Anybody who thinks I’m uncritical of the Democratic Party, hasn’t heard me ranting on the phone or in email about the pathetic response they have mounted to the Rossi/BIAW/GOP all out PR assault. We’ve been getting our asses kicked for over two months now, and quite frankly, I’m getting rather tired of removing steel-tipped neo-con boots from between my butt cheeks.
Christine Gregoire disbanded her campaign staff the minute Sam Reed certified the election, but Dino Rossi’s campaign continues to go strong. Aided dominated by the considerable resources of the BIAW, Rossi is now the nominal leader of a calculated and dishonest campaign to discredit the entire Democratic party. As George Howland writes in The Seattle Weekly, the Democrats failure to effectively defend Gregoire’s legitimacy could make her win a Pyrrhic victory:
The Republicans recognize they have an opportunity, whether or not they win in court. That’s why their revote campaign is so smart. By whipping up a frenzy, the GOP has left most of Washington feeling like 2004 was a botched election.
I do my best to refute the vicious lies and irresponsible rumor-mongering coming from conservative talk radio and the right-wing blogs, but some days I feel like I’m just pissing into the wind. It’s time for the state Democratic Party to fight fire with fire and money with money… they need to wake up and realize that they are in the middle of a political campaign — rallies, paid media, yard signs and all — however weak Rossi’s legal case might be.
Personally, I could give a shit about public opinion when public opinion is wrong, but I’m not running for office! The Republicans are boldly, loudly and unashamedly lying to voters… because it works. At the rally in Olympia yesterday, GOPolitburo Chair Chris Vance said:
“Hundreds of felons voted, hundreds of dead people voted and hundreds of people voted twice.”
These are LIES, damn it, and Vance knows it! But apparently the public does not, else he wouldn’t keep repeating them.
I am a proud Democrat, and I am sick and tired of being called a cheater and a thief by BIAW thugs and their political puppets in the GOP. I have stood up for the Democratic Party again and again, and it’s time for the Party to stand up for me and the hundreds of thousands of other proud Democrats whose support has never wavered.
Dino Rossi will soon get his day in court. And it’s time us Democrats get our day in the court of public opinion.
We’ve been getting our asses kicked for over two months now, and quite frankly, I’m getting rather tired of removing steel-tipped neo-con boots from between my butt cheeks.
Too funny.
But seriously. The democrats are complacent because they feel like they have won and don’t need to do anything. The typical democratic backers have not been involved in the battle much at all if any. They figure they have done the hard work.
The BIAW on the other hand is extremly anxious to seat a Realtor in the governor’s mansion who will allow them to build anything anywhere and ignore the Growth Management Act and any other type of environmental safeguard. They are almost single handedly funding the PR effort for Rossi.
How about these lies:
The first from MoveOn: “By refusing to concede, Rossi is doing exactly what he has accused Gregoire of doing–ignoring the law and the will of the people.” Contesting the election is most truly legal and the will of the people is reflected in recent polls.
The second from MoveOn: “Republicans are working to undermine the legitimate results of the most accurate election in Washington’s history.” The contest is to undermine illegitimate results. Rossi has stated that he will abide by the courts’ decision.
The third from Gregoire: “Our insistence that every vote be counted is right. It aims to strengthen our democracy and restore a sense of fairness to the process.” By calling for the hand recount, she started us on the path that has given a sense of unfairness to the process. And she knew this would be divisive but did it anyway.
The fourth from King County: “The bulk of the military and overseas ballots were mailed on Oct.7, 2004.” Bald faced.
The fifth from Kirstin Brost: “”This is just the attack of the day from the Republicans.” No, this is the basis for the contest on court.
And how is Democrat hatred for the BIAW more pious than Republican hatred for MoveOn? BIAW has an agenda, so does MoveOn.
