Friday morning open thread

I’m working on a lot of different things this morning, including some stuff I actually get paid for, so you’ll just have to be patient and talk amongst yourselves. And if you really can’t think of anything to talk about, how about this.


  1. 1

    YO spews:


  2. 2

    momus spews:

    I am a fan of wealth distribution….

    I encourage as much money as possible to come my way.

    Know how you liberal women came to the conclusion that money is bad, i will never know.

    Take Bunny Boy for instance, he worked for a couple years as an army grunt, made nothing for doing nothing, rode the GI Bill through College, worked for 30 years and now collects a phat check everymonth, for basically just suckling off the Governments breast.

    I ask you, what could this clown possibly have against America, or is it Amerika?

  3. 3

    Cougar spews:

    RR and marks. I think I have found the affliction of our professional trolls here on HA.

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has issued a warning about a new virulent strain of Sexually Transmitted Disease. The disease is contracted through dangerous and high risk behavior. The disease is called Gonorrhea Lectim and pronounced “gonna re-elect him.” Many victims contracted it in 2004, after having been screwed for the past four years. Cognitive characteristics of individuals infected include:anti-social personality disorders, delusions of grandeur with messianic overtones, extreme cognitive dissonance,inability to incorporate new information, pronounced xenophobia and paranoia,inability to accept responsibility for own actions, cowardice masked by misplaced bravado,uncontrolled facial smirking, ignorance of geography and history, tendencies towards evangelical theocracy,categorical all-or-nothing behavior. Naturalists and epidemiologists are amazed at how this destructive disease originated only a few years ago from a bush found in Texas.

    from a poster @

  4. 4

    Commander Ogg spews:

    sgmmac @ 56
    You said it brother (sister?).

    Considering the sh-t I had to deal with for the past 20 years, if Mr. Momus thinks I should feel the slightest bit of guilt for collecting every benefit and entitlement I am allowed from the Federal and state government; exspecially my pension, then he is smoking. And it is not tobacco.

    Unlike the Corporate thieves who are now on trial, I do not expect anyone to rob me of my pension.

    Ex-Enron employee to discuss firm’s fall

    By Greg Barr
    The Daily News
    Published February 3, 2006

    CLEAR LAKE — When beleaguered energy trading conglomerate Enron collapsed in December 2001, Elaine Tombaugh was standing in line at the company’s credit union, across the street from its towering Houston office building…

    …Tombaugh lost 75 percent of her company retirement fund that day when Enron shares plummeted. Nonetheless, in looking back, she regards the experience as a valuable lesson, spun into a Clear Lake management-consulting firm, Positive Organizations, owned by Tombaugh and her husband.

    Although Bush and his toady the little Rummer Boy are sure going to try:

    Feb. 2, 2006, 1:19PM
    Audit Finds Accounting Flaws at VA

    By HOPE YEN Associated Press Writer
    © 2006 The Associated Press

    WASHINGTON — Eager to reduce spending, the Bush administration falsely claimed savings of more than $1.3 billion in the Department of Veterans Affairs to justify cuts to health care services, congressional investigators say.

  5. 5

    windie spews:

    I really think the ‘paid troll’ situation is getting out of hand. Identities in the vein of momus and JCH are totally unacceptable:

    So I present to Goldy a plea:

    Goldy: I know you’re against censoring people… but, theres a difference between trolls that wanna discuss the politics, no matter how foul (IE Janet S, or puddy, or even someone like MTR or Mr. Cynical) and trolls who only come to disrupt the threads, discourage talk, and totally ruin the signal-to-noise ratio. A lack of censorship has made a strong blog… but censorship doesn’t cover people who are specifically trying to discourage discussion. No matter how distasteful I find someone like Mark The Redneck, he’s at least trying to score his points… This new breed of troll isn’t doing anything but try to chase people away. I enjoy fighting the good fight, but theres not even any fight there… just bad-faith disruption.

    Please do something, Goldy!

