For those of you offended by the “hypocrite fish” (which by the way, I think was intended to ridicule hypocrites, not Christians), I’m sure you’ll enjoy this new holiday music video by comedienne Sarah Silverman: “Give The Jew Girl Toys”
(Thanks to Eli Sanders of Slog for the tip.)
Well, if they wanted to just ridicule hypocrites, why use a well known christian symbol?
It was clear there was a point being made about christian hypocrites.
If you want to argue the validity of that point, fine. I don’t. But the magnet doesnt leave much doubt where the focus was.
I’d say that it was pointed at a certain group of Christians. Everyone knows who I’m talking about tho’, so I’m not gonna worry about it too much (hint: its the ones that are hypocrites)
This getting outraged over parody fishes is SO 10 years ago. I’d say the ‘hypocrite’ fish is substantially less offensive than the darwin fish humping the normal fish. And much much newer too.
Whole thing reeks of ‘motivational manufactured misdirected’ rage.
So Goldy,let’s get this straight….
If the republican party started selling, say, refrigerator magnets of, for example, A Jew being thrown into a an oven with the words, ” the holocaust is an overhyped excuse”, you’d find the humor in that?
Goldy. Perhaps a trip to downtown Detroit at 2 AM for your daughter? Not a Republican around within miles, and she could meet lots of Democrat “Tookies”. It would be a nice experience for a teenaged Jewish girl. [hehe]
I think the humor magnets and fish parodies are fine. I have seen some amusing ones, as well as amusing answers to them from the christians.
But for it to be on the state democratic site is a bit overboard as it suggests a DNC position, which they do not want. They dont want to alienate the christians in their own party by mocking them unfairly.
Berendt did the right thing in pulling it and apologizing. On the official site, it was out of line.
1
It’s been my experience that people who advertise their Christianity the loudest are those least likely to behave like Christians. So, yes, I think the term “hypocrite” is apropo in those cases.
I cannot believe you people are making ecuses for this.
It was an asshole maneuver to put the items for sale.
End of subject
@ 5
As an active local Seattle Dem, I agree. Bad taste.
prr: of course it was dumb, and in bad taste, and, well dumb.
The thing is, he pulled it immediately, and apologized. What else do you want?
Is there anything they could do now to assauge your anger?
He did not apologize, he said, I’m sorry if anyone was offended by it, there’s a big difference.
This coming from the same guy who broke down in tears at a newsconference about being caught with a corrupt election system…..
what amazes me most about it is how stupid it is. I can see why tin-hatters would say it was a republican conspiracy, because any dem putting htat up would have to be a grade-a moron (or a plant).
I mean, seriously, I”m flogging the dead horse, but its inconcievably stupid!
I repeat. The magnet was a good idea. Most so-called Christians ARE IN FACT hypocrites. Fuck em. I am going to find that vendor and open my own website selling those magnets. We need to point out how the “pro life” Christians are usually the front and center freaks calling for executions at every prison in America. Fuck Christians in the ass for all I care.
Is there anything they could do now to assauge your anger?
Yes, come out an say it was wrong to put it on the site and we have fired the person who made the decision to post it for sale
He did not apologize, he said, I’m sorry if anyone was offended by it, there’s a big difference.
Explain this BIG difference.
This coming from the same guy who broke down in tears at a newsconference about being caught with a corrupt election system…..
Which of course is a total lie, and thus makes no sense whatsoever.
explanation,
He’s not aplogixing for the action, he’s saying if you are upset by this, he’s sorry that you are upset.
What part isn’t true about his crying?
The corrupt election system or his breaking down like an old woman?
The man needs a penis transplant, he’s been feminized by the democratic party
GREGOIRE’S APPROVAL RATINGS CLIMB
In Survey USA’s June 2005 poll, Gov. Gregoire — whose popularity took a hit from the relentless GOP smear machine — stood at 34% approve/58% disapprove with 8% undecided.
Five months later, in Survey USA’s November poll, Gregoire’s numbers had moved up 10 points — she’s now at 44% approve/49% disapprove with 7% undecided.
Hmmm … that’s 2% a month. Let’s see, it’s 35 months to her re-election in 2008 … 35 x 2% … it appears that in November 2008 Gregoire’s rating will be 114% approve/minus 21% disapprove.
The rightys probably will spin this into Gregoire getting 120% of the vote, but since that’s obviously statistical impossible, my prediction for the 2008 election result is Gregoire 100%, Rossi 0%.
Hey Stefan — I can play with statistics too, and I see why you do it — it’s fun!!! :D :D :D
left turn @ 12,
Yea, what hypocrites the christians are….
Imagine, wanting to kill convicted murderers but not innocent children. What hypocrites.
It’s not like killing babies and then crting over scumbags being killed.
http://www.surveyusa.com/clien.....4e08492815
BTW, Survey USA is a Republican outfit.
I’m wondering when the jewish and islamic ridcule item will come up for sale? Right around the Holiday time, you know you all need stocking stuffers, buy a couple for Mom and Dad, or heck any combination of either…:)…….and if this had been the Rebulicans, I’m sure Queen Christine, would have rounded them up and had them reeducated for sure.
my hasn’t this turned ugly.
Considering that he could have claimed it was a conspiracy or a fake, (and weren’t a couple people saying they didnt trust the report of it here a few days ago), I think he took fairly responsible action for his party.
He could have just said oops. he could have just said ha made ya look!!
I dont expect hand wringing, sack cloth and ashes type of remorse.
If you expect more well, ok. Maybe they will send you a free blue state ribbon…..But i thinkl the issue for must of us is fairly simple.
It was dumb, tacky and stupid. it’s been fixed.
sven…..it was NOT just dumb and tacky. can you imagine the outrage if a republican site had put up something that was as intolerant as that fish was …to jews? my god….the uproar would have been heard four states away. and with justification.
this was not an oops, this was not a mistake…..this is HOW THEY ACTUALLY THINK AND FEEL.
yup….it’s a thinker……….
remember that in the next election.
sven, prr, et al
More to the point, this didn’t happen as some expression of hostility by some lone whacko. While Berendt didn’t place the ad, he and others (goldy too) have created a culture of religious intolerance.
If you were 23 years old, an atheist, went to Evergreen, working for the Dems, you would have no clue this kind of thing is wrong and bad…
christmasghost, please. Quit trying to give yourself something to be outraged over. It was idiocy. It was wrong on multiple levels… But you’re trying to use it in some kind of bizarre “This is my chance to turn Christian Democrats Republican!” scheme. Its not gonna happen, and it makes you look like a fool.
“creating a culture of religious intolerance”?? from YOU??
IRONY
You guys are so busy trying to make this into a political issue… so focused on getting those votes no matter what the cost… Its pathetically clear that you know at this point that you have nothing to stand on with the issues, so you have to hatemonger…. you know
Oh there is no doubt it was an intentional act, someone did it…but it was also a mistake in that it shouldnt have been done. The mistake was fixed. hopefully whoever was so ignorant and insensitive was handed his hat, but that not up to me to decide.
If they had not removed it and told the critics to suck wind, i would feel different.
They did though, so I am trying to apply a realistic attitude. Sure, I can play the cynical game too and say he is sorry…he got caught. So what. How does that help. Should I condemn all democrats or the party as a whole now? I already lean conservative, no secret there, so this hasn’t changed me.
I know people like Left Turn love stuff like this, and he would likely paint the magnet on his forehead if he thought it would piss more christians off.
I also see Windie, with whom I have disagreed frequently, standing up and saying it was dumb. That says something.
Belltowner was nice enough to post that also. he could have said Get over it!
I am a little more interested in results.
Maybe the outrage against conservative would have been different, but who cares? I cant exist my whole life in that kind of speculation.
The fish? Bad taste for a party site, and not even funny like the darwin fish.
Making a federal case out of it? Very bad taste.
In good taste, here’s a nugget of Holiday Cheer from the very Christian New Donkey:
“It’s especially absurd to see some conservative Protestants joining this self-pitying display, given the nurturance they have long enjoyed from America’s liberal and pluralistic traditions. Indeed, those among them whose roots are in the Calvinist Reformed tradition seem to have forgotten that the celebration of Christmas itself was illegal in Calvin’s Geneva, John Knox’s Scotland, and even in Puritan New England, and frowned upon by many Presbyterians until well into the twentieth century.”
And for over 90% of the last 2,000 years, literalist fundamentalism would have impressed sincere believers as a laugh-inducing but mean-spirited parody of their religion … IOW, as the height of bad taste.
Roger @ 20: “BTW, Survey USA is a Republican outfit.”
And KCREALS is run by Democrats. Your point is…???
@ everybody
The “fish” has long been fooled around with, such as the Darwin fish. I think a flaming fish with the word “hypocrite” is a bit much. But no doubt the krazy kristians at AFA, Dobson’s brown shirts, they all go nuts and then send out a call for fundraising. I’m so tired of fake outrage.
30,
Oh it isnt fake. They are sincere in their outrage.
It may be misplaced, but its very sincere.
Mike Webb is very sincere in his outrage at election 2000.
