A great example of why church and state should always remain absolutely separate:
The mayor of Winter Garden, Fla. on Thursday had a man removed from a City Commission meeting after he refused to stand during an opening prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance.
As an atheist, I absolutely dread those stand and pray-or-pledge moments. And while I like to tell myself that I now stand out of respect to others, the truth is, my obeisance comes as much from a fear of standing (well, sitting) out as it does the desire to politely observe a societal norm. I got my share of nasty stares and verbal attacks when I was younger and more defiant. It just didn’t seem worth it.
But I never recite the Pledge of Allegiance—the “under God” part just sticks in my craw. And ironically, were I an observant Jew, I’m not sure I could pledge my allegiance to a flag regardless, a notion that sure does seem to contravene the second commandment prohibition on bowing down to graven images, at least in spirit.
So while some might click through the link and come back to argue that the man was tossed out for refusing to stand for the pledge, not the prayer, I’d argue same difference. As long as “under God” is in there, the pledge is a prayer. And as such it can always be used as a tool for ostracizing, excluding, and bullying nonbelievers.
Prayer or not, can he be compelled to take part in any speech? Must I demonstrate undying fealty to the federal government to participate in (or even observe) the goings on of a city government?
I never stand for the pledge or the national anthem. I sit quietly in my seat. One, I refuse to pledge allegiance to anything. Two, nationalism is a pathology, not a virtue.
I would never try to force (or even ask) those near me to sit as I choose to do. It is a choice, which is something we allegedly have the freedom to excersize.
This is a Christian nation. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia said so. We either stand, as Goldy does, or live a miserable life as a pariah. Unless you’re already a pariah for other reasons, in which case you can happily sit.
Closer to home, a Republican majority on the Pierce Co. Council have decided to have a plaque mounted on the wall of the council meeting room engraved with “In God We Trust” because nothing says being a Republican majority like evangelizing on the public dime.
The list of atrocities committed on behalf of God is endless, and still continues to grow.
An ACLU lawsuit should take care of this.
This sounds like conservatives picking on someone who refuses to pledge allegiance to a government they themselves hate and use every opportunity to weaken and destroy.
Meanwhile Ted (Canada) Cruz is asking why Obama can’t be more like Putin. Now who’s unpatriotic here?
Near Florida, and not about the Pledge, but here are Georgia Republicans kicking a journalist out of a public political event, but unlike Goldy’s experience with McKenna, violently.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/d.....burts-farm
@9 Well lessee, I see assault and battery, false arrest and false imprisonment by both the GOP thug (private party) and sheriff’s deputy (acting in official capacity under color of law, so we also have Section 1983 civil rights violations and jurisdiction to sue in federal courts), so I’d guess the compensatory damages will be roughly $75,000, jointly and severally against the Georgia GOP, Dawson County Sheriff, and whoever that Republican thug was; additionally, Georgia law allows punitive damages of up to 3 times compensatory damages, limited to $250,000, so I’d put the final settlement in this case at around $225,000. That’s the same amount King County paid Stefan Sharkansky to settle alleged Public Records Act paperwork irregularities, so it doesn’t seem excessive to me.
There’s nothing new about GOPers physically assaulting people:
“A Florida man has filed a lawsuit against Newt Gingrich and his security team — claiming he was roughed up outside the Florida Republican Presidential Primary … because he was carrying a sign supporting [Ron Paul].”
http://www.tmz.com/2012/02/04/.....z3CAUUWv00
“A Texas man is suing a Republican state lawmaker and her husband over what he calls months of attacks with a Taser while working for [their car dealership].”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201.....e-tazings/
“Representative Don Young (R-AK) was caught on tape … when he forcefully grabbed the wrist of a Congressional staffer who was [assigned to guard a door entrance].”
http://aattp.org/caught-on-cam.....fer-video/
Of course, these privileged assholes think they have a God-given right to push other people around. If one of them ever tries that with me,
he won’t be having sex for a while.
I once read a book about the law suit that resulted in school-lead prayers and Bible readings declared unconstitutional in public schools– Abington School District vs. Schempp. One of the families involved said their child got in trouble during the morning Bible reading because while he would sit quietly, he refused to bow his head. Good grief. Some schools must have been totally clueless.
@12 That, in a nutshell, is why America needs the ACLU.
Of course, the sheriff has already completed its investigation and found the everything was done properly, so the reporter is likely going to have to rely solely on the civil route.
My mother was in High School when the words, “under god,” were added to the Pledge of Allegiance. (Red-blooded 100% Americans being scared silly of the atheistic Commies back then.) In addition to breaking up the rhythm of the Pledge (try saying it with and without the two extra words; the difference is startling), on the first day of school that year, nobody knew where in the Pledge to put the two new words! It was an education for her, albeit probably not one the editors intended.
We never speak the two new words when we recite the Pledge.
@9,
You upset Georgia Republicans are acting like DUMMOCRETINS? http://www.washingtontimes.com...../?page=all
You upset Georgia Republicans are acting like DUMMOCRETINS? http://www.politico.com/blogs/.....78077.html
Oh the shame, the shame of seatackled. Another joke DUMMOCRETIN on HA!
Now the pledge is an interesting concept… Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and give unto God what is God’s!
Do we chastise puddybore for confusing the Christian Bible with our secular government, or should we just rejoice in his knowing something?
@16 Thanks for posting that, putz. I’ve argued for years that Democrats should behave like Republicans. Looks like they’re finally listening.
But we still have a ways to go, as we’re not yet assaulting GOP under cover operatives, knocking away their cameras, physically throwing them out of events, and having them arrested and carted off to jail, like Georgia Republicans do to legitimate journalists.
Looks like North Korea may release their American hostages before Missouri does.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/02/.....?hpt=hp_t3
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/02/.....?hpt=hp_t3