WordPress ate my last post so here’s an abbreviated version before I head out: Even though House Republicans hate Obama, and might well not pass an authorization of force against Libya, he shouldn’t have taken military action there without one. The War Powers Act is more wide ranging than I’d like, but it still probably doesn’t allow this. Also, even if he could get authorization, I’m not sure he should have anyway. I do think the humanitarian mission has value, but I don’t know what the US and its allies have done to prevent a bloodbath by the rebels if they take Tripoli, and I can’t imagine a partition (especially one enforced by Western air power) working out well in the long term. That said, this conservative anti war case is embarrassingly stupid, even by Federal Way Conservative’s low, low standards.
Bush’s Unilateral Action Had More Partner’s Than Obama’s Multinational Effort
The Libya mission has the UN, and NATO, and sort of the Arab League? Well Iraq had the UK, Spain for a while, and Poland.
It’s all here, in black and white: When President Bush went to war against Iraq, he had 4 times as many nations supporting him than Obama doing his “Kinetic Military Action” in Libya.
This isn’t an apples to apples comparison. The link includes military action by every country that just supplied a few troops in Iraq at any time in the last decade. So most of them came on (and in small numbers) after the invasion. You can’t compare that to just an air offensive. Hell, the fact that Eritrea said they supported the invasion to try to gain favor with the Bush administration made them part of the Coalition of the Willing. We had to put those together because the Iraq war didn’t have the backing of NATO, the UN or other international organizations that might give it international legitimacy.
Of course, now that Obama’s little crusade against Libya is turning out far worse than Bush’s romp in Iraq, maybe even democrats will admit Bush was the greatest president ever.
Did a we lose several thousand troops and billions of dollars in Libya? Because if not, it’s not as bad.
Those dumbfucks are all over the place with this. The only consistent one is Bolton. He wants to bomb Iran. Again. More.
It’s a NATO operation now folks. A real International Coalition. These right wing freaks can’t stand that Obama may have done something the right way. Har-deee-har-har.
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And given that the nominal justification for the intervention in Libya is humanitarian, it’s only fair to note that our adventure in Iraq also cost a million or more Iraqi lives, and wounded and/or displaced many millions more. For Iraqis, it was catastrophic.
I happen to think the intervention was a bad idea; it seems like the US has permanently fallen into the habit of turning to military force as a first resort for resolving conflict. But it’s hard to take the arguments of any leading conservative seriously when three weeks ago so many of the now-critics were excoriating Obama for not having already started the bombing.
The only rational conclusion is that they’re opposing the intervention because and only because it was supported by Obama. And that’s just puerile, especially when so many lives hang in the balance.
Heads up ass…now breath…gadaffi isn’t going anywhere, obama has to
Once again rujax speaks from his ASS! Well maybe that’s where the single brain cell resides.
Let’s review…
“Colonel Qaddafi needs to step down from power” – Obama
“Qaddafi has to go. – Hillary
“Our desire is to persuade him to leave on his own.” – White House Press Secretary Jay Carney
“it’s time for Qaddafi to go” – Obama
So now Obama is not for regime change on Qaddafi.
“And as we have seen in the past, regime change is a very complicated business. It sometimes takes a long time. Sometimes it can happen very fast, but it was never part of the military mission.” – DoD Gates
Contradiction everywhere moronic rujax.
Man this rujax is 1/2 of the stoooooooooooopid twins.
The only thing consistent about conservatives is that they criticize any policy that isn’t theres, no matter what it is.
It looks like there will be a quick resolution in Ivory Coast, where opponents of strongman Laurent Gbagdo have swept across the country in four days and have surrounded the presidential palace in the capital city, where Gbagdo is believed hold up. About 400 people have died so far, most of them murdered by Gbagdo’s security forces. Like virtually all of Africa’s civil wars, including Libya’s, this one is fueled by tribal rivalries.
