VanBlog has posted a letter House Democrats have sent to House Republican Leader Richard DeBolt:
January 24, 2006
Representative Richard DeBolt
Minority Leader
Washington State House of RepresentativesDear Representative DeBolt:
We, the undersigned members of the House of Representatives, have been the targets of your campaign committee in recent days. Because we refused to bring to the floor a bill that had not received a public hearing as of that date, a bill that most members had not even seen or read, we are being accused of “refusing to impose life sentences for violent sex predators.”
It is an egregious lie, frankly, and unworthy of the good people in your caucus.
However, we are not the true victims of this action. Thousands of families in Washington received phone calls and postcards falsely warning of a “violent predator” living in their communities. Parents we’ve spoken with were unnecessarily alarmed; children seeing the postcard were needlessly frightened.
Fear-mongering, exploiting children for political gain, lying to the public
So… who’s running against DeBolt this year? We should field somebody.
I think the Dems should ask the contributors for an apology and then, when those businesses don’t do anything, have trouble getting time for meetings with the jerks and fail to pass some of the little bills they want.
No matter what, once again, the backlash will be far more harmful to the repugs than any benefit they might have gotten with their most ardent *and therefore obviously inbred* supporters.
I love this! I really do. The righties are exposing their culture of corruption better than we can!
Some activists, politicians speaking openly about impeachment
Above link is from the knight-rider news chain.
So, my Republican foes, do you believe that the President broke the FISA? If so, should we appoint a special prosecutor? Have Congress investigate? Do nothing?
I believe there is enough evidence to warrant an investigation, myself. I also believe that this will happen after they confirm that Elvis was sighted in Times Square.
Heck, even with Chris Vance stepping down, they continue to shoot themselves in the foot. You have to admit that the GOP is consistant.
Why apologize for not doing anything wrong? My community is Washington state. Anyone who lives in it is in my community and I would appreciate it if the Dems didn’t hide useful information from me about my community. Thanks.
We know he won’t apologize. Because the traditional media won’t carry the letter. Sigh.
m @ 6,
You are a fucking moron!
I think he’ll speak against the postcards, but deny that it had anything to do with him. I think this may be the decline of their campaign against the democrats on this subject. It’s getting a little hot to handle, and rightly so…
Gerald, LiberalWashington.com
DJ, unless you count his right hand, “m” doesn’t, hasn’t, and unless he comes up with $50 to spend on Aurora Avenue one evening, never will fuck.
2006 will be the year of sweeping reform when the Republicans lose control of congress. This congress is criminally negligent in their oversight duties of the Executive Branch as prescribed by the Constitution.
This president broke the law. Period. In a monarchy the King is law, but in America, the law is supposed to be king. This is/was a nation of laws, but Republicans have no sense of duty, honor, or loyalty. Only loyalty to party and George W. Bush and expressly not the Constitution and the rule of law. Not one of our Founding Fathers would approve of the way the Republican party is practicing the art of politics today — not one.
Republicans bring shame and dishonor to all of those who have gone before us who sacrificed, struggled, fought and died for freedom from tyranny, dictators and oppression.
This recent, and, quite frankly, despicable act of fear mongering the Republicans using as a way to retain power is born out of the Culture of Corruption they have created.
I don’t think the Dems shold hold their breath waiting for an apology from the Reps. They ain’t gonna aplogize.
I think he’ll speak against the postcards, but deny that it had anything to do with him.
Because it’s completely believable that DeBolt’s Chehalis local-boy who just happens also to be the Executive Director of the Speaker’s Roundtable and the Political Director of the House Republican Organizational Committee and who admitted that “there was discussion of an ad campaign even before the vote was taken” would go off the reservation and conduct this big-money campaign on his own. /snark
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11...../newsweek/
“Completely Exposed
Revealing photographs of President Bush and Jack Abramoff turned up in Washington.”
“Jan. 24, 2006 – President George W. Bush found himself embroiled in controversy today with the publication of five photos showing him and disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff totally naked.”
“McClellan said, “These naked pictures of the president and Jack Abramoff are nothing out of the ordinary. In the course of his daily schedule, the president poses nude with dozens of dignitaries.””
I’m sure this will end up as filter fodder before it sees the light of day.
10
Is Aurora Avenue up to fifty bucks now? Or is that a special price for Republicans only?
Ken Schram is about to blast the Repug-li-cons for their sick tactics.
This letter is hilarious. Children are traumatized by it? That’s a lie right there. What, a parent gave their mail to their child, and then said “this scary man is living next door”? Talk about your dishonest campaigns.
The mailing had the desired effect- it got the dems off their behinds and got them to bring this thing up. They are also reevaluating their position on letting 90% of offenders off easy. So far I have seen no testimony from experts that abused children are less likely to come forward if they know there is a long sentence. If they are reluctant, it won’t matter whether the term is 5 years or 25. If the family isn’t supportive, it is irrelevant. So, get the abusers off the streets and away from children.
But, I forgot. The true offense is the postcard with the picture of a scary man.
Janet — why don’t you ask the prosecutors, instead of shooting from the lip with an empty head?
Roger – put up or shut up. Your side is the one saying that the longer term will discourage reporting. Got proof? The repubs are just asking for consistent terms for anyone abusing children. Are you against that?
BTW, since someone brought up FISA. The administration has been briefing congress all along on this program, including who has been tapped. If a US citizen had been caught up in this, the info would have been leaked instantly. But, so far, not a single name of anyone. Could it be that what Bush is saying is true – they are only looking at those in contact with known terrorists?
How much you want to bet DeBolt doesn’t apologize?
Billions and billions of dollars.
Hey Janet S, why don’t you read this article:
Daniel – you have proved my point. The studies aren’t out there, only anecdotal evidence.
I want the monsters off the streets permanently. That way it we won’t have to worry about monitoring them. I suspect it won’t matter how long the sentence, if a family has the opportunity to protect grandpa, they will. We need, as a society, to protect the child.
19
“Roger – put up or shut up. Your side is the one saying that the longer term will discourage reporting. Got proof?”
When sheriffs and prosecuting attorneys line up against the GOP bill and say it will result in offenders going free, that’s proof enough for me. These professionals work with the problem every day, you don’t.
“The repubs are just asking for consistent terms for anyone abusing children. Are you against that?”
I’m for locking up child molesters forever, but we need laws that work in the real world. This advocacy group says the Republicans and Democrats in Olympia are both wrong. http://www.protect.org/
There is indeed a justification for harsher treatment of strangers, because they are far more likely to kidnap and kill the victim.
King5 has picked up this story now.
I agree with you RR, its always bad when politicians presume that their way is right, expecially when the experts are against them.
The Republicans, I believe, never even planned on passing this bill. they saw a tough Democrat bill and wanted to get ‘tougher’ knowing they are going a little too far. The whole thing is sad.
Gerald, LiberalWashington.com
Janet, we should all get behind the prosecutors and support them, but no, people like you are more interested in grandstanding to score cheap political points, than you are in protecting our kids. Shame on you. Shame on your party. Shame on your ilk.
Not the most accurate story, but Komo4 has it now too:
http://www.komotv.com/kenschram/story.asp?ID=41472
Gerald, LiberalWashington.com
Hey Daniel and all you liberals on the wrong side of a law that will protect are children (Jessic’s Law).
Jesica’s law is simple. You rape a minor child and you go to jail for 25 years to life. No special circumstances, no way out. Why change any part of that. All liberals care about is getting help for the criminal. How about we protect the children of this state. We allowed the Judge to make decissions in Vermont and he gave 60 days to a person who raped a girl for 4 years. Liberals in that State still will not pass Jessica’s law because they want to get help for the crimminals instead of protecting the children. We have a huge surplus in the state of Washington (even after Tim Eyman gets the car taxes reduced again) and I bet that the conservatives won’t mind spending some of that on the gps monitoring for the sex offenders. Will the liberals allow that or is there some other welfare program that needs funded that is more important then protecting are children from the worst crimnals out there. Heck in 25 years those devices will probably cost a dime a dozen. If we are lucky the child rapist won’t make it out of prison alive anyway.
