Then Cong. Smith asked for comments, and the comments began. The first question: would this new plan include tax payer support for abortion? The next question, from one of the young fellas sitting in front of me: on page … of the House bill, (reading from a copy he had obtained from the internet) it says plainly that if an individual elects the public insurance option, he can never ever have private insurance again. Then many people in the room started to vocalize and clap, drowning out Cong. Smith’s response, and shouting arguments to him.
He asked for people to line up at the microphones for comments. Many people did line up… They spoke of their distrust of the government; the post office, social security, etc; they did not want their health care in the hands of bureaucrats. Several people said in a very angry tone of voice, I just want you (Cong. Smith) to be the first to take this new public insurance, and see how YOU like it. At this, the people in the room jeered, some shook their fists, some said angrily Yeah!
When Cong Smith then took a question from an elderly person sitting up front, who had not lined up at the microphone, a young man shouted loudly that she should wait her turn, why did HE have to stand up if she didn’t… Much supportive vocalization from the seated people. More comments from the next person at the microphone: People who are uninsured now can afford to buy insurance, they just don’t. Many people qualify for medicaid and they just don’t bother. The statistics of infant mortality (the US being number 42 or so in industrialized countries) are false…
So um, hey, maybe reporters could say, walk up to these “opponents” and ask them basic stuff. It wouldn’t be that hard, if there were reporters available and if they knew how to do their jobs and stuff. Just an idea. I guess it’s kind of hard to do since so many veteran political reporters are not working for newspapers any longer.
All this “anger,” and nobody to cover it. If editorial boards ever caught wind of this from reading their own newspapers, fainting couches and smelling salts would be in darn short supply. There is nothing more horrible than partisan incivility, as the editorial boards so frequently remind us.
(Props to WFSE Political Blog.)
They want to be loud fine, then we need to be louder.
John, you’ve got the job. You don’t have to try to impress Goldy by manufacturing disgust at editorial boards.
So…don’t like the tactics used by the left turned against you? But the people are increasingly seeing that ObamaCare is an empty suit, a loss of choice, expensive beyond imagination, bureaucratically stiffling, and stupid.
The people united will never be defeated.
Don’t like it when you’re on the end of that, eh what? And it’s happening all over the country – the unbridled and spontaneous will and voice of the people.
Fascinating…
The Piper
Yeah they got the majority of the people with them? Obama has a nearly 20 point lead when it comes to favorability with the GOP when it comes to health care (he has a rating of 53% while the GOP is at 37%) Please let the GOP keep their heads in the sand and let the lobbyists send their drones to these meetings.
The American peeople finally woke up in 2008 and put someone competent in charge.
@4…MJ…
If you’re going to use polling data, then cite a source.
Here’s some from Rasmussen Reports as of July 22:
See also MSNBC where an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll shows decreasing support for ObamaCare.
If support for the plan was so strong, then wouldn’t you expect it to cruise through Congress like you-know-what through the goose? After all, a Democrat Prez, Democrat majorities in the House and Senate, yet it’s bogged down worse than Goldy’s love life.
Shades of 1994 and Hillary Care…
The Piper
re 5: Spewing the party line again? I think you are hoping your side loses, but you are too much of a dickhead to admit it.
If the VA or Medicare worked, I’d be willing to discuss some government involvement in healthcare.
Start with tort reform in the plaintiff’s bar and work backwards from there if you want reform in healthcare.
That slimeball John Edwards (D-East Bumfuck) made $175 million over a 12 year period in medical malpractice cases. And you fucks ran him for VP in 2004.
People need to stop calling it health care reform. It’s insurance reform.
Health care is what the medical professions do.
We’re arguing about whether or not the CEO of an insurance company makes 20 million a year or we pay more of that money to actual health care providers.
Teebagging the town hall comics. I hope Norman Rockwell and FDR will forgive me.
http://artistdogboy.blogspot.c.....eform.html
i have so much confidence in the fact that when the government has its own option, it will allow the insurance companies to compete fair and square. and, i’m sure that paragon of integrity, rahm emanuel, will make sure the government plays fair.
Nobody tell Mr. Scott, but those “spontaneous” expressions of the “will of the people?” Not so much. Actually, not at all.
Think Brooks Brothers.
Or think Brownshirts.
Right-Wing Harassment Strategy Against Dems Detailed In Memo: ‘Yell,’ ‘Stand Up And Shout Out,’ ‘Rattle Him’
(In best “Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood” fashion) “Children, can you say, “Astroturfing“? Suuuure you can!”
And this is going on all over the country. How about all sides, industry and Gub’mint, lay their health care reform cards on the table, face up, and show there’s nothing up their sleeves. This is too important for all this damn-foolishness…
Piper poops: “So…don’t like the tactics used by the left turned against you?”
Marvelous. So when 100 leftys show up and shout down Dave Reichert at a town hall meeting, you will say nothing, right? That would be a first. But then Dave seems disinclined to actually, you know, MEET real actual voters.
@6…EvL…
That the best you’ve got? Pretty pathtetic.
No party line – polling data. Increasingly, people don’t like what might happen to their health care coverage. As for me, I have zero interest in being jammed into some one-size-fits-all gub’mint created healthcare plan.
How is it that the blatant incompetence gub’mint demonstrates every day inspires such confidence among the HA Happy Hooligans that they are positively giddy over ceding fundamental decisions over their healthcare to it?
Let’s take this new development: No bucks. Tax receipts are now projected to fall off the table, with individual income tax receipts down 22 percent and corporate taxes down 57 percent. Where’s the money going to come from to pay for this?
The reality of it, as clearly expressed by CBO director Douglas Elmendorf, is that, instead of driving down costs, ObamaCare will shoot them through the roof.
Where will the money come from?
The Piper
@13, but didnt you know piper? The evil rich will pay for everything!
oh wait, the administration just announced that taxes for the middle class are going to go up too…hhmmm, strange he never mentioned that during the elections….
As for me, I have zero interest in being jammed into some one-size-fits-all gub’mint created healthcare plan.
Thank goodness not one of the proposals moving through Congress does anything of the sort.
Mr. Scott wrestles with straw and loses.
Hey Puper:
you’re a lying sack of shit. When has the liberal wing of the Democratic party ever disrupted a town hall to discuss Bush tax cuts or any town hall with a republican congressman?
This is real threats and intimidation, organized by Armey’s right wing think tanks. You traitorous scum did this in the Florida election recounts, too, deliberately disrupting governmental process. You’re beyond scum. You tout traditional American values and the founding fathers and in this you act like the Nazis in the stage just before they started grabbing the microphone, or hitting people in the street that they disagree with.
This organized deliberate disruption of town halls that you support shows you, Piper, have no moral core. You are no patriot. You defend illegal and unfair tactics that could hurt out nation and violate its ideals.
You are scum.
re 13: No. It’s not the best. But right and reason wouldn’t make a difference to you, anyway.
It would be pearls before corporatist swine-flu.
Ah, I see Piper’s back to slaying creatures made of straw, but that’s not even the more interesting part of his argument.
First, the government is “incompetent,” but, then, Piper’s not above citing the comments of an “incompetent” government official in support of his argument.
When slaying straw creatures, one at least has the opportunity to present a coherent argument, yet Piper fails even to manage such a simple achievement.
Frankly, it’s difficult to understand exactly what Piper objects to, though it would seem that Piper’s objecting to the notion of a “public option” for health insurance, but that doesn’t make is argument any better.
Indeed, if government is as incompetent as Piper claims, he should welcome a public option for health insurance. Here’s a chance for us to clearly demonstrate the private sector’s vaunted superiority over government, yet Piper doesn’t want us to avail ourselves of this opportunity.
Piper asks:
“Where will the money come from?”
Again, Piper’s argument is flawed, as it fails to distinguish between cyclical deficits and structural deficits. When government revenues are falling dramatically due to a recession, then we’re talking about a cyclical deficit, not a structural deficit.
If Piper’s argument were to properly uphold this distinction between cyclical and structural deficits, the answer to that question would be obvious. Indeed, the question itself becomes entirely moot.
Lastly, Piper doesn’t have an alternative policy proposal that would reduce health care costs over the next decade and well into subsequent decades. Indeed, Piper doesn’t have any form of counter policy proposal whatsoever. Piper’s alternative policy proposal is the status quo, which nearly everyone believes will leave us all bankrupt in the not-too-distant-future.
@15 – 18…HA Happy Hooligans…
So…in response to data and facts, all you have to offer is name calling, slurs, vitriol, and a complete evasion of the question asked twice: where will the money come from to pay for this so-called healthcare “reform?”
Who will pay for it all?
The Piper
@ 19 Piper spews:
So…in response to data and facts
Data and facts? Which “fact” are you talking about? The alleged “fact” that we’re all giddy about something?
You started with a premise that’s false. Is there any reason to continue addressing any other part of your argument?
Who will pay for it all?
Who will pay for all of what, Piper? So far, the only specific objection you’ve had to the proposals running through Congress right now is the portion that would, supposedly, require us to cede “fundamental decisions over [our] healthcare” to the government. That would be the public option, and the primary objection to the public option is that it would be so efficient as to put private insurance out of business.
What, exactly, are you objecting to other than the broad notion of health care reform in general?
Letter to Piper
Piper. You are either unpatriotic or think heltlhcare is a video game,.
Last weekend We had dinner with a former fellow of mine. He is now a Professor of Cardiology in Japan. His clinic charges 1/2 of what a similar clinic in the US charges. True he is paid less than a colleague here, but Yuji does not have a massive debt from school, doe snot need to put aside a fortune to send his two kids to college, gets the same inexpensive healthcare everyone else does, etc. The quality of his work?
