King County Councilmember Raymond Shaw Reagan Dunn (R-Manchuria) sent a letter yesterday to Elections Director Dean Logan:
I am asking that you resign your post and give over the operation of your department to someone who will be better able to manage it, who will be more forthright in admitting mistakes, and who will have the trust and confidence of the people.
Hmmm. I nominate Shaw Dunn for the job. After all, his qualifications to be Elections Director are at least as impressive as his qualifications to sit on the county council, which last I checked consisted of the following extensive resume:
Shaw Dunn accuses Logan of mismanagement, but really… how the fuck would he know? As far as I can see, the only thing Shaw Dunn has ever managed, is to get appointed to a series of federal jobs on the strength of his mother’s political connections and reputation.
Yeah, I know… I know… I should show more respect for our elected officials… but oh wait… his mommy had him appointed to the King County Council too!
So Shaw Dunn, who has never run anything in his life (not even a campaign for the office he’s held for little more than a month,) is suddenly an expert at running county elections… you know, the way Daniel Snyder is an expert at running football teams. And like Snyder, Shaw’s Dunn’s first and only solution is to fire the coach, turning King County Elections into the bureaucratic equivalent of the Washington Redskins.
As Adams County Auditor Nancy McBroom told me, “it’s hard to wave your wand or twitch your nose and fix everything at one time.” But I guess it’s even harder to show a little patience when you’re accustomed to mommy giving you everything you want.
(Deep breath.)
I apologize for getting so personal (well… sort of) but I really find Shaw’s Dunn’s letter to be downright offensive, accusing Logan of a “cover-up” without ever alleging what exactly it is that Logan is trying to cover up. Shaw Dunn attacks Logan for not informing the council sooner about the “87” additional absentee ballots found by staff during a seven-day search through approximately 375 archival boxes of over 565,000 absentee envelopes, ignoring Logan’s explanation that he was waiting to release the information until after the search was completed.
“Otherwise, experience has shown that the story will indicate a number, and a follow-up story will claim the county was incomplete in its process and disclosure,” [Logan] said in an e-mail. “The public interest is best served by assuring an open, thorough and complete accounting. That will be done.”
As it turns out, there were 93 unopened absentee envelopes, not the 87 that Shaw Dunn prematurely alleged. And as predicted, the predictable folks over at (un)Sound Politics quickly ridiculed the changing numbers.
I’d say this is all the worst sort of political grandstanding, but that honor probably belongs to the other letter Dunn sent out yesterday… this one to U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, requesting a federal investigation of the 2004 election.
Whatever.
You can be sure he’ll get his investigation (you don’t think he’d have made the request public if mommy hadn’t already arranged it,) and I say bring it on. And when its all over, and the feds don’t find a scrap of evidence suggesting corruption, I’ll be the first one demanding that Shaw Dunn send another letter to Logan. An apology.
SPECIAL BONUS: Separated at birth?
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Dunn went to law school, so he can’t be very smart.
Considering that we are still “finding” ballots how many months after the election, an outside investigation by objective federal observers is entirely warranted. What are you afraid of? Accountability? Clean Elections? Fair and Free Democracy? Even in Ukraine, democracy can triumph. We just need to work a little harder here.
Obvioulsy, this is under Mommy’s direction. Councilman Dunn is trying to make a name for himself and has succeeded. Mommy probably said “You need to take a stand on something controversial so people will see you stand for something– and you’ll get your name in the paper.”
She’s extremely smart and smooth. She also picked an issue that has some Democratic support as well — she’s brilliant.
zapporo @ 2: Why don’t I remember you supporting that in Florida 2000?
See the Times article on the subject and make up your own mind and start spouting shit. (They are not exactly known as a bastion of Conservative politics):
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....an05m.html
Democratic council members were upset that Logan hadn’t informed them that some uncounted absentee ballots were found in boxes of empty ballot envelopes March 24.
In fact, about the only person publicly standing up for Logan yesterday was the man who has the power to fire him, County Executive Ron Sims.
Imagine that? The Rats are jumping off the burning ship!
Go Rossi!
Reagan Dunn is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.
They [the Seattle Times] are not exactly known as a bastion of Conservative politics.
Oh, yes they are.
Goldy:
I demand you take back your vile, slanderous insult to:
The Washington Redskins! (Sorry, born inside the Beltway – Redskins fan since I can remember.)
Wayne @ 7
I concur! Where’d you grow up? I live in Burke, VA.
Besides, the Skins now have God safely back in the coaching fold.
Dubyasux@1. Got a take on the findings? Margin of election error or a political plot of hide and seek? What is the explain away?
if you don’t like nepotism, how about getting the governor to can her husband? how many years do they doubledip?
Goldy, your taking it personally. I can tell because when you don’t like something that otherwise appears rational to many, that’s when you turn on the profanity fountain as an outlet for your frustration.
Check out the PI poll, it’s not scientific, but there are a lot of left leaning folks that read the PI and they are voting in the poll as well.
There’s nothing unusual about this letter. In the private sector, if an executive had been party to as many mistakes as Dean Logan has, and failed to disclose all of them in a timely manner, he/she would be asked to resign.
Why shouldn’t we hold our public officials to the same standard? Personally, I believe that some of the KC Elections workers have it out for Dean Logan and they stashed ballots to bring out later knowing that it would cause him great embarassment and hasten his demise. He often alludes to “cultural” problems within KC elections. But regardless, the buck stops with him. His failure to produce accurate readable reconciliation documents, the discovery of many mishandled ballots, etc. are all genuine mistakes that should be the responsibility of the chief of KC Elections.
I predict Dean takes the fall here folks, no matter how much Goldy swears and whines.
