Once again, WashBlog’s got great coverage of the voter registration challenge hearings, with a firsthand account of last night’s session. Anonym’s cross-post to Daily Kos is currently sitting in the recommended list, but please recommend it yourself so that this story can get as much exposure as possible. The rest of the nation needs to know the kind of underhanded bullshit the GOP is trying to get away with here.
As WashBlog reports, some of the same Democratic attorney’s who kicked Dino Rossi’s ass in his doomed election contest trial are playing tag-team on behalf of challenged voters. On Monday, Kevin Hamilton took Lori Sotelo and the GOP to the mat, and last night it was David McDonald’s turn:
McDonald: Do you have any personal knowledge that Ms. Harriet can’t vote?
Sotelo: I won’t answer that question.McDonald: Do you have any personal knowledge about Ms. Harriet’s age, which could affect her ability to vote?
Sotelo: I won’t answer that question.McDonald: Do you have any personal knowledge about Ms. Harriet’s status as a United States citizen that could affect her ability to vote?
Sotelo: I won’t answer that question.McDonald: Do you have any personal knowledge that Ms. Harriet doesn’t meet any of the exceptions laid out in the Washington State Constitution in regards to her voting registration?
Sotelo: I won’t answer that question.McDonald: Do you know where in this storage facility the resident manager lives?
Sotelo: I won’t answer that question.McDonald: I move for dismissal. Her statement that she has a “reasonable idea of where she (Ms. Harriet) lives” doesn’t meet the requirements laid out in the statute. These “drive by challenges” will enormously burden the public. If you let these challenges to forward, then you’ll be allowing future fishing expeditions.
McDonald received an ovation when he returned to his seat.
All this should make fascinating viewing, thanks to the camera the Democrats brought to tape the proceedings… despite strenuous objections from GOP Attorney Diane Tebelius. According to one observer, the Republican table totally “freaked out” when they saw the camera being set up, and demanded that cameras be barred from the hearing room.
Hmm. They didn’t seem to mind the camera our good friend Stefan brought to snap pictures of the infidels for the illustrated purge list he’s working on. And they didn’t seem to mind all the TV cameras that showed up at the hearing last Thursday. But then, that was before they knew how badly the hearings would go for the GOP, and how terrible their ill prepared, erroneous and extra-legal challenges would look to the general public.
When KCRE representative Bobbie Egan defended the Democrat’s right to tape the event by saying it was a public hearing, Tebelius demanded to know what part of the RCW allows cameras in the hearing room. Of course, perhaps if she had done her legal homework, Tebelius might have been able to tell us what part of the RCW bans camera. (Hint: that’s the part of the RCW that doesn’t exist.)
In any case, the GOP’s PR disaster continues, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see clips of Sotelo’s legal undressing in future Democratic campaign ads, for as McDonald made clear, Sotelo had no personal knowledge about the residences of any of the voters she challenged… despite the fact that she testified to such knowledge on her surreptitiously altered challenge affidavits.
Whether this rises to the level of perjury or not, I’m not sure (technically, the blame may lie on the auto-pen that was apparently used to put an identical signature on all 1944 affidavits), but the charges certainly deserve at least as thorough an investigation as she is demanding of the challenged voters.
Sotelo and the GOP are seeking to disenfranchise (even prosecute) otherwise eligible voters based on poorly supported allegations of errors in their voter registrations. Yet Sotelo herself has failed to follow the statute in filing these challenges, and has knowingly misled elections officials as to her personal knowledge.
And so I urge all of you to sign a petition to King County Prosecuting Attorney Norm Maleng, asking him to investigate Sotelo’s actions, and prosecute her if warranted. At last count, 72 people had already signed the petition… it would be nice to collect at least 1944 signatures before turning it in.
First comment.
How about the paid guys, like Logan, clean up the rolls first. They invited this stuff. Vigilantes show up when gov’t doesn’t do its job.
Good job deflecting from real issue (flawed system).
Suprised you didn’t link this to Nazis and/or Rove like you normally do..
Sign it. Thanks, Goldy! Hope you’re having fun out east. Enjoy your thanksgiving.
Goldy—
Nice spin job!!!
The reality is that the vast majority of these challenged voters will NOT have their votes counted because they were ILLEGALLY registered.
You remind me of the guy trying to pick-up chicks in a bar and he gets shot down because he is bald! Rather than accept that fact, he takes a magnifying glass and shows the chicks he still has a couple hairs!!
Unfortunately, I can’t sign THIS petition because I don’t live in King County. But as a Democrat, any illegal, underhanded, unConstitutional, cowardly attempt by the GOP to interfere with Democrat’s right to vote impacts me so I will send my own letter to the prosecutor. I did contact all the mainstream media today asking why they haven’t been riding the DA more on this issue. All wrote back and said they were keeping an eye on it. It seems Norm made a promise to wait until the hearings were over before he acted. God I’d give anything to see that traitor bitch frog marched into the King County jail!!!
Maleng, unfortunately, will do nothing. His head henchman Dan Satterberg is involved and Maleng will do nothing that might put his pal Danny in the spotlight. much like any other alley cat, Maleng is constantly grooming himself for higher office and he knows that prosecuting Republicans won’t get him there. If anyone files suit, they should either file it in Federal Court or have it moved to another County.
