I can predict the future. I see… (un)Sound Politics trashing Mark Trahant’s column in Sunday’s Seattle P-I.: “Rossi should take a cue from Gore.” (Unless of course, they read my prediction first, and don’t trash it just to spite me. So come on Stefan, I dare you to prove me wrong by proving me right. Or prove me right by proving me wrong. Whatever.)
Anyway…
This was an election that raised more questions than answers. Voters were split, roughly 50-50, and the conclusion was not at all satisfying. The division was so bad that the very process of elections and how we count votes became its own legitimate political issue.
Al Gore conceded anyway.
Ouch.
The point is, we’ve just been through a damn close election, and while those of you on the losing side may believe it was a load shit… shit happens. Trahant takes a historical perspective, pointing out that we had extremely close and contentious presidential elections in 1800, 1824 and 1960 (not to mention 1876), and in each case the loser managed to accept the results without a demanding a revote.
U.S. elections are not perfect and there’s no guarantee a new election would be any more satisfying than the November race.
Of course Dino Rossi supporters ardently believe a new election would be more satisfying — they’ve spent so much time and energy impugning Christine Gregoire and the Democratic party, they’re just oozing cockiness that Rossi would win in a cakewalk, if not a land slide. But as Trahant points out, he’ll have that chance… in 2008.
Ultimately, the question of legitimacy will not be answered by Rossi, a court or even a new election. It will be something that must be earned by Gregoire. It will be determined by how well she leads and governs the state.
If she’s effective, it will be tough for any Republican (Rossi included) to win office four years from now. And if she fails, Rossi or another Republican ought to win easily.
Republicans can rest assured that our state Constitution does indeed allow for a new election… every four years. But for now, it’s time for our new governor to get on with the job of governing. And it’s time for loudmouthed know-it-alls like me to get on with badgering her and the Legislature to do the right thing on tax restructuring, education, election reform and a host of other important issues. Speaking of which…
One way to improve access for military voters is to move the primary election back, allowing more time for ballots to be printed and mailed.
I couldn’t agree more. Oh wait… I already did.
Is this the same editorial calling on Rossi to legitimize Gregoire? Don’t get me started on how Bush – who shares a lot of similarities with Gregoire, beneath the partisanship (like a disdain for transparent government) – bullied as if he had a mandate, as Gregovych now claims… for I on the last blog post gave 5 reasons why there are serious problems with this election!
That said: I too want to get on with it. I’d just assume have the election contest, put any Gregovych tax up for referendum and after the Rossi win in the second election, move forward.
Besides, we have a State Dem party that needs a serious clean house.
There’s something to chew on until the Seahawks game! Go Hawks!
More importantly: GO DINO GO! SAVE OUR STATE!
Washington 2004 is much different than Florida 2000. There never was any issue with extra ballots being cast in Florida back in 2000. Either the number of ballots counted matched up exactly (or very darn near it) with the list of actual voters, or else the Democrats were too focused on hanging chads to pay any attention to such matters.
I would think that Florida elections would be pretty honest, when it comes to matching up ballots counted with actual voters. First, all voters must show picture ID before being allowed to vote. Second, the state actively matches the voter registration lists against a list of convicted felons. Third, the state has an active program to detect multiple registrations. I am sure they are just as viligant about making sure they are not counting more ballots than voters.
Christine Gregoire is apparently riding into office on a tsunami of illegitimate ballots — 3,539 more ballots counted in King County than actual voters who cast them. She is destined to join two other prominent politicians who tried to ride into office on similar tsunamis of voting fraud — Slobodan Milosevic in 2000 Yugoslavia and Viktor Yanukovich in 2004 Ukraine.
On September 24, 2000 in Yugoslavia, 150,000 votes were reported for Milosevic in Albanian (the group that his regime had butchered)districts of Kosovo. In reality, people in those districts had boycotted the vote, and none of them would have voted for Milosevic anyway. (To add to this absurdity, Kosovo has been occupied by NATO since June 1999, making it impossible to actually pull off this kind of fraud anyway.)
Milosevic’s tsunami crested prematurely, and his regime was washed out to sea by the Yugoslavia Supreme Court. After massive protests, the election results were annulled on October 4, 2000, with the 150,000 fraudulent voters being removed. Vojislav Kostunica was declared the winner and became President of Yugoslavia.
On November 21, 2004, there was a tsunami of fraudulent ballots cast in eastern Ukraine, the stronghold of leftist establishment candidate Viktor Yanukovich. At numerous polling stations, more ballots were counted than people who actually sign the voting rolls. In fact, some polling stations even had more people voting than were registered to vote.
Once again, a legal remedy was provided, and the tsunami of voter fraud washed away its perpetrators. On December 3, 2004, the Ukraine Supreme Court ruled that Yanukovich’s victory had been procured by fraud, and annulled the results. A new election was ordered, in which opposition candidate Viktor Yushchenko won handily on December 26, 2004.
I predict that the tsunami of fraudulent ballots in King County will drown Gregoire politically, and wash Democratic control in Washington and King County out to sea (so to speak). The U.S. has a much better developed system of judicial review than Yugoslavia or Ukraine, so Rossi’s case will not face such an uphill battle. In addition, the national presidency and the national supreme court are politically sympathetic to Rossi’s position, just in case unfair judicial rulings are made at the state level.
Neither Richard nor Josef know what they’re talking about. What a pity. Yeah, right – King County is about to become a Republican stronghold. Sorry, Richard.
By the way Josef – Bush and Cheney backed Rossi, which pretty much everyone knows. There are pictures of Cheney and Rossi with their arms behind each other’s backs.
Your attempt to link Gregoire to President Bush is completely ridiculous and shows how unrealistic you are. Maybe if you stopped living in your own little world, you’d see things don’t line up the way you think they do, or should.
Comment by Jenny— 1/2/05 @ 3:34 am
I see you, too don’t sleep. Good.
Okay, now I know about the B-C backing of Rossi so chill. My point was their mutual governance style. Rossi has repeatedly decried opague governance and frankly, you don’t see me criticizing John Kerry for backing the hand recount big-time (it helps when I voted for him) so tread carefully about mentioning national party leader involvement in this mess… Because frankly, I just think they’re doing their jobs. If I didn’t, if I felt there was a hidden agenda – I’d say something different.
