Pierce County Superior Court has issued a temporary restraining order preventing King County from counting the 573 (723?) erroneously rejected absentee ballots. Back to the Supremes.
I will restrain from editorializing for the moment… I don’t want to sound like the paranoid loons on the right-wing blogs.
UPDATE:
I take that back… I’m only willing to show so much restraint.
First of all, I’m fairly confident that the Supreme Court will overturn this decision. But if they don’t, and Rossi wins on a technicality, then we will have seen a miscarriage of justice that transcends any paranoid fantasy perpetrated on the right-wing blogs.
Nobody is arguing that these are not legal votes from legal voters. Nobody is implying that there was any voter error. These are ballots that would have been counted the first time if election workers had done their job right.
What the court just said was “fuck you” to the voters being disenfranchised, and “fuck you” to efforts to elect a governor based on who actually got the most votes, rather than who got the most votes in counties that managed to canvass them correctly the first time around.
Gregoire could still pull ahead without these ballots, but regardless of who “wins” this election, voters should be outraged if these votes aren’t counted. I know I will be.
UPDATE, UPDATE:
Oh… and to those of you offended by my use of profanity… it’s my blog and I can curse if I want to. What… you never express emotion when things don’t go your way?
I am shocked at this ruling. I could see some GOP counts about other ballots. But to exclude legitimate ballots excluded because election official error is outrageous. Can this judge be recalled?
Councilman Larry Phillips will recall him. :-)
Larryt Phillips is in King County- can’t affect a Pierce County judge.
And in Washington, judges of courts of record are not subject to recall.
Not defending judge or ruling- just putting out the facts…
Boy, oh boy…. expecting court to protect voters is just too much for justice in America. Yet they make it sound like voters matter.
Even in the KING 5 poll, 63 percent said count the votes. Simple to everyone, except judges.
I think they are cowards, afraid of the politics. No R money in their next campaign.
Recalling judges is hard, but can help to defeat at her next election. Acted confused by the terms, and really listened only to the first attorney. Short attention span…..The King Co attorney in after ruling remarks pointed out these ballots were indeed in the previous count as not counted……seemingly there really is no way to correct mistakes…..despite statutes and flowery language……..very angry and sad…..no justice for voters.
Sam Reed was made a fool of…..wonder if he will become a Democrat….hope they, Sec of State and dems and King Co. file immediate appeal.
Wow. That is unbelievable. Why would Pierce County have any jurisdiction?
Hoisted on one’s own petard. If the Democrats had not filed suit, there would not have been a State Supreme Court decision, one interpretation of which the judge relied upon in her decision.
If the settled law of the state had been left settled, I doubt the GOP would have won today…
He who lives by the lawyer shall die by the lawyer…
I was joking! And I’m on Gregoire’s side. Trying to be positive in light of the bad news. :-(
Pierce had jurisdiction because, when the home county is party to a suit, the case can be taken to a neighboring county. Appearance of fairness…
Comment by Jim King— 12/17/04 @ 3:51 pm
A-men. YEAH! WE WIN! WE WIN! WE WIN! JOY UNCONTAINABLE!
And The Columbian Editorial Board supports the litigation…
AKinCA- sorry- too use to debunking the right-wing on recall. Not like CA- difficult here, impossible for judges…
No problem, Jim. And no one’s won anything yet, Josef. And for the record, CA stands for California, not Canada, in case anyone’s confused about that. :-)
Josef… you understand, your joy aside, that if Rossi wins on a technicality, when the evidence clearly shows that Gregoire had more votes, he will lack any legitimacy, and the Democratic legislature will be well within their rights to block him every step of the way.
Do you really want to win that badly?
Just read your update, Goldy, and you’re exactly right. I do hope the Supremes overturn it. What a travesty.
I’M A RETIRED COUNTY OFFICIAL DOWN IN CALIFORNIA FOR THE WINTER. I AM SURE GLAD TO NOT BE A PART OF THIS MESS. BUT I DO ENJOY WATCHING YOU ALL SPECULATE AND BEAT EACH OTHER UP.
