It’s no secret: the working poor don’t have things easy. The Food Stamp Program, which has existed since the 1930’s, was enacted nationwide in the 1974 to supplement the diets of America’s poor. So, who gets food stamps:
The Food Stamp Program is targeted toward those most in need. Of all food stamp households in FY 2003 (the year for which the most recent detailed USDA data are available), 55 percent contain children; households with children receive 79.3 percent of all food stamp benefits. Roughly 18 percent of food stamp households contain an elderly person and 23 percent containa disabled person. Approximately 88 percent of food stamp households have gross incomes below the poverty line ($18,100 for a family of four in 2002). Approximately 38.4 percent of food stamp households have gross incomes at or below half of the poverty line.
The food stamp benefit translates to about 3 bucks a day, or 21 bucks a week. Though the program was meant only to supplement their nutrition needs, these days food stamps recipients are more likely to rely entirely on the program. As inflation eats away at the buying power of the minimum wage, the working poor are earning less. Things have to change.
Some in Congress are trying to bring light to this problem:
Today, four members of Congress conclude the Congressional Food Stamp Challenge, in which lawmakers chose to live “on three dollars of food per day, the same amount an average participant in the Food Stamp Program receives.”
One of the participants, Rep. Tim Ryan (D-OH), “stuck to the challenge” even as he traveled to speak at his alma mater’s commencement exercises, bringing along his “pasta and sauce, as well as the last of my jelly, peanut butter, and bread.”
But when Ryan had to go through airport security, things got dicey:
When I arrived I decided just to carry my bag on so I ran over to the security gate with my carry on. I step up to the metal detector, take my shoes off, place my bag through the scanner and come out the other side to the most dreaded words in travel, “Bag Check!”
As the agent sifted though my bag, I tried to recount what could possibly be in there that was threatening…my mouthwash? Toothpaste? Yeah, it was those two, but it was also my peanut butter and jelly.
He politely put the peanut butter and jelly to the side, closed my bag and gave it back to me. I was too astonished to talk. I took my bag and walked towards the gate thinking about the 4 or maybe 5 meals that she had taken from me. What am I going to do now? It’s not like I can just go to Safeway and grab another jar. I have .33 cents and a bag of cornmeal to last today and tomorrow.
A few congressfolks and the Governor of Oregon took the Food Stamp Challenge. Then again, millions of Americans take that challenge every day. Unlike these pols, it doesn’t end with a flank steak, red skin potatos, and a bottle of pinot noir.
UPDATE:
Many families do things like buy in bulk to keep costs down. This is impossible for most poor folks on a tight budget. Bulk is cheaper per person, but the upfront costs at the cash register make bulk buying impossible. Also, poor folks can get more food if they buy lower quality, hence the fatty ground beef versus the more expensive leaner beef. No wonder obesity is an epidemic for poor kids.
Will — the food stamp benefit for one person can be up to $152.00 per month, depending on income. That translates into $5.00 per day, as opposed to $3.00 per day. Believe it or not, a person really can eat on $5.00 per day.
https://fortress.wa.gov/dshs/f2ws03esaapps/extpolicy/bfcalc.htm
This is a tough issue. I grew up with foodstamps. I remember the stigma and the difficulties. But on the other hand it has made me appreciate the value of good food all the more. And moreover a food conscientious mother who was way ahead of the curve on the organic food trend. I remember early on my definition of “having arrived” was going to be the day that I could walk into a grocery store and buy anything I wanted without concern.
But the tradegy of America is our toxic food culture (chinese melamine aside). The obesity crisis that this nation faces is epidemic. I think the problems are only compounded by poverty. Good food is not always cheap. High fat, high sugar diets are so common because the industrial junk food is so cheap (although society doesn’t really account for the true cost e.g health care).
Our leaders would do good to encourage everybody to take this challenge. More awareness of the food issues that this nation faces is a good thing. Unfortunately, I think too many people associate the obesity problem with opulence and excessive wealth. But I think the root causes are in the industrial nature of our food supply and lowest common demoninator values of our food culture.
And if you haven’t seen it everyone should check out the monkey chow diaries. A funny experiment with food. This is what we will all be reduced to if we ignore the economics of our food supply.
@1 Are you kidding me?
5 dollars a day is crap. Sure you can live on lentils and rice for 5 bucks a day. And perhaps that is a good thing health wise. But but when you get right down to it 5 dollars is pretty meaningless in a city like Seattle.
I am sure it is possible to “subsist” on 5 dollars, but we should strive for more than mere subsistence.
High quality food whether you eat out or go to the grocery store is not cheap.
I’m glad they took the challenge, but until more do, it will be nothing but a publicity stunt.
Gordon:
While I agree that the figure is too low, Mr. Pope actually has a point.
The problem is that to do it takes menu planning and some cooking skills, which many food stamp recipients do not have the background to do.
Additionally, when we’re talking about people working full time at low paying jobs, many of them are simply not up for creative cooking at the end of the day.
Yes, when you start looking at $3.00 (or even $5.00) per person, per day, you get a rather dull semi-vegitarian diet (that will include a lot of rice) unless you can learn to be very creative with limited ingredients, but it can be done.
Example 1:
Breakfast: Rolled Oatmeal (discount brand), Juice.
Lunch: Sandwich (discount turkey balogna) piece of fruit, milk (in thermos).
