Do not trust a single thing you read on the political blogs. Really. We can’t be trusted. Some of us simply aren’t all that bright. Some of us are propagandists, or out-and-out liars. And some of us are just plain nuts.
But stupid, lying, or crazy, most all of us have an agenda, and it influences nearly everything we write.
Take for example, Jim Miller of (un)Sound Politics, who proudly claims to have coined the phrase distributed vote fraud. Based on the core assumption that “Cheaters are more likely to be Democrats than Republicans,” it is this offensive (and ultimately self-defeating) theory that some of the more self-righteous and non-introspective Republicans rely upon to explain away their long history of electoral failure in Washington state.
(Could it be that the majority of voters prefer Democrats? Naaah… they cheated!)
In his latest contribution to (u)SP’s ouvre of partisan paranoia, Jim shows that his inherent mistrust of the other extends well beyond his own unscientific musings.
One of the minor mysteries of the election is why the Seattle Times endorsed Dino Rossi. I don’t take their own explanation at face value, and I suspect I am not alone in my cynicism. My guess is that some on the editorial board went along with the endorsement because they thought he had no chance to win. They could pose as nonpartisan without cost. It is, when you think about it, rather extraordinary how little support the Times has given to “their” candidate since the election.
Forget for a moment the obvious reason why the Times endorsed Dino Rossi (um… Frank Blethen told them to?) or Jim’s absurd notion that the board might appear “nonpartisan” by endorsing the Republican. It is his final sentence that is truly revealing, for it clues us in on Jim’s view of the primary role of the media, mainstream or otherwise: supporting their candidate.
Jim finds it downright suspicious that the Times would endorse Rossi, and then not overtly use its enormous power of the press to undermine Christine Gregoire’s legitimacy. Because the Times is not reporting all the paranoid propaganda being foisted as news on (u)SP, Jim attacks it for not investigating at all. But what he’s really attacking is not the Times’ failure to investigate the election, but its failure to support his conclusion that it was stolen.
In his mind, if the Times really supported Rossi, it would be working harder to undermine and overturn this election, journalistic ethics be damned. If that is the role that he expects of our state’s largest newspaper, imagine the low journalistic standards he demands from mere bloggers like himself.
Unlike his fellow (un)Sounder, Stefan, who frequently lets his inner demons seize hold of his thesaurus, Jim tends to write in a more measured, detached style, that a less critical reader might attribute to dispassioned thoughtfulness. But the truth is, he is a partisan propagandist, pure and simple.
I myself have long admitted that there is a propagandistic element to much of what I write, starting with the subjects on which I choose to editorialize. And I have also had more than my fair share of fun taking shots at the Seattle Times… including my months-long obsession with dipping Collin Levey’s journalistic ponytail in my digital inkwell. (I think I love you, Collin!)
So this is definitely a case of the pot calling the kettle black. But then, I’ve never pretended to be all shiny and polished.
The point is… don’t uncritically trust the blogs! Read between the lines, scribble in the margins, hold us up to the light, in front of a mirror, and under a microscope… and then spin us backwards on an old turntable if that’s what it takes to reveal our subliminal message.
Don’t fool yourself… we’re no better than the mainstream media. We’re just different.
GOLDY–
Let’s see, YOU were the one who told us the BIG BINDER of KingCo Precindt reconciliations was available to us at KingCo and that we needed to get off our asses and look. We did. You were dead wrong. It wasn’t available and continues to be held “hostage” These are public records Goldy that were required to be compiled BEFORE certification of each of the THREE counts. KingCo Election Official Logan was required to disclose all discrepancies, note them, investigate them, identify them and report them to the canvassing board which ooooops, Dean Logan is a member. UNELECTED Election Offical Dean Logan reporting to Canvassing Board member Logan. That’s just dandy Goldy. You are a real “fancy-boy” aren’t you!
Now you are exhibiting signs of EXTREME paranoia about those who call BS on this whole travesty of justice.
So Goldy….I guess you aren’t paranoid IF THEY ARE REALLY OUT TO GET YOU, huh?
Yup, all are liars and frauds. People should always double check so called facts.
You were talking about newspapers, right?
Cynical @1,
Blah, blah, blah. The binder is there, the reconciliation was performed, and the precinct abstracts are currently being compiled in time for their March 31 statutory deadline.
Vince @2,
I was not distinguishing. Those who say the don’t trust the papers, and then rely on the blogs or talk radio for their news, are really saying that they just don’t like what the papers tell them. Switching from one medium to another does not make you a critical thinker.
Goldy,
To whom should I send the bill for repairing my computer’s monitor? Trying to read between the lines caused no damage (but there’s nothing there). Scribbling in the margins left scratches. Despite taking extra care, spinning it backwards on an old turntable ripped loose the wire and the needle caused even more scratches. I really think you ought to pay for misleading me into taking these destructive steps without warning me of the dangers inherent in trying to see what you’re really saying.
Apropos of Stefan’s campaign to get access to the big binder, I posted a little humorous spoof of in the Comments section of Sound Politics (copy below), and it was deleted. I thought he could take a little funning, but apparently it was too nasty for him. -)
**************************************
“Stefan I’d thought I’d save you some trouble. -)
Truth Held Hostage: Day 12
I’m outraged!!!! The prosecutors office still has the file and I can’t see it.
Truth Held Hostage: Day 13
I’m outraged!!!! The prosecutors office still has the file and I can’t see it..
Truth Held Hostage: Day 14
I’m outraged!!!! The prosecutors office still has the file and I can’t see it.
Truth Held Hostage: Day 15
I’m outraged!!!! The prosecutors office still has the file and I can’t see it.
Truth Held Hostage: Day 16
I’m outraged!!!! The prosecutors office still has the file and I can’t see it.
Truth Held Hostage: Day 17
I’m outraged!!!! The prosecutors office still has the file and I can’t see it.
……………………..
Truth Held Hostage: Day 31
Hallelujah!!”
Hey Democrat commie libs! I made another donation to “SP” via email [Paypal Mastercard]. Now, I’m no fan of Goldy’s, but, have you Democrats helped him pay the website’s bills? Yes, I understand you are all “victims”, but get out your taxpayer funded “guvment” credit cards, and pay up!! DON, this means you have to spend some of your OWN money. goldy, like Ted “Oldsmobile” Kennedy, John “Fonda” Kerry, Maxine “Ho” Waters, and Barb “Bitch” Boxer all need your money, but…….start with Goldy!!!
Goldy @ 3
You gotta admit that you were somewhat taken in by the whole Big Binder thing. Did you personally come up with the idea that it was “down there for anyone to see” or were you parroting what Egan told you?
I’m not saying the Big Binder is like vaporware, but it sounds like the announcement of its ready existence was straight out of Microsoft’s FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) Handbook — say that something is there or “coming” while madly scrambling to make it real.
The check is in the mail, too. Right?
Mark @ 6
Actually, it would appear that preparation of the document is proceeding exactly on schedule…since March 31st was when they were expected to make the summary available to the SoS office. I guess Stefan just didn’t know that.
TJ,
The King County response claims the binder (reconciliation) docs are being used by the prosecutors office until 3/31.