I DECIDED TO MAKE A COUPLE CALLS ABOUT THE CLAIMS MR. CYNICAL ALEDGED REGARDING LARRY PHILLIPS VOTER REG. SIGNATURE CARD. I WAS INTEREST BECAUSE DESPITE BEING A “HORSE’S ASS” CYNICAL SEEMED TO UNDERSTAND THE TECHNICALITIES OF HOW SIGNATURES ARE TRANSMITTED FROM THE COUNTY’S TO THE SEC. OF STATE. I ALSO KNOW THAT VOTER REGISTRATION IS A PUBLIC RECORD IF THINGS LIKE DATE OF BIRTH ARE REDACTED.
SO I’M SITTING HERE IN 75 DEGREE WEATHER STARING AT 2 VOTER REGISTRATION CARDS WITH LARRY PHILLIPS NAME ON THEM (MAGNOLIA BLVD. ADDRESS). ONE WAS CANCELLED BUT THE OTHER IS CURRENTLY IN EFFECT.
YOU ALL BEAT THAT GUY UP PRETTY BADLY…BUT I’LL BE DAMNEDIF HIS ISN’T RIGHT. I’M CURIOUS TOO ABOUT HOW KING COUNTY LOST THESE SIGNATURE CARDS. KING COUNTY MUST HAVE HAD THEM AT ONE TIME OR THEY WOULDN’T BE ON THE SEC. OF STATE WEBSITE.
I’M AFRAID THIS IS YET ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF INCREDIBLY POOR CONTROLS AND MISMANAGEMENT BY MR. LOGAN. THIS, ALONG WITH ALL THE OTHER PREVIOUS ERRORS SADLY MAKES THIS ELECTION TERRIBLY FLAWED. I DOUBT THEY WILL DO A RUN=OFF. NOT SURE IT WOULD HELP. IT WILL TAKE A YEAR OR MORE FOR KING COUNTY TO CLEAN UP IT’S ACT.
Sorry Josef- I don’t like the law that was just made, although I can see the judge’s narrow reading of the law. The ruling would not have been made if there had not been a new Supreme Court Opinion…
wow, that judge must be a big time partisan hack…. it is a bit weird of her to reference the earlier Supreme Court decision considering their own reference to RCW 29A.60.210, which makes it clear that canvassing boards can review whatever ballots they want, if there was a problem. The Supreme Court just didn’t want to FORCE canvassing boards to review things, but left it up to them (again, referencing RCW 29A.60.210) to make the final calls.
partisan hack OR not so bright
Comment by Goldy— 12/17/04 @ 4:04 pm
Well, pleassssseee… the rules are the rules – you CANNOT add new ballots after certification. Sorry :-(. Go sue Dean Logan.
That said, my drumbeat of a runoff still stands.
And please respect the result. Rossi WILL win a third count, I betcha. If it’s fair.
I hope the State Supremes let the ruling stand so we can continue to hold them in high esteem…
A Rossi win WILL stop the crooks at DSHS! And clear the way for a clear Democrat victory in 2008 – you just watch!
Motorhomeman- Cynical get’s beat up because he claimed to have seen them, then claims he hadn’t, then started bullshitting all of us. Until then, I had basically respected him until then.
I wasn’t going to do the public records search, nor was I going to have a friend break the law and give me info. Quite frankly, it just wasn’t that important. We KNEW there had been a problem…
And Motorman- no one said that King County lost Phillips cards- they didn’t have his signature scaned into the CURRENT database…
F U C K Y O U
wow, you folks sure get worked up over following the rules. That Pierce County judge did the right thing and sent the dispute upstairs. There, the supreme court, will uphold her decision. Get over it. And if you do not like these decisions, wait until the court gets ahold of the over/under vote rule changes. Duh?
DavidH- you mean blonde? She’s a Gary Locke appointment. And she took a narrow view of the particular RCW- it is a defensible position from a legalistic view. But it makes for a wrong situation.
Now, the GOP will be in dutch with some Supremes for “deceit”- the SAupremes relied on the good faith of all parties that the safety valve meant what current practice indicated it meant.