SPIN AWAY GOLDY!!!
The vast majority of the challenges are legitimate and will be upheld. The CLOWNS are attempting to pull out a couple to paint all of them as improper. May work in KingCo….won’t work in Court.
May work in KingCo….won’t work in Court.
Just like your “surprises” in the election contest.
Communists in the 1950’s went by the handle “Progressive” and had many similiar ideas…..particularly when it came to forcing individuals to give up individual property rights “for the good of the commune-ity”.
Then, as now, a joyful picture of the “good-life” was painted with high salaries, low-cost of living, less stress and the “government” taking care of all of our basic needs. People who were tired of scratching out a living allowed human nature to take over…..they wanted more for doing less. And the “Progressive” promoters promised them an easier life. Class warfare….the bottom-line. Take from the minority rich….and give to the poor easing their burden while resulting in the unwanted consequence of killing their motivation. Thus, a dependent Society. The leaders of the Progressive movement, then & now….attempt to build their power base on getting the poor & downtrodden to believe “Government” will take care of them. Really no different from today’s Progressive movement.
Encourage communal thinking, take away individual initiative and promise Big Government will give you an Idyllic life.
Pretty attractive somedays, I must admit.
Sadly, some of the Pied Pipers of the New Age Progressive movement are so brainwashed about this vision that they fail to comprehend the inevitable “Unwanted Consequences”.
That’s why the innocently naive LEFTIST PINHEADED CLOWNS are referred to as LENIN’S USEFUL IDIOTS. Lenin KNEW these do-gooders from the West could be co-opted to push forth his agenda.
Lenin had ZERO respect for the CLOWNS….just used them.
Same as today.
Cynical, why don’t you put yourself and the rest of us out of your misery. Move to a different state, country, or plane of existence. We’re tired of you
RWB @ 8
No chance of that happening. Did you know that Ms Chickenhawk (AKA as Mr. Cynical) lives in his mother’s basement — rent free!
Yeah, he’s got it cush. He also said once that she washes his GI Joe bed sheets after he wets the bed. Being fat, bald, single, and a virgin he’s not going anywhere any time soon. Shit, who’d take him?
@ 7
You fucking CLOWN!
rwb & GBS–
What happened to the “tolerance” and “diversity” and rainbow you CLOWNS subscribe too?
Oh, I get it….it only appies to people that agree with you!!!!
PS Happy Thanksgiving!
cynical
They are so mean spirited and divisive……
Hey, I want to add if you don’t like christmas, “FUCK YOU!”
Sotelo sounds like a gangster taking the Fifth on the witness stand.
Wait … she IS a gangster!!!
GOP = organized criminal conspiracy to deprive legitimate voters of their legal right to vote
@3
“God I’d give anything to see that traitor bitch frog marched into the King County jail!!!”
Not me!!! I want to see her do the bunny hop in an orange jumpsuit, to the accompaniment of “The Bunny Hop Song:”
http://btobmusic.barnesandnobl.....0086077274
Dear Mr. Cynical,
Your handle is apt (yeah, I know mine is too), but really, your support for liars, thieves, and cynical “paragons of virtue” is really quite funny. I am also concerned that you are simply cutting and pasting from some old 50’s John Birch Society screeds. The language is remarkably similar in all respects. Are you a member?
As for “wanting more for doing less”, that is a real wanker. Any good “free marketeer” would want the same. Ask any self-styled “businessman”. Especially when they sit down with their tax attorney.
and a happy thanksgiving to you, too, sir, you traitorous running dog.
Regards,
@4
“much like any other alley cat, Maleng is constantly grooming himself for higher office”
No, I don’t think so. Maleng ran for governor but lost in the primary. He’s too old to be thinking of higher office now. He’s getting to the age where retirement, pension benefits, health care, and golfing occupy a man’s mind.
Comment on 5
Mr. Cynical’s appetite for publicly making a fool of himself is insatiable.
Come off it Mr. C and Righton. Launch into the usual CAPS with leftist pinheads amd accusations of communist sympathies (so last century, by the way. Then you jump on others who take the bait.
Give me a break and give it a rest.
Comment on 7
Mr. Cynical is wandering off topic again. This, combined with his penchant for making foolhardy predictions, leads me to wonder what he’s brewing out there in the woods. I want some! It’s ass-kicking stuff! Must be at least 210 proof.
Comment on 17
My relationship with the John Birch Society goes way back into the early 60’s, when I met founder Robert Welch in person — and flipped him off.
I forgot to thank your governor for jacking the liquor tax, it meant that I reasearched and found out how to get Nevada liquor for the holidays cheaper than I could ever get it in this state!….I wonder why that is, all the taxes in Nevada are lower, despite less population to pay for more, and yes better roads, buisiness thrives in Nevada, as it leaves Washington (aka Boeing). More people are actually working in Nevada…just wondering why others cant follow that lead….OH! I figgured it out, in this state we have a falsly inflated “prevailing wage” and we are commited to the state telling a man what he must do with his property. We are commited to running the government unlike a normal buisiness!
Chuck @ 23:
Nevada has an income tax, and Las Vegas is one of the most heavily unionized cities in the country. You want some of that here? Bring it on.
