The Seattle Times editorial board is at it again:
In unemployment pay, Washington is not a cheap state, nor is either side — labor and business — proposing to make it one. It has the fifth-highest unemployment benefit among the states and the sixth-highest level of taxes.
Really? WA has the sixth-highest level of taxes? According to whom, and by what measure?
According to the conservative Tax Foundation, Washington’s state and local tax burden ranked 35th as a percentage of personal income in 2008, dead even with Mississippi, while WA’s own Department of Revenue had us ranked 28th in 2006. Both the Tax Foundation and the state DOR pull their numbers from the US Census Bureau. Furthermore, the Tax Foundation ranks WA as having the 12th best “business tax climate” in the nation.
So where does the Times get its number that ranks WA with the sixth-highest level of taxes? They don’t tell you, but I’m pretty sure the only math that could get us anywhere near that high would be to calculate total state, local and federal taxes per capita, a bullshit number for comparative purposes that even then they’d still have to fudge.
On average, Washington is not a high tax state. It’s simply not. And if the Times is going to insist on making that assertion, even in passing, they have an ethical obligation to back it up with real numbers.
According to the conservative Tax Foundation, Washington’s state and local tax burden ranked 35th as a percentage of personal income in 2008, dead even with Mississippi, while WA’s own Department of Revenue had us ranked 28th in 2006.
————
This is stale data. It has the state’s average state-local tax burden at 8.9%, and it’s gone up since then. For instance, in King County sales tax has gone up twice (I believe) since the data above was published, to 9.5%. The last increase (King, Snohomish, Pierce) was on April 1 (the RTA hike), from 9.0% to 9.5%.
That said, even 9.5% would only place Washington in the middle of the pack, assuming other states had not increased their burdens’ appreciably.
I agree w/you the Times needs to publish their source. It makes the entire subsequent discussion a waste of time AND dishonest to my mind.
Sales tax. 6th highest.
Then dump the sales tax completely and go to a progressive income tax.
@2 Sales tax. 6th highest.
Right, but that’s not a surprise since WA doesn’t have an income tax. The entire aggregate of taxes – sales, income, property – has to be factored into determining the burden.
The report Goldy quotes was published in August of 2008, and much of the underlying data (taxes, personal income) has no doubt changed a good deal as a result of the economy.
Incidentally, there’s seems to be some disagreement over these reports:
http://taxfoundation.org/publi.....23459.html
The essential point remains: the Seattle Times needs to provide its source.
Blue John–
Now is the time to do everything you can to buy that house…1st time buyers credit:
Obama has done the best he can for you..
$8000 will help toward your downpayment.
Don’t miss this opportunity.
Alas, I’m not a first time home buyer. I had a house, but couldn’t keep it, due to a health care disaster in the family. I’m still financially recovering from that, not in a position to get a house right now.
Think they’re talking about unemployment taxes only.
And yes, they should publish their source.
Uptown @7,
Well, if so, the Tax Foundation ranks WA’s as 36th in their Unemployment Insurance Tax index, which would mean we have the 14th highest rate, not the sixth.
That said, WA is also the envy of other states, with the flushest Unemployment Insurance fund in the nation.
In theory I would support an income tax, but I don’t trust WA legislators to make good on rolling back the sales and property taxes to offset the income tax. What we would end up with is some negligible and immaterial decrease in sales tax, AND we would have an income tax.
I wonder who has the monopoly on what “average” taxes are.
Forbes just rated the state as the 8th most taxed state (figuring in sales, income, and property). See http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/.....peed=15000 for this 3/30 article.
MGI- since you do not trust elected representatives, what do you sugest as a preferred form of government?
9 MGI
If “in theory” you woulsd support an income tax, if the legislature actually WRITES a bill that institutes aan income tax and reduces the “sales ad property tax” in a revenue-neutral way, would you support it?
BTW, aren’t property taxes a local issue?
What if it were the sales and B&O tax that was reduced by the amount that tthe income tax was raised? Would you still support it?
Would you ever support it? Really?
It is quite possible that the Seattle Times may have been referring to unemployment taxes, rather than all taxes. Evidently we’re 44th in unemployment taxes — http://www.washingtonpolicy.or.....nkings.pdf
@10
The Forbes ranking is based on “per capita”, the Tax Foundation is based on percent of personal income. Forbes relies on more recent data.