But the Dems are already in dutch for having started this particular noxious legal stew…
A pox on both parties…
wow, I love this comment in the PI article from Mary Lane, republican spokesperson:
“As for those whose ballots aren’t counted, she said: ‘That is King County’s fault. We cannot be held responsible for the fact that King County made a mistake.'”
That sure is a big FU to the people on that list (most of whom voted fair and squarely), and a very ethically challenged statement. yikes.
This judge was appointed by Gary Locke in 1999.
maybe she was overcompensating for any perceived bias……
The R’s have forgotten completely that some of the voters that just got screwed voted for Rossi…..boy this sucks
Anyway, there goes the State Supremes’ holidays…
Mr. King–respectfully, let me say I do not see where Cynical ever said he saw them. Perhaps someone else had them and described them to him/her or something like that? I’m very surprised you would just brush this off as unimportant Mr. King. It is symptomatic of bigger problems. For example, if signatures disappeared from the King County database, just as easily people could have received ballots who had informed the County they had moved but that data was lost. In other words, voters who should have been deleted got ballots.
does anyone else get annoyed that all of the major news outlets have exactly the same article for this (and other) stories? It’s so sad to surf from the PI to the Times, komo….etc, and find the same word for word copy. Don’t these guys have their own reporters on a story like this, considering its importance… I mean geez, a different perspective would be nice.
I watched the thing on TV…..she seemed only intrested in the first attorney…..short attention span….and confused by the terms…..which as we all know are totally confusing. I don’t know if she realized these votes were in the ballot totals, as not counted…..
Can King County put off their certification until a ruling? Was that deadline “soft?”
Yes, soft…..but, this may turn around in several days. HIGHEST priority.
Motorhomeman- I’m not going to waste more time over Cynical- you can dig through the threads to find where he got hung. But when he asked us all to compare the “L”‘s…
Hey “Goldy” (whoever you are). How about corking the pottymouth…your otherwise sensible comments are overcome by juvenile words used by language-challenged teenyboppers, and makes us all look sophomoric. Otherwise keep up the good work..
Aside from my own partisan interests, I find the process perplexing and amazing…. I mean, I am imagining those guys (Supreme Court judges) like Batman, sitting in some darkened room, waiting for the emergency phone to ring, and then racing toward their chambers in their judgely outfits.
So now Repubs have faith in the courts, but watch their apoplexy when the Supreme’s reverse this decision. Suddenly it will all be “activist judges making new law”
Surprising result, and I’m completely with Goldy on this. If this decision stands, and Rossi wins on a technicality, the legislature will be a very hostile place for him.
Do you think this is another half a day hearing, or something more complex?
Spokane reported. Totals now +561 +569 (Rossi +50 overall).
oh god, activist judges, the siren call of the right wing indeologues. You’re right, I can already hear that one coming.
Spokane is very good news for Gregoire. Totally conservative voters, small gain……..may not need those ballots for Gregoire win, but the voters should all sue in a massive civil case.
Can judges be sued?
Spokane County in, Rossi adds 7 to his margin, now up 50…
No, judges cannot be sued in their official capacity, for official acts…
So, the only thing standing in the way (presumably) from Gregoire in the gov’s mansion is the Supreme Court, or some awfully strange King County total. And like Goldy said, she could go over the top without the extra votes (which shouldn’t make anyone any less outraged).
Comment by DavidH— 12/17/04 @ 4:56 pm
Not exactly. And if Spokane County can add some more votes to Rossi, we can be hopeful.
This just in from SOUND POLITICS:
Spokane County just reported.
A net gain of +7 for Rossi, leaving him with a total +8 gain in the recounted counties to a net lead of 154,759.
Gregoire won King County in the machine recount with a lead of 154,709.
She would need to increase her lead in King County by 50 votes in order to win.
+50 votes (even without the 573 + 150 + 22) is well within the realm of possibility. Too close to call.
To anyone one gloating over the judge’s decision to exclude these votes, I will get some special joy next time your insurance company denies your claim because they lose on of the forms you submitted.