ChristmasGhost@23: Great Point. Windie is full of air on this one. This was absolutely tasteless and a direct attack on Christianity. A fish with flames projects burning in hell. Anytime and I mean anytime a Republican says something remotely controversial, Goldy is here to PRINT IT! Anytime a democrat says/does something directly confrontational it is excused. The ASSHeads turn a blind eye because the HeadASS chooses to ignore it. Now in hindsight some of the ASSHeads here saying the fish was in bad taste is amusing. But the most egregious and vocal of the ASSHeads are missing in action on this thread. You know who you are and so do we.
ChristmasGhost@23: Great Point. Windie is full of air on this one. This was absolutely tasteless and a direct attack on Christianity. A fish with flames projects burning in hell. Anytime and I mean anytime a Republican says something remotely controversial, Goldy is here to PRINT IT! Anytime a democrat says/does something directly confrontational it is excused. The ASSHeads turn a blind eye because the HeadASS chooses to ignore it. Now in hindsight some of the ASSHeads here saying the fish was in bad taste is amusing. But the most egregious and vocal of the ASSHeads are missing in action on this thread. You know who you are and so do we.
33-34
It’s Goldy’s Blog.
he’s a liberal.
He is obviously going to slant his writing to his beleifs. Big shock there. Conservative blogs do the same thing.
Big surprise…if you don’t like the flavor if the conversation or the tone, I’d suggest getting a thicker skin, or moving somewhere else.
I am a moderate and try, though not always successfully, to appreciate all ideas. The liberal blinders worn here is frustrating, but again, read the sign over the door. its not a shock.
Roger,
I will bet you ONE pitcher of beer for you and your buds at your liberal drinking place that she does not top 80%.
I will bet you TWO pitchers of beer for you and your buds at your liberal drinking place that she does not top 70%.
I will bet you THREE pitchers of beer for you and your buds at your liberal drinking place that she does not top 60%.
I will bet you pitchers of beer (all night) for you and your buds at your liberal drinking place that she does not win!
You can donate an equal value to the Toys for Tots in Seattle for 2008 if I win!
Wanna bet?
Sven, you are right about the sign over the door. The double post is due to two network links and both stalled. I stopped it and restarted it. Sorry Goldy about the double post.
I think you should give a Jew girl a purple finger to celebrate voting in Iraq!!!
Goldy,
Perhaps a trip to downtown Detroit at 2 AM for your daughter? Not a Republican around within miles, and she could meet lots of Democrat “Tookies”. It would be a nice experience for a teenaged Jewish girl. [hehe]
Man, I would not want to be you. JCH may have plenty of redeeming kwalities (he does put the “K” in quality, eh?), but to go this low makes me retch…very similar to Harry Poon/Headless Lucy/Apache Fog…
7
prr: it was an individual action by a rogue employee acting without the boss’s knowledge or consent. End of story.
15
“The man needs a penis transplant, he’s been feminized by the democratic party”
prr – This remarl about Paul Berendt offends me. Please say you’re sorry, then fire yourself.
29
My point is, if Gregoire has climbed 10% in a GOP poll, she’s probably doing even better in real polls.
33-34
I assume you trollfucks came to this liberal blog because you’re looking for a fight? Goldy’s job — and my hobby — is to accomodate you. We don’t want you to go away disappointed. We don’t even want you to go away.
36
Interesting proposition, but I can’t remember anything for 3 weeks much less 3 years, so how about bringing this up again in, say, September 2008?
BTW, it’s a cheap bet for you, because my beer consumption at DL to date is zero. I don’t drink.
I can hardly wait for 2008! I wanna see Rossi run on a platform “we wuz robbed!” and see if that works as well for him as it did for Kerry. Or Rossi can try this: He’s for less roads, less education, less consumer protection, locking up fewer criminals, and using L & I taxes to pay for his legal challenge if he loses again.
In other news, I see the government is spying on anti-war groups. They can’t catch Osama, so they’ve lowered their sights. Maybe they can catch some Quakers and 85-year-old hippies.
RR @42,
I can hardly wait for 2008! I wanna see Rossi run on a platform “we wuz robbed!” and see if that works as well for him as it did for Kerry.
At least you admit the flaw of Kerry’s 2004 campaign…
44
Hey, things are tough all over. It’s hard to get good help these days. As Mike Chertoff knows all too well.
windie…….you are so wrong on so many levels as usual. but ,just for laughs i will show you how it could work the other way.
anything tom delay might have done was “just poor judgement, not from the whole party,and he was kidding…it was just an oversight”
there…. does that make you think that tom delay is okay now?
no???
“You guys are so busy trying to make this into a political issue”
this IS apolitical issue. you couldn’t get more political if you tried. it was on the washington state dem. site. what do you think that is? a garden club?
and sven…don’t think for a moment that you can speak for true conservatives. i have seen very little moderate or conservative anything from you.you are a fence sitter. period. and you know what dante said about them………
and roger…” it was an individual action by a rogue employee acting without the boss’s knowledge or consent. End of story.”
and exactly how would you know that?
talk about total bullshit.
it was exactly the opposite and you know it. you just think that if you say that often enough….everything will be peachy.
just like goldy thinks that he can continue to be such a hypocrite [those republicans are vile…ooops, my peeps did something wrong..i better keep my head down and not call them on it]….and still become a writer for a major newspaper. it isn’t going to happen. they are full up with BS artists now…trust me.
and you know? i am not even a christian and i found it completely appalling. i guess that’s because i actually have M-O-R-A-L-S.
WHAT’S WRONG IS WRONG. I DON’T CARE WHAT SIDE DOES IT.
some of you should start thinking that way for a change.
it’s called integrity.
Today’s Word – Hypocrites
or thehim……B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T..
that would be more fitting of the democratic “party” in washington state.
no war on christmas huh guys?
just on the christians.
thehim @47
Very good, but I am not on the same page. You selectively try the nutcase jobs of my party. Some deserve the claims you press, but I do not see anything that is damning, other than the usual party hypocrisy you amplify.
I could amplify the same for the Dems…
Ghost,
and sven…don’t think for a moment that you can speak for true conservatives. i have seen very little moderate or conservative anything from you.you are a fence sitter. period. and you know what dante said about them………
I am an independent moderate, a socially conservative fiscal moderate to be exact.
I am independent because I see little in either organized party to inspire my loyalty. I wont affiliate with parties.
And for the record, I have never suggested I speak for anyone but myself. To imply otherwise is disengenuous.
For what it’s worth I think the hotheaded attitude of the extreme folks on either end of the political spectrum is immature and wasteful, unless you just want to have a flame war.
You let this get way too personal.
Do you think your denouncing me or anyone else here will accomplish anything? Do you think that your polorization achieves anything? Do you think any of your comments will actually change one of these liberals people at all?
I come here because I enjoy the debate and like to see things from both sides. It aids in my writing and my understanding.
I give my opinion when and where I feel compelled, and if I think an issue is not worth it, I say that, or stay out of it.
If that doesnt work for ya, if I am not conservative enough for you, sorry.
S’up to you, G-man..
I will bet you pitchers of beer (all night) for you and your buds at your liberal drinking place that she does not win!
You’re faded.
“If I had my way, I would see Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell strapped down to electric chairs and lit up like Christmas trees. The better to light the way for American Democracy and American Freedom!” — Democratic Talk Radio’s Stephen Crockett
i thought you would all like to see this classic quote. such tolerance.
and sven……i take intolerance of people’s religions and race very personally. because it is WRONG.
i am sorry that you do not share that feeling….i think ,personally, that’s what is wrong with society today. so many people have the attitude that “it doesn’t affect me…so what the hell”
remember when seattle watched a young man get beaten to death by thugs because they didn’t want to get involved?
i don’t ,for a moment, think that i would change anyone’s mind. i don’t have to get something for myself to do the right thing. you obviously do.[“It aids in my writing and my understanding.”]
i would rather go “on the record” as doing the right thing than sucking up to rotten people. and the people that put that fish up are rotten people.
but ,hey man, whatever helps YOU get through YOUR day, right?
the seattle mantra….ME ME ME ME ME ME ME……
46
NOT SO FAST, Happyholidaysghost!
The fish magnet was merely bad taste.
What Tom DeLay did was a crime!
The fish magnet wasn’t done by Berendt or the party. It was the work of an employee acting on his own.
What Tom DeLay did was done by Tom DeLay.
Your comparison doesn’t fly.
christmasghost @52
i don’t ,for a moment, think that i would change anyone’s mind. i don’t have to get something for myself to do the right thing. you obviously do.[“It aids in my writing and my understanding.”]
If I were to take the point you describe here, I should merely slit my wrists and be done. I adhere to principles defined by my political and religious beliefs. It is not a matter of whether I believe my “audience” takes my points seriously (I am under no illusions), but if I am unable to frame a cohesive argument, that is indeed to my shame.
Sven is under the same compunction, IMO. Let him do as he wishes.
@41
Well, we can both do charity donations then, and I will remind you, providing I am still on this planet and still have a computer. I may be crazy by then, with a grandson due next week! I’ve been suffering from CRS for awhile now so you are doing better than me with 3 weeks!
52
Katherine Harris is a racist pig who disenfranchised over 50,000 black voters. Ken Blackwell is a dangerous subversive who sabotaged our democracy. Is 60 seconds in the electric chair a proportional punishment? Naw; I’ll settle for them both going to Hell in the afterlife.
@45
Michael Chertoff has to know what a good person is before he can find one!