“5. All poll site ballot reconciliation documents from the November 2004 election, which King County was required to create.
a.Information associated with this request is currently being used by the Prosecuting Attorney’s Office as part of an ongoing lawsuit. We will make these documents available for review no later than March 31, 2005. If you wish to have copies made, please let me know by March 22, 2005 for a charge of $0.15 per page. b. Copies of any other responsive documents will be made available by March 31, 2005 for review or for a charge of $0.15″ per page.”
http://www.soundpolitics.com/K.....050307.pdf
Or did I misinterpret something?
I think you’re making a leap, yes. It says it’s being used by the PAO. It doesn’t say they’re using it until 3/31, only that they will make the documents available for review by March 31st. They apparently feel confident that they will meet the SoS’s deadline for summarizing those materials, and thus can say it will be available by then.
Jim Miller and Shark’s take on their outrage at the Seattle Times editorial is proof that all their holier than thou preaching about right and wrong is revealed for the sham it really is when their indignation is directed not at the sleazy BIAW political tactic, but at the editorial that paints it like it is.
Instead of addressing the fact that the BIAW duped people with their scam survey, they ignore that, misrepresent why anyone would think the actions sleazy, and convince themselves with the following array of arguments:
– that the BIAW was merely investigating what others were not, so is that sleaze?
– that the people were paid $10 for filling out the survey, so what harm is that? Is that sleaze?
– that at least they are doing something instead of spouting lies (ignoring the fact the survey was a complete lie).
– that were the roles reversed Democrats would have done the same. So much for moral values.
– that their comments were tongue in cheek, can’t liberals take a joke? What a cop out load of crap.
– that they are looking for the truth and liberals can’t handle the truth, so where is the sleaze in that?
– that this is no different than a law enforcement sting. (except the BIAW has no law enforcement authority)
– that what the BIAW did wasn’t against the law, so who cares if it was sleazy, good for them? (be damned ethical standards)
– or simply, hey get out of here with your liberal sound bites and catch phrases, we aren’t interested in listening.
They can have their opinions, principles and ideals (if one would dare call them that), but they should stand up against such deceitful tactics when they occur by either GOP or Democrat faithful, otherwise they cannot expect to convince anyone of the righteousness of their cause.
Why not, Goldy? It’s the role they expect of the SoS, the law be damned.
TJ @ 7
“preparation of the document is proceeding exactly on schedule”
That’s my point. The document is/was BEING prepared, but didn’t actually exist for anyone to see right then.
So, when Goldy said, “this binder and the poll books are sitting down there at KC Elections for anybody to inspect” he was either speculating or merely taking Egan’s word for it. He didn’t have first-hand knowledge.
What this boils down to is that Goldy is right about taking blog information with a
grainwhole shaker of salt. Journalists are supposed to at least follow some rules about confirmation from multiple sources or first-hand knowledge, etc. Bloggers have no such rules. As such, they’re great for throwing gasoline on the fire, then sitting back and watching things burn (Goldy as Beavis: “fire… fire… FIRE! Heh-heh-heh”).Both blogs and the MSM should be starting points for being well-informed. MSM editors and publishers DO have a bias and it DOES creep in, despite their best efforts (or non-efforts) to be neutral. Even photographers — whose work would seem to be unbiased — can tweak the perception of a subject/event merely through angles and selective cropping.
Does anyone remember when Mike Seagal(sp?) broke the story that Gary Locke was a homosexual? He was ecstatic that he’d broken a story that the Seattle Times wouldn’t touch, exposing the hypocracy of the Times.
Only to discover that the Times had heard the same rumours, investigated them, discovered they were false, and decided not to run them.
IIRC, Seagal lost his job at KVI over that one. The only difference here is that nobody’s going to get fired over what they write at SP.
Mark @12
You seem to be making a mountain out of a mole hill, just like Stefan. I presume the binder exists. The “document” TJ was referring to is not the binder, but a SUMMARY of what’s in the binder. This summary is to be transmitted to the SO by March 31.
Read this from TJ’s blog:
March 31st. Maaarch….31st. When have I heard that date recently?
I remember now! That’s the date that Assistant Secretary of State Excell gave, as the expected date for all the counties to turn in precinct abstracts that they’d been preparing. As I reported then, even that didn’t seem like a firm date for Excell; he was apparently willing to be generous under the circumstances.
So King has a big binder full of precinct forms and notes. The SoS is asking for some kind of organized reference to that data collection, and they expect it March 31st. King tells Sharkansky that the information he seeks from the binder, will be organized and ready for the public to access on…March 31st.”
Goldy and Joe you really don’t believe the turds you crap here do you? Joe knows all, it’s everyone else that’s stupid. Goldy gets word of the “Big Binder” and with blind faith tells us all to go see it, that it answers all the questions, and we are stupid for believing there were any problems in the first place. You guys are always good for a laugh and the Big Binder fiasco is one of the best. You criticze shark for not doing his homework before he posts a story, even though his postions are always supported by documentation and facts, then you pull this Binder sotry out of your ass (or your KC friends ass) and you don’t have a clue what you are tlaking about. Then Joe trys to talk like he knows all about it, what a joke.
Mark, yes… taking everything here with a grain of salt.
But I stand by my initial blog on the subject, which came in the wake of the PI debunking the voter-credit “discrepancy” and in response to charges that KC never performed precinct reconciliations. As I reported, the did.
You want to nitpick, fine. But I think I did a damn fine job of explaining the reconciliation process, something Stefan and his folks never even bothered to explore before I raised the issue. The fact is, reconciliation was performed, as required by law. And the data is there, whether Stefan gets to see it before March 31 or not.
So… you want to read between the lines of that blog entry? We managed to shove the debate off of the bullshit voter-credit discrepancy, and onto the real reconciliation data, where it belongs.
Ha Ha Ha righties!!!
The Binder 1) exists and 2) is being made available!!!
Now all your dumb jokes can just vanish into the mists of time….
larry @ 13
That was former Seattle mayor Norm Rice or Norman B. Rice as jerk Siegel used to put it.
Chris @ 15
Yeah, right. Snark does his homework in the BIAW tradition. Start with the conclusion and manipulate the facts to support it.
The joke’s on you for following this fraud, Chris.
Mark @ 12–
You are being mighty, mighty trusting to take what Goldy says “with a whole shaker of salt”.
My rule of thumb is to take Goldy’s words with a whole BLOCK of salt!
Clearly Goldy said repeatedly that the BIG BINDER was readily available for public inspection when that clearly wasn’t the case. Goldy is just another example of what Ronald Reagan had in mind when he said,
“The problem with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant….it’s just they know so much that isn’t so.”
——RONALD REAGAN
Last comment. Micajah should start practicing his reading comprehension some more.
Most of the post was about whacko Jim Miller who writes the way he sees himself – as the voice of reason when he’s actually just as off his rocker as Sharkansky.
John @ 17 & 19–
Ummmm Mr. Dumbass sir
You might want to wait to see exactly what is in the BIG BINDER before your next gleeful outburst.
tj–this 3/31/05 “deadline” you talk about does NOT preclude KingCo from making available the BIG BINDER immediately.
