Last week WA State GOPolitburo chair Chris Vance bemoaned Democratic efforts to contact King County voters whose ballots were rejected because their signature didn’t match, warning that the D’s were trying to “turn this into Florida.”
Well now the R’s are suing again, this time to prevent King County from manually counting ballots rejected by the optical scanning machines. [Republicans file suit to limit King County recount]
What exactly is Vance trying to stop?
Egan said hand counting is necessary and legal in several instances, including torn or crumpled ballots, partially filled in ovals, ballots where a candidate’s name is circled or checked, and ballots where a voter changed his or her mind and crossed out one oval and marked another.
Yup, sounds like Florida to me: the D’s are trying to count every vote, and the R’s are trying to stop them.
Even money- the Federal Judges refuse with no comment to issue the injunction desperate R’s seek- the best quote of the week is Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels, “This is no Broward county, every vote will be counted.” And I must say The jovial Pillsbury boy sounded more steely than I have ever heard him…..wonder if Seattle will jump in as well since they have contract and citizen rights involved. Another compelling brief from a law school budy/cohort or two could help.
Best campaing amo in the next election cycle will be the KING 5 shots of the ballots in question, the one with the torn edge and the other with ovals marked with a very clear line, not colored in. Those stupid citizens- they get in the way of easy counting all too often- Voter supression will not sell well in the I-5 voter rich motherload.
Rudy, Rudy, Rudy
Doesn’t it at least raise your eyebrow that every King Co. ruling goes against the R’s and the law??? We have Judge Lean Dum jumping in second guessing election officials decisions while saying judges shouldn’t have to involved??!!!
You continue to spin this like that rare bird, the darkinere. The Republicans have only been on the defensive so far…ballot security in King Co. (isn’t that reasonable??) OOOPPS! It’s the election officials job! What a disaster from everyone’s perspective. I’ve always believed the far-left wingers of the Democratic Party were capable of anything…cuz the end justifies the means. This is why even though I went to an incredibly liberal college, University of Wisconsin Madison in the very early 70’s, I became a Republican. I just couldn’t hold my nose any longer!
Cynical… I don’t think I’ve seen a single comment on this blog that attacked R demands for ballot security. So give it up on that issue… nobody’s arguing with you.
And… both sides think the other is filled with liars and cheats. I guess you think the R’s have some kind of claim to moral and ethical purity?
Goldy & Rudy–Perhaps I’ll change my name to Cynical-dy so my name ends in -dy like you 2 left-wing jewels!
Seriously- Rudy’s wrist-flapping, hand-wringing gotcha conspiracy theory about Snohomish County being overvoted in 4 precindts turns out to be false. Seems the Dems forgot to add the new voter registrations to the prior registration total. FUZZY MATH by the Dems…again. They will do anything to win. Rudy, I hope you will take these Dem rumors with a block of salt. Repeating them makes you look Dum (like Judge Lean Dum!!!)
Oh and Goldy–all good-natured ribbing aside..I appreciate this site because you do allow those with opposing views to have their say. Thank you.
Gentlemen,
I am going to be very respectful… but very blunt when I say YOU’RE MISSING THE POINT! YOU’RE FLYING TO VANCOUVER, B.C. WHEN YOU NEED TO FLY TO VANCOUVER, WA. – I’LL PUT IT THAT WAY.
This all started because Chris Vance being the grunt advocate of the GOP vote, went to Dean Logan last Thursday night and wanted the blank ballots counted and secured. Dean (maybe confusing himself with being Governor) said No.
This is the just GOP response. Why would I put GOP in the same sentence as just? Well, You need blank ballots to duplicate and enhance votes – which I support – although the stupidity of some voters irritates me. What part of reading directions don’t they understand?
Maybe we should do it the Canadian way: Hand-counts at the local voting place where a checkmark or X or filled in the circle works and advance polls instead of absentee votes. But then again, the grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side of the fence. And I prefer absentee voting.