Japan’s healthcare is worldclass!
Ours is good too, but no better and a lot more expensive.
1. Healthcare in the USA costs 50% to 400% more than it does elsewhere. WHO PAYS THE BILL?
We do. Our businesses will never be comeptive if they have to bear this burdfen.
2. There is no free market in US healthcare.
Up to 80% of people
.. in some states are insured by a single company.
Patients usually have only the choices allowed by their employers.
3. Helathcare elsewhere is so good that Americans have begun health tourism
Contrary to the reprican fear mongering , Americans are going to cheaper countries for healthcare they can not afford here. Is healthcare the next industry we want to offshore?
4. We are unprepared for emergencies
Our hospitals emulate our car companies .. they use ajjust in time model that means we strive for near 100% occupancy. That is fine UNTIL .. the big one hits … an epidemic flu could bankrupt the US.
5. A medical education implies ~$300,000 ihn debts
Hang that around a young person’s neck and then ask them to cut costs.
So,Piper, DON’T FIX IT. Tie a rock around our econiomy and throw it over the side.
The Busheviks arrested and carted off to jail anyone who showed up for a Bush “town hall” whom they suspected might be thinking “unclean” thoughts, e.g., merely having a peace sticker on your car could get you thrown out.
I don’t think any Democratic congressman should go that far, but if these yahoos disrupt constituent meetings they should call the police and have them removed from the meetng and cited for disorderly conduct.
A $250 fine might teach these democracy saboteurs to respect other people’s right to hear and be heard by the folks they elected to represent them in Congress.
@3 “So…don’t like the tactics used by the left turned against you?”
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Rightwing extremists are the people who want to suppress dissent, shout down opponents, and undermine our democracy.
@5 “If you’re going to use polling data, then cite a source.”
The poll that counts was conducted on Nov. 4, 2008. Have you already forgotten how that one turned out?
@7 So you think VA and Medicare don’t work, eh? OK, how about if you suggest taking it away to veterans and seniors — better yet, persuade your party’s candidates to campaign on that issue — and see how it turns out for you. Dickhead.
We can now add veterans and senior citizens to the list of groups whom wingnuts hate.
@19 “When slaying straw creatures, one at least has the opportunity to present a coherent argument, yet Piper fails even to manage such a simple achievement.”
Maybe this provides some insight into why he’s not a lawyer anymore, although you’ve got to wonder how he became a lawyer in the first place. The bar exam must have gotten easier after I took it.
@19 Piper
Who will pay?
The dirty little secret is that we will and ARE paying for it. About 20% of the bankruptcy of GM came from healthcare. Boeing is taxed to pay for our effed up system now.
The USA now pays 50 to 100% more/per patient for its healthcare than anyone else.
If the Repricans were not such godmaned traitors to our country THEY would be pushing hard for reforms as well. Here are a few examples where a rational right might help:
1. Insurance. We CANNOT have a national pool because the interstate commerce clause means states control healthcare costs. As a result, in most states one or two companies control the market.
A conservative somlution? Inforce monopoly laws in state markets. Or, offer federal incentives (as wde do in schools and roads) for opening the state markets.
2. Education and Licensing Offer scholarships in return for service. We already do this for docs willing to go into the military. We can also set national stahndardfs for medical liscensing including a bigger role foir nurse practitioners.
3. Open the Federal Plan We already have a model for healthcare .. the federal plan that federal employees and elected ones use. Why not use this as the seed for a national plan?
@20 The alleged “vitriol” @17 is well justified by the facts. Republicans do, in fact, behave like Nazis against their political opponents.
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/90700/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/w.....ters_x.htm
@21-24…HA Happy Hooligands…
Here are 12 questions to ask Senators and Congressmen when you see them. Pay particular attention to question 12:
After you address the questions, tell me why the polling data shows increasing opposition to ObamaCare. Don’t resort to cliches or crap ripped from HuffPo or the DailyKus, but address the shortfalls in the proposal and how they should be fixed.
Then tell me again where the money will come from to pay for it? Address Douglas Elmendorf’s budget issues. Then deal with what Timothy Geithner and Larry Summers said about keeping open the option of middle-class tax hikes to pay for all profligate spending going on.
The policy wonks and the political hacks in the White House can’t seem to get their stories straight.
Again…who will pay the bill for this new program?
The Piper
Many dentists earn over £200,000
Nearly 1,200 dentists in England and Wales earned over £200,000 in the financial year 2007-08, official figures show.
Thought this bon mot from the BBC might interest Piper.
What “bills?” There are several versions now. If you think we should not make insurance mandatory, then would you also end all “free” care?
Again what bill?
Moreover what do you mean by a small business? How many small business can stay in usiness when 30% of all bakruptcies are because of healthcare costs?
Persoally, I think we should unlink healthcare entirely from ANY job. Why should Beoing be paying fo9r healthcare? BUT to do that we need an alternative. What is yours?
Errr … how do you think the system works now? If Boeing decides not to allow you to go to Swedish, your choices are????? (Hint5: Repuboicans do not go on strike.)
Which “bills?” As long as we have the CURRENT sustem then of course unions can bargain for health care just as individuals can. Non union workwers are NOW often uninsured.
The deficit is a lot more complex than you relaize. Driving companies and people into bankruptcy raises the deficit too.
I assume then you support the proposal to raise taxes on the wealthy?
Which “bill”?
If we have a government system why not just put all medicare on that?
First, thi is a REPUBLICAN proposal. Second, show me ANY text in ANYT bill where the intent is “to deny health care to elderly citizens, people with disabilities, and others the health of whom certain appointed experts think is not worth improving.”. Third, all minsyurancre companies now do exactly this.
I would be more worried about breast enhancements and liposuction and orthodonture. How do you feel about Viagra ..should it be rationed?
answer: Because the MAXIMUM estimate of the effects of such legislation is 1% of helathcare costs. The real impact of litigation is very specialty specific .. eg abortionists need a lot of cover5age.
Damnitall .. which “bil?/” There are several different versions of the public option around. These certainly do include the idea that the government program may be mandated to cover its own costs and not ge able to defer costs to other parts of the system,.
This is a good question. Sadly the radical repuboi8cahns are not addressing it. They are two worried about abortion.
I think this too is a good question. If the rapid right were rational, then making GuvMed the standard for Fed employees would be a good thing. OTOH the gov. has a wide range of emplyees. Do you think that GuvMNed shold be good enough to keep Supreme Court Justices from leaving because they wnat better care in the private sector?
Piper @ 29
Questions 1-12 are complete non-sequiturs based largely on either a misleading, or outright false, representation of the facts.
tell me why the polling data shows increasing opposition to ObamaCare.
Because far too many people are buying into the misrepresentations of fact that underlie Republican talking points.
@31: SJ
Nice job answering the right wing rhetoric.
Health care is broken and the republicans keep insisting it is great. Yes, it will cost some to insure everyone – but the CBO says we will break even over 120 years, insure everyone and with a public options and tax on the wealthy.
Much better than wasting 1 trillion on Iraq and getting…absolutely nothing.
It would indeed be nice if the mainstream press were to cover some of these incidents.
It would be even better if they were to track the money trail back through the organizers, and plaster it all over our front pages and TV screens about where it’s coming from.
@29 Re: Geithner and Summers…You have a point, Piper. Unfortunately, the problem here is that they’re continuing to act in the same manner as the previous administration. It’s a lead-pipe cinch that in a McCain administration, we’d have either Hank Paulson or some other Goldman Sachs alum running Treasury–quite possibly Geithner, in fact. And, of course, were that the case you’d be giving thanks to the high heavens for whatever they did.
…the
unbridledcorporate-organized andspontaneouscarefully scripted will and voice of thepeoplewingnuts.@33 Tx
President Obama has said many times that the proposal is only the first step. We need tools to contain healthcare cots, and a government alternative is an essential tool.
How do you keep Swedish excellent while adressing the explosion of healthcare costs? Let me offer two answers that do not work:
1.Radical Right: Leave things as they are. Ok, then we all go broke.
2. Single Payer: “Everybody gets same care.” That is OK too assuming you want to deep six the excellence we do have.
The answer offered by our President is to create a new tool that allows experimentation outside of the current boundaries.
The theory is create competition and let the market realign itself. By being BIG and by being forced to compete with the private sector, GuvMed will have to experiment. We actually already have the nidus of such a system in Seattle .. Group Health.
Group Health is a socialist concept. I most ways it works very well. because your dues determine the services GH offers, the cooperative has done a number of very impresisve things .. inlcuding use of PAs, electronic records,ijnternet based consultation, etc.
OTOH, what I have not seen is a good cost comparison, How does healthcare at GH comnpare with Primera? That issue would be a great one for responsible republicans (as opposed to rabid repricans) to address.
Another issue that they could addrewss is the very real issue of rationing. Let me give a specific example of one issue. My concern with the new Death with Dignity law is how do we deal with savings to a healthcare plan by early termination of life?
Our CURRENT system offers terminal patients a choice … impoverishment vs. suicide. If you are of modest means, including well into the middle class, the choice between a $50 suicide drink and a $200,000 terminal care bill may well mean whether you leave anything to your spouse.
Is it better to force that choice on middle class Americans or to provide a GuvMed option that includes rationing? Not a pleasant choice but one responsible republicans should raise.
My bottom line .. I am beginning to feel this debate is one sided. On the left we have a large rational crew trying to solve a major problem. On the right we have rabid radicals with no substantive proposals.
Ah, Rasmussen. Do Republicans ever NOT love their poll outliers?
Time, Inc. poll conducted by Abt SRBI. July 27-28, 2009. N=1,002 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3
“Who do you trust more to develop new health care legislation: President Obama, or, Republicans in Congress?”
