Gov. Christine Gregoire released her all-cuts budget today, and in closing a $4.6 billion shortfall without offending beverage companies and editorial boards, it surely makes for a meaner, poorer, less healthy and less well educated state. It also shows up all of us—the governor, the legislature, the Seattle Times editorial board, the business community and voters—as a bunch of big, fat hypocrites when it comes to education.
The governor proposes to continue suspension of the class-size reduction initiative, I-728, to save $860 million. The same is true for I-732, which mandates annual raises for teachers, pegged to inflation. That saves another $253 million.
The K-12 cuts don’t stop there. Gregoire’s budget saves: $216 million by eliminating funding to reduce class sizes in kindergarten through forth grade; $99.5 million by suspending bonuses to teachers who go through national teacher certification; and $56 million by suspending incremental step increases for teachers.
To put that in perspective, that’s nearly $1.5 billion in K-12 education cuts, or roughly $740 a year for every public school student in the state. You know, imagine what your typical elementary school might do with an extra quarter of a million dollars a year. Now imagine everything your kid’s school can’t do, because it doesn’t get this money.
Oh, politicians and editorial boards and corporate executives talk a good talk about education—incoming House Minority Leader John Boehner even cries a good cry about it. But without the willingness to actually fund education reforms, it’s all talk, and nothing else.
I mean, if it’s a choice between raising taxes and fucking over school children, well, the message is clear. Fuck the kids. And God Bless America.
boo hoo… Toughen the fuck up the next century is only gonna get worse
I get the feeling bakesales and fundraisers aren’t going too far to cover the $1.5 billion.
What a great opportunity this is to right-size government. Do we really need nearly 1700 Dept of Ecology Employees, of which nearly 700 have Total Compensation of $99,000/yr. or more?
This is her starting point.
She still has her sacred cow in the Dept of Ecology.
She failed to make Health Care contributions equivalent to the private sector.
That would make a huge difference.
I didn’t see anything about education for Illegal Aliens. Why are we still paying for ESL?
I hope Evergreen Freedom Foundation goes thru this proposal by Gregoire and points out the Sacred Cows she has protected so the public can help provide input on what is more important…a massive Dept of Ecology that helps hamstring business and property owners..or say, smaller class sizes??
Is this the start of our race to the bottom?
Does it say somewhere what was NOT cut, or cut the least?
How will this effect society? I see the mood being:”Hunker down, spend as little as possible, take no risks, don’t make waves, protect what you got cause you aint getting any more, the good times are over.”
It’s going to be a brutal and decades long recession.
this is only round one :D of budget cuts.
nothing like Karma punishing Washington state liberals, progressives, and democrats.
Cyn, will you be satisfied when everyone is WA is working for the wages and benefits equal to Jack in the Box and Walmart?
Or will you then complain that we are overpaid compared to India and Burma?
Maybe you are just bitter about anyone who works but makes more than you. ( Investors don’t count. They don’t work. )
Blue John–
The race to the bottom started when Gregoire signed unsustainable Budgets the past 4 years.
I thought Progressives believed in sustainability?
Massive spending increases in the face of a recession is hardly sustainable.
Counting on Obama to give us another $3 BILLION handout like the last Budget…how is adding to the National Debt sustainable?
Progressives love that word…sustainability.
Sadly they don’t know what it means!
How are Federal Government handouts sustainable??
Where does the money really come from??
THE PRIVATE SECTOR that you folks love to torment with excessive taxes and regulations.
Workers Comp 2011==12% Increase
Unemployment 2011===Another 41%+ increase.
Sustainable??
My a$$!!
The gravy train is empty.
Like your lawnmower, turn back the carburator until the motor is coughing & spitting & ready to quit…then give it just a smidgeopn more gas.
Look, it’s time to look first at the CONSTITUTIONAL MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR GOVERNMENT. First things the Constitution requires. Then allocate the rest according to publicly debated priorities. That should have been done loooong ago.
Instead, Gregoire pulls a few things that hurt folks the most out of the Bureaucratic Tub of Goo. The process is important.
No Sacred Cows!
snap!
Blue John–When did I ever say I’d be satisfied when everyone is WA is working for the wages and benefits equal to Jack in the Box and Walmart?
State and Federal Employees hardly come close to that…especially when you add in all the benefits, pension and paid time-off. Unions only want to discuss salaries. But it’s ALL the benefits, including paid time-off that constitute another 52% added to their salary. There is also overhead connected with each state employee.
I think the solution is less benefits, more hours actually worked and fewer State Employees. Leave the salary alone at the start. See what can be done rather than a vicious random attack like Gregoire just launched. the process is very important.
Public input is very important.
@5;
Wow, you really must be really upset at the women in your family to use ‘female’ as an insult. What happened to your family values?
Fixed it for ‘ya Goldy.
Fuck Goldy’s obsession with bloated unions that use kids as pawns while aspiring to mediocrity. And God Bless America for having the courage to come through the end with an educational system that actually might work.
It appears that Andrew Garber and/or his editors at the SeaTimes are products of the new emphasisNOT! on elementary education.
(Emphasis added)
@10 never had any and am gay so i dont like females
besides spending has to drop to 2006 levels. 2006!!! You can see the rape gangs forming on the horizon as we speak. Children are already being roasted for food!
Off topic asshole. That comment ought to be deleted.
We’re talking about education here. MISTER-Cyncical-ASS-Klown doesn’t know (or care) ’cause he doesn’t LIVE in Washington State, that the State Constitution MANDATES the Legislature…as the Legislature’s PRIMARY PURPOSE to ensure the funding of education.
There are too many reasons why this is important (and MISTER-Cyncical-ASS-Klown could care less about any of them)…and the fucking Legislature should DO IT’S JOB and create adequate funding for K-12 education.
@8–
Opium addicts aka OPM–addicted to Other People’s Money!
They go banana’s when their drug of choice (other people’s money) dries up.
Goldy is going thru a difficult withdrawal.
The messiah bailed out Washington State last year with $3 BILLION!! Not gonna happen this year or ever again.
Why didn’t Gregoire do this cutting last year knowing the government bailout wasn’t sustainable?
Why did she ever agree to unsustainable Budgets the past 2 Budgets??
No one seems to care.
This TRAINWRECK did not just happen.
It was self-inflicted.
Gregoire created a huge puss-filled sore on her pinky and pretended it didn’t exist. Now she is amputating her whole arm! But it’s not her fault she ignored the obvious and gave increases in wages & benefits and hired 1700 more people AFTER the Hiring Freeze.
Nope…nothing is her fault.
She was just standing there and out of the sky, all of this suddenly fell on her without warning…NOT!
14. Rujax! spews:
WTF! How in the world is suggesting other areas to cut “off-topic”?? What a complete nimrod you are Rujax.
Right HERE ashole!!!!
Shithead.
Wating for Cynical to chime in about how the budget’s not being cut enough in 1,2, and # 3!!!!
He’s ignoring the part about how 60% of the budget can’t be cut because it’s either federal dollars recieved for specific programs, or federal mandates (thank you, Mr. Bush!). So with the remaining 40%, we could lay off EVERY state employee, close every prison, shut down the state higher educational system, etc., and still not have enough to bridge the gap.
All because Cynical and his colleagues aren’t responsible enough to admit that you can’t just cut off revenue sources (taxes), and somehow expect to make up the difference through elimination of “fraud and inefficiency”.