Lets see Liberals are on the wrong side of-
Jessica’s Law
Protecting are border
Iraq War
War on Terror
Supporting are troops
and many other items. But these are the reason that the Republicans will keep the senate and the Whitehouse. Now if we can just get the State of Washington on the right side of things and vote conservative.
Here is an example of a FBI apology!
http://homeland.cq.com/hs/flat.....24_fbi.pdf
It’s a proven fact that most sex offenders are republicans.
It’s a proven fact that most sex offenders are republicans.
Comment by LeftTurn — 1/24/06 @ 7:06 pm [Right…That’s why Hillary and the Dems are screaming for voting rights for felons. You’re an idiot!]
Leftturn
Show the proof. The problems with you liberals is you think that if you say it or hear it then it is proven true.
I don’t care what political agenda they have if they rape a child they need to goto jail for 25 years to life. No exception!!!
I’m asking for documented studies, and I’m accused of grandstanding. I’m all for supporting the prosecutors. But, really, if you excuse 90% of the offenders, what is the point? Ken Schram is right! Never thought I’d say that!
I’m asking for documented studies…
Fair enough, Janet. But you are the ones baying at the moon claiming mandatory life sentences will reduce the incidence of these crimes. So where are your documented studies?
Or maybe reducing crime is really not what is motivating your spirited call to spend all of our tax money on these prosecutions, the inevitable appeals, and doling out life sentences like so many GOP federal spending “earmarks”. Using rightwingworld logic, I guess that makes you a scumbag shill for the prison guards’ union, right?
So why do you hate free markets?
4
“But a poll released last week by Zogby International showed 52 percent of American adults thought Congress should consider impeaching Bush if he wiretapped U.S. citizens without court approval, including 59 percent of independents and 23 percent of Republicans.”
23% of Republicans support impeaching Bush if he broke the law? Interesting.
If prosecutors wanted to put serial killers away for life, would Janet ask for documented studies?
29
Hey Will — how’s the Iraq war going? Have you guys won yet? How about the war on terror? Have you guys caught Osama yet? You look like a gang of fucking incompetents.
@ 33, Will_ asks, “Show the proof”. Be glad to. Let’s hold public hearings and bring data, criminological studies, and testimony from victims, prosecutors, and specialists in the field.
Oh. And your side might want to bring some evidence as well. So far on this thread, I have seen absolutely none from your side.
Now why is that?
Proud – are you insane?
I do know that a life sentence will keep that particular person from committing the crime again. It is thinking like yours that has allowed the high number of offenders loose on our neighborhoods.
Really, the comments here are reprehensible. It seems like it is more important to you all to play political games and call me names than to look at the issue seriously. That’s fine – you are the ones that look inane.
“ I want the monsters off the streets permanently. ”
Janet, I agree. And come election time 2006, we will make sure a lot of the sick twisted fuckers get their orders to get out of government. Them Republican sick fucks are going DOWN!
ANd BTW Janet, your posts today are amazing examples of a limp puppet spouting talking points to a public that is quite frankly tired of talking point spouting limp puppets.
Janet squealed, “Daniel – you have proved my point. The studies aren’t out there, only anecdotal evidence.”
Anecdotal evidence??
The prosecutors in that article weren’t telling campfire stories, they were giving real world examples they have personally been involved with.
Furthermore, if you want the studies, then let the studies be completed before ramroding a law that isn’t thought out through the legislature.
Will_ stated, “Jesica’s law is simple. You rape a minor child and you go to jail for 25 years to life.”
Nothing is that simple. In this country you are innocent until proven guilty. So you have to prove that the rapist is guilty, and often you have only the word of the child. Your simplistic statement is all very well if you have proven the case, but the issue prosecutors have with the Republican legislation is also a simple one: don’t tie their hands in doing their job of prosecuting by creating barriers that will dissuade accusers from coming forth, or testifying.
Janet @40 – Ok, if the choice is between convicting say 3 people accused of molesting a child and giving them life sentences, but that means that 7 more will not be convicted because the family would not testify do you do it?
Or is it better to convict 9 out of 10 for 10-30 years?
That is roughly the problem and one that Republicans refuse to address. The pros (cops and prosecuters) say option 2 is better. I listen to them. The Republicans might be playing better politics with kids lives, but the Democrats are trying to craft the best policy here.
Or would you like to accuse me of supporting child molestors? C’mon, get real…
The repubs are just asking for consistent terms for anyone abusing children.
Janet. What was that famous statement about consistency being the hobgoblin of little minds? You exhibit it front and center. What is the goal here?
1. Reduce crime?
2. Promote a political agenda by appeals to fear and emotion?
If your goal is to adopt a social policy to obtain a desirous effect, then you have to bring facts, too. Bring them on. For example, if other states have adopted these guidelines which you espouse solely for their “consistency”, then the inccidence of these crimes should be going down. Correct? So bring the evidence.
Or is it really all about emotional revenge and fear?
Janet, the Republicfucks played dirty:
1. demanding a vote on a bill no one had a chance to even read. DO you want our legislators voting on bills without having read them?
2. using that ethical and brave rejection of a bill foisted on them without a chance to evaluate it, to demonize the ethical legislators to the benifit of the ethically challenged Republicfucks. DO you support this kind of evil political tricks?
Now a couple of questions Janet: Why do you hate law enforcement officers and prosecuting attorneys? Why do you support making it harder to convict sex offenders?
I have a feeling that Janet is against effective prosecution of sex offenders for a very selfish reason….
Proud – are you insane?
Why, no. Are you?
I do know that a life sentence will keep that particular person from committing the crime again. It is thinking like yours that has allowed the high number of offenders loose on our neighborhoods.
The proof is in the pudding, Janet. Bring the numbers to prove that mandatory life sentences will reduce the incidence of these crimes. This is a fairly straightforward request. Show your stuff. Bring the studies that prove YOUR case. Sorry, generalizing from the particular just doesn’t cut it.
Com’on, Janet. Evidence, please.
Peer reviewed studies. You can do it, Janet!
Any fucking thing at all!!! You go, Janet!!!
Are you insane, Janet?
Facts, facts, facts, Janet!!!! Yes. They are pesky things.
Facts, Janet. Try them. You might like them.
Mandatory sentencing has reduced drug crime, right, Janet?
Bring it on, baby!!!
Proud – are you really drawing equivalency between taking drugs and abusing children? Now that is really sick.
Life sentences haven’t eliminated murder, either. Should we just throw in the towel on that as well? I guess you have a judge back east who agrees with you.
And the lenient treatment has done wonders for car thieves. Bring it on! We need to let them all out, as quickly as possible!
Janet you continue to ignore reality. Give it up.
Janet — how many sex crimes have you prosecuted?
Janet, how many sex crimes have you been involved in?
How can anyone take you donks seriously about sex predators. You have a problem in the public schools and you donks give the teachers union a free pass. You deserve everything thrown at you by the GOP. I just wish they would bring these issues up at election time.
Me too… But probably for completely different reasons ;)
Gerald, LiberalWashington.com
Hey DOOFUS, has your employer layed you off while the Moonie or Seattle Times investigates rumors of you molesting minors?
I suspect that your employer won’t want you back even if you’re cleared.
Ah clueless, you probably like it when you were molested by your teacher. How many were there clueless? Come on, no one will tell, you are among donks.
What Clueless, you lost count and have no idea. No wonder you got that name. Poor clueless.
@55:
Janet whines…”now Proud are you really drawing an equivalence..?”
Oh, stop please, Janet with the equivalency thingy. I’m talking about effective social policy here. A policy that gets results. A policy founded on some kind of factual analysis—which, by the way, I notice you still fail to bring to the table.
“Now that is really sick”. You got that right, Janet. Your airy protestations are pretty sick.