How did KingCo develop precindt pollbook reconciliations to identify discrepancies that were REQUIRED to be brought to the canvassing board BEFORE cerfication at EACH of the 3 counts???Hmmmm?
The PURPOSE of these BIG BINDER reconciliations is to develop a list of discrepancies to note, investigate, attempt to rectify and to REPORT TO THE CANVASSING BOARD BEFORE CERTIFICATION!! BEFORE!
So tell me tj…exactly how did KingCo analyze pollbooks to develop the list of “DISCREPANCIES” to investigate and report to the CANVASSING BOARD>
This is yet another example of LEFTIST double-speak folks.
It defies common sense.
Chris @ 15
Joe doesn’t talk as if he knows all about it…Joe spent time speaking with the Secretary of State’s office, and arranged a one-on-one interview with his chief of staff, wherein the chief of staff filled him in. And Joe passed that information along. In some circles, they call that “journalism.” Perhaps in your consumption of SP, Carlson, Medved, Rush or whomever, you’ve forgotten how that all works.
Mark @ 12
Wherever the disconnect was, you’re correct that when Goldy said it was down there available for anyone to see it, that wasn’t strictly true. It is down there, it is (or was) available in its current form, but it was incomprehensible to the layperson, and would have required professional interpretive help. I agree Goldy may have presumed a bit too much, but he is also correct that he has almost singlehandedly, properly shifted the debate from the near-meaningless voter credit shortfall, to the question of precinct-level reconciliation.
Cynical @ 22
no, it doesn’t preclude them from doing so. But it explains why it’s not yet ready–even if they WEREN’T being deluged with requests, they wouldn’t be obliged to present it until then.
How did they do precinct reconciliation reviews? I must be missing something, because that seems like a moronically easy question to answer–they looked at the polling place workers’ review, were satisfied things had been processed properly, and moved on to the next one.
The purpose of the big binder would appear to be the purpose most people give to big binders…to have a place to store all of the component information, until such time as the components can be summarized.
“Everything I write is a lie”
Is this one of those paradox’s designed to make our heads explode?
Chris….
Wasn’t that nice of our [Washington’s] SOS office to make the time to talk to Joe? The fact that Joe lives and works in Oregon and the SOS’s office can’t make time to give info to actual Washington residents…….isn’t that interesting? I wonder if Joe did it from work too……
But by all means…I think we should all call up the SOS’s office and thank them for wasting our tax dollars talking to an out of State, and out of touch, partisan who likes to butt in, don’t you?
After all…he’s not the MSM……..
Good article Goldy –
“But stupid, lying, or crazy, most all of us have an agenda, and it influences nearly everything we write.”
You may want to stress the entertainment purposes of a blog. No reasonable person would be here if it weren’t for that aspect. Not that I consider everyone here reasonable, we’re just different.
That said, I would prefer SP lighten up:
chew2 @5
had a humorous perspective of an ongoing event, and it was treated in a manner that I think is wrong, being deleted. It was quite on topic! Perhaps with the end of the election contest (however it turns out) SP can reach deep down and find some humor tailored toward, well, reasonable people.
Tj @24
”[…]but he is also correct that he has almost singlehandedly, properly shifted the debate from the near-meaningless voter credit shortfall, to the question of precinct-level reconciliation.”
I have no doubt that Goldy shifted his debating point from the wrong emphasis. He, along with many others were not talking the correct language back then.
Ow! I meant to bold only “many others”…sorry!
Off topic, Goldy –
You going to put in a “Preview” function? I hate it when I screw up tags…
christmasghost – Who are you? What do you do? Where do live? Where is your Web site? Come clean you wraith. Reveal yourself. Until you do you have no business, nor does Mr Cynical CAPS and all, to comment on anybody’s identity here.
“christmasghost – Who are you? What do you do? Where do live? Where is your Web site? Come clean you wraith. Reveal yourself. Until you do you have no business, nor does Mr Cynical CAPS and all, to comment on anybody’s identity here.”
>>>daniel k….that is the best laugh i have had all day…thanks.
goldy knows who i am……
but if you must know:
i am a human being. i am an artist.i live in washington.my website is http://www.christmasghost.com…….and YES…i’ll come clean…i hate using caps. LOL.
i am a human being. i am an artist.i live in washington.my website is http://www.christmasghost.com
Hardly revealing. Keep hiding then.
daniel…i answered every one of your questions. what else would you like to know? i am hardly hiding…unless it’s in plain sight.ask away…….
christmasghost – What is your real name? Where do you work, and for who? Where do you live (City)? Human artist in Washington is still too anonymous. Come clean about yourself or else spare us your lectures about other anonymous people.
FWIW, I’ll accept you not revealing yourself because it is your right to want anonymity if you accept the same applies to others.
Daniel K–
I know exactly who torridjoe is…but have refrained from revealing his name. That is not the issue Dude.
The issue is torridjoe is a government employee using a government computer and government internet access in a government office in a government building while on the clock to post partisan political stuff (some of it enlightening by the way). Nothing else. I am a self-employed CPA. I am not compensated for any of my posting nor has anyone EVER told what to post and what not to post.
I am interested in this because I want fair elections.
I support Rossi because 20 years of rule by any political party results in bureaucratic goo and entrenched bureaucrats and their cronies. I voted for 7 Democrats in the last election.
My name is not important…nor is torridjoe’s or anyone else’s.
Government employees posting on government time IS an issue.
Are you a government employee Daniel K???
You seem obsessed with others. What is your schtick?
Mr Cynical – I am a self-employed CPA
Why should we believe you?
The issue is you hide behind your handle. If you don’t like what someone says then argue your points based on the merits of the case.
If Shark doesn’t agree with what someone is saying he starts checking on their IP address to see where they are commenting from, then tells his sycophants, and the witch hunt begins.
If the validity of discussion depends on where you get your computer access then we better all come out and reveal where we are, who we are, who we work for. That’s not likely to happen on the blogosphere.
If you want to limit discourse to only those people that do reveal themselves then there are a whole lot of people who you eliminate from participation, yourself included.
Are you ready to commit to that standard?
DanielK@34. Whats with the dump on christmasghost. Tell me this, tell me that. You sound an awful lot like the poster that wanted to run a check on TJ. Same mode of operendi. You no comprende.
Daniel K @al
I agree with your premise as superimposed upon Mr. Cynical. One cannot have a double-standard, just as much as a soliloquy is invalid due to bias.
This is why the issue of tj as an ‘outed’ individual is not something I could give credence to even if Mr Cynical posted a name. I don’t care, and it is not pertinent to the debate. Debate in this forum is predicated (in part) on the anonymity of the individual. Thus DK, I do not care who christmasghost, tj, or you are.
Daniel @ 32:
Hardly revealing. Keep hiding then.
On this, Lao Zi says:
三十輻 Thirty spokes
共一轂 Come together around a hub
當其無 but it is the empty space [imp. for an axle]
有車之用。 makes a wheel useful
埏埴以為器 Clay is turned into a bowl
當其無 but it’s the empty space [imp. in the middle of a bowl]
有器之用 which makes the bowl useful.