If Cynical was captain of a crew team, he would cut seven rowers from the team, and then complain that the only rower left in the boat wasn’t rowing fast enough. After all, if you cut out all the “dead weight”, he should be able to row faster, right?????
Rujax is losing his mind. The NW Division of Lunatic Moonbats has constantly criticized Conservatives for not suggesting alternatives.
I said-
How in the world is this off-topic?
You can disagree with me…but “off-topic”.
Grow up Rujax.
Read the fucking post.
READ THE COMMENT POLICY.
Quit being a DICK.
17. Rujax! spews:
9. Mr. Cynical spews:
Blue John–When did I ever say I’d be satisfied when everyone is WA is working for the wages and benefits equal to Jack in the Box and Walmart?
WTF?
How do you make the leap from my comment to being like Jack in the Box or Walmart???
It’s a stretch that does not reach…again.
The Governor delayed taking appropriate action causing a manageable problem to become a TRAINWRECK!
Good thing she has moron’s like Rujax on her side screaming & ranting nonsensical retorts and allegations…NOT!
http://www.leg.wa.gov/LAWSANDA.....ution.aspx
But the funding source from timber sales doesn’t work. They never imagined we could cut down trees faster then we could grow them.
Rujax–
WTF!
The post is about cutting costs.
I would contend if some of the steps I proposed were done, Gregoire wouldn’t have to cut education as much.
Man are you THICK!
Bad Try Rujax==No Sale.
All you would propose is to raise taxes & fees, right? No cost cutting.
Speaking of closing prisons, how about we cut our prison population in half through early release. When an inmate is released we can give them a free ride somewhere in the state to start their new lives.
Somewhere nice…like Mukilteo.
@7 So what are the ONLY things in WA state you would pay for, that are in the WA constitution?
Blue John–
So what is basic education?
Is it high school sports?
Is it video classes?
How many Superintendents must we support?
You are wrong if you believe the current level of education services doesn’t exceed the Constitutional Requirement.
Need to start with the basics…REQUIREMENTS.
Then add on based on priorities of local school boards. Let local communities decide the extra’s they want to fund.
25. Blue John spews:
No, but that is precisely where I would start.
Fund the REQUIREMENTS…what is Mandatory.
Then fight over what is left over based on a Priorities of Government Model Gary Locke developed and seems to have gotten lost by Gregoire.
Shut the fuck up pinhead. You don’t even live here so BUTT OUT.
But cyn’s correct in a way.
Until we change the rules of our economy and Trade laws, and protect OUR economy and make things in America again, instead of sending our jobs, our money and our critical intellectual property overseas, we ARE going to have to keep cutting and downsizing and reducing. Until we protect American jobs, we won’t have any.
We are so fucked. Our education system already lags behind western Europe and Japan. Cutting funding will only make us less competitive. We’ll be turning out kids that can’t spell cat, add 2 and 2, and have the civics understanding of Teabaggers. Maybe that’s why Teabaggers are so thrilled with these educational cuts–the playing field will become a bit more level for them.
@30…
Doesn’t bother the goat-fucker from Montana so why should it bother us?
The goat-fuckers want to kill public education.
The Evergreen (We Hate) Freedom Foundation (funded by Dick’s Drive-Ins, btw) is all about gutting public schools.
Is Goldy really this naive, or is he just pretending he doesn’t understand the political strategy involved in Gregoire threatening to cut education over fat?
boo hoo. like i said toughen the fuck up and take some extra personel time to volunteer and extra in your own community to make up for this then.
@ Rujax do you go to Dick’s then?
@ 3
What a great opportunity this is to right-size government. Do we really need nearly 1700 Dept of Ecology Employees, of which nearly 700 have Total Compensation of $99,000/yr. or more?
Again, the mathematically illiterate thinks he can provide sage budget advice. Let’s see. 1700 * 99K is about $168 million dollars. The budget shortfall is $4.6 billion (with a “b”, not an “m”). Eliminate the entire department of ecology, and you’ve plucked away at a whopping 3.4% of the shortfall.
This is why k-13 education has to be cut given the current tax structure, and why we should never, ever, listen to people like you who make vague claims about “right-sizing” government without ever coming up with an adequate definition of “right-size” to account for the budgetary shortfalls.
People like Cyncal are the reason this country is fucked up. They’re ignorant of their own ignorance.
Cyn, you and I agree on much of that.
I don’t think basic education should pay for sports. But how many football parents will scream if we cut their programs?
I don’t know about video classes, it doesn’t seem like a good use of money.
You said “How many Superintendents must we support?” As few as possible.
Need to start with the basics…REQUIREMENTS. I actually agree with you there.
They need to be able to read well, write well, do math, know science, social studies, civics, how to balance a check book, have some knowledge of history. Know the meta skill of getting education on their own to fill in what they don’t know once they are out of H.S.
Should a HS offer any training in any work skills? Shop? Farming? Food Service? Home Ec? Excel, Word, Powerpoint? Vidography? Programming?
Do we teach critical thinking in schools or do we teach to the test so our schools look good on a spread sheet?
You said “Then add on based on priorities of local school boards. Let local communities decide the extra’s they want to fund. ” So you were in favor of getting rid of the school equalization? Let the poor rural areas have a much more basic education than the richer areas who have ability and will to tax themselves for extra advantages for their kids?
In the The World Is Flat, by Thomas Friedman, he argues that Americans are not just in competition with the people in the next town, they are competing for work against people in the next city, the next state, and every other country in the world. How is cutting our education budget going to compete with countries who have the will to pour resources into education?
Or does it matter at all to you? All you care is that anything branded “progressive” fails.
I don’t know what’s more depressing, the cuts or the people doing touchdown dances over them.
I remember all the times that Eyman scoffed at those of us who warned these tax cuts would have a tragic ending. Even then I had no idea it could be this bad.
Conservatives are for this because a poor and uneducated populace will be less able to challenge the existing power structure.
I’m just amazed Goldy claims to be a political wonk, and runs a political blog, but doesn’t recognize Machiavellian political strategy at work.
This thread is pornographic.
Remember this:
EACH KID ONLY GOES THROUGH KINDERGARDEN ONCE!
SCREW UP THEIR EDUCATION THEN AND YOU SCREW UP THEIR ABILITY TO EARN AS ADULTS!
The who is gonna pay the taxes?
39
Indeed. Uneducated, incurious people with no prospects for improvement are far more likely to provide the human fodder necessary to feed corporate needs without complaint. Suck ’em in, chew ’em up, shit ’em out, then grab the next guy. Republicans need sheeple. So, cutting education works just fine for them.
Education for Illegal Aliens would be EIA. ESL is english as a second language and helps kids learn english. So let me get this straight, you want everyone to speak english, but you don’t want to pay people to teach them english. Sounds like a typical rightie, with an unworkable solution for everything, to me.
Where’d you get the idea that only Illegals are helped by ESL programs?
And these new cuts are on top of the billions already cut over the last years. These cuts WILL harm our students and our state — just ask the educators themselves.
Wait! cyn doesn’t live in Washington State?
I don’t think we’re getting our money’s worth out of the WA education system. The teachers are more interested in salary and bennies than producing a good product, and the parents are fucking dolts! No wonder the kids are dumber than ever!
TACOMIC FLASHBACK http://comics.feedtacoma.com/t.....-1107-say/
@45: No, Klynical’s a goatfucker from Montana.