Obama lacks balls. Per his usual style, he’s going halfway in a situation that demands decisive action, as a fruitless attempt to appease all sides. He even offered Gadhafi sanctuary in the U.S.! When Gadhafi began killing unarmed civilians, then threatened a bloodbath against his own people, the world had a choice: Do nothing, or stop him. Sadly, the usual response of governments over the past century has been “do nothing” while despots carried out genocides. This is shabby. In a rare departure from SOP of looking the other way, after aerial photographs showed groups of Bosnian men and boys being herded to killing fields, Clinton stopped the nascent Serbian genocide with airpower alone, at a cost of no American combat deaths, and wingers bitterly criticized him for it. One can only conclude they wanted all those Bosnians dead because they pray to the wrong God. Then they criticized Clinton for not intervening in Rwanda, where the world looked the other way as 800,000 people were hacked to death with machetes. It’s clear that conservatives are consistent only about criticizing Democrats simply because they’re Democrats, and are willing to exploit any tragedy for naked partisan gain. What a bunch of amoral low-lifes! How can any thoughtful or compassionate person vote for these assholes? The bright side is we won’t have to share Heaven with them, because they’ll all be in the other place.
Of course Calypso Louie Farrakhan will probably house him!
Wrong again Roger Dumb Rabbit. Incorrect analysis for the 1,484,742,934,242,674,277,324,972th time. DUMMOCRAPTS only declare war when it benefits them politically, not the common people. Notice how Obama is “playing” this “action”. He doesn’t want any of the fault if it fails but will take all the credit if it succeeds. This garbage about it being a NATO event… Who gives the most money to NATO? Who has the most sophisticated war communication system, JSTARS, and is using it? NATO doesn’t have the Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System. Who has CIA agents on the ground? Butt you do have the stoooooooooooopid!
Funny. What did Saddam have to do with 9/11 again??? Oh he had WMD???
What did McClatchy find out about that??
So what’s left???
2004 perhaps?? What’s that letter next to that moron you voted for twice’s name?
@4…
Fuck off asshole…your goat is waiting.
Have you tracked the Republican position on this? He dithered and waited too long to act. Then, he acted, why did he act? Then he stopped too soon.
And if he says tomorrow is Saturday, they will argue he is wrong.
Okay, Puddy, you facile vessel for the rightwing. Instead of criticizing Obama, tell me what you would do in Libya, you piece of partisan shit. There are no easy options in Libya; your hero Reagan bombed there, if you’ll recall. You fucks on the right hate this country.
What is this.. just one more attempt to try and divert attention from Obama’s illegal and Rebub like actions by pointing out the inadequacies of of the RW’s anti war argument?
What I’d really like to know is.. where have all the LW anti war protesters gone? Many of the same folks that were all over Bush for Iraq are now suspiciously quiet other than to make excuses for Obama..
Gee, I wonder if it could have something to do with this current president having a D after his name? Nah..couldn’t be.
Lets show some consistency. Lets demonstrate some real principles. If it was wrong to preemptively attack another country under Bush, it’s also wrong under Obama.
Thanks Upton…
You wrote it almost perfectly. I have an issue with
1) The administration voices would have been in one accord
2) A meeting with the House and Senate Leaders would have happened first
3) A stated objected would be announced
4) The Powell Doctrine would have been followed.
5) And you can’t equate Obama with Bush. Obama has no clue. He placed academics and their friends along with their socialistic ideas in high places. Susan Rice and Samantha Power Sunstein come to mind
13 – Gaddafi massing his forces on the outskirts of BenGhazi?
Obama loses both ways – when he takes action to save lives and when he sits it out like Clinton did on Rawanda.
Sigh… Dem Presidents have right wing trolls just like lib leaning blogs.
And no Iraq is no comparison because a coalition was already enforcing no fly zones over Iraq – to the point where the Kurds had practically full autonomy in the north.
Illegal?? UN Mandate? Formally informed Congress withing 24 hours under the War Powers Act? Arab League?
Notice how the “erudite” mind of 1/2 half of the stooooooooooooopid twins rujax@10 works. No facts just fictitious ad hominem attacks. And he throws in some animal sex to pacify and satisfy his leftist friends.
We who always think right are so glad rujax is one of yours. You should channel your leftisright buddy more.