Dinner: Stir fry veggies (with a bit of chicken) over rice, water.
Example 2:
Breakfast: Discount cold cereal with 1/3 cup fruit, milk
Lunch: Sandwich (good old peanut butter), piece of fruit, milk.
Dinner: Pasta with meat sauce (1/8 lb ground beef per serving), steamed veggies, water.
You’ll notice no coffee, beer, wine or soda on that menu, and the fruit and veggies will be whatever is on sale. No fast food or take out of any kind, and hopefully you can deal with leaving the parmisan cheese off the pasta.
It can be done. I’ve done it. It isn’t fun.
It doesn’t cost anything to eat the shit Goldy feeds ya!
This Blog sucks.
The posters are imbeciles…especially the whackjob who calls himself Roger Rabbit
DAY 3. 4?
PROOF FROM PUDDYBUD (URL) THAT I ACCEPTED A BULLSHIT CHALLENGE TO STAY AWAY FROM KOS OR MEDIA MATTERS.
PUDDY, DIDYA SEE HOW I SKEWERED DOOFUS OVER HIS BELOVED ACVR? AT THE END OF THE DAY IT WAS ALL RIGHT WING BULLSHIT.
JUST LIKE YOUR ABLE DANGER AND GORELICK WALL CRAP.
ROGER – 6 IS STRONG EVIDENCE THAT YOU’RE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT.
Let’s do an exercise in logic.
ABBA says everyone who posts on HA is a moron.
ABBA posts on HA.
Therefore, by his own estimation . . .
Will ..
This issue illustrates thye problems facing Edwards. Where is he on this issue?
You’ll notice no coffee, beer, wine or soda on that menu, and the fruit and veggies will be whatever is on sale. No fast food or take out of any kind, and hopefully you can deal with leaving the parmisan cheese off the pasta.
You say that like those are bad things.
Fast food? Puh-leeze. Nothing could be worse for your diet, even nominally healthy stuff like Subway sandwiches or McDonalds’ salads.
Coffee? Beer? Wine? Who needs those anyway? Well OK, coffee might be part of the average American diet. Someone else will have to speak to that. I never developed the habit.
Fruits and veggies on sale? Well, you’ll end up more likely to buy whatever’s in season around here, which is a good thing.
There are things you can do like baking your own bread (it can’t be that hard — I’ve done it), buying in-bulk-but-not-in-bulk by doing things like getting together with five friends and splitting a 50# bag of rice or flour. Never buy premade juice (if you do you’re paying premium for water — use your own water and buy frozen). Use the example of real Chinese cooking where meat is used more as a flavoring than a main ingredient. There are plenty of resouces on the web for stretching food dollars. Hillbilly Housewife is a good place to start.
I’m not saying it’s easy, and I’m not saying it doesn’t suck to try to feed a family on food stamps. I’ve done it. It sucks, and that was 15 years ago when food dollars went further. It’s gotta suck worse now. But I am saying that we could all do a better job of stretching food dollars. And I am saying that programs like food stamps need to take the realities of life at minimum wage into account. That includes nutrition and cooking education, because unless you know how to make a loaf of bread or how to price food, you’ll think meals have to be takeout pizza and high-fructose pop.
HERE’S WHERE PUDDYBUD TRACES HIS FAMILY BACK TO EUROPE IN THE 1700’S.
OH EXCUSE ME. MY BAD!
THAT WAS MWS!!!
LMAO!!!
ABBA’s correct: RR is a whck-job.
Oh, come now, Yer Killin Me. Expecting one of our wingnut trolls to use logic? Most of them couldn’t spell “logic”.
Anyone here that hasn’t tried subsisting on limited resources should give it a try. It is a wonderful excersize in empathy.
First, you have to leave behind the idea that “subsistance” is not acceptable. Lots of folks live at that level, and these are the folks that we’re trying to help with programs like food stamps.
Next, you might want to listen to those stories your grandparents told you about the old days. You remember, those stories where you rolled your eyes back and couldn’t wait for them to be over.
My in-laws were kids during the depression. They don’t throw anything away if it can be used again. They both worked full-time, raised four children and still found time to work a vegetable garden and can their own vegetables. Sometime I think my mother-in-law would save used kleenex, except that she doesn’t use kleenex, she uses a handkerchief.
(I used to think that I was thrifty, until I met her. Compared to her, I’m a positive wastrel.)
Actually subsisting on $3 per day both increases and decreases your tolerance of folks on food stamps. That seems contradictory, but really isn’t.
You learn a certain admiration for someone that can do it, and empathy for their situation. It makes you want to help them more.
You gain a bit of distain for people that take food stamps and buy frozen dinners, “lunchables” and snack food, then complain that there isn’t enough to feed a family.
In reading over Rep Ryan’s receipt, I noticed coffee, cottage cheese and strawberry preserves. Out of $21, more than half went for those three items. I doubt that he realized that he could have done far better, and that is one problem. If a college educated Congressman can’t manage to plan a week-long menu, how can we expect a working mom with a high school education to do it?
(Note to Congressman Ryan – $1.29 for a half-dozen Safeway eggs is pretty steep, and the two jars of strawberry preserves have almost no food value.)
$5 a day is what the religious right wants each person to contribute to their kingdom. I’d like to see that asswipe Pope eat on $5 a day.
