president there for a while, at least on a couple of networks.”
That philosophical matter solved, we turned our attention to the main feature of the airy lobby: a mural that stretched across the entire back wall. Here, enlarged to about 1,000 times actual size, was a print of a Mapquest map of Massachusetts Avenue in Washington D.C. — the street where Al Gore spent much of his life. First, we saw the blue “X” marking his boyhood home at the posh Fairfax Hotel in the 2000 block, back when Al’s Dad was a United States Senator. Then, we noticed another blue “X” marking the young Albert’s prep school, the swank St. Alban’s School, near the 3700 block. Nearby, there was another blue “X” at 3450 Massachusetts Avenue — the former Naval Observatory that serves as the Vice President’s official residence. Towards the eastern end of the Avenue, there was another blue “X” signifying Al Gore’s 16 years’ employment as a Congressman and Senator at the United States Capitol, conveniently located just two blocks from Massachusetts Avenue. (The huge Mapquest map was generated on a NASA Supercomputer and superprinter, by clicking repeatedly on maximum Zoom In.)
There was no blue “X” at the White House, of course, since there was no Gore presidency. Nevertheless, the Al Gore Library and Museum’s curators have carefully considered what a Gore presidency would have been like, if he had actually won. As a result, the place proudly displays several fascinating exhibits portraying the projected great moments and achievements of a Gore Administration, as if they had already happened.
To combat global warming, there was Gore’s ambitious National Central Air Conditioning, mandating that cool air be pumped into every building with four walls and a roof in America retrofitted with the proper ducts — at no charge. This Act is commemorated at the Library and Museum with an original Jimmy Carter oil painting depicting the sun, with a red circle around it and a red slash through it. For consumer safety, there was the Mandatory Airbags for Bicycles Act, and in education, the No School Lunch Left Behind program, designed to help public school children learn the basic skills and fundamentals necessary for finishing Lunch. Yet the Gore Administration’s finest achievement would have been The Beverly Hills Peace Accords — a unilateral “statement of purpose” drafted by major film stars, directors, and producers calling on all the Nations of the World, large or small, or rich or poor, to stop fighting. As the Accords’ Article I eloquently puts it: “Dude, can’t we all just get along?” Yes, these are words to live by. The Accords exhibit was aptly dignified and austere, too: an original Jimmy Carter oil painting of George W. Bush, with a red circle around it and a red slash through it.
After we spent fifteen minutes marveling at these exhibits, and a half-hour enjoying Kosher hamburgers at the adjacent Joe Lieberman Delicatessen & Lounge, our docent led us down the hall and asked us to give our serious and undivided attention to the Library and Museum’s principal attraction.
“Come here,” he said, beckoning with a finger. “You gotta see this.”
Inside a special, large acoustically-dampened room, seven cheerful uniformed Library employees were sitting at a long, low folding table, piled high with papers and cards. Behind them, a blackboard was covered with numbers and check marks and unfamiliar names like “Volusia” and “Osceola,” and now and then somebody would yell out a number — like “62” or “73.” For a moment, we were drawn in by everyone’s visible enthusiasm, and we almost called out, “Bingo!” But then we realized what this room was for. This was The Vote Counting Room. They were counting the Florida ballots from the 2000 Presidential Election again. Nearby, supervising the tally, was an Ernst & Young senior accountant and two heavily armed Florida State Troopers, who gathered the ballots each day at closing time and deposited them overnight in the largest, most secure vault in Palm Beach County — the one at the Limbaugh estate.
“Who’s winning?” I finally asked.
Our docent grinned and said, “It’s still too close to call.”
The Al Gore Presidential Library and Museum, located near N. Federal Highway in Boca Raton, Florida, is open daily (except holidays) from 5 to 4, in observance of the Supreme Court decision that gave George W. Bush the presidency.
Leonard Albin is a writer in San Francisco.