Jeff @ 11
What failure to produce accurate readable reconciliation documents are you talking about? The copy I got is legible and understandable, and I’m not aware of errors in them. Where are the errors you speak of?
As for “many” mishandled ballots–we’re still talking about 1200 or so total, out of 900,000, an accuracy rate banks would love to have, as has been shown.
The 537 and these 93 are definite mistakes, although the 537 were caught and processed. The 660 provisionals are somewhere in between.
What mistakes has he failed to report on in a timely manner?
TJ: so tell me ONE bank that thinks the King County elections error rate is acceptable? if there is one, it won’t be in business for long.
only a dummy like Sims would say such a thing. you don’t want to go there. take a mulligan on that one…
Goldy, your taking it personally. I can tell because when you don’t like something that otherwise appears rational to many, that’s when you turn on the profanity fountain as an outlet for your frustration.
This post had 577 words. One was a profanity. That’s a “profanity fountain”?
I’ll contribute one more: WTF?
Let’s try that again:
Goldy, your taking it personally. I can tell because when you don’t like something that otherwise appears rational to many, that’s when you turn on the profanity fountain as an outlet for your frustration.
This post had 577 words. One was a profanity. That’s a “profanity fountain”?
I’ll contribute one more: WTF?
zapporo @2,
As I wrote… bring it on! I’m not afraid of a federal investigation, I just think it is stupid and unwarranted. Unless the Attorney General’s office is now doing performance audits?
Jeff B @11,
I used one “how the fuck” in the entire piece. By my standards, not particularly a fountain of profanity. Councilman Shaw and his cohorts are implying Logan’s actions were criminal… I find that quite a bit more offensive than a single four-letter word.
Wayne @7, TJ@8,
Fly Eagles, Fly!
(Now I can understand you being a dreaded Redskin fan. But come on… you can’t tell me you’re a Daniel Snyder fan?)
zappora@2. Margin of error or corruption? Out of the two, corruption can not be tolerated. Proof being required in the latter. Corruption is not new to politics. Conflicting issues will pan out as we follow them and at this point all the cards are not on the table.
rush @ 13
the banking industry routinely reports an error rate of 2%. King’s is one-tenth of that.
There was nothing untimely about Logan’s release of information. It is an entirely valid decision to scope the problem before announcing it. Moreover, this is yet another example, a regrettable example admittedly, of something that happens in every single county to a greater or lesser extent. If you don’t believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell you.
It is pretty clear that the grandstand plays of the call for the feds to come in and for Logan’s resignation are the result of GOP panic that the public has moved on and has accepted Gregoire as governor. While the people at the core of the GOP challenge never have believed that they could overturn this election, they are now panicked that they don’t have the leverage they thought they had for the 2006 state legislative and senatorial elections and to hamstring Gregoire as governor.
OK, I get the fact that you don’t like Reagan Dunn, but what’s with all the ad hominems? If you disagree with his calling for Logan to resign then say so and make your case. It makes you appear whiny and juvenile with all the screeching about ‘mommy’ and the Manchurian Candidate references.
18 TJ: 2% ?? no way. Bank of America Chairman said last month that the goal is zero and they are near the goal. I am working from memory but I believe he said they were at 1 error per MILLION transactions. where do you get 2%? Sims/Logan ? I gave you a mulligan. you should have used it. you are digging deeper instead. one more chance… since I”m such a nice guy (although I never need mulligans myself…choke, choke).
docbenton@19. Valid point.
chunkstyle@20. State your case.
The problem I have about Dean Logan is that his office keeps lying about things, refusing to provide relevant information and only admitting mistakes when their lies are exposed.
Look at the following “Mail Ballot Report” — a reconciliation report of the total number of absentee ballots received, the total number counted, and the total number rejected by each category — which was prepared by King County Elections — I believe for the initial certification on November 2, 2004:
http://www.soundpolitics.com/MailBallotReport.pdf
The biggest lie on this document is that the numbers in all of the categories match up. However, we now find 93 additional ballots that are not included in item # 3 — the 564,222 ballots listed as being accepted as valid and counted.
If Dean Logan had really done any sort of honest reconciliation, he would have noticed that somewhere around 93 absentee ballots were missing from the count, since the numbers would not have balanced. I certainly would not expect him to come out with exactly 93 or any other exact number.
In fact, I would not expect a reconciliation report involved an (alleged) return of 568,333 absentee ballots to balance at all. But I would expect Dean Logan to be honest, and prepare a report in which each category was counted as accurately as reasonably possible, and in which he honestly admits that the numbers don’t balance — and in which the resulting apparent discrepancy number is honestly admitted as well.
Also, I believe the “Mail Ballot Report” was prepared for the November 17, 2004 initial certification. It shows 564,222 absentee ballots being counted.
However, for the machine recount on November 24, 2004, another 198 absentee ballots were counted, for a total of 564,420. If the numbers in the other categories were honest, and the report balances, where did these 198 extra ballots come from?
In the manual recount on December 23, 2004, another 28 absentee ballots were counted, for a total of 564,448 (this does not include the Larry Phillips “no signature on file ballots”). Again, if the numbers on the report balance exactly, how are the additional 28 ballots explained?
As for the “Larry Phillips” ballots, King County Elections did validate 566 of the absentee ballots previously rejected for signature mismatch, and added them to the total count on December 23, 2004. This would have been subtracted from the 1,561 in “Not Voter’s Signature”, resulting in a similar increase in the “Total number accepted as valid and counted”.
Basically, Dean Logan has prepared a series of reconciliation reports which show exact balancing of ballot categories, when it is obvious these numbers do not balance. Had Logan prepared honest reports, we would have seen that these numbers were off, and there would be been inquiries into the source of the problem. Even better, Logan would have done his own employees do this investigation immediately, rather waiting until months later when the problems became obvious to outsiders.