  6. 6

    sgmmac spews:

    what is the issue with taxpayer funded pensions? If you spend your life working for taxpayers, who else is going to fund your retirement?

    Taxpayers pay my retirement and they pay for my VA Disability payments too!

  7. 7

    momus spews:

    And you must be another candy assed liberal, all talk and no walk.

    No go whine about something else Bitch

  8. 8

    Donnageddon spews:

    momus is stupid. Example

    “Know how you liberal women came to the conclusion that money is bad, i will never know.”

    Gee.. didn’t see anyone say that, momus. You must be stupid.

  9. 9

    EXPERT from BOEING spews:

    35 – JCH

    You filthy sick bigot. Jesus and Pappa God gonna get you someday. Where ever the line is, you crossed it as an ugly, contorted, demon posessed baby.

    The Article you don’t like is from The Seattle Times. Sqaurely on the No side to repeal the newly minted state wide gay rights law. Written by Ryan Blethen, of the Blethens who have owned the paper for decades. I think it is a great omen for the
    gay folks and their supporters.

    And YOU are mentioned exactly in the article. Read it and learn and weep. Still time to repent your evil ways.

  10. 10

    windie spews:

    momus: Prove your good faith. Try to actually debate the subject instead of going into your “All about me, all about you” diatribes. This is an open thread, so its a good place to deal with it.

    don’t fool yourself with the idea that you’re anything but disruptive. You constantly try to pull the subject away from anything remotely related to the matter at hand, and you have a wonderous love for trying to cause flamewars. PBJ and Mr. Cynical were far and above more interested in the issues than you are, and thats saying something.

    If you’re here in good faith, let me ask you this: You say “We are just sick and tired of lisetning to your point of view and are going to beat you down at every chance.” If this is true, why are you here? You claim we’re irrelevant, et cetera, and then you go out of your way to disrupt things. It doesn’t click. If you want to troll, at least troll on the issues, not this irrelevant crap.

    I’m not seriously saying you’re JCH (Only Goldy knows for sure), but the same thing applies to both of you. Shock tactics, attempts to derail through particularly offensive comments, a total disregard for the subject matter… this is what you traffic in.

    And thats wrong, and its harmful to the political debate in the country.

  11. 11

    momus spews:

    Seriously windie, shut up.

    No one is paid for pestering your whinny liberal ass.

    We are just sick and tired of lisetning to your point of view and are going to beat you down at every chance.

    This is why you are a minority in this country.

  12. 12

    litmus spews:

    @70 — Thank you Will_. Not are they only extrememly partisan, but they have trouble communicating in other than 4 letter words…

  13. 13

    JDB spews:

    Libertarian at 62:

    And yet Tim Eymann continues to make a living.

    Here is an interesting factoid: Bush’s approval ratings have gone down steadily since the State of the Union:

    Now, part of this is an obvious outlier driving his number to far up (For those who don’t follow this stuff, Rasmussen is a Republican leaning polster, and the poll is made up of a rolling three day sample. Trends are more important than absolute numbers). So the fall isn’t that bad. The strange thing is apparently he got absolutely no lift from the SOTU what so ever.

  14. 14

    Will_ spews:

    I read these pages and I realize that there are people on all sides of the political spectrum. Each person on here seems to walk the party line and keep it left against right. What I want to know does anyone on here really believe that either party is here to do whats best for the people? I have come to the conclusion that all politicians are in it for one thing and one thing only, Themself! They only do what is best for them not for the people they work for or whats right for the country.
    When will we the people stop playing partician politics and hold the politicians responsible to do what’s best for The State of Washington and America. Otherwise they will be fired!!

  15. 15

    momus spews:


    You are paranoid, go seek help.

    I’ve never met JCH & I’ll never meet you either.

  16. 16

    windie spews:

    there ya go again… classic example.