The other half of the stooooooooooooopid twins wrote@9
And since you have your vaulted databaze ylb, look up all the lefties and all the other countries I posted many times with fully qualified links who claimed Saddam had WMD in 2002.
You conveniently have an empty mind when you post here.
No facts – just fiction!
Corrected – for idiots like Puddybud..
OH NOES! Like Bush did with Glen Hubbard who for years took money from Investment banks to write puff pieces and anti-regulation garbage.
OH NOES! Like Ronald Raygun who appointed Alan Greenspan to Fed Chairman who took 40K from Charles Keating.
All exposed in Inside Job – good flick..
17 – THEY WERE ALL WRONG!
LIKE YOU!
Hmmm…
Proud Leftist you were amazingly quiet when this same question was placed on you about Iraq and Afghanistan. And now you want me to answer.
Well the problem trying to answer is I don’t have the intel necessary to form an answer. I would consult with Stratfor and with real military people not the morons Obama placed in high places save Gates. Gates is doing the bidding of his master right now. Gates has slipped up and said his mind a couple of times only to be “corrected” by Hillary later. I documented the other useless people Obama placed at various high level positions and their lack of experience. Now that Obama is being tested we see how much of a novice he is.
I would have worked with the Arab League. It’s an Arab problem. Remind the Arab League how we came to rescue the Moslems in Bosnia. How we went to Banda Aceh after the tsunami. Remind them how we help them every chance we can. Obama became the apologist in chief with his visits to Cairo and Istanbul in 2009 with his apology speeches, so he has no street cred anymore in the Arab world.
in January, Obama stubbed his foot on Mubarak. First Biden said we support Mubarak. Oops now we don’t. Oops, he has to go. Then it went downhill from there. This administration talks out of both sides of it’s collective mouth so it can cover it’s ASS at the appropriate time. That’s not leadership.
Golly ylb, such powerful retorts of nothingness. No facts – just fiction.
I see you still like to copy me (Corrected!). I live in your mind foolish one. You are my Pavlov’s doggie!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
15 – Correction 48 hours under the War Powers Act.
20 LMAO. I remember a certain right wing moron saying that Obama had “lost” Egypt. The truth is that a certain right wing tool lost his marbles many, many years ago.
21 – LMAO!! Glenn Hubbard was an academic and a Bushie tool and an Investment bank tool.
THAT”S A FACT FOOL!
Alan Greenspan took money from right wing jail bird Keating to write a puff piece on his fly by night Savings and Loan – many people lost their savings with that right wing turd.
THAT”S A FACT FOOL!
Wasn’t Saddam an “Arab” problem?? Maybe a Persian and a Kurd problem too. — OOPS!
i.e. do nothing. So the tsunami relief balances the books with Gaddafi massacring thousands in Benghazi.
Yawwwnnn…. When a “R” does it – it’s ok..
Who brought up Glen Hubbard but you the other half of the stooooooooooooooopid twins? This is 2011 you chronological moron!
Man you are one confused liberal. Where did I say that? Stoooooooooooooooopid!
It seems the Muslim Brotherhood made a deal with The Egyptian Military, which your “certain right wing moron” [your words] claimed would happen.
Too stoooooooooooopid and staying that way!
25 – You brought up academics in the White House you paranoid dumbshit.
Worked with the Arab League?? What did that fucking mean? It could only mean one thing.
Obama takes right wing orders. He loses when he takes action and he loses when he does not. But he REALLY LOSES when he does what right wing morons tell him what to do.
Just like anyone here can’t help but LOSE when they dance to your tune Puddybud.
26 – Oh what deal was that Puddybud? No link I see. Is that the latest Pyjamas Media/Breitbart/RW bullshit line these days???
Oh and the Arab League REQUESTED a NO FLY ZONE over Libya. That’s a fact too.
How’s that for “working” with the Arab League?
His master would be the Bush family. He’s a Bush family retainer. Not so much the idiot son but the father.
Yeah I liked when his old analyst’s mind popped up in a hearing in the Bushie days and he said Iran was surrounded by countries with nuke weapons – Russia, Pakistan, the U.S. (with the fifth fleet in Bahrain) and Israel. Any wonder why they have an interest in splitting atoms?