For the record, I don’t think Crockett’s comment is any more outrageous or over the top than when Bush, Cheney, or trollfucks call anti-war liberals Osama sympathizers. Furthermore, if your side can engage in vile name calling, why can’t our side do it too? Why should Republicans have a monopoly on vile name calling? You guys want a monopoly on every fucking thing. Screw you! In case you haven’t noticed yet, when you dish out to us, we’re gonna dish back to you.
‘Cuse me Rupert Wabbet. How was dem blacks gots disenfranchised again? Since we gots famly in dem parts of suthern floreeda, how yous knows all abodt dat? Cum on now Meester Wabbetg, tell dis black man how yous knows all dis? Frum Jesse Hijackson? Al Tawana Sharpton? Pleese tells me how yous gits dis infumashun? I tought mys peeps bossed dem cities excepbt Miami, which is bossed be de cubanos. Give me da clue wabbet, cuz I’s don no dem fax you got in de pate, bein de smardt lawyers type!
Now we’s gots a smart brotha in Ohio. Mr Blackwell, he’s no’s us on your side control all dem Ohio cities. He no’s that he has no control over dem mayers, city councel peeps, county councel peeps. So give me da clue wabbet, cuz I’s don no dem fax you got in de pate, bein de smardt lawyers type!
In your words Roger Rabbit, “You lost, get over it!”
About the fish: I don’t like religious symbols being used as political statements, I think it is tasteless and ignorant. . And…I don’t like political symbols being used as religious/political statements, waving the flag, while war mongering and claiming to be a Christian. . I don’t like anything about this marriage of politics and religion. The fish WAS stupid. It doesn’t even make a clear point; There’s no way to tell to whom it is directed. The Republicans, in their martyred vanity, insist it is directed at them, because they’re the new “Christian” “minority” don’t you know! Their response to it, is all about false passion and only incidentally about Christianity. Anything to be the center of attention.
That said, the GOP’s sole focus over the last decade has been to politicize Christianity – to the detriment of Christianity, and certainly to the detriment of this country. The GOP IS the party of false patriotism,false promies, false principles, and false religion. The fish is stupid, and that is all it is. But it isn’t anywhere near as destructive as Pat Robertson or the 700 club, and it doesn’t come close to the bullying evangelism of the politico/christians known as the GOP.
60
I realize we lost and racist yahoos like you are running the country, pudcheeks. That’s why I blog. I wouldn’t spend my time doing this if things were peachy keen.
belltowner@30
Wow, took 30 comments to get to the Nazi allusion. Only 13 on the other post; you guys sleeping on the job?
I’d say that it was pointed at a certain group of Christians. Everyone knows who I’m talking about tho’, so I’m not gonna worry about it too much (hint: its the ones that are hypocrites)
“This getting outraged over parody fishes is SO 10 years ago. I’d say the ‘hypocrite’ fish is substantially less offensive than the darwin fish humping the normal fish. And much much newer too. Whole thing reeks of ‘motivational manufactured misdirected’ rage.
Comment by windie— 12/14/05 @ 3:17 pm”
Ahhhhh windie BAD TRY===NO SALE!!
The issue here is that the Washington State Democrat Party would sell these malicious things on their website. These CLOWNS have offended more than 1/2 of there own membership as well as outrage folks in the middle. Berendt’s lameass semi-apology did more harm than good….and my guess is his face will be rubbed in it ad infinitum!! A FISH FACIAL!!!
The LEFTIST PINHEADED CLOWNS just can’t help themselves! Give ’em a shovel and a bucket of shit and they’ll wind up in China with the bucket on their heads!
I knew we could count on most of our resident CLOWNS to chime in and try to make excuses. I won’t even attempt to come up with something as offensive…..but even if someone did, the issue is still that it was on the Washington Democratic Party website.
Christian-Haters who got caught in the act. Trying to defend something like this proves what Hater’s some of you are.
Thank you for expressing your Hate!
windbag sez”
“You guys are so busy trying to make this into a political issue… so focused on getting those votes no matter what the cost… Its pathetically clear that you know at this point that you have nothing to stand on with the issues, so you have to hatemonger…. you know
Comment by windie— 12/14/05 @ 4:29 pm”
windie continues to dig deeper. Make this a “political issue”???
You F*CKING IDIOT, the Dems put it on their POLITICAL website!!!!
You are the CLOWN of CLOWNS windie!!
Keep ’em coming CLOWN!
HEY PUDDYBUD!!!
On the thread about “The war on
ChristmasJews,You said
You have never supplied ONE example of a leftist “supporting the idiot Iranian President regarding the destuction of Israel”.”
Were you lying, my friend? Were you stating bullshit that is in fact not true?
Were you shaming Jesus with your tongue?
C’mon, my good freind PuddyBud, provide ANY link of a leftist on HA posting support The Iranina President reagarding the destruction of Israel.
Just ONE, PuddyBud.
Or were you LYING
PuddyBud, your fans are waiting for you to put me in my place!
Post that quote of a poster on HA supporting the Iranian President regarding the destruction of Israel!
I know you can do it!
Your fan,
Donnageddon
Ho Ho Ho Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy holidays and all that goodwill shit to all of you! :)
65: Wrong again Roger. I use ebonics to prove my point, which I see is missed by all that schooling you received, you passed on horse sense. You love to decry the voting injustices perpetrated on my people. You have NO COTTON PICKING CLUE ABOUT MY PEOPLE. You read newspaper accounts that afterward are proven incorrect. You find out that problems in Florida was bad preparation in 2000 and in Ohio in 2004.
You receive your mis-information from the “Reverends” Jackson and Sharpton. Democrats control the cities, so how can disenfranchisement occur except by your side’s own incompetence? Admit this and I’ll agree with you.
Regarding the “Reverends”, ask each of them did they send their children to public school? Uhhh, no! They lived the good life and have no clue how poor people live. Oh, and I love the “you Republicans do act contrite or Christian-like” arguments from your side. Hello! I don’t remember a “contrite” Jesse when he was caught boffing Karen Stanford or Al when he was caught in the Tawana Brawley lie! So stop all of this holier-than-thou attitudes when your Bible is collecting dust. My wife rebound my Bible last year for my birthday because it was falling apart. Roger, can you quote a Bibical verse besides John 11:35 – “Jesus Wept” or John 3:16 – Because rainbowHead in the 70s and 80s was at major sporting events and you looked up what he was holding on that placard? Do you have a favorite memory verse? Do you know why King David danced in his underwear and his wife was barren? Dees any of the Wabbit cotillion own a Bible? Can you use those “powerful” hind legs to turn the thin pages?
They rush in for the photo-op like they did for “Tookie”. It was very telling that Hijackson had no clue on the names of “Tookie’s ” four victims.
Your pink bodied use of ebonics aside, my friend, PuddyBud, but can oyu provide
ONE SINGLE QUOTE
of as leftist on HA “supporting the idiot Iranian President regarding the destuction of Israel”.â€
I Axe you that!
I want a burning hypocrite fish for Christmas—- and I hope I offend everyone!
PuddyBud, I hate to think of your wife sleeping next to a public liar, let alone her accepting a public liar’s penis in her vagina, so please put me in my place!
Please provide a sinlge example of a leftist “supporting the idiot Iranian President regarding the destuction of Israel”, as you stated on the thread The War on
ChristmasJews.I know you can do it!
Puddy-
The more I hear these white liberals talk about racism the more Iam convinced that they are the decedants of the southern plantation owner. If you are black you better fall in line with them and their stooges (Hyjackson,Sharton) or everything you have will be taken from you. You are a slave to the democratic party.
Hey RUFUS, you can make silly and completely unsubstantiated claims about liberal racism (an oxymoron if there ever was), but you cannot deny that PuddyBud is a Lying Kool Aid drinking Fool!
Is it true that every time you say “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas” an angel in Heaven gets AIDS?
Marks @ 51
Very good, but I am not on the same page. You selectively try the nutcase jobs of my party. Some deserve the claims you press, but I do not see anything that is damning, other than the usual party hypocrisy you amplify.
I could amplify the same for the Dems…
Of course you could. No party has a monopoly on hypocrisy (a great example would be people like Barbra Streisand and her notorious NIMBYism on environmental issues).
The problem I have with the fish controversy is one that I’ve called out in the past. The right has whined for years about left-wing political correctness, but have often times been just as bad. That was the core point to the post.
Please provide a sinlge example of a leftist “supporting the idiot Iranian President regarding the destuction of Israel”, as you stated on the thread The War on Christmas Jews.
I know you can do it!
I know one thing for sure. If Iran ever gets a nuclear missile pointed at Israel and there is a democrap in office, I would kiss all our Jewish friends good bye. Trusting you coward chicken shits to protect anything would be suicide. You donks showed your true colors in IRAQ and Vietnam. I hope we never get to that point.
Marks @ 51
Let me try this again. The filter swallowed my last post.
Very good, but I am not on the same page. You selectively try the nutcase jobs of my party. Some deserve the claims you press, but I do not see anything that is damning, other than the usual party hypocrisy you amplify.
I could amplify the same for the Dems…
Sure you could. Dems have been hypocritical too (Streisand and her legendary NIMBYism comes to mind). The point of my post is that many on the right scream bloody murder about political correctness, but are just as offended by the things that matter to them but seem trivial to someone like me.