鑿戶牖以為室 windows and doors are cut into a room
當其無 but it is the empty space [of the windows and doors]
有室之用 which makes the room useful
故有之以為利 we put value on what is there.
無之以為用 but make use of what is not.
There’s a lot of useful empty space in christmasghost’s website and messages.
Goldy you’ve become a parasite, without sound politics you’d have to find another host to devour. Seriously you’d be nothing on your own, everytime I come on here you aren’t talking your own findings your talking about why sound politics is wrong. From a psychological perspective you are making up for your shortcomings in play writing by critiquing and tearing down others. LOL funny as hell if you ask me.
Daniel K…….
Very honestly….whenever you get upset about someone in your “tribe” being questioned about his/her motives, ask yourself this: “If someone that I didn’t like did this…would it still be okay?”
Are there not rules of decent society which we all, regardless of political leanings, must follow?
Obviously Daniel K is hardly your real name right?
Quite a few of us could ‘out’ Torridjoe at any time……but I choose not to, as it seems does Mr.Cynical,because it’s not my place. I wonder if you would make the same choice if you had something on some conservative you didn’t like? Maybe…I would like to think so, anyway.
It really has absolutely nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with someone. It’s the fact that what they are doing is wrong. Period.Not because of what they say….but because of what they are doing. I would never ‘punish’ someone because I didn’t like their opinions or point of view.I am a big fan of free speech. Can you say the same?
When you are a government employee in one State and you spend most of the day blogging/posting on your employer’s [the citizen’s] dime, and interfering with an election in another State…you know, funny thing, I am going to have a problem with you for several reasons….none of them partisan.
Now this person could do all this at night on his own time but he doesn’t. And that is nothing more than stealing.
I am surprised that you don’t have a problem with this also.It hurts all of us when people do this.It’s intellectually dishonest, it’s a waste of taxpayer money, and it’s really offensive when the person in question goes so far as to “interview” an employee of OUR SOS’s office…..and you know it had to be during work.So…double government money spent. Are you starting to see the picture yet?
So…if you saw a liberal Democrat, or a friend of yours, stealing something or breaking into a house….would you not turn them in because he’s from your “side”? This is the mentality you are promoting here.
There is a really good saying you might follow….”It’s not who’s right, it’s what’s right”.
Pretty simple really, and you can’t ever go wrong.
If you want to know who I am go to my blog and email me…I have no problem being honest.
JSA@39…VERY VERY GOOD………..
I agree w/ you Goldy, I think the Sound Politics people are getting out of control. Probably too much Hoobastank.
At least my blog – I make an attempt to get the truth. Unlike a local radio station that says, “You Deserve the Truth”; I just find the facts and stand by ’em until more are found.
Remember, you all, this Dinocrat supported a runoff on 1 December. Ralph Munro need not think for me.
Remember, you all, this Dinocrat supported counting the legit no-signature-on-file/Larry Phillips ballots.
Remember, you all, this Dinocrat also condemned the BIAW’s means to checking signatures. Instead, I recommended borrowing an idea of Bill Clinton’s and hiring a private investigator to get the signatures.
Oh and that radio station I mentioned? Republican Radio – http://www.republicanradio.com – moved from that station to another. I wonder why off of 770 KTTH?!?
Chee @ 37 asked,”Whats with the dump on christmasghost. Tell me this, tell me that. You sound an awful lot like the poster that wanted to run a check on TJ.”
As I said before Chee, I don’t care who these people are. It is their right to stay anonymous. And they should allow others that same right. My point is that they keep harping on about how they haven’t “outed” anyone, yet that’s exactly what they have been doing. As marks said, they set a double standard when they do so. Today it is TJ, tomorrow it will be someone else. This practice has been going on without anyone calling them on it here and so I’m doing so because it crosses the line.
christmasghost @41
You know tj. You know his name. You know where he works. I don’t care. Of many folks who post here, tj has been unremittingly pro-G. I hate it. Having said that, I don’t care if his employer, whether the City of Portland or the corner grocer, allows him the latitude of blogging on breaks. If you know he is doing something wrong, do something about it. You know where he works…
Do you know I am a fiscal (and on many issues, social) conservative? Do you know that I voted for George W. Bush? Who cares? You should…you are letting partisanship blind you.
Dino should hold the Governor’s mansion. You and I, and anyone else who holds such a view should welcome tj’s assessments as being well argued. Attacking the messenger serves no purpose…
christmasghost @ 41 suggests, “Obviously Daniel K is hardly your real name right?”
Actually it is. It is just less cumbersome to write out my full last name. But that’s not hidden from you – it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to determine it from my URL.
“I am a big fan of free speech. Can you say the same?”
That you are a big fan of free speech? You have a funny way of showing it. But of course you’re asking if I am. Absolutely. Which is why I support a person’s right to voice opinions anonymously without retribution for who they are, or accusation, or insinuation of either, even while I myself choose to go by my own name, and use my real email address, knowing full well it makes me more vulnerable to various forms of attack.
“It’s the fact that what they are doing is wrong.”
Glad you are a champion of what’s wrong. So tell me why it is then that NOBODY at SP is willing to come out and state they believe that what the BIAW did by sending out a fraudulent mailing was wrong? Even Josef realizes it was wrong. Standing up against such deceit doesn’t have to undermine your support for Rossi. Not standing up against it certainly does.
Would you try answering some of the questions that I asked you, as I did yours, daniel?
Are you deliberately avoiding the question? Is it okay to steal from all of us if the person is on your “side”? How hard is that to answer? Isn’t this a valid question?
Goldy you’ve become a parasite, without sound politics you’d have to find another host to devour.
Hard to believe this anymore though.
Goldy’s solo operation now looks to be dominating SP. If they didn’t have Matt over there contributing, the posting and traffic would be down another 30 percent.
I think Stefan had the edge in the re-vote media campaign as he ws able to plug his site on talk radio and in the newspapers better. Now though hes struggling to come with much new material.
Still, don’t count SP out. They have alot of coverage from the media, lots of contributors and a connection to talk radio.
What happened to the beer thread? How did I get lost in this thread? I just woke up after a really bad nightmare. BTW, who won the last election? Rossi? Twice over? Great! That ought to improve the business climate in this state. What? What? You say that some blood-sucking, tear-gushing, ballot-box stuffing, liberal fascist group did what? And it’s ok to vote if you’re not a citizen, previously sent in your provisional ballot, are less than three months dead, live three states away, vacation in Arizona or work on days that end in a “Y”?????? Tell me it isn’t so. Don’t lie to me now, ok?
christmasghost @ 47 asks, “Is it okay to steal from all of us if the person is on your “side”?”
Who is stealing from me? How is it relevant to every topic of discussion here? How do you know that “stealing” is even happening? Do people everywhere at work places surf the Web? Sure. Should that be disallowed? That’s up to the employer. Does it mean they are eating into their work day? How do I know? They might work extra hours to make up the lost time. They might be on a break. They might have the ability and right to sign in externally via a VPN that makes it look like they are actually at a work site when they are not. I don’t make it my business to investigate what is none of my business. You don’t have the answers to these questions either, I’m sure, yet you’ve decided to publically pass judgement here and elsewhere to undermine someone you don’t agree with nevertheless.