The sixth lie (thanks, Eric): calling Rossi “a Realtor in the governor’s mansion who will allow them to build anything anywhere and ignore the Growth Management Act and any other type of environmental safeguard.” Are you saying that he will sieze the power of a dictator, or did you forget that the rest of Olympia is ruled by the Democrats?
I’d agree with your sentiment, Goldy.
Poor Goldy–
You are becoming a pathetic footnote…thru no fault of your own.
Just think Goldy, how exciting it would be for you if the situation where 1800 degrees reversed. That the Dems were behind and it was “right-wing” KingCo that had allowed felons to vote, dead people, multiple votes by individuals, mysteriously similiar hadwriting on groups of ballots, unverified ballots fed directly into the machine, illegally enhanced ballots and 3500+…no 1217…no,no,no somewhere near 1800 more ballots than voters but the right-wing KINGCO Erections Dept. says no big. I’m just warming up Goldy.
The point is, if you were on the right right of the fence Goldy and show some balls about being outraged about some of this stuff your outlook would improve.
I haven’t seen you or your fellow Dems roll-up your sleeves and look for any illegal acts, errors, omissions or neglect. Why haven’t you Goldy? You say you aren’t a Dem shill…but you act exactly like one.
You seem to be like a little fawn standing on the railroad tracks paralyzed by the light of the fast approaching freight-train,
Get off the damn tracks Goldy….save your sorry ass!
The Lefty “Rally” was pathetic. I was there…maybe 150 live goofballs (incl. a bus of Union thugs) plus 20 dead people. And the 150 living people including the 50 voting felons from Pierce Co and 60 voting felons from Snohomish Co.
Get real Goldy. I’m doing a favor for you by continuing to post here. What would it be without my, Chuck, zip and Josef??
Wacko Lefty spinners whackin’ off, that’s what.
Frankly Goldy, I’m disappointed at your lack of outrage.
Sharkansky was awesome yesterday at the rally. He is relevant because of all the hard data and analysis he has done, And he has the truth & righteousness on his side. You are sitting in a perverbial hellhole of incompetence defending indefensible things.
Mr. C. You are really starting to sound like a total Idiot. Shark is relevent because the general public will listen to any fanatic. That is all he is, a die hard neo con FANATIC. He doesn’t face reality and you are quickly joining him in that hell hole. I agree with Goldy that with the bottomless pockets of the BIAW the CONS have ran wild and amuck. The Deocratic has sat on their hands for too long. They do need to act right now like this is a full fledged campaign. This will set the tone for the upcoming elections and IMHO when the NEOCON/Rossi/BIAW suit gets laughed out of the state by the supremes who will be crying then? I do wish you personally good luck because you do have beliefs and fight for them. But reality is a different place.
Actually when you get right down to it, the neocon buzz right now is very similiar to the JIHAD in the middle east. Fanatics through and through going against the grain of humanity
Disagree slightly — Dems were doing fine until she got certified. Afterwards, they just seemed to roll over and play dead.
Bush, in an interview with the Washington Times, says he can’t imagine being president without a relationship with the Lord.
When you have the Lord with you, you are right. The Republicans here seems to know they are right through divine providence.
I thought Washington was a state where critical thinking prevailed…this excersize by the Republicans has me concerned. When Craswell got 40% of the vote it was a sign….now the reality is sinking in.
Go Democrats. Fight for open debate. Fight for the rule of law. Don’t let known and outright lies like “hundreds of felons voted” stand.
Republicans…stand up and discredit this outrageous lie that’s designed to mcreate false chaos where it doesn’t exist (doesn’t the bible teach against lying like this?”)
The dems too often follow the strategy that if you
don’t respond the issue will go away. This was the
apparent strategy with the Swift Boat Veteren’s attacks
on Kerry. I think it was a strategy built on limited,
legitmate news sources, who researched stories. What
we’re getting now in the media is sloppy reporting
(the PI & Times seem to be doing nothing more than
posting press releases as far as I can see) and partisan
blather through talk radio and talk radio adverts.
