Word is that state Secretary of Transportation Paula Hammond is planning to vote against putting a revised Sound Transit rail proposal on the November ballot. Hammond reports directly to Gov. Chris Gregoire, and is thus her surrogate on the Sound Transit board.
Gee, I dunno, sure sounds to me like Gregoire is going against the interests of her base… not necessarily a smart political move if she wants to pump up her margins in the Seattle metro area.
UPDATE:
What can you do? ST board members and staffers will be on both KUOW and KIRO this afternoon, and they need to hear from you that you want rail now. The anti-rail camp is afraid to put this on the ballot in 2008 because they are afraid it will pass. And should we not get a proposal this year, there very well may not be an ST to run one by 2009.
Well, if we keep going in this direction, Rossi and the BIAW won’t have to worry about Seattle stealing this election.
So who would we contact about this? Should we just be contacting Gregoire or is there a way to get ahold of Paula Hammond too?
God I hope that Hammond votes no. The state needs to take back power from the locals – they can’t do stink right. Viaduct advisory vote, no progress on SR 520, monofail . . . what has Nickels and his cadre done efficiently? Nothing.
ST operates its own little fiefdom. It spends way too much money, for too little benefit. I’m from Seattle, and there is absolutely nothing in the new plan that would help me out. Yet me (and my neighbors who fucking can not afford higher sales taxes) would be on the hook for decades of steep new taxes.
It looks like subarea equity is out the window, and the new taxes wouldn’t be bringing nearly enough to this subarea. Nickels is green, but he is doing a lousy job of representing his constituents as a Sound Transit board member.
Don’t worry. Gregoire will win easily because Puget Sound voters are sheeple.
@4 The math doesn’t add up for Rossi. There’s just not enough goat fuckers and fascists in this state for him to pull off an upset win over Gregoire. His best bet might be election fraud or voter suppression.
I think it is better to let this issue rest until next year at least. The political environment just isn’t right. And maybe we need to see how the (not yet) existing system is working, before we decide to expand it?
Just remember that a far smaller percentage of the people in the Sound Transit area voted for the project last November, than supported Gregoire for Governor in November 2004. We don’t need to be giving the BIAW another topic to run radio and TV spots about.
While I’m generally in favor of the transit plan, I don’t think it’s good politics to try to put it on this ballot this year.
If Gregoire loses the gubenatorial, then Rossi will sink the plan administratively, even if it IS approved by the voters. The only chance it has to get implemented, or ANY reasonable transit plan to be professionally administered, is if Gregoire wins.
So the priority needs to be on her winning this year. The last thing she needs is a diversion of attention away from Rossi’s BIAW masters by arguments in infinitum over how much the whole project will cost (with the opponants pulling numbers out of their nether regions and advertising them daily).
Next year will be better.
@3
“Yet me … would be on the hook for decades of steep new taxes.”
The current ST plans will cost the average tax payer each year about as much as a tank of gas. Once a year. $5-6 per month. The cost of 1.5 Starbucks latte’s. I guess a latte a month defines “steep.”
The way some people worship ST’s grossly overpriced light rail scheme you’d think they believe it’s going to (a) replace cars, (b) solve global warming, (c) eliminate U.S. dependence on foreign oil, (d) end all wars and usher in universal and perpetual peace, and (e) enable you to lose weight without eating less or exercising.
To anyone capable of operating a simple calculator, Sound Transit’s $179 million average per-mile cost (compared to a U.S. average of $35 million) doesn’t compute. Would you shop in a grocery store than charges $11 for the same loaf of bread everyone else sells for $2.15?
Kudos to Gregoire and Hammond for refusing to rubberstamp this piece of shit. Sound Transit has done none of the things necessary for further investments in light rail to merit voter support. They continue to do everything wrong. Same route. Same costs. Same taxes. Same everything. They’ve fixed none of the flaws. All they’ve done is repackaged the voter-rejected ST-2 into two pieces hoping they can sell it to you one bite at a time.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ll be more than pleased to support — and vote for — a rational light rail system, reasonably priced, fairly financed, and built within my lifetime.