Roger here is a read for you and all those girlie-boys. At least the chap is honest with himself and others. Joel Stein I take my hat of to you for what you stand for and believe in even if I disagree with you. My Grandma you to say white speak with forked tongue, but you don’t.
http://www.latimes.com/news/co.....ws-columns
From the Los Angeles Times
JOEL STEIN
Warriors and wusses
Joel Stein
January 24, 2006
I DON’T SUPPORT our troops. This is a particularly difficult opinion to have, especially if you are the kind of person who likes to put bumper stickers on his car. Supporting the troops is a position that even Calvin is unwilling to urinate on.
I’m sure I’d like the troops. They seem gutsy, young and up for anything. If you’re wandering into a recruiter’s office and signing up for eight years of unknown danger, I want to hang with you in Vegas.
And I’ve got no problem with other people — the ones who were for the Iraq war — supporting the troops. If you think invading Iraq was a good idea, then by all means, support away. Load up on those patriotic magnets and bracelets and other trinkets the Chinese are making money off of.
But I’m not for the war. And being against the war and saying you support the troops is one of the wussiest positions the pacifists have ever taken — and they’re wussy by definition. It’s as if the one lesson they took away from Vietnam wasn’t to avoid foreign conflicts with no pressing national interest but to remember to throw a parade afterward.
Blindly lending support to our soldiers, I fear, will keep them overseas longer by giving soft acquiescence to the hawks who sent them there — and who might one day want to send them somewhere else. Trust me, a guy who thought 50.7% was a mandate isn’t going to pick up on the subtleties of a parade for just service in an unjust war. He’s going to be looking for funnel cake.
Besides, those little yellow ribbons aren’t really for the troops. They need body armor, shorter stays and a USO show by the cast of “Laguna Beach.”
The real purpose of those ribbons is to ease some of the guilt we feel for voting to send them to war and then making absolutely no sacrifices other than enduring two Wolf Blitzer shows a day. Though there should be a ribbon for that.
I understand the guilt. We know we’re sending recruits to do our dirty work, and we want to seem grateful.
After we’ve decided that we made a mistake, we don’t want to blame the soldiers who were ordered to fight. Or even our representatives, who were deceived by false intelligence. And certainly not ourselves, who failed to object to a war we barely understood.
But blaming the president is a little too easy. The truth is that people who pull triggers are ultimately responsible, whether they’re following orders or not. An army of people making individual moral choices may be inefficient, but an army of people ignoring their morality is horrifying. An army of people ignoring their morality, by the way, is also Jack Abramoff’s pet name for the House of Representatives.
I do sympathize with people who joined up to protect our country, especially after 9/11, and were tricked into fighting in Iraq. I get mad when I’m tricked into clicking on a pop-up ad, so I can only imagine how they feel.
But when you volunteer for the U.S. military, you pretty much know you’re not going to be fending off invasions from Mexico and Canada. So you’re willingly signing up to be a fighting tool of American imperialism, for better or worse. Sometimes you get lucky and get to fight ethnic genocide in Kosovo, but other times it’s Vietnam.
And sometimes, for reasons I don’t understand, you get to just hang out in Germany.
I know this is all easy to say for a guy who grew up with money, did well in school and hasn’t so much as served on jury duty for his country. But it’s really not that easy to say because anyone remotely affiliated with the military could easily beat me up, and I’m listed in the phone book.
I’m not advocating that we spit on returning veterans like they did after the Vietnam War, but we shouldn’t be celebrating people for doing something we don’t think was a good idea. All I’m asking is that we give our returning soldiers what they need: hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return. But, please, no parades.
Seriously, the traffic is insufferable.
I’m not advocating that we spit on returning veterans like they did after the Vietnam War, but we shouldn’t be celebrating people for doing something we don’t think was a good idea. All I’m asking is that we give our returning soldiers what they need: hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return. But, please, no parades.
Seriously, the traffic is insufferable.
Comment by klake— 1/24/06 @ 8:57 pm
But here in the Northwest we will substitute Veterans parade for the rainbow parade in Seattle.
Oh I get it now DOOFUS. Your employer is a PRIVATE school.
And you’re the janitor, right?
When donks say “it for the children” watch out!!!
I mean anyone with a name like DOOFUS can’t be a coach.
No, that janitor was from a public school and yet another example of how well you donks run the public schools.
Well, sorry DOOFUS, now that you’ve lost your janitor’s job at a private school while the Moonie or Seattle Times investigates rumors of you molesting the kids – I guess you’ll have to settle for coaching little league.
Only with a name like DOOFUS you’ll have to settle for cleaning up or hawking wingnut books at the concession stand.
Everyone that owns property in Seattle pays for public schools yet 40% send their kids to private schools. Why is that? Look no further than Clueless and his ilk for the answer.
Poor DOOFUS
From the Los Angeles Times
JOEL STEIN
Warriors and wusses
Joel Stein
January 24, 2006
[Goldysteinburg…….Is Joe Stein one of your non-military brothers? I’ll bet my home that neither Joe or Goldy served in the AMERICAN military. [Isreal Jewish military services exclded]
I guess youlibs missed the fair and balance report on the Washington death tax…highest in the entire nation…19%
once again…highest in the nation!
I notice that Insight magazine, an outlet of the Washington (Moonie) Times, is running this headline:
Impeachment hearings: White House prepares for worst
Comments?
How about this one:
WASHINGTON, Jan. 24 – The Bush administration, citing the confidentiality of executive branch communications, said Tuesday that it did not plan to turn over certain documents about Hurricane Katrina or make senior White House officials available for sworn testimony before two Congressional committees investigating the storm response.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01.....r=homepage
KLake: I read that story this afternoon. I was appalled that he actually wrote this: “I’m not advocating that we spit on returning veterans like they did after the Vietnam War”
Now, all you whom accused of people like prr, righton, and others of spitting on veterans… Here is a premiere lefty reporter/columnist of the beloved LA Times MSM gang telling it like it was back in the Vietnam War days. Now you lefties on HorsesAss; will you finally admit it was lefties who did the veteran spitting?
MWS – What freaking planet did you drop in from?
UpChuck @ 77: My first instinct is to believe that like I believe the Republicans who said it takes family farms.
Even if it’s true, just put in an income tax like 40 some other states have and it can be lowered.
For the Clueless, do you write for yourself or does an orangutan, chimpanzee, or gorilla write for you? If you read the words written by Joel Stein stupid, you would have determined that he wrote it. Are you really that freaky Clueless? Clueless, if you have been reading the HorsesAss threads for months, prr, righton and others have been accused of spitting on VWV returning home. Did you miss that memo? Check with RR and GBS; I’m sure they will resend it to you.
BTW, I am an Earthling, resident of the third planet from Sol, citizen of the United States. What are you besides Clueless?
Clueless: Read this interview. http://radioblogger.com/#001332 It may help clear out the cobwebs from that mighty fertile mind you possess!
83
“Clueless, if you have been reading the HorsesAss threads for months, prr, righton and others have been accused of spitting on VWV returning home.”
That’s right, I accused rightwing nuts of (figuratively) spitting on Vietnam vets.
But let’s talk about the real issue, MWS. War kills people and destroys things. War is a horror, and should be fought only when necessary. So how do we determine when or if war is necessary? Not by stirring the emotional pot with dirty lies. Throughout history, nationalistic/militarist rightwing flag wavers have been the warmongers with oceans of blood on their hands. They still are today. People like you have much to answer for. God is going to punish you.
test test test
prr [i]spits[i] on Vietnam veterans
test test test
prr spits on Vietnam veterans
test test test
prr spits[i] on Vietnam veterans
test test test
prr spits on Vietnam veterans
test test test
prr spits on Vietnam veterans
anybody know how to turn the italics off?
Roger Rabbit is learning a new computer skill
RR, I am not good with italics But here is bold
prr spits on Vietnam veterens
glad I could help
I misspelled “veterans” Let me rectify that faux-pas
prr spits on Vietnam veterans
RR: Where has the “figuratively” spitting inference appeared in a thread before today? You entered into revisionist history like your friend Cindy Sheehan? You flat out accused people of spitting on VWV and there wasn’t any “figuratively” inference referenced to the readers! A yeoman’s effort though Roger!
