[NWPT48]I’m scanning the headlines coming out of Wednesday’s testimony in the election contest trial, and curiously, I don’t see any mention of stuffed ballots or fraud. And yet… this was the day the Republicans put the two witnesses on the stand who were supposed to prove the hyperbolic allegations that Dale Foreman made in his opening arguments.
Nicole Way insisted that she did not know the mail ballot report was inaccurate at the time she produced it, undermining charges that it was “fraudulent” or even “falsified.” And the non-expert testimony of GOP operative Clark Bensen was less than convincing. He examined 11 King County precincts (out of 2600) where there were a handful more — or less — ballots counted than voters credited, and somehow concluded that this was evidence that 875 ballots were stuffed. Whatever.
Apart from Thursday’s Frye hearing on proportional deduction, Rossi’s attorneys have pretty much finished presenting evidence. And that’s basically the sum total of the fraud theory.
As they have since the very first hearing, the R’s continue to cite the Foulkes case as precedent that the election can be set aside without proving that Rossi actually received the most votes. In Foulkes, ballots had been left unsecured, and there was clear evidence that a number of ballots were fraudulently altered as a result. One could argue that King County’s inability to reconcile absentee ballots was equivalent to the unsecured ballots in Foulkes, in that it might have created an opportunity for fraud… specifically, ballot stuffing. But unlike Foulkes, the Republicans have failed to present a single scrap of evidence that fraud — in the form of ballot stuffing — actually did occur.
The only fraud to have been proven thus far at trial, was the fraudulent claim of such in the Republican’s opening argument.
The Republicans think they’re winning the PR case, but if this is all they’ve got, they’re smiling and shooting themselves in the foot. They cried “FRAUD!”—but show us no fraud. They cried “BALLOT STUFFING!”—but show us no ballot stuffing. There’s no smoking gun. There’s no Matlock moment. There’s no Rossi victory.
The Republicans are The Party Who Cried Wolf, and no one is going to believe them anymore.
Said as he ever so slightly twitches and a large bead of sweat runs down his face….
(Spin, spin, spin, we need more spin)
The PR case won’t help them. This will be seen as a multi-million dollar sore-loser effort with no evidence whatsoever.
If people extrapolate (from the PR battle) to see this is how the Rs would run state government, they will quickly see how they’d run our state (multi-millions paid to soothe special interests with no benefit whatsoever). I think “winning” the PR battle will hurt them.
You’re truly desperate, Zap! You’re totally unable to be objective about the situation. David and Thomas got it right. This lawsuit IS an expensive sore-loser effort that will end up hurting the GOP’s image.
The average man-in-the-street doesn’t pay much attention to politics or news. Flashy headlines will momentarily grab his attention, but if the story doesn’t pan out, he’ll shrug and say “whatever” (as in “are you nuts?”) and move on to the next thing (i.e., washing his car, checking his stocks, etc.).
Vance, Rossi & Co. have spewed plenty of flashy headline-grabbing allegations, but none of their stories have panned out. Most folks aren’t even thinking about the election anymore. Three years from now, all this will be forgotten.
It’s like spending millions on ads for a product that will be introduced several years from now, or an election far in the future. Not very smart, and a total waste of money.
But then, why not waste THIS money? After all, it isn’t THEIR money, and — being Republicans — they wouldn’t want it spent on injured workers, would they?
Thomas @3 — please pass your thoughts along to the state Democratic party. If they’re smart, they might be able to convert this GOP publicity stunt (“Logan BAD, Sims BAD, King County BAD, Democrats BAD”) into just the opposite.
I can see that you kool aide drinkers are lulled into a false sense of security as all true libs are, I cannot wait for the day when you get your eye’s opened to what is honestly going on around you. You seem to live a life where all your cohorts lie and you just go on believeing it all. You will get an awakening.
Harley @7,
Was that a prediction, or a threat?
Maybe TODAY is the day the GOP will bring evidence of ballot stuffing. They are going to prove that right? RIGHT? NOT!
And you can bet the Dems are already working on a campaign commercial that goes something like this….
“Does Washington need a government run by crybaby sore losers? The Republican party tried to waste taxpayer money in their effort to steal an elected office they couldn’t win otherwise. They lied about fraud and when push came to shove, they put their tale between their legs and punted!”
I almost said this in response to A Tale of Two Trials, but I think the Republican gambit is a loser. Rossi got the judge he wanted in the county he wanted. If he can’t win at trial, then a lot of people who aren’t members of any political party are going to believe the Republicans were just blowing smoke–just an elaborate version of, “How do you know when a politician is lying?”