Comment by Richard Pope— 1/2/05 @ 2:58 am
I agree with just about everything you said… right up until saying Gregovych’s theft will wash out the Dems in King County. YEAH RIGHT!
I doubt very seriously that’ll happen. It’s a cultural shift that’ll take more than this, you know.
josef–
You are the guy that drives these “establishment” Dem’s crazy! Keep up the good work!
Richard–I doubt King Co will become R country anytime soon but I get your point….they will be neutralized because of this ballot fiasco. It’s kind of like Paul Berendt dropping his drawers and neutering himself with a dull scissors. GROSS!
Isn’t anyone out there interested in what a careful review of those affadavits Paul bawled about, will show??? Berendt attested to their validity 100%. If we are going to hold Logan accountable for 3500 unaccounted for (net as Richard points out) ballots…don’t you think we will also hold Paul, the mean-spirited, emotional Kingpin of the Washington State Dem Party, accountable also????
Funny, just yesterday you said:
“Why the fuck should I waste my time analyzing discrepancies in P-R-E-L-I-M-I-N-A-R-Y data, that is going to change the end of next week?”
which would imply that we still don’t know what the final vote count is. Seems a little premature to concede if we don’t even know what the “final” vote count is.
And a little history lesson, Al Gore conceded only after all legal remidies had been exhausted. The dems are the ones that wanted to contest the results of this election with an extra recount and going to court. Well, the court portion of that contest is far from over.
The dems in WA are starting to remind me of that famous fraud, the Wizard of Oz. ‘Pay no attention to the extra 3,500 votes behind the screen… The great King County has spoken.’
Sorry to post such a big piece, but everyone really should read this one from the generally pro-Rossi Everett Herald. It makes it clear the extent to which Rossi is becoming a crazed conspiracy theorist.
Sunday, January 2, 2005
Losing doesn’t wear well on Rossi
Dino Rossi has gone missing, replaced by a bad copy.
The original Dino Rossi set out for the governor’s mansion brimming with confidence, greeting folks with bright eyes, a wide smile and a solid handshake – not one of those slithering palms that feels like a dead fish.
Perfectly tailored in an underdog suit, this salesman waged a $6.1 million marketing campaign of amazing clarity that won the hearts, minds and votes of 1,373,232 people in the state.
His message of change mesmerized his flock. Though few of them knew precisely what he would do, they all seemed to know what he meant. And he made them feel good knowing it.
The original Dino Rossi sealed the deal at each stop with a humble request for help and a believable promise to be a governor for the whole state. He made it never seem to be about him, even when it was all about him winning.
That is not the Dino Rossi I saw on Wednesday.
That man at the podium in an emptied Bellevue office was an impostor. He had no sparkle in his eye, and no smile. He shook no hands. He spoke with resolve dipped in rancor, a hollow insistence that he is fighting on for the good of Washington – not for himself.
That Dino Rossi looked glum and sounded desperate.
I know there’s reason to be both..
Rossi fell 129 votes shy of being that governor of the whole state. He’s feeling ripped off, cheated by insider trading in King County. He needs to uncover some voter fraud to prove his point.
For days now, Rossi, his lawyers and his conspiracy theorist friends have been digging around the carcass of the election in search of a smoking ballot, with none found to date.
Rossi is threatening to contest the results. He’s crusading for a revote to heal those of declining faith in elections and to decide once and for all the People’s Choice for chief executive.
It’s a tough sale to a public exhausted by the ordeal. The original Dino Rossi could pull it off with his rhetorical skills and sense of statesmanship. He successfully marketed a long shot – himself.
The impostor, though, I’m not so sure, especially if, as it appears, he’s pursuing it without influential friends.
Like former Secretary of State Ralph Munro. He started the talk about voting one more time to settle the score and cleanse the partisan poisons from our system. He’s a 100-proof Rossi backer yet he wasn’t there helping Rossi pitch the idea.
Former Gov. Dan Evans and former U.S. Sen. Slade Gorton, two more high fidelity Republicans who’ve stood at Rossi’s side in this epic, were noticeably absent too. They’re not abandoning their man but must be wary of the path this guy is traveling.
That left the look-alike Rossi alone to carry on. He answered five questions from reporters then turned his head down and fled through a side door. His was a going-out-of-business sales pitch.
While this chapter gets written, I’m off to see if anyone’s filed a missing person report.
Very well stated. I’m sure the R’s haunting this board can recall appearances where it seemed that Dino’s heart wasn’t in the fight.
You R’s still sure he’s your man?
Of course Dino Rossi supporters ardently believe a new election would be more satisfying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Goldy, the vast majority of people out there are demanding a revote, not just Rossi supporters.
Goldy, the vast majority of people out there are demanding a revote, not just Rossi supporters.
Comment by Chuck— 1/2/05 @ 10:36 am
Yeah, and that includes the people on the lame-a** polls calling for one. Look, we need a new election, with clear rules and one count. Or let’s have this instead: Referenda on ALL Gregovych tax increases, a court contest and total gridlock that will make Gov’r Gary “Gridlocke” Locke’s eight years look like diaherrea…
Since Dino Rossi has gone missing, replaced by a bad copy, then Sweet Chrissy should have no problem with a revote. That way we could vote her in as the legitamate governor. The people will see thru Rossis “sharade” and I will then state my complete support (no sarcasm implied whatsoever) for Crissy and we can move forward.
Rosi did two press appearances – he was a mess in both – the letter one esp…..just grandstanding…unclass act as he has become….that letter was not presented to Gregoire before the press conf. Bad manners and bad politics if you want the high road….Rossi is joining the Craswell/Carlson political has beens….might take 10 years for it to sink in.
Of course at the undertheadSound they don’ think the major newspapers like this mean anything anymore. Just their shrill invective and rumor mongering, passd off as journalism.
The E Herald was kind in that it did not mention Gregoire said several times clearly and with no conditions the she would live with the result of the full manual cont. Rossi never agreeded…..no class, sore looser, unmaked neo con.
Sore loser, Rossi, you still ned to concede.
Rosi did two press appearances – he was a mess in both – the letter one esp…..just grandstanding…unclass act as he has become….that letter was not presented to Gregoire before the press conf. Bad manners and bad politics if you want the high road….Rossi is joining the Craswell/Carlson political has beens….might take 10 years for it to sink in.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Why dont some of you Gregoir supporters take off the blinders and join us on the high road for a revote, then you can tell me “I told you so”. By the way I wouldnt put John into the has been column just yet, he is simply contractually obligated not to run for office by the ultra liberal Fisher group…wonder why?