Goldy, I will be blunt as to, “both sides think the other is filled with liars and cheats” – well, if the GOP is fighting for ANYTHING more than ballot security and getting these blank ballots under control, then I’m going to start firing off lava by the 747-400F a second! Maybe then Mt. St. Helens will regrow fast enough for all of us!!
Oh and I don’t need any “dy” by my name. Josef works just swell for me.
Let’s get real- Vance was tired of Berendt getting all the face time… The idiot lawsuit by the State Republican Party is NOT about unsecured blank ballots- it is about ballot enhancement (making ballots readable by the damn machines) and it seeks a restraining order only in King County. Vance leaves the GOP flank wide open and exposed by not seeking statewide uniform rules. Pierce County is enhancing ballots, too, as are every optical scan county.
There may be an equal protection problem, but that is only if the punchcard couynties do not enhance ballots.
Our state laws require ballot enhancement. There is no suggestion of any shenanigans with the enhancement- we don’t have disputes about voter intent here (at least so far, and let’s pray it keeps up that way). Both parties are creating smoke in order to cover future movement and setting the stage for taking advantage of public confusion- by creating that very public confusion.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, both party chairs are under fire internally, have their jobs very much at risk, AND ALL THIS BULLSHIT HAS BEEN MORE ABOUT WHAT IS GOOD FOR BERENDT AND VANCE than it is about what is good for the parties or the greater community.
Oh, and the D’s have no more interest in counting every vote than do the R’s- they didn’t in Florida in 2000, where they tried to block the counting of overseas military ballots, and they didn’t in King County in 2004, where they admittedly walked away from any provisional ballot they discovered cause to believe was for Rossi.
Hey Mr Silikie Cynnie- really tired of your homo gags. Of course I guess it is a projection of your Repulican perspective. Get off it- not interesting or charming. Obnoxious, boring and it is your friends that wear women’s underwear.
SHOHOMISH- the truh about that vote, ie recount tally, is still too be told. Remember it was not any Democrat cocktail talk that put the auditor in front of King 5 cameras – looking and talking very confused about how the ballot counting machines didn’t work well and jammed a lot all day long and thus he really didn’t know if the count was over or under cause the ballot ……etc.
What democratic conspiracy or paranoid Dem reaction forced that over stressed camera appearance. Note Snohomish has not recounted yet, why not at once if they thought their own count was off? Beats me for an idea.
Deriding the King County judge is so silly it reeks. Intelligent decisions based on the facts and quality of the arguments. Your sense of scarcasm boarders on racism. And all your digs at me for being gay are the worst verbal stuff I have endured from anyone my enitire life. It is called homophobia and gay folks don’t like it from straight frat boys in their fifties. Your arrested development is not keeping the conversation on voting on tract.
I, ME, – I want every vote counted. I respect the voting public- I love voteres and the concept of voting. I think of voting as a sacrement of sorts. Those are the values of my family and mom and dad, my sisters.
Chris Vance is a fool if he thnks this will wash in Washington State. But I suspect the national party is calling some shots. And after the Florida debacle no one wen to jail – voter fraud now has no penaly and if fact can reward- you dog wins the race and you reward the dirty players with enhanced patronage. Disgusting.
I think by a very slim margin Gregoire will be governor. King county hand count is the key. It will happen if needed. Of that you can be certain.
RUN RUN CHRISTINE — RANT RANT VAPID VAN
This is all quite frustrating…yet mentally stimulating. It comes down to honesty and internal controls, really. I guess I shouldn’t get too excited thinking about Berendt in jail surrounded by new friends wanting to help the crybaby. Jim–you are correct about political posturing going on. The State GOP is fairly inept and lacks the depth need to consistently win campaigns based on issues and candidate track records. The D’s definitely have the worker bees. I just talked with several ardent D supporters who really want these provisionals re-validated by an independent party. They both felt if there is any monkey-business…Berendt must go even if he didn’t sign the affadavits himself (he did take responsibility for them by personally turning them in). From what I understand, Vance has long ago pissed off many good potential GOP players. I still say it’s absolutely amazing Rossi got to where he is today with that State Rep. Party. He truly ran an amazing race.