As for the religious right – here’s a great article on their state of freefall…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18792074/
God I love it when righties get themselves all worked up over this shit. Of course these same Bible-thumpin religious nuts would just love to see poor black children starving on $3 or $5 or whatever it is.
Have you even stood in line behind someone at the grocery store who is using Food Stamps and taken a good look at what they are buying? Many times it’s poor choices and processed box dinners. But of course, they have the cash for cigarettes and beer. I often wonder where that money comes from. I mean, if they don’t have enough income to buy groceries, support their ever-growing families, or pay for medical services, how is that they have money for beer and cigarettes. Never mind the latest Nikes, iPods, leather purses, perfect manicures and all the rest.
Well, of course. We all know that people who receive public assistance are enriching themselves at our expense and getting wealthy by being on the public dole.
We need to rejoice that righteous people like you are here to educate us about these wastrels. Cut ’em all off, right?
Republicans don’t need to be contributing to the obviously thieving poor, we have our own prorities to support.
@ 10
This issue illustrates thye problems facing Edwards. Where is he on this issue?
John Edwards, as a very wealthy man who hasn’t ben poor since his youth, doesn’t face this problem. However, millions of Americans do face it daily.
However, Edwards favors increasing the benefit paid to the working poor. As long as they’re working.
Rae:
Oddly enough, I have stood in line behind folks using food stamps, and while their food choices may not have been the best, I saw no sign of those perfect manicures, Nike shoes, iPods, etc… (Lots of years living on military pay.)
If you want to suggest that we should encourage home economics classes for folks using food stamps, I’d agree, but considering the billions of dollars spent to convince folks that “lunchables” are actually food, and that “Capri Sun” is something healthy to drink, it’s difficult to condemn folks for making poor choices in groceries.
It’s difficult to budget food dollars when you’re buying the products we all see advertized to kids every Saturday morning, so at least part of the problem there is education rather than intent.
And considering that reasonably well-educated Congressmen have a difficult time planning a decent menu on $3.00 a day, it’s really no surprise that a working mom with a couple of kids has a hard time doing it.
As to your comments in general, they leave me feeling like you’ve probably never actually shopped in a store where anyone using food stamps is likely to shop.
And while Ms. Coulter and Mr. Limbaugh have certainly made comments along those lines, they haven’t actually shopped in any store where someone using food stamps would shop either. They hire undocumented immigrants as house staff to take care of such things for them.
John Edwards:
http://johnedwards.com/about/issues/poverty/
A National Goal: End Poverty Within 30 Years
National Press Club Policy Address
In a speech at the National Press Club, former Sen. John Edwards called poverty “the great moral issue of our time” and challenged our country to cut it by a third in a decade and end it within 30 years.
Decent, safe, and affordable housing near jobs and good schools is key to economic opportunity.
End Poverty by 2036: Edwards believes that ending poverty should be a goal our nation actively pursues. A national goal will rally support for the cause and help us measure our progress. In 1999, Tony Blair announced a 20-year goal to end child poverty in Great Britain and he has already reduced child poverty by 17 percent [Washington Post, 4/3/2006].
Cut poverty by one third within a decade, lifting 12 million Americans out of poverty by 2016.
End poverty within 30 years, lifting 37 million Americans out of poverty by 2036.
Creating A Working Society
Edwards has outlined a Working Society initiative to lift 12 million Americans out of poverty in a decade and beat poverty over the next 30 years. In the Working Society, everyone who is able to work hard will be expected to work and, in turn, be rewarded for it.
REWARDING WORK
Create 1 Million Stepping Stone Jobs for Workers Who Take Responsibility. Every American should have the chance to work their way out of poverty. However, some willing workers cannot find jobs because of the place they live, a lack of skills, experience, and references, or other obstacles like a criminal record. As much as 18 percent of former welfare recipients do not have a job. Edwards suggested creating 1 million temporary jobs over five years. The jobs would be reserved for individuals who cannot find other work after six months of looking, pay the minimum wage, and last up to 12 months. In return, workers must show up and work hard, stay off drugs, not commit any crimes, and pay child support. Studies have shown that these programs are successful moving people into permanent jobs. Jobs would be chosen carefully with local business and labor leaders to meet local needs without displacing existing workers. [Turner, Danziger and Seefeldt, 2006; Mathematica, 2002; CBPP, 1997; Ellwood and Welty, 1999]
Raise the Minimum Wage to at Least $7.50. For almost nine years, the federal minimum wage has stood at $5.15 an hour. Congressional pay has increased by more than $30,000 in that time. A full-time minimum-wage worker earns only about $900 a month and $10,700 a year. Today, Edwards proposed increasing the minimum wage to at least $7.50 an hour. The proposal would increase a full-time minimum-wage worker’s pay by $4,800 and benefit more than 15 million minimum and near-minimum wage workers. A $1 increase in the minimum wage has been estimated to lift nearly 900,000 people out of poverty. [CongressLink, 2006; EPI and CBPP, 2005; Census Bureau, 2006; EPI, undated; Sawhill and Thomas, 2001]
Create Opportunity in Rural America. Nearly 90 percent of America’s poorest counties are rural, and many have been hit hard by the struggles of the U.S. manufacturing and textile industries. Edwards believes in investing more in rural community colleges to strengthen “mid-skilled” industries and linking training to actual business needs. He also supports rural small business centers to build rural economies around homegrown businesses. [Rural Poverty Research Center, 2006; Center for the Study of Rural America, 2005]
Strengthen Labor Laws. Union workers earn 28 percent more than non-union workers, on average. Federal law promises workers the right to choose a union, but the law is poorly enforced, full of loopholes, and routinely violated by employers. Edwards supports the Employee Free Choice Act to give workers an effective, democratic choice over whether to form a union.
EXPANDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING
Establish a New Era at HUD. The federal Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) needs an overhaul to make housing policy a force for economic opportunity. Too many low-income families are segregated in high-poverty neighborhoods, cutting them off from jobs and good schools and creating areas of concentrated poverty that undermine other antipoverty programs. Edwards suggested creating one million new housing vouchers over five years to let low-income families choose to live in better neighborhoods. He believes that we should also expand the supply of affordable housing that is economically integrated with other communities. He also proposed coordinating housing policies across metropolitan areas, cutting HUD bureaucracy, and requiring recipients of new housing vouchers to work if they can.
Fight Predatory Lending. Home ownership promotes economic security and, for most families, is the top generator of wealth. However, predatory lenders use deceptive terms and abusive interest rates and fees to strip away families’ equity, reducing the amount of wealth they have saved in their homes and sometimes depriving them of their homes entirely. Edwards called for fair rules to protect homeowners.
HELPING FAMILIES SAVE
Help Low-Income Workers Save with “Work Bonds.” Edwards proposed a new tax credit to help low-income, working Americans save for the future. The credit would match wages to $500 per year and be directly deposited into a savings account. Edwards has also proposed expanding the Savers Credit to match the savings of low-income families.
Expand Access to Bank Accounts and Fight Abusive Payday Lending. An estimated 56 million Americans don’t have bank accounts, and they pay check cashers $8 billion for services most banks provide for free. Short-term payday loans regularly charge interest rates above 300 percent. Edwards suggested subsidizing bank accounts for working families and national rules to prevent abusive payday lending. [Center for Economic Progress, 2004]
STRENGTHENING EDUCATION
Expand College Opportunity: In Greene County, North Carolina, Edwards helped launch a College for Everyone program that is helping students attend college this fall. He has proposed a similar national program where students who agree to work part-time during their first year at a public college would get their tuition paid. Research has shown that the first year of college is the most difficult one, where additional student aid can make the greatest difference. [Dynarski, 1999; Census, 2005]
Create Second-Chance Schools for High School Dropouts: As many as one-third of all students drop out of school, and the rates are even worse for poor and minority students. Almost a third of dropouts between the ages of 25 and 34 live in poverty. Large majorities of recent dropouts regret their decision and now believe that a high school degree is the key to good jobs. Edwards believes that we should create second-chance schools, including some in evenings and at community colleges, to help former dropouts get back on track. [Civic Enterprises, 2006; Manhattan Institute, 2006; Urban Institute, 2001]
Strengthen Public Schools: Edwards suggested expanding access to preschool programs such as Head Start and North Carolina’s Smart Start, investing more in teacher pay and training to attract good teachers where we need them most, and strengthening high schools with smaller schools and a more challenging curriculum.
PROMOTING RESPONSIBLE FAMILIES
Encourage and Reward Responsibility from Fathers. Welfare reform required mothers to work and helps them find jobs, but it failed to touch poor fathers. It did not help fathers support their children and become valuable members of their family and their community. Edwards will require more fathers to help support their children and, in return, help them find work. He will reserve budget cuts in child support enforcement to increase collections by more than $8 billion over the next decade and ensure that payments benefit children.
Cut Taxes for Low-Income Workers. The Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) matches the first earnings of low-income workers. The credit is often used for household necessities and work expenses. It is also an effective tool for increasing labor force participation. The EITC already lifts more than 4 million people out of poverty, and expanding it could draw hundreds of thousands more Americans into the workforce and lift more than a million out of poverty. [CBPP, 2006; Sawhill and Thomas, 2001]
Triple the EITC for Adults without Children. Working adults without children are the only Americans living in poverty who pay income and payroll taxes. A single worker at the poverty line pays more than $800 in federal income and payroll taxes. Moreover, the EITC largely overlooks single men, who receive less than 2 percent of EITC benefits. Edwards supported tripling the maximum EITC for single adults to $1,236. This proposal will give 4 million low income workers a tax cut averaging $750, lifting workers out of poverty and drawing more men into the workforce. [CBPP, 2000 and 2006]
Reduce the Marriage Penalty for Struggling Families. Marriage is the foundation for strong, economically secure families, but the EITC penalizes married couples by up to $3,000. Edwards believes that we must cut the EITC marriage penalty. His proposal would reduce penalties on low-income families who choose to get married and cut taxes for 3 million couples by about $400 a year. [CBPP, 2006]
Fight Teen Pregnancy. Edwards believes we can build on recent partial success in reducing teen pregnancy. The U.S. still has one of the highest rates of teen pregnancy in the industrialized world. Edwards called for more support for struggling young people and investments in programs that help them beat the odds.
more..
http://johnedwards.com/about/i.....ngpoverty/
Publicans want to make sure we don’t allow abortions but when those babies grow up poor, Publicans are perfectly fine with them starving to death rather than seeing public money go to feed them. And to top it all off, Publicans are also perfectly fine with that money going to the war for oil in Iraq where people are getting killed every day. You have to admire the level of stupidity in a Publican brain.