The trolls on this blog are constantly telling us to ‘mail a check’ in to the government if we think that the government needs more money.
My response to the trolls is to stop using government services if you think that the government is too big. Stop using public roads, don’t call the fire department if your house is on fire, if someone breaks into your home don’t call the cops, don’t send your kids to public schools, don’t hire or work with people that went to public schools or universities, don’t ask for goods or services from people who went to public schools or universities, don’t use tap water, don’t use electricity, don’t use the national parks, don’t buy products that were transported via the highway system… This list could go on and on, but you get the point. If all the R’s that are claiming government is too big stopped using these services, then I am sure that we could find a way to reduce spending in their absence.
Or, if you think that these things are necessary, stop being a part of the problem and try to help us figure out a way to pay for them.
#46. You don’t have a kid in my school. They work hard for the kids and teaching them. I’m amazed at what they do.
I bet you live in the country or the depressed suburbs.
#49. Great post!
The Crypt Keeper is on KOMO 4 right now!
@45
Nope! Cyn’s a wealthy businessman who retired to a hobby ranch outside of Bozeman MT and comes on here to call people like me elitists. I had a day off today and spent it helping frame in a room, run electrical wiring, and hang dry wall, and I’m the elitist.
Yep, no more driving!
@ Masaba
Well perhaps if they were given the option of paying into those systems to begin with they wouldn’t, but since they have to unwillingly pay they have every right to use it. But you really have no excuse why you cant volunteer time and money to make your community better in light of theses cuts.
hey michael nice to see you still come on line to justify your existance. you know if you killed yourself then your carbon foot print would decrease.
This comment has deleted by Julian Assange.
“Now is not the time to talk about raising taxes”
@49,
Maybe if we stopped getting involved in these crazy foreign quagmires we would all have something better to discuss. It’s time to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan and let Israel take care of itself. It’s time to let the neighborhood take care of North Korea – 60 years of involvement is too much!!
As for sending the government checks, all the Warren Buffets and Bill Gates of the world who complain about taxes being too low should definitely send the government a check or two. We already pay for fire, police, etc. with the taxes we pay now, but if you wanna send extra, I’m sure they’ll be happy to cash your checks.
When income taxes were being hyped 100 years ago, people like Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson were saying that the tax would only apply to the wealth and it would be no more than 3%. Well, within 30 year, everybody was paying and the rates were a helluva lot higher. Here’s the simple truth: it’s impossible to give government enough money because somebody in government will always come up with a way to spend our money on something that’s needed desperately.
Bernanke is going to buy $600 billion in treasuries so the government can have cash to spend and lend through the banking system. Seems to me that it would be easier if Bernanke would simply mail the 75 million taxpayers a check for $8,000 each. Let the people who’ve paid the taxes decide how to spend any stimulus money from the Fed. Makes sense to me, but then it bypasses the cronies in the banking system, and ol’ Ben can’t have that! No siree! Got to include those friends in the financial world! Heck, they all pledged Sigma Nu back at Yale and Dartmouth together. Can’t scre a frat brother!
What a bunch of arrogant assholes!
Ohhh, if it were only that easy right? The solution is to raise taxes…always….
The bottom line is that it’s a choice about PRIORITIES. The Democrats, who have been running the show in Washington state for years, and control the Gov, Leg, King Co, Snohomish Co, and Seattle have “screwed the pooch” in terms of priorities.
Bleat on about raising taxes……It’s not happening. Time for Democrats to MAN up and make education a priority and make cuts elsewhere, like eliminating whole state departments……
as a product of washington state public schools, i hope they go broke ;-p
@56
Nice to see that you can type a coherent sentence. Told ya that meds and therapy would help.
Quotes from the Governor’s Announcement on Cuts
@62
actually those services were cut from the budget.
Not any more. Used to go there 4-5 times a month.
Corect.
Per him…the goat-fucker sold his Washington properties and is a survivalist in the middle of Montana.
@26
Blue John–
The word basic appears one time in the entire state constitution, here it is:
We do need to make some big changes. A while back you were talking about closing down some ESD offices and that’s probably a good idea. The state is in the process of consolidating a few school districts, which is also something you’ve mentioned in the past. Sports are not schooling and need to be moved out into the community. In Gig Harbor we have a flat water racing kayak club, soccer teams, little league baseball, martial arts leagues, and swimming done all outside of the schools. It’s time to move the remaining sports out of the schools.
But, there’s no requirement for “basic education only” in the state constitution. Even if there were a basic ed. only requirement, you could make a pretty good argument that using media and communication tools like computers, video recorders, cameras and photoshop are part of the base of skills it takes to be a well rounded citizen these days.
So yeah, media stays in, art stays in, music stays in.
the
Does your mommy know you’re using computer?
@60, ya mean like this?
http://www.governor.wa.gov/new.....newsType=1
@63
Nice to see that the governor is willing to act in an immoral fashion!
Yes, well, good thing we had that super productive school levy debate.
Gah. Our superintendent announced tonight that the cuts could mean 40-45 teaching jobs. http://bit.ly/g5Cc5W
@Cynical #7:
Section IX, Article I:
45. Blue John spews: “Wait! cyn doesn’t live in Washington State?”
He says he lives in Montana. Then he tells us he has lunch in a Lacy cafe every day. Then he tells us again that he lives in Montana.
“Per him…the goat-fucker sold his Washington properties and is a survivalist in the middle of Montana.”
He told us has properties. Then he tells us he sold them. Then he says he has properties. Then he tells us he sold them. Now he owns them again.
The stupid goatfucker needs a continuity director so he can kreep his fucking lies straight.
Rujax @ 66
Cynny doesn’t have the wits, wiles, or wherewithal to make it as a survivalist. I also suspect he’s scared of the woods, the dark, and large animals. Except for goats. He’s not scared of goats. He couldn’t survive a single afternoon apart from his goat.
@46 yes, teachers are more concerned with pay than “product” …most people don’t see a connection between “pay” and “product” do they? i guess thats why they arn’t capitalists.
@68. Rujax!
school lunch served next year: Rujax brains!!! =D the kids don’t need books or teachers, they need the latest in biologically enhanced foodstuffs: the mind of a true genius
@55
I think you missed the point entirely. You are telling other people to suck it up and send in extra money to help pay for government services (something that they don’t have to do). An equivalent response to someone who bitches about having to pay taxes is exactly what I wrote @49. It is basically each side telling the other to suck eggs.
Of course, I don’t actually believe that either side is right if they are making the above claims. There are certainly many spending cuts we could make, starting with the military industrial complex. However, there is also no reason not to raise revenue by taxing the wealthiest Americans at the same rate they were taxed in the 1990s. These are both efforts at balancing the budget, something the Republicans and Tea Party claim they want. The fact that they are taking neither of the obvious courses of action makes me think that their claims of wanting a balanced budget are just lip service.
@75…
You’re just pathetic.
@75
If teachers are more concerned about ‘pay’ than the product, as you say, then what are we to make of the banking industry and Wall Street?
“like eliminating whole state departments……”
Put your money where your mouth is.
What programs that you benefit from, are you willing to gut and do without?
Shall we get rid of public education for your kid? Get rid of the cops for your neighborhood? Get rid of the regulators on your banks so if it goes under you are wiped out? How about food safety? Are you willing to take Salmonella roulette. Are you willing to live without courts if you get sick from that Salmonella. Get rid of the dept of ecology so the salmon stop running and the hillside above your house sluffs off in your yard.