    Its a combination of personal attacks (“you’re paranoid”) and misquotes (“I’ve never met JCH” vs “I’m not seriously saying you’re JCH”), with a side dish of avoiding the question (“If we’re useless and meaningless and make you mad, why are you here?” also avoiding the ‘Try to post constructively to show you want more than disruption’)

    We’re not dummies here, and we know how you work. Prove why you should still be here. (Note its extremely unlikely that Goldy would actually ban you, as its not his style… but its worth making the argument)

  17. 18

    windie spews:

    first link from 65 doesn’t want to work either (demands a registration when you link from here)… so, sorry for the cut and paste:

    “re: professional forum spamming is becoming an increasing problem for us.
    There are sites now that specialize in “acquiring targeted” traffic from forums. That is all they do. They go out and find forums that are ontopic to a customers needs and they carefully “spam” the forum to acquire link backs, name dropping, and often direct url dropping to bring back customers.

    Some of the techniques they use:

    – Tag teams. One or more agents will start and engage in conversations with each other to add credibility to a thread.
    – post count building. Often, agents will increase their post count, carefully contributing to the ‘players’ in a forum to beef up “nick recognition”, and then slowly introduce a topic.
    – Classic Q & A with themselves. forums that don’t watch ip addresses real close often have agents that carry on conversations with themselves under two different nicks.
    – Name dropping and whisper campaigns. Often they just drop the name of a product. After awhile they come back and work in the url with some member saying, “oh ya, I’ve heard of them”.
    – Profile building. I know one company that targets a particular industry, that has two agents with over 50,000 posts around forums under their nicks. With all that posting, those two agents are now considered “experts” in their topic area – and they are nothing more than salesmen.

    The problem? They are getting very good at it.

    What can we do to stem this tide? “

  18. 20

    windie spews:

    lib: The paid thing is to some degree hyperbole… The point remains, especially as stated in my comment @60. Of course, as you know, the “Kevin Carns” situation feeds the paid troll concept, and it does actually exist (see below). Thats not really the point tho’. The real issue is the fact that they’re trying to subtract from the discussion, not add to it… and they are clearly doing it on purpose.

    momus@62 Thats actually a little better. But I remember the Clinton years, and its amazing what he got done despite a Republican congress devoted to the precept of “Vote against whatever Clinton proposes”… I remember the government shutdown~ Do you?

    Blocking policy you honestly think is harmful (ie Bush’s joke ‘social security reform’) isn’t obstructionism. What you do is.

    Notes: < --site admin complaining about paid trolls (or more specifically paid forum posters, but its the same concept) <–one wiki definition

  19. 21

    momus spews:


    So what you are saying is the obstructionism is not good for the politics in the US?

    REALLY?, seems to me that that is all the Democratic Party in this country is capable of these days, so yes, I agree with with you, Obstructionist tactics are harmful to the United States.

  20. 22

    Libertarian spews:

    windie, I don’t really think it is likely that people are paid to come onto this blog and be disruptive. I don’t see much of an economic benefit to paying someone to be an asshole. Maybe the guys being abusive are just assholes with too much time on their hands?

  21. 23

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Kevin Carns @73

    “Like I have said previously, get back out on the corner and make me some money”

    Why don’t you just rob somebody? You Republicans are good at that.

  22. 24

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “Any troll from uSP that posts comments here that are in any way critical of a liberal viewpoint should be immediately BANNED”

    Nah, I’m against censorship. Just kick ‘em in the balls.

  23. 25

    litmus spews:

    Watch it, won’t take them long to trash you now — too much common sense. Some of the rhetoric here is so counterproductive — oh yes, they’ll say it’s because the other side is unreasonable or too stupid, but that’s just an indication to me of how shallow their thought processes are — both sides. I’ve never seen the political animosity this high and expressed so lowly.

  24. 26

    momus spews:


    Windie, Like I have said previously, get back out on the corner and make me some money

  25. 27

    Will_ spews:

    @72- It’s to bad. A blog such as this could be used to strengthen the people of the state of Washington to take control of our politicians and make them do the will of the people not whatever is best for them. The only thing that seems to become stronger is the lack of respect between everyone.