Many families do things like buy in bulk to keep costs down. This is impossible for most poor folks on a tight budget. Bulk is cheaper per person, but the upfront costs at the cash register make bulk buying impossible.
Not true. You just have to do it right. A $10 bag of rice this week, a $10 bag of beans the next. You have to be a careful shopper to do it, watch sales like a hawk, never buy anything that isn’t on sale if you can avoid it, and hang out at places like Cash & Carry, which I like even better than Costco for some things.
Also, poor folks can get more food if they buy lower quality, hence the fatty ground beef versus the more expensive leaner beef. No wonder obesity is an epidemic for poor kids.
No argument there, hence my comment about using meat for flavoring rather than the main dish. You can get four hamburgers out of a pound of ground beef, or you can stretch it farther by adding it to spaghetti sauce as a flavoring. Especially, again, if you tank up on the fruits and veggies (much cheaper per pound than almost any meat worth eating) and don’t think you have to fill your plate with spaghetti and smother it with sauce. Heck, you might even be able to afford a little parmesan (even if it’s that substandard Kraft stuff that comes in the green cans).
@ 22
Even ten dollars for a bag of rice (that would be a big bag, right?) would zap almost half the budget for the week. That means just 11 bucks left to meet nutritional requirements (fruits, veggies and such). For those who use food stamps to supplement their diet, that would probably be ok, but for those who rely entirely in stamps, they’d be hurting.
As for Costco and Cash and Carry, the folks who did the “Food Stamp Challenge” did their food shopping only at stores that were accesible by transit. That would probably eliminate most warehouse shopping.
“The Food Stamp Program … was enacted … to supplement the diets of America’s poor.”
Actually, it wasn’t. It was enacted to help farmers. That’s why it’s always been administered by the Department of Agriculture, instead of by the Department of Health and Human Services which administers welfare programs.
If your only income is food stamps, the government expects you to turn into a rabbit and eat grass.
Unless you’re a lawyer. Struggling lawyers like Richard Pope are used to eating on $5 a day. You can still buy a box of Mac and Cheese for under a buck.
And ramen. Struggling lawyers like Richard Pope are used to eating ramen for lunch. All you need is an electric coffeemaker to heat water. You can still buy a package of ramen for under two bits.
Lawyers like Richard Pope who make less than $500 a month know all about living on mac-and-cheese and ramen lunches. That’s why Richard ran for port commissioner, a job that pays $500 a month. For him, it would have been a pay raise.
Picking on Richard Pope is easy and fun! Constructive, too!
@23 Will, you obviously don’t know much about eating on a budget. Pound-for-pound, rice costs 5 times as much as potatoes. That’s why all the Asians are skinny and all the Russians are fat (e.g., Sharanksy).
Even water is expensive today … if it’s Perrier. All Republicans ever do is bitch about the high price of Perrier.
Correction, they bitch about paying sales tax on Perrier. Listening to those guys, you’d swear taxes amount to 150% of the price of gasoline and 125% of the price of Perrier.
A Republican is someone who believes gasoline and Perrier would be free if it weren’t for taxes.
Will@23 To lend an historical perspective, and probably confuse the discussion. . .historically in Japan a Koku of rice was the measure of rice needed to feed one person for a year (approximately 150 kg. Approximate ‘cuz it was a volumetric measure). One Masu was the measure to feed a working man for one day. . .about six fluid oz. (volumetric). A little thin on the rations by today’s standards. You’d have little trouble with obesity sticking to this standard. More fun would be sticking to the modern usage of the little Koku boxes as they are used today. . .to drink sake.
If you are willing to settle for lower than premium rice, you can beat $1 a pound in bulk.
Well, like I said earlier, get creative with the budgets and think ahead. Sure, if you’re getting $21 a week in food stamps, $10 is almost half that. However, it more like works out to $84 a month, which makes $10 for an item that will provide you with meals 2-3 times a week for several months less of a burden. Plus, that $84 a month has got to be for one person. One person, I will admit, is not going to want 50# of rice laying around. They can get five or ten of their friends to chip in and divvy the bag up. Buying in bulk and splitting the savings is how PCC and other cooperatives got started. If you’ve got a family of four and are getting $336 a month in food stamps, suddenly $10 for a bag of rice sounds a lot more affordable. A lot better than paying $10 for four servings of Lunchables, wouldn’t you agree?
As for shopping on public transit, don’t you know that’s un-American? If you don’t have a car you don’t deserve to go shopping. (Oops, that’s my inner Republican talking.)
Oops, the sake boxes are masu.
27
Currently Top Ramen is 8/$1 over at HT Market on Aurora, just up the road from your hutch (verified Saturday when I bought $12 worth — the grandkids love it for an after school snack).
30
What are you talking about, Roger? I’m looking at Safeway’s web shopping page right now. They have rice for $.50-.60/lb in 5 or 10 pound bags, depending on whether you want Calrose or generic long grain. Tell me where you can buy potatoes for $.10/lb and I’ll go snarf up about a hundred pounds. Bakers hover around $.79 and even the workaday potatoes you use for mashing or stewing run upwards of $.39/lb depending on how much you buy at a time. The only way I know of to get them cheaper is to get them from my in-laws, who glean the ones that fall out of the harvesting machinery (they’re too big — these are Spudzillas) and bring them up from Idaho.