Well, at least the Snark can do simple math…
Good. I’d like to see Gregoire gain 100 or so to lead by 50 just to be o the safe side. :-)
Now look for the Secretary of State to possibly change his position and retrack on his position he had last week before the Supreme Court. Will he be able to continue to maintain that canvassing boards can amend their results.
The brief of the Democrats pointedly show that several other counties in Washington “found” and added votes as well which benefitted Rossi. Can the courts really keep out some found votes and not others?
It’s just too hard to predict. Looking at the larger counties and the margin in favor of Gregoire within King, her gaining 50 votes seems perfectly reasonable. But the margin of error is so small, there’s basically no telling what’s going on. And with those ballots up in the air right now, I wouldn’t be holding my breath for the immediate future.
Bruce, I understand your discomfort, but since Blog #1 I have always reserved the right to use profanity if felt it was the best way to express my point.
Mr. Goldstein, Pierce County court didn’t tell anybody to fuck off. He told King County election officials “shame on you” for being dolts. Yes, I’m an R. The people should be pissed off at King County elections officials for their shoddy work to sure. And, unlike some of my extreme right-wing brethren I don’t subscribe to that whole activist judge crap. The question absolutely should be appealed within all recourse of the law. I think most moderate R’s and D’s heard about the found votes in King county and would expect a ruling from at least appellate if not the Supreme Court.
I also have no doubt this whole governor thing is eating at all of us in the holiday season. Uncertainty is cancerous.
Comment by jcricket— 12/17/04 @ 5:03 pm
“I will get some special joy next time your insurance company denies your claim because they lose on of the forms you submitted.”
And they don’t have a legal timeline to help prevent fraud…
gotta love R’s position on voters who did everything right and got screwed in the first counts – government messed you over, and we’ll go to extremes to make sure you stay messed over. Wonderful how conservatives are standing up for individual rights.
to quote one of the more knowledgeable posters:
“If the Democrats had not filed suit, there would not have been a State Supreme Court decision, one interpretation of which the judge relied upon in her decision.
If the settled law of the state had been left settled, I doubt the GOP would have won today…
He who lives by the lawyer shall die by the lawyer…”
Gregoire and the flaming demos should never have called for this hand recount. It was so predictable that it would degenerate into this type of BS. She deserves to lose becsuse it was her choice whether or not to put us all through this wringer and she decided “What the heck, who cares if lawyers end up controlling the outcome, our state is in turmoil for who knows how long, peoples trust in govt will plummet further, and the majority will not trust the outcome, let’s go for it.” What a joke of a governor-wannabee.
She did the state a disservice by calling for this recount, because the end result (which continues to get ugler by the day) was predictable and she made that choice.
Zip- with all due respect, it is the unleashing of the doglawyers of war to which I object, not the manual recount…
Need I say it again, In order to have a fair and orderly process, and a legitimate outcome, before recounts we must implement Henry VI Part 2, Act IV Scene ii…
We didn’t do that, and Santa is bringing half the state of Wyoming to us for our Christmas stockings…
Jim, I previously admitted I have had problems seeing thru my own partisan haze lately, but on this position there is no partisanship. By calling for the hand recount, there was no other more probable outcome than unleashing of the lawyers and the resulting hurt to our state. demos, repubs, everybody all hate this and a portion of them will lash out at govt with Eymans next initiative. She had to have known this because it was so obvious. She called for it anyway. Unlike Nixon in 1962 (oops).
And if the positions were reversed and Rossi had called for the hand recount, I and many repubs would be just as mad at him. Because the result of that demand for a count is a major hurt on the ability of this state govt to get anything done for the next four years, or more if Eyman capitalizes on it.
Zip would be mad at either candidate calling for the hand recount, I would be mad at neither. State law allows for it and this is exactly the circumstance for which it was out in place. Despite common rants against lawyers, I’d rather have them duking it out and a Supreme Court using reasoning to decide important questions involving individual rights than to find out after the show that bureaucrats muffed it and there’s nothing to be done about the person with the fewer legally cast votes holding power. A tough as it is the process is working, mistakes are getting ironed out and we’re getting closer to the truth about the election. The greater threat to the state is hysteria about the process taking its course, which the R’s have been fanning in every possible way. By allowing his party to go to court to change the election rules and deny legitimately cast votes (what ever happened to “count all legal votes”?) Rossi is now losing whatever reservoir of credibility he’d built up. He should’ve lived up to his rhetoric & overruled that lawsuit. After doing that his future political career would’ve been untouchable even though he loses this one in the short term
“…mistakes are getting ironed out and we’re getting closer to the truth about the election.”