President Obama 47%
Republicans 32%
CBS News/New York Times Poll. July 24-28, 2009. N=1,050 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3
“Regardless of how you usually vote, who do you think has better ideas about reforming the health care system: Barack Obama, or the Republicans in Congress?”
Barack Obama 55%
Republicans 26%
“Would you favor or oppose the government offering everyone a government-administered health insurance plan — something like the Medicare coverage that people 65 and older get — that would compete with private health insurance plans?”
Favor 66%
Oppose 27%
NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll conducted by the polling organizations of Peter Hart (D) and Bill McInturff (R). July 24-27, 2009. N=1,011 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.1
“When it comes to dealing with health care which party do you think would do a better job: the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, or both about the same? If you think that neither would do a good job, please just say so.”
Democratic Party 40%
Republican Party 23%
All numbers courtesy PollingReport.com
Can we pull #29 for violating posting policy?
@37 The don’t-do-anything option will break down when the system gets hit with some significant additional burden….and it’s not a matter of if…it’s when. I’m not necessarily talking about the H1N1 flu or something like that. The exploding national epidemic of obesity and type 2 diabetes (and all the health complications that accompany them) may push us off the cliff, just a litle more slowly.
SJ
Um, with all due respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about. “single-payer” is about who PAYS FOR care. Where it has been implemented, such as in Canada, the government pays for a standard set of practices, and the people are free to supplement that with private insurance as they desire. It in no way sets the standard of care, decides neither what nor how medicine will be practiced, certainly not any more than private insurance monopolies do now.
In constrast to delbert’s views, Medicare (oops, a SINGLE-PAYER system) and the VA system work very well and are highly regarded.
@39 Actually, Piper has done us a service. For any of us who plans to attend any of the local meetings, you now have in hand a copy of the same script many of the hecklers are likely to be working from.
BTW, rising cost projectiosn for Medicare are a result of rising costs throughout US health care, and are a problem for the privately insured as well as Medicare recipients.
To the privately insured: your premiums are going to skyrocket as the predicted rise in health care costs occur. Employers will cut back coverage and raise priocves to keep up. Do you think that’s a problem?
Do you think if we solve the problem of rising health care costs that we will solve Medicare’s “problem?” Hint: the answer is yes.
It’s rather an interesting piece of doublethink for the right-wing noise machine to be telling people that they have to oppose government health programs because otherwise they might lose Medicare.
Hey great job SJ answering the health insurance industry townhall disruption talking points promulgated by the happy right wing transmission belt, Pooper Scott.
@41 DL
There are many versions of single payer, what they all have in common is setting a standard floor for health care.
The bottom line is that single payer is hard to ache3iove from where we are now because we offer an incredible range of standard care.
I agree with you that if the great bulk of Americans are on a standard care system, then fee for (extra)service can still exist. The question is will it be financially viable and will it be available to as many folks as it is now? In England, the answer is no. Even in Canada, the US system acts as a backup for tho9se wanting more than the single payer system can offer.
Oh man this is just too damn funny:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9xlP.....Page_1.jpg
If your imaginery numbers were even close to true, Obama would be ramming this thru (like he tried to do and FAILED!)
America is waking up to the Socialist Obama is. Remember, Obama’s hero said:
“The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of ‘liberalism’ they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.”
– Norman Thomas, 6-time American Socialist Party Candidate
This is precisely what Obama has done with the Auto Industry, Banking Industry and creating massive debt with Porkulous.
BIG GOVERNMENT—-NO SALE mike
7. delbert spews:
You are right on.
The Democrat’s are not proposing any serious Tort Reform. WHY?? Because the BAR and Unions run the Democrat Party!
And remember always delbert, the actual Malpractice JUDGMENTS are the tip of the iceberg.
The real cost of ambulance chasers is the massive cost increase of excessive tests & procedures for Docs and Nurses to cover their asses from ambulance chasers.
Close to 1/2 of the tests & drugs are Attorney/lawsuit driven.
But for the “Progressives” it’s about another stride toward Big Government takeover of our way of life.
SeattleJew @ 22–
Ummmmm, you missed one major cost item we have that the Japanese don’t….an out of control legal system!!
Nice of you to totally ignore that huge item to make your…point??
C’mon, you spend all this time evaluating Health Care Systems and lawyers in US have had no impact on cost???
Gimmee a break.
Try again…after you sober up.
And let’s be reminded of O-blah-blah-blah’s other hero’s thinking–
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.
How about tying a rock around the neck of Malpractice MAGGOTS and throwing them overboard??
You know damn well a massive amount of medical tests & procedures are unnecessary…yet dictated by legal cases.
Where is Tort Reform???
Why do you feel it is unnecessary?
Cynical, Delbert, etc.
Malpractice verdicts, insurance premiums, and even extra services designed to avoid lawsuits, all combined, only make up 1% of health care spending. And no, 1/2 of the tests and drugs aren’t to avoid malpractice lawsuits, you pulled that one out of your nether regions.
What insurance companies want to do is to continue to charge doctors outrageous premiums for malpractice insurance, while at the same time paying out virtually nothing.
It is actually very hard to win a malpractice insurance case. From the start, you have to get at least one other doctor to say that the defendant screwed up. Doctor’s don’t do that lightly, on the contrary they tend to stick together.
By the way, the large malpractice verdicts are almost always caused by the very expensive long-term care the victim will have to receive over the course of their remaining life. Brain injuries or paralysis tend to have that affect. But if you bring down medical costs generally, then you reduce the cost of such long-term care, thereby reducing malpractice verdits.
Hurray for Rep. Lloyd Doggett, one of the targets of Mr. Scott’s Brownshirt Tea Bagging Brigade:
“This mob, sent by the local Republican and Libertarian parties, did not come just to be heard, but to deny others the right to be heard. And this appears to be part of a coordinated, nationwide effort. What could be more appropriate for the “party of no” than having its stalwarts drowning out the voices of their neighbors by screaming “just say no!” Their fanatical insistence on repealing Social Security and Medicare is not just about halting health care reform but rolling back 75 years of progress. I am more committed than ever to win approval of legislation to offer more individual choice to access affordable health care. An effective public plan is essential to achieve that goal.”
Well done, Congressman.
I also work with a lot of very smart and well-educated Japanese nationals, Koreans, and even Chinese. They are all very well-traveled, and they can’t believe our health care/insurance system is so convoluted and backwards. Except in an emergency, they go home for medical exams and treatment, even though they are covered by insurance here. They say the care they get is better back home, and there is no additional cost to them. (The one exception: dentistry).
By the way, I know a guy from Boeing who is stationed in Japan. I saw him a couple of weeks ago when he came home on his annual leave. He said he made sure he was caught up on his physicals, etc. before he came back to the U.S. He raved about how easy it was to get health care in Japan, and he wanted to make sure he wasn’t going to have to get health care while in the U.S. – even though he’s covered by Boeing insurance plans.
Funny how the Republicans have been stalwart enemies of Medicare. In the 1960’s and 70’s they argued it was an immoral transfer of funds from the wealthy to the poor. Then in the 1980’s they argued it was inefficient and broken, and needed to be junked. Now trolls like Delbert attack Medicare as being socialist AND inefficient.
But even Republican politicians know not to attack Medicare directly, it is too popular. They leave that to the trolls. But Republican politicians DO try to scare seniors into opposing health care insurance reform by arguing that it would hurt Medicare.
Pretty inconsistent, don’t you think?
50 Cyn
Cynical, you ignorant slut.
RR in here the other day completely skewered the “malpractice” argument. In short, name a frivolous malpractice case that has won.
But you also make a claim in this post (gotta be a first!). Actually, you made a couple of claims:
Not even remotely close. He did heave several malpractice suits early in his career. Guess what? The jury decided that there was malpractice, which means there was, and pretty obvious and blatant malpractice at thet, because these suits are hard to win. Heck it was only “permanent brain and nerve damage” after a doctor prescribed an overdose of the anti-alcoholism drug Antabuse during alcohol aversion therapy in one case, and a five-year-old child born with cerebral palsy whose doctor did not choose to perform an immediate Caesarean delivery when a fetal monitor showed she was in distress in another. Nothing to see here, folks, right.
But his largest and most remunerative case was a product liability lawsuit against Sta-Rite, the manufacturer of a defective pool drain cover that literally disemboweled a little five-year-old girl. These are the people who will lose if your beloved “tort reform” becomes a reality: children injured by shortcut-taking, iresponsible corporate entities.
But let’s go on…
Close to one-half of the tests performed and and drugs prescribed across ALL patients for ALL conditions are lawsuit driven? Yeah, care to back up THAT one?
Believe me, no one gives a crap about your way of life.
53. rhp6033 spews:
Give me your source rhp..
I have been told by a number of docs it is this serious.
Re; The frivolous lawsuits awards canard…
…so the poor little insurance companies cannot afford to hire competent litigators who can win malpractice cases and prove that a particular suit has no merit?
Fuck! Them damn IN-surance companies need better lawyers, by god…maybe they can hire somebody like Edwards to work for THEM since they are the downtrodden minority now.
(the stupid…it burns)
Daddy Love–
Obviously you are a rabid lawyer lover.
@51 Nr Cynical
the toal cost to the system of malpractice comprise about 1% .. including protective medicine.
Malpractice is WAY below other issues like the inordinate cost of medical education and the subsidies we give by deferring costs from one program to another.
FWIW, I have written on malpractice and do think it needs reform but I am not sure either you or the Rabbit would like MY reforms. I think patients should have a less expensive alternative to the current nuclear bomb style legal system. Any case of malpractice should be first adjudicated by an expert panel and only allowed to progress if that panel cannot agree or cannot find a solution.