Roger view the yeoman’s
Now, I think I need to correct us both. The actual pertanent fact is
Bush, Cheney, and all their staff and neocon kool aid drunk supporters spit and piss on Iraq War veterans. They cut their pay, do not fund their promised body and humvee armour, never attend a funeral, lie them into harm’s way, underfund their VA hospitals, throw them onto the streets when they are maimed, and have no plan to help them get the fuck out of the Iraq Civil War.
MWS, the neocons of today are the hippies of yesterday who spit on the Vietnam veterans of yesterday.
You really need to put the kool aid down and watch what is happening in the real world.
Donnageddon, somehow I don’t remember viewing the nightly newscasts with Dick Cheney or Paul Wolfowitz or John Bolton or other NEO-cons with long hair smoking marijuana. I do remember some of the today’s leaders on your side toking!
The US demands an apology
Deaths in Iraq by member of the “coalition†of the willing
USA – 2236
UK – 98
Australia 1
Bulgaria 13
Denmark 2
El Salvador 2
Estonia 2
Hungary 1
Italy 27
Kazakhstan 1
Latvia 1
Netherlands 2
Poland 17
Slovakia 3
Spain 11
Thailand 2
Ukraine 18
Source: http://icasualties.org/oif/
MWS
Citations please!
And how the neocon-hippie spit on yesterday and today’s veterens has to do with pot… is only in your feeble mind.
But then you were likely too high at the time to notice.
No, Mr. Environmental Chemist, I was in Elementary and Jr High School at the time. Didn’t know about drugs except from watching your friends do them. Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Jerry Garcia, other potheads and bands of the 60s, the Weathermen, the Summer of Love in SF, Woodstock Generation in New York. How about Tom Hayden, one of the founders of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS)? In the 1960s there were plenty of radical liberal parents. Some of these parents were veterans of the Pre-WWII Socialist or Communist parties. You know friends of yours!!!
While your friends were performing those acts I remember Czechoslovakia. 1968 was the year of Alexander Dubček’s Prague Spring. Don’t you remember your Commie buddies invading Czechoslovakia? Funny I do!
While your friends were performing those acts I remember Czechoslovakia. 1968 was the year of Alexander Dubček’s Prague Spring. Don’t you remember your Commie buddies invading Czechoslovakia? Funny I do!
Comment by Mike Webb Sucks— 1/25/06 @ 1:39 am
Mike I remember that day I was preparing F4 Phantom’s in Germany to stop the Russians. We loaded Napalm, 500 pound and 1000-pound bombs under those planes incase the Russians cross the border into Germany. One week later, we lit the Czechoslovakia border up wit Napalm for about three miles. The Russian Army left Prague thinking we were invading the country. They met the US Army at the border very short on supplies and wondering when we were going to hit their armor. We sat there for weeks looking at each other while the Russians stole food out of the rail cars. The Czech’s now had an escape route in the North into Germany to gain their freedom.
MWS or it (Puddy “Freep”)?
There was no actual spitting on vets. It’s an urban legend. It’s a wingnut myth and you are a wingnut. You care nothing about truth, only your twisted ideology.
This Stein guy was never questioned directly about the truth of any spitting incident on Vietnam vets. He may have been speaking figuratively or he may have bought into the myth like you have, HOOK, LINE and SINKER!
Let’s talk about history. I know PRR called RR a “baby killer”. That is spitting on a Vet, figuratively, IMO.
MWS/PuddyFREEP:
Again you should change your comment handle to READING COMPREHENSION SUCKS!
MWS, the best example of what happens if you do not ween your child until they are 17, said
then when citations ore requested of some of the today’s leaders on your my toking the congenital moron came up with this list
I think even the most drunk neocon will notice that other than the generalities of potheads and bands of the 60s, the Weathermen, the Summer of Love in SF, Woodstock Generation in New York. (who are all neocons now) the mentally challenged MWS referred to as “leaders of today”.
These “leaders of tody”, my dear friend, MWS, are all DEAD .
Therefore, since they are all braindead, they could only be “Your leaders”.
MWS/RCS’s recent comment about Stein is illustrative of the wingnut SOP. When a lefty speaks figuratively it’s a golden opportunity for the wingnuts to crank up the mighty Wurlitzer and spew right-wing bullsh*t like a pack of unhinged, whacked-out hyenas.
Then when someone calls them on their bullcrap, it’s time for the epithets: stupid or some variation on a simian species. It’s just projection. Their greatest fear is to be exposed as mindless kool-aid drinkers, hopelessly addicted to the never-ending stream of lies flowing from the right-wing noise machine.
99
“Donnageddon, somehow I don’t remember viewing the nightly newscasts with Dick Cheney or Paul Wolfowitz or John Bolton or other NEO-cons with long hair smoking marijuana. I do remember some of the today’s leaders on your side toking!”
Yes, I understand how you might be uninformed about this topic. It does seem strange, doesn’t it, that longhairs of the 60’s are today’s white-shirted buzz-cut cigar-chomping Republicans? And the party of Lincoln, Harding, and Eisenhower has turned into a Trotskyite party? That’s what money does to people. Their radicalism hasn’t changed much; they merely figured out that fascism pays better than socialism. As socialists or communalists, they had no sugar daddy, but as fascists they have plenty of sugar daddies (e.g., Richard Mellon Scaife). Here’s a little info to help you improve your understanding.
http://www.enterstageright.com.....trotp1.htm
http://www.majority.com/news/jeet1.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/got.....ied46.html
http://www.chroniclesmagazine......72303.html
http://www.peaceaware.com/NeoCon.shtml
103
“Some of these parents were veterans of the Pre-WWII Socialist or Communist parties.”
You mean back when capitalism collapsed and 25% of Americans were unemployed?
I don’t recall being spit on, but I do remember being approached by protestors at Sea-Tac, and being a little nervous as there were no cops around. And I remember one conversation on a Seattle bus in which a passenger made reference to babies being killed in Vietnam. I think it is, in fact, a little revisionist to suggest Vietnam War protesters greeted returning veterans with hugs and flowers. The country was divided (as now) and many of the anti-war people did see soldiers and veterans as part of the “they” group.
However, MWS, here is something for you to think about, as by your own admission you are too young to remember. The biggest problem I had as a Vietnam veteran was employment discrimination. After returning to CONUS, I quickly realized I couldn’t get work unless I concealed my veteran status. And guess who the assholes were who turned their backs on the returning veterans, called them “candy asses,” wouldn’t hire them in their businesses, etc.? The World War 2 American Legion types and white-shirted, buzz-cut Republican businessman types, that’s who. There is no group that was more antagonist to Vietnam vets or hurt them more than the middle aged conservative Republicans who controlled the jobs and hiring, and set the tone for how society would treat veterans. They absolutely turned their backs on the kids they sent to war.
Curiously enough, I WAS spit on during the Viet Nam Conflict. But I wasn’t a Veteran, but active duty Navy at the time. I was in San Diego, waiting for a bus to go up to San Diego State to see an old girl friend. At the time, I took it to be part of the general hostility of San Dieganos toward Navy types. . . I was wearing the uniform and was off the Rez. . .you know the signs “Dogs and Sailors Stay Off the Grass”.
Roger – maybe you couldn’t get a job because you are an arrogant a$$hole, and it came through loud and clear in the interviews! Good thing you were qualified for govt work!
113
Nice, Janet. You’re good at empty-headed, know-nothing, shoot-from-the-lip nonsense. Why don’t you ask a couple Vietnam veterans you know (hmmm … maybe you don’t know any) what it was like?
@ 113
Excellent point Janet.
This reminds me of a Bill Cosby comment where he talks about Cocaine use and it’s ability to amplify your personailty.
His response to this, yes, but what if you are an asshole?
There is no doubt in my mind that RR is the biggest ass I have ever had the burden of listening to. His problems in life have nothing to do with being in the Service…
Additionally, I really appreciated this thought as well…
” I don’t recall being spit on, but I do remember being approached by protestors at Sea-Tac, and being a little nervous as there were no cops around. ”
Spoken like a true warrior.