All in all, Dean Logan has shown total incompetency and dishonesty in handling this matter. Having such a large number of errors is bad enough. But Logan refuses to admit or address mistakes until he absolutely has to. He needs to go.
My bad, .2 percent. Missed the decimal. I was thinking of the national elections error rate tolerance, which is 2%. But I knew that King’s accuracy rate IS one a bank would envy.
You can read quotes from the banking industry here.
http://www.kirkdorffer.com/ont.....-bad.shtml
If Logan goes, McBroom’s gotta go too. After all, her error rate is several times Dean’s.
Good for Mr. Dunn,
At least one politician in our area has gotten his head out of his ass and is holding the public employees in this State accountable.
Logan should have been fired months ago.
TorridJoe,
See Richard’s comments @23. The reconciliation documents don’t add up. And they are hard to follow. Many of us have tried to figure out how KC comes up with the number of provisionals and absentees, and the numbers don’t add up. The point of reconciliation is to show that everything adds up. It’s fine that there were some errors, it is true that in any large process there are going to be errors. But, the key is that the auditing should show the total number of ballots and then the categories that they break into, including those that were in error. If one can’t make a complete accounting of the total number of ballots, then one has no way of knowing what the real results are.
If you guys are unwilling to admit that there are problems with the accounting of the election, then you are in denial. As for the mishandling of ballots, it happened. A good leader would have been much more forthcoming about what happened so as to appear proactive and concerned.
How many of you were at the Kent Totan hall meeting last week? I was there. I asked Dean Logan why he was simply not more forthcoming with information regarding the mistakes. His answer was typical, he meant well, etc. But as he answered my question, he already knew about the 93 ballots that were about to go public.
It’s pretty clear that the plan was to figure out what happened, and then let the public know. Imagine if Dean Logan was the director of a Nuclear Power plant and there was an accident. I can gaurantee you liberals would be screaming bloody murder if his plan was first to figure out what happened and then to tell the public that there was an accident.
The point is that leaders are accountable for the actions of the organizations that they lead. Whether you like it or not, Dean Logan should be held responsible for the mistakes that his organization made. And just so we are clear, the error rate is not comparable to that of any bank.
Ultimately it comes down to responsibility. Is that something that you folks are willing to accept, or is that the whole problem with your philosophy? Isn’t that the same kind of thinking that justifies all of the New Deal programs that you cherish? Isn’t the lack of personal responsibility what allows people to organize into unions simply to use that force to demand higher wages, even if the market cannot bear those costs?
But don’t believe me, check out the PI poll. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/ Apparently a lot of PI readers believe that Logan should be responsible for his organization’s mistakes.
Goldy,
Sometimes things are so obvious that even the untrained or inexperienced eye can see it. I won’t say “fraud” or “political manipulation,” but it is clear that Logan has tainted the office’s reputation and, to paraphrase the NCAA, shown a “lack of institutional control.”
TJ @ 8
Silver Spring, MD. Now I live in the other Washington.
Goldy @ 16
The main thing I don’t like about Snyder is not that he is a jerk or that he spends a lot of money, but that he spends it on the wrong players – a bunch of washed up veterans. Deion Sanders, what was he thinking? And I knew the Brunell trade and signing was a mistake from the start. Just when they get Joe Gibbs back, they are going to have cap problems. Nevertheless, I cannot turn my back on the Skins.
Jeff @ 27
When you say they don’t add up–don’t add up to what? Richard seems to be saying they DO add up, although for some unknown reason he finds fault with it. I also am not sure what you mean by “error.” What kind of error are you talking about? You also say they should be broken down by category–which they are, in my copy.
As for forthcoming–what could King have done to have been more “forthcoming?” They’ve gone WAY above and beyond what is expected of their office, in order to respond to all the witless requests from places like SP and the media.
Much as you may wish to conflate the two, Logan is NOT the Director of a nuclear energy plant. He is the elections director, for an election that’s long since over. I fail to understand the point of your comparison. You say he should be held responsible–he has been, as far as I can tell. He’s been called to Council multiple times, and has produced extra documentation to explain the couple of mistakes that have been made.
And just so we’re clear, the error rate IS comparable to any bank. It’s .2%, as we’ve established. King’s looks like less, actually–as far as they can be compared, anyway.
And don’t make me laugh about the PI internet poll. There’s nothing the least bit predictive about them.
Toridjoe….
Give me a friggin break.
Logan should have been sacked months ago.
On a good note, I would say it’s a fair bet that the democratic strangle hold on this City, County and State is about to change.
Come on Goldy,
Reagan was a federal prosecutor in Homeland Security, the man has his own credentials. He has tried terror cases. Yes, his mother was a powerful politician, but he is no dummy. It is apparent that you are more concerned with blowing smoke than seeing who started the fire. Is it of no concern to you that four months later they are still finding ballots. What a “model election”… You swung and missed on this one, you took the shot and didnt hit the rim…
prr @ 31
sacked for what, specifically?
and you must not have lived in Washington for long. WA is trending MORE Dem, not less.
TJ, we’ll see about that.
As to sacked for what?
How about incompetence? How about fraud?
Now I already know you are going to blather on about how there was no fraud. So let’s look at this for a moment. Let’s get beyond the election, the uproar etc…
Recently the King County Elections office did a follow up study on the past election. Complied the definitive “Elections Report” costing the taxpayers how much? A conservative estimate on man-hours alone into this report? Several hundred thousand dollars?
Then printed and mailed this “Official Document” as proof positive of their findings. I have one of these myself.