Let me throw it back at you. I’ve decided you’re an artist working on a piece commissioned by King County for display at City Hall. I am sure you have not had time to work on the piece because you’re hanging around here all day and night, or at SP, or working on your own blog site. I’m convinced that you have been charging the City for this time because your commission was awarded on a time and materials basis and sources tell me the charges for the piece are way out of line with the amount you could ever bring in for the resultant work. I’m telling everyone here that’s the truth because, hey, I said it was so, and unlike Goldy everything I write is the truth. I’ve sullied your name. I’ve called you on your dirty ploy. I’ve stood up for the poor taxpayers who will be dumped on with the exorbitant bill. I am righteous in my campaign to rid the world of another freeloading artist and people will be praising my name for it!
Yeah, complete and utter bollocks isn’t it, but so easy for anyone here to do.
Daniel……..
Okay….have we established the fact that you won’t answer a straight forward question?
You jump all over the place without answering the question….why?
And could you at least tell me how I have a funny way of showing that I am a big fan of free speech. Just because you don’t like what I have to say…does not mean that I don’t have tremendous respect for free speech…and would never interfere with anyone’s right to it.I would love to see you back that up.Free speech and dishonest activities are two different things…right?
You give your bias away when you said “EVEN josef….” that one little word “even” as if it is the farthest thing from reality.
But if you can show me where I have NOT RESPECTED someone else’s free speech…I will correct the problem immediately.
And as for the BIAW’s activities. Is it fraud? No.Legally ,no.
Is it underhanded? Yes….it is. But it is also perfectly legal.Would I do it? No …I wouldn’t. I don’t think stooping to your opponents tactics is ever a good thing.I think it showcases the biggest problem with one party controlling a State for too long…Washington and Oregon are both good examples.After a long period of time there is such a power hungry infrastructure in place that they become a bully with a deathgrip that is almost impossible to break.And that ,unfortunately, encourages both parties to fight dirty.
Now…how about you? Do you think it was okay for the Democrats to be able to go door to door and ONLY correct the signatures of people who voted for Gregoire?
Daniel K –
Sorry for stealing any thunder you may have wielded, but this by CG (no, in this case I mean ChristmasGhost) is not right…’Nuff said.
DANIEL@50…Behold the silly lefty. Foot in mouth….
Listen if someone is working for the government, and he is blogging/posting during work hours he is STEALING.
Yes…and my biggest worry is sullying torrid joe’s name. Torridjoe???? Get it?
Can you answer questions up front or are you always this obtuse?
marks @ 45, Daniel K @ up there
Well put. All should lay off the personal attacks (except against those who seem to enjoy the fight such as Don) and make all of out time spent here more productive.
christmasghost asked, “Do you think it was okay for the Democrats to be able to go door to door and ONLY correct the signatures of people who voted for Gregoire?”
No. But it happened because a judge deemed it was within the law. Should it happen again? I hope that it doesn’t and election reform laws are passed to ensure as much.
He also stated, “And as for the BIAW’s activities. Is it fraud? No.Legally ,no.
Is it underhanded? Yes….it is. But it is also perfectly legal.Would I do it? No …I wouldn’t. I don’t think stooping to your opponents tactics is ever a good thing.”
So why not use your influence at SP to state as much? They had at least two entries you had an opportunity to chime in on. BTW, I wouldn’t be so sure this was legal. It comes very close to the legal definition of mail fraud in that the mailing contained misleading descriptions about its purpose.
So we seem to have established the fact that not ‘even’ one leftie on here will step up to the plate and condemn bad behavior when it is one of their own. Meanwhile….in the news and on here, note all the long bony accusatory fingers from them pointing at every Republican.
Self righteous hypocrites………
christmasghost – Ah! So you are a blind artist.
Close only counts in horseshoes…and for it to be fraud the person would have had to be defrauded of something. What would that be?
They cashed a check. Do I think it’s kosher? No. but….when you live by the sword ,you die by the sword. Have you met Paul Berendt?
As for me working on a commission piece for King County? Wouldn’t do it…….I’m an artist remember? I actually care where my paintings are….if I wanted them in the world’s largest outhouse, I would put them in King County myself….but I don’t.
DANIEL@ 57….SAYS…”christmasghost – Ah! So you are a blind artist.
I know I will be sorry I asked…..but you are so clever with this I’m afraid I don’t get it…
Is this another slam on people who have disabilities?
Adriel @40,
You cut me to the bone. And it was you, above all, from whom I sought affirmation.
Christmasghost @41,
TJ is “interfering with an election”? Huh?
And really… knowing where somebody works doesn’t really tell you anything about how they work. TJ’s productivity is between him and his manager. Blogging from work is not “stealing” if he’s getting his job done, and done well. Have you ever worked at a tech job? Have you ever been in an office of software engineers, where the staff spends half the day playing foos ball? There’s all kinds of downtime as databases compile and jobs run and so forth, where staff takes a break in one way or another, only to come back more productive. So really, enough of this.
christmasghost said, “As for me working on a commission piece for King County? Wouldn’t do it…….I’m an artist remember? I actually care where my paintings are….if I wanted them in the world’s largest outhouse, I would put them in King County myself….but I don’t.”
Is that paranoia, christmasghost? Eventhough I clearly concocted a made up background on you you feel compelled to defend yourself against it, christmasghost? Doesn’t that seem a little too defensive of you, christmasghost? Perhaps you really are guilty, christmasghost.
See how ridiculous that is. See how patronizing and mocking I can make it sound just by using your name over and over.
christmasghost said, “DANIEL@ 57….SAYS…”christmasghost – Ah! So you are a blind artist.
I know I will be sorry I asked…..but you are so clever with this I’m afraid I don’t get it…
Is this another slam on people who have disabilities”
You wrote, “So we seem to have established the fact that not ‘even’ one leftie on here will step up to the plate and condemn bad behavior when it is one of their own.“, when I had just posted my reply to your question regarding the Dems going around to get signatures. But I guess you conveniently decided to ignore the answer.
Goldy,
Actually my family owns a high tech company…and surfing during business hours or on company computers is forbidden. Besides…we are talking about a government employee here.
Daniel…I was answering one of your posts so I guess I didn’t see the new one. Do you always behave in such a childish manner? You still haven’t answered the questions.
This is Goldy’s most arrogant post yet. For those who have been reading HA for awhile, you should begin to see a pattern. When Goldy gets bested, he gets viscious and strikes back with words. In Goldy’s vision of Seattle Politics, the sun is HorsesAss.org.
Look for Goldy to start whining soon about why the Stranger offered Stefan Sharkansky a weekly column. Goldy will do a good job of rationalizing it as not fitting with the paper, etc. But the real reason will be that Goldy’s pitiful little ego has been damaged, and he’s just jealous.
Kudos to Jim Miller, he knows how to write, but more importantly, he’s writes like an adult.
But the real reason will be that Goldy’s pitiful little ego has been damaged, and he’s just jealous.
