[NWPT48]Day 7, and I’m running out of snide headlines. I’ll be following along (when not disciplining my puppy) and updating this post with observations as they occur to me, but in case I miss anything, you can always check out the latest trial update from David Postman in The Seattle Times.
Logan’s run-on sentence
The proceedings have opened with Dean Logan on the stand. I’ve talked to Dean, and he strikes me as a dedicated, administrative wonk… but not the best communicator in the world. Expect some very long, drawn out, detailed answers.
BREAKING NEWS: Logan repeats stuff we’ve already heard! (11:29 am)
For the life of me, I just can’t think of anything to write about. There’s been absolutely no news coming out of Dean Logan’s testimony… and every answer — to both Democratic and Republican attorneys — has been delivered in the same, calm, monotone.
So instead I’ll just report on what Stefan is reporting. Permit me to paraphrase:
“Dean Logan is a liar.”
“Dean Logan has perjured himself.”
“Dean Logan lies.”
“Dean Logan is dishonest.”
“Dean Logan is a lying, dishonest perjurer.”
Yeah, and more stuff like that.
And that’s exactly my point (1:41 pm)
Dean Logan was just asked if it would be possible to count the absentee envelopes, and he said:
Yes.
So… um… if the Republicans suspect there were more ballots than voters, why didn’t the make a public records request for the envelopes?
That was it? (2:00 pm)
After months of vilifying Dean Logan as a liar and a thief… after Bob Williams of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation demanded that Logan should be put behind bars… Logan finished his half day on the stand with neither a whimper or a bang. He just calmly, wonkishly answered the questions put before them, telling us absolutely nothing new. The Rossi folk cast the wrong guy in the role of super villain.
Logan has been excused, and Democratic expert Chris Adolph is now on the stand.
Radio Days (2:37 pm)
I’ll be on the John Carlson Show again today at 3:15 pm, KVI-570, the Victoria Taft Show tonight at 7:35 pm, 860-KPAM (Portland), and the Kirby Wilbur Show tomorrow morning at 7:30 am, KVI-570.
Statistical tie (5:01 pm)
Before completing his cross-examination, GOP attorney Mark Braden got Democrat expert witness Chris Adolph to agree that from the aggregate data we could not determine which candidate got the most legal votes. Well, I could have told you that. In fact, I did, way back on 12/02/04:
Republicans scoff at Gregoire calling this election a tie, but statistically speaking, it is. This election is so far within the margin of error, that there is no practical way to accurately determine the winner.
Thus, the results of the third count
Dean Logan is cute! He is just the right height, slightly pudgy, and comes across as soft and cuddly! The kind of man who always tells the truth.
I’ve heard spinning leads to rambling…
Prissy–
No wonder you are the perpetual “woman scorned”.
You are a very bad judge of character!
If you like the Weird Al Yankovic look…you’ll love Dean Logan.
Poor communicator Goldy???
Isn’t communication a major part of an election officials job???
You can try as hard as you might to chalk this up to “poor communication skills” but I think taxpayers and voters have a right to demand those skills from a $125,000.00/yr. man in Logan’s position….don’t they?
Well , I got around SP’s “banning” for a while, but they got me banned again. Why are they afraid of free speech? Why does SP have to be an orgy of Rep. circle jerking. They never seem to get bored with their own inane antics.
Dr. Quest/Don/Alan/thatPrick et al–
We are all pretty crazy…but you are undoubtedly the HEAD LOON!
But I guess Stefan decided a guy with your many identities posting back and forth to yourself was unacceptable. I would say you did it to yourself.
And my banned post was about nuisance suits and “tort reform” and not wasting everyones precious time with frivolous lawsuits. I thought these topics were dear to the Rep. heart. Foreman reminds me of “Caveman Lawyer.”
Quest; you mean frivolous appeals of elections? Election was done till Christine raised special interet money to overturn the peoples election.
Youse guys started this…
“There is none so blind as he who will not see!” Wink Martindale
Think about THAT, Righton!
Dr. Quest–@8
“There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity”!
—Johan Wolfgang Von Goethe
You don’t need to think about this one Dr. Quest. Von Goethe must have known some sow would eventually shit in the trough and out you would crawl…a shining example of aggressive supidity!
Mr. Cynical: I’m surprised you would make such fawning reference to a Rennaissance secular humanist as huge as Goethe. I don’t think you even know who he is.
righton, this is the most ignorant thing I’ve ever seen you post: “Election was done till Christine raised special interet money to overturn the peoples election.”
The people elected Gregoire. It doesn’t matter if you won’t admit it; but Rossi never won. The only folks trying to overturn the people’s election are the Republicans.
Well,Mr. Cynical, Where’s your response? To quote Ernie Kovacs: It looks like you’ve been ” hoist by your own petard!”
Stefan is making hilarious references to the famous Jimi Hendrix/Dick Cavett interview of yore. Logan says: “But I’m still the best witness in this Chair!”
Hilarious! Priceless! Who’d have known Stefan was so hip he was even making sly reference to Owlsley.
“As to a recommendation that provisional ballots be printed in a different color than regular ballots to avoid mishandling, Logan said that didn’t happen because “it would add a layer of complexity and represent a significant change to the election process.””
So let me get this straight, printing on a different color piece of paper is too complex a move?
Goldy, if you are going to paraphrase the minnow, do it right:
“Dean Logan is fraud.”
“Dean Logan has fraud.”
“Dean Logan fraud.”
“Dean Logan is fraud.”
“Dean Logan is fraud, fraud fraud.”
Then point out that Dean Logan once, when he was in high school working at McDonalds, gave back $.01 too much in change.
Clearly fraud.
Has Logan said anything important yet?? I checked out when Hamilton asked if Logan appreciated the retired senior poll workers….what does that have to do with this??
Goethe was a German Poet born in the mid-1750’s. His works have been beautifully translated. I think almost all of his life’s works were combined in Faust 1 and 2. Interesting Dude.
Actually Goethe would have fit in very well with the Seattle LEFTIST ELITE. He was a real silver-spooner who felt “inconvenienced” by the revolution. He just wanted to be well thought of and in the “upper crust”.
He produced lots of quotable material over his 80 years.
But frankly, he represents the elitist attitudes that eminate from the “progressive” Seattle. You know, Progressive Seattle…which is so progressive it is damn near impossible to progress from Rainier Ave to Northgate in less than an hour!
“Actually Goethe would have fit in very well with the Seattle LEFTIST ELITE. He was a real silver-spooner who felt “inconvenienced†by the revolution. He just wanted to be well thought of and in the “upper crust”.
I’d say he’d fit in with us elites (and I’m pretty much scraping by just above the poverty level) becuase he’s acknowledged to be one of the greatest intellects in human history. I doubt Cynical (or his hero W) will be remembered the same way, however…
Very good,Mr.Cynical. It sounds like a 5th graders book report. It’s O.K., sometimes we all get a little out of our league.
Hey Cynical, maybe some of these lefties need to get a Dr. Bronners shower. Maybe their thoughts and words wouldn’t stink to high heaven. But wait, I covered that yesterday about them holding in their farts.
Most of these HA lefties are:
1.) As confused as a hungry baby in a topless bar.
2.) About as subtle as a flying brick
3.) As pissed as a fart in a vacuum cleaner
4.) Born on April 2; a day too late!
5.) Need to open their minds and shut their mouths, as both are empty anyway.
Wasn’t it Democrapic President Harry Truman who said: “If you can’t convince them, confuse them”? Sounds like the KCEC and Dean Logan’s gang to me. If you can’t convince 57% of the voting public that these are small errors, confuse them by saying everyone else had them too. More reasons to throw out the election then!!!
Pudster
Come on, trolls! Goldy needs your help! Can’t you think of any more bullshit allegations? Give Goldy something to write about.
Reply@21,
Oh you mean the bullshit allegations we heard from Democrats? Sure thing:
Florida! What about Florida?
America is an imperialist power!
Torture at guantanimo.
Blood for oil.
Democrats really won Ohio in 2004.
The whole voting machine conspiracy theories.
Saddam was no threat. He was a great philanthropist and treated his people extra special. Besides that, Saddam never ever had a nuclear program.
There was a man named Cynicle
who’s poetry reached a pinnicle,
But his literture is flimsy
and his comments are whimsy.
Because the truth is
Rossi lossy.
Bush had an approval rating close to 57% at one point. Now that the fear factor is gone and the reality of his disastrous policies becomes ever more apparent to all but the most Alzheimered of voters, I now see why Bush is against stem cell research. If the Alzheimers victims regain their faculties the Reps will lose what’s left of their constituency.
But Patrick:
Aren’t you this guy who is all foam and no beer? Aren’t you this guy who writes multiple individual answers when only one will do, so he gets to see his name in the blog more and raise Goldy’s numbers? Aren’t you this guy who likes to call us trolls? As I remember, trolls are cute loveable object who always have a smile on their face because we know it will get better!!! Let’s see what the Internet says. I’ll start with Americal Offline, being a member: http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
To Patrick: An Internet “troll” is a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. HorsesAsses maybe? He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people. Well I guess we’ll have to come up with another name for Donnageddon and Marilyn!!! Darn!!!
Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for their bizarre game. For some reason, they don’t “get” that they are hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite human but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no sorrow whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the suffering they cause, the greater their ‘achievement’ (as they see it). At the moment, the relative anonymity of the net allows trolls to flourish. So Patrick, how are we hurting other people? We believe that people have their own right to chose their destiny, follow God’s laws of the land first, not have judges and strange WA State legislation dictate our lives.
Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame or compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility. This is the full definition of the HorsesAss Bloggers on the left.
One technique used by trolls to generate chaos is to pretend to be a well-liked person. On some systems there is nothing to prevent somebody from signing your name to a distasteful message. On other systems the troll may have to be a bit more wiley, perhaps by replacing one character with another. Rossisux2, and Mrs Cynical; this is you to a T!
So Patrick, U B callin us trolls?
Pudster
David, david. Ministry of truth calling.
Question: Did Rossi win first 2 counts?
Question: Did he ever have to ask for 2 counts?
Question: Did Chrissie win either of the automatic counts?
Question: Did Chrissi have the option to ask for and pay for a third, manual handcount?
Question: Would Rossi have won had she not opted to pay for the 3rd count?
answers: yes, no, no, yes, yes
@25
I think he is,
And he’s not the only one :P
And who paid for her recount? Dems, w/ NARAL, Soros, ADA, Emilies List…
Well, winning’s not everything but it sure feels better than losing to moronic Rep. trolls. This whole battle is so key because of the fact that we are showing the rest of the country how to beat you. It is abslutely inevitable that you’ve peaked and now you’re going to lose.Making it harder to vote will be offset by everyone getting rid of those rigged Diebold machines and your party is busy killing the working middle class who constitute a large part of their bedrock voting . Reps. are busy defeating themselves while crowing about how well they’re doing.
reply@29,
“Well, winning’s not everything…”
Keep consoling yourself with that one. Hey it worked for you after President Bush won reelection. So if it makes you feel better, then by all means indulge yourself.
Or allow some terrorists to blow up some buildings and then claim we need you to protect us. The sheep may not follow in the numbers you think they will.
Hey, Mr. Cynical…we pay the president upwards of 400k and he can’t read the directions on a fvcking pot pie.
How many times was Rossi certified the winner? Zero.
How many times was Gregoire certified the winner? The only time it counts.
It is a fact, because I read it in the MSM ;-), that Gregwhore got her funding for the hand count by going to the national party. Apparently the KC stronghold was only willing to mark a ballot (early & often), but not kick in additional cash. Rossi, on the other hand has had a great deal of post fraud election donations. Most liberals scream & yell, “we won, we won”, lacking all intellectual honesty, but an honest Lib (there are but a few) know we will never know who truly won this election. They will admit though, that they regret voting for that smarmy faced biotch.
I think we need a REALLY professional male escort and Rep. journalist to cover these proceedings: Jeff Gannon-Guckert! Karl Rove’s Mississippi Queen…….
In fairness, the dem’s have nothing like the fund-raising machine that is KVI :p
Aexia…a liberal who can count to one, and still be wrong.
Windie:
1.) Apparently you are not well read as to what a troll is. I tried to educate you and you can see yourself in the mirror. Do I need to give you more definitions? No that’s right, you are unconvinceable.
2.) Are you saying the Internet Senator and the Sneaker Senator have no financial draw? :( Then why are they senators? ;) They bamboozled us! :P
3.) What about the 57% when polled think Rossi won? King 5 TV last month posted the latest poll. Is it my party killing off the middle class? Don’t think so. Who just hoisted a new gas tax on the middle class? Your party. Who raises ferry fees, and other fee based taxes on all of us? Your party. Who is against performance audits that can tell us how our tax dollars are really spent? Your party.
Pudster
1) Believe me, I know damn well what a troll is, and I have to ask you, why would lefties troll a friendly forum (or blog)? It simply doesnt’ work that way.
2) I’m not them, dunno why they didnt’ help out. Kinda irrelevant tho.
3) The right has a much better PR system than the left does. Regardless of what you think of them, the Print media and the Local TV stations have to at least pretend to be fair. And theres not local left-wing radio. The rightie radio guys dont’ need to worry about that so can focus on getting their message out.
Even if you’re right about the papers et al, pure unmasked propaganda has more impact than masked, wimpy propaganda… At least amongst people stupid enough to fall for it.
“So… um… if the Republicans suspect there were more ballots than voters, why didn’t the make a public records request for the envelopes?”
Goldy, you actually have a good point there. If I was directing their strategy, I would have done exactly that. Shouldn’t have cost more than $100,000 for the copying, counting, sorting, etc.
If this also supported a 875 or so absentee ballot surplus, then the GOP would have had proof beyond a reasonable doubt of ballot stuffing.
If the absentee ballot surplus was eliminated, then that evidence would not have been there, but it would have still showed that King County Elections was screwed up royally. Not in the way to overturn an election, but definitely in the way to cause serious public concern.
Of course, simply counting opened envelopes is not enough. It is important to make sure that all of the opened envelopes were accepted, by comparing each to the existing database. If 875 properly rejected envelopes were opened by mistake, that could also account for the 875 absentee ballot surplus.