Now we find out that these results are bogus?
TJ, that is the definition of Fraud. Logan should be fired, his staff should be streamlined and if it is found out that he had advance knowledge that the white washed, cover up he mailed out to all of the tax payers was available to him prior to the mailing, he should be tried for all applicable charges.
how about incompetence? How about fraud? What evidence do you have of either? So far none has come out.
What results are you talking about that are bogus? You’ve lost me.
And even accepting your unsubstantiated allegation, that’s NOT the definition of fraud. There needs to be willful conduct–something no one, not even Republican lawmakers or Rossi himself, has asserted.
Keep thinking that TJ
And when Logan come back from his spur of the moment vacation, let’s see what happens, especially after another batch of ballots pops up.
Wanna bet he retires early and somehow gets a sweetheart retirement?
Who is Raymond Shaw?
prr @ 36
so when pressed for some evidence of incompetence and/or fraud, you give me…nothing? Compelling.
I don’t support the R effort to overturn the election — they need evidence of fraud, which isn’t there. And their initial insistence that Gregoire concede after the initial count shows up their hypocrisy. They’re not standing on any principle — they’re just using any trick in the book to win.
But it’s time we admit that Dean Logan sucks and has to go. What on earth can excuse more than one discovery of missed ballots? After the first time, anyone with a clue would’ve made sure every nook and cranny was searched and then re-searched by someone else.
If Ron Sims wants to tied himself to Logan, whatever. But the rest of us (the party) needs to admit the truth. Or the voters are going to think we’re just as pathetic as the Rs, willing to deny the truth to get our way.
Radish @ 39
You hit the nail on the head
…”it’s time we admit that Dean Logan sucks and has to go”.
…”the voters are going to think we’re just as pathetic as the Rs, willing to deny the truth to get our way”.
Your political leaders are willing to deny the truth, does it make you angry? If so, do something about it.
So he needs to go, but no one has any legitimate basis for calling for his ouster? I see.
TJ
page 16 of the Eelction reporrt, paragraph 12.
This is a document signed by Logan, in which he states
“Twenty absentee ballots and two provisional ballots were retrieved after certification”
This was information given to the public and is clearly false:
To help you out on your next two questions,
False:
Pronunciation Key (fôls)
adj. fals·er, fals·est
Contrary to fact or truth: false tales of bravery.
Deliberately untrue: delivered false testimony under oath.
Arising from mistaken ideas: false hopes of writing a successful novel.
Intentionally deceptive: a suitcase with a false bottom; false promises.
Not keeping faith; treacherous: a false friend. See Synonyms at faithless.
Not genuine or real: false teeth; false documents.
Erected temporarily, as for support during construction.
Resembling but not accurately or properly designated as such: a false thaw in January; the false dawn peculiar to the tropics.
Fraud:
Pronunciation Key (frôd)
n.
A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
A piece of trickery; a trick.
One that defrauds; a cheat.
One who assumes a false pose; an impostor
prr @ 42
uh, that’s not false, that’s TRUE. There WERE 22 ballots retrieved from balloting machines.
On what basis do you consider it false?
prr, jeff b. etc:
Logan’s .2% errors (matched or exceeded and kept pace by other counties) could have been easily made irrelevant if:
A bunch of lazy’s R’s got off their rear ends to vote in the election. Ironically, to join the D’s who were bamboozled into giving that sleazy Real Estate operator a shot.
What did you blatherer’s do to get out the vote for your side?
Rossi: vote for me. My campaign commercials look like Windemere spots.
Reagan Dunn: what an atrocity!
Jeff B.: the PI Poll!?! Congrats on a most excellent freeping by the (u)SP crowd.
Where does it say that Fraud or False is a basis to overturn this election. I thought they just needed to find 129 votes (in error/illegal/however) that would justify the difference of margin of victory…..
I am not sure they have done this, as the judge hasn’t ruled on how to apply/take away the votes from either canidate.
Logan is a scapegoat, plain and simple. KC Elections is scared, and he is the most obvious goat to get first. Mr. Sims should watch his flock, as he may turn into a goat real soon.
As far as Reagan Dunn is concerned, he has gonads. It doesnt matter who is mother is, he stands on his own quite well. I applaud his tact and being the first to step forward and take a stand on a really screwed up mess.
John @ 44
“A bunch of lazy’s R’s got off their rear ends to vote in the election. Ironically, to join the D’s who were bamboozled into giving that sleazy Real Estate operator a shot.”
Same could be said for the Dem’s. Except maybe their canidate had lost the state a few Million in a lawsuit that went unnoticed on her “watch”…Where were all the Democrats on Nov 2nd?????
Filling out a few extra provisional ballots??? Postmarking the 2nd or 3rd absentee ballot they received FROM KC election Dept?
Bluesky @37:
Raymond Shaw is the brainwashed assassin (controlled by his mother) in “The Manchurian Candidate”.
Maybe the King County Elections Report is the Queen of Hearts (see the movie if you don’t get this).
Goldy,
If you think Logan has done such a great job, then why have I heard that, privately, the Democrats on the County Council are very unhappy with him, and are on the verge of wanting to give him the boot? I thought Logan was brought on to clean up the mess from previous elections.
I agree with the radish @39: No fraud, but Logan has to go and Sims needs to clean house in Elections.
jon @ 48
privately? Their disapproval was in both accounts from the papers this morning. And the answer to the question is that they’re trying to cover their own asses politically.
Reagan Dunn is a REAL MANLY MAN – and you people bashing him because his Mom is his mom should SHUT UP.
The guy used be a Federal Prosector locking up felons…
OOPS, you guys want EVERRRRRYY vote to count – including the felon vote. Oh, how nice.