Comment by Josef— 1/2/05 @ 4:10 am
Comment by Mr. Cynical— 1/2/05 @ 8:26 am
I think there is a good change that a tsunami of voter anger could sweep the Ron Sims regime out to sea come November 8, 2005. Remember than Rob McKenna only lost King County by about 27,000 votes, and Ron Sims is a whole lot less popular these days than Deborah Senn. The liberal and Democrat leanings in King County, especially in Seattle, are on much higher ground than the Sims regime, and are unlikely to suffer serious long-term damage from the tsunami.
Comment by howard— 1/2/05 @ 9:25 am
Someone needs to file a missing person report in King County. Many of them. In fact, at least 3,539 of them.
The editors at the Everett Herald are brainless morons. Dino Rossi’s supporters have uncovered vote fraud in King County — a massive tsunami of it, in fact. 3,539 more ballots counted than there were actual voters casting them.
They remind me of the Three Monkeys: “Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil”. Or perhaps the admiring crowds in The Emperor’s New Clothes. Or should that be The Empress’s New Clothes?
Moreover, former Governor Dan Evans is supporting Rossi’s call for a new election — contrary to what the morons on the Herald’s editorial board seem to be thinking.
http://www.revotewa.com/endorsement.htm
Chuck – nice day out – take some time out – get some really good winter air – then come back to the planet. The only change about anything in this election will only come from the Supreme Court – the same folks who are well informed in this election contest thus far.
Rossi needs to take it to the Judges. No other path for him. Trying to just PR himslf gives him nothing.
Now thta I have seen him in action at the podium. Maria Cantwell can take him in a heartbeat. He sounded semi-illiterate. Can’t read his own letter…all stressed and twitching.
She is polished as silk and has better business stuff then he has….matches him for looks….wanna talk business sucess, there is Miracle millionaire Maria… and no shady real estate partneres lurking in the past.
The man who said he was a property broker who was just a salesman needs to concede. Too many lies.
Yeah, sure. Please Richard – all morons, all talking with each other late at night from darkened rooms, hair not combed, bad breath and cackkling over the old Macs….
Back again just to thwart the white knight “messiah”—Save us Father God and Mother God from the Conspiracy……of the morons….all morons, morons, morons
Tell Rossi he still needs to concede.
So Chuck… I assume then, that you’ve spoken to “the vast majority of people out there,” and have this information first hand? Or are you just spewing unsupported speculation as fact? (You know how much I hate that. Please add “in my opinion” to statements like that.)
Richard… let me say it again… I do not find this metaphor cute, clever or amusing in the aftermath of this incredibly sad human tragedy. Whether it is coming from your mouth, or that of the proudly insensitive Stefan, it is my opinion that a vast majority of people out there will simply find it offensive. And quite frankly, makes you look like a dork.
There is a principle in comedy that I call the “Hindenburg Paradox.” There are some events, that by the time the pain and horror has faded enough to make them safe for satire or parody, so has the cultural relevance that would have made a humorous reference funny.
So lay off the the tsunami metaphor until they at least finish burying all the dead children.
And Richard, as to the point you were trying to make. Al Gore never contested the election. We were in the middle of a legally sanctioned recount when the GOP successfully sued to have the recount stopped. In WA, Gregoire had her recount, and was declared the winner.
There is a HUGE legal and ethical difference between a recount and a contest. The Dems required no burden of proof that they might change the results in order to request a recount. And, the results of the recount would be known well before inauguration, thus creating no disruption.
A contest, on the other hand, requires a great burden of proof — and not just as Cynical and others suggest, of 129 errors. It would also prove incredibly disruptive… in fact, it’s sole intent is to be so disruptive as to interrupt a Gregoire administration mid term. So to file a contest without a very strong legal case (not just a strong PR case) would be frivolous.
If you think Rossi is being pilloried by the editorial boards now, just wait to see what happens if he contests the election and loses. How many editorial board endorsements do you think he’ll get in ’06 or ’08 under that scenario? Do you think his advisors are stupid? Do you think they’re not weighing the risk he is taking?
She is polished as silk and has better business stuff then he has….matches him for looks….wanna talk business sucess, there is Miracle millionaire Maria… and no shady real estate partneres lurking in the past.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Maria match in looks? Wow your standard for looks in women is kind of down on the scale. No matter, but if Dino is that illiterate, the people have obviously seen thru it by now, so a revote should be a landslide for sweet Chrissy.
Just hope Rossi gets up in public and starts using tsuami adjectives and metaphors.
Richard, that is not OK. Not OK. Period. The misery and suffering of this disaster has no place in this little election contest in this odd little state we cre about…….you are really discrediting yourself by uing it that way as the whole planet weeps and grieves because of massive innocent death, injury, and devastation.
Some estimates say 30 – 40 percent of the dead are kids, babies and small beings devoured by the force of the sea turned killer enemy.
Shame on you Richard….get a clue This is not trendy media, and you are intelligent, seemingly, and old enough to know better.
Everybody who read this, send some money to help. The costs will be staggeing and the needs will extend into years.
So Chuck… I assume then, that you’ve spoken to “the vast majority of people out there,” and have this information first hand? Or are you just spewing unsupported speculation as fact?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Actually I am going off of the on street interveiws, two of the reporters said it was hard finding people that didnt support a revote…
Okay, on the more votes than ballots – this newspaper called on Rossi to concede… but here goes:
COUNT EVERY VOTE – AND THEN SOME? Just as we were thinking we finally had a governor, just as newly certified Gov.-elect Christine Gregoire was resolutely vowing to take the oath of office on Jan. 12, along came another mathematical mystery in King County’s snake-bit election department.
Alert Republicans pointed out that the county had 3,539 fewer voters recorded than ballots counted (and recounted, and recounted). Some of that gap apparently can be attributed to overseas voters and domestic violence victims whose addresses are secret, but not 3,500-plus ballots.
King County yet again finds itself with a lot of ’splainin’ to do – perhaps in court, if Dino Rossi winds up contesting the final tally. Next time around, how about deploying Jimmy Carter and a contingent of U.N. election monitors in Seattle?
. . .