Marks @ 51
Let me try this again. The filter swallowed my last post.
I could amplify the same for the Dems…
Sure, of course you could. The point of my post is that many on the right scream bloody murder about political correctness, but are just as offended by the things that matter to them but seem trivial to someone like me.
or thehim……B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T..
that would be more fitting of the democratic “party†in washington state.
no war on christmas huh guys?
just on the christians.
No. Not a war on Christians. A war on hypocritical Christians.
79
make silly and completely unsubstantiated claims….
Why would I do that. We get enough of that from folks talking about Ohio 2004 and Diebold. We don’t need anymore.
A war on hypocritical Christians.
Comment by thehim— 12/14/05 @ 10:19 pm
Hypocritical in what way. In the way a democrats talk about wanting fair elections??? A democrat beleiving in the sanctitiy of life???? Like democrats giving to the poor????? You mean extremely hypocritical.
RUFUS showing far more bravery and honesty than PuddYbud could ever, stupidly said
We showed our “tue colors” with Iraq and Vietnam?
Iraq, no WMD, no connection to Al Queda. Waste of lives and money, when North Korea and Iran were always a more worrisome problem. WE NEVER should have invaded Iraq! IT posed NO THREAT to us! It is the chickenhawk Repugs that diverted attention form the real problems. RUFUS, you and your ilk are THE PROBLEM!
Vietnam. No Domino reaction, now are trade partners, 50,000 dead for NOTHING! Rufus, you and your ilk are the PROBLEM!
Ohio, Florida and Diebold? RUFUS, you and your ilk are the stain on democracy!
And PuddyBud, can you provide ONE qoute from a leftist HA poster “supporting the idiot Iranian President regarding the destuction of Israel”, as you stated on the thread The War on Christmas Jews.
PuddyBud, do you not think that Jesus is watching you now? Why have you lied so much? Why do you defend so much blood, and claim to be a Christian?
I know one thing for sure. If Iran ever gets a nuclear missile pointed at Israel and there is a democrap in office, I would kiss all our Jewish friends good bye. Trusting you coward chicken shits to protect anything would be suicide. You donks showed your true colors in IRAQ and Vietnam. I hope we never get to that point.
What on earth are you talking about? Bush has been the greatest thing to ever happen to the Iranians who want to destroy Israel. The Iraq War effectively killed the reform movement, which was rooted in a belief that the United States could be trusted. By pissing off Putin over the Iraq invasion (which he advised us not to do because it would make his fight against Chechen rebels more difficult), he’s now happily helping Iran build up their arsenal. The Europeans are even more useless than normal in trying to sweet-talk them into disarming, mainly because we’re fighting with them instead of playing bad cop to their good cop.
I have relatives who live in Tel Aviv, and their lives are in greater danger today from the Iranian (and the Syrians, and the swelling al-Qaeda ranks in Iraq) because of President Bush. Why do you think Ariel Sharon is abandoning the Israeli far-right now? Why do you think the Iranian government openly expressed hope that Bush would be re-elected?
He’s made the political climate of the Middle East absolutely treacherous for the Israelis.
Hypocritical in what way. In the way a democrats talk about wanting fair elections??? A democrat beleiving in the sanctitiy of life???? Like democrats giving to the poor????? You mean extremely hypocritical.
First of all, you might want to read my post from comment #49 to see the context of that statement.
Second, as I said to Marks, there are definitely examples of Democrats being hypocritical. You picked some rather poor examples though. Democrats not wanting fair elections? Please, what is this, Chicago in 1965?
Democrats not giving to the poor? What are you talking about? I thought they DID give to the poor, and that’s why they were bad for the economy? When did that one change?
No domino reaction because Regan took care of the commie bastards in the 80’s. Those commies would be wrapping themselves around our necks by now if wasn’t for him but that is a different story. Vietnam… who was in charge for most of the Vietnam war(it wasn’t the Repubs). No wonder we lost. Nixon had no choice after Johnson fucked things up.
The more I hear these white liberals talk about racism the more Iam convinced that they are the decedants of the southern plantation owner. If you are black you better fall in line with them and their stooges (Hyjackson,Sharton) or everything you have will be taken from you. You are a slave to the democratic party.
Hey Rufus, I think I’ll take this opportunity to remind you that Bush’s approval rating among African-American voters is still in the single digits. The chances of you understanding why is probably in the single digits as well.
Democrats not giving to the poor? What are you talking about? I thought they DID give to the poor, and that’s why they were bad for the economy? When did that one change?
Comment by thehim— 12/14/05 @ 10:39 pm
Anyone can reach in their neighbors pocket and give to the poor (via taxes) but to give from your own pocket is truely giving.
94
Didnt he get something like 15- 17 percent when he was elected last time? I know most black people dont vote for republican and that is a shame. I truely believe we offer something better than what black people get from the democrats. Oh well… at least the numbers are rising.
No domino reaction because Regan took care of the commie bastards in the 80’s. Those commies would be wrapping themselves around our necks by now if wasn’t for him but that is a different story.
Although Reagan deserves some credit for how he handled the collapsing Soviet Union, his actions, from the invasion of Lebanon, his arming of Saddam, and his deals with the Iranians, set up much of the mess we’re dealing with in the Middle East today.
He foolishly believed that invading Lebanon would lead to having a strong ally in the Middle East, but instead it left the country vulnerable and it fell under Syrian control. He thought that building up a strongman in Baghdad would give us leverage over Middle East oil. They were warned not to do it, but did it anyway, and eventually regretting making him so powerful. In Iran, the Reagan Administration appeased the Iranian government to avoid looking weak in front of the American people, which ended in Iran-Contra. And of course, this is not to mention that the Reagan Administration armed the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, who used that training to set up terrorist training camps that we had to dismantle after they killed 3000 Americans.
RUFUS “Anyone can reach in their neighbors pocket and give to the poor (via taxes)”
No, only tax dodging Republicans reach in their neighbor’s pocket (and their children and grnadchildren) via taxes to give to the disadvantaged.
Democrats give directly form their own pocket, because the realize that we are all a part of the same country.
Anyone can reach in their neighbors pocket and give to the poor (via taxes) but to give from your own pocket is truely giving.
Where do you get the idea that Democrats give less to charity than Republicans? Oh, and when Democrats raise taxes, they have to pay those taxes too.
BTW, PuddyBud, can you provide ONE qoute from a leftist HA poster “supporting the idiot Iranian President regarding the destuction of Israel”, as you stated on the thread The War on
ChristmasJews.Anyone can reach in their neighbors pocket and give to the poor (via taxes) but to give from your own pocket is truely giving.
That has a good ring to it. That should be on a Thank you card when someone donates to a charity. Lot of truth in it too.
Where do you get the idea that Democrats give less to charity than Republicans? Oh, and when Democrats raise taxes, they have to pay those taxes too.
One study show that out of the top 20 charitable states 18 are red (republican) states. I would also agrue that most of the private donations coming into charites are from mostly religous folks who tend to lean mostly right. I can not name you a study off hand but I am sure there are ones out there proving my point. Well time to hit the sack.
Didnt he get something like 15- 17 percent when he was elected last time? I know most black people dont vote for republican and that is a shame. I truely believe we offer something better than what black people get from the democrats. Oh well… at least the numbers are rising.
Actually, they’re not. In October, Bush’s approval rating among African-Americans was at 2%. The reason is simple. It was Katrina. And I don’t think it was entirely Bush’s fault either. I think that the attitude conveyed on talk radio, that those who were stranded without food were to blame for their situation, is what has convinced them that Republicans don’t care about them. It could take years for the Republican Party to earn that trust back.
hey lets not forget that dump fuck cater that asshole cant even grow peanuts the only sane one was billy there is something to be said for a man who pisses on an airplane tire.
RUFUS “I can not name you a study off hand but I am sure there are ones out there proving my point. Well time to hit the sack.”
Yeah, sleep tight with all that bullshit dancing in your head.
RUFUS
“Anyone can reach in their neighbors pocket and give to the poor (via taxes) but to give from your own pocket is truely giving.”
Ummmm…no. So called “truly giving” is doublespeak for “tax writeoff,” “build the charitible portfolio,” and “shove Jesus down people’s throats.”
yo
You truly are the most sincere and coherent conservative posting on HA!
You should be proud!
One study show that out of the top 20 charitable states 18 are red (republican) states. I would also agrue that most of the private donations coming into charites are from mostly religous folks who tend to lean mostly right. I can not name you a study off hand but I am sure there are ones out there proving my point. Well time to hit the sack.
I have seen that study, and you’re right. When you count church donations, it definitely puts many red states at the top. But giving to a church is not entirely the same as giving to the poor. If you look at Red Cross donations or other more direct aid groups, I guarantee you you’ll see that it’s pretty even between Democrats and Republicans.
yo @ 103
“hey lets not forget that dump fuck cater that asshole cant even grow peanuts the only sane one was billy there is something to be said for a man who pisses on an airplane tire. “
In the spirit of the holidays, I’ll choose to believe that you were smashed out of your gord while attempting to write this. I simply refuse to believe someone with access to the internet can be so dumbfoundingly uneducated.
don here is something coherent for you go fuck yourself.
yo @ 109
“don here is something coherent for you go fuck yourself.”