He might be. I have never met Goldy. Perhaps he does wish he was with Carlson yucking it up about how Rossi is doing so well with each court new appearance.
However, HA seems to be getting more and more popular which is no small act considering he’s running it solo. So I don’t think he’s jeleous in that respect.
Fire in the hole tonight. Must be roast your post and host night! :-)
christmasghost@63. The header says the topic is “Every thing I say is a lie.” Everyone is lying.
Jeff B @64,
I’m confused… are you accusing me of being “viscous” or “vicious?”
Erik @65,
Actually, I love doing talk radio. Can’t stand listening to it, but love doing it. It’s Carlson I envy, not Sharkansky.
Goldy.
The Government’s Lies “Every government is run by liars, and nothing they say should be believed,” remarked journalist-gadfly I. F. Stone at the height of the Cold War. WE, being a by-the-people governemt, it is a-okay when in Rome to do as the Romans do Goldy.
Xmas
” When you are a government employee in one State and you spend most of the day blogging/posting on your employer’s [the citizen’s] dime, and interfering with an election in another State…you know, funny thing, I am going to have a problem with you for several reasons….none of them partisan.
Now this person could do all this at night on his own time but he doesn’t. And that is nothing more than stealing.
I am surprised that you don’t have a problem with this also.It hurts all of us when people do this.It’s intellectually dishonest, it’s a waste of taxpayer money, and it’s really offensive when the person in question goes so far as to “interview” an employee of OUR SOS’s office…..and you know it had to be during work.So…double government money spent. Are you starting to see the picture yet?”
Link? I see why asking people who are in a position to know is offensive to you–you don’t seem troubled by not having any information, before reaching a conclusion and preaching against it.
At least you aren’t further embarrasing yourself by commenting on the substance of the topics you litter with your citizen’s jihad. If you tried to argue on point, I don’t get the sense you’d come out so well. Which is my guess as to why you are launching such a broadside–but hey, I don’t want to speculate on something I may not have accurately framed.
marks @ 45
Unremittingly pro-G? I’m not sure I’ve ever said anything good about Gregoire, and that’s really the truth. I didn’t like that she blackmailed the country to pay for the recount, and she seems fairly uninspiring (although she may well be a competent executive).
I’m against the revote, because as far as the statutes indicate and the conditions of the election make clear, there is no cause for one. I wasn’t anti-Rossi when the recounts started, but boy I am now. He’s not handling this well, IMO.
It’s Carlson I envy, not Sharkansky.
Oh.
ghost @ 31
Hmmm, that’s an interesting web site you have there. Your blog for March 7, 2005, starts out:
“After spending some time doing research on the far left … often by posting on liberal blogs, and then backtracking their most vocal posters I have discovered some very interesting things about them. The most important thing to remember when reading any of their posters is they are never who they want you to think they are. They are also all incredibly paranoid. Probably as a result of the fact that about 80% of them seem to be blogging/posting on their employer’s dime. And their employers are an interesting group mainly made up of government agencies.”
Backtracking posters? Checking on who they work for? I suggest that if you’re ever tempted to reveal that kind of information about other posters you’d better either be judgment proof or have a damn good lawyer.
Vicious Goldy. Sheesh, rather trollish to nitpick spelling errors. Hey, if you want to install a spell checker in your blogging software, that would be great. I would use it.
Don’t you have a whining post about Stefan in the Strager to write?
Cynical @ 35
20 years of the sky not falling is not a good reason to elect a wacko.
You still haven’t answered the questions.
Predictable answer.
Adriel @ 40
Sweeping up horse shit may not be a glamorous job, but it’s a necessary job. Keep up the good work, Goldy!
ghost @ 41
How is TJ “interfering with an election”?
marks @ 45
Why should Rossi hold the governor’s mansion? Rossi himself claims we don’t know who won. Accepting, for a moment, this proposition as true for the purpose of argument, what entitles him to be governor? The farthest you can go with this argument is that Gregoire should not be governor. It’s not a basis to put Rossi in that chair, as you have done.
Jeff B. wrote, “Look for Goldy to start whining soon about why the Stranger offered Stefan Sharkansky a weekly column.”
Good thing the rag is free. Can’t imagine anyone paying to read his drivel. And that photo of Shark is quite demonic.
BTW, are people really born Republican? Now that’s a trick.
zapporo @ 49
There there, little one, go back to sleep. Everything will be fine! Anecdotal evidence indicates most of these noncitizen votes, double votes, dead votes, nonresident votes, and felon votes are for Rossi.
ghost @ 53
Let’s try a couple scenarios here.
1. A soldier in Iraq is on duty 24/7, and is paid 24/7. He has just come in from a street patrol and is now in the barracks reading a Playboy magazine. Is he stealing from his employer?
2. An ambulance driver’s private employer lets him do whatever he wants between calls. He is surfing the internet. Is he stealing from his employer?
3. A fireman works a 24-on, 24-off shift. When on duty, he eats and sleeps in the station house, cleans and maintains equipment, and when there’s idle time he watches TV, reads, or blogs on the internet. Is he stealing from his employer?
An employee is stealing from his employer if he’s not working when he’s supposed to be working. I think all of us will agree that if a fireman kept watching TV after the alarm went off, he’s stealing the wages he’s being paid to fight fires, because he’s not fighting the fire. On the other hand he’s not stealing by watching TV when there’s no fire or other work to do, even though he’s on the clock and being paid. That’s because he’s not being paid to not watch TV, he’s being paid to fight fires, and as long as he goes to the fire when the alarm goes off he’s doing his job. Most kids can figure this out; why do you seem to have so much difficulty with it?
TJ @ 71
How did Gregoire “blackmail the country?” She said recount the whole state or none of it, so people all over the country sent money to the Democrats for a statewide recount. How is that blackmail? Looks pretty damn voluntary to me.
As for the rest of your post, Dubya does a fine job of inspiring people (I gotta admit his rhetoric sounds good most of the time) but I’d trade him for a competent president in a heartbeat.
Jeff B. 2 74
It’s spelled “Stranger” not “Strager.”
(This particular spelling error is a “German blimp.” The definition of “German blimp” is a “target so fat and juicy you can’t resist shooting at it even if it has no military significance.”)
PROVE the straight poop on illegal aliens registered to vote WRONG.
The INS low estimate of illegal aliens in Washington State as 136,000, with a high estimate of nearly a quarter million.
In regard to the issue of identifying illegal aliens who have registered to vote unlawfully, add a feature to your blog which will allow anyone to report “suspected unlawful registration and voting” by such illegal aliens.
RecallReed.blogspot.com would tackle this but do not have the resources to do it justice. Such a reporting mechanism would allow anyone to report someone in Washington State who is suspected to be an illegal alien who may have a driver’s license and may be an unlawfully registered voter.
An organization called http://www.noninvaders.org/ http://www.noinvaders.org/report_employers.php has already developed a state-by-state directory of photographs and profiles of employers/individuals who hire illegal aliens.
Anyone who knows someone who currently employs aliens not lawfully allowed to work in the United States can report contact information of employer/individual so http://www.noninvaders.org can post information in their directory.
don@78 asked……..
“How is TJ “interfering with an election”?