Then there was the name-calling contest, which the Democrats won hands down. Democratic Party Chairman Paul Berendt called Rossi a “thief” out to steal the election; he called former Secretary of State Ralph Munro an “idiot” for raising the possibility of a new election. Democratic Party spokeswoman Kirstin Brost chimed in by calling Rossi a “fraud.”
Maybe it’s part of these guys’ job description to make the actual politicians look like grownups.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/.....8714c.html
Ok just a moment here, it seems to me that peoples skin is way too thin if they are really offended by the mere mention of an awsome lashing out of nature. No one has brought up any gross details or anything like that, besides many people actually mentally heal from joking or using phrases about such things. I havent really heard anyone use any bad taste in these references and lack of the word wont make it go away, so although I dont choose to make the reference to the disaster, everyone that is offended by such trivial things either needs to lighten up and grow thicker skin or put on a jacket….
Chuck – somehow my mother from southern Idaho, and my ex lumber jack father conveyed all I need to know about manners,
basic decency and American values. Some good church helped to.
What you said is just as creepy as Richard. No excuses for the deliberate numb ass view of human misery.
Japan announed 500 million in aid….trumped the US. and they have the cash.
Bush finally got aboard, just took a week and the scorn of the world. Fits his IQ.
Peter, the next time you see a Chevrolet wreck or read about one in the newspaper where an occupant died, I guess you wont mention the word Chevrolet, accident, or street if that is where the accident happened?
Chuck- if you have not thought of shedding tears or done so in the arms of a loved one….take another look. Total misery for 5 million people, 150,000 dead and climbing, nature itself killing tens of thousands of children totaly defenseless and innocent….
Take another look Chuck……nothing to do with any 57 Chevy
Chuck- if you have not thought of shedding tears or done so in the arms of a loved one…>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Evactly my point, as I said some people mentally heal in diferent ways than others and it isnt your place to throw rocks at their choice in method of getting over it…
Comment by Goldy— 1/2/05 @ 11:27 am
I definitely 100% think Dino Rossi should follow Al Gore’s example from Florida in 2000. Problem is, that liberals like you and Mark Trahant are ignorant of history, and forget what Al Gore actually did.
Al Gore did contest Bush’s victory in the 2000 Florida election by suing in court. Gore lost at the state trial court, but won his appeal to the Florida Supreme Court. Bush appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, and that decision was reversed, and his Florida victory was reinstated.
Gore requested a selective manual recount in four Florida counties — Broward, Dade, Palm Beach and Volusia. Two of these counties completed their recount in the time required by law, and their updated figures were included in the official certification. Palm Beach was about a day late, beyond the time required by law, and its updated figure was not included. (Gore would have still lost with the Palm Beach update.) Dade County completed about 20% of its manual recount, and then the all-Democrat canvassing board voted to stop the recount, since they determined it could not be completed by the statutory deadline.
Gore sued at the Florida trial court level in Tallahassee to contest Bush’s victory in the election. The trial judge held a trial over several days, I believe even including Saturday and/or Sunday. It was broadcast live on several satellite channels. The trial judge ruled that Palm Beach was too late and its results were properly excluded. He also ruled that Gore did not have a remedy for Dade County stopping the recount. Gore’s election contest lawsuit was dismissed.
Gore immediately appealed to the Florida Supreme Court. That court heard the appeal on an expedited basis, and ruled that the Palm Beach County results should have been accepted, and that Dade County was wrong to simply stop the manual recount.
However, Bush’s experts had testified in the trial court that the Dade County manual recount was statistically unlikely to change the winner of the statewide vote, had it been carried through to completion. Perhaps mindful of this, the Florida Supreme Court ordered that there be a statewide recount, but only on undervote ballots. However, there were no standards adopted by the Florida Supreme Court to determine voter intent in reviewing undervote ballots.
Bush appealed this decision to the U.S. Supreme Court, which also heard the appeal on an expedited basis. By a 7 to 2 vote, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the Florida Supreme Court had violated equal protection both by (1) ordering a recount of only undervotes in the remaining counties, when Broward, Volusia, Palm Beach, and 20% of Dade had recounted all ballots and (2) by failing to adopt uniform statewide standards on how voter intent was to be ascertained on questionable ballots. However, by a 5 to 4 vote, the U.S. Supreme Court halted the recount altogether, because of the need for Florida to ascertain its electors and for a new President to be timely chosen.
The U.S. Supreme Court decision was printed and distributed late on a Tuesday evening, five weeks after the election. The following day, Gore called a press conference and “conceded” the election, and offered his support to Bush.
So I think Rossi should do exactly what Gore did in 2000. Contest the election. Sue in state court, sue in federal court, press the contest before the state legislature. If not successful at one level, then appeal to the next level. After all appeals are exhausted, concede the election to Gregoire if he is not successful and offer his support.
Of course, I think Rossi will win his election contest, so that he will end up making an inauguration speech, instead of a concession speech. But otherwise, following Gore’s example is an excellent idea.
Total misery for 5 million people, 150,000 dead and climbing>>>>>>>>>>>
As many have died in Chevys…
Comment by Richard Pope— 1/2/05 @ 12:20 pm
Awfully good post. I too think Rossi should contest and I think the US Supremes should have let the hand recounts go forth regardless of the deadline. That would have actually helped the nation so this cloud didn’t exist.
That’s another reason why I want Rossi to contest in court the election – so all the data can be brought forth and addressed and if need be, a new & clean election.
I also deeply appreciated the history lesson :-).
Ooops, one last thing: I – along with Goldy – am doing my best to refrain from using the t-word. Not the least of which being I want the Google searches to find REAL aid programs, not political b.s.!
Chuck – You are completely on the losing end of this argument. It doesn’t matter that a lot of people died in Chevys. The word Chevy isn’t synonymous with the deaths of 150,000 people, including 50,000 children and climbing in the last week. The word tsunami currently has a specific connotation, and Richard, Stefan and others know exactly what they’re doing – which is what makes it more disgusting.
It’s like using blithely tossing about the word Nazi, Fascist, lynching or Holocaust. It’s a clear sign that you’ve lost perspective and have no rational way to support your argument anymore. On Usenet people would call it “Godwin’s Law”.
Out of all the back and forth here, any use of the tsunami to support your side of the argument is simply beyond the pale.