I’m sorry, yo…this is not particularly coherent.
P.S. Are you suggesting my name is Don? Or were you addressing someone else. Just curious.
yo,
Nevermind…I see you were addressing Donnageddon, who reacted to your effluvia the same way that I responded.
RUFUS @ 96 and thehim @ 102,
“Didnt he get something like 15- 17 percent when he was elected last time?”
In the 2004 election African Americans made up 11% of the voting population (or, more accurately, the exit polls). Bush got 11% of their vote, Kerry got 88% of their vote and Nader got 0%.
dj 105
“So called “truly giving” is doublespeak for “tax writeoff,” “build the charitible portfolio,” and “shove Jesus down people’s throats.”
“Ummm”…You seem to be saying that charity is a selfish trait of evil Christians? You have problems, dj, if you actually believe that crap. Get out in the real world.
thehim @ 107
“I have seen that study, and you’re right. When you count church donations, it definitely puts many red states at the top. But giving to a church is not entirely the same as giving to the poor.”
Indeed. In many Christian churches (and other religions as well), some percentage of ones wages are “extorted” by the church (tithing, for example). Most of that money goes to maintain the church and pay the salary of the minister/pastor/priest. That giving is, in essence, no more “charitable” than paying union dues.
Other charitable giving through religious organizations in some sense amounts to purchasing influence and access to potential converts on behalf of the religion. Many of the ends are laudable, but the giving is hardly pure charity.
Iran’s Ahmadinejad declares Holocaust is a myth
TEHRAN (Reuters) – Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Wednesday that the Holocaust was a myth, ramping up his rhetoric and triggering a fresh wave of international condemnation.
Last week Ahmadinejad first aired his doubts on the veracity of the Holocaust, in which six million Jews were killed by the Nazis. His comments drew a rebuke from the U.N. Security Council.
“They have fabricated a legend under the name ‘Massacre of the Jews’, and they hold it higher than God himself, religion itself and the prophets themselves,” he told a crowd in the southeastern city of Zahedan on Wednesday.
http://today.reuters.com/news/.....lated=true
Goldy you and your friends should revisit Seattle foreign Policy with Iran. The French approach may not work this time, and they love the Jews as much the Iranians do. The Christians might be you best bet in settling the problem, but you have to get the UN to buy into the plan. Now would be a good time to start by wishing everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I would not plan on any support from the Atheist now, or in the near future, they have a fear of death. They also have a phobia about following great leaders into dangerous missions, and they prefer hide when danger appears. Tonight the news channel now refers to Ahmadinejad as this century Adolf Hitler. Remember everyone believed Iraq had WMD’s except the folks in Seattle and let us not forget some of our Democrats went along with the story. Goldy do you believe we should do the same dance with Iran as we did with Iraq? Should we take the Democrats plan and relocate our selves back in the United States? Maybe we should listen to M Moore, you know tell a big lie long enough and everybody will believe in the lie. Goldy what is the truth did the Holocaust really happen? Now was it justified for the invasion of Iraq and could that plan neutralized the Iranians? I saw the big picture when I was in the desert in 2002, now you tell me what should be done today?
zip @ 113
“You seem to be saying that charity is a selfish trait of evil Christians?”
Nope…my statement was not specific to any religion. There are many forms of “charity” and stuff that goes through religious organizations is, but, one type. Also, I am not suggesting that any type of charity is evil (yep…Christian charity is mostly not evil, and is frequently good). What I am suggesting is that most charitable giving is not purly altrusitic. People usually get benefits for themselves or their social/cultural/religious community.
“You have problems, dj, if you actually believe that crap. Get out in the real world.”
Well…given that you completely mischaracterize what I was saying, my response is that I don’t believe what you attributed to my comment.
Right, dj, way to backtrack. I guess you never wrote “So called “truly giving” is doublespeak for…“shove Jesus down people’s throats.”” Just keep practicing that backstroke.
zip @ 118
“Right, dj, way to backtrack. I guess you never wrote “So called “truly giving” is doublespeak for…“shove Jesus down people’s throats.”” Just keep practicing that backstroke.”
Well, in my defense, I did post my comment @ 115 to thehim before I saw your comment. But, in fairness, perhaps I should add “shove Jesus, Allah, Buddah, Zeus, and the Flying Spagetti Monster, etc. down people’s throats.” After all, that kind of opportunity is the benefits of saving someone from starvation….
SpeWhere do you get the idea that Democrats give less to charity than Republicans? Oh, and when Democrats raise taxes, they have to pay those taxes too.
One study show that out of the top 20 charitable states 18 are red (republican) states. I would also agrue that most of the private donations coming into charites are from mostly religous folks who tend to lean mostly right. I can not name you a study off hand but I am sure there are ones out there proving my point. Well time to hit the sack.
Comment by RUFUS — 12/14/05 @ 11:05 pm
aking of “giving”, remember when Hillary deducted Bill’s used underwear as a tax deduction, or when Al Gore gave $431 in charity [deduction] on income of over 400 grand? Democrats: bull shit liars. These are the leaders of the “victim” redistribution everyone else’s wealth. NEVER THEIR OWN!!!!
Check out Judah Friedlander’s newly released holiday clip on his web site: http://www.judahfriedlander.com/video.html#
DonStuckONStupiddon: I will not provide any links for you. Every other time I have been accused of not having a link I prove it with two or three. Sorry not this time! Perform your own damn due diligence. This kid is not working for DonStuckASS!
Goldy,
Have you decended to the level of a propagandist? You are now beginning to lose your credibility by posting something like this then misrepresenting what it is.
Sara Silverman is what you would call a “secular jew” (just like you).
This is actually proof of my contention that secular jews really are ashamed of their heritage.
The following is another one of her creations that makes fun of Christians as well.
http://www.chron.com/disp/stor.....09114.html
“If Jesus were alive today, he would…”
By the way Goldy, Jesus is alive today and sitting at the right hand of God the Father.
An example of the mean spirited hatred of the “Anti Christmas” crowd.
http://www.wftv.com/news/5540774/detail.html
Puddy;
I did Don’s search for leftist HA posters supported the Iranians. and you’re just a lying sack of shit. That’s all Don wants everyone to know.
Hey you could do the September 2008 suprise and go plant one back in the threads.
@124
What else would you expect from the State of Florida? They kill their disabled, they have rape and kill little kids and they have been known to have sex with alligators!
Mrs Danw, Soccer Mom: Damn I have to show you how to search? Nope just changed my mind. Thanks for the sack of shit call. Nice of you to equate brown skin with shit. Really impressive little lady. If I was wrong, my side would call me on it like some others did back in June. I am not, repeat not going to find the link. How can one plant it back in the threads without the latest date and time being posted? Man you are as dumb as a brick! Did you husband marry you for your looks?
puddy: You’re insane. The above post is brilliant in its looniness.
You insult danw, you make an unsupported claim, you build a bizarre strawman insult (where the hell did you get the brown skin digression? Its not like thats a rare insult or something… Oh yeah, anything to discredit. Even insane lies)… you miss humor, too. All together a wonderful trainwreck of a post.
On the other hand, you do get one good joke in (‘my side would call me on it’ now thats a kneeslapper!)
As an militant Seattle Dem, I am buying a couple of dozen to superglue to SUV’s at my local megachurch. :)
I got your hypocrite right here …
“The wackos get their information through the Christian right, Christian radio, mail, the internet and telephone trees,” “Simply put, we want to bring out the wackos to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them.”
— Michael Scanlon ,memo, read into the public record at a hearing of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee.
BTW the hanging rudolph is hung in the manner a deer hunter would use to bleed it. And having lived in Rural NC, I have to say this is not the first reindeer hung by the Hocks I have seen done by rednecks after too much beer. Of course, where I grew up a party is not considered succesful unless the fire dept and the rescue squad show up at some point.
Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees, Matthew, Ch 23:
…Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, so practice and observe whatever they tell you–but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice.
They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.
Matthew, Ch 23:
They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others…”
“…The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves…”
“…Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!”
“…Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people’s bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, saying, `If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’
Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? “
roger@65………..”I realize we lost and racist yahoos like you are running the country, pudcheeks. That’s why I blog. I wouldn’t spend my time doing this if things were peachy keen.”
BLOG???? you think you are blogging? dear this isn’t blogging…this is “posting” on someone else’s blog…as in goldy’s.unless of course that was a freudian slip……..
thehim@86….”No. Not a war on Christians. A war on hypocritical Christians.”
and what? you get to decide who they are? and YOU think YOU are qualified to do that? wrong again………
besides…if you wanted to just get at “hypocritical” cristians why would you use a bumper sticker that will affect all who see it? kids…for instance.
isn’t this just more typical liberal “public-trainwreck” grandstanding? you want to disturb and upset as many people as possible at once like the children you are.
while being gutless cowards[paul berendt here….”it was just an oops”]…….
and this is what you call tolerance?
nop wonder you aren’t the party in power. with dean and hillary OUT there you should probably get used to it.
and goldy……..you are a hypocritical swine. you make stupid comments like this “House Ethics chair Richard “Doc” Mengele Hastings.”
mengele?
uh oh…here we go with “goldy the poor jew” again.
that’s okay goldy….we know you suffered the holocaust in your own way. typical democrat. while sitting on your ass in philly. good job. and you SURVIVED too! wow….good boy.
be sure to keep up the anti christian rhetoric…….because right now you sound more like david “hitler” goldstein.
xmasghost: he means you, silly!
