At a town hall meeting last week, after being asked about the possibility of going to jail for failing to buy health insurance, U.S. Tom Coburn (R-OK) warned the audience not to believe everything they hear, explaining “That makes for good TV news on FOX but that isn’t the intention.”
This of course got Fox host Bill O’Reilly’s undies in a knot, who castigated Coburn the other day, insisting that he “find one person on Fox News who told this audience that they would go to jail if they don’t buy health insurance.”
Well, Kate Pickert at Time Magazine’s Swampland blog took up the challenge, and who was the first person she found to spread this lie on Fox News? None other than our own Rep. Dave Reichert.
Ironically, Reichert himself recently went out of his way to warn supporters not to question the lies they hear on TV or read online:
“Don’t believe everything you hear. Find out the truth. And I’ll tell you why it’s so important to find out the truth. Because it has to do with keeping this country free. It has to do with keeping our country, our freedom. It has to do with us having that responsibility and gaining that knowledge. It will keep us free, because there are people who want to divide us. And we all know that a house divided will fall. And if we let ourselves become divided this country will fail, and for that and for the future of our children and our grandchildren we cannot allow it to happen.”
Which I guess is about the most useful advice we’ve heard from Reichert in while.
I don’t think that’s honest at all, because a country is not a house, and a country divided, becomes two countries. What’s so bad about that? Sometimes that’s the best solution.
Funny. I thought the sheriff’s expertise was in criminal law. If he is this thick in his area of expertise, what good is he?
@1 I’m kinda ok with that. Let the welfare bums of eastern Washington go, make their own anti-govbmint state, and capitalist for profit western Washington will be it’s own state. I’m kinda tired of my taxes being drained into eastern Washington to pay for their rural “lifesytle” choice (and their employment of most of thet states illegal immigrants on their Republican farms). They want to live a pretend rural life, but unlike Davey Crocket they want freeways, highways, telephone, cable, internet, water treatment plants…and WE (the city folks) have to pay to subsidize their lifestyle.
Also a FAR greater % of jobs in eastern Washington are government or paid for by tax taxes…mostly prisons, military, subsidized ag, etc. They use a higher % of welfare per person across the board. The PRIVATE for profit capitalist companies are in liberal western Washington (Boeing, Microsoft, Starbucks, Amazon, Nintendo, Classmates.com, Dendreon, ZymoGentics, Cray Computing, PEMCO, Drugstore.com, RealNetworks, Attachmate, Alaska Airlines, Holland America, CostCo, Immunex, R.E.I., Clearwire, PACCAR). Those giant 50+ story buildings that make up the liberal cabal of Seattle area…are 99% private capitalist companies. And we’re getting tired of putting up with the WHINING of eastern Washington while taxes flow from US to THEM to subsidize their lifestyle choice.
;-)
@3
I’m okay with that too. You do realize that 9 out of the 10 cities with the highest murder rates in America are Democrat cities and have Democrat mayors, right?
In one quote he manages to crib/mangle Rush Limbaugh, Abe Lincoln, and “Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine.” No small feat.
Goldy, I’m sure you meant to type
“This of course got Fox host Bill O’Reilly’s undies in a knot“
Tlazolteoti @6,
Yeah, that’s what comes from rushing to get a post out before taking my daughter to school. And before drinking my morning caffeine.
Contribute to Suzan DelBene!
Also, there is a great function Tuesday, April 20th, 4:30 – 6:00 PM at the Columbia Tower Club.
DNC Chair Governor Tim Kaine, Governor Chris Gregoire, 8th CD Democratic Nominee Suzan DelBene, and WLF National Co-chair Helen Howell.
Only $150! You can RSVP HERE.
P.S. After the Tim Kaine reception, you can head to the Montlake Alehouse for dinner and Drinking Liberally.
What a great evening!
Whenever you hear someone like Riechart say “Don’t believe everything you hear. Find out the truth…”, you have to be careful about the context. Is he warning his followers not to read the New York Times and Washington Post as well as watch Fox News? Or in the context in which he is speaking, is he really telling them not to believe the vast overwhelming evidence from multiple sources, and to rely upon Fox News instead?
Back in the fall of 2008, I attended a church service where the pastor was admonishing his congregation to not get caught up in “negativity”, and to keep a personally and spiritually positive outlook by not watching TV at all for the next several weeks – which just happened to coincide with the last month of the election cycle (and the collapse of the U.S. economy).
I also keep thinking of the character on the movie about the P.R. spokesman for a tobacco company (I forget the title right now), when he encouraged an elementary school class to be independent and “question authority” when they told them smoking was bad for them.
Anyway, nice principles in practice (seek truth, don’t believe everything you hear, question authority), but when used in different contexts it can mean very different things.
rhp6033 @10,
In this context, he specifically used viral emails and talk radio as a springboard.
If you look at the date Reichert said that, and the version of the bill he was referring to, I believe there were provisions in it that allowed for IRS fees…and of course when you don’t/can’t pay the IRS you go to jail.
If you do more reading on this and look at other articles, you will see that the Senate version now has language in there specifically addressing jail time and how that possibly is excluded.
I am glad he brought it up and raised the debate or this bill could have actually provided for jail time.
