Yesterday, GOPolitburo Chair Chris Vance repeated the mantra that has characterized his party’s PR campaign since the morning after the election:
Republicans are now “absolutely convinced that King County is trying to steal this election,”
Sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly, sometimes couched in legalese or pseudo-statistics, sometimes bluntly vicious… the state GOP and their evil elves on the right-wing blogs have relentlessly pushed the message that the only path to Democratic victory is outright fraud and corruption.
And their PR campaign has been a brilliant success. Even one of the most liberal legislators in the state is apparently cowed by the supposed public perception the Republicans have labored so hard to fabricate:
Sen. Adam Kline, D-Seattle, an attorney who will be chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said there is a “popular assumption” that Rossi has won the race, in part because of the Republican’s careful postelection public-relations strategy.
That, he said, will put Democrats “on very, very thin ice with the public” if lawmakers get involved in determining the outcome.
“I would be very, very careful here,” Kline said. “No matter how thoughtful and surgically precise we approached this, if we were seen publicly as trying to steal an election, the ill will we would invite would be worse than four years of Dino Rossi.”
This is shit!
Let’s lay out a few facts here:
A) Statute called for an automatic machine recount, and allows for this hand recount as the final tally. Therefore, Rossi has not won anything.
B) If the 573 legitimate ballots — erroneously disqualified because election workers failed to check the signatures against the original records — had been counted the first time around, it would be Gregoire who would have come out of the mandatory machine recount with a 40-some vote lead… and it would have been Rossi trying to overturn the election by paying for a hand recount.
C) There are approximately 3000 additional ballots that have been disqualified in King County, because unlike some other counties, election workers actually did their job and matched signatures. The vast majority of these are legitimate ballots from legitimately registered voters, whose signatures failed to match those on record, or failed to sign their ballots at all. While the rules may in the end disqualify these ballots, the intent of these voters remains intact: a majority of voters who cast ballots for governor most likely did not choose Dino Rossi.
D) There has been no documented evidence provided of a single incident of fraud or corruption.
So… when Republicans claim that Democrats are trying to “steal this election”, the first thing I ask is, “from whom?”
Had election workers not erroneously disenfranchised those 573 voters, Christine Gregoire would now be the Governor-elect, and Dino Rossi would be the usurper. Okay, shit happens. But more disgusting is the GOP rant that Democrats are trying to overturn the will of the people. Gimme a break! In an election whose margin of victory is too far within the voting technology’s margin of error to provide confidence that we can ever accurately determine the results, such a claim is just downright insulting. And in light of the thousands of voters from Democratic stronghold King County who were disenfranchised on technicalities, it is at least as reasonable to argue that the majority of legal voters intended to elect Gregoire.
Are Democrats trying to take the governorship away from Dino Rossi? Absolutely. But they are not trying to steal anything from the people.
My second question is, “how” are Democrats supposedly stealing this election? By making their case before the Supreme Court, and losing? By counting ballots that should have been counted the first time around? By asking for a hand recount they shouldn’t have had to ask for in first place, that has uncovered hundreds of additional Rossi votes without complaint?
Republicans have accused Democrats of trying to “change the rules in the middle of the game.” But A) this is not a game, and B) if they are attempting to “change the rules” they are doing so by the rules already in place. Statute gives canvassing boards the discretion during a recount to fix any counting and canvassing errors they discover, and that is what Dems are now asking the counties to do.
You want to argue that there has been too much sloppiness and error by election workers in King County, have at it. But it has all disadvantaged Democrats, both in the vote count, and in the PR battle. If this is corruption, it’s the most incompetent corruption I have ever seen.
Yeah, I forgot… us Democrats are all a bunch of liars and cheats, with a long tradition of using electoral fraud to cling to what little power we have left. Well the only reasonable thing to say in response is… fuck you!