Funny that we don’t hear from Darth Cheney or his attack canine daughter at all these days. Maybe Gates is doing the bidding of his masters?
Manomanoman the stoooooooooooooopid is really showing in this stooooooooooopid twin!
This ylb character got his leetle pink lace panties all in a wad. Then the truth hits let’s revert back years. Did this Glen Hubbard set war strategy? You pick people and then try to weave them into your useless arguments. I introduced Obama academics who ARE LEADING OUR WAR STRATEGY moron! Show me where Glen Hubbard discusses going to war. Hubbard discusses rebuilding war torn societies into democracies.
And the other part of your rant of Obama taking orders from Michelle Bachmann, John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, etc. is laughable as soon as one reads it.
You not only make people laugh at you, your arguments are so weak even jch could have a field day!
Still waiting for the Muslim Brotherhood Egyptian Military response. Ohhh wait a minute… there won’t be one so you jumped those train tracks and now attempting another response.
And the ARAB NO FLY ZONE… how many weeks later did that happen. A leader works with all sides looking for a solution. Obama was almost 4 weeks too late!
Jo mama’s calling you moron. You need remedial debate assistance. Take a flight to CA.
Manomanoman the stoooooooooooooopid is really showing in this stooooooooooopid twin!
His master is Obama you moron! He doesn’t work for either Bush.
Manomanoman the stoooooooooooooopid is really showing in this stooooooooooopid twin!
Gotta go ylb. Argue with the hand. Gonna take a nice trip overseas for two weeks. Gotta catch a plane.
Puddy will be sporadically commenting on HA during the next two weeks. Enjoy reading the stoooooooooooooopid twins, they are a hoot!
And I introduced right wing academics who are bought and paid tools of the god Mammon you worship you moron.
Nailed your miserable ass to the floor tool.
Are you’re still STUPID about the Sundsteins – stay a fool always.
Are you calling them right wing morons????
WOW, I really did it this time!
Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaal!
Packing your heat fool? Obama’s in charge. You might get captured by the terraists.
He might have to bargain for your dumb ass..
Stupid stupid out there tool.
Now he’s running away. C’ya dummy. I don’t know whose mamma lives in CA. Yours is not with us I understand.
Mine is and she doesn’t live in CA.
Stay stupid out there dummy.
I don’t knee jerk to your latest paranoia fool.
You have something worth looking at – post a link.
Anything that comes from you is worthless.
YLB @15, etc.,
The War Powers Act is too broad for me, but I think this does fall out of its scope (as did many War on Terror things Bush did, as did Kosovo that I supported, as did many military actions by Reagan and Pops Bush).
The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to
(1) a declaration of war,
(2) specific statutory authorization, or
(3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.
I’m not saying Obama should be held to a different standard than those previous presidents who violated the act. I don’t know what the consequences ought to be, given the well established precedent of presidents not being held accountable for actions beyond this. And of course the Republicans who think Reagan was the bestest prezident evar, but Obama is awful for this strike me as deserving a big bag of go fuck yourself.
Exactly… The right wing has no legs to stand on this – a bunch of freaking whiners.
In my view, our hand is forced – we’ve built too capable of a military over the years for various reasons and we’ve floated it with other people’s money.
If we stand by and ignore calls from allies to take action over crises that pose a threat to their interests how do we expect them to help us in the future?
@8 “He doesn’t want any of the fault if it fails but will take all the credit if it succeeds.”
Well, that makes him a smart politician, doesn’t it? P.S., anyone who knows anything about how the White House operates is aware that the primary function of a presidential aide is to take the fall and get fired if the boss screws up. That’s how it’s always worked, and that’s how it’ll always work.
Roger Rabbit spews:
Obama lacks balls.
Must have lost ’em after the second daughter was born!
Let’s just get out of ALL these foreign adventures. Get out of the Middle East entirely. Get out of all foreign lands and stop meddling in stupid futile adventures.
@42
Im down with that…and at the same time we end all foreign aid to these shit ass nations.