  26. 29

    Will_ spews:

    94 Roger that is the wrong approach for all of us. Everyone on here was taking sides on passing “Jessica’s Law”. Instead of people like are selves calling up both parties and demanding them to sit down and pass a tough law that would benifit everyone in Washington we chose to argue with each other about the way it was brought up. The political parties argue like a bunch of gang bangers trying to protect there territory at any cost. Instead of the people of Washington banning together to do what’s right and making the politians accountable to work together and do what’s best for us.
    Quit voting down political lines and vote based on issues. No matter which party brings it up.

  27. 30

    Donnageddon spews:

    “The ?redistribute the wealth? game is over.] Comment by JCH? 2/3/06 @ 10:48 am”

    I fucking hope so! I am pretty damned tired of having my wealth redistributed to the lying stealing NeoCon Class warriors.

  28. 31

    For the Clueless spews:


    After seeing Brokeback Mountain, he hooked up with Tim Eyman at his horse property in Enumclaw.

  29. 32

    JCH spews:

    RR, Did you take your KY Waming Gel when you enjoyed “Bareback Mounting”? I hope you sat by yourself and cleaned up afterwards!

  30. 34

    For the Clueless spews:

    Hey Puddy Freep,

    How long has the Republican Party been hiding these guys?

    Is this why so many people have a problem with wingnut Republicans and their policies?

  31. 35

    Libertarian spews:

    If you’re not a fan of wealth distribution, then let me be the first to congratulate you.

  32. 37

    Libertarian spews:

    Sorry, momus, et. al., I meant wealth “re-distribution”, not wealth distribution.

  33. 39

    JCH spews:


    Umm, Ugg…Why?

    Comment by marks — 2/3/06 @ 6:53 pm [marks, because without me, HA would be a circle jerk of pussy, wimp, liberal Democrat “victims” and/or “guvment” employee hacks all bitching and moaning about how they can’t get dates.]

  34. 40

    marks spews:


    marks has succumbed to the virulent form of trollitis, a horrid form of eczema based on proximity to infected trolls. marks scratched himself to death. JCH insists he has nothing to do with marks’ passing…

  35. 41

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Kevin Carns @53

    “have against America”

    I was wondering the same thing myself — what do you have against America? You’re sure trying to wreck it.

  36. 42

    Rev. A.A. Tappman: Anababtist spews:

    Any troll from uSP that posts comments here that are in any way critical of a liberal viewpoint should be immediately BANNED — like they do at uSP to us. The time for fair play on our part and deception and dishonesty on theirs should be long gone.

    Push the bastards up against the wall and keep on hitting until they go down. Fuckin’ worthless Nazis.

  37. 43

    Dave Gibney spews:

    Gee, that whole long page of Republicans, and they didn’t even metion our own Jim West :( Who, I guess I have to admit was never proven to touch underage. Just newly adult 18 year olds.

  38. 44

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Reply to 50

    No, I’m not a supporter of the GOP plan to take money from the poor and middle class, and redistribute it to corporate robbers. My electric and natural gas bills have tripled since the neoCONS took over the government and turned it into a private investment bank for their own benefit.

  39. 45

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Kevin Carns @53

    What a fucking hypocrite you are! If Democrats object to 1 judge, you whiney little crybabies screech like stuck pigs. When we were the majority, your side blocked over 100 of Clinton’s judicial appointments and, as another poster pointed out, you pathetic cockroaches actually shut down the government.

    Well, just wait until this November … the only thing that can save you now is rigged voting machines … all the polls show approximately two-thirds of the public is fed up with your right-wing lies and corruption!!!

  40. 46

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “I don’t really think it is likely that people are paid to come onto this blog and be disruptive.”

    Exactly what do you think Kevin Carns was/is doing?

  41. 48

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “When will we the people stop playing partician politics and hold the politicians responsible to do what’s best for The State of Washington and America.”