Remember to give thanks that you live in the United States. In other societies, you’d be institutionalized as a mental defective.
Hey Chuck — since when do rednecks living in Roy pay liquor tax! har har har har har
AH, Ivan the union hack…been a while. Check your figures, but set aside the “facts” that your union paper drums up for you…..
Roger Rabbit@25
We did until the latest tax rapping came along….
Chuck, as usual is short on the facts. Nevada is far from a paragon of fiscal fitness, and we’d do pretty well to avoid their tax structure, which creates chronic structural deficits
And Cynical? You can bet your life savings that his predictions will turn out wrong. He was so wrong in the election contest he promised to change his name to “Mr Irrelevant”. Obviously he wants us all to forget the past, so here he is again. I wonder if this time he’ll change his name to “Mr. Nanospec of Importance”
Either that or Cynical’s posts are auto-generated, like that old “Eliza” psychology program.
McDonald: Do you have any personal knowledge that Mickey Mouse can’t vote?
Sotelo: I won’t answer that question.
McDonald: Do you have any personal knowledge about Mr. Mouse’s age, which could affect his ability to vote?
Sotelo: I won’t answer that question.
McDonald: Do you have any personal knowledge about Mr. Mouse’s status as a United States citizen that could affect his ability to vote?
Sotelo: I won’t answer that question.
McDonald: Do you have any personal knowledge that Mr. Mouse doesn’t meet any of the exceptions laid out in the Washington State Constitution in regards to his voting registration?
Sotelo: I won’t answer that question.
McDonald: Do you know where Mr. Mouse really lives?
Sotelo: I won’t answer that question.
McDonald: I move for dismissal. Her statement that she has a “reasonable idea of where he (Mr. Mouse) lives” doesn’t meet the requirements laid out in the statute. These “Mickey Mouse challenges” will enormously burden the public. If you let these challenges to forward, then you’ll be allowing future mousing expeditions.
Oh, in case you’re interested. Washington State ranks for better than Nevada in most government performance metrics. Our biggest problem is the lack of a tax base that can keep up with population growth and service costs (i.e. an income tax)
jcricket @30
Our biggest problem is the lack of a tax base that can keep up with population growth and service costs (i.e. an income tax)
Ewww…so you subscribe to the idea that the sheep should be regularly shorn?
Cheesie Chuck: `scuse me while I gloat!!!
How y’all feel ’bout those petitions you had signed? All to “send a message”?
Message got garbled like a cell phone call and the people hung up on you all.
Nevada awaits, Chuckie…
Nevada does NOT have a state income tax. They have property taxes, gas taxes, and sales tax and they are all lower than here in Washington State. They do have millions of gamblers from around the world pouring billions in revenue into the state through gaming!
Rabitt, I am waiting for the French joke……..
@31
Richard, as an attorney, you know perfectly well that …
1) The movant has the burden of making a prima facie case;
2) A case must be dismissed if the complainant fails to satisfy procedural requirements;
3) KCRE could, on its own motion, conduct its own investigation into whether Mr. Mouse is eligible to vote.
@33
“Ewww…so you subscribe to the idea that the sheep should be regularly shorn?”
Paying taxes is the fare for living in a civilized society. There has never been any civilization that did not exact taxes from its subjects or citizens. If you do not wish to be part of a civilized society, you do have an option to live a tax-free existence on a desert island of your choice. If you choose to live in this society, shut up and pay your taxes like everyone else has to, you whiny little fucking
F R E E L O A D E R
Reply to 35
The sergeant major of a Foreign Legion desert for was showing a new arrival around the installation.
“Those are the officers’ tents,” the sergeant major said. “Over here are the enlisted men’s barrack tents. That’s the supply tent, and least but not least, this is the mess tent. Any questions?”
The recruit replied, “What does a guy do for sex around here?”
Without a word, the sergeant major escorted him to the last tent of the row, pushed aside the flap, and gestured at the camel tied to the tent pole. The recruit said nothing.
In the following days, the recruit ventured to the camel’s tent from time to time, but always shook his head, turned on his heel, and walked away. But by Saturday afternoon he could not stand the deprivation anymore, shook off his inhibitions, and went at the camel with vigor.
The recruit was still engaged in this activity when the sergeant major entered the camel’s tent and froze in his tracks, his eyes wide in disbelief, his jaw dropped.
“What — in God’s name — are you doing — to our camel???” the astonished sergeant major demanded.
“Isn’t this what it’s for?” the recruit asked.
The sergeant major shook his head, looked at the recruit sadly, and replied, “I don’t know about your tastes, son, but everyone else here uses the camel to ride into town.”
That is too funny………. When I was a 1SG, I had a soldier that we ended up discharged for a mental defect who swore that he preferred camels to women……. I kid you not! He was from a country with camels and his short time in the Army was difficult to say the least. Every day his motor sgt was in my office complaining about him. The day he told me about the camels, I called mental hygiene and made him an appointment!
Roger Rabbit @37
Paying taxes is the fare for living in a civilized society. There has never been any civilization that did not exact taxes from its subjects or citizens.