The Rossi/Republican presentation at trial indicates that they believe that admissible evidence consists of speculation, delusional musings, paranoid rantings–anything but facts. Rather than considering statutory elements in light of evidence presented at trial, they spread ideological nonsense over their conception of evidence and draw their legal conclusions. They are shameless bastards, who would rather tear down governmental institutions–the judiciary, for instance–than share power or remain a constitutional democracy. May they all go spend some time in their own personal Guantanamos, which should not be a hard gig for them as they don’t believe any torture occurs there.
Dave Ross is conservative? Yeah right. Dori Monson is conservative? Yeah right. The PI and the Times are conservative? Yeah right. Jean Enerson is a conservative King 5? Yeah Right. Ken Schram is a conservative on Komo 4? Yeah right. That’s why KVI florishes, because all else is leftist!
Fine I am troll-like but I ain’t no troll.
Richard, didn’t someone on their side today, (Logan) say some envelopes were lost? So if I copied all the envelopes will I find them all?
See patrick, multiple answers in only ONE reply. Try it sometime.
Pudster
Hey Puddybutt @ 42,
Go fuck yourself. You don’t set the standards around here on how people comment. Got it?
righton @ 26: absolutely correct. Rossi would have won if Gregoire hadn’t insisted on (and raised the money to pay for) a hand recount. But Rossi DIDN’T win. Republicans can’t deal with that and are pulling out all the stops to overturn the people’s election.
Nevertheless, after all the noise they made, they can’t even produce any decent evidence in court. They’re just wailing and insinuating and spinning their way to defeat.
@42
first of all, I hope you’re not implying that *I’m* patrick… last I checked we weren’t even the same gender.
Also, read what I said again. I granted you the supposition that all the other media were left-leaning, because it doesn’t matter. I don’t agree of course, but I was willing to let it go.
The point was: Outright right propaganda will be more effective than veiled left propaganda if people are too dumb to tell the difference.
DJ: Thank you for expressing yourself as the only way you know, swearing. Golly, I touched a dj nerve? Is this your universe of thought? Do I hear a twangggggg? DJ, you seem as bent as a butchers hook. DJ you proved my point about your comments, about as interesting as watching paint dry. Waaaaahhhh, you need a feeding. Find that topless bar.
Conversation between dj and a Republican woman:
DJ: Is this seat empty?
Woman: Yes, and this one will be too, if you sit down.
Pudster
King County, Milwaukee, Harare Zimbabwe, Philly, and Chicago………Now, even in Canada commie lib Democrats cheat. Are all Democrat Voter fraud felons???? Read on!!!!!!! Ottawa – Ottawa reverberated this week with allegations that Canada’s minority Liberal government tried to bribe an opposition politician to defect, as it came within a whisker of losing a confidence vote in Parliament. Prime Minister Martin denies any wrongdoing and the government argues that secret recordings of conversations submitted by Conservative Member of Parliament Gurmant Grewal have been doctored or translated inaccurately from Punjabi.
I don’t have time
to write a rhyme
so quit you’re crying, trolls
the Republicans are lying, and
it’s either gas tax or bridge tolls.
GOLDY—
Hopefully I can stop laughing long enough to type this.
Once again…you are doing an ok job on Carlson and then you proceed to somehow STEP ON YOUR NEEDLEDICK!
You are simply too predictable and telegraph your punches so slowly that you will never win a battle of wits with Stefan. You stick out a wimpy little left jab today and Carlson comes over the top with a right hand RIGHT ON YOUR BUTTON!
In case you missed it…
Goldy, like the broken record he is, states for the umpteenth time that it’s somehow OK for Nick Handy to not be fair and unbiased BECAUSE THE SECRETARY OF STATE IS NAMED IN THE ELECTION CONTEST LAWSUIT. Goldy even tees it up perfectly by saying, “Why should the Secretary of State’s Office be unbiased in this lawsuit”?
To which Carlson replies, “For one reason and one reason only David, BECAUSE THEY SAID THEY WOULD!”
Wham…Goldstein is dropped again like a fucking ton of bricks.
He barely staggers to his feet at the count of 9!
Will Goldy stick his chin out one more time tomorrow on Carlson’s Show????
Tune In!!!
Remember Goldy, the 3 knockdown rule is in effect. One more time on your ass and you are outta there!!!
Looks like Rossi is losing his last stand:
Republicans want illegal votes by felons and others in any given precinct apportioned between Rossi and Gregoire by the same percentage as the total vote in that precinct.
“This method has no pedigree, no claim to accuracy,” Adolph said.
Adolph says the Republican’s expert report is unreliable because information appeared to be collected mostly from parts of the state that supported Gregoire.
“This strikes me as clear circumstantial evidence of systematic sampling,” he said. That might not have been intentional, but “it does suggest that any inferences from the petitioners data alone will be biased because of their methods.”
After more than four months of pretrial preparation, the lawsuit over Gov. Christine Gregoire’s election has headed into court. Seattle Times chief political reporter David Postman is covering the trial and will file periodic updates from the Wenatchee auditorium that’s doubling as a courtroom.
But he said he used the Republican model to apportion illegal votes alleged by both Democrats and Republicans and says there is “approximately zero chance” that the outcome of the election would change.
The Pud says “…Is it my party killing off the middle class? Don’t think so. Who just hoisted a new gas tax on the middle class? Your party. Who raises ferry fees, and other fee based taxes on all of us? Your party.””
Well, let’s see – the rising cost of health insurance is doing a way bigger job on the middle class than the proposed gas tax (which, while I too oppose it, still costs the middle class a hell of a lot less than the 25% increase in the cost of gas itself – largely due to Republican policies and that almost exclusively benefits W’s buddies in the oil business), as is the decline in real wages and benefits (and the fact that the Rethugs would happily relieve private companies of their obligations to pay out pensions even as they try to privatize Social Security).
Ferry fees rose in response to Eyman’s car tab initiative, which substantially reduced state money for the ferry system (which I think merits some subsidy as part of the state highway system, as it happens).
Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black, to me.
Keep pullin that pud, dude.
To back up dj @ 43
Do please, go fuck yourself, Pudster/Puddybuddy! Your actions here explaining what a troll is or isn’t exemplifies you AS A TROLL!! You have no right dictating who can say what how often, when you dont admin this blog.
Erik @ 48–
Postman also said he applied the R’s proportional reduction model PRESUMING all of the R and all of the D illegal votes were illegal votes. Not likely since the Dems started this exercise months after the R’s. So I disagree that the chances are ZERO. However it is no slamdunk either way. It will reduce the marin to some extent. How much?? We’ll see I think!
dj–
You are mighty grumpy and mean today. Did you wake up on the wrong side of your crib today after your nappy-nap?? I’m teasing you dj. It’s not like you to weigh in on the bullshit. Watsup?
The one thing I’ve missed in all the attorneys’ speculations about how felons would’ve voted is that a high proportion of felons (at least those I’ve met) are not simply male, but are sexist to the nth degree; given the choice of a woman in leadership or a man, those I remember would choose a man every time.
C’mon Goldy–
Post my evaluation of your subpar performance on Carlson.
At least I care enough to listen!
Comment on 50
If the 3 knockdown rule applies, how come Rossi is still around after getting knocked on his ass every fucking day?
Dori Monson is conservative? Yeah right.
He’s a Republican who the Republican party attempted to recruit to run for Congress. What more do you want?
The Republican Party, which Pudster holds up as the defenders of the middle class, thinks a $5.15 minimum wage is just fine as it is but would prefer no minimum wage, no unions, and no health benefits. Are we redefining “middle class?” Whether you are middle class depends on the meaning of what “are” is.*
(* “are” is the plural of “is” which is how they talk, as in “I were a high school dropout and now I are a real estate millionaire!”)
Hey lefties; another stellar KC employee is on the stand.
If you’d trained all year for an election, and delivered this pile of garbage; wouldn’t you be embarrased? I mean imagine practicing all year for 1 game, then shooting an air ball?
How can a liberal on a liberal blog be a “troll?” Or do they think they’ve taken over this blog and now its theirs?
“If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong!”
Just wondering if TODAY is the day that the GOP will prove ballot stuffing. They are going to prove that right? Right?
Man, Sanchez is going to be fun on cross exam; how’d ya;ll bet on her?
she’s digging a deep hole
Republicans are flailing…they need a killer surprise somewhere soon…
reply@48,
Priscilla you’re lame,
If that’s your real name,
Do you live in a hole?
Because the new Narrows Bridge already has tolls,
it’s the viaduct that is stuck,
because Seattle wants to pass the buck,
To the rest of the state,
So the rich folk won’t be late,
Gettinng back to their west side estate!
Sometime this baseball season, when the Mariners are 20 games back, and there’s only about 5-6 weeks left in the season, and they’ve already traded away a few good players to contenders, I’m going to walk into a sports bar and see a guy glued to the game. This guy is going to be proudly cheering on the M’s and talking about how they’re certainly going to win the World Series and that it’s all those people who’ve counted them out were fools. And at that moment, I’ll know that I’ve met Righton.
Uh, scratch that. I just remembered that Righton’s mom doesn’t let him go out to the bar anymore…
Hey Patick, nice trick,
Doing your Democrat propaganda man schtick.
Does it pay well being a schill,
for a party that thwarts the good people’s will?
Your fuse is quite short,
As evident by your angry retort,
But your case is lost in good Judge Bridges court.
Your elections broad just said its a long election day. Wow. 1 14 hr day each election year, rest of year to loaf
Cut little troll PuddleyBuddley is often quoting Dr. Desmond Tutu:
“Don’t raise your voice, improve your argument.†When the facts state otherwise, they arm their small minds with vitriol and nasty name calling. “
And yet he has sadly never taking his own advice:
@ 20 “Most of these HA lefties are:
1.) As confused as a hungry baby in a topless bar.
2.) About as subtle as a flying brick
3.) As pissed as a fart in a vacuum cleaner
4.) Born on April 2; a day too late!
5.) Need to open their minds and shut their mouths, as both are empty anyway. “
@ 46 “DJ, you seem as bent as a butchers hook. DJ you proved my point about your comments, about as interesting as watching paint dry. Waaaaahhhh, you need a feeding. Find that topless bar. “
PuddyBuddy, you are so cute playing the hypocritical name calling troll. I really love your act! You are kind of a cross of Lenny Bruce and Carrot Top.
Keep up the great work!
I can do bad hemingway too.
Outside the windows it was raining. The rain was good. It ws good because it helped settle the dust. In the roads. He had waited a long time for the rain. In the summer when the hot wether came the roads would be dusty because of the dust in the roads. All the roads were dirt, and all the dirt roads went to Pullman. They had no paved roads in that part of the country because Tim Eyman is against paved roads. The country around there was flat, as flat as Mary Lane’s chest. And the rain kept falling.
She’s saying she has dumb workers under her
The gas tax goes up,
No problem they say,
You need not drive very far in a day
Besides it’s our money,
You hold in your hand,
Perhaps you thought hard work was the way,
foolish man you don’t know the Democrat way
We take your hard work and all that you’ve earned,
We give to interests of ours that were spurned,
That they work or make effort is not the concern,
Neither is the working man who is the one to be burned.
So, lets’ see, Nicole Way fudged data in a reporting form, because she didn’t have the correct data from DIMS. The Republican attorney’s are arguing that it’s OK to fundge the data with respect to proportional deduction, because there’s no way to come up with the data that’s required by the science.
I suppose there’s some twisted form of modal logic by which one of those warrants the label “fraud” while the other ought to be considered a compelling legal argument for setting aside the results of an election, but it’s not any form of logic I recognize.
oh boy; 9am Thursday, sweet Linda going get some tough questions.
You mean Logan and Sanchez were the hand picked star witnesses? No brains in the back to trot out? You mean the best and brightest…wowo
Patrick@58
Before the minimum wage went soaring in this state, a person on minimum wage could treat his/ her family to a Whopper at BK for 99 cents…now it is $2.29. Great aint it?
wrongoff at @26:
Question: Did Rossi win first 2 counts?
Rossi led after the first two counts. The process, as contemplated in Washington electoral law, wasn’t yet complete.
Question: Did he ever have to ask for 2 counts?
No, of course not. That’s that Washington electoral law requires.
Question: Did Chrissie win either of the automatic counts?
Redundant.
Question: Did Chrissi have the option to ask for and pay for a third, manual handcount?
Yes, that’s what Washington electoral law permits.
Question: Would Rossi have won had she not opted to pay for the 3rd count?
Yes. But the Democrats did put up a deposit (refunded to them once the final result was certified) to carry out a hand recount, as permitted under Washington electoral law. And that hand count — the most accurate and comprehensive of the three — resulted in a 129-vote margin for Governor Gregoire, the certified winner of the gubernatorial election of 2004.
answers: yes, no, no, yes, yes
Except for your misstatement in #1, and the redundancy of #3, you did pretty well on your own pop quiz.
Goldy said: “I’ve talked to Dean, and he strikes me as a dedicated, administrative wonk… but not the best communicator in the world.“
Main Entry: un·der·state
Pronunciation: “&n-d&r-‘stAt
Function: transitive verb
1 : to represent as less than is the case
2 : to state or present with restraint especially for effect
– un·der·state·ment /-m&nt/ noun
I’ll bet anyone $20 Logan is gone by the end of the year for being such a poor communicator.
I must be one of the few R’s around here that 1. Doesn’t believe that fraud happened, 2. Thinks we have more important things to do in this state with Governor Gregoire, 3. Thinks we’ll never truly know who actually won, but the final count went Gregoire’s way, so live with it, and 4. Thinks Logan should be canned for not getting his department in order and/or not being open enough with the County Council about the problems.
I do find it funny that the R’s are screaming FRAUD! here but Ohio in 2004 and Florida in 2000 were ok AND the D’s are screaming FRAUD! about Ohio and Florida and saying everything was ok here.
By the way, Dean Logan had the best line in the trial so far. He prefaced his response to Judge Bridges’ question about any sense of urgency with respect to fixing problems in King Co by saying, “First of all, I don’t like to use the word ‘fixing’ in the context of election procedures.”