That’s OK, though, since you have a ready-made supply of salad greens I’m not expecting you to be up on the price of people food.
Roger is right, ‘taters are less expensive than rice. But they aren’t as versatile, and don’t have the keeping qualities.
They were the primary dietary element in Ireland until The Great Hunger, the phytophthera infestation.
It was said that with potatoes, buttermilk, and an occasional egg and a scrap of pork, an Irish family could stave off manutrition. ‘Course no one says this was a gourmet diet.
If you are at the bottom of the economic structure, then staples are your friend. The really homely technology worked out by various cultures over the years to maximize keeping quality, caloric content, and economic punch. Pasta, hardtack, ‘taters, rice, couscous and and orzo, groats and barley, etc.
It’s no surprise you that you can subvert some of these into ‘mood elevaters’ to leaven out the monotony. Potatoes for vodka, barley for beer and uisquabaugh. We get the word hooch courtesy from the liquid floating to the top of a barrel of sourdough.
You’re right, potatoes are in general less expensive than rice, just not five times less expensive.
One of the keys to eating on a budget is to vary your diet so you don’t get bored. We generally have rice, potatoes, rice sticks, barley and various kinds of pasta around (spaghetti, egg noodles, orzo, couscous, ziti, macaroni, etc.) around the house that we can use in soups, stews and casseroles, for instance.
Oh my goodness, Richard Pope, my SINCERE apologies for rubbing salt in an open wound! In another thread I said you should run for the Port Commissioner job and clean up that Port. Wasn’t being funny, I was serious. I haven’t been reading HA long and really had very little sense of you as a real person previously. @ HA I’ve been seriously impressed with your sense of honesty even while you keep getting teased and tormented.
After a comment made @ 28 by Roger Rabbit, I just now Googled and Oh My! I see that you DID run for Port Commissioner AGAINST Pat Davis herself in 2005, on a highly reasonable platform (as seen here at this link):
http://www.metrokc.gov/elections/ pamphlet/pamphlet.aspx?cid=16667&eid=1208
If it’s any consolation, I’m positive that I DID vote for you (probably the main reason I recognized your name from the past). Your platform better fit my thought process with regards to the Port direction needed & I’ve normally relied on Pamplet comments for those types of races. I’ve been wanting Davis voted OUT since the Good Will Games and the later WTO riots. Again, my apologies if it seemed otherwise. I wasn’t making sport here.
42: Proves my point Pat Davis and others are liberals on the Port Commission!
Point lost of the likes of Frogkissingman!
Sorry for being off topic, but here’s a “funny” from that same voter’s pamplet:
“Directs an Accessible Port: Pat’s policy of inclusion ensures public scrutiny and accountability. She fostered apprentice programs for women and minorities, domestic partner benefits, diversity in employment and minority business opportunities. As the first woman elected to the Port, she will remain our only female Commissioner.
Pat [Davis] is honored with endorsements by: Senator Patty Murray, Governor Christine Gregoire, Attorney General Rob McKenna, Senator Slade Gorton, Representative Ed Murray, Governor Gary Locke, Governor Dan Evans, Mayor Norm Rice, Bellevue Mayor Connie Marshall, SeaTac Mayor Frank Hansen, Tomio Moriguchi, Cliff Traisman, Bill Gates Sr., Bill Ruckleshaus, Association of Realtors, WPC, labor unions including ILWU Local #19, Machinists #751, Teamsters Joint Council #28 and Firefighters Local 1257.”
With all those high falluting endorsements, Mr. Pope was running an uphill battle. Wonder who of those people would endorse her again?
One thing fortunate about Seattle is that dried foods can last for many years without getting “buggy” (weevils) compared to other parts of the country. Back in 1989, my sister was an assistant bldg manager for Seattle Housing Resources Group (SHRG) that was taking over poorly run SHA properties. Hers was about 15 story bldg near the convention center area.
1st thing SHRG would do after taking over bldg mgmt, was to insist on spraying EVERY unit for cockroaches – all tenants reqd to be gone & no refusing. While having access, once inside each apt, they would ALSO do a thorough inspection – finding smoke detectors ripped out, an unbelievable number of units with NON-working stove tops & ovens, no heat. 1st order of business was to get those basic needs resolved.
One job my sister performed was to clean out apts when tenants moved. She would save canned foods left behind in a “stash” in her workshop. End of month, quite often various tenants would knock on her door asking for help, since she was approachable & kind. Maybe a week til welfare check, foodstamps gone, they still needed to feed their kids. Later she would quietly knock at their door with a bag of groceries & tell them how to mix this/that for a pot of goulosh or whatever. (Frankly, I’ve never been so proud of my sis as I was then – running her very own foodbank!!)
When coming to visit my own place, she would haul scads of bags with dried beans or lentils. We kids were raised poor, our folks had been teens during the Depression, Mom was a midwest farmer’s daughter. Mom made sure every one of us kids knew how to make a pot of beans, add a little meat or scrap bacon ends, onion, soak them and cook slow. Good protein that fills the belly.
Turned out they were from the Food Banks, endless pounds of beans and lentils tied up in clear plastic bags. When I asked Why the poor people weren’t eating them?, sis said very often they simply didn’t know HOW to cook them. We couldn’t send them back to the food bank, so she brought them to me. But that’s the deal, poor people often can’t cook cheap if they don’t know how or if their stove doesn’t work. I am NOT exaggerating when I tell you that I ate those beans for nearly five years! Frequently cooked up pots and took them to work where the crews enjoyed them for lunch.