Ironic that DimDavey, who is blindly devoted to the Party of No, would decry a divided nation. Who is doing the dividing, DimDavey?
Tim @12,
That’s not true. The bill never contained language allowing jail time for failing to pay the tax penalty.
@14…ya, they will just take your house and everything else you own….
@4;
So?
Vince @15,
No. It’s actually one of the potential weak points of the bill, that it gives the IRS no means of enforcing the tax penalty. Read the bill.
So many Goldy lies, so little time to refute….
1. Tim @12 is correct (as was Reichert when he spoke to Cavuto) . Earlier versions of the bloated health care “reform” bill DID allow for IRS fees (aka TAXES) to be levied if insurance is not purchased. And a non-tax payer CAN be jailed for not paying taxes. Ergo, you go to jail if you don’t A)buy insurance and B)pay your taxes. Honest airing of this monstrous provision allowed for it to be removed.
2. If Goldy actually decided to be fair for a change and give you the full context of the Reichert quote he listed (above), you would have known that the examples Reichert gave about avoiding misinformation were such things as viral internet emails (ie: “Congress does not pay into social security” which isE not true).
3. On April 12,2010 (just three days ago) Goldy said THIS about Reichert’s kickoff speech:
“I just got finished listening to 25 minutes of Rep. Dave Reichert recorded at his recent campaign kickoff fundraising breakfast, and from his rambling, pointless and incoherent speech…”
Today, Goldyfollows up another quote from that same speech by saying: “…Which I guess is about the most useful advice we’ve heard from Reichert in while.” Soooooo – which is it? Incoherent or useful? Make up your mind Goldworm.
@17…the money grubbing fed will fix that, dont you worry….
@4 opines: “You do realize that 9 out of the 10 cities with the highest murder rates in America are Democrat cities and have Democrat mayors, right?”
You do realize that correlation is not necessarily causation, right? Oh, shit. I forgot. I addressed this to a fucking idiot.
@19: Nice concession of defeat, there, nuts.
@21…so it is your opinion that there will be no sort of punishment, monetary or otherwise, of people decide not to get healthcare or chip in?
now that is nuts…
Teleprompter @18,
1. The bill has always included a tax penalty on those who do not purchase insurance, and are not otherwise exempt, but has never included a mechanism for enforcing this penalty. No liens, no jail time, nothing.
2. In my comment @11, I provide the context.
3. Look up the word “sarcasm.”
“…and of course when you don’t/can’t pay the IRS you go to jail.”
Wrong. If you don’t report income, you go to jail. If you file a fraudulent tax return, claiming deductions/exemptions to which any reasonable American would know that they were not entitled, you go to jail. If you try to avoid paying taxes you know you owe by placing the money in offshore bank accounts, claiming that the IRS doesn’t have authority to tax your, etc., you COULD go to jail (but it’s rarely done).
But if you simply don’t pay taxes, or can’t pay your taxes, you don’t go to jail. Being unable to pay taxes is not a crime. But IRS civil enforcement can be unpleasant. They file liens against your property, and often just sit back and wait until you have to sell or refinance, at which point they will make sure they get paid. If they come up against the 10-year statute of limitations on their lien, or if your property obviously has lots of equity, then they may decide to go ahead and foreclose. And, of course, they can levy against your wages, padlock your business, etc.
@24 I used to go years without bothering to file. At one point I hadn’t filed for something like seven years straight. I finally filed that batch (she wouldn’t marry me if I didn’t) and I got a few checks back (with interest) and had no problem with the IRS whatsoever over having failed to file those returns. They audited me some years ago, I didn’t bother responding, and haven’t heard from them about it since, even though I’ve since been audited again, took care of that one, but still heard nothing about the previous audit. And I probably owe them a few bucks from that first one.
Vince,
See posts 23, 24, and yes, even 25. Scratch your nuts and try to actually be substantive…..just once. It won’t hurt.
This post seems to back up what I said…even the president and pelosi agree with Reichert!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQQQG7zTHyQ
@26…post 24 confirms what I posted you dipshit.
perhaps you should try reading before posting, asshole…
Goldy @18 –
1. One more time for Goldy and others who are slow on the uptake….. we’re not talking about actual wording of the bill here. Please follow the logic – The health care bill creates a new TAX requirement. Knowingly not following federal TAX law can and will, eventually lead to prosecution. Ergo, if you don’t buy insurance and you don’t pay the new TAX, the IRS can use its built-in enforcement authority to prosecute you which can result in jail time.
2. Love how you conveniently leave out context of quotes in your actual post, making your readers sift though the musings of numerous mindless, drug-addled regulars, only to reach that context in your #11 comment.
3. Oh really?? I had SO thought you were serious…..
Reagan’s Teleprompter @ 29,
“we’re not talking about actual wording of the bill here. Please follow the logic – The health care bill creates a new TAX requirement. Knowingly not following federal TAX law can and will, eventually lead to prosecution.”
Ohhh…Geeeee…nobody thought of that angle!!!!!
In fact, no. Let’s talk about what the bill ACTUALLY SAYS. The bill explicitly prohibits criminal penalties, liens and seizures for enforcement of the excise tax penalty for noncompliant individuals (see section 5000a of HR3590.)
Here’s an idea…learn before you spew, dipshit!