I mean it. Every single one of you blinded-by-the-right Rossifarian wingnuts, desperately searching for some enemy to validate your anger… the next time you write an unsupported comment here accusing Democrats of fraud and corruption and malfeasance and vote-stealing and pig-fucking or whatever… remember, you are saying this about ME, personally! And from here on out, I intend to take it personally, and respond in kind.
The truth is, the Republicans knew on election night that the governor’s race was going to be a crap shoot, and their efforts have been as much about delegitimizing a potential Gregoire administration as it has been about assuring a Rossi one. This isn’t about stealing elections, it’s about both sides playing political hardball. And what’s really pissing off Republicans, is that WA state Democrats aren’t just rolling over like their national counterparts.
Yeah, but Goldy, how do you really feel…
I don’t disagree with you on the 561 original ballots. They should have been checked against the signature cards on file, and they weren’t. They should be counted.
That being said, the 12 (or 34) ballots found lose in the machines really shouldn’t be counted. They were not secured as they should be, and the potential for vote tampering is undeniable. If we are going to ensure this recount is done beyond reproach, they really should not be counted.
Ken, I completely empathize with your suspicions on the 22 ballots, but they are all sealed in their absentee and provisional envelopes, with the voters clearly identified. It would be so easy to follow up on these to see if there was some fraudulent attempt to add these ballots after the fact. It just doesn’t make sense.
The most likely explanation is that election workers simply screwed up, and forgot to empty the ballots from the base of the machines. Since the ballots are secured in their envelopes, there could be no tampering.
But like I said, I understand that it looks suspicious.
From my red state perch, Goldy, your last comment about Repub’s real anger being over the legit strength of Dems in Washington state is dead on. Cascadia is one of those easily-idealized places where people take their progressive politics seriously, and where the left has grown such serious hairy balls, they make the Neo Con Job look positively pre-pubescent. However, I am down in the mouth at this race being as close as it was in the first place. It shouldn’t have been.
Comment by Goldy— 12/15/04 @ 11:31 am
Thank you. It’s time to draw the line: You either prove beyond any doubt a chain of custody, or you destroy the ballots. Because if you don’t, then you disenfranchise valid legal votes cast on election day. It’s that simple.
For you not to raise the issue of vote fraud and to take it so personally is respectfully bordering on the absurd. Gregocrats need to realize that when you add ballots in King County, it naturally favors your guy, who’s behind. Hence the suspicion, and look: I agree with you that whomever wins doesn’t have a mandate.
That said: Should the 561 be counted? Depends on the law, but I’ve heard that once certified – you cannot add new ballots. I presume we will see them counted, then segregated as the State Supremes weigh in. Potentially the U.S. Supremes, at some point.
And now you know why so many Dinocrats, centrists and Republicans wanted Gregoire to concede – we saw this nightmare coming. Now the judiciary will decide the winner because we do not have a provision for a revote and/or a runoff.
Susie’s back! How is Ohixas?
And yes, the reds thought they had victory lined up, and now it is a crap shoot. Just like the Dems thought Gregoire was a shoo-in- until they started counting the ballots.
It always hurts most when you’ve thought you’d won, and you barely lose. Ask the Yankees…
I just hope and pray the margin is OUTSIDE the realm of those 22- like Goldy, I’d guess they are legit, and I hope someone HAS been gathering some type of evidence…
But those 22 are the ONLY things, out of almost 3 million things, that come close to stinkin’…
Goldy is right, er, correct. Ain’t no stealin’ going on…
Josef- watching the State Supreme Court hearing- there is no dispute that the 561 should be processed, and counted if legitimate. All parties agreed to that. Elsewhere in the Matrix they prefer to think otherwise, but they haven’t watched the hearing or read the opinion.
Even Rossi said that King County should proceed with those ballots- it was on KING TV news.
Josef, even Sam Reed has said that the 573 should be counted… that’s the purpose of the “safety valve.” And they will be counted.
So you ignore one of my main points… if those 573 had been counted the first time around, it is Gregoire who would have won the machine recount by 40-some votes. Yet now it seems that Rossi stands a good chance of winning the hand recount regardless. Given that scenario, would you still say that we shouldn’t have had a hand recount?