Thank you for the civics lesson. Harrumph…
With that said, I am not about to subscribe to any and every tax cooked up by your elected officials. Were you to look at the full text of my statement in context, perhaps you might agree. Of course, that would require some thinking on your part, and rabbits are inherently known for munching veggies on a whim…
Reply to 40
You are free to vote for whomever you please.
You are free to support or oppose particular taxes.
You are free to bitch about taxes to your heart’s content.
But when our (not “your,” but “our”) elected officials enact a tax, you WILL pay the tax as required — no more, no less.
Oh, and one more thing — if you don’t believe in taxes, go live on a fucking desert island!
Freeloader …
RR,
But when our (not “your,” but “our”) elected officials enact a tax, you WILL pay the tax as required – no more, no less.
I stand (unhappily) corrected, but you are right. I do pay your taxes…
Oh, yeah…F R E E L O A D E R
That’s why the innocently naive LEFTIST PINHEADED CLOWNS are referred to as LENIN’S USEFUL IDIOTS. Lenin KNEW these do-gooders from the West could be co-opted to push forth his agenda.
Lenin had ZERO respect for the CLOWNS….just used them.
Same as today.
Comment by Mr. Cynical— 11/23/05 @ 3:57 pm
Mr. Cynical how did you get so smart? My dad just return from China and guess what? The Chinese has join our world, 108 hole golf course and the place is ring with 2 million plus homes. So much for Mao Tse-tung, the People’s Republic of China, and the little red book of Mao. It’s too bad that millions of people had to die to make all that happen. Dr. E. you need to visit China, you might learn something. You know Ron Sims might pull it off and succeed where Mao failed. You folks in Seattle enjoy you statue of Linn and where are you McDermott Bust next to Saddams.
Reply to 40
You are free to vote for whomever you please.
You are free to support or oppose particular taxes.
You are free to bitch about taxes to your heart’s content.
But when our (not “your,” but “our”) elected officials enact a tax, you WILL pay the tax as required – no more, no less.
Comment by Roger Rabbit— 11/23/05 @ 9:33 pm
Tea Party anyone?
klake @47
Is 4pm good?
Which ship in Seattle do we dump the cargo into the sound?
How about the paid guys, like Logan, clean up the rolls first.
You keep insisting Logan should “clean up the rolls” while ignoring the fact that KCE has been cleaning them up. Don’t bother claiming they haven’t. It’d just reveal how little you know.
If the GOP were interested in cleaning up the rolls, they would’ve brought their issues to the attention of KCE BEFORE THE REGISTRATION DEADLINE so that the legitimate claims could be acted upon… and the invalid ones laughed out. Would’ve saved the GOP a lot of bad publicity.
I’ve yet to see even an excuse for why they waited if they’re so interested in cleaning up the voter rolls. Not to mention why they’re not doing this in other counties.
Aexia @ 50
If you ready the information from Ron & Dean (who are better suited to be Kinko’s managers than KingCo’s), they made some half-assed simple “find” search to identify the box and PMB addresses. Partisan conspiracy or not, the fact is that they are incompetent at best and cannot be trusted to manage such critical data. Then again, in their quasi-defense, I’ve dealt with data people in other agencies at various levels throughout this entire country and was disappointed at how little they typcially knew about their own files and systems.
Wabbit @ 36
The only procedures to challenge the voter registration of Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck are contained in RCW 29A.08.810 through RCW 29A.08.850. A registered voter would have to file an affidavit or declaration under RCW 29A.08.830(1) based upon personal knowledge – and would also be required to “furnish the address at which the challenged voter [i.e. Mr. Mouse or Mr. Duck] actually resides” if the Democrats’ interpretation of the law stands.
Does anyone have “personal knowledge” that Mr. Mouse or Mr. Duck is not a U.S. citizen (the applicable challenge for a fictional character), in the sense that Ronald McDonald would demand? And even if this were the case, how could anyone possibly come up with the address at which Mr. Mouse or Mr. Duck actually resides (especially if they are fictional characters!)?
The only other RCW provisions that would allow administrative cancellations of the registrations of Mr. Mouse or Mr. Duck apply to (a) if it can be shown that Mr. Mouse or Mr. Duck have died, (b) if it can be shown that Mr. Mouse or Mr. Duck have been convicted of a felony, or (c) if it can be shown that Mr. Mouse or Mr. Duck have moved out of state.
You are correct that King County Records & Elections can investigate “Mickey Mouse” registrations. But if they want to cancel Mr. Mouse or Mr. Duck, they have to follow the normal voter challenge procedures. Some KCRE employee would have to fill out a voter challenge affidavit in accordance with RCW 29A.08.830(1). And if the “Ronald McDonald” interpretation of the Democrats prevails, this will be impossible if the challenger does not personally know Mr. Mouse or Mr. Duck and where they actually reside.
Klake the Flake @47
“Tea Party anyone?”
Complain to this guy — http://pekingduck.org/archives/bush%20chimp.jpg — he’s writing the checks. Lots and lots of checks!
Or are you one of those idiots who think the government can spend money without collecting taxes?
Then you get to pay an “inflation tax.” If you don’t know what that is, ask Mark the Redneck to explain it to you. He has 4 degrees.