Other cities can do that. Why can’t Seattle? A good start would be replacing the politicians on ST’s board with engineers.
Hammond probably has other things on her mind. She must get at least several death threats a day from residents of Port Townsend.
“Word is?” WTF is with that, Goldy? And who made you the spokesman for Gregoire’s “base,” whatever that is and whoever is to decide?
Let’s get her re-elected and worry about the other shit later.
Richard Pope is now a Gregoire fan as in “WE”???
He sure wasn’t less than 2 years ago when he filed this ethics complaint against Gregoire.
http://soundpolitics.com/PopeToMcKenna09-15-06.pdf
We don’t need a confused wingnut like Pope inflatrating for his own morbid attempts at getting elected to something.
Hmm… Any word on why Hammond is inclined to vote no?
Down in T-Town Julie Anderson is a yes and John Ladenburg is a probable yes.
Weird.
@13
Off topic.
As usual, RogerRabbit astounds us with his incredible ignorance.
Roger, this IS the engineers’ plan. It’s your emotion-based transportation unrelated approach which puts you in the ‘politics over science’ camp. (which is why you always find yourself siding with right wing liars when the subject of transportation comes up)
The angry old white guys at GOP Inc called, Roger. They want you to join their Dori Monson listening club.
Speaking of ignorance, maybe Roger can find us those abandoned rail lines running along I-5, so ST can get their costs down to a level some old crank who lives in the ‘burbs can agree too. ST should also follow this curmugeon, and eliminate ridership from their cost-benefit criteria.
Because, of course, the entire world revolves around Roger. And his subsidized car, and his subsidized freeways.
Kurdt Knucklehead: we get it. You hate Sound Transit. Join the mixed nuts party. But to say the incompetents in Olympia should take over regional transportation? Have some self-respect, man.
rhp: the state Constitution prohibits any state meddling in locally approved measures. Not a valid concern.
Michael: the state does not want to give up the center roadway on I-90 for light rail. They want buses (and could care less whether local transit agencies and cities can’t do anything with those buses once they leave the highway) The state also wants the revenue from Lexus Lanes – you know, the rich Republicans who will pay to drive in the bus-only lanes)
Why Hammond and Gregoire are listening to right wing Republicans re the I-90 issue is beyond me. Talk about political suicide.
I too will vote NO if it makes it to the ballot. ST hasn’t even finalized what they’re working on to prove it has the ridership and able to run – yet clamoring for more tax money.
Wednesday’s PI had that article:
Sound Transit giving is questioned
$164,000 in contributions called ‘conflict of interest’
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....sit09.html
Tossing money around like it was nothing. What does ST think it is? The Pork of Seattle?
Nov’s ballot is going to be a doozy in terms of all the levies and ST demands.
I’m a senior citizen who lived in Atlanta for 11 years and enjoyed using the Marta system.
Now I’m retired, back in the Northwest, and can’t believe you folks can’t see to the future.
Please put ST on the ballott for Nov. I’ve already been doorbelling for ST.
Get out of your cars, walk to the bus and enjoy meeting new people, save some money and gas.
Also you WILL loose weight.
NutsRus@16: I’ll admit that I haven’t studied the plan in any great detail. But are you saying there is NO state money involved, and NO state right-of-way impacted? Sounds like ample opportunity for a meddler to get involved, regardless of otherwise Constitutional prohibitions.
Sandra @ 18: Yep, you have to envision the future in order to embrace it. Those of us who have travelled on well-run systems overseas or cities in the U.S. with new systems tend to be enthusiastic. Eisenhower would have never pushed for the Interstate Highway System if he hadn’t seen the Autobahn in Germany first.
That doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate RR’s comments about the cost. Every system needs to be designed efficiently. But here we have a tendency to reject every system which doesn’t fit our particular bias, so that nobody can get a concensus around any single ONE design. The result is that nothing ever gets done.