OMG, these cuts can’t happen!!! They will send the state all the back to …. wait for it … 2008 spending levels.
[DELETED — Off Topic]
81
Why don’t you slip off to a quiet corner and fuck yourself? Tell me the last time this state paid for a discretionary abortion. And, bringing Goldy’s daughter into the mix? As tacky, cheap, and juvenile as it gets. You fucks deserve a special place in hell.
It’s all a plan to privitaze education, as they’ve done with prisons, the military etc.
@82
Pssst, Goldy’s daughter is fair game. Has been ever since Goldy talked about Bristol Palin before she turned 18.
@59 It’s time to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan
—
Some of the biggest war proponents on this board are HA regulars like Rabbit, YLB and GBS. And other than a few individuals like Lee and you, HA has been pretty quiet when it comes to Afghanistan – unlike Iraq several years back. In fact, sometimes you’d never know a war was going on.
@85
I say yes. Let’s end Obama’s wars. Bring the troops home. Bring ALL of them home. Obama has over 700 US military bases covering the earth. Why?
200 of those bases are embassays closing them is not a good idea
@87
I don’t want to have to use my power of IP blocking, but as the comment section moderator, I’d like to respectfully ask you to change your name to something a little more tasteful.
Your cooperation is apprecitated,
– Moderator
ok
@87 and Troll
Psssst, nitwit….No, Goldy’s child is not fair game. Even IF Goldy did comment about BP, can’t you rise above?
Internet word wizard @87.
Have you no class? I suspect you think you’re quite witty? Eh? It’s not funny. Not even a little….If it were my blog I’d ban your IP for good.
actually yes she is because that the way we are heading is everyone is a target and liberals are just as guilty of that as conservatives. In addition to Bristol Palin, Goldy insinuating that dave reichart has brain damage, or that Reagan Dunn is gay is no different.
@79
Funny you mention cops, and education.
Seems to be a favorite “play” when discussing cutting government.
I’d start with all public funded art. Eliminate all funding for illegal immigrants. That includes school, healthcare, and food programs. Cut the dept of Ecology, Forestry, cut all of the commisions like this one
http://www.washingtonasparagus.com/
The progressive fantasy is that anyone who thinks “right wing” wants zero govt. It’s a false assertion. Just fund essential services. Education wouldn’t have to be cut if the spending priorities were such that it was, well, a priority.
Word Wizard @91
You’re communication style is quite interesting. Do your parents know what you’re up to right now?
Yes it’s different, in many ways, but I’m sure you don’t get it. Do you have anything to add that’s productive? Or do you just like to sit alone in your parents house and think your funny insulting a teenage girl?
Just STFU and go away.
fuck the cops and cut their budgets in half, too many are now allied with unions interests over the public interest.
they couldn’t even collectively agree to a pay freeze or reduction to prevent some of their own fellow ‘brothers’ from being fired they showed zero comradery in that case and tried to blame the King county council for buying a park that had already been paid for (even if it was bad optics on the counties part)and then threaten the community with vauge threats that we wont be remotly safe with them gone, so fuck them
@93 hey its not my fault she needs abortion coverage, if you don’t want it talked about your side should of thought twice before making outrageous accusations about other politicians and their families
I get it believe me i do, I just don’t care anymore is the thing
What a disaster. The emergency rooms are not free and that is where people without insurance will end up and it will cost more. People who are disabled will not go away because they are not funded. How is cutting education and public safety helping? It seems as though the cuts were dumped on the most vulnerable. As we have all learned a trickle down economy or the shit runs downhill economy has never ever worked.
@92
Go back and take a look at the state constitution, you might have to change that to kick the illegal kids out of school. Personally, I take a rather low view of most human beings. I figure if a kid’s in school they’re less likely to be getting knocked up, selling drugs, or breaking into my garage and stealing my stuff (and if they’re not in school they’re probably stealing shit, getting high and knocked up). So, keep them in school, unimpregnated, and out of my garage. It’s cheaper in the long run and you get to keep your stuff.
We’re in the process of cutting and combining boards and commissions and some of those are funded by the industries they support, not the general fund.
Last I checked those folks were doing important work and they’re facing cutbacks just like everyone else.
@97
Yep! The governor is calling a cost shift and increase a savings. With Democrats like these who needs Republicans.
Reality: “Gov. Chris Gregoire on Wednesday proposed unprecedented budget cuts that wipe out some state programs to the poor, slash spending on education, cut pay for state workers, close prisons and reduce ferry runs. No corner of the budget appeared left untouched. This after multiple state agencies and commissions are eliminated or merged.”
Anti-Reality Wingnuts: “Liberals only tax and spend and drive up deficits. Only Republicans will ever cut the size of government!”
republicans have nothing to do with her poor budgeting choices no one held a gun to her head.
@ 92. Right Stuff
You didn’t read my post did you?
I ask you what programs that you benefit from, are you willing to cut.
You listed a bunch of programs that don’t help you. You just listed things that don’t effect you or things you hate.
God, you are a weenie.
I really like some public art. I think it enriches our culture and makes us better people. Without out it, we are some sort of communist bleak country. However, I’m willing to cut it back or even out, if the sacrifice is shared, that you are gutting something you value also.
I never get that feeling of shared sacrifice from conservatives. You just want things you don’t like cut, but nothing you do like. Sacrifices have to be done by other people, but not you. Never you.
As an actual female, I wish some of you would stop acting like poorly socialized 12 year olds and stick to the topic at hand.
Anti-tax rhetoric has led to a lot of poor decisions on the part of voters, locally and nationally. There are three options in light of a deficit: more deficit spending, budget cuts, or more revenue. Apparently, a general philosophical objection to taxes is more important than government actually being able to provide core services.
Falling sales tax revenue in combination with the results of the last election (success of 1107 and failure of 1098) means that yes, there is in fact a gun to Gregoire’s head at this point to make cuts, somewhere. Or in this case, everywhere.
Puddy’s response to the moonbat!s like masaba is to start paying higher taxes if he thinks the government needs to recklessly spend more.
My response to Puddy is to take your meds and STFU.
Goldy wrote:
I mean, if it’s a choice between raising taxes and fucking over school children, well, the message is clear. Fuck the kids. And God Bless America.
Well said, Goldy. The irony is so thick, yet the trolls who comment here just don’t get it.
from the fingers of rujax…
Back atcha fool!
goldy, if you are worried about the children, then why dont you write the state a check?
I mean cmon dude, put up or shut up.
@95 “your side should of thought twice”
@93 heh- Welcome to the left, Right Stuff. Just kidding. You’re a good man. I believe you’re wrong at times, but aren’t we all?
@102 “God, you are a weenie.”
Perhaps from your viewpoint. But Right Stuff has repeatedly stood up against excesses of the right, including in this very thread. He was the only troll to denounce the infamous curb-stomp of the woman protester in Kentucky. He required no prodding from the left. From my viewpoint, those are not the acts of a “weenie”. I believe Right Stuff is a person with whom you can engage in meaningful conversation. The others? Nah. They fuck goats.
“Fuck the kids.”