If I run the bank and I sign off on erroneous bookkeeping reports; do i escape punishment if i say I was ignorant.
Better yet, are the books magically made right because I said I was ignorant? Did the lost money reappear?
How do you libs think about the laws making it a crime for corp officers to sign off on bad books; making them personally liable for bad information? Is that only for greedy CEOs or should it apply to lazy or crooked politicians and their staff?
righton, Way is one of 4 people under suspension. What’s your point?
I wish I agreed that the public will see there’s no “there” there in the R case. But generally folks only remember the headlines, and attention-grabbing accusations like fraud. They don’t follow a story to see if there’s proof to back up the allegations.
It didn’t dawn on me until after listening to the case Monday and Tuesday that the Rs aren’t interested in proving this case — they’re interested in discrediting the entire elections process because their guy didn’t win. So they’ll tear the admittedly inept King County Elections down to destroy the Ds, no matter that after this particular fight is over we’ll have a public that won’t trust ANYONE to run things, and will be even more suspicious of everything.
As usual, this didn’t occur to me earlier because it’s something Ds wouldn’t do — we back away from tactics that damage the process itself, and try to be fair and grant opponents’ points when legitimate (bomb-throwing partisans aside — I know we have our knee-jerk reactionaries who never admit a fault on our side and always see evil in the other side, but they don’t hold a candle to the scorched-earth Rs on the state or national level; there are a significant minority of Ds who are willing to go along with Rs when they think they’re right — i.e. supported going to Iraq before Bush fucked it up so thoroughly).
I’d like to end with something positive, but I think the Rs have won in the most important venue — public opinion.
Keep spinning. Soon you will get dizzy and puke.
“As usual, this didn’t occur to me earlier because it’s something Ds wouldn’t do – we back away from tactics that damage the process itself, and try to be fair and grant opponents’ points when legitimate (bomb-throwing partisans aside – I know we have our knee-jerk reactionaries who never admit a fault on our side and always see evil in the other side, but they don’t hold a candle to the scorched-earth Rs on the state or national level; there are a significant minority of Ds who are willing to go along with Rs when they think they’re right – i.e. supported going to Iraq before Bush fucked it up so thoroughly).” – Radish
Are you trying to make me laugh? You did a good job of it.
Democrats are at their most devisive when issues of national security arise. They alway side with our enemies in time of war (post 60’s).
Do you know that the first thing Al-Qaeda terorrists are told to do if captured is to allege defamation of Islam? That Newsweek gave legs to their false allegations demonstrates the left bias against our country to the point it borders on treason. Yes, the FBI had heard the same ALLEGATIONS. So what? They hear lots and lots of ALLEGATIONS. If I allege every democrat is a tray-tor (another Goldy censored word- what a beleiver in free speech!), does that make it true? If I tell my allegations to the FBI, does that make it even more true?
Please try using something other than a radish for thinking.
To Harley @ 7:
Kook aide drinker? Flavor of the month saying for the right-wing talk radio set. Nice.
What is going on around us, Harley? Lay it out there so the scales can fall from my eyes and I can see it as clearly as you.
J
Radish @13 – Look, I share your disgust at the cynical ways in which Republicans are willing to trash our democratic process for political gain. But I think the greatest danger for the Republicans is yet to come in this trial. If and when they lose, the Democratic Party needs to do some serious push back to cement in the minds of the voters what the Republicans did. As of right now they have scored a series of cheap shot pulicity stunts, but it can still turn on them.
Easy, there pbj. Is it possible that it is true? Regardless, America’s record on detention at Guantanamo is not exactly stellar. Did you see where it landed us on the AI list yesterday? May not make a difference to you, but the countries that joined us at the bottom of the list are ones Americans used to look at and say, “Goodness, how awful it must be to live in that country.” We don’t hate America, but certainly know that the ideals and values that made this country a beacon for others in terms of justice and freedom are eroding, and eroding quickly. That is sad, because it does not have to be this way.
Nindid, blasting away again “cynical ways in which Republicans are willing to trash our democratic process for political gain”
You mean like Dems requesting and paying for the hand count? A statesman would have said, “for the good of the state, dino should be seated as Gov”.
….waiting for the “yeah, but Rossi then shoudn’t contest it”………(rossi got robbed, if you hadn’t stuffed the ballot box none of this owuld happen
pbj @ 15,
Glad I could lighten your day, at least.