@16
I was looking for a statement or press release from Hammond. Something like that.
I think Dadddy Love pulled it together in a well-worded ‘nutshell’, as to why I feel like I do about ST:
http://www.horsesass.org/?p=5179#comment-792446
I’ve worked hard too to be able to afford a house, now scratching through retirement trying to keep up with the cost of medical insurance, taxes, and inflation.
Seems like the BIG push (3 times a year with the Spring/Primary/General elections) is to keep dunning for dollars, yanking & bleeding pocketbooks until Seattle becomes the playground for the rich – while all the moderate income or fixed income folks get run out of town.
Meanwhile, important things such as the 520 or the Alaskan Wy Viaduct, that can come crashing down to squash MANY people (simultaneously) like bugs in the next earthquake, get put on the back burner or studied to death. This region needs to get its priorities figured before grabbing for more pretty toys. Just because people won’t ride buses ‘because they don’t LIKE buses and might have to sit next to the unwashed masses’ so they need light rail to get around – if gas gets high enough, I’ll bet they start running for a bus.
Yes, I have ridden great trains and transit systems all over Europe. So, I’m not simply some hick from the sticks because I don’t believe in overextending one’s income.
@13 Richard saw the light and is a Democrat now.
@16 Since you’re so smart, maybe you can tell me how ST can build $11 billion of light rail by collecting $125 of sales taxes from 1.2 million households for 20 years. No matter how many times I run that on my calculator, I come up with only $3 billion.
@22 They’ll have to sit next to the unwashed masses on light rail, too, unless ST is planning to provide private compartments.
“$125 of sales taxes from 1.2 million households for 20 years.”
It will be less than that for most families. Plus, with the tax ending in 2020, this is a much better deal for us than Prop. 1 last year! I can’t wait to ride the subway to the UDub.
A NO vote by Paula Hammond to keep Sound Transit off the ballot will be the beginning of the end of her tenure as Secretary of Transportation. She will antagonize a significant base of the people she needs to work with along with most voters in ths state’s population center.
If Hammond’s vote is the deciding vote, it will be viewed as political direction from a Governor more worried about her own re-election than solving transportation problems. It could be the beginning of the end for Gregoire, who like Hammond often suffers from where she lives, in and around Olympia far from where real votes are.
The state built the I-90 bridge to support rail. The state DOT has always advertised that. People know that. It would be a terrible mistake for Hammond fall victim to anti-rail hysteria that light rail will fry the floating bridge.
It would also be supremely stupid for Hammond to suggest that the plan include more buses at this stage after she spent a year saying nothing about that. It would demonstrate that she’s still working for her old boss: Doug MacDonald.
Make no mistake: despite his obvious passion, MacDonald’s proposals don’t have the backing to deliver any new transit in 10 years, let alone the massive new transit systems he dreams about. He’s a fool with a pen.
There are no technical, engineering or transportation reasons to keep Sound Transit off the ballot in 2008.
The only smart political position is to be in favor of letting the people vote this year. The only thing that a no vote will communicate from Hammond or Ladenburg is that they are more interested in politics than transportation and that they don’t trust the voters. And perhaps that they aren’t very smart when it comes to politics outside the places where they live.
Here’s another link exposing how crooked Sound Transit is in playing duplicitous games with tax dollars:
http://www.kirotv.com/investig.....etail.html
It’s bad enough that State Auditor Brian Sonntag is opening an official investigation into this foul behavior.
All the ST sycophants out there who genuflect at the alter of light rail need to get a grip, get a clue, and get a life.
Light rail is not Holy Grail – it’s not the apex of Western Civilization or a benchmark by which so-called “sophisticated” cities are measured.
In this region, it’s a bloated barrel of pork that’s been rammed down the throats of taxpayers at the behest of those who seek to micromanage citizens’ lives and social engineer their rights and liberties into oblivion.