Somebody better get ahold of Postman in a hurry. the headline at http://www.seattletimes.com says the Dem expert just testified that in his jusdgement it is impossible to determine whther or not Christine Gregoire got enough leagal votes to win.
That cannot help CG or can it?
rotflol
POSTED 4:10 PM Wednesday
Dems’ statistical expert says not possible to know if Gregoire won
The Democrats’ statistical expert testified that it is impossible to know whether Gov. Christine Gregoire actually got the most legal votes in the November election.
pbj–
I’m afraid I’ve created a rhyming monster!!
Keep up the good work!!
Rick Schaut–
You really think Logan’s line was funny???
It would have been funnier if Logan said “Fixin’??? Yup, I’m fixin’ to get my sorry ass fired!”
the headline at http://www.seattletimes.com says the Dem expert just testified that in his jusdgement it is impossible to determine whther or not Christine Gregoire got enough leagal votes to win.
That cannot help CG or can it?
Yes. If the judge accepts this conclusion, the election petition will fail.
Judge John Bridges pressed King County Elections Director Dean Logan about problems with the county’s election administration.
Bridges read to Logan a quote from the county’s post-election report that said while problems had occurred they were addressed “without compromising the transparency and integrity of the election.”
Bridges was clearly skeptical about the claim.
“I’ve read maybe a couple thousand pages of deposition testimony and have been here a week and a half, reading and listening to what many of the employees of your department have had to say, including Ms. Way, and I assume you are familiar with her testimony,” Bridges said to Logan.
Bridges said that when he was in the Army there was an expression which, for the purposes of addressing Logan, he would call “taking names and kicking tush.”
“Is there any sense of urgency in King County about fixing some of these problems?” he asked.
I’m not aware of others here suggesting that it’s possible to know for a fact that Gregoire got more legal votes than Rossi. Pretty much everyone has acknowledged that the final tally was within the margin of error for an election held by human beings. Elections have error rates; this has always been the case and will always be the case. The difference in this election was almost certainly less than any reasonable margin of error.
But what WA State law calls for is a procedure to determine a winner. That procedure has been followed, and Gregoire was the winner. The current trial is also part of that procedure, and most here (myself included) find the evidence put forth by the Republicans to be unconvincing. I’m pretty confident that Gregoire will serve her full term.
But that doesn’t change the fact that it’s pretty much impossible to say with any certainty that she actually received the most votes. She did, however, win the election (pending the outcome of the trial). Those are two slightly different statements.
Maybe WA State law should be changed to allow for a revote in close elections, or some other method to handle remarkably close elections. But that’s not the issue of the day. For now, it’s up to the judge to interpret current law, which would appear to favor Ms. Gregoire’s chances to prevail.
She won after illegally allowing ghosts to vote. Ballots with no voter; phantoms, apparitions…
She lost first 2 counts, and 3rd hand count was not just a re-count, it also allowed new ballots to be introduced.
We’ve never had 3 counts of the “SAME SET” of ballots…was never an arithmetic game, just a political game
Mr. Cynical @ 83
I know you pubbies are intent on having someone’s head roll, but firing Dean Logan now would be like firing your head coach two years into a contract because your team lost in the SuperBowl. (Yeah, I know, you SeaHawks fans don’t quite know what that would be like, but I figure you can at least guess…)
If you can prove that the ghosts, ballots with no voters, phantoms, and apparitions resulted in more votes for Gregoire than for Rossi, then you’ve got a case. Until then, it’s just more of the political game you claim to dislike.
The Supreme Court allowed the introduction of new valid ballots to be counted in the manual count. Are you proposing that we set aside legal procedures for deciding legal questions and just have mob rule?
Yeah Rick,
More like we hired the high school coach by mistake, and the team got crushed before we got to the game.
Skinny,
Supremes were wrong, and there isn’t like tablets from heaven mandating any of this. I just wanna know why we bother to count ballots more than once, if its never to check the arithmetic.
I’m paying more for gas
because Cheney is an ass.
Pbj, are you a bubble biter? I’ll bet you are!
Presumably, additional counts are more accurate. During the period between the initial count and certification, election officials try to get the most accurate count of legal votes – sometimes that means removing known illegal votes, sometimes it means adding known legal votes. Surely you wouldn’t suggest that valid, legal votes cast by registered voters who followed the letter of the law should be excluded from a valid count of all legal votes, simply due to a clerical error. The Supremes were right, in my opinion.
Also, if I’m not mistaken, Gregoire would have prevailed even without those extra legal and valid votes.
skinny,
rolling, laughing..
“election officials try to get the most accurate count of legal votes – sometimes that means removing known illegal votes, sometimes it means adding known legal votes”
really hurts when I read “you wouldn’t suggest that valid, legal votes cast by registered voters who followed the letter of the law should be excluded from a valid count of all legal votes, simply due to a clerical error”
You mean like our soldiers who were sent ballots on the VERY LAST DAY of a court deadline? And then their ballots got rejected (gee any wonder a military vote that might go against a Dem would be treated less kindly than a homeless person double voting)
So ballots being sent out by the deadline is now fraudulent?
I’m game to freeze what you send and what you count. No mixing apples and oranges. I don’t care what sob story Larry Philips comes up w
Yes, I’m sure if your name had been on that list that you’d have been arguing that your vote shouldn’t count, right?
And this is all a moot point, right? Gregoire still won the manual recount even without those votes?
on@98 That is fine, but that is not the law. I think hand recounts are about the closest thing we ever get to pure democracy around here and having individuals from both sides agree on each vote to determine the outcome makes me proud to be an American. If you guys had a case you would have presented it. The fact that you don’t like the result, there were mistakes made in running the election – as there are in every election, and there is some hypothetical possibility that fraud might have been possible does not equate to enough proof to overturn a legal and valid election. Sorry….
wrong headed @ 96
“You mean like our soldiers who were sent ballots on the VERY LAST DAY of a court deadline? And then their ballots got rejected (gee any wonder a military vote that might go against a Dem would be treated less kindly than a homeless person double voting)”
Would you like to back up this asinine statement with some facts? You can’t prove that even ONE military ballot was rejected in King County for being late.
Reply to 98
You can go to hell, Wrong-O. I’ll go to war, if necessary, with you Republicans to make sure that people who have the legal right to vote are allowed to vote. Your excuses for excluding legal votes don’t cut shit with me.
Statistical tie (5:01 pm)
Before completing his cross-examination, GOP attorney Mark Braden got Democrat expert witness Chris Adolph to agree that from the aggregate data we could not determine which candidate got the most legal votes.
The right wingers somehow think this concession helps them. It doesn’t. If believed by the judge, Rossi loses.
Yes, the election result was within the margin of error. That is insufficient to overturn the election result.
Hey Patrick, are you still foaming at the mouth? There are sworn affidavits supposedly submitted to the court record by military men and women that their votes didn’t make it on time. Did they file them, how do I know but they Rossi people were on the show that day. There were two people interviewed on KVI in Feb or March when the list came out that their ballots were rejected for not arriving on time. Then there is Brian Suits, KVI radio personality whose wife a police officer mailed his ballot to KCEC after she received it by mail from him while in Iraq to make it in on time. Where did his ballot go? Lost so far.
So you better have improved information. Also, did you hear the Democrapic lawyer say no illegals voted in the election. Why did two asian “voters” in teh UW area ask to have their registrations revoked by KCEC in late December or early January? Another lie perpetrated upon the voting public by the democraps.
Donnageddon, if you are going to copy stuff, at least place it in Notepad first, or learn some html/xml skills to pay the bills.
Donnageddon: I’ve just come back from the Beautician
Pudster: Pity it was closed…
Pudster: I reckon you’d make a great exchange student.
Patrick or David: Wow, you really think so?
Pudster: Yes, we might be able to exchange you for someone nice.
To the ID10T’s who love to FU me; please think of something more original. Donnageddon, “The San Fransisco Treat” likes my humor. Too bad she can’t think of anything funny.
Mr X: Excuse me for asking Mr X, but who drives up the cost of health insurance? Lawyers with their high malpractice suits. Who loves “dem” lawyers? Why does the ABA contribute to the democrapic party? Hmmm…? Why do you think X-Rays are no longer asked for by doctors but PET, CAT, and MRI Scans? Who drives up the cost of medicines? Lawyers with lawsuits on medicines. Now lawsuits are a good thing, but excessive payouts are another.
From a study: “In addition, many medical tests are ordered by physicians who may be afraid of malpractice lawsuits. They are, in essence, ordering tests for the benefit of the medical record, not for the benefit of the patient. However, we have all become accustomed to having these tests performed. Currently, there is a reduction in the number of tests performed as a result of the pressures on physicians by managed care companies. This pressure has created a major backlash against managed care firms. There is great concern that these companies are more interested in saving money than in having patients treated properly.
The cost of developing these medications is very high, and the patent that gives the developer and manufacturer the opportunity to recoup their costs is time-limited. That time frame is further compressed by the need to obtain approval from the Food and Drug Administration to place the medication on the market. The process of proving that the new medicine is both safe and effective can take years. Thus, when the new medication is finally available, the manufacturer must charge enough to cover discovery, development, and testing in a relatively short period of time—plus stockholders also expect to see a return on their investment.
To give you some idea as to the numbers we are talking about, there are about 33 million people aged 65 and over and, on average, they are expected to live another 17.7 years. Forty percent of those who are white, and 65 percent of African Americans 65 and over, have high blood pressure. While those who are more than 65 years old represent 12 percent of the population, they consume 25 percent of all prescription medications.” So blame the high costs on Bush like you do everything else.
Now be good and call your Chinese friends overseas and tell them to stop using all that oil and we can have lower prices. Oh that’s right, you all blame Halliburton, the same company Bill Clinton called upon to help rebuild Bosnia. Hmmm…???
Pudster
Priscilla@93
The gas is actually rather cheap, unlike the state taxes…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatod.....jbQ–
Hey you all, I think Goldy ate my message again. It would have been 104. Wonderful Goldy!!
Yeah so much for a free country at HA.
Pudster
Does anyone know what the latest on relative numbers of illegal voters presented by Dem vs GOP? I’m surprised there hasn’t been any testimony debating juvenile convinctions, CFRs, whether provisionals in various counties were ultimately validated or not, and so on. Have the sides agreed on what the counts are, or has there been testimony/evidence I’ve missed?
Puddinghead @106,
Fuck you. Your post got held by the blog spam filter because it contained the word “prescription” in it, and I didn’t get around to approving it immediately because I was taking a fucking nap.
You really think I give a flying fuck about your opinions, that I’d actually sit around trying to block your posts? I don’t even read 90 percent of them. So if you don’t like it here, stop posting.
You must make one damn rude house guest.
Hey Patrick
You can call KVI any night, 6pm or later and talk to Lt. Brian Suits. I don’t have his number memorized, but if you promise to call, all us KVI guys will tune in..
Is your voice squeaky like Goldies?
Nindid
You guys move fast: first it was honest election, then it was too screwed up to tell.
what is it? whatever helps you win?
Pud,
Surprise surprise, more right-wing dogma. If you do 30 seconds of research, you can find out
how thoroughly the trial lawyer/runaway jury award bullshit has been
discredited. The big cost drivers in insurance costs have been poor investment decisions
by fund managers, executive compensation, and the fact that the health care system conservatives
vaunt as “the world’s finest” is one of the world’s most inefficient. Single payer health care would
save the middle class more money than they’ve gotten from Bush’s tax increases (which went overwhelmingly
to the rich, need I remind you), and all of the scare talk about Canada’s health care system doesn’t
change the fact that Canadians support that system overwhelmingly.
If there is a problem with the excessive practice of anticipatory/protective medicine, then deal with it. But hearing
crocodile tears shed about that issue by a bunch of neocon social darwinists who have opposed the very idea
of Medicare, Social Security, or any public social safety net takes the hypocrisy cake. And considering all myriad real-
world horror stories about all the things HMO’s won’t pay for even though they’re actually necessary, I have doubts
about the magnitude of the problem.
anecdote itself.
mr x
did you all get programming to call us “neo-cons” at the same time you were told to call yourself “progressives”
wierd how you all have no mind of your own.
I don’t need to do an Internet search, Mr. X I was just in Canada last weekend. My wife and I talked to many older Canadians during lunch and in the weight room. Guess what in Vancouver and Victoria Island, they would come here in a heartbeat for treatment. My wife has a sister who works in a Calgary hospital so we know what really goes on. Her cousins live in Toronto. They’d come to America they say. Your little commentary is hyperbole to what real Canadians say about their system.
Yes I was caught up in the traffic mess above Marysville (God have mercy on their souls) where three people died.
If you talked to real people instead of relying on the Internet you’d find out that they like our system down here. If you talked to Brits about their medical system you’d find out that they like our medical system here. Wait for months for an operation with socialized medicine.
BTW I am not one of those neocon social darwinists. I support the need for medicare, as my mother and father used it before their deaths. I support the need for social security but will I see much of it and will my children see any of it unless it’s fixed? No! What does your good friend Nancy Pelosi say: “Why fix it now we can wait a few more years.” Yeah when she retires and people forget who she is. Who paid the most taxes? The rich do, so when you have an across the board tax cut who gets a bigger benefit? I know this will be distasteful but navigate to this site and look at the bottom of the page for CBO tax info:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.guest.html It’s the free portion of the site so you can see it for yourself.
Sorry wrongo again MR. X.
Pudster
Goldy, glad to see you are awake. And thanks again for another FU. I think that’s 37 now. I really must be liked! Please don’t read my posts as you may become educated.
Come on over to my house and you’ll see what type of host I am. Not one who likes to FU everyone who I disagee with. I like it here. You guys are the best friends anyone could ever wish for.
Pudster
Goldy @ 108
My you are testy tonite.
You should have taken your nap earlier this afternoon….like @ 3:15PM so you wouldn’t have gone on Carlson’s Show and made an asshole out of your self.