103
“other potheads and bands of the 60s”
This is a little too vague to respond to, but here are some interesting facts about certain 1960s figures:
Abbie Hoffman (actually a 1970s figure) — Hoffman suffered from bipolar disorder, not pot addiction, and committed suicide at age 52;
Jerry Rubin changed his political views after Vietnam, became an entrepreneur and businessman, and was killed by a car while jaywalking at age 56;
Jerry Garcia is described by Wikipedia as a “libertarian” who did not take his iconic role as a “guru of the psychedelic movement” seriously; he was simply a successful musician who struggled with drug addiction and sleep apnea, and died of heart trouble at age 52;
Tom Hayden — now 66 years old, became a politician (serving 18 years in the California legislature, and running unsuccessfully for U.S. Senate and Los Angeles mayor), had a penchant for marrying rich actresses, and is one of the very few prominent 60s activists who remained true to his leftist views, most recently by teaching a course in social movements in Fall Semester 2005.
115
“Excellent point Janet.”
No, merely mindless name-calling, but I do it too, so who am I to complain or criticize an idiot like Momus the Pompous Assus?
Hi Roger,
New article on Debolt in the Olympian….
http://www.theolympian.com/app.....S/60125002
He offers NO apology!
115
“RR is the biggest ass I have ever had the burden of listening to”
Why, thank you!!!
115
Good to know I’m getting to you, M.P.A.*
*Stands for Momus Pompous Assus
115
“‘I don’t recall being spit on, but I do remember being approached by protestors at Sea-Tac, and being a little nervous as there were no cops around.’ Spoken like a true warrior.”
Why don’t you try walking down MLK Way at 3 a.m. and see what it feels like. You might be surprised by how subdued your own warrior impulses can become.
i know that when you speak of child abuse the first inclination is to say: “punish them as hard as you can uniformly and in all cases!” but, as with everything, there are grey areas. for instance is the person who mistakenly sleeps with a woman a month away from her 18th birthday the same sort of offender as the catholic priest who abuses a 12 year old altar boy?
obviously,not…. there needs to be firm punishment but enough flexibility to address each case on its individual merits.
1118
“New article on Debolt in the Olympian … He offers NO apology!”
That figures. I guess he doesn’t know better. Which is understandable, given how clueless the average Republican legislator is.
So, Mac, why are you against our prosecutors, and in favor of letting child molesters go scot free? Is it because sticking to your ideology is more important to you than whether something actually works in the real world? Could this kind of thinking have anything to do with how we got bogged down in the Iraq quagmire?
122
Clay — if you’re asking wingnuts to apply critical thinking or sound judgment to real problems … that’s asking too much. It’s beyond their capabilities.
mac@118
That article is quite a read…. terrible.
Hey roger, maybe you shouldn’t put words in her mouth… I don’t think sgmmac has taken a position on this yet :p
clay@122: The answer is to let judges and prosecuters do what they’re paid to do… Make judgement calls. I love how a basic presumption of the Republicans here is that all the Judges and Prosecutors in the state don’t want to prosecute sex offenders
Hmmmn, I see I wasn’t logged in @112. h,well.
oh yeah, rr…. dunno if you figured it out, but /i in the formatting brackets ends italics
Clay,
Jessica’s Law will punish them differently. It will give 25 years to life for any one who rape a child 14 years old or younger. At that age there is no gray area. Punishment is the only answer.
will: I’ll say it again, why not let prosecutors do the jobs they were hired to do? do you think they WANT to let sex offenders off easy?
Emotion != rational thought, people.
“Why don’t you try walking down MLK Way at 3 a.m. and see what it feels like. You might be surprised by how subdued your own warrior impulses can become.”
Wow RR, I had no idea you were racist.
Why MLK, because of the African American polulation?
As a black man, I take exception to your comment. Why don’t you grow up and drop the klan robe?
Let me guess RR, you are one of the Seatlle “liberals” who preach equality and have never even met a balck man, unless it’s for a photo opportunity?
Roger,
I am NOT against prosecutors, I just don’t happen to agree with them on this. They have a nasty habit of not wanting to prosecute anything that they think isn’t a grand slam and gets them lots of press coverage.
Currently in Washington, the family & friends molest*rs get the option of pleading guilty, getting 6 months in jail, getting treatment and going back home.
There are many females/children who don’t report this abuse because they are deathly afaid of retaliation. If the abuser isn’t removed from the house or access to the child denied, the abuse won’t be reported. Komo had several females quoted as saying that if they had known that their family member abuser would have gone to jail, they would have reported the abuse.
It is never one size fits all, Our laws have to be changed. My daughter went to the website for our counties sex offenders and it was disgusting how many there were and how many had unknown whereabouts!
Windi
Prosecuters will decide to take the defendents to trial. But they only can suggest a prison term. The Judge is the one with the final word. If that Judge has no choice but to give a child molester 25 years to life when found guilty Then we will not have to worry about some Judge deciding 4 years of raping a little girl (6yr old to 10)is only worth 60 days in jail.
Just so you know a Democratic Senator introducing Jessica’s Law and is trying to pass it as a Federal Law.
It seems that everyone has decided to divide America based on Democrats or Republicans. I personally think both sides are hurting America and the American people need to step up and tell the politicians enough is enough. Politicians from all sides need to do what is best for the country not what keeps or puts them back in office. I say next election get rid of everyone who has been there before by voting for a new politicians (on any side) to take there place. Maybe then they will do what is best for Washington and America. Not just there political party.
Momus, you are an IDIOT.White or black. That’s my neighborhood. At 3 A.M on MLK was the only place I heard light automatic weapons fire away from a) a battle field or b.) a weapons range. That bullet has no race.
Will: Short version of your blather:
Will thinks judges would give child abusers 60 day sentences
See how dumb that is?
windi
you must be the dumb one. Or you just right without any knowledge. That just happened in Vermont! Because the judge didn’t think he would get treatment in jail. Look it up then open your mouth!
Bullshit Tree frog…
There are pletny of neighborhoods in this city where gunfire is heard, be that Capitol Hill, the Central District, Pioneer Square, Rainier Valley, Federal Way, etc…. This stuff happens all the time
So saying that this is the only place you can hear this is a complete lie.
Roger, Windie,
I want Jessica’s law passed. But…. I do want it to apply to intercourse with a child. I don’t want to see someone go to jail for 25 years for example,, exposing themselves to a child.
Windie, many sex offenders in Washington are getting 30 days in jail by pleading guilty. We have judges all over this country who are doing outrageous things. We have prosecutors who plead everything under the sun and refuse to prosecute the majority of their cases.
Windie – do you read the papers? A guy on the east coast got exactly that for 4 years of mole$ting a little girl. That’s what disgressionary sentencing gets you.
I agree with sggmac. If I was a child who had been abused by someone living in my house, and I know the abuser will likely be back in six months, am I going to cooperate? I doubt it.
That’s why there seems to be a necessity to get the child away from those who are enabling the abuser.
Then put the abuser away for the rest of his natural life. I don’t want him moving in next door to me when he is released. For those of you who want short sentences, are you offering to let the guy live in your extra bedroom?
131
“I am NOT against prosecutors, I just don’t happen to agree with them on this.”
Oh, I see. You know enough about the issue that you feel confident about substituting your judgment for theirs, as to how best to protect society from sex predators?
“They have a nasty habit of not wanting to prosecute anything that they think isn’t a grand slam and gets them lots of press coverage.”
Here is where you show yourself to be a true wingnut. This is a cheap shot, Mac. Our state has, by and large, dedicated and hardworking prosecutors who are very competent and professional at what they do. I’ve known a few, and they are not glory seekers or publicity hounds. Of course there’s press coverage of trials in high profile cases, and prosecutors can’t ignore the occasional presence of media glare any more than other politicians can (prosecutors are elected officials in Washington). But this comment truly puts on display your nearly complete ignorance of the criminal justice system and how it works.
Mac, prosecutors have an ethical duty to avoid bringing unwarranted charges against innocent people. They are required to review the evidence and determine probable guilt before filing charges. Our legal system is designed to protect the innocent from wrongful conviction, and getting a conviction requires proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and the unanimous verdict of a 12-person jury. That is a tough standard to meet, and prevents questionable cases from going to trial.