That’s the wrong thing to say to some of these creeps.
http://www.republicanoffenders.com/Pedophiles.html
They’ll take it literally.
ape shall not kill ape
@Tacomamama
no one made her increase spending when she won office, she chose to do that and the democrats in the state senate enabled her. she didnt have to increase spending but chose to and now the golden goose is dead so every one is suffering.
now that his daughter can’t get free abortions anymore because of democrats not creating a sustaiable budget he is pissed
Stupid Solution Steve imagine your face on a label like this selling your namesake Stupid Solution.
Then we all learned the Morons.Org woman tried to hit Rand Paul twice with her sign while sitting in his suburban. That’s when Puddy retracted his comment!
Somehow Stupid Solution Steve Skipped Something!
@114
its too bad that woman didn’t get seriously injured.
Sorry dude. Puddy fully disagrees with you. Remember Puddy demonstrated much to Roger Rabbit’s chagrin the numbers were very close to correct on the KC Sheriff budget. We all know how rujax doesn’t check anything without agreeing with Roger and he fell into Roger’s stupidity.
Right Stuff @ 93
Thanks, man. That counts.
Stupid Solution Steve,
Another of your DUMBOCRAPTIC city heroes who screws a city acts.
@104–
Read the 10-year Budget History and other financial info here:
http://fiscal.wa.gov/expenditures.aspx
Only among Leftists is an increase in spending a cut!
I’m laughing at you desperate folks pretending once again to be the aggrieved party. Like you were somehow victims when in charge of the Governor’s Mansion for almost 30 years.
Gimmee a break!
zippy,
No one is stopping you from paying ADDITIONAL taxes! No one is stopping Goldy from paying additional taxes. No one is stopping any liberal from paying additional taxes?
So why you crying?
because they want someone else to do it for them.
Puddy,
I am deeply wounded that I was not included among those identified in your new moniker as “fools.” Kudos to those who are included.
Dang, I didn’t make the fool list either!
Michael,
I feel your pain. I guess we’d better ramp up the reason.
STFU, Puddy, and take your damned meds.
You’re full of some delusional shit, as usual. But this begs the question, tough guy, what line does a woman need to cross with you before you feel justified curb-stomping her as she’s defenseless on the ground, being held down by another man? Would, say, littering suffice as cause?
@117 “That counts.”
That’s how I see it too. Right Stuff has a measure of the right stuff. Unlike Puddy, who apparently gets his kicks out of watching a man curb-stomp a defenseless woman as she’s pinned to the ground by another man.
Anybody who thinks beating a defenseless woman is justified isn’t a real man.
Yeah, I’m talking about you, Puddy. How about you and the KLOWN try taking me on instead of beating up on some defenseless woman?
@115 “its too bad that woman didn’t get seriously injured”
Oh, and bring the punk @115 with you.
“I guess we’d better ramp up the reason”
Just watch. I know how to ramp it up, PL.
isnt that cute faggy pretnetious liberals pretending they an fight and going all internet tough guy. besides im gay i could just make it a hate crime and ruin your life :D
[DELETED — Off Topic]
[DELETED — Off Topic]
Teachers in private schools do not get the massive benefit and pension plans the guvment schools get.
And kids get a better education!
Whats wrong with our public school system?
SEIU! Period!
Oh poor poor Stupid Solution Steve…
The truth appears and he tells Puddy to do some drugs.
Psychedelics?
Psychotropics?
Psychiatrics?
Is it the side effect you want Puddy to experience? What do you use in your namesake Stupid Solution Steve? Is it something wwwwoooonderful???
Where did Puddy beat up any woman Stupid Solution Steve? Oh you mean your silly ASS on HA? You now claiming to be some vengeful woman?
Puddy produced the tape and pictures displaying her actions. She attacked, she received the beatdown. That’s why 99.999% of liberal kook-aid sites dropped it. Only fools like you on HA continue to keep “her” actions alive and live by chance!
@3 – It’s amazing to me how the fucking conservatives are all about making government employees pay the private sector equivalent in health care costs but are quiet as church mice when it comes to raising public sector salaries to private sector levels.
Odd, that. Or, maybe not.
Jeebus – I miss the good ol’ days when conservatives used to bleat about bloated government PROGRAMS. Now it’s pretty hard to continue to pretend that such a thing exists (except in the military, where it’s still fucking blatant, but conservatives love any government agency that involves killing people, so they don’t complain about THAT). So, they’ve switched the script and now bleat about bloated government SALARIES. That’s no more true, but they’re not giving that one up. Of course, they get this shit from the media. Just the other day there was a headline on Yahoo about 10 government jobs that paid over $100k. If you actually bothered to look at the list, there were 3. They were: doctor, pharmacist and auditor–with several years of experience. But if you only looked at the headline, it sure sounded like there was plenty of opportunity to make buckets o’ money as a gubmit worker. I later saw comments on the Times that referred to that article to make that exact argument.
Moral? Conservatives are stupid. And they vote.
@ 133 – Id
Yep, they’re paid about $12-$15 an hour. Often with NO medical or dental benefits, and no pension plan at all. Are you really saying that you would want such low paid people teaching kids how to read, research and learn higher mathematics? How are you going to attract the best, most capable people to the job if you treat them like Mexican farmworkers? You think anyone would want the job at that rate of pay?
THAT DOESN’T EVEN PAY THE RENT ON A ONE-BEDROOM APARTMENT IN KING COUNTY.
Jesus H Christ you’re a stupid motherfucker.
This is a flat-out lie. Such is the problem with the so-called “conservative” (fascist) way of thinking. Sell the kids to the highest bidder! The MARKET will solve the problem. You fucking liars. EVERY time, every single time such an idea has been put into practice in this country, the “schools” turn out to be scams. Flim-flam operations, Cons, whatever you want to call it. The reality is, you don’t want the kids to be educated at all. I am VERY curious as to why you oppose education, because in the end this is what you are really about.
Such operations hire practically any schmuck off the street, and regularly pad their books to extract the maximum cash flow out of the State and local Governments. They universally inflate their graduation rates, and the grades they hand out to the Students. It becomes just another commercial product.
In every single case this has been the situation.
Ah, the crux of the matter. You and the other fascists in here, are really just totalitarian, police state jackboot corporatist thug types. No better than Communists or Nazis or whatever you want to call yourselves in this brief moment of your history. Blame the Unions, when Union workers are the ONLY wage-slaves in the country whose wages have kept abreast of inflation. Everyone else, non-union workers, have been totally fucked over by it. They are the only people who are still able to afford to live that “American Dream” you fuckstains are always talking about. Owning a house, buying a new car a few times during a lifetime, maybe even taking a vacation in Europe or someplace interesting.
You are all liars, thieves, and con artists. You are enemies of the American rights to due process, to petition for redress, and personal Liberty.
You are enemies of the United States.
You stand for everything we spent most of the last century fighting against in the propaganda, cold and hot wars over the last 70 years.
Go to China assholes, your paradise is there. You’ve already sold them our entire industrial infrastructure. They’ll feed you, and make you work hard for that little 2 room flat in the 9000 block citizen. You will comply. You will submit.
And if you try to unionize, if you dare to complain about the conditions at your workplace, or your boss raping your children, or forcing his way onto your apartment to inspect your living situation as per company policy, they’ll give you a free bullet, or put you on a list. Just like they did in Nazi Germany, Austria, Italy, Poland, Spain, El Salvador, Argentina, Chile, North Korea and the Soviet Union, and in the United States in the first 30 years of the last century.
THAT is what you are supporting with your rhetoric. All those other failed nations that opposed Unions, and opposed the workers right to improve their own lot in life. You would leave the “American Dream” to the thugs, the murderers, the thieves and the professional con artists. It is always the same. Always the same rhetoric, always the same type of people.