There are a lot of people – a LOT of people – who not only find this whole business gross, but who also think other, more cost-effective transit solutions get kicked to the curb not because they’re bad, but because they fall outside the political and social theology – not thinking, theology – of light rail zealots.
Light rail insistence is a secular religion – one of many articles of faith in a gospel of of massive governmental control and orthodoxy that brooks no dissent nor tolerates any deviance.
Those who fail to worship appropriately are subjected to a secular form of inquisition and excommunication that Tomas de Torquemada would recognize and appreciate.
So, don’t expect the High Priests of the Temple of Light Rail to acknowledge the falseness and perfidy of this latest ST charade – in pursuit of such Holy Truth, the ends justify the means.
No matter how much money is misused or misspent or wasted, the masses must be herded up the path to a secular, light rail salvation whether they want to go or not. After all, at the end of the crusade is the ecstasy of an inflexible, 19th Century solution that eviscerates the rights and liberties of individual citizens.
I can’t wait to find out the depth of dirt Sonntag will find. And I can’t wait to see how it will be rationalized, explained away, or simply dismissed by light rail true believers.
The Piper
it’s really dumb to say “transit is good therefore EVERY transit project is good and anyone who brings up the cost is a nut and an old white guy who loves roads”
What is the total cost over the twenty years (whatever) to each individual?
Please answer.
@28
please stop the 19th century criticism — roads date from Roman times.
And I think the wheel is even older, also fire.
And eating. that’s really old. Also: being in a family is so ancient. Probably a shitty idea to have families then, right?
That argument is dumb.
@28,29
The light rail line in down town Tacoma works quite well. The next round of ST funding will include some matching funds to expand the line another 1.5 miles or so to Tacoma General Hospital taking it from being a distributer line for people all ready down town into a line people can ride to work down town from the stadium district.
I’m with you that rail isn’t the answer for everything, but Tacoma, Portland and Salt Lake are all quite well served by their rail lines.
“The only thing that a no vote will communicate from Hammond or Ladenburg is that they are more interested in politics than transportation and that they don’t trust the voters.”
Well, once they see the plan they could determine it costs too much, does too little, and isn’t worth putting on the ballot. Or it could mean there are not enough unions and businesses behind it so that the campaign could be funded sufficiently. It also could mean that it is imbalanced against some subarea. As it was cobbled together really late in the game, no votes could just reflect that it is not a polished enough product. No votes could mean lots of things.
And regarding the comment about not trusting voters – I don’t trust voters. A shitload voted for Bush. Seattle voters supported the Seattle Monorail Absurdity, four times or something. It’s clear now voters had no fucking clue what the ST1 proposal in the ’90’s actually said. Who trusts voters? Voters voted the NAZI party into power in the early 1930’s in Germany. Voters can’t be trusted – they can be manipulated by propaganda too easily.
@32…nkko…
And who should we then trust? The likes of you?
Perish the thought.
I’ll stick with the imperfect voters.
The Piper
“A NO vote by Paula Hammond to keep Sound Transit off the ballot will be the beginning of the end of her tenure as Secretary of Transportation.”
This statement is absolutely absurd, on a number of levels.
Here’s more reasons why it might be entirely appropriate to not have it go to a vote. For one, the benefits might not be spread around equitably. The project list and costs haven’t been disclosed by subarea. Some subarea might not get enough new service.
There’s no indication yet about when the taxing would stop. That means the ballot measure that eventually is disclosed might tie up too much taxing for too long a period.
Another thing – Hammond has greater responsibilities for overall transportation (as compared with most ST boardmebers, like the Sumner Mayor, or a Tacoma City Councilwoman, or an Issaquah councilman). She could believe that the taxing capacity of the region would be more appropriately utilized for the SR 520 megaproject ($4.5 billion of costs), or the SR 99 viaduct work, or all the work on I-5 through Seattle (about $3 billion of work needed there, according to some reports), or all three of those major needs.