    Will, this is how things have to be until the right-wing cancer has been cut out of American politics. We’re confronted with a group of people who practice the politics of annihilation, and don’t believe in negotiation, compromise, or accomodation. Those of us on the other side have no choice; we have to stand up to these fascists, or go down. They, not us, started the shit slinging. We’re gonna finish it.

  42. 49

    JCH spews:

    Windie, “Can’t we just all ge………..get along”? [R. King, felon, wife beater, doper, Democrat]

  43. 50

    Donnageddon spews:

    windie, I certainly understand the frustration with the disruptive idiocy of TROLLS like JCH, momus and Mark The Redneck.

    But when you watch their posts it become obvious the harm they are doing for the Republican Party. Sure the Republicans actually do think like JCH, momus and MTR, but they don’t want their insane agenda publicized so openly.

    I think it is better to have the source of the stench of the right wing exposed to the light. Every racist, misogynistic post by these nuts is another pall bearer to the death the right wing zombie brigade.

    So, I say: C’mon JCH post another Hitler Youth Racist diatribe!

    C’mon MTR, explain to all us Donks how vagina’s make women stupid!

    Momus, more lunatic ravings please!

  44. 51

    JCH spews:

    marks, I’m delighted you “enjoyed” “Bareback Mounting”. Many in Democrat Gay Hollywierd are pleased as well!!

  45. 54

    JCH spews:

    Don, You need to lighten up. Why not call Windie and “take in” a movie tonight. Say, “Bareback Mounting”? Don’t forget the KY Warming Gel!

  46. 56

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Stefan — I know you read this blog — why aren’t you going to share the loot from your lawsuit against King County with the generous donors to your “legal action fund” who paid for the lawsuit?

  47. 57

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hey Stefan, why do you read HorsesAss? Because your own sucky little blog is so pathetic?

  48. 58

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Roger Rabbit has posted 100% of the comments on this thread. If you don’t like it, there’s an affectionate armadillo awaiting you!!!

  49. 59

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Wow, this thread already has 5 comments! That’s as much as Sucky Politics gets in a whole day! Long live HorsesAss!!!

  50. 60

    Drivel spews:

    On Detroit (not the Seahawks) It seems that the only way the automakers can bail themselves out this time is to copy a time in their history. During WW2 they retooled their lines and went full bore on military craft. Now is the time for them to do the same. Retool their lines and go full bore on ‘hybrids’. Their is no future in their current lines of gas hogs and SUV’s. We are ‘addicted’ to oil (much as it makes me feel dirty copying GWB). Now is the time, fore go the next few quarters of earnings and do the right thing. Everyone knows that they will not have the current situation in place forever and it could change as quickly as November. Imagine that, no more handouts, no more bail outs, no more scrapping their retirement plans. Do the right thing!!!

    (and G/UFUS (for his g spot that Rujax dominates), what are your comments on this?

  51. 61

    Drivel spews:

    WMD = ‘words of mass deception’ and GWB and his henchmen are tremendous spinners on this topic

  52. 63

    Drivel spews:

    Will the three ‘mob’ guys in the Miami trial get the death sentence, or will GWB give them each a judgeship?

  53. 64

    momus spews:


    I could not agree with you more.

    Concentrating hybrid vehicles, alternative fuels a dn revamping detroits inability to manufacture a vehicle that last longer than 100,000 miles is brilliant direction.

    Oh, and at that same time, crush the union stanglehold on the auto industries….

  54. 65

    Drivel spews:

    Will the spider ‘web of mass deception’ lead to GWB before 2008? (lol, it already has!)

  55. 66

    Drivel spews:

    by the definition of ‘ethics’ it is completely impossible for the RepucliCONS to pass meaningfull legislation concerning ‘ethics’.

  56. 67

    Drivel spews:

    Dick Cheney had more important things to do than serve his Country! By the looks of it he must still be looking for those ‘things’ as he has not done any ‘service’ to his Country in the past six years!

  57. 70

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It’s soooo Republican to cut $39 billion from student loans, medical care for the poor, and enforcing child support in the name of deficit reduction … then INCREASE the deficit by voting for another $70 billion of tax cuts for the rich!! Republicans have fucked up priorities.