Al Gore conceded anyway… ouch… That’s silly. Al Gore conceded after he went to the Florida supreme court…Al Gore conceded after obtaining a selective recount…Al Gore conceded after the U.S. Supremes slapped down the activist, liberal, Democrat, state Supreme Court.You can’t go higher than the U.S. Supreme Court! What else was he going to do lead an armed insurrection?!
Silly… Rossi hasn’t even gotten close to going as far as Gore went. Come back to reality Goldy.
paul daniel
It’s interesting that you focused on the Gore/Rossi analogy article but that you just happened to MISS that Gregoire now owes her mind, body and soul to the “progessives” of the liberal wing of the Democrat party. Now we all know the exact cost of selling your soul – $730,000 – and the devil has already announced he expects immediate payback.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....re02m.html
Excerpts:
“OLYMPIA — If Christine Gregoire can hold off a potential Republican legal challenge and take her oath as governor Jan. 12, liberal Democrats will be awaiting her thanks and expecting even more.“
“Now the left is hoping Gregoire repays the favor by striking a more progressive tone. At the very least, they hope a Gregoire administration will be more open to supporting their issues than her campaign was.”
“ But there’s little argument that many liberals in Washington state were lukewarm on Gregoire.”
“He says liberal voters might have been able to give Gregoire a victory margin on Election Day if they had been more excited by her candidacy.”
“Many Democrats were unhappy that Kerry conceded so quickly in his race against Bush. Many more were still smarting from Gore’s concession four years ago. Some argue that a candidate shouldn’t concede until the voters are ready to call it quits. “
“So when John Kerry concedes before we are confident that every vote is counted and the election has been carried out fairly, he’s not recognizing that the election belongs to the citizens, not the candidates.“
But those who helped her are hoping for lasting returns.
“I think she needs to remember that progressives came through for her in her hour of need, and they will want to be acknowledged in her administration and policy guidance,” Minchew said.
“If Washington state could lead in that regard that would be a wonderful way for Christine Gregoire to pay back a debt to the progressive movement,” Moyer said.
He’s calling and he expects an answer: Pay the devil his due!
Paul – Due to Democratic activists and pary leaders gaining consensus to proceed…and the 730,000 $$$ posted by the State Dem. Party, Washington has went farther than Florida ever went. —–FULL STATEWIDE HAND RECOUNT —-
Who care about the rest….AND ROSSI LOST….geech, y’all.
I actually think no one cares anymore if he concedes….who gives a shit – not Gregoire – except to tease. His problem only….sulk or not to sulk, that is his call….and as each day passed, it matters less
I guess SHE should be ashamed too?
http://www.manilatimes.net/nat.....2top8.html
Indian villager names son ‘Tsunami’
PORT BLAIR, India—A woman who gave birth prematurely in the forests of a remote Indian island sheltering from killer seismic waves has agreed to name the girl Tsunami, the proud parents told Agence France-Presse on Saturday.
IT”S A DAMNED **WORD** – No one is spitting on hallowed ground. Can you find no better arguement to pick?
LadyWithNoAss—Yes indeed, liberals will have a big say – as big a say as we have had in this State for—hmmmm, 90 years.
There were more reds here in 1920 than any recent era. Remember when all the loggers were killed in the big strikes by the timber barons? Why our State Constitution is so much stonger that the US on civil liberties…well you guessed it, Liberals, solidy imbedded.
And by he way, going to take back the Color Red as the first act of the new legislature.
Read the Postman article, slow news day stuff. He fails to mention the the money continues to roll in from all over. About 1.4 mil so far……reds must have a lot of change these days….beware you Repugs….we can spend much more these days….matched Bush and that was, WOW, big change from the past.
Keep your eyes on all that money….liberal check writers abound.
Callous, mean, self centered, cold hearted, no sympathy, dark twisted souls, crass materialists —- “Not hallowed ground” —–I feel contaminated by your attitudes.
What stinking dog breath comments…. need fresh air to chill the stench.
My life and those of most of humanity have been deeply touched….we will never be quite the same after seeing this tragedy unfold…your lives have not been touched in the same manner….so sorry and sad for you.
You have no idea how my life has been touched, nor whether I knew anyone involved you sanctimonious twit: Callous, mean, self centered, cold hearted, no sympathy, dark twisted souls, crass materialists …Callous, mean, self centered, cold hearted, no sympathy, dark twisted souls, crass materialists ”
Your indignation runs a bit hollow ther St Pete!
Peter – I felt exactly the same way after 9/11/01. How quickly some forget.
Comment by Peter— 1/2/05 @ 1:10 pm
And by he way, going to take back the Color Red as the first act of the new legislature.
Thank God! I cannot even imagine how good American conservatives got stuck with the great(??) color of communism, Comrade St Pete. Finally, a liberal comment with which I can agree. PLEASE do take back the red – to Cuba, preferrably.
Here’s the letter to the editor I just sent off to the Seattle P-I. I will try to follow the same general format and send it to other newspapers, as appropriate. And I even managed to avoid any potentially insensitive language concerning destructive oceanic phenomena:
Editor Mark Trahant says (Seattle P-I Editorial, 01/02/2005) that Dino Rossi should concede the Governor’s race, just like Al Gore did for President back in 2000. Mr. Trahant needs to brush up on history.
The Florida Secretary of State certified George W. Bush as winner of that state after several recounts – giving Bush the electoral votes needed to become President.
Gore didn’t agree with these results. He sued to contest the election. Gore’s lawsuit was dismissed by a Florida judge – after several days of trial broadcast live on national television.
Gore didn’t like this decision. He appealed to the Florida Supreme Court, which ruled in his favor. Bush, in turn, appealed this decision to the U.S. Supreme Court, which made the final decision – in favor of Bush.
The next day, Gore conceded on live national television. But only after exhausting all his legal options, and having the highest court in the land decide the matter.
Rossi should carefully review his legal options. If irregularities persist, such as King County counting 3,539 more ballots than actual people who voted, then Rossi should contest the election. Only after all legal avenues are exhausted should Rossi, like Gore in 2000, concede the election.
AssInTheDrkestOfPitsLady- your own words condem you. You are some warped person – you just can’t see in the mirror any more.
I am neither a saint or a twit —-just deeply touched by all the suffering. And if that is a problem for you, well some might call it a form of hell on earth – to lack the milk of Human Kindness in a moment of massive horror. And then mock and deride those who feel great sorrow.
