If this is where we’re at right now with the debt ceiling negotiations, I’m starting to become legitimately worried that Republicans in the House will succeed in driving this country over a cliff.
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Is there a single adult among congressional Republicans? They did not get a mandate in 2010 to do what they’re doing. I cannot believe they are so partisan that they will put this nation into bankruptcy to improve their electoral odds next year. Actually, I do believe that. They misread the populace. The GOP is headed the way of the Whigs.
Never in the history of our country has a putative mandate been so disastrously misinterpreted.
Is their a single minded Democrat who understands how to CUT SPENDING?
My understanding is that it is the tea party wing that’s driving the refusal to compromise. Obama, as usual, offered the baby with the bathwater but that wasn’t enough.
It’s so stupid and completely unnecessary. Listening to some of the new reps today on the various news programs tells me that they are on borg autopilot and clearly are much too stupid to understand the consequences. They believe that the dire predictions are overblown.
Obama’s history of ultimately giving in each and every time probably has encouraged the game of chicken. IF they wait long enough he gives in.
Glass Half Empty
by Lee, 07/24/2011, 9:44 PM
If this is where we’re at right now with the debt ceiling negotiations, I’m starting to become legitimately worried that Republicans in the House will succeed in driving this country over a cliff.
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Good point, Dems have nothing to do with it. Why should Dems be expected to put their promises in writing, everybody knows that if Dems say they will make huge spending cuts we can believe it, so why waste paper.
Yes, we should keep this Ponzi scheme spending spree going until it destroys the country from within.
By the way, great jobs numbers this week!
Cisco, Lockeed Martin and Borders announces a combined 23,000 in job cuts. State and local governments cut 142,000 jobs this year.Goldman Sachs announced plans to let 1000 go.
Obama increases the debt by 40% gdp growth is on the way down, food stamps are up, millions more unemployed, and to accomplish this we spent 4 trillion
They’re going to go to the wire, that was clear from the beginning. That part is theater. Problem is, I’m not sure that they know where the wire is. In some ways, they have already broken it, since this is already creating international distrust of the US fiscal policy.
This is the worst crisis of US governance in my lifetime and yet it seems to be about nothing.
@4
“Why should Dems be expected to put their promises in writing…”
If that question is any measure of the stupidity that reigns among the tea party faithful, we’re fucked. We’re talking about proposed legislation. Apparently someone thinks it’s possible to pass a law without putting words to paper.
The Reid plan isn’t the final destination because it contains smoke and mirrors — it assumes, unrealistically, that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars will end by next year. That’s where Reid got $1 trillion of his $2.7 trillion of spending cuts.
Re @5, yes, they’ll go to the wire; and yes, this is theater; and no, they don’t know where the wire is. But it’s not “about nothing.” In fact, the stakes couldn’t be higher.
What it’s about is that Republicans, with control only of the House, are trying to set in motion the eventual repeal of the entire New Deal. They’re trying to get, through debt ceiling negotiations, what Bush couldn’t get from a more Republican Congress than we have now — the dismantling of a government-run safety net (Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid). They don’t have the White House or Senate, but nevertheless believe they can force Obama and a Democratic Senate to accede to their blueprint for America’s future by what amounts to political extortion.
It’s certain that GOPers have miscalculated. Polls show the public is not on their side, a factor that’s fortifying the resolve of President Obama and Democratic senators facing re-election next year. GOPers also misplayed their political hand, underestimating the political acumen of the White House and Senate in shifting the onus of the crisis (and the blame for any default) to the Republican Party. This reflects the political inexperience of the House GOP caucus; Boehner is an old hand at D.C. politics, but he has a shallow bench behind him, and an unruly caucus dominated by first-term amateurs he can’t control. What’s unfolding here is a GOP train wreck.
When all of this started, I predicted in these comment threads there was a 50-50 chance a default would happen. I think there’s still a roughly 50-50 chance that default can be avoided, but it’s more difficult now, because the Republicans have painted themselves into a corner. Democrats have the upper hand, and are in a better position than Republicans to weather a default, so it’s the GOPers who must capitulate and that’s going to be hard for them to do. There is no frikken’ way the Democrats can or will meet the GOP’s demands.
An economic meltdown is what the Teapottiers want. Go to Free Republic, the relevant threads there are full of comments about how the government is so big it must be torn down completely and rebuilt in the Christian/Conservative model, eliminating foreign aid, eliminating welfare and other “entitlements” like Medicare and Social Security. Government funding of science must be eliminated. Food Stamps are communism. FEMA is just an organization designed to round up Christians and put them in concentration camps. That the Government has no responsibility to fund education and that must be turned into a totally private, corporate owned for-profit system.
What it is, is they still believe Obama cannot possibly be a Natural Born citizen and has no authority as his Presidency is illegal. I believe that this is the basis for the current Republican attitude towards the economy and the Federal Budget, which took almost two years to pass.
They want a government shutdown. They say it flat out.
Why do people continue to use euphemistic terms like “tea party” anyway? It’s just Fascism.