Hear that, Josef? Better read this blog carefully. It’s aimed straight at people like you.
On the topic of close elections and the split electorate, do you guys think Washington state’s closeness has anything to do with so-called morality issues and the supposed rise of Republican fundamentalists? My theory is that out there, future left and right battles will be fought secularly, over environmentalist vs. free market values. Any thoughts appreciated.
I’ve been lurking here for a while. Hi Jim!
No matter where one stands as to the ultimate outcome of this marathon, King Co. Elections has been unconscionable inept and slipshod. If the newly found ballots had been counted in the first place who knows who would be paying for the present count and if these ballots flip the race it will be all of us footing the bill. Of greater concern is the lack of credibility either candidate will be handed to govern in the end.
The electorate is divided and likely there will be more close elections in the future. The state needs higher and more uniform standards, but King Co. stands out as especially bungling. King has cast a dubious cloud over the entire state. Dean and his sidekick Hunekins should be the first to go if only because too much face time explaing away the latest stupid mistake. I am not suggesting dishonesty, just total incompetence on the part of King County bean counters.
I can’t speak for the far-right in our party, but I’m a moderate that’s concerned about what I’m hearing come out of King County not only from my R friends, but the mainstream media. Haven’t accused anybody of cheating, but the extra vote finding looks suspicious to me. I’m a self-proclaimed moderate. I’m giving King County officials the time to investigate, but a GOOD answer why the custody chain isn’t tainted better be forthcoming.
Good for Vance and Berendt for being fervent for their cause. If you can’t be that as party heads who can be. It’s not like their title is being hidden. Opposing party members will often be irritated with them and even some party people take their own guy with a grain of salt.
What is clear to me is that the longer things go on and closer to Christmas we get without resolution–the more irritated people will get and sides apart from the other. This site attacking soundpolitics.com and vice versa is a sign of how things will get worse (no matter how creative I think both you and Stefan are with pithy derogatory terms. …GOPolitburo and Horse’s Math Blog make me giggle)
A) Rossi is Governor-Elect.
B) Locke has to be itchy and wants to hand the mansion keys to somebody and go on vacation.
C) I hope somebody can find documented proof if there are shenanigans going on.
D) King County is negligent to have not gotten it’s act together sooner and loses credibility and public support every time something new pops up.
E) King County canvassing board holds a lot of authority and has two D’s to one R.
F) I’m not a blinded-by-the-right Rossifarian wingnut, but an absolute supporter who believes will prevail and will be sworn in as our next Governor.
The consensus – I hate that word, but it’s appropiate – seems that the 561 should be counted. So count them.
Comment by Goldy— 12/15/04 @ 11:59 am
I have mixed feelings about it. On 710 KIRO NOW, the King County Council wants an emergency meeting…
On one hand, I’m for enfranchising all legal votes.
But I forsee more antics… between more court action and potential legislative action. That’s why I think Gregoire should have pulled us from the brink. I’ll stop here.
Robin,
If you go search the P-I, and the Times, and do a search about past King County elections and the overly major fuck-ups that happened every election in the county, you’ll see the miracle that Mr. Logan has actually done since coming on staff.
It isn’t realistic to expect Logan to remake a rowboat without a bottom into a luxury cruise liner without a single leak in the short time that he’s been on staff in King County.
The old elections directors have been replaced, for good reason. Logan is a former staff member of Republican Sam Reed who comes with impeccable credentials and bi-partisan respect and support.
I think he’s doing a pretty damn good job, all things considered.
I totally agree with your position, Goldy. I am disgusted and pissed that Chris “Cheney” Vance is not only continuing his BS PR campaign about the Dems “stealing” this election, but that the weak-kneed media is not calling him on it. As far as I am concerned, if Wahington Republicans are handing over their sensibility to an attack dog like Vance, then I am through with giving any respect to even so-called moderate Republicans like Dan Evans! And, once again, Sam Reed has got to go! His partisanship has really revealed itself during this crucial time when the whole state needed him to really be the Non Partisan leader he promised the voters he was.