Ken @ 29,
LOL
What a wild stretch! That one is almost as good as the liberal lie that we invaded Iraq for the oil.
Only the koolaid drinking moonbats will give that one any credibility
jaybo@122 sez:
“Sara Silverman is what you would call a “secular jew” (just like you). This is actually proof of my contention that secular jews really are ashamed of their heritage.
Comment by jaybo— 12/15/05 @ 7:23 am”
Secular Jews aka JINO’s.
jaybo is 100% correct on this.
The Jewish faith is to be respected. I certainly do.
JINO’s aka Secular Jews are a disgrace. Just like Goldy, they try to give you an impression they are Holocaust victims when in reality they have lived privileged lives. They become horribly addicted to being “victimized”….perhaps it masked their guilt pangs of having it so good themselves. They are CLOWNS!
Was Jesus a JINO?
windie……”xmasghost: he means you, silly!”
and just who would “he” be?
because if you are talking about christians, you idiot, i am not one. never have been. and it’s certainly not a mystery to anyone who is on this baord and can read.
trying to make david “hitler” goldstein out to be some sort of holocaust survivor victim at the same time attacking christians should give anyone with a brain pause. i guess that leaves you out….
jaybo @ 124,
You moron…that is not an example of an “Anti Christmas” display. That was done by someone who is anit-hunting.
Long ago ChristmasGhost said her name was a play on terms. But moonbats can’t read or comprehend! Keep proving them wrong Ghostie!
dj,
I’m sure that all of the families with kids and the kids in the neighborhood see it just like you do.
By the way, I’m all for you moonbats adding the “Anti-Christmas” plank to your political platform.
thanks puddy…but it is like shooting “fish”[ pun intended] in a barrel.
since none of then seem to be able to read or comprehend anything i guess it isn’t surprising that they wouldn’t get it.
dicken’s “a christmas carol” ….does that clear it up for you foolios?
interesting that their rightious indignation disappears instantly once someone in their “tribe” does something really really wrong.the silence [or excuses] become deafening……
but hey, if that’s the only way that washington [huh? where?] state can get on national news…by going after christians…i guess they figure there’s no such thing as bad publicity.
in this case they just don’t know how wrong they are.
well…i finally took the time to watch the video…give the jew girl toys.
wow…so NOT funny it isn’t even funny.
so goldy “hitler” goldstein..would it be funny if someone came out with a video doing the same thing only it would be mocking hanukah?
especially the part where she asks santa if he is german and then does a nazi salute. tasteless…but i am not surprised. liberals think that if something is tastless it must be art/cool/ funny or worthwhile.
goldy you are such a pathetic hypocrite. and to think i actually thought you had writing ability….pfftttt….that thought is gone.
for the record, you shouldn’t read to much into posts like that. I know you claim to know about concepts like ‘jokes’ and ‘sarcasm’ and ‘being snide’… But unsurprisingly you only ever see it when its done by your folks. When its the other side… you just don’t get it.
On the other hand, ghostie, you should be happy. Your (intentional?) denseness and wierd narcissism is way more irritating than cynical’s lame humor and pathetic attempts at trolling, or even than JCH’s oh-so-over-the-top racist schtick.
classic xmasghost!
only your jokes are funny, everything (and everyone) that isn’t in tune with your POV is ‘stupid and lame and offensive’.
On the other hand, ghostie, you should be happy. Your (intentional?) denseness and wierd narcissism is way more irritating than cynical’s lame humor and pathetic attempts at trolling, or even than JCH’s oh-so-over-the-top racist schtick.
Comment by windie — 12/15/05 @ 2:36 pm
[What is wrong with Goldy’s daughter enjoying the company of fellow Democrats in Detroit at 2 AM? Not a Republican around to ruin the Democrat “fun”. Hell, this should be “Hillary Heaven” and Goldy’s family should enjoy meeting their fellow Democrats!!
and dj…speaking of morons……if it was “just” anti hunting don’t you think they would have done it at a different time of year? and when was the last time anyone hunted a reindeer in the US with a RED NOSE.
bullshit…it wasn’t anti hunting. it’s anti christmas.
at least when you losers do crap like this ,the least you can do is stand up and say “yeah…we did that” but noooooo…you notice the homeowner didn’t want to talk to anyone? gutless wonder.
so, if you look at the big picture….what’s the difference between foreign terrorists and american liberals?
N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
american [term used very loosely here] liberals don’t just throw real bombs [weather undergound, SLA, ALF, ELF… ad nauseum…] they throw emotional ones and then ,like the cowards they are, run away from taking responsibility.
goldy…i want you to really think about this……….
the rallies against jews [ but typical libs they call them “pro-palestinian”…it’s so clever] in SF are going strong. they get bigger crowds all the time. these are your liberal peeps.with you and your peeps attacking christians and christmas the way you are …who the hell will be there to save your ass FROM THEM?
answer…….probably no one……..
and speaking of other morons….dj…right on cue.
“wierd narcissism” do you actually have a dictionary you can use? because i suggest that you use it.
nothing about someone attacking another’s religion is even remotely funny.never will be.
you aren’t trying to be “funny” and neither was paul berendt.
gutless wonder…you won’t even step up to the plate and admit that you are an intolerant jerk.
yup, you are “just being funny” the same way hitler was. you know he started out with just cartoons and then moved on to jokes and then gas chambers.
you and goldy should be ashamed of yourselves. you haven’t learned a goddamned thing from history.
maybe less yakking and boozing for you “two?” and more reading and thinking……….
proving my point yet again, thank you!
your not-so-clever (read old hat) dictionary jibe is another classic example. Nobody that disagrees with you can possibly have a wide vocabulary or be intellegent. You’re so helplessly self-centered in your personality and your views that theres really no way to communicate across the gap.
Lately some non-troll conservatives have come on here who actually want to discuss things… its fun, and a relief. Someone like you tho, christmasghost, only makes the place worse.
My advice: Learn to deal with people, or go away. You’re not getting your needs met in a healthy manner on here.
oh windie…gawd……i can’t stop laughing.
that’s the best you’ve got?
uh oh…here comes windie and his/her psycho babble to “destroy”.
ohmygod…that is just too funny. especially when you get your knickers in a knot over my dictionary reference. isn’t what you are accusing me of… EXACTLY… what you were doing in that post, sweetie?
yes…it is.
“needs met in a healthy manner”……
ohmygod…that is the best laugh i have had all year. too funny.
typical phoney liberal…pretend concern whilst [you think] you are sinking the knife in someone’s back.
wow….so clever too.
but geez…thanks for the laugh. i am still laughing…………
Christmasghost @134
and what? you get to decide who they are? and YOU think YOU are qualified to do that? wrong again………
I had to explain the word hypocrite to my friend’s nine-year-old daughter last week, so let me try it again here. No one just “decides” whether someone is a hypocrite. A hypocrite is simply someone who advocates one thing, but does the opposite. Each person decides whether or not they are a hypocrite. I’m just pointing out those who’ve decided to be hypocritical.
besides…if you wanted to just get at “hypocritical†cristians why would you use a bumper sticker that will affect all who see it? kids…for instance.
It’s actually a magnet, not a bumper sticker. Second, I don’t really think it “affects” anyone any more than anything else in this world. That was the main point of my original post, that the right in this country has taken political correctness to new levels. Left wing political correctness went off the deep end when they starting believing that any little thing that could affect a child’s pristine view of tolerance had to be removed. That’s exactly what you’re saying here with respect to Christianity, that some symbol that might offend someone should be removed. No. A child needs to learn that in life, not everyone is going to share their world view. You can’t shelter children from that.
isn’t this just more typical liberal “public-trainwreck†grandstanding? you want to disturb and upset as many people as possible at once like the children you are.
If someone believes that people like Bill O’Reilly, Pat Robertson, Rush Limbaugh, and others are models of Christian morality, then yes, I want to disturb them from their bubble of naivete. You can call me a child all you want, but you’re the one who still, figuratively, believes in Santa Claus.
while being gutless cowards[paul berendt here….”it was just an oops”]……
Actually, it was an oops. Berendt trusted someone, the fraud turned up in an audit, and he did what many would have done in that situation. Show me one Republican who was in that same situation and didn’t do what Berendt did.
and this is what you call tolerance?
Actually, no. I don’t call it tolerance. I call it criticism. And we need much more criticism of the people in power in the country than tolerance of their misdeeds.
nop wonder you aren’t the party in power. with dean and hillary OUT there you should probably get used to it.
I’m not a party, I’m a person. I’ve voted for Republicans in the past and haven’t been registered as a Democrat in almost a decade. The reason that the Republicans are in power today is because through right-wing talk radio, a large segment of our country now believes in complete fairy tales as truth. You are one of those people. It was a gambit that many wealthy Wall Street Republicans believed would work. The truth is that people like Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and Bill O’Reilly don’t believe the nonsense that they say. People who know Pat Robertson say that he’s hardly ever picked up a Bible. That’s what makes them hypocrites. But eventually the lying and the irresponsibility catches up to you. And not everyone in this country is as stupid as you. People have started to figure out that giving tax cuts to the rich DOESN’T make everyone wealthier. They’ve started to figure out that allowing the free market to dictate our health care DOESN’T make it more affordable or better. They’ve started to figure out that shaking your fist, putting a sticker on your car, and sending soldiers to die in a country with a cruel leader DOESN’T stop terrorism. All it’s done is make the pretend Christians wealthier. And you poorer.