Just like what is happening now, with this modern “conservatism”. THAT, is the real reason you “conservatives” oppose education. That is your status quo, you WANT anarchy. You WANT a totalitarian police state. You want the same things all the thugs, murderers, thieves and con artists in history have wanted throughout the centuries. No rule of law, and no government to oppose your criminality.
Oh, and Cynical? I will no longer address you, nor will I engage you in conversation except to tell you to fuck off. You have no business being in here if you don’t even live in this State. You do not have a dog in this hunt. Go piss down someone else’s back you fucking asshole.
@130 You can fuck off, you insignificant bitch. The shift key is on the lower left of the keyboard. Learn to use it. Maybe then I’ll give you a little more of the attention you crave.
@135 As for you and your pathetic self, that video didn’t show shit. You try to justify a man curb-stomping a defenseless woman who was pinned to the ground by another man. One can’t get much more pathetic than that. But given time, I’m sure that you will.
Men taking down a lone woman. Curb-stomping her as she’s pinned to the ground. Lame-ass attempts to justify it. You’re fucking pathetic, Puddy.
The Lefty’s have a common thread..they all want to take what other’s have earned and use others money to pay for their sh*t.
That’s called GREEDY BASTARDS!!
deathfrogg–
Oh, and Cynical? I will no longer address you, nor will I engage you in conversation except to tell you to fuck off. You have no business being in here if you don’t even live in this State. You do not have a dog in this hunt. Go piss down someone else’s back you fucking asshole.
@ 141
Ah, you’re one of those.
Like I said. Fascist.
Deathfrogg-
You are the one who started the debate saying I have no dog in the hunt when I pointed out I do because I pay taxes…
I said “perhaps” it’s you who doesn’t have a dog in the hunt.
I think all taxpayers and residents have a dog in the hunt, don’t you?
Taxation without representation mean anything to you??
Be serious.
Gregoire blew it with consecutive unsustainable Budgets and caving into the Union bosses during a recession.
She is either incompetent…or evil.
Neither one is good.
Dumbfuck KLOWN, I’ve been following this bullshit of yours for years. You own properties. You sold the properties. Then you own the properties. Then you sold them. Now you own them again. You tell us you live in Montana. Then you tell us you have lunch in Lacy every day. Then you tell us you live in Montana. You’re literally all over the fucking map. You need a continuity consultant to help you keep your damned lies straight.
Let’s not forget that the “failing school” trip wire in NCLB is still intact.
We whack the budget, still demand ever increasing test scores, and then whack the teachers & kids for not reaching the standards.
I’m also wondering how local schools are going to reach the new Wa State School Board new requirements for an extra year of high school science with even less money for classrooms & equipment.
Funny that we say that the Banksters have to get a massively huge salary and an obscene bonus so the profession can attract the best talent. But when you go to the educational world, none of that logic matters.
Sort of indicates a disingenuous argument there, buddy.
Goldy, do you ever stop with the emotional reactions and look at the numbers? Here’s what I’ve found in about ten minutes of research. Since 2004, state spending on primary education has increased 37%. The student population has increased .7%. Inflation has been approx. 13%. Do you see anything wrong with this? If not, you’re hopeless.
Anecdotal info: my kid’s middle school in Seattle used to have one counselor per grade. They just added a 2nd counselor-like position per grade.
Those two assholes sure make a lot of noise.
It’s austerity-time folks, buckle down it’s only get get rougher! If the Europeans are doing it of course we’re gonna do it. We are not more socialist then they are.
Yes and no…I don’t begrudge people who have earned a position, compete for it on a daily basis, and reap the rewards for that work.
I do however have a major problem with, starting with the last days of President Bush and continuing with President Obama, the government handing over Billions of tax payer dollars to these institutions. They made fatal, institutional killing decisions, and should have to suffer the consequences. How many wall street folks were either fired or arrested for this fiasco? IMO Bush sold out his priciples to save a “depression”, when in fact he went full tilt socialist…President Obama, in my opionion didn’t need much nudging to embrace this course of action and has in fact ramped it up.
As soon as there is competition to remain employed as a teacher, or administrator, and compensation based on merit and performance, there will be an argument to compare them.
This of course IMO only…
LOL this is the nuttiness of the left in a nutshell. Keep on being dead-enders.
@132
Someday when you grow up, you are going to face up to this..IMO Karma is a bitch, and what you put out into the world comes back to you 10 fold.
So, go ahead and sit behind a keyboard and insult away…someday, someway you are going to have to pay the price for it…
I have the great satisfaction of perspective to know this is true, and can only hope you come to realize this truth yourself before it’s too late….
Why do conservatives hate the idea of unions so much? Why do they despise so much the very idea of a group of workers having leverage against the company, to fight for better pay and benefits?
@138 Great post. I agree, all the conservatives who hate unions, should move to China. It’s just their type of government anyway.
@102 Blue John
Honestly, I don’t actively use “programs”.
I use the roads, and pay for that use at the pump. I have 2 kids, they’ll both be in public school next year..I pay for that too, property taxes etc. I have never used 911 or needed the police or fire dept. (hopefully never will!) but pay for that as well thru property taxes, etc.
IMO I put in more than take out…does that answer your question?
@147 You say they added a counselor. Did you find out if they NEED a councilor? You imply they don’t, but did you find out? Maybe they have a huge amount of messed up kids who need a councilor so they don’t get violent or suicidal.
Why is endless spending on defense and needless occupations acceptable, but spending on our kids education and investing in our future is not. It must be no bigger than inflation?
http://economix.blogs.nytimes......come-gain/
I mean like…who gives a fuck. The CEO’S and rge Banksters need their taxes cut.
@153
It’s too lazy for conservatives to blame unions..Of that I agree. I have come to believe that, just as any political animal, unions suffer from the same power “issues” as any other special interest group.
Personally I don’t. I think it’s preposterous when people on my side of the aisle rail against “those evil unions” as bankrupting companies…..Excuse me, but there was a management team at the negotiation that AGREED to and SIGNED those deals….Therefore, those company executives are the parties most responsible for bad deals…The unions just put the offers on the table..
Now, where I do have a problem with unions is their politics..Just like any other special interest lobby, they peddle money for influence. I was a teamster years ago. I had no way to opt out of dues payments, especially for political activity “on my behalf” that I didn’t believe in…Had that been possible, I’d have no problem with unions.
@120:
Just because you post a lot doesn’t mean that you’re anywhere near correct. And your question has already been addressed quite well by masabi in @49. Are you ready to walk everywhere and forego fire and police services? If not, you should stop making yourself look like a fool.
Programs, Services, what ever.
So my question rephrased, of the services you benefit from, that you listed, you are accepting with all of those services also being reduced or cut all together in this budget crisis?
153. Why do conservatives hate the idea of unions so much?
I can’t speak for all conservatives, but government unions rub me the wrong way, for exactly the same reasons cited by Willie Brown. It’s the mutual benefit the union and those holding public office derive (high raises in exchange for campaign contributions) that make this an unholy alliance. There’s nobody at the table representing the taxpayers, thus no brakes on the union giveaways. Until now, when they run into the brick wall of revenue.
155. Why is endless spending on defense and needless occupations acceptable
I, for one, railed against the Iraq invasion from day one. And, I’m all for a huge decrease in defense spending.