Comment by Ian— 12/15/04 @ 12:22 pm
I prefer Vaninator…
Vance is currently blathering on KING- the list they were given earlier of problem absentees did not include Larry Philips… :(
Yeah, 710’s now reporting the possibility of another 50 ballots found. Perhaps Logan looked under his desk! The mess is happening in real time under his watch.
Does anyone understand what a chain of custody or inventory control system is? What a flippin joke.
Larry Phillips started this new batch of uncounted votes with his oh so noble and oh so self-righteous plea that he found out his vote wasn’t counted because he just wanted to check because his voting record is important to him for re-election. Does anyone really believe this????? Who tipped him off? Let’s carefully scrutinize his signature and the postmark on his ballot!!????
On the Sec of State website, it appears he has 2 signature cards on file…one active and a more current one cancelled. Take a look at those 2 signatures. They appear to be quite different. His L’s are totally different.
Why wouldn’t Phillips just say someone tipped him off on this?
On how can the Sec of State have a signature card and not King County?? The State gets it from the County??????????
SMELLY!!
I don’t think the Republicans are entirely PR on this “fraud” nonsense. It’s another illustration of how far removed from reality that party has gone. You could call if the “paranoid psychotic” party often
Josef—
You were the 1st one to point a finger at Dean Logan. I disagreed and have given him every benefit of the doubt. No More!! He appears to be another pawn in the KingCo machine.
Do you know why he so desperately wants these 592 ballots counted ASAP????? So they can get co-mingled with the other 900,000 King Co. votes and you will never be able to identify them!!!!!
Why not wait and count them last????? Because he wants them co-mingled!!!
A lot of blood has been spilled for our right to vote and to think of the careless, haphazard manner those votes have been treated is truly shameful.
Cynical – There is no “King County Machine.” There is no conspiracy. There is no fraud. You have no proof. You have unfounded accusations, which don’t count as evidence. The plural of anecdote is not “data”.
You’re just afraid that Rossi will lose.
King County’s the largest county. It makes sense that it would have more problems (both by number and %) than other counties. All I see is a lot of Republican teeth-gnashing, wailing, pissing and moaning. No evidence.
So, until they put up some real, verifiable evidence (not speculation, not just accusations in a press conference/release), their worries are their worries.
Democrats – be confident. We’re using all avenues available to us under the law. Legal votes are being found and counted during this hand recount. If Gregoire wins, she’s the legitimate victor. If Rossi wins, he’s the legitimate victor. Either way, the Republicans are “chicken littles” that we just need to learn to ignore.
Cricket—
Nice try to deflect…no sale!!
1) Do you believe Phillips found this oversight by himself and wasn’t tipped off?
2) Look at his 2 signature cards?
3) How does the Secretary of State have his signature cards and King County doesn’t…when the State gets it from the County?
4) Why does Dean Logan want these 592 counted immediately? Why can’t they be counted last?? What happens to those ballots once counted??
And Cricket—nice try trying to minimize all these King County errors…but no sale.
It’s time to bring in Auditors from other County’s to provide oversight on this….I believe the Canvassing Board could do this if they wanted. And why not???
Keep trying to minimize and deflect attention away from obvious questions Cricket.
Nice try at misdirection Cynical. Still not offering anything in the way of proof. Your tactics are the same on every thread – Throw out accusations, hide behind some questions and then attempt to shift the burden of proof onto those defending the innocent.
So I throw it back to you. Prove something fraudulent is going on and then we’ll listen to you. Your worries are not evidence and you’ve never backed up a single accusation you’ve thrown out.