I’m dead serious when I say this, Christmasghost. You need help. You have a very bizarre view of people on the left. I can sit here all day and explain why the things you’re tricked into believing are nonsense, but the reality is that you have absolutely no ability to evaluate things logically. You’re the hypocritical gasbags’ gravy train.
Oh, and by the way, I never saw anything new. Has your niece come home yet? I do hope that she comes back by Christmas.
thehim,
Oh, and by the way, I never saw anything new. Has your niece come home yet? I do hope that she comes back by Christmas.
I echo that (and only that). Christmasghost?
thehim,
On further review, I do not doubt your sincerity regarding your beliefs, and on a number of them, I agree. I can list them, if you wish (let me know), but substantively I am not sure what you wrote @153 is the absolute real thehim. Christmasgost has her understanding of the world, you have yours. At what point do you decide she needs help? When you quit communicating? Granted, you are not married, so I only ask for my own edification. :)
er, married to each other…
sgmmac, or XmasG do you care to comment on your friend Mark the Redneck’s comment
This is the mindset of the party you are defending.
marks ….thanks for asking about cheryl. no, she has not come home, nor has anyone seen her. there were two phone calls from cheryl…she sounded very strange, and would not [or could not] say where she was. the case is still open, although where we go from here is still up in the air.
as the police said …until anyone sees her unharmed it is still an open case.
you can imagine what my sister has been going through.
*************************************************************
as for you “thehim”…..i think [???]..thank you for asking also. although i have to say you didn’t sound very sincere. it was more like a jab after your comment about santa and then you hoped “she came home by christmas”. i can only hope that you didn’t mean it as it sounded. because it would be you that really needed help if that were the case. i will give you the benefit of the doubt on this.
as far as your opinions I.E. christmas and christians go…..that’s all they are ….your opinion. to assume that you have the absolute knowledge on this subject is the height of arrogance.
i won’t bother to address most of your bitter miserly comments about the subject except for one.
you betcha i believe in santa….
tonight i was fortunate enough to go and watch a school CHRISTMAS musical/play at the very small country school in our very small and wonderful town.and i truly feel sorry for people like you. you will never really “get” the whole idea behind christmas. it’s not about advertising or evil corporations you complete twit. it’s about people and the good feelings and things they do this time of year. it’s what we all wish we could feel the rest of the year.it’s about watching a very tiny kindergartner [that invited you specially] sing santa claus is coming to town while she pulls on the construction paper beard she made herself. it’s the handmade invitation ,a little grubby hand made so carefully. and the way the kid’s faces light up. it’s watching my whole town sing silent night at the end all together with the kids……seeing adults get tears in their eyes, remembering the years gone by.
you are the one that doesn’t get it. santa claus…the idea of him…is alive and well. you are just too jaded to see it.
and for that…i really feel sorry for you.
and might i add that only you could/would link something as wonderful as christmas with politicians, the media etc.
****expect a visit late at night…chains a rattling you old scrooge….for YOU are truly the one that doesn’t get it…….
your name wouldn’t happen to be mr. potter by any chance would it?
XmasG, I know you are here, so please respond to my question @ 157
And PuddyBud, can you provide ONE qoute from a leftist HA poster “supporting the idiot Iranian President regarding the destuction of Israel”, as you stated on the thread The War on
ChristmasJewsIs HA just surrounded by Misogynist Republicans and the Women who support them, and the Lying “Christian” hypocrits that make statements they know are complete Bullshit and still refuse to apologize?
I fear the answer is: Yes.
Christmasghost @ 158
“about cheryl. no, she has not come home, nor has anyone seen her. there were two phone calls from cheryl…she sounded very strange, and would not [or could not] say where she was. the case is still open, although where we go from here is still up in the air.
as the police said …until anyone sees her unharmed it is still an open case.
you can imagine what my sister has been going through.”
Thanks for the update on Cheryl, Christmasghost. As much as I dislike your politics, I can easily put all that aside and say that I sincerely hope that Cheryl is safe and I wish for you and your family success in finding her.
Cheryl, do you care to comment on your friend Mark the Redneck’s comment
This is the mindset of the party you are defending.
donnageddon..what the hell?
first of all your comment “XmasG, I know you are here, so please respond to my question @ 157”
and just what would make you think that? first of all…i wasn’t “there” as you put it. i was making cookies for the kids from the play.so i know you think you’re clever and all….but i wouldn’t exactly put you in the same category as “medium”…..LOL.
and secondly….i know you think you have some big AH HA moment here…but you are wrong again.
sadly, i have to point out that not only are you a G-U-Y [so what’s it to you?] but “mark the redneck” is just stating the truth.i have friends [yeah they are liberal……] who actually think the “glass ceiling” exists.no matter how many times i have asked them to give me just one example…they can’t.
talk about believing in fairy stories…….
sadly he is not saying that is what he thinks he is just stating a fact i have noticed many times.
what? you are so far gone to the liberal side that you think that just because someone has a vagina they are automatically a rocket scientist? usually if a premise doesn’t work one way…it won’t the other either.
stop trying to kill the messenger.
i thought it was refreshing of mark the redneck to say what is common knowledge amoung WOMEN.
most liberal women are too easily swayed in their beliefs by non facts fed to them by idiots like you.the same, fortunately cannot be said of conservative women in my experience. we are much more likely to take people like you on and call bullshit on you…than our liberal spineless “we just wanna have abortions and we’ll shut up” counterparts.
and then there are your cheryl comments……….”Cheryl, do you care to comment on your friend Mark the Redneck’s comment”
you sure as hell better know someone on here named cheryl…or that is the tackiest thing you have ever done.
and that is saying ALOT.
“i thought it was refreshing of mark the redneck to say what is common knowledge amoung WOMEN.”
so…
its common knowledge in the circles you travel in that having a vagina makes you stupid? I suggest you get some new friends… Or something. Or that you learn to read. Regardless of what you try to twist donnageddons words into (like claiming that don means ‘having vagina makes you a genius…’), the fact that you’re supporting a sexist loser who gets his ideas from loser-radio, apparently just because he’s on your side, and are either are willing to lie to support a fellow rightie troll or actually believe that women are inherently stupid… Well, damn. You’re an embarassment to your gender and your species.
The above post (164) shows EXACTLY why you’re not worthy of these discussions. The truth isn’t in you.
………..
I still can’t get over it.
MTR says: “Have ya ever noticed the correlation between presence of a vagina and stoopidty?”
and you say: “i thought it was refreshing of mark the redneck to say what is common knowledge amoung WOMEN.”
that says it all
windie……….thae fact is that women are the new group that democrats want to manipulate. it used to be blacks…they used welfare on them. now it’s women…and they use abortion.there haven’t been any real democrats since the late 70’s…you are all just socialists…in washington especially.
and here’s a question for you, a bit off topic, but i am curious. if democrats are against BIG CORPORATIONS [ooooh scary.] then why is it that i keep getting an offer for a VISA card in the mail from the democratic party????
and ,on topic, since i have been a registered republican FOREVER…why are they sending it to me? over and over again? maybe because i am a woman?
maybe you should try to open your closed mind long enough to consider the possiblility. after all…you belong to the party that was handing out crack and ciggies to blacks so they would vote democrat.
yup…another real thinker…………
windie…i answered your post…when goldy’s filter lets it go…you’ll have your answer.
okay…filter still has it i guess.
here’s a snippet. what you just said in your post was exactly what i am talking about.
pandering.
you are assuming that just because someone is female that they are well read, intelligent, and always make the right decisions. you don’t really beleive a word of it but it’s the new “pander to the idiots” mode the dems have gone into. you can’t tell blacks that you’ll give them welfare[ and talk about destroying a culture for your own gain] to get them to vote for you anymore so what do you do?
roe v. wade. yeah man [errr woman] we FEEL your pain. and when we get you pregnant [because we just know ..being MEN]…that you are too stupid to not get pregnant by accident. we JUST KNOW that you can’t handle taking a pill everyday. because you are a female and so TOO STUPID.
so who really thinks that women are stupid?
male democrats…….
no I”m not ghost.
I even addressed that point in my post above.
What MTR said had no qualifications or anything. Just…
“Have ya ever noticed the correlation between presence of a vagina and stoopidty?”
and you defend that position! Sure you twist it to an attack on democrats again, but what you’re doing is building a Strawman at best.
At least admit that MTR’s comment as written is uacceptable and sexist.
He’s a Leykis-scumbag, and if you’ve been paying attention at all for the last 10 years, you should know what that means.
The fact that you’ll say we’re saying something else is so… dishonest. But then again, its you. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
Marks @155
Christmasgost has her understanding of the world, you have yours. At what point do you decide she needs help?