Personally, I believe that if we ever have another Great Depression, there will be a LOT of people starving to death simply because they don’t have the skills that the older generations had.
John at 19:
Okay, I don’t stand behind food stamp shoppers every time I do my own grocery shopping, so how about this? In my job as an RN, I regularly help patients and their families move their belongings from room to room or help stow it in their rooms. So I am very privy to what they have and what the brand names are on those items. I also know if or not they have insurance and hence, if they are on public assistance. Believe me, some of those folks have better things than I do.
Rae:
Had you said that first, you might have some credibility, and certainly at least some folks on public assistance make poor buying choices. You could easily make that point, and I doubt that anyone could seriously disagree.
Watch the tv ads aimed at lower income folks, and you’ll see Rent-a-center advertising big screen tvs, computers and furniture advertised with “zero down, low monthly payments”, etc… I presume that those ads work, or the companies would stop running them.
As I said earlier, I lived in military towns for a lot of years, and even gave financial planning classes to junior enlisted folks. Good, hard working folks with some rather poor money management skills.
But that isn’t what you said. Not even close.
Assume, for the moment, that the “someone using Food Stamps” is a military family, or simply someone with a low paying job, struggling to make ends meet, then re-read your words.
They sound pretty ugly when you look at them that way, don’t they?
Add to that the facts that:
1) most of us wouldn’t know a second or knock-off from an original. Certainly I wouldn’t.
2) one relatively common job for a low-income mother needing flexible hours is a cosmetologist (who would get those “perfect manicures” free) The lady that does your hair probably doesn’t make a lot of money, but I bet her hair and nails look pretty good.
3) even folks on public assistance have a few luxuries. iPods aren’t all that expensive. Even financial planners emphasize that it’s important to budget for a few nice things. That iPod might well be the nicest thing those folks own.
4) not everyone that is on public assistance has always been on public assistance. Divorced mom might not be able to get deadbeat dad to pay child support, but the kids got to keep their nice Nikes, and dad sends expensive presents to buy the kid’s affections.
5) nice things are occasionally given as gifts. Even without the deadbeat mentioned above, other folks have been known to give nice presents. One of my fellow Lion’s Club members runs a local Christmas gift drive for foster kids. Many people have given iPods, Nikes, Nintendo DS, etc…
Your comments spoke first of food choices to which you had little knowledge. Then went to the assumption that food money was being spent on beer and cigarettes, (even knowing, as a nurse, that niccotine is more addictive than heroin) and finally mentioned the one thing you claim some personal knowledge of, the items they own, although you have no real knowledge of their circumstances.
Nor did you give the impression that you really cared what those circumstances are.
Not everyone on public assistance is some sort of saint. Many have made and are making poor choices, sometimes through ignorance, and yes, sometimes through personal weakness. That is one reason for the Food Stamp program. We can be reasonably sure that the assistance we’re giving is going towards actual necessities.
John at 47:
First of all, I stand by my reasoning that if one is on food stamps, no discretionary funds should be spent on beer or cigarettes. Thirty years ago I went to ask about getting food stamps (even though employed as a nurse, I was having trouble feeding my children), and was told that I made too much money. While I was waiting there to be told that, I saw some of the same people I did nursing care for, waiting to pick up their monthly dole, with new purses, new clothes, etc. I can spot a knockoff and I know good clothing construction also (years and years of sewing and examining high end clothing and accessories: I own nothing with a high-faluting label.)
And yes, you are right on this part, if they are having trouble, I am very jaded about money spent on beer and cigarettes, because if they have money for those items, then they have money for food, even if they make poor food choices.
Along with patient insurance coverage information, part of our admission interview includes occupation. So unless they lie to us, (which happens) we also know what patients do for a living, and whether or not they are currently employed.
I’ve no doubt some are in a temporary situation and have the will to correct the problem, but many have been so indoctrinated to think that someone else owes them an existence they have become incapable of doing anything else.
So much so, that if things in a hospital room are not literally bolted down, they will “disappear.” This includes TV’s, stereos, DVD players, even the little mattresses in the newborn infant cribs. We have to search patient belonging prior to discharge in order to keep hundreds and hundreds of baby blankets from walking out the door. Go to any thrift store and you’ll find items from hospitals. Ask any nurse and most likely they’ll have a story to tell that will back me up. Those of you who complain about the high cost of health care will be happy to know that this is part of the reason. These same people are the ones who get angry when we do not provide 3 meals a day for family members, and they are the first to file a complaint when the coffee is too hot or too cold. Never mind that they are getting free medical care.
Rae:
Honestly, I tend to agree that when a family is short on money, beer and cigarettes should be the first things out of the shopping cart. I’d add soda, candy and snacks to that list.
But I’m not willing to become the shopping police, and hopefully my decision making ability is at least up to par.
The whole point of giving assistance as Food Stamps is that we recognize that some folks are simply unwilling or unable to make good choices. If that were not the case, then we’d simply give all assistance as money.
In addition, we recognize that some of those Food Stamps were sold, often at a discount, to get money for drugs and alcohol. Because of that recognized problem, measures have been put into place to reduce or eliminate the temptation.