That stupid ass comment about the SOS not having to be unbiased because they were party to the lawsuit was your lowest moment on radio. When Carlson explained to you the reason the SOS office had to be unbiased was because they PROMISED TO BE UNBIASED…did you even know you had been bitch-slapped???
Radio is tricky.
Stop telegraphing your punches dude….for starters.
I’m still chuckling about how fucking stupid you looked.
Live and learn Goldy. CHIN UP!
I still enjoy your efforts.
I’ve been to Canada plenty – and I’ll match you anecdote for anecdote and raise you actual polls on what most
Canadians think of their health care system compared to ours.
I thought it was more polite to call the new breed of conservatives neocons than dickheads, but I’ll reconsider….
Hey Goldy, curious question, what could be the harm in the word “prescription” enquiring minds want to know…
Mr X–
You can’t be so naive, blind and just plain stupid to believe the Canadian Healthcare system is all that…can you??
Canada’s system is great if you have a slight cough or the sniffles…but if you have something seriously wrong with you, the bottom-line X is you are probably going to FUCKING DIE WAITING FOR A REAL DOCTOR!!!!!!!!!!!
Canadians line up down here to be treated when they are really sick (if they can afford it).
LEFTIST PINHEADED SOCIALISTS LIVE IN A DAMN DREAM WORLD filled with visions of sugar plums where everyone is equal….
but alas, as in Animal House…some of us are more EQUAL than others.
Grow up X you stupid SOB!
PuddyButt @ 106
“Hey you all, I think Goldy ate my message again. It would have been 104. Wonderful Goldy!!
You are such a fucking idiot! You forget from one day to the next that Goldy does not censor posts? Some messages get trapped in his spam filter until Goldy rescues them. Did you play with a lot of mercury when you were a child, or something?
Yeah so much for a free country at HA.
Ummmm. . . sorry dip shit, you are sadly mistaken. This blog is private property. Goldy allows us to post here, because he is a benevolent dictator. He could, at any time he wants, decide to shut you or anyone else out. Try to keep that in mind when you start dropping your turds in the comment threads.
It seems to me that Goldy has asked us to do two things as his guests here: (1) aim to keep posts reasonably on topic, and (2) use the open threads for off topic posts.
Far be it from me to tell you what to do here Buttster, but you know you do come off as quite the rude motherfucker when you show up on Goldy’s blog and ignore his requests.
righton @ 112
“did you all get programming to call us “neo-cons” at the same time you were told to call yourself “progressives”
Go fuck yourself.
You knew that was coming, didn’t you? :-)
dj–
Man you are still mean and grumpy.
How are we going to get you out of this sorry state.
Perhaps if you go and watch a re-run of the Nick Handy testimony it will cheer you up (or more likely make you want to slit your wrists).
Mr. Cynical,
“You are mighty grumpy and mean today. Did you wake up on the wrong side of your crib today after your nappy-nap?? I’m teasing you dj. It’s not like you to weigh in on the bullshit. Watsup?”
Thanks for caring! Naaa. . . not on edge, just a busy day. When I had a chance to go over a promising thread, I find a couple of big fat stinky turds clogging it up.
So, seriously, Mr. Cynical, did you have a chance to hear Dean Logan on the stand? From the “right” perspective, how did he come off?
Or soon to retire Mrs Sanchez (i keeping wanting to say Loretta Sanchez, but i think that’s the orange county latina that stole Dornans seat)
Logan actually came off as a charming, reasonable guy….who is in a job that exceeds his abilities. I didn’t listen to the whole thing (I tuned out when Hamilton asked him how he felt about the retired Senior pollworkers) but from what I heard, he didn’t blow it like Handy did. Logan was a bit evasive on some questions….I could tell he had been coached since his deposition. But I didn’t sense he was lying or covering up….just a little wiggly at times.
Logan’s been outed (as boob), not much blood left in that turnip. Time to squeeze Sanchez real good.
Mr. Cynical @ 122
Hey. . . we mostly agree again! I though he did fine, but it wasn’t a show stopper either way. I am still scratching my head a bit about why the Dems put him on the stand. It seemed risky, but I am not a lawyer, so what do I know.
dj–
I really believe if the Dems had never presented their case they may have been homefree…as risky as that strategy might seem.
Let’s face it…LAWYERS LOVE TO DO LAWYERING.
Hindsight is 20-20…but I think Handy really hurt the Dems because Bridges was fairly convinced the SOS Office was unbiased until Handy got up there. BAD MOVE!
wrong headed @ 96
“You mean like our soldiers who were sent ballots on the VERY LAST DAY of a court deadline? And then their ballots got rejected (gee any wonder a military vote that might go against a Dem would be treated less kindly than a homeless person double voting)”
Would you like to back up this asinine statement with some facts? You can’t prove that even ONE military ballot was rejected in King County for being late.
Comment by Patrick— 6/1/05 @ 6:41 pm
Patrick that military vote you talk about does have some flaws, I was watching Snohomish County workers mail out ballots to Troops out of country, knowing the ballots wouldn’t get there in time.I didn’t see any bums miss their ballots. Patrick did I hear you claim to have been in the Army at one time. Rember love and Pease, and don’t forget to take a long drag on tha Canada Bud.
DJ thank for for the 38th FU. :P I personally think you gave me 7 so far. Didn’t you drop another F-Bomb earlier tonight. I know David gave me 5 FUs recently. ;) Yes I did play with mercury and benzene when I was younger as my undergrad is chem e. But I know that the mercury vapors went up in the hood.
I appreciate each FU I get because I know I hit another nerve. Regarding Dean, dj, you have to admit that each time he heard a tough question from the Pubs he looked over to the dems table for a supportive eye contact. Other than that he didn’t blow it like Handy or Pearson.
Cynical I don’t take most of this personally. As I like to see what their hot buttons are.
Goldy: When you come over to my house you leave well fed. Why? Momma told me to always have a full plate waiting for guests. You are welcome over to my house anytime, but I doubt I would be welcome over to yours.
Righton on you are correct on Sanchez in Orange County. Was there in March. That seat won’t change hands for a long time. B-1 Bob Dornan went into radio for a while.
DJ: Some drink from the fountain of knowledge; you only gargled. I sometimes wonder if your brain will be donated to science and rejected? Dropping turds. I was expecting something a little sharper from you!!!
Have a great night dj, as I am a troll to you but I don’t do half the stuff they claim a troll does on AOL. Happy Hunting dj.
Pudster
Mr. Cynical,
“I really believe if the Dems had never presented their case they may have been homefree…as risky as that strategy might seem.
Let’s face it…LAWYERS LOVE TO DO LAWYERING.
Hindsight is 20-20…but I think Handy really hurt the Dems because Bridges was fairly convinced the SOS Office was unbiased until Handy got up there. BAD MOVE!”
I didn’t catch all of the Handy testimony, but I was pretty happy with what I heard. Indeed, the email that mentioned “undermining the GOP case” could be damaging. On the other hand:
(1) Judge Bridges has read all of the SoS responses to motions (I have read all posted on the SoS web site), and I think the SoS really does come off as a voice of neutrality and reason in all of this. That is, even if I don’t always like the outcome, I find the SoS arguments reasonable. I suspect Judge Bridges will recognize that Handy had disagreements with particular GOP issues, but not others.
(2) Even if Judge Bridges views Handy’s statements as distasteful, it is hard to imagine what legal relevance it has to either a fraud case or to the proportional deduction case. Judge Bridges has already ruled out use of voter crediting records as a measure of the validity of the election. My impression is that Handy’s ill-considered note was about use of voter crediting (but please correct me if you think I missed some relevant information).
PuddyButt @ 129
“Regarding Dean, dj, you have to admit that each time he heard a tough question from the Pubs he looked over to the dems table for a supportive eye contact. Other than that he didn’t blow it like Handy or Pearson.”
I didn’t know that, as I was mostly listening to the audio (the video stream dropped out too much). Thank you, Puddy, for contribting a useful bit of information to this conversation. I appreciate it.
As for the rest of your comments to me: shove ’em up your ass! (Nothing personal, though, Puddy) :-)
Mr X.: I just did an Internet search for your great Canadian health system polls. The best numbers I found were 54% against their health system in May 2002.
Environics’ poll of 3,221 adult Canadians (weighted to 2,000) found that 67 percent believe their country’s health care system is in a state of crisis; 32 percent believe the system is basically in good shape. One percent offered no opinion on the question. These results are based on a mail survey distributed to randomly recruited respondents and returned between March and June, 2002.
A comparable poll of 1,008 adult Americans, designed by Environics Research Group for the Campbell Institute of the Maxwell School at Syracuse University, found that 63 percent of Americans believe their country’s health care system is in a state of crisis; 28 percent believe the system is basically in good shape. Nine percent offered no opinion on the question. These results are based on a telephone survey conducted September 6 to September 8, 2002.
Please link me in Scotty to the poll that says Canada’s health system is overwhelmingly loved!
Pudster
Dear PuddyBuddy cutie pie, and Mr C.
I love hearing neo-con dipshits talk about Canadian Health Care. If you go to Canada with your obvious “foot in Mouth” disease, you will be sent to the psychiatric ward.
Half of my family is Canadian, and if you want to get the shit beat out of you, just threaten them with the American Health system. Threaten them with Insurance company middlemen, inflated drug prices, losing healthcare when unemployed, and going bankrupt (if you can anymore) when a major medical emergency rears its head.
Yeh, you bet, Canadians are rioting on the street to get America’s medical system.
You fucking, lying, pull-shit-out-of-my-ass Morons!
You are pathetic worms without any data to back up the slop you hear from the Right Wing MSM, you just repeat it like mocking birds fed for the slaughter.
Have a nice night.
Reply to 128
Did the Snoho County workers tell you they “knew” the ballots wouldn’t get there on time?
Is there some reason why those military voters couldn’t use a FWIB?
Comment to 133
You’re talking to a brick wall, Donna. When did a neocon ever let facts get in the way of his bullshit-spewing?
P.S. Donna, these selfish bastards LIKE our health system because they’ve got THEIRS and don’t care about anybody but themselves.
Here come da Judge!
Dems will be through tommorrow (talk about having zero defense….gees)
Even their own Expert witness says it is impossible to tell who got the most legal votes!
Looks like Fri may be the happy day!
We’ll help ya pack up and we’ll leave the light on for ya CG!
What about the no-confidence resolution, you all?
And hey, let’s for the sake of removing “complexity” in the honor of Dean Logan require the following:
#1. Mary Lane is to not pin her mane up. Note I said mane.
#2. Your pet can vote… and so can your underage little brother.
#3. You can vote more than once.
#4. Councilman Reagan Dunn is overdunn.
#5. Hey, you’re a felon. Big deal!
#6. Mary Lane driving you nuts? Wait until her Josef in Marummy Country blogs about her!!
#7. Provisional or not? No big deal!
#8. All Democrats are saints to be worshipped… but wait, what about Zell Miller? He still calls himself a Democrat.
#9. Only Grandmothers can work at poll sites. Councilwoman Patterson likes it that way.
#10. Dean Logan for Secretary of State!
I figure that is the mindset of you folks. Note the new pinups of my leader :-).
Pudding for Brains @ 104, there’s lots of reasons why a military ballot might not make it back. Like getting delayed in the military mail system, for example. Or the voter procrastinating in mailing it. Your willingness to blame this on the election officials is way too facile. The truth is, you don’t know what happened to those ballots, so your comments prove nothing.
Cheesy Chuckie @ 105
“The gas is actually rather cheap, unlike the state taxes…”
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HOO HOO HOO HAW HAW HAW WHOOP WHOOP GAG CHUCKLE YEEEHAW HAW HA HA HA HA HA HA
Thanks for the laughs, Chuckie, I needed that! :D
If I may for the sake of “simplicity” today…
#10. Mary Lane/Marummy is not to pin up her mane. Ever again.
#9. Only Grandmothers can work at poll sites. Councilwoman Patterson’s request.
#8. Reagan Dunn is overdunn.
#7. Anybody can vote. Even aliens from outer space!
#6. All Democrats are to be worshipped… including Zell Miller!!!
#5. All felons are “caucasian and white”. So says Commissar Berendt.
#4. Tim Eyman is an a–hole.
#3. Reagan Dunn should not be allowed to drive. Nor should you. All of us must now use uneconomical Sounder.
#2. Marummy drive you nuts? Then wait until she marries her blogger…
and the #1 on this Top Ten List…
#1. Provisional or normal? Have it your way! Doesn’t matter – you’re vote will count. Step right this way to the AccuVote machine.
Serves you right, yahoos. I hope you get my humour in this “HAIL MARUMMY PASS!”
If I may for the sake of “simplicity†today (and correct a typo as I make this V 1.1) make a Top Ten List:
#10. Mary Lane/Marummy is not to pin up her mane. Ever again.
#9. Only Grandmothers can work at poll sites. Councilwoman Patterson’s request.
#8. Reagan Dunn is overdunn.
#7. Anybody can vote. Even aliens from outer space!
#6. All Democrats are to be worshipped… including Zell Miller!!!
#5. All felons are “caucasian and white”. So says Commissar Berendt.
#4. Tim Eyman is an a–hole.
#3. All of us must now use uneconomical Sounder, especially Tim Eyman and the staff of KVI.
#2. Marummy drive you nuts? Then wait until she marries her blogger…
and the #1 on this Top Ten List for the sake of simplicity. . .
#1. Provisional or normal? Have it your way! Doesn’t matter – your vote will count. Step right this way to the AccuVote machine.
Serves you right, yahoos. I hope you get my humour in this “HAIL MARUMMY PASS!â€
Many of the beliefs these Reps have now that were disproven long ago, they just trot them out anew some months down the road and expect you to argue the whole thing again. It’s part of the big lie thing these Christo/Fascists do.
At a certain point enoughs enough. Most people who drive like aggressive assholes are Rep. I don’t think anyone would disagree.
Pudding for Brains said,
“Mr X: Excuse me for asking Mr X, but who drives up the cost of health insurance? Lawyers with their high malpractice suits. Who loves “dem” lawyers?”
This is another Republican myth/bullshit/bombastic propaganda/lie being used to push a political agenda.