At the point where paranoia trumps reason and hatred trumps understanding. ProudAss (who I’m sure you’ll agree has some similarity to Christmasghost to some extent in their outlook) once made a comment that she would be afraid to let me be around her kids. I’ve been a big brother, for crying out loud. That’s paranoia, and it’s not healthy.
“At least admit that MTR’s comment as written is uacceptable and sexist.”
no…i won’t. because we have something called freedom of speech in this country and i do not support the whole PC-POLICE thing. sorry to disappoint you.it was his opinion…and let’s face it, obviously tongue in cheek.
your constant braying about people’s comments ring hollow.
if you want anyone to take your hurt feelings seriously you would have to apply the same level of “i’m so shocked” to goldy’s et al BS. now wouldn’t you?
and we all know that is never going to happen.
and in the end it’s sticks and stones baby…….just words. right? just like when goldy [or you] call someone a nazi every five minutes. or the flaming fish….hey that was NOTHING right?
get real…try some intellectual integrity for a change.
thehim…though i’m sure you were a very good big brother…..isn’t that a position that alot of child molestors choose?
so maybe it’s not paranoia but simply her looking out for her kids……
or maybe she just didn’t want their little minds poisoned by a liberal? ;)
your ignorance is showing ghost.
All your bizarre smokescreens aside, you’d rather support the concept that all women are stupid because they’re women than admit that a supposed ally went over the line.
If you’ve been reading at all over the last several months, MTR’s Emotions RE:women are BLAZINGLY clear. He’s a simple misogynist.
You know it, but you’re so congenitally twisted that you’d never EVER admit it.
and then you have the gall to talk about ‘intellectual integrity’
what was that word again?
oh yeah…
IRONY
for the record, I’ve long ago given up on trying to convince you of anything Ghostie, you’re not capable of adjusting your absurd worldview.
So all I can do is present, and let you reply, and show everyone else (in your own words no less) what a stupid, foul, dishonest human being you really are.
Christmasghost @ 158
I’m sorry my comment didn’t sound sincere. I hope that your niece is safe, wherever she is. And I do hope that your family can be together for Christmas.
The reason that I say that you need help is because you make very giant incorrect leaps about how I really feel about Christmas and Christians and it makes you view me as some sort of enemy. And I don’t really need to go into details as to why, on a large scale, this is dangerous for American society.
Like you, I grew up in a small town that celebrated Christmas with zeal. However, unlike you, my family was one of the few Jewish families in that town. We had to deal with certain things that you never had to deal with. Mostly minor things, but things that cemented our place as outsiders. Once, my parents were called by the school and threatened with a fine because I was kept home on Yom Kippur. We even had a neighbor who was surprised that we didn’t have horns.
But growing up, I loved Christmastime, and obviously all of my friends were Christian. But for Jewish families who want to instill Jewish traditions in their children, living in an environment like that can be tricky. The commercial, Santa Claus, side is non-threatening, but the Christ in a Manger side goes against Jewish beliefs.
I’m a stickler for church-state issues because I don’t think that parents anywhere should have to worry about their children being exposed to religious beliefs that are not squared with their own. How would you like it if you were the only Christian in a Jewish town and your 7 year old child was told by a teacher that Jesus wasn’t the son of god? You’d be upset. That’s why schools and other public places should be religiously neutral places.
I have very fond memories of singing Christmas Carols in my elementary school chorus, but I also think my mom did the right thing in pressuring the music teacher to also include a Hanukkah song instead of trying to get the Christmas songs banned (as the only Jewish kid in the school, I definitely felt weird, but I was 8, and I got over it). I don’t feel, and my parents didn’t feel, that me singing Silent Night was an attempt to instill beliefs on me, otherwise I don’t think it should have been allowed.
And, in case you’ve forgotten this point, it’s not me that’s linking Christmas with politics. It’s Bill O’Reilly.
though i’m sure you were a very good big brother…..isn’t that a position that alot of child molestors choose?
Sure, and you could say that about priests too.
so maybe it’s not paranoia but simply her looking out for her kids……
She didn’t know that when she said what she did. :)
or maybe she just didn’t want their little minds poisoned by a liberal?
I’m more a libertarian than a liberal, but for many conservatives, that’s probably worse. :)
thehim………all i can say is “WOW”.
we agree on so many things…who knew? it’s amazing that most people do have more in common that not….
first of all….the town i grew up in was small but it was still tiburon, marin county, california.so i was fortunate enough to grow up in a place where being jewish was not unusual at all.
but i do absolutely understand what you are saying . it’s not just jews that have the whole “do you have horns” problem. this might surprise you but since my husband is catholic…i found out the hard way that most “christians” view catholics in the same way a bigot views jews. after we were married we moved to a very rural part of california to a ranch to raise our kids. the only available school was a christian one. okay…i wasn’t thrilled about that for many reasons. but i never in my wildest dreams could have imagined that i would pick up a sobbing 5 year old who just kept saying over and over “is daddy really going to HELL?”
it turns out that’s what they were telling the kids about catholics. oh and they really had horns and sacrificed babies on the alter too.
yeah…..it was bad. the “teacher” had a very bad day the next day. i mean really? LOL…what kind of idiot wants to argue with me??? ;)
i love the american tradition of christmas…and while i respect people’s religious beliefs i believe that there are walls on a church for a reason. to keep what they believe IN.
i too, am not a big fan of manger scenes…but,after all is said and done, it is people expressing their religious beliefs at an appropriate time of year.
“But for Jewish families who want to instill Jewish traditions in their children, living in an environment like that can be tricky.”
and i see what you are saying. that’s why the whole flaming fish thing was not just in bad taste, it was appalling. while i do not share the religious side of christmas…i deeply respect it. just as i do all religions.
as far as keeping schools and other government places neutral….i can’t say i agree with that….if you mean all symbols of christmas.a christmas tree? santa claus?[ everyone should remember that the religious zealots are the only real enemy here….and they want to do away with christmas too. why help them out?]
the wonderful school christmas play i went to last night was a great example of how wonderful it can be.
they sang a great chanukkah song….and as far as i know the only jew in the entire town is the one that lives in our house….so you see, it can work out nicely.
and we ended up the evening by singing silent night. the whole town and all the kids together. it was wonderful.i think you would have liked it.
my love of christmas is based purely on it being a wonderful american tradition. the family together, the songs, the food, the lights and decorations….and most of all a time of year to be grateful for what we have and to help others who are in need. too bad we all don’t do it more often.
“about how I really feel about Christmas and Christians and it makes you view me as some sort of enemy. And I don’t really need to go into details as to why, on a large scale, this is dangerous for American society.”
i couldn’t agree more…and may i direct you to goldy’s latest post?
why do you think that it bothers me so much that he is busily bashing christmas? first of all…it’s bad taste to rip apart someone else’s religion, and most of all it’s dangerous. because he is giving the religious zealots exactly what they want and he doesn’t seem to realize it.
i will say it again…i don’t watch o’reilly. i can’t stand the man…he makes my skin crawl.
so i did not get the idea from him that there is a war on christmas. all you have to do is spend some time in a place like seattle to realize that the PC police want to do away with it…as in right now.
“happy holidays” never bothered me until it was the ONLY thing that was being said. when the chief clerk at the state capitol courthouse states that he will lose his job if he says it’s a christmas tree rather than a holiday tree…..now that is truly frightening.
“The commercial, Santa Claus, side is non-threatening, but the Christ in a Manger side goes against Jewish beliefs.”
i agree…..but don’t lights on the houses also go against jewish beliefs…if you are orthodox?
so where do you draw the line?
with my kids…when they were small….i would just point out the interesting and beautiful side of the different religions.and i would minimize the differences…for in the end they really don’t matter that much. we are all human….and for the most part, i think that we all want the same things.to take care of our families, to live a happy life, to help others…..
oh…and absolutely about the priests. any job where you have access to young children…not just “big brothers”. and the priests are the worst of the worst.
hey goldy…would you mind giving your filter a good kick for me?
my answer to thehim is sitting in it………
thehim…….since goldy is perhaps one of the most foul-mouthed humans on earth it does make one wonder just what his “filter” would be filtering.
and since you and i both have blogs…and[ unlike the rogers of the world] we both know that a filter isn’t some big unseen hand …..so i started wondering what on earth goldy could possibly filter that wasn’t already coming out of his own mouth.
maybe my post is stuck because in it i agree with almost everything you said.
now THAT would bug goldy…….. ;)
Christmasghost, Goldy’s filter is random. I can’t figure it out, I just copy and paste everything to Notepad before I click ‘Say It!’
I’m glad you understand where I’m coming from. Here was my post from earlier in the week that elaborated a little more about my past (the good and bad) and how that relates to the so-called “War on Christmas”. Some of the best people I’ve ever met in my life are guided by Christian faith. And even though I don’t believe in god and I will want any children I have to grow up without being exposed to religion, that’s not the same as fighting Christianity. Bill O’Reilly’s sleight of hand in equating the two is shameful, and you shouldn’t fall for it.
thehim…..no filter is random. that would undercut the whole idea behind a filter.
but that aside…thank you for your answer and i will say again o’reilly never influenced me because i only saw him once at my dad’s [my stepmother likes him…need i say more??? lol]
anyway…i’m done here.
it has been interesting talking to you all, but the religious jabs crossed the line and goldy is more anti semitic than anyone else i have run into.