In this environment, I think you’re right that we
need to fight and not ignore.
bj-too
bj-too – You’re right. The problem is that we Dems tend to constrain ourselves to facts, the truth, and the law. It’s easy for the Republicans to “win” because they’re willing to do “whatever it takes”, no matter how nasty, untruthful or vicious. They don’t care who they smear in the process, and if they f* over their own party members.
I’m not arguing that we should turn into them, but we certainly shouldn’t allow their framing of the debate to win out.
Check out the editorial in the Wall Street Journal today.
Yes, the WSJ seriously questions the revote and court challenge unless fraud can be proven.
That right wing paper — dismisses the vast majority of arguments made by the republicans on the effort.
It also echoes the comments of all the Democrat legislators who commented about the lack of fraud (and were harangued here for such a position).
It says Gregoire did not admit defeat in the first two counts with grace — but that doesn’t excuse Rossi for the same after the third.
This is the Wall Street Journal!!!!!!!!!!!
“John Kerry did the right thing by choosing not to drag the presidential election into court. Slade Gorton made the same choice in the 2000 election. I hope Christine Gregoire will follow their example.” – Dino Rossi, 11/12/2004
Right on Goldy and to the Dem posters. Where the hell is the King Co democratic folks? Silent. Horrible PR work….of late.
This is the Wall Street Journal!!!!!!!!!!!
It suddenly got silent here.
The R’s must be furiously re-reading their John Fund clippings.
Let’s see. Gregoire won the hand recount, KC won the case in Supreme Court and Gregoire was certified by the legislature. Not to mention the “mass revolt” the Republicans claimed would happen, hasn’t. Editorial pages have called on Rossi to concede, letters to the editor have been (at worst) equally balanced.
Really knocks the wind out of their sails to be proven wrong again and again. When the Republicans lose their court case (maybe even twice) I expect them to hear the crickets chirping :)
Right on, Goldy. Republicans think nothing of lying and cheating. It must be inbred in the conservative movement. They’ve been doing it for 12 years now, ever since Clinton became president. They’re actually outraged when voters elect Democrats. They simply want to be dictators and can’t stand it when the voters, the courts and the rule of law drive them out of power.
We Democrats need to keep telling that to the voters. They have no grass roots support at all outside of the tiny minority of right-wing hacks who show up at their mini-rallies. They were the ones yesterday who were paid to show up by BIAW funding, but they go right out and accuse the Democratic counter-demonstration of being the ones who were paid.
They just lie and lie and lie and only your blog seems to be the one public outlet that is telling the truth here in this state.
Keep it up.
James… thanks for pointing out the WSJ editorial. I will reluctantly blog on it.
only your blog seems to be the one public outlet that is telling the truth here in this state..
If that’s true it’s too bad. Goldy desperately needs some help on the blogging front. He can’t do it alone.
That’s not to say there’s not other Demo blogs out there – they just don’t seem to have the fire that Goldy has.
Great job, Goldy!
Hi zip –
We are in agreement that Moveon has an agenda, just as the Wisconsin Brain Injury folks do.
However, the meaning of “lie” is getting diluted in public discourse, I think unfortunately.
If some suggests that the election is “deeply flawed” or “the most accurate in history,” that is a statement of opinion. It isn’t a lie.
If Vance says that hundreds of votes were cast for the dead, that can be a lie or the truth – depending on whether objective facts can be mustered to support the statement. If King County says that the bulk of military ballots were out by Oct 7, that similarly is a verifiable statement.
To the best of my knowledge, the statement by Vance is untrue, based on current information, and the statement of King County is true. But, in the end, you and I can come to agreement on these items, by looking to objective facts.