I will dwell no longet on the state of your soul, just add it to the trail of sorrows. You would get along with George Bush well…..took days for him to get it….but, then he is on vacation again.
Still fighting old Fidel…..good, good. If they only had some oil, or coffee even – could invade….. Fidel dies, Cuba goes democratic in one year and the Havana beaches re-open. Vacation hotspot for North America.
And the USA will import all those Cuban doctors, teachers and nurses….remember free public education through college for all …good public policy in the 21 century.
Wal – Mart will be first inCuba
Comment by Peter— 1/2/05 @ 2:32 pm
George Bush well…..took days for him to get it….but, then he is on vacation
Sorta, kinda like lefty uber-hero Kofi Annan staying on his ski trip 3 days before responding to the tragedy?
Comment by Richard Pope— 1/2/05 @ 2:17 pm
THANKS!
Comment by Josef— 1/2/05 @ 2:48 pm
I checked the editorials in other newspapers. There were some simply urging Rossi to concede, and others urging Rossi to concede unless there was evidence of sufficient irregularities. However, only the Seattle P-I was urging Rossi to follow Gore’s (supposed) example from 2000.
Of course, the Seattle P-I was about the only major daily newspaper to endorse Gregoire. Does that have any correlation with its editor (Mark Trahant) being dumb enough to urge Rossi to follow Gore’s example, when Trahant doesn’t seem to know a horse’s ass from a hole in the ground?
The other papers can be forgiven for prematurely urging Rossi to concede. The issue of King County having 3,539 more ballots than actual voters is fairly recent news, and has not gotten a lot of press yet, and was probably not considered by those boards when writing their editorials.
Richard–
I’m afraid the Left-wingnut newspapers will never understand reconciling voter lists with ballots counted. It is obviously beneath them! Remember, the end justifies any means including but not limited to cheating (felons, forged signatures, multiple registrations etc.), ignoring generally accepted election management practices (reconcile voter lists with votes counted BY PRECINDT). They are fortunate to have a horse’s buttock like Trahant who will pretend ad infinitum that this horendous lack of voter management control exists in his beloved KingCo. Denial, pretend something didn’t happen that did, fantasy…whatever you want to call it.
I thought the Jounalistic Code of Ethics called for newspapers like the P-I to hold those in power accountable??? Look at the website for the Society of Professional Journalists and look under code of ethics. The P-I didn’t sting Gregoire for the Boeing public information shenanigans…so why would they rain on her inauguration parade?
Mr. Cynical, as a political reporter for The Cardinal a few years ago covering the fall of Ledesma-Reese at Skagit Valley College – although no code of ethics calls for the press to be cynical towards the powerful, I tend to believe reporters – and especially political reporters should take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt.
Oh and how about them Seahawks?
http://www.spj.org/ethics_code.asp
Well, my apologies, Mr. Cynical since you mention the 7E7 cover-up. The ethics code you cite specifically says, “Recognize a special obligation to ensure that the public’s business is conducted in the open and that government records are open to inspection.”
It’s just I didn’t need to read a code of ethics to tell me that.
Hey Cynical and Richard… blah, blah, blah!
Oh… Trahant wrote something you don’t like, so now he’s “dumb.” Oh, the papers aren’t taking Snark’s “research” as gospel, so now they’re unethical.
Well you know what, as somebody who has actually had the experience of being under media scrutiny, who has met most of these reporters and editors, and who has actually had the privilege of having the Seattle Times editorialize against me personally… I have a great deal of respect for most of these journalists, their intelligence and their ethics. I don’t always agree with them, and I sure as hell get frustrated when they get things wrong, particularly after I have made effort to educate them into getting the thing right, but most of them do an amazing job under the circumstances.
Cheryl – the guy is president of the UN – I did not vote for him….or did I miss somethng on my ballot?
I hold US Presidents to a very high standard. And the scrub ranch the President goes to has full comm links to the civilized world nearby. TV-radio-microwaves-and god, e mail.
The problem was the scope of the thing passed over his head. And he needto issue a clear leadership statment immediately from USA – and not token pennies from the wealthiest country – emabarrased us all again.
Japan has trumped the US, sending 500 million.
It’s like using blithely tossing about the word Nazi, Fascist, lynching or Holocaust.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You are wrong, people constantly toss those words around, liberals call conservatives Nazi all the time (when in reality, the DMC follows the guidelines closer), holocaust is contantly used in movie descriptions and any disaster involving fire, as well as facist, wake up and smell the roses….
By the way, in case you havent noticed I dont use the word, a choice, possibly but it isnt part of my normal vocabulary…
Goldy–
So now you’ve lowered yourself to ass-kissing the media types??
Read the code of ethics…they haven’t done even a half-assed job of investigative reporting in this state. Gregoire should have been hammered for withholding the Boeing documents she did. The Public Disclosure Commission has turned into a politic joke…look at the appointees (are they fair & objective???)
And they totally fell asleep on the REQUIREMENTS election officials were to have in place THIS YEAR. Richard & others have outlined them. And they aren’t done. And we have a hell of a mess…but where is the media outrage????
Go ahead Goldy aka “media ass-kisser”, compliment folks for doing a mediocre, at best, job. Who knows, maybe they will stroke your ego and write something nice about you Goldy!!
Comment by Goldy— 1/2/05 @ 5:44 pm
Let me get this straight — you don’t think that Al Gore filed an election contest lawsuit after Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris certified in November 2000 that George W Bush received more votes than Gore and won Florida’s presidential electors?
You also don’t think that Gore lost at the trial court level, and appealed that decision to the Florida Supreme Court, and won at that level?
And instead of Bush successfully appealing the Florida Supreme Court ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court, you probably simply think that the U.S. Supreme Court came up with its decision out of thin air?
And you think that Gore simply decided to concede the election to Bush, instead of fighting the election results in court, since it would not have been in the nation’s best interest to have several weeks of election contest lawsuits and uncertainty over who really won the presidency?
And you probably think that my contrary opinion regarding the existence or non-existence of these same events is just my own opinion, and not some set of facts that can be objectively proven or disproven with any degree of certainty …
The comparison may be unfair, but there is also a whole group of “revisionist” “historians” who believe that the Holocaust never happened. The hypothesis that Gore conceded, instead of suing to contest the election, is just as ridiculous (although, of course, the events that are being denied in each instance are by no means comparable).