  58. 71

    Drivel spews:

    RepubliCON’s only priorities are themselves. They will be written in history as the most corrupt, self serving, egotistical idiots of all time!

  59. 72

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Momus Pompous Assus @10

    “Concentrating hybrid vehicles, alternative fuels a dn revamping detroits inability to manufacture a vehicle that last longer than 100,000 miles is brilliant direction. Oh, and at that same time, crush the union stanglehold on the auto industries….”

    All of that is the unions’ fault? I thought MANAGEMENT designed the cars … God, you’re stupid, even for a trollfuck!!! Or maybe you just have an agenda to attack unions no matter what …

    Hey Pompous Assus, are you a CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVE???

    The Cheap-Labor Conservatives’ “Dirty Secret”: They Don’t Really Like Prosperity

    “Maybe you don’t believe that cheap-labor conservatives like unemployment, poverty and ‘cheap labor’. Consider these facts. Unemployment was 23 percent when FDR took office in 1933. It dropped to 2.5 percent by time the next Republican was in the White House in 1953. It climbed back to 6.5 percent by the end of the Eisenhower administration. It dropped to 3.5 percent by the time LBJ left office. It climbed over 5 percent shortly after Nixon took office, and stayed there for 27 years, until Clinton brought it down to 4.5 percent early in his second term.

    “That same period – especially from the late forties into the early seventies – was the ‘golden age’ of the United States. We sent men to the moon. We built our Interstate Highway system. We ended segregation in the South and established Medicare. In those days, a single wage earner could support an entire family on his wages. I grew up then, and I will tell you that life was good – at least for the many Americans insulated from the tragedy in Vietnam, as I was.

    “These facts provide a nice background to evaluate cheap-labor conservative claims like ‘liberals are destroying America.’ In fact, cheap-labor conservatives have howled with outrage and indignation against New Deal liberalism from its inception in the 1930’s all the way to the present. …

    “The ugly truth is that cheap-labor conservatives just don’t like working people. They don’t like ‘bottom up’ prosperity, and the reason for it is very simple. Lords have a harder time kicking them around. Once you understand this about the cheap-labor conservatives, the real motivation for their policies makes perfect sense. Remember, cheap-labor conservatives believe in social hierarchy and privilege, so the only prosperity they want is limited to them. They want to see absolutely nothing that benefits the guy – or more often the woman – who works for an hourly wage.”


  60. 73

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Comment on my post @16

    As the majority of students, poor people, and recipients of child support services are women, it’s obvious that


  61. 75

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Mark the Redneck aka Kevin Carns is a good example of a Republican who hates women. He thinks women aren’t good for anything except looking at and fucking. No wonder he’s divorced, paying child support, and can’t get a date!

    Come to think of it, the attitudes of Republicans and Islamic militants toward women are remarkably similar — they think women are chattel property to be used by their husbands as sex objects. It logically follows that


  62. 76

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Kevin Carns @20

    Hey Kevin, if you convert your Vette to run on hot air, you can drive it free!!!

  63. 77

    JCH spews:

    16.RR, Your “redistribute the wealth” Marxism is showing! [You seem very bitter this morning [Afternoon on the East Coast].

  64. 78

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Roger Rabbit has posted 47.8% of the comments in this thread! If you don’t like it, go post on Sucky Politics. There’s no Roger Rabbit over there.

  65. 79

    JCH spews:


    Comment by Roger Rabbit — 2/3/06 @ 10:36 am [That not what your wife and daughter said last night!]

  66. 80

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Kevin Carns @23

    “16.RR, Your ‘redistribute the wealth’ Marxism is showing! [You seem very bitter this morning [Afternoon on the East Coast]. “Comment by JCH— 2/3/06 @ 10:38 am”

    I’m not a socialist, but I’ll make an exception for you — I’ll redistribute YOUR wealth just to FUCK you over!! And who gives a fuck what time it is on the East Coast.