Well,part of the way people like Joe interfere with elections is by muddying the water and acting like they have a horse in the race. A prime example of this follows……….Joe@70
“I’m against the revote, because as far as the statutes indicate and the conditions of the election make clear, there is no cause for one. I wasn’t anti-Rossi when the recounts started, but boy I am now. He’s not handling this well, IMO.”Comment by torridjoe— 3/9/05 @ 11:34 pm
>>>>And we [washington residents] should care how you feel about Rossi…WHY? Do you see how Joe makes it sound as if he is an unhappy voter here? And this is some of his milder rhetoric.
And then Joe makes this classic comment….
“At least you aren’t further embarrasing yourself by commenting on the substance of the topics you litter with your citizen’s jihad. If you tried to argue on point, I don’t get the sense you’d come out so well. Which is my guess as to why you are launching such a broadside–but hey, I don’t want to speculate on something I may not have accurately framed.
Comment by torridjoe— 3/9/05 @ 11:34 pm
Joe…. citizen’s jihad???? Oh get real…this is the best you can do when you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar? That is the silliest thing I have ever heard.You are just not that important, and Portland is not my problem. Now if you could only figure out that Washington isn’t yours…….
>>>And Don, we are not talking about a soldier, ambulance driver or fireman now.We are talking about a government employee that is costing everyone time and money. So I guess I should just tune out any liberal when they start whining about there not being enough money for the kids…..right? Boy ,when the People’s Republic of Portland falls there sure will be a loud crash…and happy celebrating from the rest of the state…oh, except for Eugene of course.
So I guess i have just established the fact that none of you will ever step up to the plate and condemn the bad behavior of one of your own. Before any of you go on and on about those “terrible Republicans” ever again…maybe you should think twice.
Although goldy, and some of you, are lying all the time….guess what? The rest of the people aren’t. Amusing that you would think that everyone is just as dishonest as the lot here.
AND DANIEL K….you couldn’t answer a straight question if your life depended on it. What’s the point?
“Well,part of the way people like Joe interfere with elections is by muddying the water and acting like they have a horse in the race.”
You gotta be kidding! A guy in Oregon who expresses his opinion about an election in Washington after the election is over is “interfering with the election”?! You must have overdosed on oxygen. You should quit sniffing that stuff.
Don @ 83
She blackmailed the country IMO by saying “pay for my statewide recount, or I will concede.” If she thought it was that important, she should have said she’d do whatever it took, and for people to please help her. The tone she took was, “if you won’t help me, I won’t help myself.”
When I say “the country” I mean Democrats and progressives outside of Washington. They bailed her out, and it was the right thing to do–but she made it seem like she would only fight if others took it up for her.
ghost @ 86
how can people condemn bad behavior when they don’t know any bad behavior is being exhibited?
torridjoe writes – how can people condemn bad behavior when they don’t know any bad behavior is being exhibited?
ghost – I demand to know when you stopped beating your wife and ignoring your children to post on this board.
Why won’t any conservatives come out and say that ghost’s beating of his wife and ignoring of his children is bad? Why do you hate women and children?
christmasghost stated, “We are talking about a government employee that is costing everyone time and money.”
Wait, you just said that since TJ is in Portland he has no business commenting on the election in Washington: “Washington isn’t your [problem]”, yet you grant yourself to get involved in the business of Portlanders. You say he is costing “everyone” time and money. Although that has not been proven, if he were costing anyone time and money, it would be people in Portland, not you. And as you said, Portland is not your problem, nor are their affairs.
As for constantly harping on that I’m not answering your question, why don’t you pick one I haven’t answered? If it your thesis about TJ, I’ve answered that all the way back @ 50. If you don’t like that answer that’s your problem, not mine.
Hey guys Sharkansky has a column in the stranger now. Pretty funny how we have one lefty that tears his concerns down, and another that gives him a pulpit to voice them from.
TJ @ 88
I think you’re misinterpreting her reaction to the situation she found herself in. First, even many Democrats will acknowledge that a selective recount of only counties that favored their candidate would reek. She wanted no part of it. Second, a prolonged and partisan post-election battle would be harmful to the election process and state government, and she didn’t have much appetite for that either. Third, when she decided to run for governor she had no idea that she and — more importantly — her family were going to be put through something like this, and it was all wearing very thin on her. There’s a time to concede, and she came very close to deciding that time had come. What would you have done differently in her shoes?
christmasghost@42:
…VERY VERY GOOD………..
Meh, it was the best translation I could do in 10 minutes or less. One part of the pattern of the Dao De Ching was emphasised, but another was lost.
Focus on the utility of 無 and everything will work out fine.
TJ stated, She blackmailed the country IMO by saying “pay for my statewide recount, or I will concede.â€
Is that an actual quote? I know this one is: “My request of the state Democratic Party is simple: Count the entire state or don’t count at all. Counting every vote is the only right thing to do.”
She was right. Had she asked and paid for only a recount of King County votes that would have been a very poor choice politically, regardless of the likelihood it would have been the best one to change the final tally. I believe it would have also then prompted a full recount statewide by the SoS if it changed the final tally.
Daniel @ 94
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....re03m.html
“Democrat Christine Gregoire says she will concede the governor’s race to Dino Rossi today unless her party raises enough money for a statewide recount.”
TJ @ 95
That’s not a quote by Gregoire, that’s just paraphrasing by the reporter. To then read it as a threat is a huge stretch. Sounds simply like a statement of fact. She wouldn’t have any choice if a manual recount couldn’t be paid for. She’d already stated she’d only agree to a full recount.
That’s not blackmail on her part. That’s not a threat, and it isn’t a direct quote.
Daniel, it’s quite clear from the article. It’s noted twice that she wanted a statewide recount or she’d quit, once bracketed by a direct quote. I don’t understand what you mean by statement of fact–it was totally within her power to order the recount, but she refused unless others ponied up the money. She did nothing I’m aware of to try to raise that money herself.
Saying she’d only do a statewide was foolish. It was a meaningless gesture–she knew if she simply asked for King, Pierce and Snohomish, it would turn the election and there would be an automatic statewide recount anyway. Why she expected the rest of the Democratic Party to pay for a recount in her state, I have no idea. It was either her job, or the state’s. Either way, the state was going to pay for it in the end.
TJ @ 97
Well you’re entitled to your interpretation, but I disagree with it. Keep in mind the backdrop of this was how the Florida recounts in 2000 went. There was a lot of bad blood at how Gore tried to pick and choose where the counting occurred. Miami Herald investigations eventually determine that had he actually asked for a statewide recount he would have won Florida. IMO Gregoire was looking to avoid that messy scenario. I think she realized that this was a statewide election and that as such any recount should be statewide. I cannot even begin to think of the brouhaha a partial recount would have created (and that’s knowing that some people actually BELIEVE today that a partial recount did happen!).
Daniel
Then call for a statewide recount, and personally seek to raise the money. She didn’t do that–she simply said “if you don’t pay, I quit.” She did not press for the recount at all, IMO, and I found her attitude unfortunate.