As to the PR war, I understand Goldy’s frustration, but don’t wholly agree. The Democrats stood firm on not delaying certification. Remember Bush in Florida 2000? They kept pounding the theme that he was the “winner.” This tended to make Gore look like a usurper, a pretender, and played to people’s sense of fair play and desire to have the whole thing done with. The Democrats haven’t been able to take this position until now. The Republicans bussed in 1000 people, after pounding this on talk radio. That isn’t much of a showing.
I don’t think that the Democrats have been in a position to mount the most effective PR war until now. We’ll see what they do. They are working to help Gregoire’s image with her “healing tour.” They are able to mount the same “nothing to see here, folks” campaign that the Bush people did in 2000.
The Democratic position is simple: it’s done, unless a court overturns it, which is unlikely. I don’t think the Republicans have much hope in court. In four years, what will be remembered? Rossi lost in court. Gregoire will have a record and a public image to run on. I think that the Democrats need to get their message out there, but they don’t need to match the desperation of the Republicans.
Am going to the Inagural tonight, with some friends of Goldy’s. I think I will bring maps of Ohio and Florida, to hand out to the protestors looking for a place to find fraud in an election. I pretty sure Vance is asking, why don’t we have the Diebold machines here?
What benefit is there to having Christine Gregoire as Governor, if you look at the progressive ideals that Goldy is promoting on taxsanity.org?
I looked at that website, and was shocked to see that the poorest 20% of the people pay 17.6% of their income in state and local taxes in Washington, while the richest 1% of the people pay 3.3% of their income in state and local taxes. This makes Washington by far the most regressive tax system of any state in the country.
Interestingly enough, the top 20% income wise and bottom 20% income wise in Washington strongly favor Democrats, while the middle 60% income wise slightly favors Republicans (by a smaller margin, of course, than the upper and lower ends favor Democrats).
It is my hypothesis that Democrats — especially the self-described moderates like Booth Gardner, Gary Locke, and Christine Gregoire — who have run this state for the last 20 years — really don’t want to have any change in our highly regressive tax system. Otherwise, the top 20% of the people income wise, whom the Democrats have successfully recruited in the last 20 years for both votes and political contributions would have to pay more taxes. (It is interesting to note that a large share of this high income elite has moved here from other Democrat leaning states, such as New York, California, and Massachusetts, that have less regressive tax systems and would have taxed a much higher percentage of the elite’s income.)
Please note the new taxes that Gary Locke is proposing. Taxes on soft drinks. Taxes on beer. Taxes on medical services. Poor people drink more beer per capita than rich people. Poor people drink at least as much soft drinks per capita than rich people. While poor people often can’t afford to see the doctor, they need health care just as much — if not more — than rich people.
All of these new tax proposals of the Democrats are highly regressive taxes. Poor people spend a far larger percentage of their income on beer, soft drinks, and medical services, and as a result, will be bearing a far higher percentage of the new tax burden.
Another tax that Democrats have supported increasing is the state sales tax. While not quite as regressive as excise taxes on mass consumption items (such as beer, soft drinks, or medical services), the sales tax is still highly regressive. For example, there was an initiative recently defeated to add a penny to the sales tax for education.
Eyman’s initiatives have been more popular when they have dealt with regressive taxes. The motor vehicle excise tax was somewhat regressive actually, and people voted against it in I-695 and I-776. The optional $15 county vehicle tax was highly regressive, and people repealed it in I-776. However, the property tax really isn’t regressive, and people thought that increasing gambling taxes (a highly regressive way to raise money) to reduce property taxes was ludicrous, and rejected I-892.
It remains to be seen whether Gregoire will be Governor for four weeks, four years, or longer than that. The only thing I can predict with any moral certainty is that Gregoire will serve the interests of the elite top 20% who voted for her and gave her money, and will not promote any really progressive ideas. At the same time, she will galvanize the opposition, and the Democrats will suffer major losses in the next statewide election (whether this year or next) and for several elections subsequent to that.