Another facet of our justice system is that prosecutors and courts simply do not have the resources to try every criminal case, nor do we have sufficient prison space to incarcerate every offender. Without plea bargaining, the system would break down. In many cases, the evidence does clearly point to a suspect, but there may be sufficient difficulties of proof that it is in society’s best interest to trade a lower sentence for the certainty of a conviction than to run the risk of the probable perpetrator being set free by an acquittal.
Child molesting cases illustrate these problems very nicely. Often there is no tangible evidence and the case rests entirely on the say so of a child witness. Children are notoriously suggestible, and even sympathetic juries may be rightfully suspicious of the reliability of a child’s testimony. Children do not have fully developed memories, and their account of an event typically changes in every telling. This is not the sort of evidence that a fair-minded juror wants to rely on for the purpose of sending someone to prison for life. Remember the “recovered memory” scandal, in which people were encouraged to “remember” things that never happened, and a number of innocent people went to prison (including parents, based on the pscyhologically programmed testimony of their own children)? Do you sanction that? Do you want that to happen? It is as important to not convict the innocent, as it is to convict the guilty, and in sex cases it often is hard to tell which is which.
The difficult issue of protecting society from genuine predators, while avoiding witch hunting of the innocent, is one for serious professionals to address — not uninformed dilettantes like you.
Momus, you are still an IDIOT. Learn to read. Where did say that was the only place gunfire, auto or otherwise, takes place?
We should especially prosecute the child rapes which result in the pregancy of the victim.
http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehsphl/c.....2004a4.htm
In 2004, there were 94 births to girls under the age of 15. Three of these young girls were having their second girl, and one was having her third child.
Second degree child rape — which the GOP wants to punish by 25 YEARS TO LIFE — is having sex with someone under 14 years of age. Probably most of the girls who gave birth at less than 15 years of age got pregnant when they were less than 14 years of age.
Also note that there were 2,007 births to girls 15 years to 17 years of age in 2004. Many of these girls were less than 16 years of age when they got pregnant, which would be third degree child rape.
Genetic DNA testing of the victim and the baby should be done whenever an underage girl gets pregnant, and the rapist should be prosecuted.
We should also require genetic testing when an underage girl gets an abortion.
http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehsphl/c.....2_2004.htm
There were actually 227 girls under the age of 15 who got pregnant last year. 130 had abortions, 3 had stillbirths, and 94 had live births. All of the men who raped them should be prosecuted through DNA testing.
Roger,
The problem is child sex offenders are not getting the jail time they deserve. Prosecuters agree that most victims would never testify if the sex offender gets out after 1 year or less. If a prosecutor wants to negotiate because they can not convict them of a child rape crime then they could still negotiate it to another crime. But when a victims testifies in court and the 12 man jury finds them guilty. That is when Jessica’s Law has to step in and mandate he gets no less then 25 years in jail. With the first offence no second chance. Why you think it should be less makes no sense to me. Protect the victim not the crimminal.
All the apocryphal stories about judges and prosecutors don’t confront the problem of getting the kid to report the abuse in the first place.
That’s what the Democrat’s bill is attempting to deal with.
You can have all the ineffectual, feel good laws on the books you want, but if the victims won’t come forward with complaints, they’re just words on paper.
Two 13 year olds have sex and the male gets prosecuted for rape?????
144
I agree and they won’t come forward with step daddy still living in the house rap*ng them every night while mom is at work.
Tree frog,
It’s my neighborhood too and I am proud of it.
As to where you said it…
“That’s my neighborhood. At 3 A.M on MLK was the only place I heard light automatic weapons fire away from a) a battle field or b.) a weapons range. That bullet has no race.”
While you mention that this is the only place YOU have heard it, your implication is that is that this is common place. It’s not, but it does happen at times, just as it does in many areas of the city.
RR’s implication is that if you are looking for a bad neighborhood in Seattle, MLK is the place to go.
Personally, I see it as a place that families are to be found. Our block has tree lined streets, two parks within walking distance, we know all our neighbors and our kids have a playing field across the street.
RR statement of “Why don’t you try walking down MLK Way at 3 a.m. and see what it feels like. You might be surprised by how subdued your own warrior impulses can become.” is at it’s very core a racist statement and his denial to address the subject implies his own guilty.
“Why don?t you try walking down MLK Way at 3 a.m. and see what it feels like. You might be surprised by how subdued your own warrior impulses can become.â€
Wow RR, I had no idea you were racist.
Why MLK, because of the African American polulation?
As a black man, I take exception to your comment. Why don’t you grow up and drop the klan robe?
Let me guess RR, you are one of the Seatlle “liberals†who preach equality and have never even met a balck man, unless it’s for a photo opportunity?
Comment by momus — 1/25/06 @ 9:29 am {Is it racist for Roger Rabbit to say that most streets named MLK Jr Blvd are not safe, day or night time? Just asxing?]
137, 138
Mac, Janet — we all want to protect children from molestation. Unfortunately, the Republicans have chosen to politically exploit the issue by falsely accusing the Democrats of being soft on sex crimes. Unfortunately, the Republicans are supporting unworkable legislation that prosecutors say will hamstring their efforts to protect our communities from these criminals. The Democrats are making good faith efforts to do exactly that, and do not deserve to be smeared for wanting legislation that will be effective (or at least partially effective). This brouhaha illustrates the conservative penchant for black-and-white solutions that look good on paper but fail the test of reality. The problem of crime in human society predates recorded human history, and no one has ever solved it. Crime-free societies have never existed and probably never will. To a significant degree, societies can deal with crime only after the fact. Even societies noted for imposing harsh sanctions have crime; although Saudi Arabia’s crime rate is far lower than hours, that country had 56 murders and 340 cases of attempted or threatened murder in 1988 (for about 1/15th of the U.S. population, so this is equivalent to about 840 murders a year in the U.S.).
All sex criminals are not the same, nor an equal threat. The most dangerous are strangers who lure children for sex, because these victims are at especially high risk of being abducted and murdered. a family member who molests a child is far less likely to physically harm the child, although the emotional and psychological harm is real and long-lasting, and certainly shouldn’t be understated.
Prosecutors, social workers, psychologists, and other professional experts agree the most important thing with respect to family molesters is to identify them and get them into the tracking and treatment system. The law should deal with the stranger-stalker harshly when he is caught, and that is what existing and proposed laws do. There is simply too much at stake to knee-jerk this issue or use it for political grandstanding. Many Republicans may have good intentions in pushing for tougher laws, but by being closed minded, they are hurting rather than helping law enforcement’s efforts to protect kids from these criminals. Our existing laws are not perfect and can be improved, but that is not an excuse for throwing reason to the winds and enacting something that will be counterproductive. You’re either on board for a constructive approach to the problem, or you’re part of the problem, and right now much of the Republican community seems hell-bent on the latter.
Momus, Do you support Senator KKK Byrd? Do most blacks? Do you support Hillary [“Plantation, And you know what I be talkin about!”] Clinton? Do most blacks?
141
“Probably most of the girls who gave birth at less than 15 years of age got pregnant when they were less than 14 years of age.”
Geez, Richard, is this what you wrote on the bar exam?
ok gotta requote that:
“Probably most of the girls who gave birth at less than 15 years of age got pregnant when they were less than 14 years of age.”
That might well be the most brilliant thing I’ve read this week.
Props to RP!
141 (continued)
Actually, Richard, there is good logic behind what you say in this post. If a girl gets pregnant, it’s pretty damned obvious a sex act occurred, isn’t it? No proof problem in this case! And unless you believe in divine conception, a man has to be involved, right? No proof problem there, either, because DNA will finger the culprit with near-100% surety. Yeah, if a kid gets pregnant, and DNA shows uncle or grandpa did it, there’s no reason not to throw the book at ’em. Maybe a decent compromise is to provide for tougher penalties for family molesters if the child gets pregnant — not because the crime is worse, but because you don’t need the child’s cooperation or testimony to prove guilt.
This is probably one of the best arguments you’ve ever posted on HA, Richard.