BTW .. isn’t malpractice part of your “free market?”
This will warm the hearts of the Pooper, Cynical and the rest.
A lion of the Raygun revolution, Arthur Laffer on health care:
What a clown. I’m sure glad we have Krugman.
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200908040014
@52 Mr. Cynical says:
Now that is a Republican idea if I have ever heard it!
First, it says we need a meritocracy … you know a system that rewards folks for doing their best? I assume you mean you oppose all forms of non-ability based distribution of rewards?
Second, it says that society must serve the needs of all. Great REPUBLICAN idea! We could call this equla opportunity! Gee .. why NOT have the hardest working and brightest kids get into Harvard? Oh, and we certainly wnat to insure that the hardest workers can work by assuring that they can eat and get health care?
Now who did say that? Barry Goldwater? Richard Nixon? Ben Disraeli? It sure wasn’t that communist GW Bush who wanted to assure that rich kids get to not work for a living or the current crop who think we should means test our schools so only the rich can get in?
BTW .. is interesting to note that like Lenin, GW Bush came from a privileged, rich family and never really worked for a living. Communists like Bush, Lenin, Limbaugh, … them guys never seem to give a dry fart about what it takes to make it on your own!
Laffer is a lying piece of shit.
He knows damn well that Medicare is a government run program.
Where would the money come from? It would come from premium payers who are NO LONGER buying the crap that the ‘private sector’ offers.
That’s what they are afraid of.
“From each according to his dire need, to each according to his inherited wealth and position.” Mr. Cynical
61 Cyn
You know what I love? Justice. The negligently injured receiving just compensation for their injuries.
You do know that there are “lawyers” on BOTH sides of a lawsuit, right?
Actually, there are a lot more frivolous defenses asserted in malpractice claims than there are frivolous claims. The attorneys for the insurance companies can protect themselves by arguing that they are putting the plaintiff on their “burden of proof”, but the tactic is simply to delay the ultimate payout for years, increase the Plaintiff’s costs, and wear the Plaintiff down. In quite a few cases they succeed, as the patient dies before he ever sets foot in a courtroom.
68 rhp
That’s what deep pockets buys you. Funny, but the anti-“trial lawyers” guys never mention that if a trial lawyer for a plaintiff loses a malpractice or product liability case, he gets bupkis.
@68 rhp
That is why I prefer an adjudication system between the healthcare system and the lawyers.
This would have another advantage. Currently certain specialties arfe esp liable ..OB/Gyn. This has nothing to do with the stndard of care but does distort the choices of young physicians and the priorities of health care providers.
Actually, if Repricans were not so damn stoopid , THEY would propose this as an amendment or a seperate bill. Moreover, since our Red Radicals claim this will save costs, we could make it required for the public option (sic) but optional for the private one. Anyone who wants to pay for the privilige of hiring Hallahan, Honsley, Hammarubi, and Horton , the onomatopoetic stars of healthcare litigation, certainly should be free to do so!
70 SJ SP
I have heard this (that OB/GYN is becoming underrepresented due to medical liability concerns), but have not seen any reliable data other than the claims of a medical association, and I have to assume that they are biased against malpractice tort even when justified.
Do you know of any reliable data to back up this claim?
@67 lawyer on both sides??
Really? Equally qualified? And who pays for the plaintif’s lawyers?
Look, thge Reds are Rong about his as a money issue, but they are correct that our current system serves justice poorly.
BTW, if you think we need the right to sue Docs, hiow come it is so hard to sue insurance companies? (Hint: they are near monopolies in most states).
Where will the money come from…
to pay next year’s 10% hike for private insurance?
@71 Reliable Data
Unlike oyu I see no reason to doubt the objectivity of the medical association on this. However, it is easy enough top determine the costs of different sorts of malpactice by lookijng at the web. Do it iof you want.
A bigger issue, IMHO, is that our sports arena approach to hlitigation has made litigation a sport ONLY available to the rich or the rare person with a case, and the pr4esentation ability, to inter4est and can enrich a lawyer.
Do you really believe you can sue Bill Gates?
@73 Right ON!
The Radical Red Repricans seem to think that the only issue in this country they have fucked uop is the Government’s debt.
Government debt here is puny compared to other forms of debt .. whether it is credit card, home equity, over leveraging, deferred maintenance, impoverished eduction systems, etc etc.
The goal of Obamacare is not to (just) lower the fed deficit, it is to fix a system that has been trashed by Reaganism (and I include our own Clinton in this!).
The US needs a national industrial policy. Healthcare is one part of that policy!
Another Total Jerk claimed
Yeah right.
HR 1388: which passed by the House of Representatives with a 321-105 margin, the Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act, dubbed the “GIVE” act, would require the US government to develop a plan to implement a “mandatory service requirement for all able young people”.
Section 6104 of The Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act requires that a commission be established to investigate, “Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.”
Hey Dumbass, you haven’t been paying attention to Rhambo Emanuel and his “writings“. Emanuel’s book The Plan: Big Ideas for America he writes about compulsory service for Americans ages 18 to 25:
“Here’s how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They’ll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we’re hit by a natural disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities’ most pressing needs.”
Here is your Brownshirts Bill fool! What a continual moron another total jerk is. Brownshirts.
oh i forgot….when mostly white christian republicans protest, like the tea parties, its all orchestrated….maybe they should dress up in black face and yamakus and the media will kiss their assses.
More for another total jerk self appointed Brownshirt identifier…
Remember what “the messiah” and “the walking mistake” had on their website?
“Obama and Biden will set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year, and will establish a new tax credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.”
The New Brownshirt service.
So you want a tax credit for mandatory service for the American youth? Do mandatory service requirements make a child develop a sense of lifelong community service? We see how HA Libtardos opened their wallets and their arms for Katrina victims… Oh wait a minute, they didn’t do squanto.
78 – LMAO @ the fiend!
Was that another Beck doozy? All I remember is we debunked that bullshit ages ago. I think little Rickie Dumbass was involved.
Setting a goal is some kind of coercion?
Oh my! The lunacy, the paranoia, the idiocy just keeps on flowing…
re 78: What do the Brownshirts have to do with the Hitler Youth? Do you erver even try to find out what you are talking about?
So, you are against ACTIONS which help the community, but you are in favor of forcing schoolchildren to ‘pray’ to a state church.
@65 “Laffer is a lying piece of shit.
He knows damn well that Medicare is a government run program.”
Yup. And he’s counting on his knuckle-dragging audience not knowing it.
Welcome to “Idiocracy”. Now, let’s go back to our toilet-seat easy chairs and watch a couple more episodes of “Oh My Balls”…
74 SJSP
Sure you can sue Bill Gates. If you have a good case, and an attorney willing to take it on for contingency fees.
I have no objection to mandatory arbitration if we can also regulate premiums for MP insurance. And mandate that a certain percentage of premiums be paid out in settlements. Otherwise you’re just begging insurance companies to raise rates to boost profit.
I found an interesting site that claims that:
Sure, they may be sued for millions, but how many suits prevail–how often does anyone really PAY “millions?” There’s a reason that big payouts in malpractice or product liability lawsuits make the news—they’re RARE.
They’re not as put-upon as they want to appear. And if you lost your baby because a doctor screwed up, do you think that you should not be entitled to just compensation?
77 mot
You’re welcome to go out in blackface with a yarmulke (that’s what I assume you meant–Jew much?) any time you want. I’m sure you’ll meet some interesting folks.
But yes, when “when mostly white christian republicans protest” and Fox News personalities and GOP members of Congress are personally organizing events, it’s organized. And when “when mostly white christian republicans” go to town meetigns with Democratic Congresspeople to shout down any kind of discussion of the issues, and when they are obviously following the scripted instuctions from, for example, Astroturf organizations Rick Scott’s Conservatives for Patients’ Rights or Dick Armey’s Freedomworks, in operations aimed at shutting down town hall meetings held by House Democrats around the country, one might think that “it’s all orchestrated.” (Link to instructions from Freedomworks’ Bob McGuffie)
Well, there’s a good reason for the Ob/Gyn having the highest malpractice insurance rates. There are potentially two victims of malpractice, the mother and the infant. If the mother suffers lifetime debilitating injuries or death due to negligence, then the infant loses a mother and should be compensated accordingly. If the infant is permanantly injured by negligence but survives, then there is a lifetime of the cost of care associated with caring for that child.
It’s really no different than if someone negligently drives a car so that they hit a pregnant woman on the sidewalk. The amount of damages are going to be substantial. And an Ob/Gyn is in a profession whereby they are going to be, in effect, driving down streets full of pregnant women all day, every day.
So why is the party of “individual responsibility” so insistent that the negligent doctor should be allowed to pay only a portion of the damages he/she causes, with the victim to suffer the lion’s share?
Come to think of it, that last question pretty much applies to the entire Bush administration – they had the party, and now that we are forced to clean up the mess and pay for the damages, they are sitting on the sidelines jeering at our efforts.
What I think is funny is that the Brownshirts were mostly young men who were WWI vets disillusioned by a Germany that had failed them and had kept its leaders and traditional bureaucracy in a time when inflation had destroyed the value of the Deutschmark and jobs were pretty scarce.
Here in America our new Brownshirts are middle-aged or elderly “white christian Republicans” who are angry that we threw out the bums who were destroying the value of our money and our jobs and economic stability. Compare the value of the US dollar in 2000 and 2008
If nothing else, their advanced age does not bode well for the future of this new “grassroots” movement.
Get ready for the new America, without a white majority.
Anybody seen the latest Gallup poll on seniors and “the messiahcare program”?