There are lots of reasons it might be in the best interests of everyone to not risk voters locking in tens of billions of taxes for some slapdash plan that doesn’t address the backlog of other work needed.
And I disagree with the prior poster – with transportation megaprojects the voters should not be given the choice. They are too easily manipulated. The elected representatives at the state level only should be responsible for megaprojects, as they have overall authority and they can be held accountable at the ballot box. That’s what a representative democracy is all about.
@34…nkko…
In this state, the people are sovereign…at least for now.
They showed good sense in dumping the Prop 1 monstrosity – bloated, lacking in focus, and profligate in the extreme it was.
And they should be the ultimate arbiters of transportation policy.
Your POV suggests that they should defer to their betters, the so-called “experts” to make such complex decisions.
Bunk!
The people have more collective good sense over the long haul than any bunch of academic eggheads.
It’s our money on the line with this stuff, and we have the unfettered and absolute right to have the final say.
Until Sound Transit puts light rail performance numbers on the board that equal or better what has been promised to taxpayers, it should keep its trap shut.
To date, it’s been a disgrace, and the public rightly regards it as without credibility – save for the zealots who refuse to see any sin in the light rail golden calf.
The Piper
The Piper spreads his usual bunch of hooey. If he had been paying attention he would have noticed that Sound Transit has turned itself around and for the past six years has consistently delivered projects on time and on budget. They have even qualified for two federal funding agreements totaling a billion and a half dollars from your beloved Bush administration, Piper.
We get it dude, you love your car. Cars rock. Cars are American. I own one too. Problem is we can’t build anymore space for them. This region is expected to attract another million and a half people in the next twenty years. We don’t have the space to build enough freeways, arterials, car-centric subdivisions, big box stores with huge lots, parking garages, car dealers–you get the point. I am not crazy, I believe personal transport will be around forever, but we have to start giving a significant portion of our population options to use reliable transit. We have to give developers the opportunity to build compact, walkable development near station areas just like they have around the world.
Piper–what is the record of your beloved Highway Department in delivering projects on time, on budget?
nkko @ 34
ST has subarea equity. Money raised in an area, stays in that area. This was at the insistence of Piper’s pal, AG Rob McKenna.
The plan on the ST website has language about when taxes end. Your city council, county council, county exec, mayor, etc. sit on the board–lets stop with the crazy conspiracy theories about some evil cabal.
Poll after poll shows transit gains more support than roads projects. The state is already responsible for repairing I-5, 520, and SR 99. The region pays more than its share of the taxes to replace them all. What you are advocating is that the region should pay TWICE and let the state off the hook.
No, this region should spend our extra taxation money on something that will help us. Two choices–roads or transit. Roads are a dead end in planning for growth. We can’t build enough. Do needed maintenance, fix choke points like 405-167, spend money on traffic management.
But the next fifty years needs to tip more towards transit. Two choices–rail or buses. Buses are great, they move lots of people already. But they operate in traffic and their ability to get around already sucks and will get far worse. Unless you take traffic lanes or build dedicated busways. And if you are going to build busways, you might as well build rail because it carries far more people and uses electricity instead of polluting diesel fuel. The BRT crowd in this town is almost entirely made up of cranky old Republicans like Piper who see it as a way to justify more HOV lanes being built. Then they push to make those HOT lanes that rich folk can pay to use. This slows down the transit using these lanes. And so it goes.
The governor may well be able to screw her base and survive this election given that Rossi is far worse and would build I-605 through the Snoqualmie Valley. But I and many other party regulars will vote for her and nothing more–no money, no time and energy, no love.
“The plan on the ST website has language about when taxes end.”
Why, you sir, are correct: “THE TAXES END WHEN WE FUCKING SAY SO.”
pleasepayattention: you waste way too much time on clueless clown Piper Scott. A picture says a thousand words:
http://www.crosscut.com/images.....tclair.jpg
Sorry, two pictures
http://www.crosscut.com/images....._piper.jpg