When it came out the Norway mass-murderer quoted Sarah Palin and Pamela Gellar and Geert Wilders in his manifesto, and had plaigarized Ted Kaszinski in his manifesto and was a huge fan of the Teapotty movement in the United States, they insisted he must be a plant, or a Moslem convert or even had had facial reconstruction to make him look Norwegian.
Face it Teanazis, he was one of yours.
@1 “They did not get a mandate in 2010 to do what they’re doing.”
That’s correct. They won the 2010 House elections by promising jobs. Democrats were vulnerable because Obama spent his first 2 years on health care reform instead of jobs. But once in office, Repubs ignored the unemployed and pressed ahead with an agenda to repeal health care reform; that went nowhere. Now, trying to have something to show for their 2 years of House control, they’re reviving Dubya-era attacks on Medicare and Social Security — an insane strategy given polls showing 65% of the public thinks the rich should pay more taxes and 90% of the public don’t want entitlement cuts. How this plays out in 2012 is still a little hard to predict; one possible scenario is they win control of the Senate but lose control of the House. In almost any scenario, they’ve probably thrown away any chance they had of putting a Republican in the White House next year.
@3 “Obama, as usual, offered the baby with the bathwater but that wasn’t enough.”
You’re underestimating Obama and his White House political team, Laura. Obama’s moves were all about positioning — he knew the GOP could not and would not accept “the baby and the bathwater,” there were dealbreakers in his proffered deal. The White House maneuvering achieved its objectives; the GOP will have to settle on his terms, or take the blame for a default.
@4 You didn’t really think the Democrats would allow Repubs to use the debt ceiling negotiations to repeal the New Deal, did you?
This entire crisis was manufactured in the GOP strategy factory. The GOP’s objectives were unrealistic and unattainable from the beginning, and their tactics were reckless and irresponsible.
You guys own this tar baby, sweetie.
“This entire crisis was manufactured in the GOP strategy factory.”
Couldn’t all of this been avoided if the Dems passed a budget last fall? They had a majority at the time. We’d be executing their budget right now, right?
@12 They didn’t pass a budget last year because Republicans blocked it.
“They had a majority at the time.”
You seem to have forgotten what a SENATE FILIBUSTER is, Ace. For you and others with short memories, let me remind you that the Democrats lost the 60 votes they needed to get a budget through the Senate when Scott Brown won the special election in Massachusetts in February of 2010. Here’s what followed:
“December 8, 2010
“House Democrats pass a full-year budget for FY 2011
“House Democrats passed a full-year continuing resolution—keeping the federal government operating through the end of the fiscal year—that would have allowed the spending debate to take place on the 2012 budget, which begins in October this year. But Tea Party Republicans in the Senate blocked Congress from passing full-year funding, setting themselves up to create the current crisis—a crisis that they appear to have been plotting since before the elections last November.
“December 16, 2010
“Tea Party Republicans scuttle a full-year budget for FY 2011 in the Senate
“Under pressure from Tea Party Republicans after the November 3 congressional elections, which tea partiers took as a mandate to slash government spending while making permanent the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, Democratic leaders in Congress could not overcome a threatened filibuster in the Senate to pass a FY 2011 omnibus budget. Senate Democrats had 59 votes, more than enough to pass the legislation but … fewer than were needed to end debate once it was called up. Sen. Dan Inouye (D-HI) had spent the previous three months rounding up Republican votes to pass an omnibus budget, and in December believed he had the votes to take it up. Indeed, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) had initially worked with Sen. Inouye to pass the bill. But when Sen. McConnell was threatened with revolt by his Tea Party members in the Senate and House as well as by Tea Party leaders outside Congress, Sen. McConnell reported to Sen. Reid that the legislation could not be passed.
“Dec 21, 2010
“House and Senate Pass a continuing resolution through March 4, 2011
“After Senate Republicans blocked passage of a full-year funding bill, Congress in December 2010 passed a short-term continuing resolution that kept the government running at FY 2010 spending levels through March 4, 2011.”
http://www.americanprogress.or.....eline.html
So now the wingnut meme is that because wingnuts blocked Democrats from passing a budget last year, it’s the Democrats’ fault they didn’t pass a budget last year.
@12 (continued) Nice try, ace.
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeBOOOM!!!
http://tinyurl.com/3zo29hg
@15
Righties forget about this thing called the Internet where every bullshit thing they make up can be verified.
Center for American Progress is the site Roger Dumb Rabbit posted that crapola from. Leftist Kook-Aid swill from a George Soros “I have my tons of gold” site. And you complain when HA stops letting you “post something substantive”?
LMBBAO!
Did Reid present a budget?
Did Reid call for a vote on the House Budget?
Does Reid have a set?
A two letter word is the first answer that comes to mind! First letter N.
Puddy, you idiot.
Harry Reid can’t call for a vote in the House. He’s in the Senate.
Dems had majority in Congress and could have passed a budget.