@160:
It’s the mutual benefit the union and those holding public office derive (high raises in exchange for campaign contributions) that make this an unholy alliance.
Substitute “union” with “corporation”, and you have just given the prime reason for getting money out of our election system! Are you in favor of getting money out of our politics, or do you have a double standard when it comes to corporate campaign contributions?
I’d be all for getting that kind of money out of the system, but I’m not sure how you do that without violating free speech rights. I’d be 100% behind public funding for elections, but I don’t know how that would work. I agree that there are lots of parallels – basically exchanging money for votes.
Is this really a political blog or a shit throwing contest? What is the point of trying to make a reasonable post here?
Goldy, I’m not going to say anything against you personally like the trolls, but I will say that this blog isn’t really worth reading, in my opinion, if this is the standard. I haven’t checked it in a few weeks because of the level of discourse it had stooped to, and now that I came back for 1 day and left a few comments, I see that nothing has changed.
masaba–Does lefty steve and the crazy rabbit throwing out “goatf*cker” every post kind of turn you off too?
Here is some information to help prove the problem in Washington State is OVERSPENDING.
Previously, I posted Gregoire’s own Office of Financial Management numbers which showed the Operating & Capital Fund Spending increased by 34.5% (from $27.5% Billion FY 2005 to $37 Billion FY 2011).
For the 5 year period FY2005 to FY2010, Washington State’s GDP only increased 12.8%.
So help me out masaba…this is serious..how can you justify the discrepancy between Growth in Government Spending with Growth of our GDP.
It’s a huge, unsustainable gap…right?
Cyn, be quiet and go away.
You don’t live here. Go apply your solutions to your state. Go mess up your state.
Do we tell you that your GOP party is wrong because it wants to out law gay people?
Why do you care, goatfucker…you don’t live here.
PS-MISTER-Cynical-ASS-Klown NEVER knows what the fuck he’s talking about.
Wow, some folks are sure ignorant on Wa State continuing contract law. It is a process to fire teachers, and it is not tenure. All the continuing contract law does is guarantee due process, which is something every American deserves by right.
If you have a crap teacher in the building, you have a crap administrator. The administrators have a clear process laid out in the WACs for getting rid of bad teachers. The problem is the administrators won’t do their job.
Blaming other teachers or the union for bad teachers is totally irresponsible and crosses the line into dishonesty. Teachers and unions have ZERO supervisory responsibility and ZERO authority to eliminate poor teachers.
If you hear an administrator claim that it is too hard to fire a teacher, you are also hearing an administrator admit to personal incompetence on their part or, in a generous interpretation, a lazy administrator.
Read the law before making misleading and false claims that seem to have a sole purpose of kicking teachers for fun & sport.
You know the biggest lie of all? That the teachers union is a strong, immovable political force.
WEA is led by people with the full force of kittens.
@ 163
I’m guessing that you expect to find policy debates here, and are only finding political debates–the difference between the two being that the primary purpose of a political debate is to ensure that no real policy debate takes place.
As a case in point, consider the questions posed to you @164.
First, note that he doesn’t cite any sources. You have to some hunting to find data yourself. I’ll save you the trouble. You can find Washington State spending history here, and GDP data through 2009 here.
Second, the question posits a Washington State GDP growth figure from FY 2005 to FY 2010. Except that no one knows what the GDP figure is for FY 2010, so you know he’s simply making numbers up.
Lastly, in an attempt to “prove” that spending is the issue, this poseur cherry picks the endpoints in some time series data with no justification offered for choosing those particular end points. One could just as easily have chosen the years 2004 and 2008 for the start and end of the period in question, at which point Washington State’s expenditures grew by 28% while GDP grew by more than 30%.
All of which, essentially, proves that Cynical isn’t really interested in a well-reasoned policy debate. He’s only interested in having a political debate, and doesn’t even do a very good job of masking that fact. Which is why most of the folks here just call him a goat fucker. We’ve all tried to have honest policy debates with him, all to absolutely no avail.
I’d be all for getting that kind of money out of the system, but I’m not sure how you do that without violating free speech rights.
Simple. Corporations and unions are not live humans. They should not have the rights of human people.
Put your efforts into changing the WA and US constitutions so business entities are not considered people.
@169…
He’s shitty at political debates.
In thinking about it. If you want to try to have a policy debate or two. please do.
But it’s not going to roberts rule of order easy. You will have to ignore the constant off topic sniping of the trolls and the shills. They never shut up or add anything postitive to the discussion. Some don’t even live in the state, so they don’t have a stake in the game, but are perfecly willing to cast FUD. But the rest of, once we shifted mental gears, would welcome a discussion or two.
@170
it won’t happen because it would mean one side would have to unilaterally disarm
With all of the force of kittens:
“I don’t know what the answer is,” Mary Lindquist, president of the Washington Education Association, said when asked how lawmakers should avoid cuts to education. “I’m not an economist, but I know we have to do better. We don’t have a choice. Any parent will tell you, when times are tough, you take care of your kids.”
@169 That was the best post I’ve read here at HA in some time, Don Joe.
Considering the question,
“masaba–Does lefty steve and the crazy rabbit throwing out “goatf*cker” every post kind of turn you off too?”
I’m sure masaba is a little put off. But then, which is worse? Someone who swears now and then while vigorously defending minority groups, the poor and middle class, or someone who expresses political views that would leave the them as road kill after being run over powerful special interests, all while brandishing their religion and exclaiming that everybody on the left is an aetheist and are going to hell?
@170 it won’t happen because it would mean one side would have to unilaterally disarm
You need to elaborate on that.
Who do you think would be disarming?
Why is that bad?
@176
Public financing is not a bad thing in my book especially when you read articles like the one out a few days ago that expects Obama to spend over 1 billion on his reelection if he chooses to do that.
But Democrats would be at a pretty stark disadvantage if Unions or Corporations were not allowed to donate, much more then the republicans.
re 177: The biggest disadvantage to Republicans is that they are incompetent at governing.
Again and again, reading some 178 posts overall so far, we see repeated insistence to the effect that “If any of you liberals want to raise taxes, feel free to send your money in to the government”.
Of course, if we were to do so, the wingnuts would then argue that since the government has a new source of revenue, their own taxes should be cut again. It would be a never-ending cycle, straight down to the bottom. I would say that Washington would eventually resemble Mississippi, but I think Haiti would probably be a better analogy.
@177,
How do you figure?
One. Obama in the last election raised huge amounts of cash from individual doners.
Two, in the last election cycle there were very few democrats who were beneficiaries of corporate giving, compared to the republicans. Dems were at a huge disadvantage AGAINST the corporations.
It would mean the politicians of any stripe would have to campaign on the issues that mattered to the people for their contributions and then fulfill their promises to get further campaign donations in the next cycle.
That’s why Obama and the dems are flagging now. They made big promises, then act like moderate republicans. The base is unwilling to open their check books for them again, as it currently stands.
I would gladly stop unions from contributing if I could keep corporations out of politics.
165. Blue John spews:
I pay more taxes than you do BJ. I have a dog in this hunt for many reasons.
I guess it’s easier to say go away than to address my comment, huh?
I posted Gregoire’s own Office of Financial Management numbers which showed the Operating & Capital Fund Spending increased by 34.5% (from $27.5% Billion FY 2005 to $37 Billion FY 2011).