I guess the only places you can improve w/ nukes are the Arizona & Nevada Deserts – AND KING COUNTY GOV’T!!!
After rereading this drivel, I am now certain that King County needs a new direction.
And this blog SUCKS! Attacking a courageous man about to call a confidence vote in Dean Logan as he said on Carlson yesterday is the low of the low.
First calling my girlfriend a liar, now this. Geese, I wonder how fucked up beyond all recognition (FUBAR) this blog has became.
What part of the fact that Dean should have IMMEDIATELY advised the King County Council has escaped you people?!?
josef @ 51
why should he have immediately advised Council? What rule or law are you citing? Why is notifying the Asst. City Executive not enough? And why should he have advised them of an incomplete finding?
torridjoe @48:
I meant most (if not all the D’s) are not happy with Logan, but aren’t quite ready to call for his head, not just those quoted, but you are right.
torridjoe @ 52:
Politics 101: You don’t withhold damaging information from your elected leaders to the point that they have to read it in the newspaper. Geez, you wouldn’t do that in any job!
jon @ 54
what evidence is there that he withheld information from elected leaders? Isn’t Sims an elected leader?
ChrisN @ 47
Show me the proof Son. Show me the mug shots. Show me you’re not just riffing on your right wing fantasy!
No one said Chris Gregoire’s record was perfect. She wasn’t my first choice but I’d take her over a sleaze like Rossi and his people any day.
THIS MAKES BALLOTS FOUND
10 DIFFERENT TIMES
10 DIFFERENT LOCATIONS
WOW!! the never ending Easter egg hunt.
as a rabid republican, the truth is Logan’s damage has been done. I’m fine for leaving him in there to remind the voters what happened. then the democrats won’t whine that he did nothing wrong and we republicans can milk his existence longer.
what could be better: a Sims favorite who is currently on vacation trying to remove tar and feathers or some new person that is no more competent or clean but appears as such. Logan can exit with Sims…
Julia Patterson, while in election mode, is for an independent audit. Wonder why she changed her mind all of a sudden (language of conflict?). Anyway, they should hire a big CPA firm to check it out, possibly recommend new check and balance methods. It is obvious we cannot trust Ron Sims, right now he is campaign tabu much like Clinton was.
chard @59
are you planning on paying for the audit? Don’t you want smaller government?
actually TJ, I can do it myself.
chard @ 61
you’re a big CPA firm? I’ve heard of the personhood of corporations, but that’s amazing.
get to work TJ, aren’t you on the tax payers dime down in portland? citizens are already over taxed, you are living proof that we should not pay more in taxes. To many do nothing positions.
TJ: are you saying you are against an audit ? or just trying to give chardonnay a hard time…?
for me? leave Logan in. have democrats consider but vote against an sudit. let them try to sweep it all under the rug.
Logan looks more and more like Dukakis riding in that tank. Let’s get that boy a helmet ! he is going to need it.
rush @ 64
I’m not against an audit, but it seems like a waste of money. I’m giving chard a hard time for recommending a major expense.
I’m curious as to what’s being swept under the rug, however. What exactly has Logan done “wrong?”
chard @ 63
ever hear of lunch?
Comment by torridjoe— 4/5/05 @ 1:13 pm
Let me quote King County Councilman Reagan Dunn, you L.L.L.L. (left liberal loony loser) apologist for evil:
“Let me tell you something: I’m on the board of directors of this company called King County Government. Think about it in the private sector analogy. If a Vice President of a company does something dreadfully wrong and withheld information from his board of directors for more than a wekk – he’d be fired. He’d be fired in a New York minute. And we shouldn’t expect any different from our county government.”
King County Councilman Reagan Dunn on Carlson Yesterday
(I recorded the large majority of that exchange.)
josef @ 66
so rather than provide the rule or law Logan broke, you refer back to Dunn’s hatchet job where he cites an entirely irrelevant analogy, jumps to the allegation that Logan has done something “dreadfully wrong” (?), and withheld information from anyone.
If you’re alleging Logan is Evil, by the way, please let me know so that I can discontinue entertaining your subsequent posts on the matter.
josef @ 66
so rather than provide the rule or law Logan broke, you refer back to Dunn’s hatchet job where he cites an entirely irrelevant analogy, and jumps to the allegations that Logan has done something “dreadfully wrong” (?), and withheld information from anyone.
If you’re alleging Logan is Evil, by the way, please let me know so that I can discontinue entertaining your subsequent posts on the matter.
TJ @ 65
what has Logan done wrong?
what has Logan done right. he is the dude in charge, the manag-ER. He takes the fall. He needs to own up to the mistakes made by his department. it doesn’t matter WHO did it, it was on his watch. He was the coordinator. Julia P said on KVI that there were 4000 election workers, elderly workers. was she making excuses for him at that time? I seriously doubt she is sincere now wanting an audit. Ballots were found
10 different times
10 different locations
chard @ 69
so again in response to the question what has he done wrong–you offer no answer.
tj
As usual you fail to factor all relevant information, Dean Logan is an appointee, a political appointee at that. He is an at will hack. He can be fired for no cause, there is no legal standard to meet. His DEPARTMENTS performance alone merits his ousting. Furthermore, Washington is an at will state which basically makes it like a no fault divorce. You simply do not need to prove anything to end employment. Once the heat is too much for Simms, Logan is history. But, this is very political, so it will serve the preacher man well to keep Logan around, cover his eyes and ears and repeat a hundred times a day; “Model election for the rest of the country”.
Gee TJ..
“Finding” ballots months after certification when the entire place was scrutinized top to bottom is nothing wrong? You are either oblivous to elections proceedures or simply a partisan hack with no real intent on an honest discourse. So which is it?