Goldy–
I just saw on your previous post “comment” that you were a Ron Sims supporter before switching to Gregoire. Ron Sims??? Why??
Until not, I only suspected you were out-of-your-mind…now I know you are! King County—let’s see:
1) Traffic gridlock everywhere.
2) High taxes and cost of living.
3) Unable to make decisions…and when he does they are goofy.
4) Questionable appointees.
—But he sure knows how to underfund the Election Dept.!!!
Great track record Goldy.
So you want to punish the rest of the State because we aren’t as enlightened.
Did Ron ever pass that Ordinance requiring folks to get a permit to take a dump?
I am quite tired of hearing about how Bush stayed on vacation, or how little the US is putting into the rescue effort. I guess if you want to find a way to hate America First, you will. The US President is never on vacation. Business can be held anywhere, anytime. Do you think the military activity just happened by spontaneous effort? No, of course not, it was ordered by the Chief Executive.
And speaking of the military effort, the value of our troops and equipment distributing aid to the disaster victims trumps all other country’s contributions by several times. I applaud Japan and Europe for contributing to the effort. But, please, it doesn’t come close to our effort, both governmental and private.
I feel sorry for those who see can’t see past their hatred to see really good things happening by their fellow citizens to help those truly in need.
Jnet -Hating America? Huh, cause we have higher expectations that the rubes in DC – Janet, oh please, you got it ALL backward.
But then, you can go grab a flag and cover up any criticsm by waving back and forth rapidly. We wnt America to be number one, the leader, the beacon, not slipshod number 10 maybe.
Are you a vet? Any brass buttons on you belly? I am a Vet. Don’t impune my patriotism at any time.
No body hates anything. You have been convinced that an imperfct world cannot be made better by being honest. Go fool yourself, it is called delusion.
Peter, you seem to have convicned yourself that anything Bush does is another good reason to criticize him. The day after the tragedy nobody in the US understood how huge it was. By throwing the $15 million or whatever the first aid number was back in his face, you exploit the tragedy just as much as those who are criticized. And by griping about Wal-mart above you expose yourself as just another partisan repeating the party line of the day.
I supported Sims because he was willing to provide leadership on the issue about which I am most passionate: tax restructuring. The Sims tax plan was creative and unorthodox. It dramatically lowered the tax burden on all businesses, and 80% of households. It put almost a billion dollars more revenue into state coffers, while saving taxpayers $1.4 billion in federal tax. And it totally wiped clean our cobweb of business tax exemptions, by eliminating both the B&O and the sales tax. It took the most regressive state and local tax structure in the nation, and flattened it to the point were it would have been one of the least regressive.
You may be surprised, but if Sims had won, both Boeing and the AWB were ready to support the Sims plan. That’s right… the AWB would have supported a state income tax!
And talk about cleaning house in Olympia… without billions of dollars of special interest tax breaks to fight over, there’d be quite a few lobbyists looking for other lines of work. (Sorry Jim.)
Yeah, I know that Sims can come across as arrogant. Okay, an asshole. But unlike most of the pansy-ass politicians in this state, Sims isn’t afraid to lead… and sometimes that means doing what he thinks is right, regardless of whether it is popular. Say what you want about Sound Transit’s Light Link rail, but if not for Ron Sims, it would be dead. You can hate him for that if you like, you may think it a terrible waste of money (I don’t), but you’ve got to admit Sims has balls for risking his political career to defend a policy he believed in.
That’s leadership.
Peter – just because someone doesn’t stand on the roof top and shout to the world how great they are doesn’t mean they aren’t doing everything possible to solve the problem. I look at actions, and what I read is that the US, Australia, and India are doing an incredible job getting aid to the victims. That is what counts, not “issuing a clear leadership statement.” For that we have the UN.
I apologize if you took my statement as impugning your patriotism. I had no intention of doing so. If you want to be negative about our response, go for it. We all have the right to our opinions, whether we have served in the military or not.
Hey, are the “vast majority” of people wanting a new election willing to pay for it? Because I sure as hell am not. We’re talking $4 million here, folks. And to think these are probably the same people bitching because the state is on the hook for the hand recount since Gregoire won…. Hypocrisy (and bad spelling) reigns!!!!
Cost is not the issue for me. Grgoire won. The proces is over.
Got a problem — sue. That is the remedy in the law. Are we not a set of communities governed by the laws we put in place by elected councils and legislatures.
Some funny stuff out there. Oh, let’s just do it this way this time. Maybe another way next year. And gosh, just flip coins for all the races, save the cost of voting. Maybe a Lotto for the candidates.
Why vote at all? Rotate the posts to the parties and let them chose.
We follow the law. We voted. It is over. Rossi is out. Gregoire won. Time to move on.
And I forgot one, the army can run the country. Done in many countries. Saves the cost of elections.
After losing the election, Republicans, running dry on conspiracy theories, have no one left to attack and begin eating their own: (Seattle times):
. . .
“How convenient to blame ’emotions’ for the mass discontent within Republican ranks over your handling of the major legal issues in this gubernatorial recount,” Giese wrote to Reed and his fellow members of the kitchen cabinet.
“I am one of those who has no intentions of supporting you in the future either, because you didn’t listen.”
Giese’s e-mail may be the clearest sign of Republican discontent with Reed’s handling of the recount. On talk radio, in conservative blogs and elsewhere, Republicans have questioned his party loyalty, his choice of attorneys, his hands-off approach with county auditors and nearly all the decisions he made that led to his certification of Democrat Christine Gregoire last Thursday as governor-elect by a 129-vote lead.
….
And finally:
Now Reed believes the anger toward him is driven by a feeling he hasn’t been Republican enough. For example, some think he should have backed the party’s call for county auditors to reopen their tallies in hopes of getting more Rossi votes counted.
“There are people who think I should be using the position of secretary of state simply to weigh the scales on the side of my own party. I just don’t accept that, and it would not be proper,” he said.
Well, Sam couldn’t have said it better about Dino’s minions true motives.
Comment by Goldy— 1/2/05 @ 7:53 pm
I tend to agree. He, like Rossi, isn’t afraid to stand up for American values and lead – damn the common wisdom. Rossi’s leading his troops in a fight to the end for democracy, for clean elections, for freedom, for transparent government, I could go on… That’s leadership!