Fact:
1. There is no difference in health care costs between states that have enacted tort reform and those that have not.
2. Malpractice lawsuits account for less than 1/2 of 1% of health care costs.
3. Both the number of lawsuits and the median punitive damage award have been declining since 1975.
4. Insurance rates have risen because of stock market losses and reduced investment income because of low interest rates and stock dividend yields, not because of an increase in damage awards.
5. Health care costs are rising because of an aging population, increased use of expensive new medical technologies and treatments, and increased use of expensive emergency care by a growing number of uninsured people, not because of lawsuits.
6. Insurance companies do not promise lower premiums if tort reform is enacted, and states that have enacted tort reform have not seen decreases in either insurance rates or health costs.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0122-11.htm
Pudding for Brains also said,
“The cost of developing these medications is very high, and the patent that gives the developer and manufacturer the opportunity to recoup their costs is time-limited.”
Fact: Drug companies spend far more on advertising than R & D. Typically, about 17% of the price of a drug represents development costs and 40% goes to advertising and marketing costs.
Just look at the drugs that are most heavily marketed in the expensive TV market: Sex-enhancing drugs, and painkillers that are now being pulled off the market because of dangerous side effects. Meanwhile, only two companies in the entire world are willing to produce flu vaccine because there isn’t enough profit in it.
Look at your link there Patrick…see? it says VIEWS, that means it’s NOT FACT but an o p i n i o n… get it??
And please, CommonDreams??? What’s their tag line…”Breaking news and views for the PROGRESSIVE community”. Yep no bias there… For God sake that’s like using HA as a source for facts.
Pudding for Brains said,
“So blame the high costs on Bush like you do everything else.”
Nobody is blaming high health care costs on Bush, idiot! Bush is being (correctly) blamed for (1) making it illegal for Medicare to save money by buying drugs at bulk rates, and (2) trying to keep Americans from buying the same drugs at lower prices from Canada or Mexico.
Pop Quiz: Which industry ranks #1 in campaign contributions to the Republican Party?
Take a guess.
Right wingers like puddybutt are shameless, compulsive liars. Sometimes I think they actually believe the shit they spew. If so, it’s because they’re too lazy to look anything up.
Reply to 109
Here’s what Sound Politics said about Suits’ ballot:
“That was the wrong ballot to lose”
“Thanks to Stefan’s trusty voter database, most Washingtonians can quickly check to see if their ballot was counted in the last election, a resource that King County itself has not provided directly.
“Lt. Bryan Suits, recently home from combat in Iraq, used it to discover that his general election absentee ballot was not counted. Actually, what he saw in the database search result was a hash mark… curious, he called King County elections, who confirmed that although his vote was counted in the primary, he was not credited with voting in the November election.
“You ask: ‘maybe it didn’t arrive in time?’ Well, to ensure that it was counted, he had sent the completed absentee ballot to his wife (a police officer, by the way) who made sure it was in the postal system well in advance of election day.
“Perhaps the post office lost his ballot? How many absentee ballots do you suppose the post office loses during a presidential election? Probably more than either the post office or election officials want to admit. Did Diebold lose the ballot?
” … This is now a federal matter, and the FBI can investigate it. That’s the first call he’s going to place tomorrow.
…
(Updated and edited 4/7 )
…
“Posted by Brian Crouch at April 06, 2005 07:34 PM”
http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/004136.html
Looks like Suits doesn’t know what happened to his ballot. Guess what, you don’t know what happened to it either, self-Right-ous Blowhard. Maybe the FBI will find out and get back to you (and him). When they do, why don’t you get back to us. Until then, stow your hot air.
BTW, Lt. Suits, thank you for your service and welcome home.
Patrick, take a look at an article in your precious Seattle Times, Friday, December 12, 2003
Think Canada’s the place to be? Think again
By Jennifer Meeks
Relevant excerpt:
“ Health care — Speaking of doctors, every Canadian has experienced or knows of a family member who has a nightmare health-care story. It may be free but that doesn’t mean it’s good.
Hospitals are miserable. There are long waiting lists for the most basic treatments and operations. When we went to an American hospital, it was like entering a five-star hotel. I hear Americans complain about the cost of medical bills but I would rather my child be alive and have a bill to pay than to be dead at no charge.
In Canada, there is one system of health care for everyone — except the elite or government bureaucrats, who go to the U.S. and pay for decent health care. “
I also suggest you take peak at what she has to say about…
Taxes
Official bilingualism
Employment
Political oppression
And that was 18 montha ago!… Do you really think things have radically changed since then?
I do, for the worse.
Comment on 111
Yeah, I forgot to mention, inefficiency is a big cost item in the U.S. health care system. Especially middleman costs. Thanks for bringing it up, Mr. X, I overlooked that one.
Many countries deliver health care better than ours to ALL their citizens at far less cost. Our private health care system is the laughingstock of the civilized world. And Bush wants to “privatize” Medicare? Medicare has 1/15th of the administrative costs the private system has.
Reply to 112
The term “neocon” was coined and popularized by the neocons themselves, dumbshit.
Cripes, I can’t stay up all night replying to all the misinformation, disinformation, b.s., and outright lies posted by the retardo-trolls. I gotta sleep sometime. Just disregard everything they say and you’ll be fine.
Noisy @ 145
Since you claim to grok the difference between a fact and an opinion, surely you can tell the difference between an opinion piece and the facts that the opinion piece cites in support of the opinion. Moreover, you should also know that bias has no effect on the truth or falsehood of the facts that are cited in said opinion piece.
So, demonstrate that you actually grok the difference between a fact and an opinion by pointing out which of the numbered items in Patrick’s comment at 143 are statements of fact and which are statements of opinion.
Einstein @ 49
Have you ever wondered why it’s always a hot button issue in the U.S. to move towards a national health care system, yet it’s rarely even discussed in Canadian politics to move away from theirs?
Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, chief.
Read it and weep, All Fools, you freaking waste of space.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/n.....report.pdf
You quote an opinion peice by another deluded fool and think it is fact. Sheep.
Canada’s healthcare system provides better results for much cheaper costs. For Everyone, you gaddamn elitist pig fucker.
Who’dathunk @ 81 said “Somebody better get ahold of Postman in a hurry. the headline at http://www.seattletimes.com says the Dem expert just testified that in his jusdgement it is impossible to determine whther or not Christine Gregoire got enough leagal votes to win.”
And Right on @ 82 said ”The Democrats’ statistical expert testified that it is impossible to know whether Gov. Christine Gregoire actually got the most legal votes in the November election”
That is not what Professor Adolph said. He was asked if, in his analysis it was possible to know. I suppose this is slightly ambiguous, but Adolph was clearly refering to any kind of statistical method to deduct illegal votes from the election total.
Here is a transcript of the exchange:
GOP: …and if this court determines that there are 1,926 illegal votes (or a higher number then that) illegal votes in this election . . . is then it a hopeless case to determine who won.
Adolph: This depends, actually, on the tightness of the bounds, as I explained. So you would have to actually look at how those votes are distributed across precincts. If they were concentrated in a few precincts, then we might be able to use modern techniques of ecological inference. Or if we had survey data about the invalid voters, it might be possible to apportion them. But, if they’re spread out in a similar fashion to that here, where they are spread out very, very thinly across the state, then I don’t think it is likely that any of the numbers being talked about here are going to produce data that we can analyze and extract any useful information from.
GOP: OK. . . So the reality is in this case … is that the 1,900 is spread around to some degree in this state. Is that your understanding of it, too?
Adolph: That is my understanding, yes.
GOP: So, and the difference in this race is 129 votes, do you understand that too?
Adolph: Yes.
GOP: Ok. So, based upon the number of illegal votes that both sides, or each side is alleging in this case, it is hopeless to determine whether or not—if you look behind you—whether or not Christine Gregoire got that certificate of election because she got the most legal votes.
Adolph: From the aggregate data, it is impossible to do that.
GOP: So we don’t—as you sit there—we don’t know if she got the most legal votes in your analysis.
Adolph: As a sci—excuse me, as a scientific question, no, we do not.
GOP: Thank you.
Of course, this is saying nothing more than that ecological inference cannot be used with those 1,900 with any certainty.
PudDarrell lies about being insulted at 129: “I know David gave me 5 FUs recently. ;-)”
Um, did not. Have you gotten so paranoid that you’re imagining things now? Or is that not a new thing?
If you’ve noticed I haven’t been responding to you as much lately, it’s because I’ve realized that Patrick’s characterization of you at 147 is true. (Same goes for pbj.) [See also first sentence of 142 (re: dredging up old canards)]. Trolls aren’t worth my time.
One thought on the topic of medical costs and “tort reform” (caps on compensation for malpractice): if the problem is “frivolous lawsuits,” why don’t tort reformers do anything about frivolous lawsuits? The Republican plan is to scream about “frivolous lawsuits”—but instead cap damages in meritorious lawsuits, so that people who really are victims of malpractice won’t be fully compensated for their injuries.
Who thinks that makes sense?
Comment on 122
Mr. Cynical is like a cat who is cute and cuddly and makes you laugh but keeps pissing on the carpet and clawing the furniture.
Reply to 149
Gee, that looks like an OPINION piece to me!
Hey, I have a question for you, cat-shit-for-brains: If Canada’s health care system is so lousy and kills so many people, then WHY don’t
(a) Canada’s politicians get rid of it,
OR
(b) Canada’s voters get rid of the politicians?
Comment on 158
Yeah, you raised an interesting point, David. Frivolous lawsuits don’t even get to the jury because they don’t survive a defense motion for summary judgment. The only way you can proceed to trial is by alleging facts which, if provided, entitle your client to relief; and the only way you can get ANY judgment is if the facts prove the defendant WAS negligent.
Comment on 156
That exchange blows to hell the GOP assertion that the felon votes are concentrated in Democratic precincts in King County.
thatPrick@many–
WTF?????
Did you mistakenly rub Ben-Gay on your dick last night before sitting at your computer??
My, you were certainly an ANGRY LEFTIST PINHEAD last night, weren’t you!
I have 2 brother-in-laws and a sister-in-law who are (soon to be were) doctors and a brother who works for a medical physics department at a major university. Your comment about malpractice costing 1/2 of 1% of medical costs is totally misleading….and you know you fucking dirtbag!
Malpractice and lawyers have caused doctors to practice incredibly expensive “defensive medicine”. Unnecessary testing is done now as a matter of course—HUGE COSTS. Unnecessary internal controls are required—HUGE COSTS.
One brother-in-law is the managing partner of a huge pathology lab in a major City. You ought to listen to him talk about what they are now forced to do by insurers do to ridiculous court cases.
thatPrick–you have been a scumsucking bottom-feeder for so long, you actually believe your lawyerly bullshit. I hope when you get real sick, you are in Canada! When you finally drag your sorry ass back to the US for real treatment, tell the doctors about your Socialist medicine beliefs. Then prepare to meet your maker!
Stefan’s trusty voterbase is what the state gave him. You make it sound likef he created the thing out of whole cloth.
Ms Geddon, Patrick, DJ and all you leftists:
If you accurately read my posts you would have learned:
1) My sister-in-law works in a Calgary hospital. Correction: Her husband does too. They would take American medicine over Canadian medicine any day. :P
2.) Her cousins live in Toronto would do the same. Correction: Eleven cousins who live in Toronto would do the same. :P
3.) Her cousins live in Britain would do the same. Correction: Six cousins who live in Britian would do the same. :P
How do we know this. A wedding last month and representatives from all families showed up for it. I went back and looked at where her family tree is last night before bed.
4.) My older sister lived in London for 4.5 years with her family – She was glad to come back to the US to our health care system. :P
Ms Donnageddon – You just proved to me why you think the way you do.
Now back to your stoopid arguments. I can search the Internet just like you. But where ms donnageddon finds one link to support here “theory” I found many and I stopped because the number of links to my hypothesis is great. I posted six links on my last argument and you leftists complained of me being wordy. Well, wordiness from Canadian web sites tell the truth!
Here is a March 2005 link:
http://the-econoclast.blogspot.....en-it.html – Great article – One of the primary reasons for the serious deterioration of our health system is that in the mid-1980s, the federal gubmnt mandated that we could not have any private provision of health care. The gubmnt did not want any two-tiered health system — better that everyone be worse off than let some folks pay to get more. Fortunately Mario Dumont would like to break the gubmnt monopoly on the provision of health care. Let us hope other politicians soon see the light as well. – Political argument see ya.
http://www.nationalcenter.org/.....ealth.html – Fifty percent of the Canadian hospital administrators said the average waiting time for a 65-year-old man requiring a routine hip replacement was more than six months. Not one American hospital administrator reported waiting periods that long. Eighty-six percent of American hospital administrators said the average waiting time was shorter than three weeks. Wait times see ya.
http://www.mackinac.org/article.asp?ID=192 – Actually, the real cost of Canada’s increasingly politicized system is measured by more than dollars. Lengthy wait lists for a variety of medical procedures are common. The poor are stuck with an indifferent bureaucracy while the better off can go elsewhere, particularly the U.S. Two-tier system see ya
http://www.fin.gc.ca/budget03/booklets/bkheae.htm – “Canadians want a sustainable health care system that provides timely access to quality health services. They recognize that reform is essential, and they support new public investments targeted to achieve this goal.” – 2003 First Ministers’ Accord on Health Care Renewal Political Reform, maybe see ya
Federal, provincial and territorial governments have all taken steps to improve the quality, accessibility and sustainability of Canada’s public health care system and have implemented important reforms. All governments recognize that reform is essential, and support new public investments targeted to achieve this goal. Priorities for reform include primary health care, targeted home care, catastrophic drug coverage, access to diagnostic/medical equipment and the development of a system of electronic health records.
http://www.aims.ca/aimslibrary.....#038;id=80 – Better Ways to Finance Medicare looks at the health care usage of Nova Scotians over the last ten years and determines that combining a flat deductible of $325 and a government-financed MSA targeted at individuals who make less than $32,000 would save medicare $88.3 million in Nova Scotia alone and reduce overall demands on the system by about 5 percent But I thought Govment Health Care was Free? see ya
http://www.aims.ca/aimslibrary.....038;id=331 – In this timely essay, AIMS President Brian Lee Crowley and AIMS Fellow in Health Care Policy Dr. David Zitner argue that politicians and senior health officials simply don’t know where or why medicare is failing because they still lack the proper tools to evaluate the quality or timeliness of the care Canadians receive. More to the point, they demonstrate why, under the current system, it is not in the government’s interests to know what is really happening in health care. But Donnageddon and Patrick said Canadian Health Systems are better. see ya
http://www.aims.ca/aimslibrary.....038;id=519 – The policy that is being vilified by public-sector unions and alarmist journalists and academics is that the existing private clinics in Alberta be allowed to keep patients overnight, thus enlarging somewhat the services they provide. Alberta, where the wife’s sister and husband live and work. Patients can’t stay overnight because UNIONS say no? see ya Ha ha ha.