It is hard to map a strategy for actually correcting the system. The GOP is generally strongly against a state income tax — even though a truly progressive tax would hit the top 20% a lot harder than the middle 60%. Quite a change from the 12 years of Dan Evans — a GOP Governor who favored the income tax — even though the top 20% significantly favored Republicans back then.
GOP opposition to a state income tax is not as foolish as it might seem on first blush. The GOP also doesn’t like excessive spending, and an income tax would be seen as a way to significant boost government revenues, and therefore spending. A complete repeal of the highly regressive sales tax and replacement with a revenue neutral progressive income tax would be best for the middle 60% who slightly favor Republicans (and also the bottom 20% who strongly favor Democrats). Of course, the more realistic Republicans might figure Democrats would manipulate any income tax to be a flat rate (tends to be regressive) tax, with certain breaks that would result in upper income people paying an even lower percentage than middle income people.
Anyway, a lot of Democrats see Gregoire as a messiah, when I strongly believe she is a false prophet. What do you expect from someone who really doesn’t have any core principles whatsoever? And to top it off, a lackluster to abrasive personality, and a history of administrative mismanagement.
Richard, I disagree with your characterizations of Gregoire, and your characterization of the Democrats characterizations of Gregoire. Though I admit I have little faith that Gregoire will address the tax structure debate as aggressively as Phil Talmadge or Ron Sims surely would have.
And I agree with your subtext that Republican’s failure to address tax structure is that they understand that fixing the fairness side of the equation will also likely fix the adequacy side as well… and thus maintaining the current system is a useful (if in my opinion, dishonest) means of forcing smaller government on voters.
I also want to voice disagreement with one point of fact and one point of analysis. Whatever its problems, the MVET was in fact a mildly progressive tax, and eliminating it made our structure even more regressive. It was also progressive on the backend, as much of the revenue was redistributed in the form of sales tax equalization payments to poorer mostly rural communities.
And as to support for an income tax, I have seen the Seattle precinct maps of the last time a proposal was put before a public vote, and communities clear voted contrary to self-interest. The highest support was in the wealthiest neighborhoods, where households would surely have seen a net tax increase, and the least support was in the poorer neighborhoods that would have benefited most. I have talked to many Democratic legislators and leaders about this issue, and trust me, it is not a backlash from their wealthier, more educated constituents that concerns them.
Comment by zip— 1/12/05 @ 2:51 am
Well-said. Man, I think the REAL liars are “Governor Dean” Logan and Christine Gregovych.
Comment by Goldy— 1/12/05 @ 11:18 am
#1. Well-written about tax reform.
#2. Why is it then that the poor vote against an income tax? Your thoughts would be welcome.
I could go into great detail on this, but generally I think it is that people in wealthy urban neighborhoods trust government more because they see public services working for them, whereas people in poorer urban neighborhoods do not.
I wonder if her daughters will dress appropriatly for the ball or will it be cuttoffs and a tube top?
I think the WTO analogy is useful.
When the WTO wonks were meeting behind closed doors, we didn’t see counter protesters in business suits in the street saying “let the WTO meet.”
No. Only the people who were angry and had essentially lost the issue were in the streets protesting.
Here, Gregoire has won the election. She will be giving her speech in 9 minutes and will soon occupy the governor’s mansion. Vance has lost every attempt to verturn the election. There is no incentive for democrats to protest. They have won and now they are at work. Its a weekday.
In the Republican world, rhetoric always trumps truth. Ideology is all that matters for neocons. Facts, evidence, reality–these concepts never intrude upon the Republican worldview. Oh, there are actually no WMDs and al-Qaeda had no ties to Saddam? That’s okay, we’ll come up with some other justification for our little invasion. Perhaps the scariest feature of the Bush/Rove/Vance approach to politics is the strident anti-intellectualism that lies at the heart of that approach. Images, symbols, soundbites are all that matter to this breed. Reasoned, dispassionate discourse among people of different political views has no place in the polity which these folks seek. It is saddening, maddening, frustrating. How do you fight back against a foe that scoffs at facts and reason? Fighting on their turf doesn’t seem right. Keep up the good work–great blog.