Pelletizer@26 farted
Really dumb bunny?
Puddy supposes this didn’t happen with Nancy Stretch Pelosi and “seniors”!
And Pelletizer have you been paying attention to the polls? Only 49% of seniors approve “the messiah”. It used to be 61% approved of “the messiah”. Guess what “the messiah’s” approval for 30-to-64-year-olds now? BTW Puddy using Gallup since you can’t fathom the Rasmussen polls. Not much higher Pelletizer. Let’s watch what happens for the 2010 erections.
clueless wondermoron dairrhead:
Really? No it wasn’t a Beck comment fool. It was direct from “the messiah’s” web site fool.
Too bad you don’t read “the messiah’s” pronouncements.
Well fool, sign up your “children”.
Headlice farted:
Well another total jerk didn’t mention Hitler, so Puddy didn’t either. Butt since you did Headlice, tell us how your young distant relatives acted in Germany. You act similarly to minorities today 24×7.
re 78: What do the Brownshirts have to do with the Hitler Youth? Do you erver even try to find out what you are talking about?
Just asking the question provides the answer, doesn’t it?
OK, let’s get something straight here…we’re not talking particularly about malpractice liability for individual caregivers. The right doesn’t give a rat’s patootie about individual doctors any more than it does about any other individuals. What they’re all gnarled about is lawsuits against those oh-so-holiest of holies corporations. They’re worried about Humana having to compensate the next of kin of somebody who got “forgotten to death” in an ER, or a drug company being on the hook for a class action on some medication that got fast-tracked through FDA approval and then ended up with some nasty side effect. For them, health care isn’t really about healing the sick. It’s about making money, and how dare some schmuck think he or she has the right to interfere with that?
Why didn’t the Yugo car company survive?
It was less expensive than most other cars. Certainly, less expensive than Mercedes or Cadillac.
It was a piece of crap that no one wanted to buy.
What does this have to do with the health care debate?
Everything.
If it’s true that government run health care is sooooooo bad; rationed, socialized, too expensive and having politicians in Washington getting between you and your doctor, why on earth would anyone use it?
NO ONE will buy it, right? Like the Yugo the Public Option won’t work if the Republicans are right — for once. . In short the public option will fail on its merits.
But, the reason the Republican’s in Washington are mightily against it is because the health care industry and the insurers donate far and away more to Republicans than Democrats on balance.
The public option WILL deliver equal or better health care to Americans than the status quo. Thus, the health insurance industry will collapse because a better competitor KICKED THEIR ASS in the market place.
Otherwise, it wouldn’t fail as the Republicans predict.
The question of the health care reform debate becomes this: If government health care, i.e. the Public Option, is as bad as the Republicans say it is, why would everyone gravitate towards it?
And, if the status quo is so much superior why would it fail?
62. SeattleJew’s Sockpuppet spews:
Give me your source please.
Hey another total jerk
Yes another total jerk, you brought it up first so tell all of us why you made that association since “the messiah” is in power.
If another total jerk remembers Adolf Hitler formed his own private army called Sturm Abteilung (Storm Section) back in 1921. And it’s quite interesting the Brownshirts leader Ernst Roehm was an avowed socialist. To call Americans speaking out Brownshirts is despicable, but we all know how despicable the progressive mind of another jerk is. So all those seniors visiting Nancy Stretch Pelosi are Brownshirts another total jerk?
Yep just asking the question shows the moronic mind of another total jerk.
SeattleJew–
The accounting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers says about 10% of the cost of medical service is attributable to medical malpractice lawsuits. Roughly 2% is caused by direct costs of the lawsuits; an additional 5% to 9% is due to expenses run up by defensive medicine.
SeattleJew–
Care to comment on this??
They’re Coming For Your Tonsils
By INVESTOR’S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Wednesday, July 29, 2009 4:20 PM PT
Health Costs: Lawyers are responsible for more unneeded procedures than “greedy” doctors. But instead of capping malpractice awards, bureaucrats will soon decide which treatments are OK and whether you’re worth it.
PuddWaxx, you called children doing public service ‘brownshirts’. That is incorrect. Brownshirts were Hitlers storm troopers. Schoolchildren performing good works are not German Storm Troopers.
I have to speak to you like you were a Special Ed. person.
How much does having a “FOR PROFIT” middleman between you and your doctor drive up medical costs?
How much could the system save if we had a single payer, non-profit system of paying doctors?
Like we used to have non-profist paying medical costs and they were much lower.
Anyone know how Blue Cross and Blue Sheild got their starts?
@95 “bureaucrats will soon decide which treatments are OK and whether you’re worth it.”
Motivated by profit, insurance company bureaucrats already do this. But you’re obviously OK with that.
Headlice, Puddy called a bill promulgated by Rhambo Emanuel and pass in the House the Brownshirts bill. Go back and reread fool. Puddy sees reading ain’t fundamental for Headlice. And it’s your bud another total jerk, who called old people brownshirts.
Too bad calling HR Bill 1388 upsets you. Puddy would never call old people Brownshirts.
So much for Puddy putting the information at the 5th grade level for Headlice. You’re welcome.
@85 “Get ready for the new America, without a white majority.”
And that scares the shit out of Puddy. How fucking weird is that?
@99 “Puddy would never call old people Brownshirts.”
Of course not. Puddy reserves that slur for young Americans.
@76 “These young people will be available to address their communities’ most pressing needs.”
Here is your Brownshirts Bill fool!”
Nice spewing of hate toward Americans, Puddy.
Didn’t Thomas Jefferson say “Protest is the highest form of patriotism”.
Now was Jefferson a lefty or a righty. You decide.
Well Puddy guesses “Protest is the highest form of patriotism” only holding true if the protest recipient is a Republican.
Moronic Steve@101, WTF? Puddy is very comfortable around most people except libtardos like you, rudeASS, clueless wondermoron, ekim (Puddy would have to keep looking over his shoulder) etc.
Steve, another total jerk called old people Brownshirts. Another total jerk called young and old Brownshirts. Puddy called a bill passed in Congress the Brownshirt Bill. Why Steve? Can you figger it out?
Is that too hard for you Steve?
@103 Oh? And here I had somehow gotten the impression that you most comfortable hanging with racists like Mr. Klynical and Troll. Geez, I wonder how I ever got that impression?
Shall I share the post where you gave your love to Troll after he called blacks “niggers”?
You’re all fucked up in the head, Puddy. Your mind ain’t right.
re 99: You are completely incoherent — an inchoate mass of confusion and false values. The only ballast in your life is that you are against liberals.
You are not for anything.
“Is that too hard for you Steve?”
I have no interest in your pathetic word games, Puddy. Rather, I’m more concerned with how fucked up your head has become.
Puddy remembers the scrrech from Hillary Clinton on protesting.
Ohhh… that’s only good if you are protesting a Republican administration.
Protest Republicans Good
Protest Dummocrapts Bad
Protest Republicans – you get tazered.
http://www.democracynow.org/20....._tasers_at
“Florida governor Jeb Bush was confronted by protesters on the streets of Pittsburgh on Friday. Police responded by ushering Bush into a closet and tasering two of the protesters.”
Headlice, Puddy see what you wrote as from the most screwed up mind at HorsesASS!
Oh you let another total jerk get a free pass for calling people who protest as their Constitutional right Brownshirts but when Puddy calls a bill for forced American service a Brownshirts Bill, it’s the worst day in America.
You are such a moron Headlice.
Steve@107. Word games? Puddy called the bill that fool. Word Games? That which is practiced by Dummocrapts here everyday is now upsetting you?
Why does the libtardo MSM call conservative protesters a mob while libtardo protesters a peaceful demonstration?
Getting (ahem!) back to the subject at hand…a few weeks back, before they decided to switch tactics and concentrate on mobilizing the Army of the Brain-Dead, the insurance companies actually came up with some rather intelligent proposals. Their claim was that they could adjust the way they do business and reduce the total cost of health care in America by something approaching $1 trillion a year.
That’s wonderful, but it begs the question: Why the hell aren’t they doing that anyway?
ARE YOU KIDDING??????????????
There’s nothing for anyone to decide — it’s historical fact Thomas Jefferson was a Democrat, or better said “O.D.” Original Democrat.
Democrats are the only party today that can trace its roots back to the founding of our great nation.
Foo’.
Steve @ 105:
Just so you know:
I
NEVER
GET
TIRED
OF
SEEING
MR. CYNICAL’S
NIGGER
JOKE
RETOLD
AGAIN
AND
AGAIN
AND
AGAIN.
IT NEVER GETS OLD.
Thanks,
GBS
Here is a no-brainer we can all agree on….even the dumbest of KLOWNS like steve & GBS!
I’d love to hear some KLOWN try & convince us Congress should be exempt from the Health Care Bill!
BTW steve & GBS–
Obama is full of BULLSH*T!
He has lied to the middle class about no tax increase. Geithner runs the increase up the old flagpole and O-blah-blah-blah “Quart Low” ducks in the brush.
Oh and have you heard the latest…this was a Mr. Cynical prediction a year ago….
TAX COLLECTIONS ARE WAY DOWN!!
Duhhhhhhh.
Are any of you KLOWNS actually shocked??
Ain’t so many rich folks no mo.
@82 Daddy Love
Arbitration would …
Oh? I thiought there was supposed to be a free market?
@82 Daddy Love
Arbitration would …
Oh? I thought there was supposed to be a free market?
@84 rhp
The issue is not justice, everyone supports that. Why wouldn’t arbitration accheive justice?
Moreover, the issue for a Doc being sued is NOT losing, it is the massive time and cost involved.