TJ @ 70
“10” as stated in post 69, for starters!
348 provisionals ran thru machines w/o verification
absentee ballots (larry phillips)
military ballots not mailed on time
voter regs not kept updated which lead to dead people voting, dbl votes, felons voting.
enuf 4 now? I imagine John Carlson will update us on the chelan court room scoop @3.
*You’re going to have to identify the “10 times”–it sounds like BS to me.
*I’m unaware that Logan ran through provisional ballots himself. Furthermore, all workers were trained in the proper practice. That some of them did not fulfill their training–why is that Logan’s fault?
*All military ballots went out on time. There is no dispute to that.
*There is no evidence whatsoever that voter registrations were not kept updated. That felons voted would be the fault of the WA court system, not Logan. That people voted for deceased persons would be the fault of the Health Department, not Logan.
All you have left are these “10” that you refer to, which you have yet to substantiate or even explain. Please include why they are Logan’s fault, as well.
T JOE, isn’t your lunch over?
AV @ 71, 72–
On what basis do you claim his division’s performance merits his ouster? By all accounts they did quite a good job under enormous pressure. Their error rates were remarkably low.
I’m aware he can be fired for whatever reason. I’m asking what the reason would be.
chard @ 75
nearly, yes.
torridjoe @ 55:
“what evidence is there that he withheld information from elected leaders? Isn’t Sims an elected leader?”
I quote from today’s story in the PI:
“[Democratic Councilperson Bob] Ferguson also was upset about the lag between the time election workers discovered the first uncounted ballots and when the council heard about it.
“The first priority of the elections department is to let the executive, the council and the public know what is happening,” Ferguson said. “That didn’t happen this time, and that’s wrong.”
That’s the evidence. No law broken, but common sense and simple professionalism should of made Logan tell the elected folks first.
jon @ 78
Logan told the #2 executive in the City immediately. I find it hard to believe that she did not in turn discuss it with her boss, Sims.
Why it’s incumbent to give Council a half-basket of data and conclusions, I have no idea.
TJ @ 65
in fact you have had breakfast, break, lunch, break, break, all day. 8:02-9:07-9:20-9:26-9:46-10:59-11:13-11:39-11:45-12:01-12:53-1:13-1:48-1:54-2:09-2:26-2:43-2:55 all on tax payers dime.
no wonder you think Logan did nothing wrong. you are not credible
chard @ 80
I never said I was on break any other time.
Tj
You are truly a fucking idiot if you can ask that question and actually mean it.
av @ 82
if I’m the idiot, how come you’re the one who can’t answer the question?
torridjoe @ 79:
Go tell that to the County Council!
Yes, he should have told them immediately that there were uncounted ballots found, and let them know how many and what the circumstances were later.
Considering the reaction, especially from the Democrats on the Council, (you know the Republicans were going to scream no matter what) what purpose was served by witholding this information?
jon @ 84
the purpose would be as he explained it–to present a full accounting of the problem, rather than a trickle of information with continually updated numbers. He was damned either way.
Hey Goldy!
This is a good thread, but I do have to say that I think it is unfair for you to pick on Reagan Dunn, as many politicans both R’s and D’s got their start with help from family, and you don’t have to think too hard to figure out some Democratic and Republican names that would fit that bill.
Comment by torridjoe — 4/5/05 @ 2:26 pm
First, sorry about the LLLL thing. Somewhat.
Second: Oh, so we need a rule or law for everything? No, I agree w/ Mr. Dunn – if I’m not as eloquent – when something like that comes up, w/ legal and political implications, it’s the moral imperative of Dean Logan to tell his bosses. It’s a relevant analogy and yes, I’ve had private sector bosses.
Finally, I don’t know if Dean Logan is evil or not. But in Marummy Country, we say what he’s done is – quoting the boss, “beyond belief and inexcusable”.
Comment by Jon — 4/5/05 @ 3:15 pm
Thank you. I AM the son of a politician and 2-time county commish candidate for the – wait for it – DEMOCRATS!
AV take your blood pressure pills. Is name calling all you have left? You’ve been shredded so many times on this site. Why do you keep coming back?
Chard. You’ve been stuck in the worn-out groove for like forever. Same moronic warmed-over winger drivel.
Final evidence of bankrupt views: when all else fails attack the work habits of the man making the better argument.
torridjoe @84:
I would agree he was damned with the R’s on the Council no matter what, but, again, common (political) sense should have made him stay out of hot water with the D’s on the Council (at least on this issue) by letting them know ASAP, even without all the info.
john @ 89
such wit, that was funny. With talent like that, AAR 1090 am should hire you in a heartbeat.
chard @ 91
Thanks but no thanks. I’m in favor of Goldy taking a spot there myself.
In the meantime enjoy your Limblow and Faux News – the prime source of your talking points perhaps?
If finding ballots 10 seperate times inside the same facility isnt an issue then I guess this was truly a “model election”. I am glad you are not accounting for my bank statements. And John did you have a point or did you just catch your tail for the first time.
It would be refreshing for someone of the D persuasion to stand for what is right and say; Yes, we have some issues here that should be addressed. But no, you get the talking points straight from Nancy “send my staff to Europe on a donors dime” Pelosi. Democrats obviously can do no wrong in your eyes. This is not a partisan issue. It is an issue of basic integrity in our most precious commodity in a republic, voting. It smells, but you continue to hold your nose.