Comment by Mr. Cynical— 12/15/04 @ 12:56 pm
A-men. The MINUTE “Governor Dean” Logan refused to do what’s right and secure the blank ballots, that set off me shortly after that set off the Vaninator. Logan must go, new election must be called and we need to make up some more rules as we travel down the twilight zone…
I was for a hand recount until I was told by SecState Reed, “Governor Dean” Logan and others of the inaccuracy and frankly because I began to accept the inevitability of judicial intervention. Now, I think we need to examine the 567 original problem ballots and then destroy all others. Enough’s enough, folks.
The line has to be drawn. Either new election, Gregoire concession, or further judicial intervention. One of the 3. Pick one and live with it, my Gregocrat friends. We are in the twilight zone, period.
Cynical- as I saw the first news reports, Phillips had gotten a list of votes not accepted for his councilmanic district, and in going through it found himself listed.
And it wasn’t that King County didn’t have his signature card- his signature had not been scanned into the computer… The point is that the worker should have then checked the original card.
And Cynical- just where on the Secretary of State’s website are you finding voter registration cards?
Acute correction: All others being all ballots that cannot be verified as valid, doubly so until Gregocrats can accept the possibility – I say again possibility of voter fraud.
I just hope King County Council steps into this in a manner that is appropiate.
“Prove something fraudulent is going on and then we’ll listen to you”
Comment by jcricket— 12/15/04 @ 1:27 pm
All I ask is that you accept the possibility at this point…
Well, Cynical- you have the story about how Larry found out his vote hadn’t been counted all wrong…
You are claiming access to voter registration cards online- I’m calling you on that one, too…
At this point your credibility is zero.
Comment by Jim King— 12/15/04 @ 1:36 pm
Well, I don’t really subscribe to Mr. Cynical-dy anyway.
Josef – I’ve said this on other threads – nothing’s impossible. So, yeah, I have always accepted the possibility that there’s voter fraud. There’s the possibility of Republican voter fraud during this election too, unless you’re so blind as to think your side is perfectly ethical. I don’t hear anyone on your side talking about that, of course. And since you can’t prove a negative (i.e. definitely prove 100% there’s no voter fraud), the burden of proof (i.e. there is fraud) is on you (the person making the accusation). Republican suspicions are not equal to fact. The rhetoric about “fairness” or “legitimacy” is a clever screen. Always has been, always will be. It reminds me of the complaints about the “liberal media”, despite massive debunking of that myth.
No amount of Republican wailing and speculation will make me believe there’s fraud. Good, solid, hard evidence would. The papers here do a pretty good job of investigative reporting (especially the Times) and besides Chris Vance and his cronies, no one’s talking about fraud.
What I see is how our mismash of voting technology and processes lead to legitimate votes being lost unless we pay meticulous attention (like we are now). But the evidence I have seen points away from voter fraud, but accidental exclusion of legitimate ballots. And
So add it all together and it basically comes down to a lack of evidence showing fraud, evidence showing accidental exclusion and the burden of proof issue vs. your distrust and speculation. You’re not asking me to just accept the possibility (well, maybe you are, but Cynical isn’t), you’re asking me to accept that speculation of fraud is enough to call the hand recount results into question, and I do not agree with that premise.
I don’t think anything fraudulent is going on. With that said, the head bean counters need to be replaced NOW. They have failed to secure and count legitimate ballots. These are somebody’s vote dropped behind the machine. Perhaps someone brought in from the outside to oversee. The credibility of the next governor to govern is at stake.
And Josef – I don’t accept your framing of the three options. You only have one option: Accept the decision of the King (and other) County canvassing boards to use their discretion to accept these improperly excluded ballots. Then accept the results of a meticulously conducted and observed hand recount, as per the law. If Gregoire wins, even by one vote, she’s the governer. If Rossi wins, even by one vote, he’s the governer.
We’re not in the twilight zone. We’re in a zone where you’re facing the uncomfortable possibility that Rossi will lose. If Republicans found 500 votes in Snohomish county, they’d make their argument those should be included to, and I’d support you in that.