Please don’t confuse political parties with county government……King county, for example, gave the political parties full access to all of the provisional ballots regardless of whose vote they may have represented. It was the party (R’s and D’s both) ground troops that made “go” “no-go” decisions. The implication that the King County apparatus is in league with any party is, well, even if they wanted to, impossible with the continual spotlight. If you want to see some crony politics, just head east of the mountains (lived it, seen it) where places like Adams County are run by a cabal of the chamber of commerce/Elks Club/Repub. party…. without oversight from any pesky media or Democratic party observers.
Rudy-typical Leftist response when you are wrong. Accuse someone of being homophobic and racist. People are kind of sick of that. Look at your own previous messages and tell folks you are sin-free!!! I have friends & relatives who are gay. Only 1 of them believes in gay marriage. All the others think its outrageous BS…all they want is certain legal protections (which is fine by me).
I have a new nickname for you Rudy–
“Mr. Perpetually Offended” You can deflect attention from the issues and your ignorance by hurling yourself on the ground and whining “I’ve been personally attacked!!!” Sad, but typical.
Jim, I respectfully don’t agree with much but all but the last two paragraphs you posted so far. Sure the party chairs are pillow-fighting for the cameras and yada, yada, yada… but again please remember the prelude to this.
Rudy, I agree with “Deriding the King County judge is so silly it reeks.” I agree with the Judge so far… But I hope Rossi wins and there’s a new penalty for voter fraud: The pillory or something else equally harsh. Like janitorial services for the other guy for 90 days.
David, as to: “The implication that the King County apparatus is in league with any party is, well, even if they wanted to, impossible with the continual spotlight.” I agree. The problem is, I think DEAN Logan is playing Governor… and in a way by a quirk of fate, he is.
Finally, I want it made clear that if you can’t follow the instructions on the ballot, all FUTURE elections will have those ballots rejected. I learned in community college the hard way – I had a drop-dead gorgeous and hands-down angelic US History Teacher in Dr. Anne Will at Skagit Valley College I was trying to impress by getting a 100 on a major test and because I didn’t follow directions on ONE question, I got only a 97. Big loss to my ego and I swore never to let my angel down again. Quick way to learn to read directions CAREFULLY.
That said, I again believe it’s about controlling blank ballots. If THIS Gov’r Dean (Logan) had them under control to Vance’s satisfaction, then the GOP wouldn’t really have a case for suing about this in King County. No, it’d be whining that I’d hate and despise…
Josef- listen to Diane Tebelius’ comments, and check out what the GOP is suing about- it is NOT the uncounted ballots. It is King County’s “enhancement” of ballots that the machines cannot read.
And it is a bullshit lawsuit- and typical of these two party chairs.
Dean Logan is following state law and the explicit instructions from Republican Secretary of State Sam Reed. Reed supports Logan on this.
And Reed and Logan are right. And the GOP doesn’t have a case. Just an incompetent chairman, and a chair wannabe lawyer…
Well Mr C. – You did not hear me. This is the first time in my entire life I have been insulted by anyone about being gay, aside from one catcall ten years ago from some teenage boys on Broadway were just yelling fag at everyone on the street. They seem surprised when at the stoplight one muscle builder fellow picked up a two by four at a little construction site and smashed their headlights in and I suspect was about to smash their winshield. Fag fighting back of course was not in their lexicon. They sped away- oh well.
In the midst of all the insults, you still have not given any insight about why Snohimish County is acting so srange. Neither has Josef- who I assume lives there. You are both Bossi fans, so in the name of civil discourse, please evaluate why they did not recount at once, not even three days later, when they publicy told the world they fear their count is off…….I find it odd to say the least.
If folks don’t like gay marriage in Washington get ready to move.