Oh really? Geting closer to the truth by finding more ballots?
the only truth after the lawsuits are wrapped up will be the judge’s decision and a skeptical public. That is why the people who hold a grudge (like me) will blame Gregoire for this state’s inability to move the next four years no matter who is governor.
But Rudy- where would we be if no lawyers had been unleashed in this manual recount? We would have been working by the generally accepted, well-established rules- and the 573 and 150 would now be in the process of being verified and counted. The 22 would be a crapshoot. And you think where we are at, thanks to the lawyers, is better?
um, yes, closer to the truth about who got more votes, which is the way we choose our elected officials, by finding more ballots that were legitimately cast by voters following the rules. There will be a lot of people who hold a grudge, yes, but a lot who look at it more than a judge’s decision and see that at a basic level the votes were counted and the one who got more won. Either person will have a tough time leading, cuz thats the tough reality when an electorate is split. And if what you really want is for the state to move, isn’t that more likely when one party has the responsibility to govern and the accountability that comes with it?
Jim–
I took your advice and went back thru the threads and quite frankly cannot see what you are talking about. I don’t see that Mr. Cynical hung himself at all. Maybe you want him to but I don’t see it.
I’m looking at the 2 Larry Phillips voter reg signatures and Mr. Cynical is absolutely correct. The L’s are entirely different. Cynical didn’t have to actually see these cards to know that. Someone else could have told him/her.
All that aside, Cynicals point has been consistently that Dean Logan is completely out of control and mismanaged. As he/her points out, Mr. Phillips is the focal point of these additional ballots because his signature is not in the KingCo database. Yet it is in the Secretary of State database. I know because I’m looking at it Mr. King. How could anyone have confidence in anything Mr. Logan has supervised?
Mr. King wasn’t Mr. Logan previously a Labor Council employee before going to Kitsap County and then King County? As a former local elected official, I know more than you or Mr. Cynical combined. Defending a former Labor Council employee who is now an Election Supervisor of King County seems very cavalier Mr. King. As I go back thru the “threads”, you Mr. King seem to be for Rossi but a defender of the Democrats too. I guess that’s what a contract lobbyist does sadly. My experience with contract lobbyists is that they horse-trade and play people against each other like you appear to be doing. Just an observation Mr. King. Frankly, I’ve never heard of you. And I spent many years in local government and didn’t retire that long ago.
Rudy, My point is that the electorate is way beyond the “count every vote” idea because mistakes, lawsuits, rhetoric by both sides have overwhelmed this election. Gregoire knew the risk of this happening (based on Florida 2000 and common sense) and caused it to happen by demanding the recount. Taking one more shot at being the winner was a higher priority to her than seeing to it that we have a functioning govt respected by the public. That is what will cause the state to suffer and her action started the chain of events. Like I said, vice versa is as true. The public will disrespect the state govt more because she called for this recount.
Watching the mistakes and lawsuits play out has turned into entertainment meaning the public no longer considers this exercise to be “counting every vote.” So it does not really matter who wins and which votes are counted. The state still got hurt becasue Gregoire called for the recount.
Zip said “Oh really? Geting closer to the truth by finding more ballots?” The answer is absolutely. If you puny vote was not counted and the election was a close as it is I imagine you would be making as much or more noise than all the neocons put together. Get a grip on reality little one. EVERY VOTE COUNTS EQUALLY
It’s just that some are more equal than others…
We have many voters, who through no fault of theirs, have been disenfranchised. That includes those who’s ballots were screwed up by the post office; those who’s registrations were screwed up by the Department of Licensing; those who’s votes have been screwed up by King County Elections…
I would be more sympathetic to the “Count Every Vote” mantra if I had seen a real effort to count every vote. Sorry Democrats on this thread- I did not see that. In fact, I have been given a lot of reasons why we cannot correct third party mistakes. I’m sorry, but if the effort had been made, we could have scoured the state for ALL the votes that were screwed up by someone other than the voter.