I admit that we have reactionaries on our side, but we also have folks who are willing to cross over when they feel the Rs are in the right. You respond with a flat out lie (Ds always side with the enemy) and follow with a rant on the Newsweek debacle. If this is the level of cognition you’re urging me to rise to, I’ll stick with a radish, thanks.
Nindid @ 17,
I certainly hope it turns on them, and that the Ds manage a good push back.
pbj @ 19: “A statesman would have said, “for the good of the state, dino should be seated as Gov”.”
[snort] a, ha ha ha, ah, HAHA HAAAHAHAA oww, my side hurts.
righton @ 19
the manual recount is PART of the democratic process–it’s written into state law, for heaven’s sake! As is the contest provision, which you continue to seem to think that most commenters are against. Horsefeathers–we all respect his right to contest; we’re just making fun of the lame case he has, that Christopher Adolph is tearing apart like an origami bicycle at this moment.
Comment on 21, 22
Don’t respond, you’re just encouraging him. He gets his rocks off jerking your chain with that claptrap.
Oh, Patrick, I had to respond @ 21. He wasn’t jerking my chain, he was splitting my side.
Torrid @22. Part of process, but COMPLETELY optional/voluntary. Donating an organ is part of the drivers license process, but also is COMPLETELY optional.
You guys “CHOSE” to move this thing to the next level…
David@21,
Please put down the reefer and go look at who wrote @19.
It wasn’t me! Glad you got a giggle along with the munchies though.
Itsasquak @ 22
“You know, what is really sad about all of this is that the ideology of the dems, and quite frankly just about everyone here, is that preserving Gregoire is more important than knowing who actually won, or trying to do anything to resolve the problem.”
That is not a “Dem thing” or even a liberal thing. The legal system is preserving Gregoire’s win. The laws of the state require the GOP to prove that Rossi won the election. This is true regardless of which party claims injury.
“Every single screwup in this election is discounted by everyone from Sims to Goldy as par for the course, but if the shoe was on the other foot and Rossi won the last count, you would be spinning every error as proof the election was stolen.”
Perhaps the Dems would challenge (I’ll exclude myself here because I have been politically unaffiliated for my whole life). The fact of the matter is that most of the errors that occur are ordinary (e.g. felons and dead voters are found in every statewide election that is scrutinized). Most of the errors are minor and constitute a tiny fraction of the ballots cast. Finally, none of the errors have conclusively shown that Rossi really won.
I can imagine errors for which I would gladly see the election conceded to Rossi. For example, suppose we found that a software glitch in King County Accuvote machines registered a Gregoire vote every 16 ballots, regardless of who the voter actually voted for. (Of course they would simply re-run the ballots through after fixing the software, but ignore this possibility for this example).
A simple proportional analysis of the KC vote, in that case, would be completely appropriate. We would know that a random sample of 1 in 16 votes was probabilistically switched to Gregoire. We could easily get an unbiased estimate of the number of votes for each candidate and a confidence interval around that estimate. Almost certainly, Rossi would have won in this hypothetical case, and I think many Dems would accept that finding. (Some would be pissed, but they would accept it).
Likewise, we found documentation that Dean Logan personally communicated with poll workers in many precincts and told them to stuff one or two ballots through the machines with a Gregoire vote, there would be liberal outrage. But, the GOP legal team has not found anything even close to this.
oops! Wrong comment thread! Sorry.
righton @ 25
so how is choosing to avail yourself of the right granted to you, a “trashing of the democratic process?”
And I’m not “you guys.” I am uninvolved.
read nindid..who i quoted
Win or lose, this is one interesting trial.
Given the state politics in Washington, I would have guessed that the Republicans would have been slammed down a long time ago, even though they do have very valid points.
The election was unduly flawed, to a far greater extent than 129 votes, by the direct actions of people working in the King County elections department. The testimony is clear and uniquivocal. Rossi should be in the Governor’s mansion right now and we all know it.
Unfortunately, for this state, the Democratic leadership lacks courage, lacks vision, and is intent on holding onto power in any and every way possible.
pbj @ 26: you are so right. I should have realized it wasn’t you—you’ve got no sense of humor. Thanks for the laugh, righton.
I’m bored. Where’s nindid and Donnageddon when you need em.
Ron Zapporo is a news anchor in Denver. And “Lewis and Floorwax” are the best morning radio show in Denver. And Republicans are living proof of the failure of public education.
Harry, easy on the mushrooms.
Poon – You’re an idiot. It’s Ron Zappolo.
don’t embarass poon boy
And Republicans are living proof of the failure of public education.
Comment by Harry Poon