Mr. Cynical:
In your opinion he may be full of bullshit, but what you meant by your joke is that when an African-American thinks they may have to get an actual job they go into shear panic among other racial slurs your hurled.
Thus, furthering the Republican code talk of “wealth redistribution” to mean nothing more than ‘get niggers off welfare.’
Got it. We know what you moron’s have been saying for years. You know what you’ve been saying. Everybody knows what you’ve been saying.
Here’s the problem: In the 1960’s the Republican Southern Strategy worked when the nation’s voting demography was mostly white Christian.
Today that’s changed. Within then next 10-20 years it will be a thing of the past. As long as people like you tell nigger jokes on political blogs and your leaders have Macaca moments and blast away at Latina Supreme Court nominees you’re doomed to go the way of the Whigs.
Nature has a way of eliminating the weaklings. Regardless of the fact that you dip shits don’t believe evolution. It is TRUE!!
Mr Cynical
Can’t you READ?
I support arbitration. Who are you arguing with?
As for some obscure, unreferenced stujdy, come back with a link.
On tghe other issues …
I do not6 see your point at all. The proposed program is not manadatory. It is an option. If you really wnat to pr4ovide everyone with the level of care a Senator gets, are you willing to pay for that?
You said this a year ago, huh? No need to prove it, I’ll take your word for it.
Tax collections way down, huh?
“Ain’t so many rich folks no mo,” huh?
Is that because of the Bush tax cuts or the Bush recession?
Because both of those happened on his watch.
And, for some obviously stupid reason you still want people to vote Republican!!
It’s one thing when one of us makes you look pathetic, but when you do it with your own words . . . that’s truly pathetic.
Well, no one ever accused you of being intelligent.
Just so everyone’s clear and is not confused by Lambchop’s faux outrage…
I called people who are acting like Brownshirts Brownshirts because it’s accurate and appropriate. When your strategy memo specifically states “Be Disruptive Early And Often” and “Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate,” you’re not exercising your constitutional rights, you’re deliberately trampling on others’ by behaving like a thug, like the Sturmabteilung.
If calling these thugs Brownshirts hurt your feelings, it’s indicative of the deep problems both you and these people have with democracy and America. You’re unworthy of this great country, and you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Another Total Jerk did nuthin to eliminate his calling of Americans Brownshirts for demonstrating. Remember that the next time some one implements Alinsky’s rules for Radicals.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals right from his own book being used on the Libtardos.
1. “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.”
2. “Never go outside the expertise of your people. When an action or tactic is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear and retreat…. [and] the collapse of communication.
3. “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)
4. “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”
5. “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.”
6. “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.”
7. “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time….”
8. “Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.”
9. “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.”
10. “The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign.”
11. “If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside… every positive has its negative.”
12. “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.”
13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and ‘frozen.’…
“…any target can always say, ‘Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?’ When your ‘freeze the target,’ you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments…. Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the ‘others’ come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target…’
“One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other.” (pps.127-134)
BTW another total jerk regarding Puddy’s real outrage… Puddy will be watching every future Dummocraptic demonstration.
From your GLA, GLAAD, PETA, ELF and other eco radicals, La Raza, Le Mecha, The fools at ZMag, etc. and their Alinsky tactics, Puddy will be paying attention.
Only this is being orchestrated by lobbying groups.
Just like the republican lobbying groups recently put out mailings against global warming – sponsored by the coal companies.
This is faux outrage and designed disruption. All you need is some willing kool-aid followers like the tea-baggers. Puddy and his racist buddies are more than willing to go after latina justices, black Presidents, global warming scientists, health care reform and any other hot-button issue. Just let the corporate sponsors, the right wingnut radio hosts, the rightwingnut spokespeople lead you into zombie-like opposition to change….
Puddy .. What is Y9ur point?
Alinsky did use dirty methods, so did Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Sam Adams, the Jacobists, and the Hamasniks, the Panthers, the Weathermen?
Does this make such tactics good?????
Do yuo approve of the Repubs for fostering this sort of stuff?
You know perfectly well we NEED healtcare reform. These Red Repricans are not pushing for reform they are pushing for destrcution.
All real Americans feel anger and outrage at the behavior of these youthful protesters. We are very fortunate to live in this country, under a government we chose ourselves, and their actions are calculated to undermine our precious democracy. They are traitors and their mothers should be ashamed of them.
@125 Glad to see you go on record FOR demonstrating, puddlehead. I’ll remind you of this, next time a crowd of leftwing protesters feels like shouting down some Reprican Retardo. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, you know!
@103 “Didn’t Thomas Jefferson say “Protest is the highest form of patriotism”.”
Well, if it is, Republicans are the most unpatriotic people on earth because they HATE dissent and protests. See, e.g.,
http://freedomrider.blogspot.c.....ulling.jpg
http://www.aclu.org/freespeech.....51121.html
http://www.komonews.com/news/archive/4131001.html
And then, of course, there was Nixon and his “Plumbers Unit” …
The New Red Menace
As Communism died, the Radical Republicans took up the color red.
The
Red to the seventh power!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL….so the acorn protests are not orchestrated????
What “Acorn Protests” is the jackass referring to?
Oh yeah…the ones that never got covered by the right wing MSM because…they NEVER HAPPENED.
@133
are you saying acorn doesnt protest? how can you have an argument when you’re being totally ridiculous?
Looks like our little drama queen defends anti-American behavior with a little moral relativism. Typical.
Another Total Jerk defends anti-american behaviour when his side does it.
What a libtardo hypocrite.
Did someone who’s dense as spent uranium@133 claim ACORN doesn’t protest?
Yep Puddy stays in touch with his hometown!
I sometimes wonder if the hypocrisy, moral relativism, irrationality, and general lack of coherence or self-respect is just a quirk of the loons we have here or if it’s simply the best the right has to offer. Then I look around the conservative blogosphere and the cable news (sic) channels, and I’m both reassured and frightened by the obvious conclusion: it really is all they’ve got.
It’s frightening for the obvious reasons. But it’s encouraging for an equally obvious reason – we’re winning. :-)
moron@133 Never happened? Did someone who’s dense as spent uranium@133 claim ACORN doesn’t protest? Ever heard of Google dense one?
“ACORN pursues these goals through demonstration, negotiation, lobbying for legislation, and voter participation.” – ACORN’s own press release.
Goldy find a better libtardo. This fool is beyond laughable.`
Pelletizer pellets
Puddy delivered old peeps protesting at Nancy Stretch Pelosi’s place. Another Total Jerk called the protesting old peeps “Brownshirts”. Of course to you Pelletizer Another Total Jerk is a Leftist Jerk. That’s all right with you.
Pelletizer farted:
Dude, you old dumb bunny, you fergit your code Pinko friends last year or all the eight years of January 20, 2001-January 20th 2009. You fergit Cindy Sheehan, etc.
Mrs Wabbit, you need to get the old dumb bunny some meds quick. Alzheimer’s is cummin on quicker than previously shown.
SeattleJew,
Alinsky tactics were promulgated by “the messiah” in Chicago. He learned at his feet.
Did you miss this YouTube event SeattleJew or was it your sockpuppet who saw it?
Watch “the messiah” in action with his Alinsky trade tricks.
Of course all the leftist pinheads forgot what Obama said last September.
“Argue, Get In Their Face!”
So SeattleJew when old people protest using Alinsky tactics that’s bad but when libtardos use their tactics that’s good?
Regarding health care reform, Puddy agrees there needs some reforming but not with the methods written in those proposed bills in the three committees right now.
SeattleJew in #32 you tried to answer some of Piper’s 12 questions. As you know from our many conversations Puddy a small businessman. Well here are some stories from small businesses. Of course NutsTooTight will call them anecdotes like always.
How do you keep them from seeing harm? Laying off employees? Closing shop?
Oh BTW what is a small business? under 250K 250K-500K greater than 500K but under 1MM? Please tell us SeattleJew. Do you agree?
GBS spews:
Where did I say Republican???
I want people to vote CONSERVATIVE.
The Bush boys are not Conservatives.
121. GBS spews:
Wow, you can really take a joke and spin it into more than it is.
The point is, OBAMA HAS NEVER HAD A REAL JOB!
Obama made $7 million writing a book about what???
His life story…as a phoney??
Working of grants and the guv’mint??
Impressive.
Obama is full of bullshit…guys like you bought it…hook, line & sinker.
Why??
Guilt…???
Probably.
How racist of you GBS.
Vote for somebody because you feel guilty because you are white??
Puddy–
Ahhhhhhhhhh, thanks for the reminder about Alinsky’s Rules for Rads.
Obama and his ilk play it for all it’s worth, don’t they!
Just like this from 6-time Socialist Party Presidential Candidate, Norman Thomas (Obama’s HERO!!)
Norman Thomas, grandfather of Evan Thomas:
* Assistant Managing Editor of Newsweek Magazine
* Longtime panelist on syndicated Inside Washington TV show
* Grandson of six-time Socialist Party presidential candidate Norman Thomas
* In 2004 acknowledged the leftwing bias of the establishment media
Puddy,
You are not answering the questions.
1.Claiming that President Obama (along with MK Gandhi and ML King) were influenced by Alinsky is not relevant to the question of YOUR support for Limbaugh-Beck-Hannity Brown shirt tactics.
For the record the Brown shirts were exactly like this rabble, they were demonstrators organized by the radical right of Germany to disrupt democratic discussion. The same tactics were used by the Jacobites inb France and Maoists in China.
So, tell me .. who do you comnpare nthe Radicalo Red Republicans with .. Gandhi? King? Jefferson? Stalin? Hitler? Is Beck more like Goebells or like Gompers?
2. If you oppose the various versions of the bill now being proposed, what do YOU support?
3. On a practical level, assuming we agree that the system need to be fixed, would you support separating healthcare from employment entirely?