We didn’t. The Republicans didn’t. The Democrats didn’t. I do not see the 573 plus 150 plus 22 as more sacred than anyone else.
In fact, of those, I think it is appropriate that the Chair of the King County Council gets screwed over by a county elections department he failed, as a councilman, to be sure got fixed. Seems appropriate.
I think the judge set bad policy, even if it is a proper reading of the law, but I blame those who tried to game the system- both gangs of thugs, er parties, are to blame. Whomever ends up winning is wounded, but I’ll tell you this-
The people of this state are mighty fed up with the political parties.
Both of them. They’ve gamed the system too long, and the people have begun to revolt. Did anyone note the initiative that passed- noe THERE’S a message to the parties.
Maybe we’d be better off if they were completely removed from the process. George Washington warned us of “factions” more interested in self promotion than the public good. Well, we’ve seen it in action.
Dean Logan was previously a Lobbyist And the Campaign Co-ordinator for the Washington State Labor Council.
How cozy..don’t you think?
Mr. Logan, while a bureaucrats bureaucrat is sadly tainted by his past affiliations. I find it troubling so many of you are so dishonest.
Comment by zip— 12/17/04 @ 7:40 pm
Are you Ralph Munro? He just said the same thing on KOMO.
Man, if you’re one of the disenfranchised: CALL YOUR LAWYER! DEMAND A RUNOFF!
Comment by Jim King— 12/17/04 @ 11:11 pm
Brilliant point. But I voted NO on 872 because I believe political parties help shape the debate with core principles…
Gotta go to work!
JK, I don’t buy the idea that just because every disenfranchisement issue ain’t going to be fixed, the people who can fix some of them shouldn’t do it. Which is the issue before King canvassing. The rules allow (or at least I understand they did allow, according to everyone including SOS) counties to correct obvious blunders that come to light. Because that’s a reasonable thing to do. I too would like every disenfranchisement reversed. But just because extraordinary efforts aren’t going to be made to do that doesn’t mean counties shouldn’t do what they can reasonably do in the time they have. No argument with you that people are sick of the parties. The initiative they passed puts a huge roadblock in front of forming new ones though.
Zip, I share the desire for moving forward, but I also can’t hold it against campaigns (who garnered millions of votes) for following the rules that are laid out. Which includes having recounts and appealing to courts to settle questions. You probably think we entered the twilight zone a while ago, but I think we’re just starting to enter it with suggestions of runoff elections, which are contemplated in the law exactly nowhere. The way we start to move forward is for the loser of the manual count to swallow hard and concede graciously (a la Gore), saying it’s time to move on. Is this what you’d advise R to do if he loses the manual?
Rudy- I don’t disagree with you about fixing what can be fixed- I’ve said I think this latest decision creates bad public policy, but it is also one possible reading of the law. Actually, even though a narrow view of the law, possibly the most correct LITERAL interpretation. We’ll see if the State Supreme Court agrees.
My two basic points at this time are
1) If the Democrats would have kept the lawyers out of the fight, King County would currently be proceeding with the processing of these votes- there would have been no new State Supreme Court decision, and the previously well-settled interpretation of state law- and the processes used for years- eould not have been unsettled.
2) Rage because SOME ballots are not being counted, but others are not even being addressed, is NOT as convincing as rage over EVERY ballot that is not being counted.
This ruling helps my guy, but I don’t feel good about it. I am not gleeful, I am not celebrating. But I do not feel so bad about it that I will accept anyone stating a Rossi win under these circumstances is illegitimate BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND CHRISTINE GREGOIRE gave up the high ground weeks ago.
I feel sorry for EVERY voter screwed up by the processes in this election, and we need to do better- we CAN do better in the future.
But the idea that if we would just process those disputed ballots we would have a legitimate election- no, I don’t accept that. Counting those ballots is not the threshhold.