  67. 81

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Kevin Carns @25

    “That not what your wife and daughter said last night!”

    50.6% of my kids are females, and they all love me!!!

  68. 82

    JCH spews:

    RepubliCON’s only priorities are themselves. They will be written in history as the most corrupt, self serving, egotistical idiots of all time!

    Comment by Drivel — 2/3/06 @ 10:28 am [What is this? Marxist Appreciation Day? The average American family pays 30-40% of their income in direct and/or indirect taxes. How much more before “Atlas Shruggeds”???]

  69. 85

    JCH spews:

    “Tax the private sector for my pension until…well, until it justs leaves the state!!” [Roger Rabbit] [Atlas has Shrugged, RR. The “redistribute the wealth” game is over.]

  70. 86

    EXPERT from BOEING spews:

    FROM THE SEATTLE TIMES – TODAY – RIGHT ON, THREE CHEERS ( Written by a Blethen, the Family which owns same)

    The generational disconnect on homosexual rights

    Leaders of the fight against civil rights need to give up their crusade. Their notions of sin and sexuality belong in another era, to decades past when women could not vote, black people drank from designated fountains and gays and lesbians were beaten into false lives.

    This generational disconnect was on full display the past couple of weeks as gray-haired legislators and salt-and-pepper-bearded pastors tried to deny a law that granted gays and lesbians the rights heterosexuals and minorities have long enjoyed.

    It was significant that the civil-rights law passed largely because of a Gen-X Republican’s vote. Sen. Bill Finkbeiner, R-Kirkland, was quoted from the Senate floor in The Seattle Times as saying, “We don’t choose who we love. The heart chooses who we love. I don’t believe it’s right for us to say … it’s acceptable to discriminate against people because of that. I cannot stand with that argument.”

    The future of civil rights lies with Finkbeiner and other Gen-X and -Y politicians not yet elected. It will be important for this cohort to be active between now and November. That is when a misguided Tim Eyman referendum or initiative to undo what was done in Olympia could be on the ballot. No doubt the Eyman campaign will be loudly backed by the familiar faces of opposition, who will trot out the same tired reasons, too numerous and faulty to list here, to gain signatures.

    One of the reasons used to try to tank any civil rights aimed at gays and lesbians is the claim that those rights will lead to same-sex marriage. On this point, the opposition is correct. Thank goodness. (Before moving on, let’s drop the labels. The weddings I attend this summer will not be called “heterosexual” weddings and the people involved will not be in “hetero-marriages.” So let’s not label marriage as gay. Call it what it is: marriage).

    Now that gays and lesbians have legal safeguards that grant them the same rights as the rest of us, it only makes sense that our state give all its adult citizens the right to marry. To not address this inequity would be wrong and perpetuate dated discrimination. Adding momentum to the debate is an expected ruling by the state Supreme Court on marriage.

    What the defenders of virtue do not understand is the role marriage has played in the lives of younger generations. The “sanctity of marriage” has become a meaningless slogan when used to perpetuate morals in an age of divorce. We either grew up in a divorced family or had numerous friends whose parents’ marriage habits were like those of dating, middle-school kids. Gays and lesbians certainly could do no worse.

    Is the institution of marriage really going to suffer if gays and lesbians are allowed to make the decision to marry? Not a chance. Religious institutions, including the Roman Catholic Church, would not have to condone state-sanctioned marriage.

    Not much has changed in heavily Catholic Massachusetts, where marriage was made legal for all by that state’s Supreme Court in 2003. According to the National Vital Statistics Reports put out by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, between the months of January and May in Massachusetts there were 6,753 divorces in 2003, 5,984 in 2004 and 5,137 in 2005. Marriages increased by about 1,000 during the same three years.

    So what exactly is the threat? Seems to me the real threat to family is teaching intolerance. We are in an era of unrivaled global interaction that begs for understanding. If American children are taught that their friends and neighbors are a threat to the fiber of family, they cannot be expected to make the leap of comprehension needed to be a world citizen.