SCOOP- March 8th, oral arguments scheduled before the Washington Supreme Court. Might take months for the actual decision
but most observers think gay marriage will be legalized under our state constitution, very strong on givil rights. Then, Mr. C, at least all your gay friend will have the REAL option of saying they don’t want to get married. No big deal- their choice. Only a handful of Gay and Lesbain folks want to get married, but we are all fighting for the opion of full citizenship which allow them to say yes or no.
Back to voting- plenty of time later in the next year to hear all the anguish from the divorced straight folks- and how gay folks marringing have/will destroyed their lives.
Go, go, go, Gregoire – vapid Vance stopping the count of very legal ballots, bad move- an attack on the body politique
ON THE FACE AS HEY SAY WHEN A RULING SPEAKS FOR ITSELF
Federal District Court Judge Marsha Pechman today denied the Republican
Party’s attempt to stop King County from recounting some ballots.
“We were confident all along that we were acting in accordance with State
Law and were pleased the judge acted quickly and without delay to the
recount,” said Dean Logan, director of King County Records and Election Services
Remember how long it took for WOMEN to get the vote- and then how much longer to become Judges, right wingers take note who might have lots of incentive to protect voting rights.
The Democrat attempt to “Floridize” this election shows just how well they have learned NOTHING from Bill Clinton (but he learned the Theory of ‘Political’ Relativity from Dick Morris anyway) there will be an equal and opposite reaction (blowback) on fumble-fingered power grabs. And beware the public deciding ‘that your dog ain’t got no hunt’ – both Clintonisms are in play. And they are in play, to paraphrase Dick Cheney, BIG TIME. You Democrats crack me up: your political opponents are ALWAYS idiots – yet you bow at the altar of worship for the clueless voters who can’t figure out how to fill a ballot! http://www.pscottcummins.com/blog
P S C – clueless voters – that is a new rant. Thought it would be activist judges. – out of control judiciary ……..hope you never have Parkinson’s or go blind from diabetic complications….of course that is how sensitive you are and ignorant of a simple universal refrain – COUNT EVERY VOTE- Post Frorida, I suspect it is the most telling refrain in the body national body politic across all sectors and all parties. Election thiefs beware. True democracy will self correct- or you better get the troops in the streets soon. Oh forgot- your using all the guard units in Viet Nam/Iraq.
Rudy- and I’m not being facetious here, honestly wondering- these severely debilitated voters cast provisional ballots? They physically got to the polls? I guess I had assumed stories I had heard about these folks and their signatures not matching were in reference to absentee ballots, and having had to deal with the situation many years ago when a grandmother’s absentee ballot was questioned because of changing signature, I was very sympathetic.
And Josef- get highly tecxhnical and demanding on rules and ballots being filled out exactly right, and watch the rationale you’ve given for tossing ballots out… “Substantial compliance” is a common sense standard throughout life, and life is NOT community college…
Well it wouldn’t be any fun arguing with people who agree with me, now would it?
Trying to respond to you all is like air traffic control of jetliners in a very small space…
First, I am from SKAGIT County – not Snohomish and therefore haven’t heard much about their snafu. No comment (for now).
Second, Rossi is spelled with an R, not a B.
Third, I support ballot enhancement for this election at this point. Future elections should require that putting a blue slash through an oval you’re supposed to COMPLETELY fill with a #2 pencil as I did and circiling outside of it (as I saw on KING 5) should mean that ballot is rejected. We need to draw a line. That’s what Dr. Will did for me.
Respectfully put, if “life is NOT community college…” – then what is? Dr. Will had every right to say no, even though she and I both knew that I knew the answer to the question (and she knew I was fighting because I wanted to give her my all). So do the county auditors. I ALWAYS read the damn directions because I’m NOT Tim Eyman, I’m a Dinocrat and I have a brain. I ALWAYS put my ballot in the right envelopes. I ALWAYS sign my ballot. If you can’t do that, my father and I both agree: They should junk your ballot.