@44
“I do pay your taxes…”
Isn’t this just like a fucking wingnut — if you ask him to pay his share of taxes, he bitches; if you ask him to fight a war, he bitches; if you ask him to pay a bridge toll, he bitches … all he wants to be is a
F R E E L O A D E R
@51
“Ron & Dean … are incompetent at best and cannot be trusted to manage such critical data.”
Strangely, it doesn’t bother you that George & Dick are incompetent and can’t be trusted to manage a war. Ron & Dean aren’t getting people killed.
jcricket@32
All I really need to do is drive through Nevada…in comparison, the roads are as smooth as a babies ass!
@51 (continued)
I guess wingnuts believe data is more critical than soldiers’ lives.
Clueless@34
Nope the message got BOUGHT, much like the equal gambling initiative…proud of selling your vote I guess????
@52
Richard — elections officials have recourse besides a challenge to keep Mickey Mouse from voting, like not accepting a fake registration in the first place! But if someone does manage to register to vote as “Mickey Mouse,” he or she will have to provide ID the first time he or she votes. Finally, the prosecuting attorney could challenge this registration.
It’s a red-herring argument, Richard. Republicans have not demonstrated that an actual problem exists of people registering or voting under fake names. You can’t find a single case of that from a recent election, because there isn’t one.
This argument is as specious as your 500-North-Korean-troops argument.
Wabbit @ 59
If a Mickey Mouse registration is submitted, with the U.S. citizenship box checked, a birth date at least 18 years ago, an apparent Washington residence address, and is signed in the correct place, elections officials have no choice — they must accept it and register Mr. Mouse.
It is best for Mr. Mouse to vote absentee, and check the permanent absentee box on the registration form. In that case, elections officials will mail Mr. Mouse a ballot at his alleged residence — or even at a mailing address anywhere in the world if he lists a different mailing address on his form. The only thing required for the vote to count is for Mr. Mouse’s signature on the absentee ballot envelope to reasonably match the signature on his registration application.
If Mr. Mouse elects to vote at the polls, there is the requirement to present ID at the polls. However, Mr. Mouse’s voter registration card (mailed to him by KCRE after processing his registration application) IS ACCEPTABLE IDENTIFICATION under the law! That is very fortunate for Mr. Mouse, since the other forms of acceptable identification — driver’s license, state ID card, utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, etc. — would be MUCH MORE DIFFICULT for Mr. Mouse to obtain.
If Mr. Mouse decides to be a poll voter, but forgets to bring his voter registration card, he will be allowed to cast a provisional ballot. And his provisional ballot will be counted, so long as the signature on the provisional ballot envelope reasonably matches the signature on his voter registration application.
If the prosecuting attorney wants to challenge Mr. Mouse’s registration, they have to follow the same procedures under RCW 29A.08.830(1) that apply to everyone else. The prosecuting attorney (or someone on his or her staff) have to submit a challenge affidavit, which will result in KCRE setting a hearing in the same manner as if you, I or Lori Sotelo had submitted one. If the Democrats’ “Ronald McDonald” arguments prevail, then the challenge must fail procedurally if the challenger lacks personal knowledge about Mr. Mouse and/or doesn’t state exactly where Mr. Mouse actually resides.
Not to toot my own horn, but I forced myself to endure yet another Challenge Hearing, and you can read about it over at Washblog. No spoilers, but we had a celebrity cameo…
Richard, grow up.
Seriously – none of the challenged voters that I’ve seen at these hearings were trying to fool KCRE or vote illegally – they may have filled out their voter registration mistakenly, but there was no malice in their actions.
And as to “then the challenge must fail procedurally if the challenger lacks personal knowledge”, you’re right – in case you didn’t notice, the affidavit Ms. Sotelo signed stated that she did have personal knowledge of the whereabouts of the voters she was challenging. She didn’t, and we’ll see most (if not all) of these tossed out on Monday.
Until then, have a happy turkey day!
It would be refreshing to see the trollfucks put 1% as much effort into worrying about whether legitimate voters are disenfranchised as they spend conjuring imaginary voting fraud scenarios.
Cheesie Chuck @ 58
I’m proud the people of this State saw through the lies you I-912 whores were selling. The legislature finally had the guts to break the gridlock on transportation infrastructure funding since I-695 and you Rossi sore losers had a tantrum.
You lost – big time. Cry babies.
Regarding Roads Mr. Rabbit–
NO ONE has ever said we should pay NO GasTaxes.
The issues have been and will continue to be:
Which projects are priorities?
Which project designs/plans are most cost effective?
How do we give taxpayers the most “bang for the buck?”
How do we hold a HUGE Bureaucracy like WSDOT accountable??
No one I know is a FREELOADER.
If you ever sat down and added up all the fees and taxes that you already pay (ie Property Taxes, Sales Taxes, Fees, Taxes on your phone bill, cell phone, cable, water & sewer UTILITY taxes that get added onto your bills and go to General funds, GasTaxes, FEES for this and Fees for that, Taxes that INCREASE the cost of goods & services thru B&O taxes….on & on & on).
The real FREELOADERS are those who are poor & homeless and getting welfare and other handouts. They use government services & pay NOTHING. The folks that live here and buy goods without paying Sales Tax…the folks that evade taxes by using the BARTER System.