Another reason for tougher penalties in cases where the child gets pregnant is because, unless the child is aborted, the result of the crime (i.e., the child) will be a part of the victim’s and family’s lives for the rest of their lives.
JCH @ 148…
“Is it racist for him to say that all streets called MLK are unsafe?”
Well, It certainly is a generalization that applies one specific ethnity, isn’t it? Generally, Street named MLK are found within African American Communities, are they not?
@150…
Well speaking for “MY” people, I would say, ask us individually. We do have independant thought.
Personally speaking….
I’ll not comment on Byrd as I think my answer is obvious.
As for Hillary Clinton, while I don’t trust a word that comes out of her mouth. I will say that if there has ever been a person that was able to overcome bad situations and come out smelling like a rose, She has definitely done that in the past. However, in my opinion, her comments reagrding plantations were a desperate and pathetic act.
Rent “The Woodsman” with Kevin Bacon.
It deals with some aspects of child abuse that would be good for everyone to think about.
143
I don’t necessarily think it should be less, although it’s important to remember there are degrees of crime. The reason for Jessica’s Law is Jessica was murdered. Applied to perps who are likely to abduct and kill children, 30 years is not enough, they need to be removed from society permanently. But 30 years for an uncle or brother who fondles a girl? Even many victims and their families would say that’s too harsh. Penalties should be proportionate to the harm, and to the threat posed by the criminal. As for how to best achieve the object of protecting children from sexual exploitation and violence — something I would hope we all want to do — all I’m saying is I’m no expert in this field and defer to those who are, and it does appear to me that Republicans are irresponsibly gaming the issue for crass political purposes.
Voter Advocate sums up my concerns in #144.
Roger, I agree with critcisms of the political actions. Rep Brenden Williams are sponsoring legislation to take away a rail line sale in Debolt’s district…. Politicians don’t play nice these days and it hurts all of us here in Washington and in the other Washington too.
A lot of those stalkers specifically target single women with kids to establish a trust relationship to abuse the kids. It is happening more and more. Become the breadwinner and you get kids to molest.
Even though Washington has the toughest civil committment laws for sex offenders, it didn’t save the Groene family or the little boy in Southern California that Eric Duncan killed and they think he killed two girls here in Washington. Had Duncan been released with a ankle “bracelet” and tracked, would those innocent people still be alive? He is the most glaring symbol of this state’s failed programs.
I have personal experience with sex offenders and I am sure you do too. The majority of these cases are never reported, hell, they were never even discussed 50 years ago.
145
“Two 13 year olds have sex and the male gets prosecuted for rape?????”
The definition of statutory rape varies by state. In all states, sex with a partner below age 13 is presumed coercive, and is a crime. In some states, whether consensual sex involving a minor is a crime depends on the age difference between the partners. See http://www.lewin.com/NR/rdonly.....erview.pdf, page 5.
148
“As a black man … Comment by JCH— 1/25/06 @ 10:33 am”
You? I’ll believe that when you post your photo. As for your racist charge, unless I’m mistaken, the gangs that frequent MLK Way during the wee hours come in assorted colors, nationalities, and ethnic groups.
147
“RR’s implication is that if you are looking for a bad neighborhood in Seattle, MLK is the place to go.”
I can recommend some others, if you’re interested in getting the shit kicked out of you.
Downtown after dark
Seattle Center after dark
Beacon Hill
Georgetown
White Center
South Park
Burien
My apologies to anyone whose neighborhood I omitted; I didn’t intend to slight you
hey you crazy old fool,
JCH did not say that, I said that.
I’m actually surpised that you only asked to see my picture instead of trying to figure out if all those stories are a myth.
Now take your pathetic ass, back to the racist hole you live in.
147
Hmmm, the south Seattle neighborhoods that I lived in generally did not have automatic weapons fire, it was usually closely spaced shots from handguns.
RR @ 162
“You? I’ll believe that when you post your photo.”
Would you be able to tell the difference? We all look alike, right?
Momus, Yes, all blacks look alike to RR. He only needs the blacks on Election Day. Other than that, “those people” are just not very important to Roger.
Thank You JCH, I see it that way too.
Personally, I’d rather people have the integrity to say they are racist as opposed to being one behind a closed door and a smile.
And that is the way of the Seattle liberal.
168…….Well said. With respect, JCH
Janet stated that “So far [she had] seen no testimony from experts,” not that she had not yet seen double-blind, peer-reviewed studies of the type that Republicans pooh-pooh when the subject turns to, say, global climate change.
But she’s trying to have it both ways. In a situation where professional prosecurtors and child advocates, including those speaking for their professional associations, come out in favor of the Dem bill, she is saying “B-b-b-b-ut we don’t have all the science.” But when the Republicans push a bill on the first day of the session AGAINST the recommendation of these professionals 9besides supporting it with a sleazy campaign and using it as a partisan battering ram), does she say “Wait a minute. We should really study this and find out if such an effect is genuine, because of course if it is then I would support the bill that would result in more convictions.”
Um, that would be a nope. Janet’s hypocrisy of argument is SOP for the GOP.
The GOP playbook:
1. Lie.
2. Deny.
3. Whine and cry.
4. Go to 1.
klake
“Spit on veterans?” Never happened.
167
Thanks for the racist comment, JCH. You said it, I didn’t. As for you, Momus Pompous Assus, I don’t care whether you’re black, white, or peppermint. Idiots come in all varieties.
Momus, please! You’re pushing really hard for a really weak point.
You seem like you could be reasonable if you wanted to, but you just don’t choose that.
I don’t like this ‘take a comment that could be interperated as racist and use it to paint someone as a KKK member’ crap. Its dishonest and you know it.
PS: Roger: You forgot Aurora… all of it
168
I’m not a racist, but a lot of Republicans are. I’ll take your word for it that you’re black, Momus. It doesn’t get you an exemption — you’re still an idiot. You believe in equality, right? I certainly do.
Proud @ 64
The GOP does not care about what works. It is their steadfast conviction in the face of all evidence to the contrary that their ideological beliefs are reasonable policy choices that make them the curiosity they are.
Long jail sentences for everyone except Tom DeLay is what will reduce crime.
Tax cuts raise revenue.
Trees cause air pollution.
Global warming does not exist because it’s cold in January.
The Bible in the Word of God because the Bible says so.
Republicans know how to run the economy.
You know.
173
“PS: Roger: You forgot Aurora… all of it”
My bad. You’re right. How could I overlook Aurora?
Or the rolling menagarie called Route 358?
Will @ 33
The problems with you liberals is you think that if you say it or hear it then it is proven true.
The problem with you consevatives is that something proved true has no effect on your mistaken opinion.
173
“I don’t like this ‘take a comment that could be interperated as racist and use it to paint someone as a KKK member’ crap. Its dishonest and you know it.”
Oh, why not, I do it to them. The difference is liberals aren’t racists, but many wingnuts are.
164
“your pathetic ass”
Gee, what a crude characterization of a cute fluffy cottontail that looks like a marshmallow. When you get right down to it, though, it’s an ass and I shit out of it.
Mike Webb Sucks @ 95
It’s a metaphor. Wow.
Roger – when you are thoughtful, I find you highly persuasive. It sounds like the pregnant under-14 year old is a solid proposal to the legislature.
I have to disagree about Uncle Charlie who fondles his 10 year old niece. He might be a nice guy, but if he doesn’t know that this is abhorrent behavior, he doesn’t belong in civilized society. Giving him treatment and returning him to the same environment just makes a mockery of the poor child who has been abused. Maybe he shouldn’t be jailed for life, but somehow we have to get these sociopaths out of our neighborhoods.
“The difference is liberals aren’t racists, but many wingnuts are.”
Keep telling yourself that RR.
I’m guessing the only faces of color you come in contact with are the ones you see as you drive past them on the street.
mmomus, you trying to paint RR as racist while going along so happily with that bastard JCH is telling, to say the least…
Is anything you do not for ‘winning the argument’?
RR is foing just fine as painting himself, just fine, as a liberal racist.