Just FYI – I don’t put you in the same camp as Cynical. He (and Angry Voter and Brent) are pretty much the worst of the lot here.
Whatcom county in:
Newly minted ballots in Whatcom county give Dino an exta 6 votes overall on his lead.
Is Thurston in yet?
Republicans would be excited about finding 500 ballots in any county because of the question of their source and chain of custody. Snohomish was close to a 50/50 county on the D/R split. You think Democrats would freak out if 500 ballots suddenly showed up in Adams county? You bet! One being it’s a 68% R county and the second because there are only about 5,000 in the whole county. As a Republican I’m finding the fact that ballots are being found in the biggest D county disconcerting. I hope the canvassing board requirequires a proven chain of custody on these suckers.
a) I accept the possibility that rogue GOP and Dinocrats are also pulling games
b) I concur with Comment by Robin— 12/15/04 @ 1:55 pm
c) Jcricket should recognize that by her option, there will be litigation…
Josef
I think there are outsiders taking a close look at everything being done. Republicans, Democrats, election workers, the media, etc. That’s why I have faith that every new discovery isn’t some nefarious plot to manufacter new votes, but instead highlights how the desire for a quick vote count coupled with the mismash of voting methods leads to legitimate votes regularly being misplaced, tossed and/or rejected.
As for the possibility of Republican litigation if Gregoire is elected, I say bring it on. I understand the purpose of the courts and am not caught up in the Republican BS/spin about “activist judges” (an activist judge is one that doesn’t rule the way Republicans want)
BTW, I’m not a her.
Again – I want to be clear that I will consider whomever wins this hand recount the legitimately elected governer of WA. Even if there’s just one vote separating the winner and loser.
If, instead of accepting the hand recount, the losing side decides to litigate. I will accept the courts ruling (or lack of a ruling).
While I don’t believe any result will be “perfect”, I’m not bent out of shape by anything that’s gone on. I think, as Goldy has said, the Democrats are using the laws to their advantage, as the Republicans are also trying to do. Nothing shifty going on, and I think this is an excellent exercise both in civics (one vote can make a difference) and the need for election reform.
Without an inventory control there is no way on earth to tell what is in, what is out, what is legit and what isnt. King clearly has no idea what they have and what they dont.
Has anyone checked those affidavits that Bawling Berendt turned in? I would bet the house that some are forged…
INDEED, about time the local Dems find their John Dean Backbone—good fit—
I am a solid, rock solid Deomcrat. I have voted in Seattle for years, with many connections to poitical activism, by candidate and cause.
Have been posting my disgust about King County for two weeks, talking-phoning them, Sec of State, Simms office, and Seattle city Council, REMEMBER Seattle pay big bucks to King Co as its elections contractor.
All I got was a bunh of stupid soothing, it will be OK, you can’t be serious, oh really, and much worse. Several hangups.
Dean will go. His attempt at this new job is a dismal failure. Send him back to Olympia to scratch Reeds’ back. Reed needs to go as well……Sec of State needs to be non partisian.
I see only imcompetence, not fraud. Many voters in many counties disenfranchised, but unhappily, many thousands in King Co.
Disgusted but not with Gregoire or Democratic party…..well done– will not be silent, and glad to see Gregoire fighting like hell. Buying drinks at the giant vicorty party.
Either 69 or 96, number not coming through clearly.
“As for the possibility of Republican litigation if Gregoire is elected, I say bring it on. I understand the purpose of the courts and am not caught up in the Republican BS/spin about “activist judges” (an activist judge is one that doesn’t rule the way Republicans want)”
Mr. Jcricket… well, I concur. I think judicial activism has its place, and again: The Good Ole Police will be the police for themselves and find some judicial activists of their own if Gregoire wins. That’s what I meant by the 3 choices. I say, RUNOFF!
JOSEF – you are a Skagit vote- what the hell- both candidat loosing votes….. ballot theft? Is this an anti voter- screw em all Grinch?