The rank-and-file citizens not only already pay their fair share….they pay the fair share of thousands & thousands of REAL FREELOADERS!!!
Happy THANKSGIVING!!!!
PS–A real FREELOADER is someone with a useless & ineffective GOVERNMENT JOB sucking off hard earned tax/PUBLIC dollars.
Hell Rog—you even admitted that 30 years as a DSHS Attorney were pretty futile. Doesn’t that make you a FREELOADER??
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!
Enjoy your turkey….
PAID FOR BY THOSE OF US WHO PAID YOUR SALARY FOR 30 YEARS OF NOTHING OF VALUE!!
Richard; nicely done.
You carved these dims up nicely, leaving them only to revert to suggesting that honest elections somehow dissuade “people of non-traditional addresses” from voting…
That’s a pretty weak stool for them to stand on. Their only sleight of hand is to link the unfortunate homeless who still want to vote with all the people too lazy or stupid to even bother registering. In former generations we valued good citizenship, respect for rules, laws, etc.
Voting is a right, but being a citizen is also a responsibility. By the way, all the fake absentee voters…like that guy in Georgia who lived here 20 yrs ago or whatever, how many of those absentee voters pay taxes or serve on juries? Have you gives crafted a nice 1-way rights argument with no corrseponding responsibilities
righton=sore loser
Isn’t it starting to get a little old?
none of the challenged voters that I’ve seen at these hearings were trying to fool KCRE or vote illegally – they may have filled out their voter registration mistakenly, but there was no malice in their actions.
The challenged voters who filled out their original registration forms mistakenly can and should correct their mistake by changing their voting address to a valid residence.
Regarding Richard Pope’s scenario about registrations from Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck — election officials can’t legally discriminate against a voter simply because the voter shares his name with a cartoon character.
Look in Yahoo! People white pages — there appear to be real people with the names Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck and Roger Rabbit.
Have you gives crafted a nice 1-way rights argument with no corrseponding responsibilities….
Coming from a wingnut who more than likely drops this line of reasoning when it comes to the 2nd amendment, I find this assertion not only specious, but hilarious.
Mr. Popes line of reasoning is likewise absurd–it presumes guilt from the start, and then goes on at great lengths to demonstrate how terribly difficult it would be to “catch” the guilty party. Stalin would be proud of this kind of thinking.
A) What a wonderfully holistic way to judge the fiscal fitness of a state.
B) I marvel at what a good comparison that is, considering how alike the geography and weather of Nevada is to Washington. Lots of lakes, mountains, rain, snow, etc. Oh wait…
Mr. Cynical@65 “the folks that evade taxes by using the BARTER System”….hate to crash on you here but tax on trades was voted in by the people as a no tax item.
jcricket@70 “B) I marvel at what a good comparison that is, considering how alike the geography and weather of Nevada is to Washington. Lots of lakes, mountains, rain, snow, etc. Oh wait…”
You forgot to mention that Nevada has a LOT more roads to maintain per capita of taxpayer than Washington.
Chuck@71–
I was thinking about Income Taxes when I said barter. People EVADE income taxes with BARTER and CASH businesses.
One example is Holistic Healers….they often trade their “skills” will other flakes for organic veggies and free-range tofu. Same with people at Craft Fairs.
I guess one could make the argument that when something is your TRADE OR BUSINESS and you trade those services for non-cash compensation and AVOID sales tax and B&O taxes, you are a FREELOADER!!
More illegal votes!! Kick out the military votes!! 115% votes from black districts, and if any questions are asked, play the race card!!! [“….It’s WHO counts the votes!!” Joe Stalin]
I was thinking…..
Stop right there, Mr. Cynical. It’s Thanksgiving, fer cryin’ out loud. No need to go off the reservation on our account.
Mr. Cynical@65 “the folks that evade taxes by using the BARTER System”….hate to crash on you here but tax on trades was voted in by the people as a no tax item.
Comment by Chuck— 11/24/05 @ 9:39 am
Chuck you miss another point, in New York city where Pres Clition has his office, some folks there are not on anybody’s records. They don’t have a social security number, birth certificate, drivers license, nor a business license. These fine outstanding citizens don’t even pay taxes and still get to vote. I forgot they were born in this country, but go by many different names. You see they showed up and registered to vote with a libaray card, copies of their phone bill and gas bill. They are by no means poor like Ted Kennedy would like you to belive, and they live a very productive lifes, but don’t support the system like you. They barter their services and nobody bothers them for they want to do business in the same matter. That is what killing Germany today when East Germany merged together was the large under ground trading they had established in the East. Today only a portion of Germany is paying Taxes and supporting the other half. This system can’t be Tax because it would cost more money to enforce the tax laws than it would bring in revenue. Now Europe is going broke due to the lack of revenue from the Eastern part of Europe. Even the unemployed have jobs and making money while receiving income from the goverment.
Nationally
Democrats evade all responsiblities that aren’t relevant to their front yard. Never mind that islamofacists are knocking on their back door. As long as their tightly manicured front yard seems socially correct for a few minutes they are more than happy to have their heads lopped off by their neighbor Osama.
Republicans are looking at all issues facing the populace. Democrats are only looking at one. How to get rid of GWB.
When they found they couldn’t make progress in election being war supportive, they started to move further left.