Did I say US health care is great and wonderful? No, I said I would not want a Canadian system of health care rationing. Their govemnment ministers are beginning to see it and the people who have money come to the US. Canadian doctors come to the US for what? To make more money! Rationing health care is also rationing salaries.
I went to the source AIMS – Canadian Research.
Standard anecdotal response from the left. I go to the source.
Pudster
Gee, that looks like an OPINION piece to me!
Hey, I have a question for you, cat-shit-for-brains: If Canada’s health care system is so lousy and kills so many people, then WHY don’t
(a) Canada’s politicians get rid of it,
OR
(b) Canada’s voters get rid of the politicians?
Comment by Patrick— 6/2/05 @ 12:55 am
Follow the money numbnuts – it gives poiliticians more CONTROL over massive amounts of money nad over citizens lives.
That was the wholoe point of HillaryCare: Nationalising 1/7 of the US economy.
And we can see how well it worked in when tried in Tennessee.
No one could ever accuse you soci*alists of not being eternally optimistic – you keep trying and failing, trying and failing, trying and failing, yet yet blithely go on and on, making the excuse “If we only try it MY way, we can get it to work”.
Numbnuts, the whole bunch of you.
My medical comment reply is being verified by Goldy’s spam filter. I think the word prescriptions is in it again. I went to AIMS, and did my research – Canada’s own research facility. When posted you’ll see how they feel from doctors to patients.
Pudster
Yes, I just tested the Goldy spam filter with pre$criptions. When the reply is certified you will see how others in Canada view their health system.
Pudster
Regarding sources,
Some of you may be wondering about the hierarchy of newspapers in the U.S.
Who reads what?
1.The Wall Street Journal is read by the people who run the country.
2.The New York Times is read by people who think they run the country.
3.The Washington Post is read by people who think they ought to run the country.
4.USA Today is read by people who think they ought to run the country but don’t understand the Washington Post.
5.The Los Angeles Times is read by people who wouldn’t mind running the country, if they could spare the time.
6.The Boston Globe is read by people whose parents used to run the country.
7.The New York Daily News is read by people who aren’t too sure who’s running the country.
8.The New York Post is read by people who don’t care who’s running the country, as long as they do something scandalous.
9.The San Francisco Chronicle is read by people who aren’t sure there is a country, or that anyone is running it.
10.The Miami Herald is read by people who are running another country.
11. The PI and the Times are believed by the same numbnuts who think soci*lism will work THIS time (yoooo, that’s you seattle libs and “read” by the the owners of drippy birds, drooling puppies and stinky fish.
The Pudwhacker had lots of blue stuff in his post. I like that. I think he’s real smart….
Reply to 164
Maybe if they had practiced defensive medicine in the first place there wouldn’t have been any need for lawsuits. What do you say to a patient who is crippled for life and incurs huge medical costs because of a doctor’s screwup? Sorry about that, but fuck you?
Next thing you know, the wingers will want legal immunity if they drive their SUVs at 60 mph in a 25 zone (like they do daily on my not-so-quiet residential street) and run over a kid? Tort reform, you know. Ya, we gotta prevent all these frivolous tort suits by outraged parents of squished kids, or the personal injury lawyers will kill SUV sales!
Reply to 164
“thatPrick–you have been a scumsucking bottom-feeder for so long, you actually believe your lawyerly bullshit. I hope when you get real sick, you are in Canada!”
I hope so, too.
Reply to 170(11)
Socialism sucks, but it’s still better than fascism.
Follow the money numbnuts – it gives poiliticians more CONTROL over massive amounts of money nad over citizens lives
What kind of a half-assed response is that? That doesn’t even come close to addressing Patrick’s statements, not to mention that our health care system gives the same amount of control to the health care and pharmaceutical industry (and we can’t vote them out). If it gives the politicians too much control in Canada, then the voters up there will vote them out. That doesn’t happen, and the reason is that while Canadians don’t think their system is perfect, they’re terrified to have our system. As is every other first-world country.
Health care costs have become the biggest reason for personal bankruptcy, which ends up costing everyone money. The problem is that health care is not meant to be a profitable industry. It is meant to be a service for people. And generally, the people who end up being most in need of that service, are those who are least able to pay for that service. If you allow that system to be governed by the laws of the free market, it WILL NOT WORK.
If government funded health care is going to be an inefficient money pit, then how come every country that has it spends less money on health care than the U.S.? I’ve lived in a country with nationalized health care. This may surprise you, but the people there aren’t clamoring to get rid of it. In fact, they’re very glad they have it. And now that American companies, who need to insure their employees, are starting to feel the pain as well with how much it costs here, we’ll hopefully get closer to rejecting all this idiotic nonsense about socialized medicine that the health care and pharmaceutical industry eagerly wants us to buy into.
I hope when you get real sick, you are in Canada!
That’s the nicest thing anyone’s said to you on this board, Patrick.
Ask yourself, in your soci*alized medicine nirvana of Canada, how many NEW lifesaving drugs, therapies, procedures have been developed.
For that matter, has Canada EVER invented anything of significance?
Driving a Canadian car are you?
Washing your clothes, dishes in Canadian invented machines are you?
That furnace that keeps you all toasty, invented in Canada?
Well golly, gosh, gee whiz, they DID invent 5 pin bowling and the garbage bag.
Patrick: You just lost your mind on #173. Did you visit Andromeda for that post? Who in their right mind would drive 60 in a 25 unless it’s some drug infested city kid who parents voted for Gregore? Do you miss your M1A1 or M1A2 Abrams Tank?
Oh yes Patrick, you really convinced me that understand defensive medicine. No, the AMA needs to get rid of the quacks that can’t practice medicine and stop covering them up! They punish all doctors with higher insurance premiums for the few that screw up. My sister’s daughter was going to become a doctor, decided on law instead. Now a partner, able to practice before the SCOTUS. Better to make money than to lose it.
Do newspapers cover Dr. Ben Carson when he performs another life saving neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins to separate cranially attached twins? Hell No! But the first time he botches one, watch them flock like flies smelling crap on a democrap!
Just like the school system, the NEA and WEA needs to get rid of the quacks that can’t teach and stop giving them tenure! The school system would be more efficient and teacher pay would be assisted by merit pay for outstanding teaching. Hello Headdddllless Luuuuucy!
Why Jethro on #166 it’s so good to see you among the living again. When did you wake up from that self-induced drunken stupor? Did you finally identify your real parents yet? No real reply to the facts on Canada’s health system so you enter a new name to cover your tracks? Are you masquerading as donnageddon at night?
Cat: The best commentary on MSM Newspapers yet!
Pudster
The last time we let the free market work we had the 1929 market crash. No one really wants free markets any more. If you did you’d support unions. Why should one half of the industrial machine have no say in how it’s run, especially when their union pension funds own so much of it. Oh, I get it! Maybe some companies are not doing their best by their real owners. Maybe they don’t like this leverage that pension funds are learning to use? What do you think conservative geniuses?
I hope when you get real sick, you are in Canada!
Let me tell you, my spouse WAS sick in Canada: got off a plane from the Netherlands, traveling and spending the night through Toronto and was so desperately ill the hotel called an ambulance.
Not only made to wait for HOURS in the middle of the night, misdiangnosed, was given meds that not made the condition even worse, but our doc here told us could have resulted in death had it not been caught.
So please, be my guest, go on up and get great healthcare in Canada… but please don’t make decisions for your innocent children or dear old granny – you could -and probably will- kill them as a result.
Not only made to wait for HOURS in the middle of the night, misdiangnosed, was given meds that not made the condition even worse,
*Not only made to wait for HOURS in the middle of the night, misdiangnosed, was given meds that not ONLY made the condition even worse,
The last time we let the free market work we had the 1929 market crash-Comment by Jethro in Imadummy County— 6/2/05 @ 9:48 am
Have your own car Jethro? Forced to have one exactly like anyone elses?
Pick out a great stereo system for it, did you?
Mommy and Daddy own their own house?
Enjoying that computer you play on?
Was your last trip to Disneyland a blast?
Like your CherryCoke? Salt and Vinegar chips? Choosing your favorite fast food restaurant amongs dozens available?
Thank the free market economy kiddo.
And get back to US history class – learn a few things.
Ask yourself, in your soci*alized medicine nirvana of Canada, how many NEW lifesaving drugs, therapies, procedures have been developed.
For that matter, has Canada EVER invented anything of significance?
They’ve come up with a health care system that covers every citizen and STILL costs less per person than ours (and their system is actually worse than most European systems). They also are able to provide all the lifesaving drugs that we have for only a fraction of what they cost here (I’m sure you’re aware of how many Americans get their prescription drugs up there). And yeah, it’s real hard for a Canadian doctor to find out about new therapies and procedures created in the U.S.
And by the way, the work that’s being done in South Korea right now on stem cells is running circles around anything being done in the U.S. Thanks W! Hell, even Cuba is producing some very significant advancements in anti-Cancer and other treatments. Cuba!
Driving a Canadian car are you?
Actually, the parts for most American-made cars are made in Canada, and $46.5 billion of American-sold vehicles are manufactured in Canada. Why? Because it’s cheaper for cash-strapped companies like GM to hire workers in Canada who don’t come with that extra huge price tag for providing health insurance.
Washing your clothes, dishes in Canadian invented machines are you?
That furnace that keeps you all toasty, invented in Canada?
Gee, I didn’t realize a country 1/10th the size of the United States should be ridiculed for not having invented everything. Are the talking hamburgers in your fantasy world telling you anything else you’d like to share?
Have your own car Jethro? Forced to have one exactly like anyone elses?
In what country with Socialized medicine is this true?
Thank the free market economy kiddo.
Are you saying that Canada doesn’t have a free market for goods? Are you the stupidest person on earth?
Idiocy @ 180
If you don’t think you could find examples like that in the U.S. you are truly delusional.
Dear thehim, read his post – learn something – maybe, just maybe, you will actually see that good ol’ Jethro said absolutely NOTHING about Canada’s soci*lized medicine.
Can you typical libs JUST ONCE get through 5 min, 1 post, 1 discussion about anything at all without insults or swearing?
Come on girls – give it a try – 24 hours with no “F you”, no insults… I’d bet good money that you couldn’t do it, but also that you wouldn’t even be willing to try.
That’s what we’re talking about here though. The free market is a great vehicle for driving progress and innovation, but it’s a terrible vehicle for providing certain necessary social services that a government MUST provide. It is not profitable to treat someone for cancer. It is more economically efficient to let them die. To apply free market ideals to the process of caring for people ends up with a system that does not work.
We are the only industrialized country without some form of nationalized health care. And we STILL pay more per person than any other country. How much more inefficient could our system possibly be. And there is no evidence anywhere (and in fact, statistics on infant mortality and other basic health care functions back this up) to show that our system is better than any of those other country’s.
My last comment disappeared into a black hole becuase it had too many links, but basically, there’s volumes of information about how American companies are now losing out to countries in the rest of the first world because providing health care to their employees COSTS TOO MUCH.
And as for innovation, the South Koreans are running circles around anyone in the U.S. right now when it comes to stem cell treatments. And even fucking Cuba (yes, Cuba!) has been developing advanced anti-cancer treatments that will be soon available in Europe (and Cuba’s infant mortality rate is still actually better than ours). How bad is our system when Cuba is beating us?
Patrick@140
Did you read the accompanying reference I sent?
Can you typical libs JUST ONCE get through 5 min, 1 post, 1 discussion about anything at all without insults or swearing?
Stop being a moron, and the insults will stop. Your whining and bitching won’t help. People call you an idiot because…(drumroll please)…you’re a fucking idiot.
And by the way, just to remind you, your tag name is:
“Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs”
If you use that as your name, you automatically lose all ability to complain about people being uncivil with you. Act like an adult, and I’ll treat you like an adult. Act like a child, and I’ll treat you like a child.
Cat: I told you I thought Jethro was masquerading as donnageddon at night!!! Same thought patterns! Same worthless diatribe!
One of the families we talked with in Canada this past weekend talked about their grandson getting sick in a visit to Oregon. The father took the son to the emergency room, the admitting nurse saw he was really sick, admitted him, the emergency room doctor diagnosed his ailment, gave him shots, and he got better. Now the grandfather said they were all shocked at the bill of $700.00 but they were really happy the grandson was immediately taken care of. Sorry I didn’t ask about the reinbursement policies of Canada’s health system. I didn’t want to pry.
So yes we pay more for a free market, less goverment system, but you can get served. Also isn’t it law that public hospitals have to serve the poor who can’t pay? Isn’t that one of the reasons that California has a crisis with illegal aliens using their free hospital services?
Pudster
http://www.iacenter.org/medcuba.htm
“ Despite the recognized accomplishments and excellence of Cuba’s healthcare system, free to all Cubans and praised by UNICEF and the World Health Organization as a model for less-industrialized countries, Cuban medical professionals often have difficulty obtaining current medical research and information, which is integral in sustaining a viable healthcare sector. “
See that… as a model for LESS INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRIES?
I prefer not to have the best medical care of all thrid world countries…thanks though.
*third
Can you typical libs JUST ONCE get through 5 min, 1 post, 1 discussion about anything at all without insults or swearing?
ahhahahhahahahaahhahahaha *gasp* ahahhahahaaahahhahahaaa
Coming from you, mr. my-name-is-always-an-insult, thats just to rich!