I say we split the state up. Everything west of the Cascades run by Gregoire. Everything east of the Cascades run by Rossi. Sorry Skagit – we Gregorians need access to our vacation homes in BC, so you’re land is our land. :)
Or…Eastern Washington mergers with Eastern Oregon and Western Washington with Western Oregon – No more close elections anywhere! And the US gets to keep it at 50 states….
I know a lot of Rossi supporters that intended to vote but forgot…I think that it is important that their vote count as well as they also had good intentions and of coarse every vote should count….
If we split the state, the only county the dems get will be King…you guys can have it!
Nice comparison of two unequal things Chuck. Comparing people who didn’t submit a ballot to those who did. I find it hard to keep up with all the logical fallacies in your argument.
We’ve got fallacies of distraction, syllogistic errors (undistributed middle), irrelevant conclusions, slippery slope, a false analogy. Good job on illustrating how not to argue your point conclusively.
And then there are those cocky SOBs who wrote in Ron Sims… I bet they’re regretting dropping their precious votes down that hole now.
We could also debate how the Libertarian votes might have split if voters knew how close this one would be. But the point is, Chuck, that to claim the Dems are defying the will of the people implies that the will of the people was to elect Rossi governor… something we simply cannot divine.
I don’t know what to think. But I think that we need to be suspicious and skeptical of just about everything and everyone…
GO DINO – HE’LL BRING JUSTICE TO DSHS!
clown that he is…
Goldy, I don’t think the Dems as a whole are defying the will of the people. I frankly think part of a mandate is clairity of the will of the people…
Question on the libertarian angle. Does anyone think that the redneck with the old testament in one hand and an AK-47 in the other in East Clark County knew Ruth Bennett was a militant lesbian? I just dont think they have the resources to push a message. Granted, with as close as it is the three lesbian votes out of the one ad Ruth put out could swing it…
Nice comparison of two unequal things Chuck. Comparing people who didn’t submit a ballot to those who did. I find it hard to keep up with all the logical fallacies in your argument. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If you didnt submit a CORRECTLY filled out ballot, as far as I am concearned you didnt submit a ballot at all…
Jim King–
So…who gave Larry Phillips the rejected ballots in his District?? Did Phillips ask for them??…Or did someone give them to him..unsolicited? You seem to be a real player Jim..find out & report back. Let Phillips clear the air. How did he get that list with his name on it??????????????????????????
IF his signature was scanned into the Sec of State website, why wasn’t it in King County???????????????????? It’s my understanding that the Counties scan them in and then send them to the Sec of State!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Aren’t you just a little bit curious about this Jim King??????
You are such a high-roller lobbyist…are you trying to hedge your bets here…or do you really want to know.
The story appears to have some holes that need to be investigated, that’s all. And you have so many friends in high places, please nail this one down yourself before you say I have zero credibility.
Oh and I never said I had access to voter reg on Sec of State website…did I!!!! But a high-roller lobbyist like yourself can probably check this out.
Josef–
As I said, you were the 1st one to jump on Dean Logan. I resisted based on being naive and input from 2 people. Even they are now off the bandwagon. If any other County Election Official allowed this kind of incompetence to happen, they would be fired or recalled. It’s really sad to see someone so trusted created this kind of chaos. Logan should be above all this. The pressure must be immense at this point. SAD! I’m not into vast conspiracies…I’m a systems guy that understands internal controls. It’s Logan’s job to have the controls in place and monitor them. To blame these nearly 600 new votes on “low-level staff” sounds like what Gregoire did when that $18 million lawsuit deadline was missed. In that lawsuit, the accused sued and got another $800,000 of taxpayer $$$$$
Will it happen again here??
A) WHAT IN THE HELL IS A “LOW-LEVEL STAFFER” DOING WITH THIS KIND OF AUTHORITY AND NO OVERSIGHT????? IF THIS HAPPENED, THEN THE FINGET OF RESPONSIBILITY AGAIN COMES BACK TO DEAN LOGAN!! THE BUCK STOPS THERE!