I think Goldy’s right. Poor people don’t realize how they are essentially taxing themselves by supporting tax cuts for the rich and reductions in government support for the everyday social services they use. The Republicans have actually convinced them of the “big lie” (that “blue” areas take more than they pay out, when it’s absolutely the other way around). But it’s similar to the phenomenon where poor people disproportionately play the lottery. They don’t understand that the lottery is a “tax on people who can’t do math”.
Here’s a good post from pandagon that goes into explaining the apparent contradiction where poor whites vote against their economic self-interest and how it’s core to the Republican Strategy
http://www.pandagon.net/mtarchives/004055.html
In most other countries political parties are roughly divided along socio-economic lines. In this country the “primary feature of the current Republican coalition is low income voters who place cultural (and I would argue heuristic) issues above kitchen table concerns and, in fact, vote for politicians who actively work against their interests… They’ve cracked the code to enact an economic agenda aimed at the wealthy with the complacence — indeed, support — of the poor, which is really quite remarkable if you think about it. But it’s not an accident, it’s a fully-realized strategy.” (Ezra Klein, Pandagon)
Thanks for all you do. I have especially enjoyed this and the previous blog (property taxes), and have learned a few things in the reading of the comments. The level of discourse is in stark contrast to that in the politically conservative blog. Even Chuck’s willful and woeful wrongheadedness, was expressed in decentlanguage on the property tax issue.
As to the loud and angry PR campaign by the Republicans, it has been my observation that it is not when a person is confronted with a falsehood about himself that he gets most outraged, it is when one is confronted with a truth that does not sit well. The truth in this case is that the Republicans lost, in a legal sense, this election, and know that they will likely lose in court as well. Mr. Vance may be particularly outraged because it appears to me he has been outhustled and outmanuevered by his Democratic counterpart.
Hear Hear!!
The PR war is one Democrats have been losing to the Republicans all over the USA. The R’s have a knack for phrasing things in such a way that the innuendo comes through more than anything else – and they keep saying things over and over until it becomes so ingrained it is believed as if it were fact.
There are so many people who have not been following the minute details of the recounts and such, but have heard innumerable times the rhetoric from Rossi, Lane and Vance who planted the seeds of their attacks from the very beginning with comments like Gregoire was trying to steal the election and that they weren’t going to stand by while she did so.
Those of us online with our blogs still only reach a small nitch crowd. Mass media is what reaches those from which public opinion is judged.
Meanwhile, Goldy, why don’t you add a blogroll to your site. It gets a lot of hits and could help get more moderate and liberal voices heard too.
Thanks.
Well I am impressed that her daughters came dressed appropriatly this time, I will take my previous trailer park trash comment back for the time being, I can only assume she had a “chat” with them abot the last attire I saw them in.
Daniel K… good suggestion on the blog roll. I was caught flat-footed by the sudden growth in readership on the site, and haven’t put the time necessary into updating the feature set.
I’ll add one more comment about all this partisanship.
I do not think it is a coincidence that during the same time political blogs have increased in number and readership we have seen a growing divide of partisanship. Blue vs. red, urban vs. rural, etc…
Blogs give voice to the most opinionated of a population. It is not usually the forum of moderation, have too often wrought with hyperbole, rhetoric and mis-information.
Will that change? I hope so.
Meanwhile, for your blogroll consideration, my blog: http://www.kirkdorffer.com/ontheroadto2008/
Well said Goldy and jcricket.
I’m all for anyone who’s willing to blog the truth. Hyperbole fed by raw data is not in anyone’s interest…well except self serving…;0
Please post facts…more folks read than post so you will reach far more than you know.
Fix the election systems nationwide…make them all transparent, verifiable and accessible. My mantra…