All you “Every Vote Counts” Dem’s, the words you preach may taste very bitter soon…
Hammond requested a list of the voters(93) whom ballots where not counted. “In his letter, Hammond noted that many of the voters came from his council district and that he wanted them to learn about the disposition of their ballots in time to make informed decisions about joining litigation to invalidate the Governor’s race. ”
Full text here : http://www.metrokc.gov/council.....LS_Ltr.htm
If Logan Didn’t do anything wrong why is his Department still FINDING Ballots (valid ones at that)…..Should have Counted Every Vote….
What amazes me, or at least it used to, now it just amuses me, is how you libs are okay with how this whole election came down. Every problem that has been identified is no big deal to you. You are setting a very low standard as to what acceptable is in terms of an election process. How desperate you are for your candidate to hold office, you would take it anyway you can get it. You stand for nothing. Any reasonable person sees the problems in this election, but you guys explain it all away as normal and acceptable. I can promise you none of this would be acceptable to you if Rossi was in office with a 129 vote lead. You distract from the point, more found ballots, by attacking a councilman that is asking for accountability. WTF? Why are you not pissed off that this is so F’d up? Why are you not pissed that a system that is meant to give the people confidence in the winner of elections is the cause of the doubt that clouds your candidates “victory”. Why is all this ok with you? Don’t bother answering I already know the answer.
By the way TJ must be a government employee, he thinks the only justification to be fired is if you get caught breaking the law. Incompetence, poor job performance, being responsible for the department that f’d this thing up, how about that for justification.
av @ 93
I’ll give you credit for changing your tune – you’ve dropped the name-calling. That was my point.
Nancy Pelosi? Last time I checked she was from California. Now do you see why it is a waste of time to argue with you?
Go see a doctor. Get on some meds. Maybe you’ll think more clearly.
Jon @86,
Absolutely! It is unfair of me to pick on Reagan Dunn. In the same way that it is unfair of Dunn to scapegoat Dean Logan, who very reasonably explained that he was waiting to report the newly found ballots until they had completed searching through the half million plus envelopes.
I like to illustrate my points by example.
chris @ 95
you forget the obvious justification–that nothing went badly wrong. The facts are that the election was run pretty smoothly and accurately–FAR better than the national norm for elections, and under extremely difficult circumstances. The problem is that you think things are fucked up, but you have no basis for claiming it. Every problem that’s been identified is something that can, should and will/has been addressed. You always seek to improve. But the Assistant Secretary of State himself has said that King’s errors are not serious in and of themselves. Their seriousness has nothing to do with their character, and everything to do with their impact.
Contrary to setting a low standard, King and WA set a very HIGH standard–one about TEN TIMES as stringent as is recommended for elections in this country.
Chris N @ 94
Hammond’s pissing in the wind, it would seem. Only a court order can get those ballots opened to the public.
TJ @ 99
Pissing he well may be doing, but what stops him from seeking that court order, or contacting his constituents to have them verify their vote was COUNTED.
He is headed in the right direction, and I bet he puts the seat up too!
Chee @ 9
My take is that a reliable GOP mouthpiece got appointed to the KCC. When Chris Vance pushes a button, Dunn delivers a pre-recorded message. Like a talking doll.
Chris N @ 100
his constituents can ALREADY find out if their vote was counted–they don’t need his help. And by court order I meant “in the process of examining the votes for a court proceeding.” I suppose Hammonds could file some kind of court request to see them, but I don’t know on what grounds.
TJ @ 102
“I suppose Hammonds could file some kind of court request to see them, but I don’t know on what grounds.”
The exact reason he states….He wouldn’t have to file for full public disclosure, unlike the Dem’s did when they went selective voter shopping. The elections department could notify these 93 voters of the “error”, I would want to know.
These votes were not the reason “in the process of examining the votes for a court proceeding” the Dem’s were looking for. The discovery of these votes in no way violate any rules, as they don’t COUNT ANYMORE. The election was certified. But those voters have the Right to be a lil bit pissed. Should everyone just keep their mouth shut and not let these people know.
KC Elections counted felon votes, dead votes, and double votes, why couldnt they count ALL the REAL votes. These votes were absentee, there is no excuse for mishandling these. There were THREE (3) flipping ballot counts. They were OVERLOOKED 3 times. Do you call this good management of KC Elections.
If only they could talk, we can only imagine the journey these 93 ballots have made the past 4 months.
Goldy @ 97
Ok, but are you going to go after folks like Bob Ferguson and Julia Patterson, with the same level of vitriol, and demand an apology when the independent audit they want doesn’t show any wrongdoing?
Just askin’!
So, who IS Raymond Shaw?
TorridJoe @all – To my favorite non-resident – Washington is not trending more dem. Apparently, some government workers that can’t spell “E-T-H-I-C-S” are helping that conservative trend every day.
Also, because most people that read this blog have never met TJ, I have decided to out him.
A
Picture of TorridJoe
Torrid’s the one wearing the green shoes.
jim @4 – Who the hell are you? My vote is for free and fair elections regardless of the winner. Unfortunately, King County lost my ballot somewhere in the heap.
Jim’s
Kind of Candidate
idering the level of scrutiny in this election, it is quite amazing to find ballots showing up now.
Goldy – I admire your keen use of strike-through and white space. The lead in to this story was quite outstanding. I got creative and wanted to share my vision for this site, based on posts by Jim and his ilk.
The New Seal
of Honor for Goldy’s Site
TorridJoe,
It’s pretty naive of you to think that there’s nothing that resembles an error in the way that KC Elections handled this past election. I mean c’mon, finding ballots months after the election, even if it was an honest mistake shows that the procedures and controls in place were woefully lacking.
Go ahead and defend Logan all you want. But, there’s a point of no return in any organization with respect to accountability. The writing is on the wall.
I’m betting Logan either resigns or gets fired pretty soon. Even Julia Patterson is starting to question her support for Dean Logan.