Remember that this discussion is regarding the Food Stamp program, which is specifically designed with the idea that some folks need strong guidance to make even reasonably good choices about how to spend money.
Many of the people on that program are decent folks that are simply going through bad times. Some are folks that have poor decision making skills, and a few are probably just leeches.
No matter how careful we are, some people devote considerable time and energy to abusing the system. I’m unwilling to deny help to the vast majority that are trying to use the system as it is intended, just to eliminate those few leeches. And while it is tempting to devote whatever resources are needed to deal with those few leeches, at a certain point we have to ask, are we willing to spend $100 to save $1.00? While from an ethical standpoint, I understand the thought, but it’s hardly a savings of tax dollars.
Look at the numbers at the top of this thread about who is receiving Food Stamps. Children, elderly and folks with disabilities. In the case of the kids, it’s easy to say “take them away”, but the fact is that we don’t have the capacity in the foster care system, and the overall cost of doing that is greater than the cost of assisting the parent. (Not to mention a whole lot of other reasons for not removing children from homes simply due to poor, but not malicious decisions made by parents.)
We also don’t have the ability to post a social worker with every one of them to make sure that they are using every dollar they have as we would want them to. It would cost far more to do that than we would even conceivably save, and I’m quite sure that I do not want the government taking that much control over any individual’s life.
So, we really can’t make people make good choices, and we aren’t willing to simply say “work or starve, not my problem”. (I suppose that you could, if you actually feel that way, but it would end this conversation, as we would not have sufficient “common ground” upon which to converse.)
But, we can channel assistance dollars in ways that make sure that at least the families have food (Food Stamps) and shelter (Section 8), regardless of whatever poor choices they make with the rest of their money.
rae….i drive by people in the city closest to me [it’s not much of a city…eureka] and it never ceases to amaze me how many of the bums [and that’s what they are, john] who are obviously able bodied [but just too damn entitled and lazy to work]are standing there with signs that say “help…need food” and they are wearing brand new adidas and wearing i-pods[do you think the i-pods are knockoffs john? you boob] listening to music while waiting for us suckers to give them their ‘daily bread’…
there are alot of families that need help…and i often think those families need that help because the dead beat fathers are standing on the street begging instead of working. it’s appalling.
there is a shortage of workers, the economy is going gangbusters and yet…we have more moochers on the street.
gee…i wonder why????
entitlement city………
and rae…don’t you love john-boys take on it?
“But I’m not willing to become the shopping police,”
oh, gag.
shoot…he’s not even willing to think for himself…..
So people like myself are disabled and unable to work. We do not enjoy living off the system any more than we enjoy trying to feed ourselves on $3 a day. More so places like Sams’ Club and Costco will not accept foodstamps so bulk purchases are hard, though it would make sense as it can stretch that food money.
Rae: Where do you live?! Here in rural PA, where there are a large number of families on food stamps, they sure aren’t wasting what money they do have on iPods or manicures or anything else. In most cases, they are working, tax-paying members of society.
And we’re not talking just minimum-wage earners. Currently, a family of four with less than $18,100/yr net income qualifies for at least a supplemental amount of Food Stamps. A single parent working 40 hours/wk at $8.00/hr makes a net $15,360. 40 hours/wk at $9/hr is a net $17,280.
And for all those suggesting the big bags of rice or beans – why does needing food stamps translate into “bland, dull, repetitive” meals? Would YOU want to have rice in 5 meals a week? It’s just another example of the “You’re poor, thus you must suffer” mentality.
It is possible to eat “well” on food stamps (meaning nutritous AND varied meals) but it requires planning – and an acceptance that you will not be eating steak and lobster, that chips and cookies and soda are occasional treats, and that you shouldn’t be exceeding 1500 calories a day. You also need to be a comparison shopper. Low-cost doesn’t always mean low quality, but some items aren’t worth the low price. The majority of my purchases were – and still are – made at discount stores like Aldi’s, but some things – like meat and produce – were bought at regular supermarkets because the quality was terrible.
Like others have said, the biggest change I’d like to see in the program is a limit on the number of ounces of snack foods and sodas one could purchase per month. Not a complete ban, as everyone does need the occasional snack. But there should be a limit – one that enforces the idea of “occasional” but allows them to be purchased for special occasions, like birthdays.
Even today, 8 years after going off Food Stamps, nothing compares to standing in line with my cart full of carefully-planned, nutritionally-sound purchases, and seeing someone else with half a cart of soda and snacks complaining about how little she could buy with Food Stamps.
My wife and I eat all our meals at home (I cook) and we spend about $5 per person per day (about $300 per month). I’m naturally frugal, so I tend to buy what’s on sale, but we eat very well. We have plenty of money, so we don’t really deny ourselves anything, and we eat meat and fresh veggies all the time. I even waste money on diet soda.
It just isn’t that hard if you buy what’s on sale and cook from scratch. For example, I can make a loaf of bread for under 50 cents. When flour is on sale, I stock up…you can get 25 lbs for $5. There’s no reason a poor person couldn’t do that. Today I made a huge batch of mexican rice that probably has about 2000 calories and cost maybe $2 and will provide a side dish for several meals. I got some strawberries for $1 per basket, so for the last few nights we’ve had strawberries and cream for desert. We don’t feel the least bit deprived and we are spending about what food stamps would pay us if we didn’t have any other income or assets.