Now before you go spouting off on that term, go do some research on it. As opposed to inventing your own definition as you did yesterday with the word troll.
Sorry, I am getting very angry with this subject and my emotions got the better of me. I should have checked my message before hitting send.
What I meant to say is this:
RR is painting himself, just fine, as a liberal racist.
Now before you go spouting off on that term, go do some research on it. As opposed to inventing your own definition as you did yesterday, with the word troll.
Janet’s remark: ‘Really, the comments here are reprehensible. It seems like it is more important to you all to play political games and call me names than to look at the issue seriously. That’s fine – you are the ones that look inane.’
Actually, this entire issue came up entirely due to a political game played by the Republicans: bringing an issue up for a vote prematurely, before the legislators had any opportunity to even read the thing, and wholly in order to then be able to conduct this dishonest marketing campaign. Would you advocate this as a sensible way to conduct government? THAT’S what this is about, not either side’s particular flavor of hatred for child molesters. Democrats and Republicans equally hate child molesters, okay? We all KNOW that, despite what is stated so tiresomely in these threads. Different people have differing ideas about the most effective way to combat this scourge. The ‘games’ being played here are being played by Republicans.
now now momus. I was getting to what he MEANT. As I said, language isn’t static. And the usage of troll here is different than the usage on USENET.
Either way, I still feel you’re stretching. MLK is a high crime area. Regardless of who lives there, its dangerous. Thats where the falsity of your whole argument comes up. If it were SAFE on MLK, then you’d have a point. But certainly the overwhelming conception in the Seattle area is that it isn’t.
At any rate, lets move on.
On the subject of child molesters….
I came across this blog and it is very disturbing. I think we can talk this subject to death, but lets hear what Joeseph Edward Duncan has to say….
Personally, I would not shed a tear if we started shooting this vermin on sight.
http://jetd63.blogspot.com/
hey windie…
I have a question for you.
Who do you think is going to find trouble more quickly.
A White man roaming through the CD on foot at 3 Am or a black man doing the same, in say, Sand Pointe. Mercer island or Medina?
I’d be willing to bet the black man would have police called on him REAL QUICK
Momus, if you are still whining about ‘racist’ and MLK and ‘Black” pull your idiotic head out. And don’t be such a fool as to think the Asian gangs that run up and down MLK would give a rat’s ass what color you are when they start slinging lead.
momus: I’ll say this: I’d rather get hassled by the police than mugged or beaten by a gang. The police are far less likely to kill me.
Tree frog farmer…
I get the feeling you are confusing MLK with a movie you watched…
have you seen Black Rain or Rising Sun lately?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096933/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107969/
186
“I am getting very angry with this subject”
If you’re black as you claim (now why am I skeptical of what wingnuts say? hmmm), good, you SHOULD get very angry about racism. We all should regardless of who we are. But where do you get off calling me a “racist” just because I said MLK Way is dangerous at 3 AM? It is, you know. I was just stating a fact.
182
“Maybe he shouldn’t be jailed for life, but somehow we have to get these sociopaths out of our neighborhoods.”
I agree — and I don’t know what the best way to do that is. That’s why I think the legislature should listen to the experts — and the GOP should back off from exploiting the issue for crass politics.
Is anyone against public hearings on both bills?
189
“Edward Duncan … shooting this vermin on sight …”
No, give him a fair trial first, then shoot him on sight.
190
“A White man roaming through the CD on foot at 3 Am or a black man doing the same, in say, Sand Pointe. Mercer island or Medina? I’d be willing to bet the black man would have police called on him REAL QUICK”
If I were on foot in the CD at 3 a.m., I’d LOVE to have to police show up, but there’s no doubt whatsoever the police response would be much quicker in the neighborhoods you mention — money talks.
ROGER RABBIT’S INSTRUCTIONS FOR GETTING THE SEATTLE POLICE TO RESPOND TO A 9-1-1 CALL
Step 1. Call 9-1-1
Step 2. Tell the operator you need the police immediately.
Step 3. Describe the threat.
Step 4. Say, “I have a gun, and hope I don’t have to use it.”
Do not omit Step 4, as this step is essential to getting the police to come. If they think you armed, they will come right away, or at least much quicker, because they don’t want you to hurt the offender.
196
“Is anyone against public hearings on both bills?”
I think the GOP bill deserves a hearing. That’s what they should have done in the first place, instead of playing games.
186
“I am getting very angry with this subject†[Roger Rabbit]. So are we, you liberal Democrat “Plantation” racist!!
mmomus, you trying to paint RR as racist while going along so happily with that bastard JCH is telling, to say the least…
Is anything you do not for ‘winning the argument’?
Comment by windie — 1/25/06 @ 12:48 pm [widie, Are you a liberal Democrat “Plantation” racist like Roger Rabbit? Momus and I want to know!!!
you’re a joke JCH… the problem is, you’re not a funny joke. More of a groaner.
I see you got some good jewbaiting in this week tho, so GOOD JOB!
I concede that the postcards were silly, but the reaction to them was just about as silly (including the hyperventilating at this site). The letter from the reps stretches credibility.
One good outcome, though, is this now is a very open issue with lots of interest. I suspect that the GOP assumed that their bill would be ignored, and so resorted to publicity. Whatever, as long as something is passed that is stronger than the current law, with longer sentences, I’ll be happy.
Janet: Were they right or wrong to offer up the bill the way they did, when nobody had had a chance to read it?
Considering the mixed nature of the neighborhood I live in, the only racism I see being expressed is by momus insisting that it is a ‘black’ neighborhood.
We have prosecutors who plead everything under the sun and refuse to prosecute the majority of their cases.
Windie,
How many cases have you prosecuted? How long have you been a prosecutor? Do you have any idea how many cases there are, and how many cases can actually be tried?
For example, the busiest district court system in the state has about 11,000 cases per year in 5 courtrooms, or roughly 2200 cases per courtroom per year. They can do roughly 1 trial a week, maybe a little more, maybe a little less. Let’s be generous and say 1.5 trials a week, or about 70 trials per year. That’s 350 trials that can be performed out of 11,000 cases.
You tell us: how the hell do the prosecutors try every case? They plea bargain cases because the system would absolutely grind to a halt if they didn’t. They have to do something with the 10,650 or so cases that can’t be tried. It is impossible to take every case to trial. Defendants also have a constutional right to plead guilty as charged, and many do.
I’d suggest you go sit in court sometime and see what the volumes are like before you make yourself look more ignorant.
I see you got some good jewbaiting in this week tho, so GOOD JOB!
Comment by windie — 1/25/06 @ 4:01 pm Goldenstein, Joe Stein, and LA Times’ Brownstein [total military service: zero] all hate Bush, all hate the Iraq war, and all will blame Bush if Isreal gets attacked by any Muslim country. Classsically liberal Democrat funny!! Gee, what else do these fine men have in common?? [hehe]
Windie, The moment any black votes Republican [goes off the Democrat “plantation”] they are no longer black, are they? [see General Powell, Dr. Condi Rice, J. C. Watts, etc] American Blacks: Voter slaves to the Hillary Democrats!
Windie, Do all blacks look alike to you, or at least on Election Day??
RR statement of “Why don’t you try walking down MLK Way at 3 a.m. and see what it feels like. You might be surprised by how subdued your own warrior impulses can become.” is at it’s very core a racist statement and his denial to address the subject implies his own guilty.
Comment by momus— 1/25/06 @ 10:32 am
Momus I will walk threw any part of the world at 3 am in the morning. Your neighborhood is just as safe as the Roger’s is if you understand how to conduct yourself. Every neighborhood is made up of different cultures and if you do not understand the cultures, you might get pick on. You see most folks do not understand that black people are not the bogie man, and can be a lot of fun to be friends with if you learn their culture. Now that is true about any race or groups of people. You are right about walking into white neighborhoods as I experience the same thing when I was in the North Eastern part of this country with a black friend of mine from Bellevue. My Uncle’s and Aunt’s are all half American Indian and how the local’s has treated me in Illinois is something I will never forget. Ass for some of the folks on this web site they are still learning how to deal with other peoples differences.