The Democrats set the threshhold as being compliant with the State Supreme Court, so if we do whatever the State Supreme’s order, that is it. If they order the process to proceed as we had THOUGHT the law to be- that is legitimate. If they order a narrower view of the law, that is legitimate.
And if the Democratic Party does not like it, they brought it upon themselves. Don’t waste your time trying to convince me there are any legitimate complaints at that point. You’ll have to talk to the back of the hand, because even the hand won’t be listening…
“But the idea that if we would just process those disputed ballots we would have a legitimate election- no, I don’t accept that. Counting those ballots is not the threshhold.
The Democrats set the threshhold as being compliant with the State Supreme Court, so if we do whatever the State Supreme’s order, that is it. If they order the process to proceed as we had THOUGHT the law to be- that is legitimate. If they order a narrower view of the law, that is legitimate.”
Ok, in the first paragraph above you seem to say counting KC ballots does not give a legitimate election, but then in the 2nd you say it would if the Court sanctions it. I’ll assume your bottom line is the 2nd, and if so, we’re in agreement. D’s can’t complain if SC blocks the 723(?) and G loses, R’s can’t if the reverse happens. Whoever loses should give gracious concession and help us all move on. And, I have real doubts the R’s will do so if it comes to that point.
Rudy- sorry if I wasn’t clear- there are those out there who’s bottom line (in determining legitimacy) is counting the disputed King County ballots. I’m at the point that I am going to accept the State Supreme’s. I think that is what you are saying, too.
At least we don’t have a 5-4 Republican appointed court. My thoughts are that if a court with a Democratic majority upholds the Republican position, it is good law. And if the Court upholds the Democratic position? Well, Republicans thought it was good law when it was slam-dunkin’ the Democrats last Tuesday, so I guess it will be good law next week…
rudy, yes i would advocaye that whoever loses this count give it up. This has gone on long enough with enough egg thrown on the govt’s face. The damage has been done.
Even though a runoff will never happen, I believe it would help get the public confidence back regardless of who wins it.
The Government is embarrassed? You bet your sweet bippy they should be embarrassed. They have goofed up so many times in this election it isn’t funny. If we can’t trust them with our votes, how can we trust them with our welfare? I’m for every vote being counted if it was cast properly, and I’m for firing all government employees that are responsible for this royal fiasco! We the people should be embarrassed if voters are disenfranchised in our state just because we’re growing weary of this issue. Evidently you all are members of the younger, instant gratification, short attention span generation that can’t see justice through to the end. If we have to have a run-off election so be it. I for one would suggest that all those names printed in the paper in association with the ballots that were mistakenly not counted, sue the state for denial of their franchise.
Wow, zip – finally something we agree on :) Regardless of the outcome of the State Supreme Court ruling and regardless of who wins this hand count (with or without the 573 + 150 + 22), it should be over (for now).
I’m not saying that I’ll be happy if the Supreme’s rule against the inclusion of the improperly excluded votes, but my tolerance limit for this race will be reached. I’m not interested in a run-off or new election.
And regardless of how rare this close of a race is, I am interested in election reform. Standardize voting and vote counting methodologies in ways that increase transparency and enfranchise voters. Let’s focus on kicking the fraud and uncertainty out of the system. I don’t want to hear about phone jamming, ballot box stuffing, technicalities being used to disenfranchise voters, lost ballots, etc. It’s ridiculous.
Oh and I’ve had it about up to here with every race ending up in court. Seems like everything ends up in court. Maybe we should just do away with the legislature and go straight to the courts :)
(totally kidding).
Count every vote eh? OK let’s do just that! King County has screwed up big time. They need to STOP counting immediately and REsend ballots to all the miltary folks that were NOT able to vote because King county did not mail their ballots in a timely manner. Let every vote count! Let every deployed soldier have his say! Oh golly, gosh, gee whiz can’t have that now can we? May be a vote or 2 for Rossi from THAT bunch eh? The hypocrisy of the uber-libs in Kiev County and the formerly-great-state-now-Ukraine/banana-republic-of Washington is staggering.
Thinker, you’re on the right track, let’s all re-vote.