In any case, we can disagree. The reason I brought it up was to indicate that I am not some Gregoire cheerleader. I’d never heard of her until November. I have no special affection for her that drives my opinion on the revote. I’m evaluating its propriety based almost entirely on statute and case law.
tj @71
“Unremittingly pro-G? […]I wasn’t anti-Rossi when the recounts started, but boy I am now.”
My mistake: it should be “irredeemably anti-Rossi”…I don’t know if the semantics involved makes any difference to your residual bias, other than for the record…
Daniel K @98
I agree. The PR war machine from the opposition would have drowned Gregoire had she done a selective recount.
marks @ 100
My opinion of Rossi developed after I’d formed an opinion on the governor’s election, so if anything it’s revote bias that soured me on Rossi. That, and his retention of the reckless Chris Vance as his mouthpiece.
tj,
I agree with your Chris Vance opinion. I would call that my own residual bias…
Marks @ 102
You’re really shaping up as one of the “good Republicans” here, if I may presume your affiliation…
tj @103
It gets old calling somebody names, or focusing on an issue not related to the issue at hand. I would not call me a “good Republican” in any circumstance, but Republican, nonetheless…
I don’t mean “faithful” as much as I mean “reasoned.” :)
I will try to live up to that. In any case, you have a knack for being so reasoned, and I would prefer to debate based on that ability. I won’t always agree with your assesments, but the value of them is unmistakable from my point of view.
tj & marks–
I think I’m gonna cry…or puke, if you don’t stop the back-patting BS!!
Take your love-fest somewhere else.
Man Cynical, you know how to ruin a good drinking binge…
TJ @ 97
“she refused unless others ponied up the money”
This is saying nothing. Gregoire is not wealthy and can’t pay for a campaign herself. All of her four runs for public office depended on donors “ponying up” money. This is true of most other politicians, too. I really don’t understand what your issue is.
The recount was an extension of the campaign, and the cost of the recount was a campaign expense. WSDP did the fundraising for the recount for two reasons. One, the Gregoire Campaign spent its money by Election Day, and had nothing left over to pay for a recount. Two, after Election Day, the campaign organization not only could no longer legally solicit funds, but had ceased to exist. From then on, the state party was the only entity that could raise funds and act on her behalf. Obviously, Gregoire as the candidate and Berendt as the state party chair had to talk to each other, and had to get on the same page before anything could happen. It appears Berendt initially wanted a partial recount because that’s all the party could afford, but Gregoire rejected that option, so Berendt decided to raise funds. I don’t know what your assumptions or beliefs are, but the party did not have the money in hand, and the recount was not a sure thing. Emily’s List, Gregoire’s biggest campaign contributor, made a substantial donation to the recount fund in order to protect their investment in her campaign. The Kerry-Edwards campaign kicked in another large sum. The rest was mostly small donations, nearly all of which came in via the internet, as a result of Gregoire’s cause being promoted nationally by various liberal and Democratic organizations including Air America talk radio. So of course a lot of those donations came in from out of state. The fact Berendt raised the $750,000 in four days made it look much easier than it actually was. By Election Day, practically everyone who contributes to political campaigns was tapped out. On the Democratic side, people emptied their wallets for Kerry and a host of other candidates, and it was very tough to come back after the voting was over to ask contributors to cough up again. Probably two thirds of the 750G came from Emily’s List and Kerry-Edwards, and it was very tough to get the rest.
TJ @ 99
It was illegal for her to personally raise the money.
Cynical @ 107
Say what??? This is a liberal blog. If you don’t like the Democratic love-fest here, take yourself someplace else.
Don @all — You’re here! Right on! Sober? If not, please check the drinking liberally thread. It’s an urgent matter. Really it is.
Don, you’re missing the point. The mechanics of the money raising I get. What I’m saying is that Gregoire, personally, did not advocate for herself. There is campaigning for money in the direct sense, and then there is campaigning for your candidacy and raising money to support it. Gregoire did not, IMO, effectively campaign for her candidacy at that point. She did the opposite, in fact–she told people she would give up, unless.
I think you aked what should she have done. I’ll tell you–she should have held a press conference and said, “I will not let down the voters of Washington who had confidence in my leadership. I know that with an election this close, we need to validate as many individual votes as we can, and we can only do that with a hand recount. The more we can look at, the better. But I can’t do it alone. If we’re going to find out who really won, it’s going to take money—AND I NEED YOUR HELP. Let’s win this for the people of Washington. Let’s show our committment to getting it right.”
That’s leadership. What I want from my leaders is the ability to listen to all counsel, try to hear as many viewpoints as they can, and then say, “Here’s what we’re going to do.” And then act. What Gregoire said was, “I won’t act. You show me you want me to act.” I found that to be an entirely strange attitude for a leader to take: to shift the responsibility for whether her campaign continued–not the power, but the responsibility–away from her.
adriel @ 91 I heard from a good source that shark paid them to let him post. He is beside himself when he looked at the past six posts on his sight and on Goldy’s Sharks 112 for last 6, Goldy 313 for last 6. He understands that he has no chance to compete against a forum where even neocons like yourself are allowed to post. He is DESPERATE
Jpgee @ 114
You’re accusing Sharkansky of paying to get a column in the Stranger? Not likely. The Stranger wouldn’t risk their credibility. Also, I believe journalistic standards (or perhaps even the law) would have to disclose that this was a paid piece (i.e. “advertorial”).
As for the difference in thread responses… Are you counting Shark’s own posts or including the ones written by others (and often cross-posted)? Shark also seems to have more original posted stories per day than Goldy. This would divide up the response interest because people wouldn’t be vested in a given discussion/debate/etc. The true measure of his success would be to measure the daily hits each site gets and MAYBE the number of responses per DAY, not post.
The Bush social security plan would work if Shrub would appoint brother Neal to manage the trust fund and buy stocks in companies President Bush would give no-bid contracts to. The fund would triple in a week, vote George W. in as a monarch and live happily ever after.
Give Robert Blake a medal for killing Bonnie Bakley. I met Bonnie in Memphis in 1986 when she was stalking “The Killer”, Jerry Lee.
Well, you have to admit that most of the screwups and illegal votes happened here in Dem-heavy King County.
Also, the fraud being investigated in Wisconsin happened in Dem-heavy areas. Also, the people who slashed tires on vans to keep them from taking republican voters to the polls were ….DEMOCRATS!
Well, you have to admit that most of the screwups and illegal votes happened here in Dem-heavy King County.
News-Flash: You have to admit that nearly 1/3 of the states votes happened in one county, right here, in population-heavy King County.
Second News Flash: rocks and dirt don’t vote.
The only reason that you perceive that most of the screwups happened in KC is because that’s what Rossi and the Repubs are investigating. Gregoire and the Dems have little invested in going out and smearing voters across the state in an effort to undercover the irregularities that go on in every election. They’re content to let county officials and the SOS do their jobs.
BTW, try doing some reading about voting problems across the nation. Indictments (and some sentences) have been handed down to several people involved in the Bush-Cheney campaign in 2004 for a vote-jamming scandal in Vermont back in 2000. So, get off your high horse.
email:ca920105@gmail.com
I just like spam! I’m collocting junk email…