Oh and gee whiz, is Governor Dean (with a mustache) going to do the Dean Scream? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
My updates to all of this is here at http://josef-a-k.blogspot.com/.....rossi.html
Sorry- Dr Will was WRONG, and so are you. “I had a drop-dead gorgeous and hands-down angelic US History Teacher in Dr. Anne Will at Skagit Valley College I was trying to impress …” Think with the UPPER brain, it will cause you less trouble over the years.
Comment by Jim King— 11/21/04 @ 7:10 pm
Okay, Jimmy. You tell me how you’d have resolved the situation of kids coming to Dr. Will telling her RIGHT after they knew the answer but didn’t understand the test??? I’d like to know.
Oh and yeah she’s my angel – she got my back. She took this disabled, depressed and dejected kid under her wing and made something out of me again. Gave me back a shred of self-esteem afer 4 years of bullying in Sedro-Woolley High School. For that, she’s my redheaded Angel-in-Chief. So can the sexual innuendo, please :-). That said, I admit: I’m STILL sucking up to her. Why is beyond me but I know if I yell help, my 6-foot tall Angel-in-Chief (who passes as Allison Janney most days) will be the first (or second) one there.
Whether it is resolvable or not does NOT determine whether it was right or not- but having said that, if any professor had shot my score or grade down on a technicality, that professor would have been explaining that arbitrary decision first to the department chair, then to the university president and/or the trustees.
We had cases like that in the ’70’s, and professors quickly had their arbitrariness handed back to them. We have cases like that today with bureaucrats, and administrative law judges slap their hands very hard. “Substantial compliance” is the standard in the real world.
Comment by Jim King— 11/21/04 @ 8:18 pm
Good points. Mine to Dr. Will was that I didn’t read carefully the direction spelling out the amount of answers required. Other students made those kind of silly mistakes. And more.
That said, in Dr. Will’s defense, Doc Will really pushes us students – but we knew that going in. And we loved (and many of us still) love her for it. Sure one kid thinks she’s a witch, but he was an oddball in the minority who voted Nader in 2000. Go figure.
Again, good points Jim. Nice talking to you.
No you have me wondering if you WERE in substantial compliance- if you failed to give enough answers (the amount of answers required), she’s right- but that is different than not having the answer in the correct format, unless the choice of format is meaningful (that relates to filling out a bubble versus drawing a line- the format is NOT meaningful, except for ease of counting). Forgetting to sign a ballot is a slip of the mind, and auditors should make contact- but I have concerns about turning partisans loose, unless they are bound by oath as registrars are (and yes, I accept the idea that an oath will bind- it also sets the stage for significant penalties for violation).
And now that I have a better feel for why you admire the good doctor, sorry about the innuendo, but you have to admit your comments come across in a certain way…
Comment by Jim King— 11/21/04 @ 9:08 pm
I really liked this comment in a lot of ways. One, my mistake – like the not signing the ballot – was an honest slip of the mind. Dr. Will knew this. Second, I respectfully consider the wrong format a slip of the mind and although I believe ALL recounts of THIS election should accept them – the next time, the line should be drawn and voters should recieve blaring warning via the media and on their ballots. Third, I agree totally with you on partisans – let’s make them swear an oath and face a 367-day jail sentence for each voter forgery.
Finally, apology accepted and I also admit my comments on Dr. Will could be interpreted in various ways. For instance: Comparing her to Allison Janney to get a picture in your mind (as to face, hair color, height, etc.) may not be the kind of picture I intend…
Josef & Jim–
What in the hell…don’t get sidetracked by Dr. Will!!! There is politics to pay attention to for God’s sake.
Actually, I’m kind of sick of this although I am involved in watching the recount in my County today. My prediction for my County is “No double-counted or missed ballots…perhaps a change of 1 or 2 because of being fed into the machine a little crooked”. Predictions—famous last words.
Did you see the Green Bay Packer game last night?? Brett Favre is one hell of a QB!