I would agree that progressive democrat is pretty much a synomym for social communism. It won’t ever work. the people supporting it, just haven’t seen it fail in action yet.
@65
“The issues have been and will continue to be: Which projects are priorities? Which project designs/plans are most cost effective? How do we give taxpayers the most ‘bang for the buck?’
How do we hold a HUGE Bureaucracy like WSDOT accountable??”
No, the issue is that some people want to debate these issues forever, so that nothing will ever get done.
For crying out loud, how much process do we need before SOMEBODY decides which projects get priority? Don’t you think our state suffers from enough transportation planning gridlock yet? Do you want more?
How many consultants, experts, and reports do we have to pay for in endless Quixotic quests to shave another 1/1000th of 1 cent off the cost of a ton of asphalt? Of course, the answer to this is Republicans will never be satisifed until “prevailing wage” is replaced by “third world wage.” We do you hate workers so much? What is wrong with people earning enough to support their families?
As for the “huge bureaucracy” argument, WSDOT’s budget and staffing have been cut drastically, and if it’s cut any more, there won’t be a WSDOT at all. Of course, that’s what you really want, so why don’t you admit it.
“No one I know is a FREELOADER.”
Yeah, you guys are freeloaders. There’s no tax you don’t whine about. You want the roads, etc., you just don’t want to pay for them. No amount of tax cutting will ever satisfy you. Any amount of government is too much for you. You want everything contracted to the private sector so you and your buddies can make a buck — no, a lot of bucks. And you want someone else to pony up the bucks.
Reply to 68
But … but … I thought I was Dean Logan? Does this mean I’m not Dean Logan anymore?
Hey Stefan, I know you read this blog, so how about it — if you win your lawsuit against Roger Rabbit … er, I mean Dean Logan and KCRE, are you going to share the money with the generous contributors to your “legal action fund” who paid for your lawsuit, or keep it all for yourself? Don’t you think those people deserve an answer? Or are you too high and mighty, and consider them too lowly, to speak to them?
Proud Ass @ 69
There is one lady who is registered twice with the exact same name and exact same address. The date of birth on one registration is just one day different than on the other. The lady receives and submits absentee ballots under both registrations in just about every election — including returning two absentee ballots for the September 2005 primary and two absentee ballots for the November 2005 general election. The King County Prosecuting Attorney is probably going to file felony charges against her for voting twice.
However, there is presently nothing that Dean Logan’s office thinks it can legally do about the situation, and they are counting both of her ballots in every election since they feel there is no legal basis to cancel either registration or reject either ballot. RCW 29A.08.830(1) only allows challenges of voters who are not legally qualified to vote or who don’t live at the address where they are registered. It doesn’t allow challenging a voter who is registered twice at the address where they actually live. Other provisions of the election code allow for duplicate registrations to be consolidated into one registration, but only when the names and dates of birth are the SAME on each registration.
Unfortunately, the only way to stop this lady from voting twice is to charge her with a felony for double voting and have her convicted. At that point, both her registrations would be cancelled as an ineligible convicted felon. But she would be eligible to register again — once, twice, or more — once she completes her sentences and pays her fines.
Let’s take the hypothetical where I decide my vote should count four times as much, and I cause Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck and Roger Rabbit to be registered at my address. I can even have them vote absentee, since the new state law requires identification for poll voters. Actually, I could show up four times and satisfy this simply by presenting the voter registration cards that KCRE mails out to Mr. Mouse, Mr. Duck and Mr. Rabbit. But absentee voting is easier, and all I have to do is sign their names the same way I did on their voter registration applications.
Let’s suppose I get caught. I can be charged with three counts of multiple voting, three counts of forgery, and three counts of perjury. And when I get convicted, my own voter registration gets cancelled, since I am a convicted felon.
But under the Democrats’ logic, as argued by their Ronald McDonald attorney, the bogus registrations of Mr. Mouse, Mr. Duck and Mr. Rabbit could never be cancelled. You couldn’t find any registered voter with enough “personal knowledge” of these three gentleman to sign a voter challenge affidavit stating that they didn’t really exist. And even if you could, the voter challenge would still fail on a technicality — you couldn’t provide an actual residence address for a fictional character.
Meanwhile, I could change the mailing address for Mr. Mouse, Mr. Duck, and Mr. Rabbit, and receive their absentee ballots at my prison cell. I wouldn’t of course be able to vote in my own name, but I would still have the ability to vote three times in every election.
@78
“However, there is presently nothing that Dean Logan’s office thinks it can legally do about the situation, and they are counting both of her ballots in every election since they feel there is no legal basis to cancel either registration or reject either ballot.”
First of all, Richard, I’m not taking your word for this — given how sloppy your past work has been. And I don’t have time right now to fact-check this. Let’s assume, arguendo, that you’re right … then the question becomes — what to do about it?
The answer is so obvious it hits you over the head: Give ELECTION OFFICIALS the legal authority to purge fake voters, double voters, etc. from the registration rolls. Create a fair process for doing so.
But no matter how bad the problem is — if there is a problem — the solution is NOT to give the Lori Sotelos of the world a legal right to challenge the voting rights of people they don’t know, sight unseen, with no evidence.