Oh and those crybabies whining about $4 million for a new, CLEAN election – and you want to whine?!? – what kind of Americans are you??? Whine, whine, whine – hey, we can have no elections if you’d like. One chap suggested letting the military run things – sure, we can have that: The klepocrats under Marshal Gregovych! Happy now?!? Watch your civil liberties fly towards the plastic shredders! Whine, whine, whine! Watch the buisness community flee – and me with them if we do not win!
And here’s what gets my proverbial goat: You Gregocrat characters will take over $700K from the county gov’ts of this state – then you crap on us Rossifarians for wanting $4 million for a clean election. You go right ahead and take a 1-way plane ticket to Russia where Vladimir Putin can pat your little heads…
(FYI: As I type this, the Ukrainian protest song plays… and I snap my fingers every time I hear “Yushchenko”!)
Dearest Josef, relax, unwind, listen to your music and wake up tomorrow morning knowing that above all else in this beautiful state, Christine Gregory is YOUR governor. Sweet Dreams.
Josef – the Dems aren’t “taking any money” from the county governments in the strictest sense. They’re getting their deposit back, and playing by the rules – the law of this state. Good luck getting a court to consider your case for an evidence contest with your increasingly paranoid fantasties about the Ukraine. I’m afraid that lawyers don’t consider that a solid legal defense. Maybe stop and take a second to figure out why there are so many theories as to how this election went wrong?
Republicans would have you believe it’s because of staggering incompetence. But the truth is that they can’t get anyone to “bite” on any of their half-baked theories, because there’s nothing behind them. So they keep turning to new ones, hoping you don’t notice it’s all a house of cards. The Supremes can blow it over with words as simple as “failure to provide any evidence to support their allegations”
Christine is your governor. Get used to it.
Comment by jcricket— 1/3/05 @ 8:13 am: The Supremes can blow it over with words as simple as “failure to provide any evidence to support their allegations”
Christine is your governor. Get used to it.
When and IF they do then you, then you can blather all you wish, (which is clearly quite a lot)until then all your ugly words, all your lecturing, all your self serving sermonizing are just more noxious gases in the Seattle air.
Comment by jcricket— 1/3/05 @ 8:13 am
I love seeing Republicans try to claw their way out from the rhetorical hole they dug themselves when they practically screamed for Gregoire to concede and their support of the Supreme Court’s first decision not to re-canvass.
Guess what? You’ve got what you wished for. Supreme Court was unanimous during both cases. Hand recount is definitive. Sam Reed did his job and certified the count. Republicans failed to stop KC in the Supreme Court and failed to persuade even the Republican county auditors with their desparate pleas. Now the media is editorializing for the Republicans to go crawl back in their holes and run again the next election and the Republicans are turning on their own (Sam Reed and the county auditors).
Unless Republicans suddently come up with real evidence (having failed to do so in nearly two months) for a contest, looks like this is as close as the Republicans will ever get to the Governor’s mansion. To top it all off, they had to run an Republican who hid his own right-wing background and have a poorly run Democratic campaign to get even close. Can’t even run openly on your own platform, huh? Some success.
Comment by jcricket— 1/3/05 @ 10:16 am:
Can’t even run openly on your own platform, huh? Some success.
I guess you conveniently missed the article eh?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....re02m.html
“Oh and those crybabies whining about $4 million for a new, CLEAN election -” Clean election? What makes you think a new election would be clean? I sure don’t have that kind of confidence in Washington’s election system, especially not now! Like I say I won’t waste my time on a re-vote, TIME IS MONEY!
Goldy, is correct, Mr. Sims was the best candidate in the race. I voted for him in the primary, as I also feel that going to state income tax and dropping sales tax would help Washington state businesses great big gobs! Sims did have a lot of courage, and I respect him for that! I really like truth tellers even if it cuts their political throats, you can trust those kind of candidates.
Josef —
You think $4 million will buy you a CLEAN election, eh? Well, what the hell was wrong with this one — oh yeah, your guy lost. I guess we’ll just have to keep spending money until you get a result you like, then it will be a “clean” election.
The Ds will get their deposit back because that’s the law and it’s only fair: If the counties had counted accurately the first two times, we wouldn’t have needed to pay for the hand recount.
If you find some honest-to-God fraud, let’s hear about it. Otherwise, shut up and learn to be the loyal opposition since you’re so frickin’ patriotic. Calling her Gregovich or whatever is also silly and sadly misinformed. I like Chris. I worked for her a while back and found her to be tough, honest, fair and frankly almost ridiculously intelligent. I did not find her to be in any way what I would call liberal. She’s actually too far to the right for my taste. So it’s amusing that you all think she’s such a leftie. Makes me realize even more how out of touch the Rs are.
Comment by Cheryl— 1/3/05 @ 10:48 am: -She’s actually too far to the right for my taste. So it’s amusing that you all think she’s such a leftie. Makes me realize even more how out of touch the Rs are.
That’s LIBERAL Cheryl not CONSERVATIVE Cheryl!!!!
Comment by Cheryl— 1/3/05 @ 10:48 am
Be silly and bellicose all you want. But I’d read the papers some more and read SoundPolitics.com AND my favorite blog: http://josef-a-k.blogspot.com – like for instance, the 6 years of vote fraud Josef documented today. That Josef knows more in his finger than you do. Lay off of him, will ya?
your favorite blog???? lmaop. the only posters there are joseph and his doctors. off the meds again huh dearest joseph? you should seek professional help with your delusions.CHRISTINE IS AND WILL BE YOUR GOVERNOR FOR AT LEAST 4, IF NOT 8 MORE YEARS
Dearest Josef, I think you need to slow down with all the back patting conerning your so called blog. You have a total of 6 responses in your last 6 writings, and 3 of them are from yourself. Are you going to Christine’s Ball? I am sure we can get you nice tickets.
Comment by jp— 1/3/05 @ 8:40 pm
Comment by jp— 1/4/05 @ 3:45 am
Maybe it’s you with the delusions… because I reply to all my commenters :-).
Comment by jp— 1/4/05 @ 3:45 am
Me at Christine’s ball – sure, with a fully-loaded MP5 and extra clips. Yeah, sure – swell idea. NOT!
Josef – You’ve really gone off the deep end if you’re now implying your fantasy is to shoot people at the inaguration. Relax – it’s just an election.
Comment by jcricket— 1/4/05 @ 2:34 pm
I was being incredibly sarcastic…