Why should any business be involved in tis employees’ healthcare anymore than it should in their education or housing?
3. Obama has supported separation of healthcare from employers in the past. The devil here is in how to do that without single payer? In most states our current system has produced near monopolies on the p-art of the insurance companies. Is it better to have Aetna ration your care than GuvMed?
Or, you can continue to toss turds on the nred glowing fires…..
Cynical,
Will the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) be scrapped and all those peeps, you know the ones, United States Federal employees and all da membas of House and Senate be required to be enrolled in the “government option/public plan”? Hss anyone axked that of Henry Waxman? If the don’t have to join, why not? Why are they special?
@147 “Wow, you can really take a joke and spin it into more than it is.”
You told a racist joke, asswipe. You’re the one who’s trying to spin it. You’re fucking pathetic.
SeattleJew,
You are asking the wrong questions. Do you actually think the peeps who went to Nancy Stretch Pelosi’s office are Red Republicans? Brownshirts? Do you actually know the Pelosi constituent demographics of her district? What are YOU smoking today?
Regarding Alinsky tactics, you discount all the agitation from the previous eight years because some people confronted senators and congresspeeps. Before it would be wow look at that small crowd. Now it’s a big time mob?
And it seems you are scared of Glenn Beck. In fact it seems many of the HA Libtardos are scared of Glenn Beck. Why? Is he exposing the tactics of the “progressive movement”? He’s just one man SeattleJew.
Regarding what Puddy supports, ask clueless wondermoron. He’s archived all the PuddyMissives from this web site. He keeps telling us to wait, some big “expose” cummin. But since we’re friends SeattleJew, Puddy will explain a few points again.
SCHIP – No problem will helping poor children. Puddy was once a poor poor inna city child. My problem is the $82,500 threshold. Fools like clueless wondermoron shouldn’t be included in a program for poor children.
The so called 47,000,000 without insurance. Let’s cut all the crap here SeattleJew.
1) There are many homeless in that number. No doubt about that. There are many children in that number. But when FactCheck.org looked at it, even NutsTooTight shut up after a while. There are millions of illegals in that number. DHS says 11.7 million. Left leaning WikiPedia says 11 million. Are they included?
Wow. A lot of insanity from Stupes and Mr. Klynical.
Much like that the shouting and disruption of the brownshirts mobilized by the insurance companies.
Those companies are a disaster. Their “customers” are corporations who only care about lower premiums. The beneficiaries are screwed at the first opportunity when they interfere with quarterly profit goals and huge pay days to executives.
Stupes has shilled for United Health by posting the propaganda from its wholly owned subsidiary the Lewin Group. A host of Republicans repeated their propaganda from podiums in the Senate and the House.
The brownshirts goal is to enable insurance company executives to continue to receive egregious payouts like that of United Health Care’s “Dollar Bill” McGuire who ALMOST pocketed more than 1 BILLION dollars in compensation in a single year were it not for media and regulatory scrutiny. Poor man. He had to settle for a mere 125 million.
The brownshirts were depressed. Fiends..
What gets me is that the health insurance companies are using MY OWN MONEY (taken from me in this year’s 14% premium increase) in order to bribe the Republicans and Blue-Dog Democrates (er, “contribute to the re-election campaign”) tp sabotage the health insurance reform bill.
If they are successful, of course, they will then raise the rates again, taking even more money from me, while arguing that they are forced to do it by “cost increases” (which presumably includes the cost of bribing legislaters).
Aren’t you the last person to be talking?
And your words weren’t a joke.
You words made sure everyone knew you were trying to belittle me by calling a “faggot.”
So please steve, don’t be so fucking pathetic.
The same argument right-wingers make except that government employee unions are paid by taxpayer money taken from citizens by threat of force.
At least you have a choice not to give that insurance company your business.
So does that mean the anti-war protests that were funded/organized by the socialist party was for the benefit of the socialist party?
Look at all the handmade signs at the healthcare takeover protests, compare them to the manufactured signs at left-leaning sponsored protests.
I see the dumbass goatfucker chimed in. Speaking of “faux”, your faux crusade to tar myself and GBS as people who are bigots against gays was an abject failure. Do you know why, goatfucker? Do you know why the only people who joined your phoney campaign were bigots who have a record here of spewing hate and intolerance towards gays? Let me clue you in, asswipe. It’s because the definition of bigotry has to do with hate and intolerance towards the subject group. GBS and myself have never spewed hate towards gays. We express support for the GLBT cause. You, on the other hand, asswipe gay hater that you are, oppose the GLBT cause in every shape and form, as evidenced by your excusing or ignoring the real bigotry towards gays spewed by your wingnut friends, condoning their hate. Just as you condone by your silence Mr. Klynical’s racist jokes. That’s why only gay-hating right-wing bigots joined your crusade, asswipe. Evidently, you not only hate gays, you think they’re damned stupid too, stupid enough to fall for your transparent bullshit. Well, you can take your bullshit concern for gays and shove it up your America-hating, gay-hating, wingnut-loving ass. And if you don’t like my attitude towards you, just you fucking try to do something about it, goatfucker.
Puddy,
You STILL are avoiding the questions.
I am more than happy to argue the relative merits of the weathermen vs the republicans but …
Is there a rational right POV? If so tell us!
Tea baggers, birthers and now astroturf insurance company brownshirts…
Nice crowd on the right wing. Wingnuts gone wild.
When?
Where?
Why?
What happened?
So is this going to be ANOTHER 400 post thread with these assholes being unable to prove a single allegation or argument they bring up?
…thought so, sigh.
SeattleJew, you avoid my questions then complain about me avoiding my questions?
First, the questions and premise you present are very false.
Second the tone is way off base. You paint people who are expressing their Constitutional right to protest (See Thomas Jefferson quote above) as radicals because they don’t highstep to your supported cause?
That’s your terminology. These people especially the old libtardos in Stretch Pelosi’s district are Radical Red Republicans? Give me a break!
Regarding Gompers – “We do want more, and when it becomes more, we shall still want more. And we shall never cease to demand more until we have received the results of our labor.” Sounds so progressive to Puddy.
“Where trade unions are most firmly organized, there are the rights of the people most respected.” Except when the labor union decides to politically use your dues and when you oppose it you are blacklisted or law suits thrown at you. Remember the WEA lawsuit on union dues SeattleJew? Puddy placed it here. Contact clueless wondermoron as he archives all the PuddyQuotes in his “database”.
SeattleJew see above. Puddy partially answered it on purpose. See clueless wondermoron for the rest cuz you asked this before and Puddy answered it before.
Why do you use the word fixed? IT assumes it’s totally broken. Why not modified? No Puddy doesn’t support separating health care from employment. Amazing how you libtardos want to create the guvmint run health care system. The guvmint can’t even get the stimulus money spent the way it wanted.
Now Puddy expects you to answer his questions.
colsandersfavoritechicken assumes someone here takes him seriously…
As a former insurance industry professional, I can tell you that the health care system we have now is NOT broken.
The health care system we have now is just EXACTLY the way the for profit health insurance industry wants it.
EX-actly. Bought and paid for.
That said system is completely immoral and corrupt; bankrupting families and causing businesses to fail is inconsequential to the christo-crazies around here.
Puddy
165. Puddybud is traveling TRAVELING spews:
No. You posted a lot of ling, blather and bombast. I tried to focus it by asking questions
First, the questions and premise you present are very false.
YHiou noticd? And your tone was ???
Nope .. I intentionally lumped folks who I despise and admire, all of whom have used similar tactics.
FWIW, for all HIS blather Tom J was firmnaly against the Jacobites and their American cousins.
No way man. No breaks. Just a consistent request that you say something useful.
Yep. Did I say he was not progressive? How about Hancock and Sam Adams? Seems to me I ‘memebr something about a guy named Brown too.
off topic
Shit,m you really want me to read between the threads of TP floatiojng in that cess pool???
Why not answer the question. I DID NOT SAY healthcare should be guvmint, I said the employers should nopyt be in the healthcare biz. Seems oprett conservative to m.
Neither true nor relevant
ZAsk some worth answering but first .. say something useful.
@167 The insurance industry may have well at one time been dedicated to the task of taking in customers’ premiums and practicing sound, long-term stewardship of assets in order to be able to cover the contracted liabilities of the policies as they were needed.
With the possible exception of a very few companies that remained mutual insurers (owned collectively by the policyholders), health, liability and even life insurance companies have like the rest of Corporate America become slaves to the imprudent pursuit of short-term profits to pump their share prices. In the case of health insurers, this has led to the practice of working to charge the highest possible premiums and retain as much as possible, while allowing only enough benefits to be paid for actual care to maintain an appearance of legitimacy. The expertise in statistical prediction of events they’ve cultivated over the years has led them to find that they’re better served by putting millions put into lobbying and funding exercises in political theater, and even gambling on getting hauled into court for collusion on rates and payout schedules (not to mention gambling with their customers’ dollars on flaky short-term investments) than by prudent management of assets and honestly meeting their obligations.
152. Puddybud is traveling TRAVELING spews:
Excellent question Puddy.
I’ve seen nothing on this at all.
I believe Public Servants should actually have a LESSER health package than those they supposedly serve. LESSER!
State of Washington Employees have a Diamond Benefit Packasge which according to the State’s own HR website adds 31% to the average State Workers Compensation.
Inaddition, they have paid time-off which adds another 18%!
So the poor state worker who whines about making $60,000/yr. salary actually makes $90,000 of TOTAL COMPENSATION!!
The Unions NEVER want to discuss TOTAL COMPENSATION.