Culling the registration rolls is a job for trained professionals with no partisan axe to grind who are accountable to the public. And when I say the “public,” I mean the whole public, not the small, egocentric, self-serving band of rightwing loudmouths who think the universe should revolve around them.
Richard—
I do believe you are about to proclaim—-
CHECKMATE!!!!
Logan may try and try and try to convince us that there is nothing he can do about any of this….while out of the other side of his mouth saying “if only the R’s had come to me first”.
The fact of the matter is other County’s have dealt with these issues head-on FOR YEARS. The ELECTED County Auditors (other than Sideshow Bob Terwilliger) are quite offended by improper and ILLEGAL Voter Registrations. They immediately attempt to contact ALL voters registered at mailing services, storage lockers and other non-addresses as their staff or citizens bring it to their attention. Logan has decades of bad work to clean-up. Rather than fighting thru it, Logan chooses to pause occassionally and claim “Politics” against Republicans. Logan is a hack…no doubt. I think you will see a movement to make the KingCo Auditor ELECTED like all other Counties. Let’s see what Logan does when he has a competitor. I’ll bet things get cleaned up real fast.
Hey leftwingnuts…
Did you read about your beloved DOT in trouble on the Tacoma narrow bridge? The wire is oxidizing… 4000 spools left out in the rain..
If only this was fiction…ya’ll make it toooo easy..
80
It’s hard to find reliable PRIVATE CONTRACTORS these days.
79
How do you know that, Cynical? Did you conduct a survey of the 38 elected county auditors? Did you find that illegal registrations, double registrations, fictitious registrations, and homeless people exist only in DEMOCRATIC counties? What’s your source for this — Stefan?
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
Comment on 68
Well that shoots down the argument that registrations by Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, and Roger Rabbit prove vote fraud!
68 (continued)
Has anybody checked to find out if the addresses listed for Messrs. Mouse, Duck, and Rabbit are storage facilities?
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
@83, Okay, I’ll be dumb and ask…… What difference could it possible make leaving it in the rain? It isn’t like it will be installed in a desert somewhere with no rain. Why are they using wire that oxidizes in rain?
The doctor living in Georgia’s challenge was upheld by Dean Logan, because he applied part of the law. The Doctor came here to go to school on a temporary duty from the CDC. He registered to vote. He maintains his registration for OBVIOUS reasons, if he is considered a Washington resident, the federal government won’t deduct state taxes from him. He’s been living in Georgia for years and owns a house there. But he still works for the government, so Logan applied the exemption for government workers.
@ 80 & 81,
Actually in the first news story, (I think it was the PI) Dean Logan/Bobbi Egan claimed that Ms. L. was a mother/daughter combo. Which Stefan, of course, refuted with pictures of the lady’s voter registration cards, both of them! A day or so later, Bobbi Egan was quoted as saying that Ms L.’s case was turned over to Norm Maleng’s office in August for double voting. This woman has two separate voter ID numbers, she is receiving TWO ballots for all elections, and she’s voting them!
80 & 81,
The bigger story is that Dean Logan and Bill Huennekins caused the double voter problem. From everything that I have read on this problem, I doubt that it was deliberate. We need to remember that PAC’s were going crazy registering people to vote, and I read that up to 50% of those registrations were incomplete, filled out wrong, a lot weren’t signed, and many were from voters already registered. In an effort to save time, workers in KCRE were told NOT to check to see if someone was already registered.
Rep. PACS were going crazy registering Reps and THROWING AWAY DEM registrants. Supressing the vote.
Richard, the problem there is, you are using, as your example, someone who really lived at the place they were registered. Note, the person involved was living at a storage facility, they were a manager.
Once again, when you show that cheating is possible, all you’ve demonstrated is that you’ve thought a lot about how you can cheat the system. I guess the republicans have really given this a lot of thought.
Come back when you can show me that cheating actually happened. This constant ‘how we can cheat’ is really becoming annoying, you’ve shown me nothing more than that you are an ass I am really glad I voted against you, since you have shown that you cheat and lie all the time.
Comment by Ivan— 11/23/05 @ 6:41 pm
“Nevada has an income tax”
No, it doesn’t.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....income_tax
“Nine of the 50 United States do not have a personal income tax:
Alaska
Florida
Nevada
New Hampshire – does have tax on interest and dividends
South Dakota
Tennessee – does have tax on interest and dividends
Texas
Washington
Wyoming”
Ivan@26
It is a good thing you live in Washington, if you lived in New Mexico you might not be alowed to vote…
http://www.freerepublic.com/fo.....0899/posts
Goldy:
“Drive-by challenges.” Perfect description of the GOP’s attempt to take away a citizens LEGAL right to vote. The culture of corruption is rampant among the conservatives right now. The corruption factor is so engrained in the conservative mindset that they actually believe they are doing is morally and legally correct.
When, in fact, they could not be more un-American. In the end, they are just being “Good Germans.”
gee b.s….
what culture of corruption are you accusing us of? What have i stolen lately? heck i pay library fines, remind the cleaners i owe them money…what is in your brain?
and as for the Nazi allusion….stupid, stupid, stupid. go read goldhagen’s book …..about nothing in common w/ today in the US.
I didn’t know the library wsa open today