Keep ’em coming!
See that… as a model for LESS INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRIES?
I prefer not to have the best medical care of all thrid world countries…thanks though.
Did I see that Cuba was the model? No. But I did point out two facts. One, they have lower infant mortality rates than we do. And two, they are doing some cutting edge cancer research (and other related biochemical research) that competes with the first world. Cuba has some very serious problems, but there’s no excuse for a country with the resources of the United States not to be 100x better.
PetLib–
We have a lot of Canadians visit our community. I have met plenty while fishing and crabbing. They all come here and so so their friends for anything serious….although admittedly they can afford to. I have heard story after story of personal experiences including one guy who said he waited for over 4 hours with no pain medication for a seriously broken leg.
Like I said previously, Canada is great if you have a slight cough or the sniffles….or slight constipation which wouldn’t help most of you UPTIGHT LEFTIST PINHEADS who are so full of shit because you are so uptight you can’t squeeze out even a little pooper! LIGHTEN UP! Stop living in a fucking dream world. Or…move to Canada!
Pud @ 192
More anecdotal evidence…yawn.
So yes we pay more for a free market, less goverment system, but you can get served.
Not if you don’t have insurance. And sometimes, even if you do, you can still lose your home and have to declare bankruptcy if the insurance company can find a way out of paying for everything. No other country has a system like that that does not provide a real safety net for people who were simply unlucky.
Also isn’t it law that public hospitals have to serve the poor who can’t pay? Isn’t that one of the reasons that California has a crisis with illegal aliens using their free hospital services?
Yes, that’s part of it. But that’s only for emergency services. Not for specialized care or other more structured treatments. How we deal with illegal immigrants is a tough situation. But we’re a couple layers of problems away from being able to solve that one.
I have heard story after story of personal experiences including one guy who said he waited for over 4 hours with no pain medication for a seriously broken leg.
Oh please, you don’t think you can hear stories like that in the U.S.? That’s nothing. Do you have any idea how many people die through accidents in American hospitals every year.
Anecdotal evidence is cheap. Economic statistics are not. We pay more (by far) per capita than any other first world country and we don’t get any higher quality. I’ll ask it again, if Canadians are so unhappy with their system, then how come no politician will dare say that he wants to change it?
but there’s no excuse for a country with the resources of the United States not to be 100x better. -Comment by thehim— 6/2/05 @ 10:30 am
And we ARE 100x better, hence the reason Saudi Princes, heads of state and billionaires from around the WORLD come here for health care.
And I gotta tell ya, if my child has leukemia (like the little boy next door), retinal blastoma (like the 2yr old girl in the cul de sac), bone cancer (like the 7yr old daughter of a teacher at my sons HS) Mulitple Sclerosis (like that same 7yr old bone cancer patients mother) prostate cancer patient (like my father and my neighbor), breast cancer patient (like 2 of my pals), or quadruple bypass patient (like my spouses colleague), I sure as hell wouldn’t head to a third world country for treatment.
And so you actually KNOW any Cubans?
Any that fled?
Any in the medical field?
I do.
My sons godmother (and her family) FLED Cuba.
My sons Godfathers law partner FLED Cuba
Her husbands family FLED Cuba.
A skiing pal is a retired orthopedic surgeon that FLED Cuba.
My sons law school buddy, his family FLED Cuba; his fiance’s family FLED Cuba.
Take a trip down to Tampa or Miami, find yourself a blog, TALK to some Cubans that left everything behind and FLED because Cuba is just so darn wonderful.
I’ll ask it again, if Canadians are so unhappy with their system, then how come no politician will dare say that he wants to change it? Comment by thehim— 6/2/05 @ 10:43 am
FOLLOW THE MONEY.
And I suggest you do a bit of research about politics in Canada:
“ Canada’s Liberal Government Likely to Fall on May 18 – Election in Late June OTTAWA, May 5, 2005 – The latest information from Parliament Hill suggests a non-confidence vote will bring down Canada’s Liberal Government on May 18. While the Liberals attempted to have a finance committee motion calling on the government to resign called out of order, House Speaker Peter Milliken refused and a vote on the motion is scheduled for May 18. The motion, if passed, will result in an election in late June. “
They make our whining politicians look like campers holding hands and singing Kumbaya
Are the conservatives campaigning to move to an American system? NO.
Sorry kiddo, Soci*lism has failed each and every time it has been tried.
Please feel free to collectively banging your heads against that wall though.
*keep collectively…
re# 182: I’d gladly give up my salt and vinegar chips and all those other things you mentioned if it meant that every child in this world grew up well-fed and had decent medical care. This is not impossible. But it’s not conservative blowhards that make it impossible. It’s the inability of many people to see where their true interests lie. The story in yesterday’s paper about Airbus and Boeing suing each other because they each claim the other gets too much government welfare for there to be fair competition blew right over you heads. That’s O.K. by you for Boeing to get government welfare. But if the 14 year old kid of a crack mother can’t get enough food or any medical attention, well, he should just take a little “personal responsibility” because the money that was for him is going to Boeing. And then tou guys cry like girlie boys when we call you stupid fuckers. Because you are.
Cat, they wouldn’t know emigre if he ran into them. Most of their friends are in Fremont. Or Capital Hill. Or Alki Point. Or Queen Anne Hill. Or Ron Sims neighborhood.
On a lighter point:
A husband and wife are waiting at the bus stop with their nine children. A blind man joins them after a few minutes.
When the bus arrives, they find it overloaded and
only the wife and the nine kids are able to fit onto the bus.
So the husband and the blind man decide to walk.
After a while, the husband gets irritated by the
ticking of the stick of the blind man as he taps it on the sidewalk, and says to him,
“Why don’t you put a piece of rubber at the end of your stick?
That ticking sound is driving me crazy.”
The blind man replies, “If you would’ve put a rubber at the end of YOUR stick, we’d be riding the bus, so shut the hell up.”
Pudster
No, the Momma should take personal responsibility.
You whiners want to constantly say “we screwed up now we demand someone take care of our mess” … and we know that’s you Lucy.
Don’t want to pay for children you can’t afford – don’t get pregnant – THAT’S A PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY CHOICE
Don’t want to be on welfare – don’t do drugs – THAT’S A PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY CHOICE
Don’t want to be on welfare – don’t screw off in school – THAT’S A PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY CHOICE
Stop being a damned victim – THAT’S A PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY CHOICE TOO
Sorry kiddo, Soci*lism has failed each and every time it has been tried.
Please feel free to collectively banging your heads against that wall though.
LOL! OK, keep telling yourself that. The bottom line is that the more socialist systems in the rest of the world are more efficient and less costly than America’s system. And the quality of health care is just the same. You can stick your head in the sand all you want, but you’re still wrong, and I’m still laughing at you.
Don’t want to be on welfare – don’t do drugs
Do you think most people who do drugs end up of welfare? Do you seriously believe that?
And for the Soci*lism is best set a nice little fairy tale for you from Marilyn Barnewall…
“
A fairy tale helps me illustrate why socialism and capitalism do not mix. It’s a story about Jack and Jenny.
Once upon a time, a young couple fell in love and got married. Their names were Jack and Jenny… and soon Jeffrey and Jane were names added to the household. Jack worked hard at a small business he had started while Jenny stayed home to care for the children.
One day, while Jenny was planting tulip bulbs, some grains of wheat appeared. Jack and Jenny did not have a very big back yard and so she called her neighbors and suggested that they plant the wheat in all of their yards to make bread and other treats.
“Who will help me plant it?” Jenny asked.
“Not me,” said the neighbor to the North.
“Not me,” said the neighbor to the South.
“Not me, either,” said the neighbor to the East.
“I can’t,” said the neighbor to the West.
And that is how Jenny and Jack decided to buy a small plot of land nearby to plant their own garden of wheat. The wheat grew tall and golden and beautiful. When it was time to harvest the crop, Jenny once again asked for help.
“Who will help me reap my harvest?” she asked.
“Not in my job description,” said the neighbor to the North.
“I’ve got a date at the track,” said the neighbor to the South.
“I’d lose my seniority,” said the neighbor to the East.
“I’d lose my unemployment benefits,” said the neighbor to the West.
Jenny and Jack complained a bit, but decided they could harvest the wheat by themselves. For Jack, it meant working almost two full-time jobs.
Soon, it was soon time to bake the bread and cakes from the harvested wheat. Jack and Jenny once again asked for help.
“Who will help me bake the bread and cakes?” she asked.
The neighbor to the North had an overtime problem. The neighbor to the South said she’d lose her welfare benefits if she worked at a job. The neighbor to the South had dropped out of school and never learned to bake. The neighbor to the West rightly noted that if he was the only worker, it would be discrimination.
And that is how Jenny ended up working long, hard hours in a hot kitchen. Jack helped after putting in a long day at his shop, but Jenny did most of the work. She got fifty loaves of bread and a dozen small cakes from her harvest. Jack and Jenny proudly showed their bounty to their neighbors.
All four demanded a share of her bread and cakes. Jack and Jenny thought of all their hard work and the risks taken with their investment into the small plot of land and were insulted. They refused.
“Excess profits!” came the cry from the North.
“Capitalist pig!” was the shout from the South.
From the East came an offended look for Jack and Jenny’s hate speech accompanied by a word like “Hummmph!”
“You’re violating my civil rights,” shouted the neighbor to the West.
Jack’s and Jenny’s neighbors painted protest signs and marched around their home, shouting insults. It did not take long for a government agent and the media to arrive.
“You must not be so greedy,” chastised the government agent.
Jack and Jenny protested that they had earned the right to the profits from their bread and cakes. No one listened. After all, if one person had cakes and bread, everyone should have them.
“Of course you did the work,” said the agent. “But out of consideration for the under-employed and the unemployed, productive workers must divide the fruits of their labor with their neighbors.”
Seeing the lay of the land, Jack and Jenny thought about it for a long time. They finally expressed their gratitude for the lesson in social responsibility.
Their neighbors, however, were very disappointed. Jack and Jenny never grew a crop and harvested it or baked bread and cakes again. They joined the “neighborhood party” and got their bread free.
And that is why socialist policies do not work in capitalist economies.
Capitalism functions by giving all people equal opportunity. Socialism functions by trying to make all people equal, regardless of risks taken or the contributions of each.
Capitalism says, “what you earn you keep.” Socialism says, “those who have must give to those who do not have.”
Charity is one thing. Stupidity is something totally different. “
***
Oh, and who is Marilyn Barnewell, you ask?
Marilyn Barnewall, in 1978, was the first female to be named vice president in charge of a major loan and deposit portfolio at Denver’s largest bank. She started the nation’s first private bank, resigned to start her own firm and consulted for banks of all sizes in America and other countries. In June 1992, Forbes dubbed Barnewall “the dean of American private banking.” Author of several banking texts, she has written extensively for the American Banker, Bank Marketing Magazine, and was U.S. consulting editor for Private Banker International (Lafferty Publications, London/Dublin). Article originally appeared in the Grand Junction Free Press.
And for the Soci*lism is best set a nice little fairy tale for you from Marilyn Barnewall…
“
A fairy tale helps me illustrate why soci*lism and capitalism do not mix. It’s a story about Jack and Jenny.
Once upon a time, a young couple fell in love and got married. Their names were Jack and Jenny… and soon Jeffrey and Jane were names added to the household. Jack worked hard at a small business he had started while Jenny stayed home to care for the children.
One day, while Jenny was planting tulip bulbs, some grains of wheat appeared. Jack and Jenny did not have a very big back yard and so she called her neighbors and suggested that they plant the wheat in all of their yards to make bread and other treats.
“Who will help me plant it?” Jenny asked.
“Not me,” said the neighbor to the North.
“Not me,” said the neighbor to the South.
“Not me, either,” said the neighbor to the East.
“I can’t,” said the neighbor to the West.
And that is how Jenny and Jack decided to buy a small plot of land nearby to plant their own garden of wheat. The wheat grew tall and golden and beautiful. When it was time to harvest the crop, Jenny once again asked for help.
“Who will help me reap my harvest?” she asked.
“Not in my job description,” said the neighbor to the North.
“I’ve got a date at the track,” said the neighbor to the South.
“I’d lose my seniority,” said the neighbor to the East.
“I’d lose my unemployment benefits,” said the neighbor to the West.
Jenny and Jack complained a bit, but decided they could harvest the wheat by themselves. For Jack, it meant working almost two full-time jobs.
Soon, it was soon time to bake the bread and cakes from the harvested wheat. Jack and Jenny once again asked for help.
“Who will help me bake the bread and cakes?” she asked.
The neighbor to the North had an overtime problem. The neighbor to the South said she’d lose her welfare benefits if she worked at a job. The neighbor to the South had dropped out of school and never learned to bake. The neighbor to the West rightly noted that if he was the only worker, it would be discrimination.
And that is how Jenny ended up working long, hard hours in a hot kitchen. Jack helped after putting in a long day at his shop, but Jenny did most of the work. She got fifty loaves of bread and a dozen small cakes from her harvest. Jack and Jenny proudly showed their bounty to their neighbors.
All four demanded a share of her bread and cakes. Jack and Jenny thought of all their hard work and the risks taken with their investment into the small plot of land and were insulted. They refused.
“Excess profits!” came the cry from the North.
“Capitalist pig!” was the shout from the South.
From the East came an offended look for Jack and Jenny’s hate speech accompanied by a word like “Hummmph!”
“You’re violating my civil rights,” shouted the neighbor to the West.
Jack’s and Jenny’s neighbors painted protest signs and marched around their home, shouting insults. It did not take long for a government agent and the media to arrive.
“You must not be so greedy,” chastised the government agent.
Jack and Jenny protested that they had earned the right to the profits from their bread and cakes. No one listened. After all, if one person had cakes and bread, everyone should have them.
“Of course you did the work,” said the agent. “But out of consideration for the under-employed and the unemployed, productive workers must divide the fruits of their labor with their neighbors.”
Seeing the lay of the land, Jack and Jenny thought about it for a long time. They finally expressed their gratitude for the lesson in social responsibility.