This is why
158. Marvin Stamn spews:
Marvin–
What an excellent touche that was!!
Follow the money. Right?
@168 “say something useful.”
I don’t know about you, SJ, but I’m not holding my breath. Heck, there’s been precious little evidence to indicate that Puddy’s even capable of saying anything coherent.
2/19/2009
Watts.
To promote their political agenda.
Like the name of the thread on huffington…
Roseanne Barr Joins ACORN Protest Against Foreclosures
If you had googled acorn protest you would find a plethora of links and videos.
How do you feel about acorn targeting the private homes of people they don’t agree with. Does it make you feel proud of your party?
The Connecticut Working Families Party this weekend has organized a bus store that will make stops at Wilton, Connecticut, AIG office as well as the security-patrolled homes of AIG execs who are fearing for their lives.
I know, you’re going to whine that there’s no connection between the connecticut working families group and acorn, that it’s right-wingnuts making up lies like you usually do when confronted with facts.
Don’t believe me, the connection is made on their own website.
Asked about the party’s joint founder, ACORN (The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now), Dinkin said “while it’s fair to say that ACORN has a role in Working Families, allegations of voter fraud against ACORN are trumped up.
No need to thank me for educating you on acorn and their protests.
Thanks, it is always about the money and power for politicians.
Something that has always struck me as funny…
Are democrats against evolution? After all, the majority of democrats don’t believe in God and how man was created. They believe we evolved. What evolved, the weakest or the strongest? Why are now the democrats so concerned with attacking the strong to help raise the weak. Do they think they are the new “God?” That was a rhetorical type question, we’ve already been told obama is “he’s sort of God“
Why yes, fuckhead…we stand up for working Americans who need and deserve living wage jobs, health care and equal opportunity. What do YOU stand for? Who do you stand with? Bush’s base? The haves and the have mores?? The tea-baggers? The bigots in the rethuglicant party? The party of NO?
So where do you live asshole…I’ll protest you! I’ll sprinkle shedded carrots. Maybe thee rabbit will join me.
@173 “The security-patrolled homes of AIG execs”? Yeah, I’ll bet…probably Blackwater thugs.
Am I supposed to feel sorry for the pampered potentates of Wall St? Fergit it.
In fact, turnabout being fair play and all that, the Connecticut Working Families folks are inviting the AIG guys and gals to come visit them…
“Now that we have had a chance to see your community, we would like to invite you to visit ours. You can meet with some of the people who have experienced the brunt of the economic downturn first hand: people like Willie Alice Huguley of Hartford who at the age of 83 is worried about losing the only home she has known to foreclosure; or Asaad Jackson, 24, who faces thousands of dollars in medical debt as a result of emergency cardiac care he received two years ago during which time he lacked medical insurance. Or people like Mark Dziubek, a father of five who was recently laid off from the manufacturing job he held for nineteen years.
We would truly appreciate the opportunity to show you how hard our communities been hit, and we would sincerely welcome your support for proposals to create a more broadly shared prosperity.”
WHAT . . . A . . . DUMB ASS you are!!!
You’re throwing around the word “racist” and you’re not even using it properly in your sentence structure.
Baaa haaa haaa haaa
Like I said, “no one ever accused you of being intelligent!”
I didn’t vote for Pres. Obama out of guilt, I did it because he was obviously a much better choice than McShame. And, the majority of America agreed with me, not you.
Just so you know, dumb fuck, feelings of guilt, as you used it, does not equal feelings of hate or in your case racism.
You know, because niggers just hate working.
See the difference?
No.
Yes you do, you’re even lying to yourself as you read this post.
How pathetic are you????
First of all, dumb ass, Bush is a Republican. In fact, they all claimed to be Reagan Republicans.
Second, you do advocate voting for Republicans.
Third, and best of all, it’s nice to see you running away from the “Republican” brand as fast as you can.
Ashamed to be affiliated with the Republican Party? You’re not alone. Only 1 in 5 Americans now self-identify as being a Republican.
How embarrassing! And, pathetic!!
Cynical is a disgrace to his own race. Hell, he and Puddy are a disgrace to their entire phylum.
All these Bushista neocons trying to justify themselves by calling themselves “Reagan Republicans” doesn’t hold any water in the real world where ideas meet practicality. In fact, it’s becoming more and more apparent to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that neither Reagan himself nor “Reaganism” was all that great. Piper’s nutty indulgence in faux Latin notwithstanding, what tiny thread of justifiable idealism Reagan may have offered (and I’m trying to be charitable here) has long since been perverted into craven mass psychosis approaching that of the Third Reich or the Manson Clan.
Mr. Klynical loves him some George Bush.
7. Mr. Cynical spews:
And remember this:
GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT! GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!
Oh, I forgot…you idiots where born so uptight it would take a tractor to pull a pin outta yer asses!
GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT!
04/12/2006 at 7:24 pm
@172 ArtFart on Puddy
The unfortunate thing for everyone here is that I know Puddy in real life. The character he plays here is not much like the real guy at all.
Unlike a lot of the trolls here, Puddy is a very,very bright guy who certainly could, if he were willing to do so, provide good arguments.
Hard to believe? I know, but I think my friend see this as some sort of game. The sad thing is we all suffer from the lack of intelligent discourse from the right.
I figger that if I tease him enuff, maybe he will develop a sockpuppet who can be the “real” Puddy. I am pretty sure given the lack of content of the rest of the trolls that noneof these are Puddy’s Dr. Jeckyll.
“The unfortunate thing for everyone here is that I know Puddy in real life. The character he plays here is not much like the real guy at all.
Unlike a lot of the trolls here, Puddy is a very,very bright guy who certainly could, if he were willing to do so, provide good arguments.”
So I’ve heard, from several sources. In fact, I think he’s actually someone I’ve met, in a context so different that most of the participants here would be really surprised.
One can’t help but wonder, though, whether there are other participants here who take his “HA persona” seriously.
@182 I’ve often kidded Puddy that he learned his blackness from watching old Fred Williamson baxploitation flicks and I’ve also kidded him about his using phoney ebonics. It’s just a way to ride the silly goose. I’ve long suspected that he has more on the ball than he lets on. Hell, if I can be in love with my wingnut gal, I reckon I could be a friend to Pudz. Besides, with the death of my best friend, a black guy, it’s time to reload. heh- I need a new BBF! Hey, Puddy!
SeattleJew:
You brought up Sam Gompers…
He said – “Where trade unions are most firmly organized, there are the rights of the people most respected.”
So since you brought up Sam Gompers how is his quote “off topic“? Non sequitor
Puddy sick and tired of having to always repeat something previously said. Are you another 24 hour memory loss HA libtardo SJ?
BULLSHITTIUM Dude. Puddy answered the question. Read it again
Why do you use the word fixed? – You didn’t answer the question.
No Puddy doesn’t support separating health care from employment. And you know why. Who will carry the real cost of any plan?
The rest is crap. Still waiting for you to answer my original questions in #146.
hey rudeASS, Kiss my big black ass!
SeattleJew, when better libtardos arrive at HorsesASS Puddy will elevate his discourse. As long as there are the rudeASSes, clueless wondermorons another total jerk and ekim types Puddy will enjoy what Puddy does. Sure it’s a lot of fun going after those libtardo types.
No, I do not know why. In effect you want employers to pay a tax to support your healthcare. How does that make sense?
Why not just have heathcare available like food or housing or school?
I like the school model because healthcare is like school .. it determines opportunity for most folks. So, it makes sense, as with public schools (including colleges) to have a public option supported from the general tax fund with the option of paying more if you want more care.
As with schools we could offer that part of care most relevant to our shgared need of promoting equal opportunity .. esp child care and catastrophic care.
Not so sure about eldercare, but we ALREADY deal with that wi medicare so the issue is probably already settled. Still, I think Medicare should be rethought … on the one hand it sucks to force old folks to impoverish themselves to die, on the other hand the costs of elederly care are a big issue.
SeattleJew, any way you look at it employers are going to pay a tax. If the employer is above a certain threshold, “the messiah” already dictated their taxes are going to rise.
Medicare needs remodeling. There is too much greed and graft in the system.
GBS, there are certain characteristics inherent to Democrats which revile Puddy. We’ve discussed this over lunch.
It’s comments like #187 that remind me why I truly pity Lambchop.
colsandersfavoritechicken STILL won’t answer any questions from Lee or Darryl…
….hmmmmm, won-der whyyyyyy?????…hmmmmm…
@190 Puddy
So if you think employers should provide health insurance should tyhey also pay for your and your kids schools?
I agree the current bills are NOT aggressive enough. However, until we have Guvmed there is no obvious way to cut the umblical cord between employers and healthcare.
Cutting that cord is the only way we can cut costs. This shit you offer .. about graft etc is bs. We know where most of the $$ go .. they go to procedures, terminal care, and the admin costs of monopolistic healthcare plans.
If you do not favor Guvmed, then show some specifics .. what would you propose. It may hep to pick up a currentg copy of consumer reports. They offer an intriguing look at different PPOs and HMOs. Take a look!
The healthcare Reform Bill is a Sham and is no more than a grab for Power and Money. I will not hesitate to tell anyone I talk to about my beliefs as this is a free country. If Barack thinks he can shut me up or silence my Freedom of Speech you are sadly mistaken.
As far as turning people in on flag@whitehouse.com I turn Barack Hussein Obama for being a Communist, a Liar and a Traitor to this country. He should be tried and impeached before he seriously imperils this great nation. If you look back at history Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Castro, Chavez and countless others have tried this scenario before. Barack is in the same category as the other communists and I quote from Karl Marx the following:
“In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life’s prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly–only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”
KARL MARX
IMPEACH BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA before its too late !!!