Agreed, the bill could have been filibustered in the Senate. But, had the Dems passed a budget in the House, they now would be able to say, “We did our job, passed a balanced budget in the house last year, and the Republicans blocked it’s passage in the senate.”
Why did they not pass a budget in the House to gain such an advantage for the upcoming deficit crisis discussions? They could clearly see it coming and they chose not to do it. Why?
@13
No budget was presented – therefore there was no budget blocked by the Republicans.
@20 Bullshit.
@21 See #22.
Some people are too stupid to know when they’ve lost an argument on the facts.
I can think of at least two trolls in this thread that #24 applies to. At least one of them has his finger up his ass. The other has his head up his ass.
@21 A continuing resolution is not a budget.
Why did the dems not present a budget in the House when they could have passed it?
Obama had a budget in early 2010, right? Why not present that?
@26 Already answered @14 above. Sorry, you lose, but thanks for playing.
@26 (continued) Also see #24 above.
These guys think endlessly repeating the same bullshit somehow makes it come true.
@27. Your post @14 doesn’t answer it.
A “continuing resolution” is not a budget.
By December, the Dems no longer had control of the House.
My point is why didn’t they pass a budget when they had control of the house?
@30 It does answer it, and I’m not going to respond further, I have better things to do.
“Thanks for playing.”
There’s some noise in the House about passing another temporary extension to the debt ceiling, and “re-visiting” the issue in four or five months from now.
Obama has already rejected that, as he should. The GOP has been working the concept of “incremental compromise”. In short, “incremental compromise” involves making the other guy compromise again and again, so that the end result is far more than you could expect from a full resolution of the issue by parties negotiating in good faith.
They have tried to force these incremental compromises by creating a crisis where none should otherwise exist. For example, last December they refused what should have been a routine extension of unemployment benefits unless their estate-tax holiday was extended for several years. Now they are refusing to authorize an extension of the debt ceiling unless the President caves in on every aspect of their plans for spending cuts.
If the President agrees to some temporary extension, for which he would have to compromise considerably, he would face yet another round of demands in just a few months.
Let’s just get the problem solved, now.
Local Boeing news:
(1) ANA is announcing that it is expecting to receive the first commercial delivery of the 787 in September.
(2) Boeing will have an earnings conference with financial analysts tomorrow, and is expected to confirm that delivery schedule. What is an open issue is how many follow-on 787’s Boeing can reasonably be expected to delivery by the end of the year.
(3) Analysts are saying that the decision by Boeing and Airbus to use the interim re-engine strategy for their single-aisle aircraft means that COMAC (the Chinese single-aisle maker) and Bombardier will have years in which to progress towards catching up with Boeing and Airbus as a significant rival. The COMAC 919 is not expected to be a serious rival (outside of China) to either the Airbus or Boeing aircraft, but with both Boeing and Airbus putting off major re-design of their aircraft until around 2025, that gives plenty of time for those other makers to catch up.
Good news!
The nation is on the precipice of default for the first time in its history, and it is all the black Kenyan Muslim’s fault!
I hate the tea party shitheads. Stupid fuckers. Inbred hillbillies the lot of them. They are troglodytes with 6th grade reading and comprehension skills.
@36 Relax, Laura, and make money off it. That’s what I’m gonna do. =:-D<
@7. Roger Rabbit spews:
because the Republicans have painted themselves into a corner. Democrats have the upper hand, and are in a better position than Republicans to weather a default, so it’s the GOPers who must capitulate and that’s going to be hard for them to do. There is no frikken’ way the Democrats can or will meet the GOP’s demands.
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or maybe Obama has painted himself into a corner with the social security scare tactic. The Dem base vote relies upon government checks and are flooding Dem pols with calls to keep the checks coming no matter what. Senate Dems may throw Obama overboard and cut their own deal.
@9. Roger Rabbit spews:
They won the 2010 House elections by promising jobs. Democrats were vulnerable because Obama spent his first 2 years on health care reform instead of jobs.
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overspending was also part of it.
@33. rhp6033 spews:
If the President agrees to some temporary extension, for which he would have to compromise considerably, he would face yet another round of demands in just a few months.
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let’s see him veto one after claiming that the sky will fall if there is no deal. He’s fumbled away his own veto threat.
Obama’s got interest rates at sub zero, which is killing seniors who saved for a living and had their own nestegg but now are drawing nothing on it. The dollar is failing, and you want more of the same.
God save you all Greece is here!
@38
You’re assuming the Boner’s plan makes it past the Senate.
Why Bush was able to loose 800,000 jobs in one month alone. So where were you when Bush was crashing the economy?
More to the point, the chart shows that the jobs situation has actually been improving for well over a year now. Not as good as I would like, but not too bad either.
Fuck Goldman Sachs and all the other banksters.
The lot of them should be in jail.
The Boner should just pass his budget and send it on to the Senate. There is nothing to stop him.
Yeah, let’s fix things by balancing the budget by:
Killing Social Security
Killing Medicare
Killing Medicaid
That will sure help the seniors a lot, I bet you.