Their neighbors, however, were very disappointed. Jack and Jenny never grew a crop and harvested it or baked bread and cakes again. They joined the “neighborhood party” and got their bread free.
And that is why soci*list policies do not work in capitalist economies.
Capitalism functions by giving all people equal opportunity. Soci*lism functions by trying to make all people equal, regardless of risks taken or the contributions of each.
Capitalism says, “what you earn you keep.” Soci*lism says, “those who have must give to those who do not have.”
Charity is one thing. Stupidity is something totally different. “
***
Oh, and who is Marilyn Barnewell, you ask?
Marilyn Barnewall, in 1978, was the first female to be named vice president in charge of a major loan and deposit portfolio at Denver’s largest bank. She started the nation’s first private bank, resigned to start her own firm and consulted for banks of all sizes in America and other countries. In June 1992, Forbes dubbed Barnewall “the dean of American private banking.” Author of several banking texts, she has written extensively for the American Banker, Bank Marketing Magazine, and was U.S. consulting editor for Private Banker International (Lafferty Publications, London/Dublin). Article originally appeared in the Grand Junction Free Press.
And we ARE 100x better, hence the reason Saudi Princes, heads of state and billionaires from around the WORLD come here for health care.
And they go to France, England, Sweden, Germany, Japan, and other first world countries with socialized medicine as well.
And so you actually KNOW any Cubans?
Any that fled?
Any in the medical field?
I do.
My sons godmother (and her family) FLED Cuba.
My sons Godfathers law partner FLED Cuba
Her husbands family FLED Cuba.
A skiing pal is a retired orthopedic surgeon that FLED Cuba.
My sons law school buddy, his family FLED Cuba; his fiance’s family FLED Cuba.
Take a trip down to Tampa or Miami, find yourself a blog, TALK to some Cubans that left everything behind and FLED because Cuba is just so darn wonderful.
Wow, you really are the dumbest person on earth. I did not argue that Castro’s government is ideal. I brought up Cuba to make two points (both of which went sailing clear over your brainless head): 1) technical innovation can still occur in even the most socialized system -AND- 2) it’s a disgrace that a country with the resources and brainpower of the United States lags behind Cuba when it comes to infant mortality.
If I were born in Cuba, I’d be trying to get out too. That’s not the point. The point is that socialism and capitalism both become inefficient at their extremes. European countries and Canada (and Japan and South Korea) have all done a better job of keeping the capitalist excesses in check that have made our health care system one of the most inefficient in the world.
Well, this blog has now eaten 4 of my comments, I’m out for the day…
Do you think most people who do drugs end up of welfare? Do you seriously believe that?
Comment by thehim— 6/2/05 @ 11:28 am
Yep, I do… unless their name is Oliver Stone… then they are celebrated and make even more money.
You cannot penetrate the thick callous of ignorance on a Republican brain. They view the world through about ten well- worn mottos. “Personal Responsibility” is one of them. But if you suggest that the CEO of a corporate pig farm in W.Virginia that raised 50,000 pigs a year and poisoned a whole county by irresposibly creating a lake of pig shit the size of Lake Sammammish, then the motto is “Private Property Rights.” The private property rights of homeowners in the pig shit lake area? Oh no! It’s the private property rights of a corporation to create a poisonous lake of pigshit in the name of saving three cents a pound on you pork chops. But who gets to clean up the pigshit? The public. I’ve argued with idiots like this for years. Their obtuseness is impenetrable.
Cat, I just figured out Jethro. His mother is donnageddon, as the apple fell right onto the tree roots. He lives in King (imadummy) County. That’s code speak. Who is head man in imadummy county? Ron “Tax to the Max” Dims!!!
Another funny: A devoted wife had spent her lifetime taking care of her husband. Now he had been slipping in and out of a coma for several months, yet she stayed by his bedside every single day.
When he came to senses, he motioned for her to come near him. As she sat by him, he said, “You know what? You have been with me all through the bad times.
1.)When I got fired, you were there to support me.
2.)When my business failed, you were there.
3.)When I got shot, you were by my side.
4.)When we lost the house, you gave me support.
5.)When my health started failing, you were still by my side. You know what?”
“What dear?” She asks gently.
“I think you bring me bad luck.”
Pudster
Reply to 205
“Sorry kiddo, Soci*lism has failed each and every time it has been tried”
You’re sooooo right. For further details, see #207. Needless to say, corporate socialism is thriving under the neoCON administration. Where else but Rumsfeld’s Pentagon can you get $100 for a case of soda pop?
Time for more bad hemingway!
“It’s a shame,” she said.
“Yeah,” I said.
“It’s criminal,” she said.
“Yeah,” I said.
“This is the end of everything,” she said.
“I’m going to have another drink,” I said.
Hey I can do james joyce too do you guys want to see my james joyce?
Perhaps that’s your problem lucy – stop arguing get off your ass and go out and help a few people less fortuante than you.
I realize they may be more intelligent, but that’s a humiliation you’ll just have to swallow as the good little libderal you are.
Oh wait, actually giving a helping hand to those that need one would take away time from your blathering on about forcing others to be responsible for them.
So lucy, how many blood drives have you run? participated in? How many miles have you walked for MS or cancer?
How many Habitat for Humanity houses have you pounded a few nails in?
How many trips to 3rd world countries (or our own cities) to rebuild after floods, huricanes, tornadoes?
How many illiterate have you taught to read?
How many shoe boxes full of goodies have you contributed to indigent children across the world through programs like Samaritans Purse?
How much do you donate to Goodwill (and no Lucy, shopping there is NOT donating, dear)?
How many homeless have you bought meals for?
How many pairs of shoes, blamkets, winter coats have you donated?
How many Chritmas gifts for children in foster care
How many AIDS babies, cocaine addicted babies have you rocked at the Pediatric Interim Care Unit?
icantimaginewhatwasgoingthroughtheirheadswhentheygotupinfrontofthejudgeandsaidtheyweregoingtoprovefraudwhentheydidnthaveashredofevidenceimgoingtogooutsideandsmokeanothercigaretitsacloudydaylookslikeitsgoingtorainwhydidievercometothisfuckeduponehorsetowninchelancountyinthefirstplaceohyesnowirememberimajournalistyeahitlookslikeitsgoingtorain
huh? where did the rest of it go? guess goldy’s spam fillter deosn’t like long words
None
None
None
None
None
None
None
None
None
None
None
and None
Because our little Lucy simply likes to hear herself talk and sing “It’s all about ME”
Ouch Lucy, now I understand the Seattle School Budget Crisis. Is that what you teach in Seattle Schools every day for 180 or so days? No wonder the district loses 500 students on average per year, every year. Teachers like you pollute their minds. Parents get fed up and leave!!!
Keep on teaching Lucy. Your written word says so much about your spoken word!!!
Ooops… What are the other nine well worn mottos again?
Here are some from your side of the aisle.
1.) Vote for us: It takes a child to burn down the village
2.) Vote for us: Where robbing Peter to pay Paul will get you the vote of Paul (assuming he can punch the right chad)
3.) Vote for us: Equality for All, and More than Equality for Us
4.) Vote for us: Caretakers of the Public Teat
5.) Vote for us: We never met a tax we didn’t like.
6.) Vote for us: We do everything for the children, including aborting them.
7.) Vote for us: Because You’re Too Stupid to Think For Yourselves.
8.) Vote for us: We just want control over every aspect of human thought and endeavor.
9.) Vote for us: From Camelot to Sodom & Gomorrah in only 35 years. Can you do it faster?
10.) Vote for us: Vote early & often
11.) Vote for us: What happens when people realize they can vote themselves money from the US Treasury.
12.) Vote for us: Enfranchising dead people since the 1870s.
Pudster
Soooooo how do you guys think all of this is going to turn out? the trail and judge bridges I mean
I say rossy looses …..
Isn’t socialism when CEO’s take from stockholders and give to themselfs?
I don’t know Priscilla, I really don’t.
It’s pretty clear we are all watching the same thing but seeing it through the prism of our own hopes.
I do agree with whomever said that even if the dems win the case, they still lose in the long run. When I’ve watched the last few days it seems like every dem question asked of every dem witness tried to lay the blame for the election debacle on the poll workers and/or voters. That’s not the way to engender loyalty from anyone.
Hey! Here’s a good one: A monkey swings down from the rafters in a bar and starts stirring Puddybud’s drink with his dick…….
There’s no punchline. It’s funny enough the way it is!
Cat: You forgot these
Lucy:
Ever fed the hungry at the downtown mission?
Do you support children overseas with a check every month?
Ever contributed to those who travel overseas to build houses or churches in needy countries because you were out of town working?
Did you contribute money to the Tsumani victims
Did you house homeless people for a weekend?
Did you purchase a hotel room for three days for of out of town travellers who had car trouble?
Did you open your wallet to visitors at church (ooops… do you attend church? when they ask for money?
Deliver clothes or food to poor families?
Did you ask if you could adopt a parentless tsunami victim?
Do you contribute monthly to Save the Children, International Childrens Care, or other Disaster Relief Agencies?
I doubt it? And we hear so much about liberal compassion. When you walked a mile in my shoes then you can condemn me!!!
Cat: Franklyn Graham is doing a wonderful work with Samaritan’s Purse. I tear up every time I see his Christmas videos! We provided 6 shoeboxes last year.
But we’re part of the vast right wing callous conspiracy. We just let our deeds do the talking. What talking does your deeds do Headless one?
Pudster
Hey Lucy, apparently you know little about monkeys. Research it.
Pudster
The best part is the monkey is Puddybud’s cousin! If you dont beleive me ask Charles Darwin!
I wondered why you drank it . Apparently you’d already done the research.
Lucy, can’t you answer Cat and my questions? ;) Because you don’t have a caring bone in your body. :( It’s all me, me, me; never any them, them, them is it? We contribute to society in many ways :P and you pollute society, right in the Seattle School classroom. Did you get you masters in assininity? :P
Priscilla – You are a perfect representation of that non-Biblical theory of evolution. You must have simian relatives. Or you are a charter member of the Simain Society of America: http://www.simiansociety.org, because you seem to speak as an expert (has been drip under pressure) on monkey topics. Do you know Jane Goodall?
Priscillas picture and bio can be found at: http://www.janegoodall.org/chi.....efault.asp :P
Pudster
Cat: What do you think? Should we add this to our charity list?
As a Chimpanzee Guardian you will receive:
A biography of your chimpanzee
A chimpanzee poster
A certificate of guardianship
Information about Gombe Stream Research Centre, the Sanctuary Program and the Jane Goodall Institute.
I’m wondering if we should help Priscilla find a good home, where she can write her poetry!!!
Pudster
Isn’t that Ann Colter in the picture? You know what they say, where theres an adam’s apple theres a banana.
Puddy–
Lucy works for the School District not as a teacher but as a professional toilet cleaner specializing in pubic hair removal and urinal biscuit eating. Lucy posts on government time using a government computer and government internet connection from a government office in a government building….and then Lucy complains that “the public” is often forced to pay for lake clean-up.
Lucy….if you weren’t so fucked in the head, I’d be happy for you. Be careful, those urinal biscuits have a lot of dangerous chemicals in ’em!!!!!
Puddybud and Cynical. I’m not talking about giving the poverty stricken a box of my old crap so that I can feel good–like you think is adequate. I’m talking about actually solving the problem. Forgive me for my skepticism about the “free market” doing anthing. Thef industrial revolution was some time ago and I’m just not seeing much in the way of serious effort in this direction from people who could really make a difference if they wanted.
And about the name calling business. Which conservative poster was it who was whining about his FEELINGS being hurt for Christs sake.
If Headless you are talking about me, I said I don’t take it seriously. In regards to those who say FU, I am trying to keep track of all them FUs.
I still await your wonderful display of compassion regarding the common man and how you spend your resources supporting them, while us vile Republicans send our monies to charities out of love.
Still waiting Headless. Now that school is out you surely can answer truthfully without the school firewall censorship!!!
Pudster
Pudster–
Lucy has once again exceeded the recommended daily quota of URINAL BISCUITS!
Damn Cynical, when I read your biscuits comments the wife wonders why I am laughing. Do they measure urinal biscuits for flavor, texture, vitamin content? Maybe Headless is watching the Michael Jackson trial.
Pudster
Lucy is the expert on urinal biscuits puddy….but a specialist on USED biscuits. Some kind of salt fetish I’m told.
As far as vitamin content goes…it all depends upon who used that particular urinal that day and what they ate….isn’t that right Lucy???
Lucy’s School District is investigate a missing truckload of baby-blue biscuits which just so happens to be her favorite. Mighty suspicious. Rumor has it she has been indoctrinating 1st graders into the fine art of biscuit munching….can never start ’em too young huh Lucy???
I don’t think Lucy knows that the City of Seattle now requires a permit for eating those urinal biscuits. Eating a biscuit without a permit is a $25 fine! Plus a weekend of latrine duty!
And back we go to soci*lized medicine with this little gem just today:
Great Moments in Soci*lized Medicine
“A New Brunswick man who told police that a friendly dog scuttled his plan for a bloody shooting rampage was sentenced Wednesday to a three-year prison term after admitting it was all a ploy to get life-saving surgery while in jail,” the Canadian Press reports from Toronto:
Ontario Court Justice Brent Knazan described James Stanson as a “manipulative, duplicitous, entitled con-man” who headed to east Toronto last June “to hatch a plan that would lead to his detention (and) the medical treatment he needed.”
“It is important that I give a sentence that denounces (Stanson’s) conduct and deters anyone else from doing the same,” Knazan said, rejecting the defence’s request for a sentence of one year, less a day, to be served in the community.
But Stanson’s plan worked; he did indeed get the heart operation he needed while he was in custody.
Self-righteous Europeans and Canadians love to call America “barbaric” for our private medical system and our refusal to abolish capital punishment–but at least we don’t sentence innocent people to death, as Canada’s medical system effectively does.
http://www.linksclinic.com/akvknlyih/ bagsdignityxeroxed
http://voyeur_girls.op-dhs.org.....marks.html currentmontgomerypause
bmw rulezzz!