Others,
Call me a freeper for mentioning the PI poll, but it’s pretty much against Logan.
It’s not looking good for Dean.
Comment by Chris — 4/5/05 @ 4:26 pm
GOD BLESS YOU FOR SAYING WHAT I’VE TRIED TO SAY FOR MONTHS ON END!
Comment by torridjoe — 4/5/05 @ 4:47 pm
HOW?
Using the name Washington Redskins is racist.
The name should be changed to the Washington Rednecks.
Then no one would complain about racism.
The cheerleaders will be called the “Cracker Girls.”
Dean Logan is a lying, whining, little weasel.
He’s Ron Sims’ punk.
However, Ronnie is getting ready to kiss Logan goodbye.
Logan just has too much baggage. Like fraud.
DD @ 110
lying, whining, little weasel
You’re projecting DD. Do you even know what that is?
a clue: something often done by hate-filled people.
zapporo @ 106
Ha, ha, ha, you’re killing me zapporo. Did you know I’m still laughing about your lame binder jokes, ha ha ha!
Now you’ve got caricatures, oh you’re killing me Z, call an ambulance! Hah, ha, heh heh…
John @ 112
You got one thing right it was a “lame binder”….Obvious now that those 93 votes survived 3 counts UNOPENED!!!!
Makes a person wonder how they accounted for the 93 ballots, Oh I know, they were part of the other hundreds that dont have a voter who could claim them…. Lame Binder Indeed.
ChrisN @ 113
Keep pounding ChrisN – you’ll make butter somehow.
TJ@98 – The problem is that you think things are fucked up, but you have no basis for claiming it. Every problem that’s been identified is something that can, should and will/has been addressed.
I am not going to waste my time trying to convince you of the obvious. If you can’t see how fucked up this election is you’re an idiot, or a blind partisan, you pick. Your “Model Election” shit is tired. You are one of the last hold outs on the Model Election crap. Most of your friends have abandoned that part of the play book, for obvious reasons, and are now using diversion tactics. Your people have realized they can no longer defend the indefensible, you need to catch up. Remember “Diversion” is the play of the week.
TJ and Goldy,
Face it, Logan is toast. The captain of the ship that struck a bunch of charted reefs.
I hope he resigns before the trial so he will not subconsciously feel any “undue pressure” from his boss during his testimony.
Bluesky @37 (and now at 105, start reading the thread!!!):
Raymond Shaw is the brainwashed assassin (controlled by his mother) in “The Manchurian Candidate”.
Maybe the King County Elections Report is the Queen of Hearts (see the movie if you don’t get this).
josef@108and109
Common sense is ignored on this site, don’t take it personally just consider the audience, and direct questions are never answered. (As you already know – you have been posting here much longer then I)
Chris @ 115
Once again you’ve shown up with your tired spew and lame insults.
One chance. Here’s a quote from TJ:
Their seriousness has nothing to do with their character, and everything to do with their impact.
What does that mean to you? Careful Chris, you’re being graded on your reading comprehension.
zip @ 116
If Logan resigns, it’s going to be a sad day for King County. It means the triumph of mob rule. Truly sad.
John,
Give me a break. The people that he manages screwed up time after time, and now he ticks off the Democrats on the council, and you say that “mob rule” is what did him in?
At this time, his job security depends on the support of the county council and he seems to have botched that up. He is in a politically appointed job and now he has to resign because he didn’t play the politics right. Nothing to do with “mob rule” whatsoever.
Quit your bellyaching you neo-conservative republicants.
Dean Logan is doing a fine job.
This election was a model for the world.
There are no missing ballots.
Ron Sims has everything under control
Christine Gregiore is the governor of this great state.
Asking for photo ID at the polls is no longer needed.
There is no possiblity of fraud using all-mail elections.
John is a genius.
Torrid Joe can ethically blog all day long at his employer’s expense.
That is all you need to know.
Take your medicine.
Now. (Dammit!)
Zip,
No break. Logan before the Council admitted that progress in KC Elections is about at the same level as when he came in. I think he was being unfair to himself. The last election was a record breaker in every category: new registrations, absentee ballots, provisionals, closeness, you name it. You try doing a better job with the meager resources he had.
Ironically, at the end of the Seattle Times article, it appears there is bipartisan support for more resources for KC Elections.
Democrats? Democrats being hounded by the mob whipped up by the usual suspects.
john @ 45 You have to get a few laughs from jeff b. He comes over here once in a while, plays the troll roll to the max. Then runs back to uSP and cuts everyone over here to shreads. Quite an upright individual (NOT)
jpgee @ 123
Pretty sad individual indeed. Can’t make an argument that can stand the light of day.. Just hurls an insult or two or three and scrurries back to momma’s skirts at (u)SP.
actually, Reagan Dunn has a very impressive resume, if you wanted to actually look at it. I read it and was very impressed with his work for the U.S. attorney et al. His resume puts many others there to shame
JUST IN, NEWS ALERT….DEAN LOGAN KNEW ABOUT THE 93 BALLOTS MONTHS AGO.
Chard @126 – this just makes me so angry. Perhaps a bit of very bad poetry will make me feel better?
One Fish Two Fish
Votes Stealing Commie Fascist Liberal Trash Fish
This one has a yellow fin
This one has no idea how much stinkin trouble he’s gonna be in
I took a look
I saw a ballot book
In the ballot book I saw missing signatures in a nook
And that book looked mightly cooked.
So how easy is it for the crook to cook the book with forged and missing signatures in a nook?
Why don’t we ask the crook?
Ok, I’ll stop. I feel much better now. Perhaps someone else can handle the bad poetry for the rest of this thread.