B) DOES THIS “LOW-LEVEL STAFFER” HAVE A NAME? WHAT IS IT?
C) IS THIS “LOW-LEVEL STAFFER” BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THIS “ERROR”? IF SO, WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES?
I expect we will see a “circle the wagons” exercise to preclude any accountability or consequences. Hell, this “low-level staffer” will probably get free counseling (free at our expense!) and some additional compensation for being made to feel bad!
Comment by Mr. Cynical— 12/15/04 @ 4:58 pm
I concur with this particular view. We need accountability. Let Rossi win!
Or put differently (and more civilly): When will we look into what is actually going on so in the event Gregoire wins, we have a genuinely transparent reason how she won?
LOL, our dear friend at unsoundpolitics is flipping out. He now starts blocking people that he does not agree with. tried to post today and : Your comment submission failed for the following reasons:
You are not allowed to post comments. Kevin S(TalinZ) posted My main issue with Canadia is their lack of cooperation with the Iraq war. They think this will exempt them from terrorism somehow, apparently having forgotten that the Islamists are still mad at them for helping us in Afghanistan. They should hope that they won’t need our help anytime soon. Hey man open your eyes. You must be mad at 90% of the entire world. Big Tough GWB wanted to finish daddy’s lost war no more no less. and I am sure he went there believeing there were WMD because daddy’s helpers kept assuring him that WE sold them to Saddam. Get a grip on life dweeb. We were wrong going to Iraq the way we did, without a mandate. We should have relentlessly pursued Bin Ladden. And with our covert cronies I am sure there were/are 100’s of ways to get rid of a man like Hussein without destroying the USA’s image to the free world. Thank you Goldy for keeping your site open to all.
Really… (un)Sound Politics blocked your comments? And it wasn’t just their profanity filter? (I constantly get blocked when I try to use the word “pissed”.) You weren’t trying to sell Viagra, were you?
If so, that’s really sad.
No Goldy, they just completely blocked my machine. I wrote and email to Stefan but in his mood at present I do not expect a reply. Best of luck to all of us, the Blues, the Reds and those in between
Cynical- you claimed(in posts #21 “On the Sec of State website, it appears he has 2 signature cards on file…one active and a more current one cancelled. Take a look at those 2 signatures. They appear to be quite different. His L’s are totally different.” and #27-“Look at his 2 signature cards?”)- that you had seen Larry Phillips signatures online on the Secretary of State’s website- now you claim (post #60- “Oh and I never said I had access to voter reg on Sec of State website…did I!!!!”) that you didn’t claim that.
Cynical- look at your own words- you are throwing nothing but bullshit.
So you admit you lied in the first two posts- you didn’t see Larry Phillips registration card or cards- you don’t know what you were claiming- you have NO credibility.
And Cynical- it ain’t my job to waste my time researching your paranoid fantasies…
And finally Cynical- with all this mess under Ron Sims- why do the members of your beloved BIAW so actively support Ron Sims…
Comment by Jim King— 12/15/04 @ 10:59 pm
Yeah, well I have a new name for him: Resident Conspiracy Theorist. Once in a long while, he puts up a good idea… but most of it is beyond what my Marummy would dare.
It is frustrating when people put up bad information. I noted on the next thread that he is NOW saying he was TOLD that Phillips has two signatures on the SOS site, etc., but I still cannot reconcile with his dare to compare the “l”s…
And if somebody is accessing the confidential information on the SOS internal site, and spreading that info, they need to be fired. That is no different than any other government employee with computer access looking up and publicizing private information.
I think we now have the crime Cynical has been looking for evidence to prove. I doubt he will turn his source in…
So… if Ms. Gregoire eventually wins the final recount with a marin of, say, 42 votes, is is still a “tie”?
Yes, in my opinion, it is still a statistical tie. But it would be a legal victory. Fair or not, the statute says that the only count that matters is the last one.
…