    The disconnect is not excusable. What the gray-beards must realize is that my generation sees co-workers and friends in same-sex relationships. We watch sitcoms and movies with gay characters. We read novels where lesbians grace the pages. I was shocked by my first compact disc, not my first gay bar.

    The elders need only to flip the issue and consider the future, a future of equality beyond them, but in the grasp of their children.

    Ryan Blethen’s column appears regularly on editorial pages of The Times. His e-mail address is

  71. 87

    windie spews:

    I was thinkin’ Do is there any way we could try to get the Kevin Carns/paid to disrupt blogs bit of skullduggery into the MSM? Its probably not illegal, but its certainly scummy… And a chance to help embarass the Republicans with their own slimy tactics makes me feel all funny inside ;)

  72. 88

    JCH spews:

    Drival, The first time you get into an accident in your pissant hybrid vehicle, you will be calling every Democrat lawyer named Loeb, Stren, Goldystein, or Goodman to sue the auto company that produced that POS. “Oh, I didn’t know that I would be hurt sooo badly when I pulled out in front of that SUV” Classic Democrat…….. “I’m a victim”. “I just didn’t know”. “Someone should be held responsible because I’m a dumb ass”. ‘I just had to save the world”. [hehe]

  73. 89

    windie spews:

    also, JCH: do you get paid more for JCH posts or Momus posts? Or does it matter at all?

  74. 90

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Kevin Carns @28

    “The average American family pays 30-40% of their income in direct and/or indirect taxes.”

    Gee, I wonder why? Because wealthy Republicans set up housekeeping in the Cayman Islands so they don’t have to pay U.S. taxes? (They prefer to send other people’s money on weaponry and wars.)

  75. 91

    JDB spews:

    Well, Wes got to this before me, but here is another story of Republican’s not being able to count votes or vote fairly that you won’t read over at the minnows site:

    He will give you a story about how he has made it easier for people like himself to invade your privacy and steal your identity though. The minnow, what a perv. No wonder he uses a fake name.

  76. 92

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Kevin Carns @28 (continued)

    “The average American family pays 30-40% of their income in direct and/or indirect taxes.”

    Another reason might be the enormous cost of Bush’s wars, or the hundreds of billions in subsidies to Big Pharma and HMOs, or the billions in gifts to Big Oil, or …

  77. 93

    Good Dog spews:

    There’s a bumper sticker out there that says, “Somewhere in Texas, A Village is Missing Its Idiot.” It’s an obvious slam on GWB. Cindy Sheehan recently moved from Vacaville, CA to Berkeley, and the citizens of Vacaville are thinking about putting out a bumper sticker that reads, “Our Idiot left, and We Don’t Miss Her at All!”.

  78. 94

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Kevin Carns @28 (continued)

    “The average American family pays 30-40% of their income in direct and/or indirect taxes.”

    Whatever the reason, you can’t blame the poor, because the poor aren’t getting the money — not for welfare, not for student loans, not for medical care, not for child support enforcement — nope, under Bush’s regime, the money you pay in taxes goes to the rich and powerful.

  79. 95

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Just stating facts, Kevin. By the way, do you know what a “wheel” is? Momus Pompous Assus doesn’t.

  80. 96

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “Bush freed millions of Iraqi women!!”

    If they’re so free how come they still wear veils in public, and why can’t they stick their head outdoors without getting it shot off?

  81. 97

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Kevin Carns @31

    “‘Tax the private sector for my pension until…well, until it justs leaves the state!!’ [Roger Rabbit] [Atlas has Shrugged, RR. The “redistribute the wealth” game is over.] Comment by JCH— 2/3/06 @ 10:48 am”

    Do you post this shit just because you enjoying hearing your own lies? As I’ve stated many times, I’ve never received one cent of taxpayer-financed pension … every cent of pension money I’ve ever received is MY OWN MONEY that was DEDUCTED FROM MY PAYCHECKS. What part of that do you not understand, you lying sack of shit?