I think you have to look at these rankings very carefully, not only at the data – which will never be up-to-date, but at the methodology. See @4 for differences there.
One last observation. It’s not clear how cost-of-living regional differences, which can be significant – and thus a critical factor – are dealt with.
I would never ever support an income tax in this state. I believe in consumption based taxes like a sales tax. If I was living in Oregon right now, I would pay 7% of my income in taxes. I’m currently paying closer to 5% (rounded up) in Washington on Sales Tax.
@13 If you find yourself on the receiving end of a vicious attack from Puddy and Mr. Cynical, it’s because we share the same screen name. I’m not too popular with those guys.
2. Well duh … no income tax.
@13 If Tax Foundation has WA 36th and Washington Policy has WA 44th, somebody’s gaming the stats, because they can’t both be right.
IMO: It’s difficult to generalize since most taxes are either tied to consumption/spending or levied in the form of “Fees.”
I suppose, in reality, “too high” is when the average citizen is p*ssed and peeps start moving out of state.
@18
I believe they’re for different years – one is for 2008, the other 2009 – and they use different criteria for their rankings. See Table I here:
http://www.sbecouncil.org/uplo.....B1%5D1.pdf
for a ranking based on a estimated tax rate (note, these aren’t straightforward computations) and where Washington is ranked 44th – 43 states/District of Columbia have lower rates.
The Tax Foundation ranking here:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/p.....24381.html
uses something different to achieve its ranking from what I can see.
It’s very apparent there is no agreed upon or straightforward means for ranking states based on their taxes.
Then perhaps we should invite all those who would prefer to not pay their taxes to leave the country. If they refuse to shoulder their fair share of the burden, why should we allow them the right to live here on our efforts? I’m all for fair taxation, but to the ‘go Galt’ crowd, ‘fair taxation’ means ‘none whatsoever’.
Perhaps some of them will realize just how childish they’ve become. But I doubt it. So give ’em the boot if they don’t want to be a productive member of society.
@18
There are no solid tax rates for any state. The Tax Foundation includes Federal taxes at one end that puts us 8th. The Forbes study ignored business taxes and assumed Washingtonian’s all drink and smoke.
IMO, we are demanding the government we pay for. If we want less government we have to live a lot more simply.
Any solution that they come up with will be written with the distraction of mewling advocates of big business crying in their beer for more tax cuts — or there will be hell to pay.
It’ll all get worse before it gets better.
Remember: Politics is the art of what some spineless, self-interested politician thinks is possible.
Which ain’t much.
No business is doing very well right now except
fast food. Govt needs to lay off some dead weight both state and county level. 50 percent
would be a good start. Hell they dont have the retirement money now for the workers they got so imagine what the future holds.
Goldy:
Puddy loves the left using information from people whom think right when “it suits their purpose”.
Isn’t that called cherry picking facts?
Steve@13. Puddy doesn’t pick on people who bring facts. Steve@16 hasn’t been bring too many facts lately!
BullShit, This B has run up a 9 Bil bill and she is still not got a hiring freeze on. Company’s, Grocery Stores, businesses folding everywhere, and what is her plan, TAX EM OUT OF THE STATE.
What business will be left but BIG FAT Government!
Try to pay all those Union Employees and Fat Retirement plans with no businesses in this state
I’ve got a bright idea to fill the budget hole. Why don’t we put a huge excise tax on gun and ammunition sales? Since gun and ammo sales have been booming it should be good for a few billion or so.
Also a great way to tax wingnuts without actually singling them out.
Puddy has a bright idea to fill the budget hole. Why don’t we put a huge excise tax on being librul? You bought her campaign slogans and voted for her so you pay for it.
Representation Through Taxation.
Which left-tards want to raid to close the deficit.
@25 It’s just that you don’t like that facts I bring here. Like the fact that you don’t have the balls to stand up to right-wing racists.
@28 Budget hole? How about we ship extremist right-wing cowards like you who’ve moved here back to where you came from? We’d reduce infrastructure costs, freeway congestion, as well as infantile namecalling, whining and bitching.
Some “fees” for relicensing have gone up, way up. Last year I paid $50 to renew my nursing license. This year it is $70, so that’s a 40% increase. If only the state had done one little thing to increase my pay by 40% or to decrease my workload and make it actually possible to give safe care.
Saturday, April 11, 2009
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday shows that 34% of the nation’s voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Twenty-nine percent (29%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of +5