For the 5 year period FY2005 to FY2010, Washington State’s GDP only increased 12.8%.
So answer the question BJ.
How SUSTAINABLE is a 34.5% Budget increase with a 12.8% GDP increase???
Answer–It’s obviously NOT, unless you are a Democrat Hack.
@ # 177: “…But Democrats would be at a pretty stark disadvantage if Unions or Corporations were not allowed to donate, much more then the republicans….”
Huh???? Obviously, you haven’t seen the breakdowns from the last election. Corporate contributions to Republican or “Tea Party” candidates far outpaced the amounts offset by Union contributions.
Or, you could be getting your ideas from “Faux News”. Which would explain a lot.
@181…
…2010 ain’t over and 2011 ain’t here yet fuckwad.
Your numbers don’t mean shit.
Here is my GDP Growth source–
http://www.usgovernmentspendin.....38;local=s
And the FACT is Gregoire & the Democrats increased Operating & Capital Fund Spending by 34.5% since FY2005.
The evidence comes directly from Gregoire’s Office of Financial Management Website.
Look for yourselves–
http://fiscal.wa.gov/expenditures.aspx
I posted that link previously but since Don Joe has gotten lazy, I guess I’ll post it again.
Oh and PS–
It’s possible the FY2010 GDP is LESS than estimated by this source.
Hey Don Joe, rather than cover your eyes and scream unfair and victim bullsh^t, how about having a FACTUAL Discussion.
Give me YOUR numbers and source and we’ll discuss the differences civilly.
Also, please stop whining about Eyman and I-1053 and ridiculously blaming the “Tea Party”. To show you how ridiculous that is consider that almost 64% or 1,575,655 Washington voters voted Yes on I-1053.
Rossi only got about 47%.
So a who lot of your alleged “Tea Partiers” must have voted for Murray.
It makes no sense.
Voters gave Democrats a Probationary period to clean up the mess they created without any tax increase unless approved by the voters.
That’s the bottom-line.
@177 Corporations have far more money than unions and they’ll buy any politician, left or right, and they pretty much own our government. I’ve said before that, if they are to be granted the rights of an individual person to free speech, they need to accept the responsibilities of the individual. As not a single banker is in jail today, I don’t see that as being the case. Rather, even now the banks rush through foreclosures without care or regard for the damage they do to us. They are receiving huge bonuses while so many in our nation are experiencing hard times the likes of what we haven’t seen in this country for over a generation. Miners and oil rig workers are dead due to blatant safety violations. And yet nobody from Massey, BP or Halliburton is facing criminal charges.
You are not the enemy and neither am I. They push our buttons with their billions spent on campaigns and focus group research used to find catch phrases and words that are then used to raise our ire towards our neighbors, our family and friends, and pitting the poor and middle class against ourselves and our own self interests. Instead of focusing on our differences and fighting amongst ourselves we need find the common ground we share and build on it.
@181, 184 and 185 STFU, you goddamned devisive, hate-filled KLOWN.
@177 Please keep talking.
I can’t believe the pride in ignorance conservatives flaunt.
I dowrite the state a check, because I believe in the social contract.
I pay for services I think are good and necessary for society.
But the shockingly ignorant, self-loathing conservatives that post here think that the infrastructure fairy just sprinkles magic civilization dust and roads, schools and power lines just pop into existence.
I’m old and childless, so seeing the country devolve into a Jonathan Swift/Road Warrior mash-up won’t hurt me too much.
I just regret not being able to find the conservatives behind these comments and quietly enjoy my schaudenfreude while they eat their children.
187. Steve spews:
Hate?
I’ve been disclosing FACTS that you seem to disagree with. Rather than debate, stev just spews nonsensical venom.
Get rid of that childhood bitterness.
It only hurts you steve.
@184…
Get a good laugh by checking out the FAB-uloso Christsopher Chantrill the author and compiler of the specious information MISTER-Cynical-ASS-Klown is citing.
Hey…MISTER-Cynical-ASS-Klown this asshole is another consevatard like you. This is not unbiased, neutral information (WHY on earth would we EVER get unspun information from a Fox and Rasmussen loving shitheel like you???)!!
Come back when you can deliver real numbers.
(I won’t hold my breath…)
Shove it up your ass.
@189…
Why do you need FACTS, asshole…you’ve got all these opinions…which are like assholes…which are like YOU.
I pay more taxes than you do BJ. I have a dog in this hunt for many reasons.
Yeah right. Pardon me if I don’t beleive you.
Do you yearn for the “good old days” when the only people who could vote were land owners?
Cynical keeps repeating that the states Operating & Capital Fund keeps increasing, yet he doesn’t seem to be able to nail down that the state revenue was increasing at the same rate until 2008. He pulls an apples to shit sandwich comparison and claims that he’s knowledgeable.
By Washington State constitution, the Governor presents a two-year, balanced budget to the legislature who can then amend or pass it.
Of course Cynical cheerfully ignores inflation and the increases that causes government costs to rise.
Because the government still pays 1889 prices.
This Cristopher Chantrill shit is seriously fucked up. That explains MISTER-Cynical-ASS-Klown…the neo-Bircher. I always wondered where this idiot’s fuckedup-ness came from.
Now I know. Yay.
MISTER-Cynical-ASS-Klown has probably got his BFF the big p’dumbski indoctrinated too.
Nice to know who the fucking enemies of freedom are.
@194…
He doesn’t know shit about ANY constitution…he’s happy to be ignorant ’cause then anything he thinks is right…is right.
This is what the rubes voted for. Fucking ignoramuses. Can’t blame Gregoire for doing her job. Well done, then!
@ 184
Give me YOUR numbers and source and we’ll discuss the differences civilly.
I did. In my comment at 169. And I included links to sources. Since then, you’ve twice ignored the facts that I brought to light in that comment. That might have a veneer of civility, but the veneer is very thin–very thin indeed. You aren’t using the exact phrase “fuck you,” but your conduct says as much.
Now, please justify your argument’s ignorance of the fact that GDP growth tends to be more volatile than spending (a fact that’s true for both government and private sector spending, by the way). Otherwise, take your lectures on civility, and shove them up your ass.
So it’s 6:45 PM, and Cynical has still not responded to the points I raised in my comment @169; this despite the fact that he’s found the time to post in other threads. Do we need any further evidence that he’s not interested in a policy debate?
By the way, he has also not told us where he got a GDP figure for 2010. The site he linked only gives figures up to 2008.
Don Joe–
I picked 2005 because that was when Gregoire took office. It is also when the recession was becoming apparent.
The GDP numbers for 2009 & 2010 are best estimates of economists. I doubt they are too far off, do you?
GDP numbers have inflation too, so your argument that Government Spending has inflation so it isn’t that bad is a non-starter.
And most importantly, when Gregoire says out of one side of her mouth years ago that the Budget she is signing is unsustainable and then signs it anyway…not good.
Look at some of the old Times Articles
http://community.seattletimes......dgetside08
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ide08.html
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....t20m0.html
There are dozens of articles where Gregoire acknowledged the Boom-time is temporary, but grew government costs anyway.
Don Joe–
WTF–
Your GDP source also refers to “estimates” for 2009 and it shows Washington State having a (.7%) reduction in GDP.
Did you even bother to look at your source?
You proved my point.
Spending went up while GDP actually went down in 08/09.
Seems like you are just posting random sh*t and protesting without any critical analysis.
Shame on you Don Joe!